Hey there - thank you for the subtitles, even though I can understand you just fine. It is always nice, though. Your content is amazing! Loved your recent collaboration with CuriousMarc. Keep up the amazing videos!
Good analysis! The gearbox looks like it contains a worm drive inside in addition to the gears that we see. It would have been interesting to see on the oscilloscope the mechanical bandwidth of the entire device -- how fast it accelerates and moves in response to a step input. 2:20 While the missile is in the launch tube, the wings are folded against the body of the missile. Once the missile is out, a pair of pyrotechnic pushers kick the wings open, and after that the wings stay in the unfolded position shown here. (There is a latch inside.)
Great video as always, awesome that you got the thing working! At first I was surprised by the relatively modest position control bandwidth, but considering the size and purpose of the tornado missile it actually makes sense.
It's amazing that stepper motors have the torque and speed to achieve this - It hit home to me how damn fast these things actually go when he pointed out the paint and metal was discolored from aerodynamic heating.. brief research suggests about Mach 4 - faster than a rifle bullet :O for those trying to visualize what the vane's actually actually steering, they weigh around 1000kg and range of 150km, so it would have a flight time of about 2 minutes to steer it onto a target.
Very interesting. The electronics is too strong as it stands the explosion and the Post handling. Still it would be interesting to see ...4.. seconds clear still pictures, where we can see all the texts in the chips and other components with their types & manufacturing weeks & manufacture labels. But very much thanks even like this.
I didn't expect it to be quite so quick though in hindsight I probably should have considering it's use case. Very interesting as usual. Thanks for the content.
@@GlutenEruption These MLRS missiles are long and slender. This limits how fast the controls can operate without causing the whole missile to bow excessively in flight.
@ yeah, totally fair, and obviously it's plenty fast enough, just imagined it being faster for the maneuvering requirements of a short range interceptor.
Hello, super travail comme toujours, dommage que cette super techno soit employée sur des armes plutôt que pour améliorer la vie des terriens.... Bonnes fêtes de fin d'année.
Good Morning Michel, as per usual, a very interesting Video! Something im curious about would beif you can tell what material the tip of the Controlsurface is made from. The bulbous tip seems to be bolted on to the titanium fin as a counterweight, since this is for preventing control surface fluttering at very high speeds its very likely a large part of the mass of this control surface. Can you tell if it is Steel, Les, Tungsten or maybe even something more exotic?
Hello, rookie here. Could someone please explain why analog control is used here? It seems that the rocket system ia relative new around 2014, why not use a microcontroller to acheive this servo control?
As we say in France « pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué? ». What can be the advantage to use a microcontroller ? Risk of failure is much more important. As in nuclear power plant for example, programmable devices are generally prohibited, analog control is common.
I would not be surprised if nobody in Russia even remembered who and how developed this particular board. It was probably some student, moonlighting for a sub sub contractor who got a tiny slice of the development contract. And the main expertise of this sub sub contractor might have been in designing gearboxes or something like that. That's how this board layout, which we see here, got though the design review. And after everything was debugged and sold as a finished actuator, nobody really cares whether it was the best possible solution. It is not like there is one person who understands the entire missile and chooses the most sensible approach for every facet. Instead it is thousands of different firms, each responsible for some small part, all shrouded with too much secrecy.
@@cogoid I'd really love some background info about how they design this kind of stuff. This "somewhat less competent" approach to PCB design surprised me quite a bit after watching many teardowns and reverse engineering videos about all kinds of soviet/ru aviation and mil equipment. I have seen a few things that could be done in a better way, but never this kind of "student who has no clue, no motivation, no experience bodges his way through until the thing somehow works and then a superior doesn't give a sh... and signs off on it without having a closer look" - thing. I mean, placing the passive components of an analog filter so far away from the active part is ridiculous, that's just asking for trouble. I was honestly thinking what could be a sound reason for doing it this way on purpose. Making reverse engineering a bit harder? Using the stray inductance of the long traces in the circuit? Maybe it works better if the circuit oscillates a little bit?
@@tpa6120a2dwp It was simply designed by somebody who was not experienced. There were many, many, layers of managers above that person, but at the end of the line it was a low paid (a few hundred dollars a month), most likely recently hired and not adequately supervised person. Could have literally been an intern or somebody just hired to do the layout. From the numbers on the board it was designed by some organization other than the main contractor for the guidance system. And the contractor doing the guidance system reports to the firm responsible for the design of the missile overall, which reports to the designer of the missile system as a whole. And most of these organizations are in different towns. So it is a pretty slow communication. They likely started to tinker with this design in the early 2000s. The first prototype of the guidance system was shown at an exhibition in 2009. The order for the first series production of the missile was signed in 2013. And the first batch of 200 missiles was delivered in 2015 at a cost of about $400K per each.
Russia is a mix of ancient soviet tech currently made in Belarus("Integral") and Western/Chinese chip and put together by western tech on western software .
10:13 - I wonder if Ken Shirriff or anyone else doing decapping/analysis of chips would be interested to take a look at those Russian made opamps / other ICs .. Is it really all Russian made or maybe it's just Russian packaged foreign silicon?
There are plenty of videos from Russian microelectronics factories. They look very similar to older Intel factories, and use practically the same equipment. Definitely capable of producing OpAmps and small logic chips in any numbers needed for the missiles. A small factory without any automation at all makes one million chips a year at $30/chip.
@@cogoid not arguing they cannot make those. But given Russia's corruption problems I'd be curious to check if they're not buying bare dies, packaging and pocketing the difference.
@@Jerry_from_analytics The chips for the missiles are (somewhat) radiation hardened, and each is hand-made and individually very manually tested after being made. Such products are very expensive anywhere in the world. Although it is fashionable to talk about corruption in Russia and China, in reality both counties probably suffer at least as much from the draconian anti-corruption measures as from the corruption itself. The situation is much more complicated than the popular version makes it out to be.
Вы пишите чушь. СССР, а сейчас и РФ выпускают для военной техники ПЛИС, микроконтроллеры и процесорные наборы. Этого достаточно, чтобы сделать технику которая может управлять от атомной станции до ракеты. Но если вы посмотрите украинскую или европейскую пропаганду, то да чипы они берут из микроволновок😂
As usual you have made a very interesting video at a very high quality! Thank you for this! P.S. when will you have enough parts to build your own Russian rocket? ;-)
@@kurtprosvet7533agreed. Most military equipment use proven, reliable, old stuff. high tech, if any, is to be found in the guiding part. High speed processing (image processing for the most sophisticated ones) Here, for the aileron control, 30 years old op amps are good enough. 😊
Can they send the whole missile to you for full review and reverse engineering? I mean they have tons of them in nearly perfect shape because in most cases Russians use Tornado-S with cluster munition. So after release of sub munitions the missile is inert and keeps almost unharmed after landing. Looks like they massively disassemble and sell them by pieces. What a waste of cool toys!
Your audio quality is atrocious, you need a better audio setup. It's picking up every other noise better than your voice (and your accent isn't helping either)
Нашему иностранному разборщику все не так - теперь понимаешь трассировка и расположение элементов на печатной плате не правильное. Видать Пикад ломаный у этих русских. Одно радует чипы не из унитазов и холодильников.
Hey there - thank you for the subtitles, even though I can understand you just fine. It is always nice, though. Your content is amazing! Loved your recent collaboration with CuriousMarc. Keep up the amazing videos!
I am very disappointed that the "meow" wasn't in the subtitles.
This error is corrected !
Thank you very much for explanation, motion control of this wing is based on PWM as like the traditional RC models !
Good analysis! The gearbox looks like it contains a worm drive inside in addition to the gears that we see. It would have been interesting to see on the oscilloscope the mechanical bandwidth of the entire device -- how fast it accelerates and moves in response to a step input.
2:20 While the missile is in the launch tube, the wings are folded against the body of the missile. Once the missile is out, a pair of pyrotechnic pushers kick the wings open, and after that the wings stay in the unfolded position shown here. (There is a latch inside.)
I was wondering why it was able to hinge around the missile axis! Thanks for that input, makes a lot of sense.
Was wondering how the fin folding arrangement worked, thanks!
Great video as always, awesome that you got the thing working! At first I was surprised by the relatively modest position control bandwidth, but considering the size and purpose of the tornado missile it actually makes sense.
Узнаю чипы из своей стиральной машинки 😂
I heard a cat meow. Show the cat🐈
2,43 meow
Second that!
Third
Amazing work as always!
Суровая советская серво машинка!))
Great job!
Thanks for interesting content.
It's amazing that stepper motors have the torque and speed to achieve this - It hit home to me how damn fast these things actually go when he pointed out the paint and metal was discolored from aerodynamic heating.. brief research suggests about Mach 4 - faster than a rifle bullet :O for those trying to visualize what the vane's actually actually steering, they weigh around 1000kg and range of 150km, so it would have a flight time of about 2 minutes to steer it onto a target.
Wow, pretty cool.
Первым буду ! Спасибо за видео !
Very good!
Вітаю!))) Раді бачити і чути,дякуємо за черговий цікавий артефакт!!!
Very interesting. The electronics is too strong as it stands the explosion and the Post handling. Still it would be interesting to see ...4.. seconds clear still pictures, where we can see all the texts in the chips and other components with their types & manufacturing weeks & manufacture labels. But very much thanks even like this.
You can see clear pictures of the board in the last page of the schematics. Link is on the description.
If it's a cluster bombs missile, the main body does not explode, it just falls to the ground after releasing the payload.
@@lelabodemichel5162Thank You very much. Now I know that. If my eyes saw correctly, one microchip capsule was labelled 2439 i.e. 2024 week 39 !?
@@ivekuukkeli2156 Correct
Gute Arbeit Danke
Awesome! Merry Christmas to you!
10:02 - always thought this kind of equipment had aura of next level engineering. It's nice to see it uncovered! 😬
Thank you very much for your explanations. any idea about the "crazy" routing?
2:43 I can hear your supervisor offering his thoughts on the matter
I didn't expect it to be quite so quick though in hindsight I probably should have considering it's use case. Very interesting as usual. Thanks for the content.
Interesting, I thought it would actually be quicker specifically because of its use case.
@@GlutenEruption These MLRS missiles are long and slender. This limits how fast the controls can operate without causing the whole missile to bow excessively in flight.
@ yeah, totally fair, and obviously it's plenty fast enough, just imagined it being faster for the maneuvering requirements of a short range interceptor.
@@GlutenEruption This is a ground to ground missile -- very similar to HIMARS, but longer range and much heavier warhead.
Hello, super travail comme toujours, dommage que cette super techno soit employée sur des armes plutôt que pour améliorer la vie des terriens.... Bonnes fêtes de fin d'année.
Good Morning Michel,
as per usual, a very interesting Video!
Something im curious about would beif you can tell what material the tip of the Controlsurface is made from. The bulbous tip seems to be bolted on to the titanium fin as a counterweight, since this is for preventing control surface fluttering at very high speeds its very likely a large part of the mass of this control surface.
Can you tell if it is Steel, Les, Tungsten or maybe even something more exotic?
у меня есть дома такие сервомоторы серии ДПР. не знал что они в ракетах применяются. я использовал их в самоделках
amazing content, really.
Hello, rookie here. Could someone please explain why analog control is used here? It seems that the rocket system ia relative new around 2014, why not use a microcontroller to acheive this servo control?
As we say in France « pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué? ». What can be the advantage to use a microcontroller ? Risk of failure is much more important. As in nuclear power plant for example, programmable devices are generally prohibited, analog control is common.
I would not be surprised if nobody in Russia even remembered who and how developed this particular board. It was probably some student, moonlighting for a sub sub contractor who got a tiny slice of the development contract. And the main expertise of this sub sub contractor might have been in designing gearboxes or something like that. That's how this board layout, which we see here, got though the design review.
And after everything was debugged and sold as a finished actuator, nobody really cares whether it was the best possible solution. It is not like there is one person who understands the entire missile and chooses the most sensible approach for every facet. Instead it is thousands of different firms, each responsible for some small part, all shrouded with too much secrecy.
@@cogoid I'd really love some background info about how they design this kind of stuff. This "somewhat less competent" approach to PCB design surprised me quite a bit after watching many teardowns and reverse engineering videos about all kinds of soviet/ru aviation and mil equipment. I have seen a few things that could be done in a better way, but never this kind of "student who has no clue, no motivation, no experience bodges his way through until the thing somehow works and then a superior doesn't give a sh... and signs off on it without having a closer look" - thing. I mean, placing the passive components of an analog filter so far away from the active part is ridiculous, that's just asking for trouble. I was honestly thinking what could be a sound reason for doing it this way on purpose. Making reverse engineering a bit harder? Using the stray inductance of the long traces in the circuit? Maybe it works better if the circuit oscillates a little bit?
@@tpa6120a2dwp It was simply designed by somebody who was not experienced. There were many, many, layers of managers above that person, but at the end of the line it was a low paid (a few hundred dollars a month), most likely recently hired and not adequately supervised person. Could have literally been an intern or somebody just hired to do the layout.
From the numbers on the board it was designed by some organization other than the main contractor for the guidance system. And the contractor doing the guidance system reports to the firm responsible for the design of the missile overall, which reports to the designer of the missile system as a whole. And most of these organizations are in different towns. So it is a pretty slow communication. They likely started to tinker with this design in the early 2000s. The first prototype of the guidance system was shown at an exhibition in 2009. The order for the first series production of the missile was signed in 2013. And the first batch of 200 missiles was delivered in 2015 at a cost of about $400K per each.
Where do you get all these parts ? , I love the motor mechanism
Russia is a mix of ancient soviet tech currently made in Belarus("Integral") and Western/Chinese chip and put together by western tech on western software .
Not much software here though
@@rkan2 What do you think they use to design a layout ? pen and paper?
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
@@koskok2965 Well its far from russian superpower claims they like to boast about.
@@dukenukem8381 Judging by the routing like Michel pointed out, I wouldn't be surprised. :D
10:13 - I wonder if Ken Shirriff or anyone else doing decapping/analysis of chips would be interested to take a look at those Russian made opamps / other ICs .. Is it really all Russian made or maybe it's just Russian packaged foreign silicon?
There are plenty of videos from Russian microelectronics factories. They look very similar to older Intel factories, and use practically the same equipment. Definitely capable of producing OpAmps and small logic chips in any numbers needed for the missiles. A small factory without any automation at all makes one million chips a year at $30/chip.
@@cogoid not arguing they cannot make those. But given Russia's corruption problems I'd be curious to check if they're not buying bare dies, packaging and pocketing the difference.
@@Jerry_from_analytics The chips for the missiles are (somewhat) radiation hardened, and each is hand-made and individually very manually tested after being made. Such products are very expensive anywhere in the world.
Although it is fashionable to talk about corruption in Russia and China, in reality both counties probably suffer at least as much from the draconian anti-corruption measures as from the corruption itself. The situation is much more complicated than the popular version makes it out to be.
Вы пишите чушь. СССР, а сейчас и РФ выпускают для военной техники ПЛИС, микроконтроллеры и процесорные наборы. Этого достаточно, чтобы сделать технику которая может управлять от атомной станции до ракеты. Но если вы посмотрите украинскую или европейскую пропаганду, то да чипы они берут из микроволновок😂
As usual you have made a very interesting video at a very high quality! Thank you for this! P.S. when will you have enough parts to build your own Russian rocket? ;-)
Looks like weird engineering to compensate for shitty parts. Quite powerful, though. The aerodynamic forces in the vane are no joke.
Is so called "9M542" missle ? Merci / Дякую!
Joyeux Noël !
sa others have statesd, I'm tryna see that things max acceleration - I'd assume it has an insane reaction time.
Are these the washing machine chips?
No. Soviet era op amps.
@@chefchaudard3580 качественные и надёжные вещи, в Джавелинах тоже проверенная временем комплектуха.
Заблуждаетесь. ОУ и транзисторы стоят сравнительно свежие. Видимо вас путает преемственность маркировки активных элементов из СССР в РФ.
@@kurtprosvet7533agreed. Most military equipment use proven, reliable, old stuff.
high tech, if any, is to be found in the guiding part. High speed processing (image processing for the most sophisticated ones)
Here, for the aileron control, 30 years old op amps are good enough. 😊
merry christmass
Wow!
Now I know what a missile will sound like as it's steering itself towards me. 😅
Best 🎅🎅 toys
Hopefully soon a UAV!
let's assemble a fully working tornado s from the table😄😄😄
Can't see Western chips. Wasn't it claimed that Russia has no semiconductor industry and takes chips from washing machines and other appliances?
Can they send the whole missile to you for full review and reverse engineering? I mean they have tons of them in nearly perfect shape because in most cases Russians use Tornado-S with cluster munition. So after release of sub munitions the missile is inert and keeps almost unharmed after landing. Looks like they massively disassemble and sell them by pieces. What a waste of cool toys!
It is already complicated to export a simple board, so a complete missile…
Maybe if Michel moves to a neighbouring country... 😅
Россия делает хорошее и правильное оружие ))
ты донатишь всу? лучше бы помогал тису переплыть хлопцам.
cos that pot is precious!
Америка поставляет комплектующие России !
Military missile parts for sale. Used, but good. 😂😂😂
You could gear it up a little and turn it into a ridiculous clock 😂😂
Your audio quality is atrocious, you need a better audio setup.
It's picking up every other noise better than your voice (and your accent isn't helping either)
Нашему иностранному разборщику все не так - теперь понимаешь трассировка и расположение элементов на печатной плате не правильное. Видать Пикад ломаный у этих русских. Одно радует чипы не из унитазов и холодильников.
Great job!