This is a really interesting and compelling point and definitely something that we discuss regularly. Really enjoyed this video and I'll share it with the team when we next talk about these kinds of things. Thanks!
I'd like to say that desire to not play weak classes/specs is also driven by the exact opposite reasons Pants discussed as well. It's not just about a desire to play something powerful, it's about wanting to contribute. This is a multiplayer coop game. If a person plays a perceived weak class, whether that perception is accurate or not, then they are seen a dragging down the group. Most players don't want to be on either end of that scenario, leaching or being leached.
As a boomkin I really drank the SoD coolaid, but this patch has made me completely disillusioned with this experiment for the same reasons described in the video
Sorry to bother you here, but can you take a look at Incursions? They layering seems totally messed up, im on Lone Wolf EU. And its mostly 50/50 server pop but incursions are 99% alliance and 1% horde on all layers. I think something went wrong with layering, atm its unplayable for horde
@trailerparkboysbestshow3327 Working as intended i guess, week one horde camped alliance, and alliance went to dungeon farm. Horde got to 50 and left, and now alliance is doing alts and controlling the place.
the main thing that currently makes shadow unappealing to me is the gearing aspect and the fact that we scale with nothing but spell power... Its super disheartening to play a game centered around getting loot from bosses when I know that I could to just as much, or even MORE damage with shadow power greens from the auction house. The class just doesn't have anything to really look forward to - you going to have roughly the same DPS in week 1-2 than week 12 and the only thing that gives you upgrades are 7g elixirs that you farm hours and hours for -.-
I must disagree here, at least partly. I actually like the fact, that SPriest scales with Spellpower, and spellpower (almost) only. That sets SPriest and Gearing them off to other casters. Otherwise we would have 3 cloth classes all rolling on exactly the same items, if they scaled on the same attributes. But here comes the thing: why not provide gear in raids to fullfill that? E.g. raw spellpower for Spriest, hit for Locks, crit for mages as the primary priority for each class and create Raidgear around that idea. But as is right now - and i completely agree on that part - it is super frustrating to run with green no-stats-item just +SP from start to finish. why even raid at that point. I liked the idea of Roar of dreams, which has better uptime for classes that do many quick spells instead of 3sec cast time spells. In this case it would just need a bit higher activation rate to really make it a gamechanger item. But I will give credit where credit is due. Also im not a fan of the shadow-zoo but thats just my taste i guess :D
@@GaiusUltima Agree and also in particular about the "shadow-zoo" als you appropriately called it. I don't like pet classes and having to babysit my pet, so while shadow fiend never bothered me since it's only there for a short time, getting more and more of those pets is starting to irritate me. Though I was growing to like the eye since it was fun sending it in to melee, that kinda cute little guy, but then they nerfed that too. So... yeah. Hope there are no more pets for us with the lvl 60 update down the line.
@felixkrell890 And on top of that they gave us runes that benefit from crits... Allowing dots to crit is nice but with 6% crit it is basically irrelevant...
I literally said this the other night. Raid utility means nothing when fights last 1 minute and just become a zerg fest. I am in a guild of half decent parsers, and will always have a raid spot - but not being able to at least be somewhat competetive on the DPS meter as a damage dealer is insanely demotivating. If they don't fix or redo scaling on casters, we're in for a Season of Brown on the DPS meters from here on out. Warriors and by a lesser extent, other melee classes, will continue to scale out of this world. I hope this video gets some traction and puts into perspective the scaling issues for casters vs melee.
Someone linked me this Video and i wanted to share some insight as a long time player and since i play Shadow Priest on high end Guild. I have to agree that utility means nothing when it can be replaced or is not needed. Here are some examples of our issues in current raid environment. Homonculi - we replace this ability already with rogue improved expose armor because it provides more armor reduction which results in more dps for our melee and is more easily managed and applied since homonculi cannot be controlled and die too easily, the other debuffs like attack power reduction and attack speed reduction are replaced by our tank. Shared pain - this is mediocre ability overall and is only used in very very few scenarios. Eye of the void - only head rune to be used since it gives better damage increasing curses than what warlocks currently have but the damage of the pet is quite low and bosses and mobs have chance to resist the curse which cannot be reapplied because it has 3 minute cooldown. Pain and suffering - Just bad design. does not provide anything meaningful for us, basically just re applies pain on mind blast cast which we can already just do ourselfs because we have room in the rotation. Despair - i like the idea that our dots and mind flay can crit but we don't use mind flay because it does less than half the damage of mind spike in that cast window, the other thing is we have so low crit chance that even void zone will in some cases be better. also Devouring plague cannot crit which i hope is an oversight to this rune. Our 2 chest runes, Void plague and Twisted faith, these shouldn't even share the same slot because we will only use void plague from now on unless the boss or mob is immune to diseases. I personally hope they change these slots and remove any immunities bosses have against Void plague or just change it to be magic debuff instead of disease. Only issue i have with Mind Sear and SW:D is that Mind Sear cannot target a friendly player so instead you have to target the enemy and it doesnt do damage to the target you are casting the ability on, SW:D damage feedback is too much in my personal opinion and it should be more like 25% instead of 50%. Other issues we have is that we don't really even need shadow weaving in raid because our warlocks are not playing Affliction because it does less damage than Destruction.
We aren't a pet class. It's not good design, let us do damage. Make melee stack their own armor pen. All we do is buff melee that already double our damage. It's a fucking joke.
Exactly.. I would be so into .. let shadow priest be channeler class, like mind flay boosted dmg.. not just spamm caster.. but channelers.. so that our spells would be channelled over time and stronger over time.. that sounds more interesting than what we get :( fast casters .. with no dmg
- make SW:Death baseline - move Twisted Faith rune from chest to gloves to take sw:d’s place, have it also buff mind spike - mind flay targets take 6-8% increased magical damage
One thing that is really wrong about WCLogs is that all damage done by players benefiting from your buffs or debuffs should be YOUR damage on the logs, not theirs. Because if you're not there, that damage isn't either. And currently that reality does not appear on the dps logs. Also i really disagree with the philosophy that "SoD is for beer chugging gamer dads" when in fact it's really not; most of my guild is made of pretty young people, mostly under 35. Having easier content for level-up raids is fine, but at endgame there needs to be a mix of easy raids, and actual challenges. It's ok if not everyone succeeds at every content the minute they come into contact with it. Overcoming a challenge is the best feeling video games can provide and SoD needs more of it.
One thing I think That was problematic ever since p1 is how the chest rune holds both Void plague and Twisted faith. Twisted faith shouldve been a leg rune, allowing us to drop from the supportive nature of Homunculi to focus more on single target damage. You only need 1 homunculi user in your raid and since Prayer of mending does not stack, and also because eventually the raid is just too easy, other priest in your raid will opt for going homunculi. This is also true for case where you would have 2 shadow priest. Homunculi become pretty much useless to a shadow priest as soon as there is more than 1 user, The damage from isnt good enough to justify the rune without the debuff. How about swapping Twisted faith and Prayer of mending maybe? That would be an easy buff to Shadow priest damage and the chest runebeing the least important currently for priest healer would have a more interesting option while still having something on their leg that would be usable.
In an alliance raid context, i'm finding it's very sensible to bring 1-2 shadow priests. this not so much heavily because of how feral-locked melee dps are. Generally you are only bringing 2 feral to a raid for 2 melee groups, a caster group, and a healer group of 4 that often has a caster or hunter filling the 5th slot (since they wouldn't have a feral in the healer group, and ranged hunters like to be in the melee groups so the melee can get trueshot buffs to parse higher easier) this leaves, generally room for 6 casters, which personally, i think makes sense if there are 2 mages (so they can buff fire and frost each) 3 warlocks/shadows (at least 1 shadow, to cover elements/shadows/reck, possibly prefer at least 2 shadow so you have more consistent homonculus debuffs on bosses) and a moonkin. (optionally, but the party aura, BR, innervate, and FF really swing the pendulum to them after all the other caster's support has run dry if over-stacked) and more importantly, that warlock can be a tank warlock, allowing one of the melee to play dps, which will probably increase their damage more than it will hinder the warlock's dps, while giving shadow healing to a warlock tank, allowing healers to flex more dps runes also. - or if you have only 2 mages total, or arcane healer can flex to be the 2nd full dps mage. so there isn't really any caster classes, that aren't being invited to a raid... (from what i can see on alliance) - who knows though, maybe meta raid comps later in the phase will cut the "caster group" entirely, in favor of 3 melee groups, and a 3 healer-2 caster group. (in which case, warlock tank and shadow priest with 3 healers would probably be best for that group)
Whats up Pantsface! Great video and yes I agree with you. You made a solid point when you quoted aggrends tweet. I dont see SPR ever being #1 dps and #1 heals in SoD. I love spr like you - ALL DWARF WOTLK here. IRONFORGED FTW!
I have leveled 6 different shadow priests to max level since the OG vanilla , where at 10/11 yrs old i decided that dwarf shadow priest was by far the best race/class combo from all available class/race combos, by checking the oldschool wow website which had a spell breakdown for every racial/class spell u get their dmg mana cost level u get it etc. I am about to level my 7th in sod for this phase( i am a warrior main nowadays but warrior in sod is legit just classic warr again, so let the shadow priest addiction roll!) - PS. Already know ur an OG shadow priest because of miks scrolling battle text... we gotta do that dont we :P
im very grateful that the devs are actively working on a solution - it sucks that half the time when I bring this up people try to snuff out the conversation on the basis that spriest is good for pvp and therefore deserves to be punished. Part of the issue is that we have no burst-cleave without swapping runes off from crucial single target runes. Bursting trash with swp tab feels terrible, and killing bosses without despair and swd feels terrible - so swapping 2 runes 2x between bosses is mandatory - maybe converting some of these into passive talent books would help - alternatively void zone and mind sear can stay reserved for large scale sustained AOE niche situations if the mind flay reworks allow us to do some amount of cleave or relevant single target on trash packs
I understand this sucks but I get around it using Itemrack. If you have 2 pairs of wrists/gloves you can swap your runes with a keybind and have a single target set and an aoe set. It's an imperfect solution at best, but makes for easy swapping between trash and boss runes
@@Pants_Gaming I could live with carrying the extra gear (although im not overly fond of needing 2x bis and enchants) the issue for me is I prefer to use [@mouseover] priority and auto targeting macros so not only am I changing runes im also constantly rearranging my action bars throughout the raid - to my knowledge there is no way to automate rearranging skills/macros in your action bar - toggle action bar is not an option as I am already utilizing all 10 available bars best case we have to wait out our cds and hardcast voidzone while basically everyone else can effectively keep moving seamlessly - dont get me wrong I enjoy playing with different runes for different raid comps and boss strategies there are numerous approaches they could take to address this - another thought is what if void zone could last longer or provide its own shadow debuff to make it a single target/aoe hybrid similar to living flame
for my configuration I may be forced to use multiple keybinds for skills of the same rune slot in order to not go crazy but that has its own major drawbacks
They should just add multiple raid difficulties (and better itemized PvP gear so top tier raiders don’t dominate in PvP). Doesn’t necessarily have to be a separate mode like heroic. Do something like Ulduar hardnode where you interact with something in the raid to increase difficulty. These raids are such Zerg fests, balancing around them will never work and will further destroy PvP. Shadow priests just got a 10% dmg increase despite being the strongest class in PvP just because they can’t compete in st
Half buttons I press are not for dmg. Feels meh. I thought they would add vampiric touch with decent cast time. There is just no good runes contesting the simp ones (homunculi, eye of the void, nerfed swd), even newly added rune allowing dot crits is meh because of such low crit% values.
hey Pants! Long time Mage main here and re-rolled Shadow for SoD to switch things up. I couldn’t agree more on this video and your take on the state of Spriest rn. I’m enjoying as an avid PvPer but stepping raids, doing my prep, full consumes, pre-bis gear and just not being able to compete on meters is frustrating. i know i signed up for a “utility” class but the potential for spriest is there i def think everyone can see that. What’s your opinion on gearing for us this phase? How accurate is Wowhead and Zockify. Seems like a lot of our BiS is staying green shadow items and then completely skipping tier items, etc.
yo, I haven't put a ton of research into it but this is what I see as BiS. Will be making a video about it soon once I dive into it a bit more wowsims.github.io/sod/shadow_priest/#eJzjEuBgEmAyYLRgLGBqYNKYwMToxNbAxHiBkVGIQeorKxdbQE5iZWqRALuEkQKr1nRGLi6BjiCDo3wah+dIcrEInN/Ny8UpsMffYB+fxFxLIPNjvsEuPol2di5ugY49vBIL2DW+/JQEcnpmMkrc5tPYtkaKi0Pg2DJGjcVHJICsG+d5NZaDxdr38Gq8PyUBVNoJ1HeFTePcL5AFV4AWsAhMOgQiHzeByN8HQOSdqyByG1j20xxGI24Bbg/mAMYKvg5GZqs2Fq4HTAyjgKZAaAHjQDuBEHjFxODE7sAYwDiBkdFLSFfX1MDIyMjAxMDAyNTA0MjUMIAlgjuJIYtJgrHgBGNFyixGhk+MTFIMSoeYOSEG+DkIQhgiDpKzZoLASXtLiMgFe8U0MLhmbzSJmWPlal4hDp/UstQcBRMDCS0Fdq1BlgI/NDpQxRyuBRSZc4RH0JEq7gACQzDp0O9gmZn/ofVkyFV7mNEOEYwAwFtjRg==
I just cannot agree with you more .. I mean. .I heal party hurrayy.. but .. I do no dmg.. in the end .. all raids in SOD are about DPS.. as lategame is pure zerg boss..
So a few comments from the "average dad guild" although none of us have kids and we're in our mid 20s. We still stack shadow priests when pugging because btw the average player will still take a ton of needless damage and die. Shadow priests help because even in these easy raids they offset bad healers and bad Dps quite a bit. The damage is "low" relative to wcl parsing standards but you didn't even consider showing what the actual damage differential is for shadow compared to other classes. Wcl has really messed up people's perceptions because although a class like warrior can do more damage than a shadow priest there's a ton of caveats I just do not need to worry about if I pug a shadow. They don't need to be in a feral group, they don't need hummunc, they don't need to move (generally) and they fucking heal. If the difference for all of that, is an inconsequential 300dps then why do I care as a casual trying to clear the raid?
it's way more than 300. And the pug meta is suboptimal by nature, which leads you to wanting to play safe vs anything else. This also means you'll generally be picking up bad players since most decent players run with a guild/organized group. The requirements for a class to be better than others shouldn't be "we have bad players who aren't dodging mechanics"
I just have two random ideas for shadow priests, not really about your video topic. 1. Make mindflay relevant. Its iconic, let us melt faces. After mind blast crit, increase the range of mind flay by 10 or whatever yards to be equivalent to other spells and also be increased cast speed 100% to 1.5 seconds. Another option is give it the drain life dot treatment that warlocks have. Throw a 3 second mindflay dot after mind blast crits. Can also add a debuff after completing 3 ticks of mindflay as another option. 2. Spirit tap talent. Make inner fire give spell power and spirit conversion to SP or even crit idk. Basically a spirit tap proc during fights that gives us a power boost not just mana regen. Spirit tap becomes useless for encounters and only good for trash or leveling. Blackout is also a useless talent for encounters typically. Make one of these talents have more value through a rune or book. Send this suggestion to aggrend my fellow shadow priest enjoyer
From a non shadow priest point of view : They should change the vampiric embrace to heal 5 persons in the RAID who have the lowest HP The hps you bring is fantastic, but there is too much overhealing wasted by that They should give you the control of your Homonculus pets ffs, wtf is that, like a pet attack pet follow Void form man, this should be a thing in SOD since you have no burst button, it would be so much fun
Dev got no grasp of the reason people roll DPS. you here have a class with 2 healing spec and 1 dps spec and you're making the dps a support rather than fleshing one of the 2 healing spec into that. Disc wouldve been the perfect spec to provide support while doing some damage and not being a DPS spec. Druid Got that with the wrath spec. Where is our smite Spec? shadow shouldnt be replacing it.
With the mindset of SoD players always crying for brain dead easy contents I’d rather not bother playing it and just wait for Cata. This is clearly not gonna ever be a version of the game that satisfies players who enjoy prog. ST prenerf was an anomaly and I don’t think they’ll ever repeat such a thing in the future of SoD.
I agree, im a top 10 SP atm in sod, i love playing it but the dmg is just tooo low in pve content. I dont really understand how its this op in pvp but so bad compared in pve.
Pretty simple. It is OP because players don know how to dispell and/or heal a person. And in the minds of most players dispersion hast a 10sec CD with 5 sec uptime, a movement buff, selfheal and reapplication of dot all at the same time. At least kind of.
ive done 2 runs of sunken temple so far and i was the highest damage dealer in both of them i dont trust or believe other peoples notions about how strong or weak classes are. i think what matters most is the person behind the keyboard who is playing the class. and i strive to be the best at any spec i play in wow no matter what. i will always find a way to do more damage
Shadow starts off relatively strong because they don’t scale well, meaning they have full power early on but get worse and worse compared to other classes as phases go on. If you’re topping meters then you play with bad players, not trying to be a dick that’s just the truth
@@Pants_Gaming "you play with bad players". ive heard that phrase so many times over my years of playing wow. every time i bring up how much damage im capable of doing, someone throws that phrase at me. nobody ever wants to ever admit or acknowledge that maybe im actually really good at the game and put in alot of effort to be good at the game
This is what boss damage looks like when you play with people of the same skill. People say you play with bad players because you don't seem to understand the difference between good and bad players vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fAjQ8MLgnrXC2Td1#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2
@@Pants_Gaming i dont judge people and categorize them as "good" or 'bad". i have no control over how other people play the game. the only person i have control over is myself and i push myself and my character to the absolute limit every chance i get and do the most damage possible
We really going to talk about raid utility when fights are 1 min or less? We really going to ignore the fact that shamans are over performing against every class by a milestone in the game because the people who designed SOD are very bias to only classes they play? Shadow priests are absolute dog water on the meters because our gear itemization in greens have better stat weights then tier pieces. Then you look at shamans its almost like they took into account what exactly they needed and accommodated that class perfectly.
isnt priest kinda a support class tho? im not surprised their in this situation and it feels weird priests are so upset their raid dps is so low. Kinda just the brainrot that damage meters and the ego/bragging rights its given to players have caused
This is a really interesting and compelling point and definitely something that we discuss regularly. Really enjoyed this video and I'll share it with the team when we next talk about these kinds of things. Thanks!
Appreciate the response!
I'd like to say that desire to not play weak classes/specs is also driven by the exact opposite reasons Pants discussed as well. It's not just about a desire to play something powerful, it's about wanting to contribute. This is a multiplayer coop game. If a person plays a perceived weak class, whether that perception is accurate or not, then they are seen a dragging down the group. Most players don't want to be on either end of that scenario, leaching or being leached.
As a boomkin I really drank the SoD coolaid, but this patch has made me completely disillusioned with this experiment for the same reasons described in the video
Sorry to bother you here, but can you take a look at Incursions? They layering seems totally messed up, im on Lone Wolf EU. And its mostly 50/50 server pop but incursions are 99% alliance and 1% horde on all layers. I think something went wrong with layering, atm its unplayable for horde
@trailerparkboysbestshow3327 Working as intended i guess, week one horde camped alliance, and alliance went to dungeon farm. Horde got to 50 and left, and now alliance is doing alts and controlling the place.
the main thing that currently makes shadow unappealing to me is the gearing aspect and the fact that we scale with nothing but spell power... Its super disheartening to play a game centered around getting loot from bosses when I know that I could to just as much, or even MORE damage with shadow power greens from the auction house. The class just doesn't have anything to really look forward to - you going to have roughly the same DPS in week 1-2 than week 12 and the only thing that gives you upgrades are 7g elixirs that you farm hours and hours for -.-
That's a great point. I agree.
I must disagree here, at least partly. I actually like the fact, that SPriest scales with Spellpower, and spellpower (almost) only. That sets SPriest and Gearing them off to other casters. Otherwise we would have 3 cloth classes all rolling on exactly the same items, if they scaled on the same attributes. But here comes the thing: why not provide gear in raids to fullfill that? E.g. raw spellpower for Spriest, hit for Locks, crit for mages as the primary priority for each class and create Raidgear around that idea.
But as is right now - and i completely agree on that part - it is super frustrating to run with green no-stats-item just +SP from start to finish. why even raid at that point.
I liked the idea of Roar of dreams, which has better uptime for classes that do many quick spells instead of 3sec cast time spells. In this case it would just need a bit higher activation rate to really make it a gamechanger item. But I will give credit where credit is due.
Also im not a fan of the shadow-zoo but thats just my taste i guess :D
@@GaiusUltima Agree and also in particular about the "shadow-zoo" als you appropriately called it. I don't like pet classes and having to babysit my pet, so while shadow fiend never bothered me since it's only there for a short time, getting more and more of those pets is starting to irritate me. Though I was growing to like the eye since it was fun sending it in to melee, that kinda cute little guy, but then they nerfed that too. So... yeah. Hope there are no more pets for us with the lvl 60 update down the line.
@felixkrell890
And on top of that they gave us runes that benefit from crits... Allowing dots to crit is nice but with 6% crit it is basically irrelevant...
It scales with Crit now too though.
I literally said this the other night. Raid utility means nothing when fights last 1 minute and just become a zerg fest. I am in a guild of half decent parsers, and will always have a raid spot - but not being able to at least be somewhat competetive on the DPS meter as a damage dealer is insanely demotivating. If they don't fix or redo scaling on casters, we're in for a Season of Brown on the DPS meters from here on out. Warriors and by a lesser extent, other melee classes, will continue to scale out of this world. I hope this video gets some traction and puts into perspective the scaling issues for casters vs melee.
Someone linked me this Video and i wanted to share some insight as a long time player and since i play Shadow Priest on high end Guild.
I have to agree that utility means nothing when it can be replaced or is not needed.
Here are some examples of our issues in current raid environment.
Homonculi - we replace this ability already with rogue improved expose armor because it provides more armor reduction which results in more dps for our melee and is more easily managed and applied since homonculi cannot be controlled and die too easily, the other debuffs like attack power reduction and attack speed reduction are replaced by our tank.
Shared pain - this is mediocre ability overall and is only used in very very few scenarios.
Eye of the void - only head rune to be used since it gives better damage increasing curses than what warlocks currently have but the damage of the pet is quite low and bosses and mobs have chance to resist the curse which cannot be reapplied because it has 3 minute cooldown.
Pain and suffering - Just bad design. does not provide anything meaningful for us, basically just re applies pain on mind blast cast which we can already just do ourselfs because we have room in the rotation.
Despair - i like the idea that our dots and mind flay can crit but we don't use mind flay because it does less than half the damage of mind spike in that cast window, the other thing is we have so low crit chance that even void zone will in some cases be better. also Devouring plague cannot crit which i hope is an oversight to this rune.
Our 2 chest runes, Void plague and Twisted faith, these shouldn't even share the same slot because we will only use void plague from now on unless the boss or mob is immune to diseases. I personally hope they change these slots and remove any immunities bosses have against Void plague or just change it to be magic debuff instead of disease.
Only issue i have with Mind Sear and SW:D is that Mind Sear cannot target a friendly player so instead you have to target the enemy and it doesnt do damage to the target you are casting the ability on, SW:D damage feedback is too much in my personal opinion and it should be more like 25% instead of 50%.
Other issues we have is that we don't really even need shadow weaving in raid because our warlocks are not playing Affliction because it does less damage than Destruction.
We aren't a pet class. It's not good design, let us do damage. Make melee stack their own armor pen. All we do is buff melee that already double our damage. It's a fucking joke.
Exactly.. I would be so into .. let shadow priest be channeler class, like mind flay boosted dmg.. not just spamm caster.. but channelers.. so that our spells would be channelled over time and stronger over time.. that sounds more interesting than what we get :( fast casters .. with no dmg
Pet design might work if they added actually useful buffs instead of curses or they made either of the new pets do more than 30 dps
Sarthe also mentioned with his ranking we would cap out at 1400 dps.
Which is at least 40% more dps than right now + utility 😂
- make SW:Death baseline
- move Twisted Faith rune from chest to gloves to take sw:d’s place, have it also buff mind spike
- mind flay targets take 6-8% increased magical damage
One thing that is really wrong about WCLogs is that all damage done by players benefiting from your buffs or debuffs should be YOUR damage on the logs, not theirs. Because if you're not there, that damage isn't either. And currently that reality does not appear on the dps logs.
Also i really disagree with the philosophy that "SoD is for beer chugging gamer dads" when in fact it's really not; most of my guild is made of pretty young people, mostly under 35. Having easier content for level-up raids is fine, but at endgame there needs to be a mix of easy raids, and actual challenges. It's ok if not everyone succeeds at every content the minute they come into contact with it. Overcoming a challenge is the best feeling video games can provide and SoD needs more of it.
One thing I think That was problematic ever since p1 is how the chest rune holds both Void plague and Twisted faith. Twisted faith shouldve been a leg rune, allowing us to drop from the supportive nature of Homunculi to focus more on single target damage. You only need 1 homunculi user in your raid and since Prayer of mending does not stack, and also because eventually the raid is just too easy, other priest in your raid will opt for going homunculi. This is also true for case where you would have 2 shadow priest. Homunculi become pretty much useless to a shadow priest as soon as there is more than 1 user, The damage from isnt good enough to justify the rune without the debuff. How about swapping Twisted faith and Prayer of mending maybe? That would be an easy buff to Shadow priest damage and the chest runebeing the least important currently for priest healer would have a more interesting option while still having something on their leg that would be usable.
In an alliance raid context, i'm finding it's very sensible to bring 1-2 shadow priests.
this not so much heavily because of how feral-locked melee dps are. Generally you are only bringing 2 feral to a raid for 2 melee groups, a caster group, and a healer group of 4 that often has a caster or hunter filling the 5th slot (since they wouldn't have a feral in the healer group, and ranged hunters like to be in the melee groups so the melee can get trueshot buffs to parse higher easier)
this leaves, generally room for 6 casters, which personally, i think makes sense if there are 2 mages (so they can buff fire and frost each) 3 warlocks/shadows (at least 1 shadow, to cover elements/shadows/reck, possibly prefer at least 2 shadow so you have more consistent homonculus debuffs on bosses) and a moonkin. (optionally, but the party aura, BR, innervate, and FF really swing the pendulum to them after all the other caster's support has run dry if over-stacked)
and more importantly, that warlock can be a tank warlock, allowing one of the melee to play dps, which will probably increase their damage more than it will hinder the warlock's dps, while giving shadow healing to a warlock tank, allowing healers to flex more dps runes also. - or if you have only 2 mages total, or arcane healer can flex to be the 2nd full dps mage.
so there isn't really any caster classes, that aren't being invited to a raid... (from what i can see on alliance)
-
who knows though, maybe meta raid comps later in the phase will cut the "caster group" entirely, in favor of 3 melee groups, and a 3 healer-2 caster group. (in which case, warlock tank and shadow priest with 3 healers would probably be best for that group)
Whats up Pantsface! Great video and yes I agree with you. You made a solid point when you quoted aggrends tweet. I dont see SPR ever being #1 dps and #1 heals in SoD. I love spr like you - ALL DWARF WOTLK here. IRONFORGED FTW!
I wish mine seer would be like MD, target the tank and % of the threat goes to tank. It would make sp aoe unique and fit the utility class identity
whats the name of the weakaura / addon that beeps when people target you for pvp
Spy
I have leveled 6 different shadow priests to max level since the OG vanilla , where at 10/11 yrs old i decided that dwarf shadow priest was by far the best race/class combo from all available class/race combos, by checking the oldschool wow website which had a spell breakdown for every racial/class spell u get their dmg mana cost level u get it etc. I am about to level my 7th in sod for this phase( i am a warrior main nowadays but warrior in sod is legit just classic warr again, so let the shadow priest addiction roll!) - PS. Already know ur an OG shadow priest because of miks scrolling battle text... we gotta do that dont we :P
im very grateful that the devs are actively working on a solution - it sucks that half the time when I bring this up people try to snuff out the conversation on the basis that spriest is good for pvp and therefore deserves to be punished.
Part of the issue is that we have no burst-cleave without swapping runes off from crucial single target runes. Bursting trash with swp tab feels terrible, and killing bosses without despair and swd feels terrible - so swapping 2 runes 2x between bosses is mandatory - maybe converting some of these into passive talent books would help - alternatively void zone and mind sear can stay reserved for large scale sustained AOE niche situations if the mind flay reworks allow us to do some amount of cleave or relevant single target on trash packs
I understand this sucks but I get around it using Itemrack. If you have 2 pairs of wrists/gloves you can swap your runes with a keybind and have a single target set and an aoe set. It's an imperfect solution at best, but makes for easy swapping between trash and boss runes
@@Pants_Gaming I could live with carrying the extra gear (although im not overly fond of needing 2x bis and enchants) the issue for me is I prefer to use [@mouseover] priority and auto targeting macros so not only am I changing runes im also constantly rearranging my action bars throughout the raid - to my knowledge there is no way to automate rearranging skills/macros in your action bar - toggle action bar is not an option as I am already utilizing all 10 available bars
best case we have to wait out our cds and hardcast voidzone while basically everyone else can effectively keep moving seamlessly - dont get me wrong I enjoy playing with different runes for different raid comps and boss strategies
there are numerous approaches they could take to address this - another thought is what if void zone could last longer or provide its own shadow debuff to make it a single target/aoe hybrid similar to living flame
for my configuration I may be forced to use multiple keybinds for skills of the same rune slot in order to not go crazy but that has its own major drawbacks
Those spy sounds at 3:35 had me looking all around in game
Lol yeah they’re triggering
They should just add multiple raid difficulties (and better itemized PvP gear so top tier raiders don’t dominate in PvP). Doesn’t necessarily have to be a separate mode like heroic. Do something like Ulduar hardnode where you interact with something in the raid to increase difficulty. These raids are such Zerg fests, balancing around them will never work and will further destroy PvP. Shadow priests just got a 10% dmg increase despite being the strongest class in PvP just because they can’t compete in st
Half buttons I press are not for dmg. Feels meh. I thought they would add vampiric touch with decent cast time. There is just no good runes contesting the simp ones (homunculi, eye of the void, nerfed swd), even newly added rune allowing dot crits is meh because of such low crit% values.
hey Pants! Long time Mage main here and re-rolled Shadow for SoD to switch things up. I couldn’t agree more on this video and your take on the state of Spriest rn. I’m enjoying as an avid PvPer but stepping raids, doing my prep, full consumes, pre-bis gear and just not being able to compete on meters is frustrating. i know i signed up for a “utility” class but the potential for spriest is there i def think everyone can see that. What’s your opinion on gearing for us this phase? How accurate is Wowhead and Zockify. Seems like a lot of our BiS is staying green shadow items and then completely skipping tier items, etc.
yo, I haven't put a ton of research into it but this is what I see as BiS. Will be making a video about it soon once I dive into it a bit more
wowsims.github.io/sod/shadow_priest/#eJzjEuBgEmAyYLRgLGBqYNKYwMToxNbAxHiBkVGIQeorKxdbQE5iZWqRALuEkQKr1nRGLi6BjiCDo3wah+dIcrEInN/Ny8UpsMffYB+fxFxLIPNjvsEuPol2di5ugY49vBIL2DW+/JQEcnpmMkrc5tPYtkaKi0Pg2DJGjcVHJICsG+d5NZaDxdr38Gq8PyUBVNoJ1HeFTePcL5AFV4AWsAhMOgQiHzeByN8HQOSdqyByG1j20xxGI24Bbg/mAMYKvg5GZqs2Fq4HTAyjgKZAaAHjQDuBEHjFxODE7sAYwDiBkdFLSFfX1MDIyMjAxMDAyNTA0MjUMIAlgjuJIYtJgrHgBGNFyixGhk+MTFIMSoeYOSEG+DkIQhgiDpKzZoLASXtLiMgFe8U0MLhmbzSJmWPlal4hDp/UstQcBRMDCS0Fdq1BlgI/NDpQxRyuBRSZc4RH0JEq7gACQzDp0O9gmZn/ofVkyFV7mNEOEYwAwFtjRg==
What unit frames are you using?
We want some cata videos! 😊
I just cannot agree with you more .. I mean. .I heal party hurrayy.. but .. I do no dmg.. in the end .. all raids in SOD are about DPS.. as lategame is pure zerg boss..
Spriests are pog.
So a few comments from the "average dad guild" although none of us have kids and we're in our mid 20s.
We still stack shadow priests when pugging because btw the average player will still take a ton of needless damage and die. Shadow priests help because even in these easy raids they offset bad healers and bad Dps quite a bit. The damage is "low" relative to wcl parsing standards but you didn't even consider showing what the actual damage differential is for shadow compared to other classes. Wcl has really messed up people's perceptions because although a class like warrior can do more damage than a shadow priest there's a ton of caveats I just do not need to worry about if I pug a shadow. They don't need to be in a feral group, they don't need hummunc, they don't need to move (generally) and they fucking heal.
If the difference for all of that, is an inconsequential 300dps then why do I care as a casual trying to clear the raid?
it's way more than 300. And the pug meta is suboptimal by nature, which leads you to wanting to play safe vs anything else. This also means you'll generally be picking up bad players since most decent players run with a guild/organized group. The requirements for a class to be better than others shouldn't be "we have bad players who aren't dodging mechanics"
I just have two random ideas for shadow priests, not really about your video topic.
1. Make mindflay relevant. Its iconic, let us melt faces. After mind blast crit, increase the range of mind flay by 10 or whatever yards to be equivalent to other spells and also be increased cast speed 100% to 1.5 seconds. Another option is give it the drain life dot treatment that warlocks have. Throw a 3 second mindflay dot after mind blast crits. Can also add a debuff after completing 3 ticks of mindflay as another option.
2. Spirit tap talent. Make inner fire give spell power and spirit conversion to SP or even crit idk. Basically a spirit tap proc during fights that gives us a power boost not just mana regen. Spirit tap becomes useless for encounters and only good for trash or leveling. Blackout is also a useless talent for encounters typically. Make one of these talents have more value through a rune or book.
Send this suggestion to aggrend my fellow shadow priest enjoyer
From a non shadow priest point of view :
They should change the vampiric embrace to heal 5 persons in the RAID who have the lowest HP
The hps you bring is fantastic, but there is too much overhealing wasted by that
They should give you the control of your Homonculus pets ffs, wtf is that, like a pet attack pet follow
Void form man, this should be a thing in SOD since you have no burst button, it would be so much fun
Dev got no grasp of the reason people roll DPS.
you here have a class with 2 healing spec and 1 dps spec and you're making the dps a support rather than fleshing one of the 2 healing spec into that. Disc wouldve been the perfect spec to provide support while doing some damage and not being a DPS spec. Druid Got that with the wrath spec. Where is our smite Spec? shadow shouldnt be replacing it.
With the mindset of SoD players always crying for brain dead easy contents I’d rather not bother playing it and just wait for Cata. This is clearly not gonna ever be a version of the game that satisfies players who enjoy prog. ST prenerf was an anomaly and I don’t think they’ll ever repeat such a thing in the future of SoD.
I agree, im a top 10 SP atm in sod, i love playing it but the dmg is just tooo low in pve content. I dont really understand how its this op in pvp but so bad compared in pve.
Pretty simple. It is OP because players don know how to dispell and/or heal a person. And in the minds of most players dispersion hast a 10sec CD with 5 sec uptime, a movement buff, selfheal and reapplication of dot all at the same time. At least kind of.
ive done 2 runs of sunken temple so far and i was the highest damage dealer in both of them
i dont trust or believe other peoples notions about how strong or weak classes are. i think what matters most is the person behind the keyboard who is playing the class. and i strive to be the best at any spec i play in wow no matter what. i will always find a way to do more damage
Shadow starts off relatively strong because they don’t scale well, meaning they have full power early on but get worse and worse compared to other classes as phases go on. If you’re topping meters then you play with bad players, not trying to be a dick that’s just the truth
@@Pants_Gaming "you play with bad players". ive heard that phrase so many times over my years of playing wow. every time i bring up how much damage im capable of doing, someone throws that phrase at me. nobody ever wants to ever admit or acknowledge that maybe im actually really good at the game and put in alot of effort to be good at the game
This is what boss damage looks like when you play with people of the same skill. People say you play with bad players because you don't seem to understand the difference between good and bad players
vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fAjQ8MLgnrXC2Td1#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2
@@Pants_Gaming i dont judge people and categorize them as "good" or 'bad". i have no control over how other people play the game. the only person i have control over is myself and i push myself and my character to the absolute limit every chance i get and do the most damage possible
@@rdmqwertypost logs, let us be the judge of this God gamer who can beat the odds and out dps the melee hunters that only have to push 2 buttons.
We really going to talk about raid utility when fights are 1 min or less? We really going to ignore the fact that shamans are over performing against every class by a milestone in the game because the people who designed SOD are very bias to only classes they play? Shadow priests are absolute dog water on the meters because our gear itemization in greens have better stat weights then tier pieces. Then you look at shamans its almost like they took into account what exactly they needed and accommodated that class perfectly.
isnt priest kinda a support class tho? im not surprised their in this situation and it feels weird priests are so upset their raid dps is so low. Kinda just the brainrot that damage meters and the ego/bragging rights its given to players have caused
Then why is the utility not needed?
@@CaithlynTube their utility is needed lol who said it wasnt?