I bought one in 1984 as my first new car. I still own it to this day with only 77k miles on it. White SE (similar to the one in the picture, but with a sunroof.) Mine was actually manufactured in October of 1983.
@williamsteele That was the car I learned about regional differences. 1986 iron Duke engine shipped to the Midwest only got 13 inch steal wheels. 5 speed manual had no speed control. Rebuilding the retractable headlights became a cottage industry
The parts bin aspect of it always blew me away. They used a lot of parts that already existed, usef on other cars, to build something that a lot of people thought was an attractive car without spending a lot of money
I rear-ended a Fiero on the way home in the mid 80's. The driver came out and was having a hissy-fit. I explained that I was fully insured and calmed him down. Helping him pick up at least 4 body panels, he explained to me he had just purchased the car that morning. Thanks
Christmas 1983 I got an about 1/16 scale New Bright remote control Fiero, everything opened and all the lights including the pop-up headlights worked. Guzzled batteries and light shone through the plastic "body" panels (including the backs of the headlights) but it was an awesome toy at age 9.
Sometimes I wish I could go back and experience my early 80s Christmases again. Atari, hot wheels, RC cars, small TV for my room, cassettes with my favorite music for my Walkman, etc, etc. I had a Richard Petty NASCAR RC car that was fun, and I took the rubber tires off the wheels so it would slide around on the kitchen floor (like it was supposed to at those speeds).
My wife fell in love with them. We subsequently bought an 88 model year. Must have been something wrong with it because everyone else was complaining of theirs breaking down and other reliability issues and that car lasted and lasted without any heavy duty issues. It was fun to drive and quick if not overall fast. I'm of the belief that GM cancelled that car too soon. With quality issues behind them and finally putting in a banger of an engine with that V6 and adding a special c-pillar design for the GT the car was hot.
I got a job working as a file clerk for an engineering company that had the Fiero program back in 1983. This job led into a drafting apprentice position and then pivoted back and forth between design and engineering for 38 years. I will always love the Fiero for getting me my start.
@@RareClassicCars 989 Chicago Road, Troy Mi. Part of my job was runner (inter office mail) which allowed me to network. The owner, George Millidrag and lead Engineer Hulki Adachi were kind, funny and incredibly smart. Every Friday, after lunch I was also tasked with hitting the local bars to try and talk draftsmen to return to work. The amount of on the job drinking, gambling and drug use back in those days would be unbelievable by today's standards.
I always thought that the Oldsmobile Quad 4, that came out in 1987 would have been the best engine for the Fiero. Being a 4 cyl it would have been more compact than the 2.8 V6 and at 180 hp., it beat the 100 hp Iron Duke and the 150 hp V6. I suspect that, once again, GM was concerned that another division was threatening the Corvette.
The Quad4 looked good on paper, but because GM wouldn’t spring for balance shafts most people hated it in reality. So it would have turned the Fiero into a slightly faster tractor.
The Quad Four was a problematic engine in a number of ways. Of course it suffered the typical new engine reliability problems. But it also wasn't a very compact engine. The 60 degree V6 may have been a more compact engine. It also suffered from having a number of sub systems in none standard positions. GM tried putting them in a special run Pontiac model, only to discover that there was no way to remove the oil filter when it needed to be changed. I have a friend that spent a summer opening up the passenger side foot well and installing an access hatch to remove the oil filter. All those cars had white interiors, and the oil filter had to be passed through the passenger foot well to remove. I wonder how much warranty work GM did to replace stained carpet?
Still have and drive my 1987 Pontiac Fiero. This was my first new car back in the day. The Fiero has always been a sharp looking car. I’m glad there are many people today that take an interest in them.❤
I remember a review of the GT saying how the heavier V6 reduced the ideal near 50/50 weight balance, something Toyota MR2 got around by adding a turbo.
A friend shoehorned a 350 ci Chevy engine into his. The biggest challenge - getting the wiring correct. Good looking car, but I always thought the wheel openings were too big. I like the way the angle of the leading edge of the C pillar (just past the 'glass') leads down to about where the rear axle is. Makes for a very balanced look. Thanks for posting.
I don’t believe they “rotated” the X car cradle 180 degrees to make the P car but rather brought it straight back to the rear of the vehicle. The drive belts are on the passenger side of both the front drive cars and the rear drive Fiero.
This is the 2nd time Adam has stated this incorrect fact. He also mentioned it in his 1st Fiero video, and was corrected by many in the comments. This 180-degree rumor has been around since the car was new. Adam, you are smarter than this! 😊
You are correct; the engine and its cradle were not turned around when placed in the Fiero. The difference is, on the Fiero, it has the rest of the car ahead of the engine instead of behind it. Water pump on the right, transmission on the left, etc. The other major issue with the video is the comment about the "Lotus" suspension. The '88 Fiero actually uses the original designed-by-Pontiac suspension design which was shelved for a few years in order to cut costs. The "Suspension by Lotus" rumor is exactly that - a rumor.
Me and my Mechanics teacher built an 88 GT. We use a 3.0L Pontiac Super Duty, with a DOHC head we got out of the US. It had Bosch mechanical fuel injection, with 4 throttle bodies, and a header that dumped in to 4 Supertrap mufflers to keep it quiet. We were pushing over 300HP at the rear wheels.
2:44. The early Fieros wouldn't have disappointed if Pontiac had been allowed to offer the Super Duty version of the 4 cylinder. I believe I've read about a 2.7 and a 3.0 they built, one of them produced 300 HP if memory serves me right. A magnesium block at one point. 🤘 hell yeah, Pontiac engineers could always do amazing things, if allowed to, with what they had to work with
Friend's dad built one with a 3.4 dohc engine/transmission out of a Z34 Lumina. Was a beast. Also built a 3.3 liter Camry/Solara powered 2nd gen MR2. Instilled a love of mid engined cars in me. Have a 914 and will own a Renault Alpine some day...
The Super Duty 4 is still an impressive engine even by today's standards. IIRC a detuned version was used in the actual Fiero pace car, and but was able to handle 500 HP out of the box.
@@HAL-dm1eh I know😂,in the 80s, it was like, GM told Pontiac : you're not building V8s anymore, and the Pontiac guys said, we're not just quitting as far as performance. (I've got a lot of old HPP mags)
@@marko7843 It was based on the Iron Duke 2.5L 4 that was in the original Fiero. It was an amazingly built block/head that accepted all original Iron Duke parts, but could rev to 10,000 rpm's with solid lifters, living all day at 8K. GM allowed Pontiac to put four of them in the actual Fiero pace cars (said to have around 232 hp), but GM then took and keeps those pace cars under tight wraps to this day, and wouldn't let Pontiac offer any in production vehicles. That amount of hp wasn't half of what the engine could do, and those Fieros still made jokes out of Chevy's 205 hp/5.7L front engine Corvettes. The blocks et al were subsequently produced and sold to racers and enthusiasts only, who happily paid top dollar for them and had lots of fun with turbos and nitrous, and some just building them to 200-300 hp in street Fieros. But the engines still remained rare and you'd be lucky to find one today.
I was an architect designer at the time of the Fero. Spandrel fake glass was extremely popular as a design detail on buildings, appliances etc. So the Fero with imitation glass was normal and popular as a design choice.
The "fake black plastic" behind the doors that kind of looks like a window reminds me of the hatchback Mustang's from the late-80's. Those do have some actual light pass-through but a lot of that was just glass in front of the C-pillar.
Yep, as a Fox-body Mustang owner I came looking for this. There was actually glass back there but then a plastic sail panel to make the C-pillar look smaller than it was. On later versions the panel and window were one piece of glass.
Adam, LOVE your channel but you are smarter than this! 😊 - Twin bumper pads are the obvious homage to Pontiac split grill. - Powertrain slid straight back, not 180 degrees. Trans & belts are on the same respective sides as FWD cars. You also mentioned this in your last Fiero video and people corrected it in the comments. - Lotus not involved in final year suspension design. It was Pontiac’s original 1983 design that was shelved by bean counters. These urban legends have been around since the car was new and have been debunked by the Fiero design team for decades. As evidence, there are speaking events, shows, videos, interviews, books, magazines, etc… Keep up the good work, just maybe correct these items on Fieros going forward. 🙂
I currently own an 88 Duke and an 88 Formula. The fake glass plastic area behind the side glass DID HAVE A FUNCTION!... It was the fresh air exit vent for the HVAC system.
These were awesome! They came out in 1984 when I graduated from high school and I wanted one bad~! (Well, that and an '82 Toyota Supra....) Dad laid down three facts to me: 1. This was a brand new car and since my college was going to be expensive, a new car was out of the question. 2. This was a first year GM product and as such it would be more than good to STAY AWAY. Let others be the "guinea pigs" 3. The very last thing that a college kid needs is a two seat car. A college student needs a minivan or a station wagon, since they move around a lot. He was completely right. What did I buy in March of 1984? A Bali green '77 Volkswagen Rabbit two door. That really was the best car for me since it had tons of room and got 40 mpg on the highway. The 9.6 second 0-60 times were entertaining too, especially when I embarrassed my friends in their big American cars, even ones with (stock, or course) 455's! But I still loved the notion of a mid engine car, and in 2018 I traded my '85 Porsche 928S2 5 speed for a Guards Red '14 Cayman S. It is a fantastic car, runs mid 12 second quarter mile times, can go 178 mph, and gets 31 mpg on the highway courtesy of the 2976 pound curb weight. Honestly, the only thing I don't like about my red Cayman is the fact that I have nothing to tinker with; With the 928 there was always something non-essential to mess with and the engine was easy to access. Honestly? If I had the garage space I would buy another 928 or a Fiero or an early MR2 just to tinker with. Great video!
@@Glasscitycarnerd You see what's left of it every time you see one of the cab forward 90s Camaro/Firebirds. Coincidentally, there was a rare Camaro of that generation named the Callaway C8.
Owned one when they came out in '84. Had another one 10 years later. Just recently bought another with 47000 original miles, garage kept its whole life. Loved these cars
Fox body Mustangs did the same trick on the C-pillar. While it did have a window, it was tiny and the remaining portion was plastic on 79-86 and a glass panel on 87-93.
Came here to say this. The 87+ Fox Body Mustangs used the same trick by blacking out much of the rear quarter glass and the earlier models disguised the area as a fake plastic vent or louver.
I had a red 86 just like the one in the initial shots back in the high school, and I felt like I was driving a Ferrari. A very slow Ferrari, mine had the Iron Duke and auto. I'd love to have an 88 GT now.
I had one for a time. It was a four banger, but still plenty of fun. One memory is when I and four of my grown sons crammed ourselves into it for a short drive.
The comment about The black plastic imitating the look of black glass has another function also. At one end, it curves in and openings can be seen. These openings are for the interior flow through air ventilation system that all cars have these days. This car has no hatch and the interior ends at the back of the seats. This is where the air exits the car.
My wife had the 84 just like your first picture. Comments: No power steering means she built up good arm strength. Bad in winter with wide tires it wouldn’t turn, just plow straight ahead. Beautifully designed. Red with the tan cloth interior. Unique feature I remember is the stereo speakers in each headrest. Engine overheating issue (the TPS) caused by a late change in the engine cover to address water intrusion and what GM considered as bad aesthetics of seeing thru the vents which ultimately caused us 4 or more TPS in just a few years time. No lemon law back then, but my wife just loved that car. (Pre-kids era). Got her an 8 passenger Safari van when kids came along! Thanks again for these great videos.
What is very interesting is that the transverse 4.9 Cadillac V8 from the 1986 Sedan Deville fits in the engine bay perfectly and even uses the same frame mounts as the 2.8 V6. Plus, the engine doesn't weigh much more than the 2.8 but the V8 transforms this car into a real Corvette performer.
Thank you Adam. The 1990-1996 Grand Prix sedan especially in STE trim before 1997 did not have a split grille. The 1994-1995 Pontiac Bonneville did not have a split grille either. The Cadillac CT5 has black trim like that to make the c-pillar look thinner. Thank you for the video.
Many SUVs black out the B or C pillar to make it look like more glass area. The current Suburban has a blacked out aft door window frame to make the rear window look bigger, and the C-pillars look thinner.
I bought a red 84 that was on the side of the road for sale for like $2500 around 1999. I loved the headlights and the size. I took off the black grills and re-painted them; they looked great. I didn't know about the triangle trim and it being only visual. It would look funny without it. Problem was, it was hard to get in and out of. I had to hoist myself out of it and I just got tired of it (my other vehicle was a Jeep Wrangler, go figure). I'm an auto detailer and a client has 2 corvettes; one is a 2025 Z51. They both also have a non-functioning triangle behind the window. I noticed it and asked myself why it was like that? Now I know it's just style, since there's no back seat. Thank you!
Bought it brand new 1984 right out of showroom window. It got more thumbs up driving than anything I've owned. It was reliable but the iron Duke 4 wheezy and slow. Rode like a lumber truck. Heavy for small car but actually fun to drive
The 1984 design hasn't aged at all. It is still a beautiful piece of automotive art. It has very few aesthetic flaws, compared with Ferraris, Lambos and the like. In my opinion, GM ruined the original design with the GT big wings, air dams and "snowplow" bumpers that were slapped on it to make it look more agressive to the performance fans.
I like both versions. Our original design was very clean. Have you ever seen these with nice wheel well filling wheels and the right stance? There won't be another like this one.
My parents live across the street from the Pontiac chief executive in charge of the program at the time. Was fortunate to be able to see all the Fiero prototypes and racing versions he brought home. Never wanted one, but they could have been awesome.
My ex-father-in-law, Ron Rogers was the one of the project managers along with his boss Jay Wetzel on this vehicle. He brought home several prototypes for evaluation and I was able to drive quite a few. Including the Corvette killer with the turbo charged motor that had as much HP as a Vette. Wow!
I had a new red '88 GT V6 auto & man was that thing fun to drive, like a go-kart! Only kept it 4 yrs & now regret selling it! Really love that yellow BMW 2002 in the background, my uncle had a blue '69 when I was still living in Bavaria Germany 1965-1975 ✌💖☮
I believe that GM called the composite body panels "enduroflex". It was funny hearing the Tech 4 powerhouse in these cars. You have to be careful when racking or jacking these cars due to the poorly protected coolant pipes that ran up to the front. The dealership I worked at had to replace the lines on occasion due to improper jacking by the owner.
I had the 85 2m4 SE in silver. Aside from the lack of power, for a 6 foot driver the seats were too upright for real comfort, especially as low as the sitting position was, (Imagine a go cart), not the "fall into the car" sports car driving position. The fit and finish were typical for the time, pretty bad. My family also had a first year Citation. I recognize the dog bone engine support in both cars. As an "immobilizer" on the Fiero at least, I remember it was pretty easy to take with you the central distributor cable -if memory serves. We took it on several +100 mile road trips and had a lot of fun with it.
I had a flashback when the Alliance convertible came up. The first car I ever bought at 16 years old was a garnet red one with a tan top. Not actually a bad car just a little quirky. I had to either buy my own car or drive a truck my parents owned. That was a 1968 Chevy with a “3 on the tree” and no power steering. Actually, 34 years later, the truck is still around but the Renault is long gone!
I had 3 Fieros (not at the same time). I had an 86 w/2.5/5-speed, which I put 100k miles on. Sold that to a guy for $2500 plus another Fiero (an 85 w/2.5/4-Speed), which I sold to my cousin for $1000. Lastly, I picked a really nice 87 GT/Auto, which had a little scoop on that side air inlet. I never noticed any noise from those. I kinda wished I could have tried out a GT 5-speed (preferably an 88), but no joy. I never had any real issues with any of them. The 87 had a hard starting issue that I resolved with a new air inlet sensor.
Came here to say that. They kept the pre-facelift (2012-'14) XV50's doors but wanted to make it less obvious. Almost certainly the most widespread (in the sense of number produced) case of "DLO FAIL," to use Hagerty contributor Sajeev Mehta's term.
Pontiac similarly added a black plastic piece to the C-pillar of the 1989-1991 6000's (the very one shown in the video @2:20) when they gave it a less angular appearance.
I’m pretty sure the Camry is just black paint, not plastic. The black paint idea was used on the later GM A-bodies, and then much later, the Camry as you mention. It looked awful in both of those cases.
The all-around rub strip bisecting the vehicle is also a Ferrari signature of the era. But GM can lay claim to it too, since the Stingray started the Corvette idea of a very strong character line dividing upper and lower body. I love that Pontiac designers incorporated the rub strip, both reflectors, the door handle, and the door lock in this line. I'm amazed more designers - old and new - don't try to consolidate/minimize the clutter like this. Well done. And the fake rear quarter window lives on in the Miata RF (targa) of today. Adam, I remember reading a while back there's a hidden bunker somewhere full of 1989 Fiero's that were produced then hidden when the program was cancelled. I have no idea if that's true. If anyone can find it, it's you!
I visited a Pontiac dealership when the Fiero first came out that had the most amazing seat covering. It was beautiful curly sheepskin in the center of the seat and back with a fabric/suede on the side. Now that is something I would like to see come back.
Thanks so much for doing this one! I was in middle-school in Detroit, MI when the Fiero debuted, and remember it clearly! Too bad that Hulki Aldikacti has passed on, it would have been great to interview him on this one. I can't wait to see more on the technical aspects. I love your channel!
I would say that the twin black horizontal pads on the front bumper are a "nod" to the split grill theme. Thanks for highlighting what really is an attractive and unique car!
Awesome. I remember as a teenager when the Fiero came out, I didn’t like the C pillar (the trim piece is great, I’m talking about the whole cut off angled look. I sat down and sketched out some ideas of how I thought it should look. My sketches ended up looking remarkably similar to the direction GM went with designing the GT version! But, here we are 40 years later and I prefer the original design, lol. Looks sharp without pretentiousness.
Loved the fiery from the moment it came on the scene. Styling masterpiece inside and out and even 40 years later still looks modern. As a hs student when they came out, obviously couldn’t afford one, but now own a low mile 84 Indy Fiero for about 15 years now. Coming out of malaise Gm just didn’t have a proper sporting engine to equip the fiero. Thanks for helping to celebrate a great Pontiac achievement
I drove an early base model with the "Iron Duke" and a manual transmission. Its performance was on par with other small bore sports cars. I enjoyed driving it.
Loved my 88 Fiero I bought new off the lot in late 1989… nobody wanted them by then. It only had the 2.5 4cyl but the 5 speed made it a fun commuter car.
I was one of 2 Pontiac mechanics at a multiple brand dealership back in the late 80's-to the late 90's when we sold the brand. I still have nightmares...
I worked at Pontiac dealer as tech, when these were new. Absolute nightmare of problems. Cracked blocks, clutch failures, parking brake stuck,drive-ability issues, check engine lights, oil leaks trans problems. And of course the famous fire recall. I still have memories of all 12 bays in the shop with red Fieros on every lift. We would have so many apart at the same time, that we had to mark the boxes of disassembled engines with customers name. On a brighter side of things, it paid for my first house!
My 1979 Ford Mustang (Fox body) had a similar trim behind the side windows. The Mustang’s version used a plastic matte black louvered piece as opposed to the Fiero’s glass like application. In later years, Ford changed this to more of a gloss, faux window like piece as in the Fiero. My first new car was a 79 Mustang and I recall being so impressed with those louvers. Although they didn’t serve a single functional purpose.
I worked a used car lot back in the 80's We had a 84 Fiero with a check engine light on. It cost me a large pizza to find out where the diagnostic connector was at. (You have to look it up for your self, or, I will tell you for a pizza!
Would love to hear more about the Fiero: - The engineering problems with the shortened Iron Duke oil pan. - The crazy number of fires. - Getting killed because the redesign handled better than the Vette. - The last Pontiac produced in Pontiac.
So fun to drive one of these, had two back in the 90's. Little hedder wrap fixed the fire issue dunno why GM could not just do a recall and fix them but they didn't.
Great video 👏🙏👍 It is unfortunate what happened to GM. GM competed neck to neck with Pontiac Fiero and Toyota MR2…but nowadays, GM can’t even compete with Hyundai! What happened to GM? They have become disastrous brand for small engine manufacturing. Not one small displacement engine that GM makes are reliable nowadays.
Regarding the "fake" rear side windows - Ford used something similar on their 1979-86 Mustangs and Capris behind their rear side glass - they had fake louvers there, and on some trims this was painted black to help minimize the size of the C-pillars. Weirdly, on other trims it was body colored. BTW: My "dream" car is a 1985 Fiero 2M4/SE with a sunroof, and a Pontiac LT3 2.0L Turbo engine swap and a 5 speed manual. Someday, I'll make it!
I worked in the design department of GM’s small car group. The most impressive part of the Fiero IMO was the drill/mill fixture that located all the panel fastener holes. The welded space frame was located in the fixture with a mix of datum’s and then all the holes were drilled and the surface around those holes were milled to provide a “pad” that the sheet molded compound panels rested on when mounted. Absolutely state of the art precision and repeatability. Also, since the body panels have little structural duty, the car allowed for rapid styling changes without any impact to the vehicle’s structural integrity. A great concept but watered down to satisfy the bean counters that ran things back then. Automotive companies should be managed by engineers and designers, not accountants…
A 1986 base model Fiero was my first new car, and one of only two vehicles I ever bought new. It was a wonderful car, and a whopper of a deal for the price. It looked like a Ferrari, and could be bought for under $10K OTD. Mine was gold metallic. 2.5L /5 speed. It was a base model with pretty much no options. It came with plastic wheel covers. Within the first year I had it, I got the 14" alloy wheels like the ones on that red one, and had the oem luggage rack installed on the rear lid. The Fiero was actually a very high quality car, the SMC body panels fit and lined up perfectly, due to the Space Frame design. The steering and suspension was nothing special, the front came from the Chevette, the rear suspension, along with the engine, transmission, and rear subframe came from the front wheel drive Chevy Citation, just flipped around. Driven as it was designed to be driven, as a commuter car, it was just fine. I kept that car for 9 years, and over 150,000 miles. I only got rid of it because I needed a vehicle with a rear seat. I never had a single problem with it. The interior was somewhat unique, it also looked like something you would find in an Italian exotic. It had a very high and wide center console, giving you the feeling you were in an aircraft of spaceship. It reminded me of the first generation Lotus Esprit Turbo. The gas tank was below that console, which was why it was so large. If you want pretty much all the information that is available on the Fiero, and its unique design, I suggest reading the book "Fiero: Pontiac's Potent Mid Engine Sports Car" by Gary Witzenburg.
I remember reading MT when the Fiero was launched. They explained that division in the black rub strip in the front was done as a nod to Pontiac's split grille.
I owned a 1982 S-10 pickup. It had the 2.8L V-6. It was relatively reliable, but was sorely lacking in HP. The engine blew a rod somewhere around 89,000 miles. I had a rebuilt one put in and it lasted till the rest of the truck rusted away and all the peripheral hydraulic lines, gas line, vacuum lines etc... all began leaking. 80's were not a good decade for GM vehicles generally speaking.
Here is some interesting information I have gathered over the years as a Fiero Enthusiast, and huge Fan.. The rear "pillar window" was actually glass on the '84 and changed to plastic afterward. I owned a mint condition '85 Fiero SE 2M6 (2 seat/Mid Engine/6 Cylinder). I liked the original style body more than the later "GT" style body with "sailwings", more rounded front end without the black "crash pads" like ferrari 308's had, and taller tail lights . To me the earlier body more resembles an Italian sports car. the SE had the 2.8 V6, and most of the available options, like A/C, Cloth Seats, Upgraded Stereo with headrest speakers, 4 speed transmission, and sunroof. I am not sure if all SE Models came equipped like this though. The original Fiero and later 4 Cylinder models were designated 2M4. Another interesting fact was the sunroof could be removed completely and stowed under the hood in front above the spare tire. there was also a trim piece "air deflector" stowed up there to snap into the roof at the front of the open sunroof opening when the sunroof was removed. I owned my Fiero for awhile before I realized the Sunroof could be removed by squeezing the buttons on either side of the latches, but didn't really know where to place it after removal. It wasn't until watching a UA-cam video of a mechanic working on one, and saw him place it under the hood on the pads designed to hold it. There was also cushioning under the hood to hold it in place while traveling. Pontiac closed a manufacturing plant in Michigan to retrofit to build the "Space frame" and assemble the vehicle. This space frame was robotically welded together, dipped for corrosion prevention and all the body panel mounting points robotically machined and drilled to ensure precise consistent fit of the panels, hood and deck lid. The original "Iron Duke" 4 Cylinder vehicles were recalled and a "Heat Shield" retrofit was installed due to the high number of engine fires. The Engineer who was the driving force behind the Fiero development was a heavy smoker, that's why it was designed with 2 ashtrays with flip up lids, one on each side of the console. GM contracted with a outside company "Corporate Concepts" in Capac Michigan after the V6 was first introduced in the Fiero to design a "Re-Body" for the vehicle. Magnum P.I. was popular then and the Ferrari 308GT was chosen as the basis for it. After almost 2 years of Clay Work and Design Work the MERA was born in 1987. A total of 88 Brand New Fiero GT's were converted to MERA's the first year, and 159 were converted in '88 using the Fiero Formula model new vehicles, with the total number produced of 247. Also in 1988 Cromadora of Italy was used to make Replica Aluminum Ferrari wheels for the Fiero 5 bolt hubs. Chromadora had at one time cast wheels for Ferrari. The earlier '87 MERA's had stock Fiero Rims painted to match the body color. The Mera was sold at Pontiac Dealers only as a new car, and no kits were sold. They Even had Ferrari Badges on the hood! The MERA was not endorsed by GM but was a Pontiac Dealer Option similar to ordering a conversion van. The MERA sold for about $24,00 to $28,000 depending on the options, just shy of the cost for a new Corvette at the time. All of the Ferrari 308-328 Fiero based later "Kit Cars" were molded off a MERA, or other Kit Car which was Molded off the MERA. Many other "Kit Cars" have been built resembling Lamborghinis and other exotics. In 1989 a new Fiero Prototype was developed with more futuristic design and many engine options considered. It was rumoured that a V8 version is likely what killed the Fiero Model, as it would compete with GM's Flagship Corvette with excellent performance lighter weight and the suspension improvements developed by Lotus. The '84 to '88 Fieros were nearly a perfect 50/50 front to rear weight ratio, and had incredible corner to corner rigidity due to the "Spaceframe" design. The Fiero could be driven without any body panels as they provided no structure. The Fiero was also the platform to develop the plastic "EnduraFlex" body panels, and composite plastic hood and trunk lid. light metal was incorporated into the truck lid structure to prevent RF Noise Interference over the AM/FM Stereo as the inner fender wells and front firewall/rear "trunk" cavity were metal and created a "Faraday Cage" around the Engine's Ignition System preventing this Interference. GM later used the plastic body technology on Saturn Vehicles and it led the way to more wider use industry wide. The follow up to the Fiero was the 2005 to 2010 Pontiac Solstice Roadster using a front engine/rear wheel drive 2.4L Inline 4 Cylinder, and 2007 to 2010 Saturn Sky Roadster using a front engine/rear wheel drive 2.4L 177 HP Inline 4 Cylinder and 260 HP 2L Inline Turbo 4 Cylinder. An optional dealer installed MAP Sensor and ECM Flash upgrade was available for the 2L making 290HP. Both the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky used the Kappa automobile platform. The Wilmington Assembly plant in Delaware where these were manufactured closed in 2009 after both Pontiac and Saturn Roadster Models were retired. I was in the Inland Empire Fiero Club and saw an '88 GT Fiero with a Cadillac Northstar V8 and a Cadillac Allante Intake System. It was incredibly quick! many others used the Turbo Charged 3.8 Liter GM V6 which was almost a drop in conversion into the Engine Cradle. Still others used Chevy V8s. Our Club had a good number of Members, and it was always incredible to see the long line of Fiero's driving to and from the Events and Meets. Then the rows of them parked most with the hood and decklids raised showing off the many modified and some completely stock versions. We definitely drew a lot of attention! I was forced to sell my '85 SE several years back and have missed the car greatly since. I bought it in 2006 after a motorcycle wreck which totalled my bike. The Fiero had 65K original miles, the 4 speed manual transmission and was in absolutely showroom condition. The car was always garaged and rarely driven by the prior owner who sold it when he purchased a Pontiac Solstice Roadster. the Interior was gray and was perfect. It had the gray soft fabric seats with the factory stereo speakers on each side of your head within the headrest area on both seats. It had the stock Fiero Aluminum Wheels, and the original body style with the triple bead side black band which wrapped all the way around and front black "crash pads' like the ferrari. The body was the original metallic gray. I did few modifications to the car over the many years I owned it. I swapped the Factory Pontiac AM/FM Cassette Stereo for a slightly newer Pontiac AM/FM Cassette/CD with Equalizer. I believe it was out of a couple year newer Grand-AM, so it still resemble the stock Fiero unit. I installed dual 1 into 2 Chrome Exhaust tips which exited each side of the rear of the Fiero within the lower rear valance panel cutouts. I eventually replaced all 4 tires with wide profile raised white letter performance radials. I also modified a trailer hitch and installed it under the engine cradle to tow a trailer and brand new identical model replacement motorcycle to the prior wrecked one. Over the time I owned it I did rebuild the flip-up headlight motors due to a common failure with age. I also have repaired some for other Fiero Owners. Also just another tidbit... the name "Fiero" means "Proud Owner" in Italian I have heard...
I remember this car from back when people were actually driving them. I was a kid, but my father's best friend had one. What you have to do is see it in context. It's a goofy looking little thing now, but compared to what most cars looked like at the time, it really was pretty good looking. Personally, I never liked that wedge of pie look. Later my sister had a triumph TR7. After that, when it was my turn, I had a TR6. I am a TR6 kind of guy, when it comes to the looks of things. This car looks a lot like the TR7. It's not bad looking, it's just not my style.
The refreshed 1988 and up Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera had a prominent piece of black trim in the C pillar instead of a rear quarter window. I thought you were going to mention that.
The C-Pillar pseudo glass reminded me design wise of a Pantera, where the faux grill (intake) minimizes the C-Pillar and lengthens the side glass. I was very jazzed for 1st gen Fiero's when I saw the IMSA GTU version that made the Hot Rod/Car Craft rounds at the time. It looked really good and muscular with the flared bodywork.
12th gen (2008-14) F-150 (single cab only) also had the fake glass plastic thing too. You can see it on the Wikipedia article specifically for the 12th gen
1984 Indianapolis "500" Mile Race Pace Car...driven by John Callies, who worked for Pontiac Motor Division of GM for 21 years. His last 12 years with Pontiac was in the Pontiac Motor Sports section as manager. The Indy race pacing with the "Fiero" was, I guess, a challenge due to the engine size in the pace car. The front row of that "500" race had two out of three veteran drivers: Pole sitter, Tom Sneva; Rick Mears next to him, just "itchin' to get it on" and wondering: "Is this pace car fast enough to get out of our way at the start?" I was there at that race and thought, the pace car looks neat in style. (Rick Mears got that car among all his prizes and money...Wonder if he still has it after 40 years of winning the "500"?)
Take a shot every time GM kneecaps a car because it might hypothetically compete with the Corvette..
Especially if it was Pontiac idea.
I tried this and am now blind please send help
Are you trying to get us killed? 🤣
@@sterlinsilver thats from masturbating too much
Take me drink, I think I'm home~
I've owned an 87 Fiero GT for 15 years, it never fails to make me smile.
I bought one in 1984 as my first new car. I still own it to this day with only 77k miles on it. White SE (similar to the one in the picture, but with a sunroof.) Mine was actually manufactured in October of 1983.
Sir, love it like it's your wife. No, wait! NO, love it like it's you!
13 inch Rims????
@@2148aa No, mine is an SE, so it has the cast aluminum 14" wheels like the red one in the video.
@williamsteele That was the car I learned about regional differences. 1986 iron Duke engine shipped to the Midwest only got 13 inch steal wheels. 5 speed manual had no speed control. Rebuilding the retractable headlights became a cottage industry
when you die can I have it?
I had a 1985 Fiero with a 5 speed. I loved it.
These were awesome. I remember when they came out.
The parts bin aspect of it always blew me away. They used a lot of parts that already existed, usef on other cars, to build something that a lot of people thought was an attractive car without spending a lot of money
I rear-ended a Fiero on the way home in the mid 80's. The driver came out and was having a hissy-fit. I explained that I was fully insured and calmed him down.
Helping him pick up at least 4 body panels, he explained to me he had just purchased the car that morning.
Thanks
I don't blame him either , he had a right to have a dummy spit !
Christmas 1983 I got an about 1/16 scale New Bright remote control Fiero, everything opened and all the lights including the pop-up headlights worked. Guzzled batteries and light shone through the plastic "body" panels (including the backs of the headlights) but it was an awesome toy at age 9.
Sometimes I wish I could go back and experience my early 80s Christmases again. Atari, hot wheels, RC cars, small TV for my room, cassettes with my favorite music for my Walkman, etc, etc.
I had a Richard Petty NASCAR RC car that was fun, and I took the rubber tires off the wheels so it would slide around on the kitchen floor (like it was supposed to at those speeds).
My wife fell in love with them. We subsequently bought an 88 model year. Must have been something wrong with it because everyone else was complaining of theirs breaking down and other reliability issues and that car lasted and lasted without any heavy duty issues. It was fun to drive and quick if not overall fast. I'm of the belief that GM cancelled that car too soon. With quality issues behind them and finally putting in a banger of an engine with that V6 and adding a special c-pillar design for the GT the car was hot.
Cancelled just after GM sorted it out. Looked the business.
That seems like GM's operational doctrine.
"Sir we fixed the auto-ignition issue"
"Good, now CANCEL IT"
GM being GM.
Typical GM, dropping cars the year they become ‘right’
Typical of GM, unfortunately.
I got a job working as a file clerk for an engineering company that had the Fiero program back in 1983. This job led into a drafting apprentice position and then pivoted back and forth between design and engineering for 38 years. I will always love the Fiero for getting me my start.
Entech?
@@RareClassicCars 989 Chicago Road, Troy Mi. Part of my job was runner (inter office mail) which allowed me to network. The owner, George Millidrag and lead Engineer Hulki Adachi were kind, funny and incredibly smart. Every Friday, after lunch I was also tasked with hitting the local bars to try and talk draftsmen to return to work. The amount of on the job drinking, gambling and drug use back in those days would be unbelievable by today's standards.
I always thought that the Oldsmobile Quad 4, that came out in 1987 would have been the best engine for the Fiero. Being a 4 cyl it would have been more compact than the 2.8 V6 and at 180 hp., it beat the 100 hp Iron Duke and the 150 hp V6. I suspect that, once again, GM was concerned that another division was threatening the Corvette.
Sales just went down. It was time to move on. That’s all.
@@HunterB738 Toyota MR2 more or less killed Fiero...when people notice how much better MR2 was.
The Quad4 looked good on paper, but because GM wouldn’t spring for balance shafts most people hated it in reality. So it would have turned the Fiero into a slightly faster tractor.
hell yea, my brother had a Grand Am GT with the Quad 4 & it was a reat little runner
The Quad Four was a problematic engine in a number of ways. Of course it suffered the typical new engine reliability problems. But it also wasn't a very compact engine. The 60 degree V6 may have been a more compact engine. It also suffered from having a number of sub systems in none standard positions. GM tried putting them in a special run Pontiac model, only to discover that there was no way to remove the oil filter when it needed to be changed. I have a friend that spent a summer opening up the passenger side foot well and installing an access hatch to remove the oil filter. All those cars had white interiors, and the oil filter had to be passed through the passenger foot well to remove. I wonder how much warranty work GM did to replace stained carpet?
Still have and drive my 1987 Pontiac Fiero. This was my first new car back in the day. The Fiero has always been a sharp looking car. I’m glad there are many people today that take an interest in them.❤
Once they got them sorted out they were very good cars but once they sorted them out they discontinued them.
GM did that to soooo many cars.
I remember a review of the GT saying how the heavier V6 reduced the ideal near 50/50 weight balance, something Toyota MR2 got around by adding a turbo.
A friend shoehorned a 350 ci Chevy engine into his. The biggest challenge - getting the wiring correct. Good looking car, but I always thought the wheel openings were too big. I like the way the angle of the leading edge of the C pillar (just past the 'glass') leads down to about where the rear axle is. Makes for a very balanced look. Thanks for posting.
C8 Corvette also has a fake plastic piece mimicking glass although much smaller. Miata hard top also has the same.
Those are still some of my favorite wheels.
I don’t believe they “rotated” the X car cradle 180 degrees to make the P car but rather brought it straight back to the rear of the vehicle. The drive belts are on the passenger side of both the front drive cars and the rear drive Fiero.
That's right. Not rotated, straight back.
That's what I was thinking, because rotating it would have required a different transmission.
This is the 2nd time Adam has stated this incorrect fact. He also mentioned it in his 1st Fiero video, and was corrected by many in the comments. This 180-degree rumor has been around since the car was new.
Adam, you are smarter than this! 😊
Agree
You are correct; the engine and its cradle were not turned around when placed in the Fiero. The difference is, on the Fiero, it has the rest of the car ahead of the engine instead of behind it. Water pump on the right, transmission on the left, etc. The other major issue with the video is the comment about the "Lotus" suspension. The '88 Fiero actually uses the original designed-by-Pontiac suspension design which was shelved for a few years in order to cut costs. The "Suspension by Lotus" rumor is exactly that - a rumor.
Me and my Mechanics teacher built an 88 GT. We use a 3.0L Pontiac Super Duty, with a DOHC head we got out of the US. It had Bosch mechanical fuel injection, with 4 throttle bodies, and a header that dumped in to 4 Supertrap mufflers to keep it quiet. We were pushing over 300HP at the rear wheels.
@@CMDR_CLASSIFIED Sounds wicked
2:44. The early Fieros wouldn't have disappointed if Pontiac had been allowed to offer the Super Duty version of the 4 cylinder. I believe I've read about a 2.7 and a 3.0 they built, one of them produced 300 HP if memory serves me right. A magnesium block at one point. 🤘 hell yeah, Pontiac engineers could always do amazing things, if allowed to, with what they had to work with
Friend's dad built one with a 3.4 dohc engine/transmission out of a Z34 Lumina. Was a beast. Also built a 3.3 liter Camry/Solara powered 2nd gen MR2.
Instilled a love of mid engined cars in me. Have a 914 and will own a Renault Alpine some day...
The Super Duty 4 is still an impressive engine even by today's standards. IIRC a detuned version was used in the actual Fiero pace car, and but was able to handle 500 HP out of the box.
@@HAL-dm1eh I know😂,in the 80s, it was like, GM told Pontiac : you're not building V8s anymore, and the Pontiac guys said, we're not just quitting as far as performance. (I've got a lot of old HPP mags)
I've never even heard of a super duty 4... What was it based on?
@@marko7843 It was based on the Iron Duke 2.5L 4 that was in the original Fiero. It was an amazingly built block/head that accepted all original Iron Duke parts, but could rev to 10,000 rpm's with solid lifters, living all day at 8K.
GM allowed Pontiac to put four of them in the actual Fiero pace cars (said to have around 232 hp), but GM then took and keeps those pace cars under tight wraps to this day, and wouldn't let Pontiac offer any in production vehicles.
That amount of hp wasn't half of what the engine could do, and those Fieros still made jokes out of Chevy's 205 hp/5.7L front engine Corvettes.
The blocks et al were subsequently produced and sold to racers and enthusiasts only, who happily paid top dollar for them and had lots of fun with turbos and nitrous, and some just building them to 200-300 hp in street Fieros.
But the engines still remained rare and you'd be lucky to find one today.
I was an architect designer at the time of the Fero. Spandrel fake glass was extremely popular as a design detail on buildings, appliances etc. So the Fero with imitation glass was normal and popular as a design choice.
The "fake black plastic" behind the doors that kind of looks like a window reminds me of the hatchback Mustang's from the late-80's. Those do have some actual light pass-through but a lot of that was just glass in front of the C-pillar.
I came here to say the same thing. Also the earlier fox-body Mustangs had fake louvers prior to the black glass.
Fun fact: That "black plastic trim" triangle was made of actual glass on the '84 models.
And plenty of hood scoops back in the day were completely non-functiinal. Lots of trim in cars is used to improve the look.
Yep, as a Fox-body Mustang owner I came looking for this. There was actually glass back there but then a plastic sail panel to make the C-pillar look smaller than it was. On later versions the panel and window were one piece of glass.
@@jamesalexander5246 Fake vents are back in style. The Civic is one of the worst offenders.
Adam, LOVE your channel but you are smarter than this! 😊
- Twin bumper pads are the obvious homage to Pontiac split grill.
- Powertrain slid straight back, not 180 degrees. Trans & belts are on the same respective sides as FWD cars. You also mentioned this in your last Fiero video and people corrected it in the comments.
- Lotus not involved in final year suspension design. It was Pontiac’s original 1983 design that was shelved by bean counters.
These urban legends have been around since the car was new and have been debunked by the Fiero design team for decades. As evidence, there are speaking events, shows, videos, interviews, books, magazines, etc…
Keep up the good work, just maybe correct these items on Fieros going forward. 🙂
I currently own an 88 Duke and an 88 Formula. The fake glass plastic area behind the side glass DID HAVE A FUNCTION!... It was the fresh air exit vent for the HVAC system.
I like how the strip becomes the door handle.
These were awesome! They came out in 1984 when I graduated from high school and I wanted one bad~!
(Well, that and an '82 Toyota Supra....)
Dad laid down three facts to me: 1. This was a brand new car and since my college was going to be expensive, a new car was out of the question. 2. This was a first year GM product and as such it would be more than good to STAY AWAY. Let others be the "guinea pigs" 3. The very last thing that a college kid needs is a two seat car. A college student needs a minivan or a station wagon, since they move around a lot. He was completely right.
What did I buy in March of 1984? A Bali green '77 Volkswagen Rabbit two door. That really was the best car for me since it had tons of room and got 40 mpg on the highway. The 9.6 second 0-60 times were entertaining too, especially when I embarrassed my friends in their big American cars, even ones with (stock, or course) 455's!
But I still loved the notion of a mid engine car, and in 2018 I traded my '85 Porsche 928S2 5 speed for a Guards Red '14 Cayman S. It is a fantastic car, runs mid 12 second quarter mile times, can go 178 mph, and gets 31 mpg on the highway courtesy of the 2976 pound curb weight. Honestly, the only thing I don't like about my red Cayman is the fact that I have nothing to tinker with; With the 928 there was always something non-essential to mess with and the engine was easy to access. Honestly? If I had the garage space I would buy another 928 or a Fiero or an early MR2 just to tinker with.
Great video!
The rear trim idea is still being used on my C8. It works!
You mean 2nd gen Fiero.
@jeffmellow kinda sorta!
@@jeffmellow actually there WAS a second gen Fiero, but they never built it. Good subject for a video…….😉😂
@@Glasscitycarnerd You see what's left of it every time you see one of the cab forward 90s Camaro/Firebirds. Coincidentally, there was a rare Camaro of that generation named the Callaway C8.
Own a 4th Gen Trans Am and I can kinda see it now that you mention it. @@HAL-dm1eh
Owned one when they came out in '84. Had another one 10 years later. Just recently bought another with 47000 original miles, garage kept its whole life. Loved these cars
Fox body Mustangs did the same trick on the C-pillar. While it did have a window, it was tiny and the remaining portion was plastic on 79-86 and a glass panel on 87-93.
Came here to say this. The 87+ Fox Body Mustangs used the same trick by blacking out much of the rear quarter glass and the earlier models disguised the area as a fake plastic vent or louver.
I had a red 86 just like the one in the initial shots back in the high school, and I felt like I was driving a Ferrari. A very slow Ferrari, mine had the Iron Duke and auto. I'd love to have an 88 GT now.
my sister had a red four-banger with the iron duke and it was a blast to drive
Don’t believe I’d have told that😆
@@garysarratt1 see what you did there. hahaha
Right on time, I just bought one last week!
I had one for a time. It was a four banger, but still plenty of fun. One memory is when I and four of my grown sons crammed ourselves into it for a short drive.
The comment about The black plastic imitating the look of black glass has another function also. At one end, it curves in and openings can be seen. These openings are for the interior flow through air ventilation system that all cars have these days. This car has no hatch and the interior ends at the back of the seats. This is where the air exits the car.
My wife had the 84 just like your first picture. Comments: No power steering means she built up good arm strength. Bad in winter with wide tires it wouldn’t turn, just plow straight ahead. Beautifully designed. Red with the tan cloth interior. Unique feature I remember is the stereo speakers in each headrest. Engine overheating issue (the TPS) caused by a late change in the engine cover to address water intrusion and what GM considered as bad aesthetics of seeing thru the vents which ultimately caused us 4 or more TPS in just a few years time. No lemon law back then, but my wife just loved that car. (Pre-kids era). Got her an 8 passenger Safari van when kids came along! Thanks again for these great videos.
I loved my 85 V6 SE Fiero loaded with a 4spd in silver. She was a sweet ride for the day
Wasn't enthusiastic about them at the time ... but time has made them awesome.
What is very interesting is that the transverse 4.9 Cadillac V8 from the 1986 Sedan Deville fits in the engine bay perfectly and even uses the same frame mounts as the 2.8 V6. Plus, the engine doesn't weigh much more than the 2.8 but the V8 transforms this car into a real Corvette performer.
Thank you Adam. The 1990-1996 Grand Prix sedan especially in STE trim before 1997 did not have a split grille. The 1994-1995 Pontiac Bonneville did not have a split grille either. The Cadillac CT5 has black trim like that to make the c-pillar look thinner. Thank you for the video.
Yes, I was going to mention the CT5 as well
“Reliability” has never been an adjective associated with Renault in general.
Many SUVs black out the B or C pillar to make it look like more glass area. The current Suburban has a blacked out aft door window frame to make the rear window look bigger, and the C-pillars look thinner.
2 in one day!? The man is a machine!
I bought a red 84 that was on the side of the road for sale for like $2500 around 1999. I loved the headlights and the size. I took off the black grills and re-painted them; they looked great. I didn't know about the triangle trim and it being only visual. It would look funny without it. Problem was, it was hard to get in and out of. I had to hoist myself out of it and I just got tired of it (my other vehicle was a Jeep Wrangler, go figure). I'm an auto detailer and a client has 2 corvettes; one is a 2025 Z51. They both also have a non-functioning triangle behind the window. I noticed it and asked myself why it was like that? Now I know it's just style, since there's no back seat. Thank you!
Bought it brand new 1984 right out of showroom window. It got more thumbs up driving than anything I've owned. It was reliable but the iron Duke 4 wheezy and slow. Rode like a lumber truck. Heavy for small car but actually fun to drive
The 1984 design hasn't aged at all. It is still a beautiful piece of automotive art. It has very few aesthetic flaws, compared with Ferraris, Lambos and the like.
In my opinion, GM ruined the original design with the GT big wings, air dams and "snowplow" bumpers that were slapped on it to make it look more agressive to the performance fans.
I like both versions. Our original design was very clean. Have you ever seen these with nice wheel well filling wheels and the right stance? There won't be another like this one.
My dad had an ‘85 and I got to drive it quite a few times. It was a FUN car to drive. Not fast…but cornering was a blast!
I had one for several years and loved it. The power was definitely the biggest complaint. And only one i can think of
My parents live across the street from the Pontiac chief executive in charge of the program at the time. Was fortunate to be able to see all the Fiero prototypes and racing versions he brought home. Never wanted one, but they could have been awesome.
My ex-father-in-law, Ron Rogers was the one of the project managers along with his boss Jay Wetzel on this vehicle. He brought home several prototypes for evaluation and I was able to drive quite a few. Including the Corvette killer with the turbo charged motor that had as much HP as a Vette. Wow!
I had a new red '88 GT V6 auto & man was that thing fun to drive, like a go-kart! Only kept it 4 yrs & now regret selling it! Really love that yellow BMW 2002 in the background, my uncle had a blue '69 when I was still living in Bavaria Germany 1965-1975 ✌💖☮
I believe that GM called the composite body panels "enduroflex". It was funny hearing the Tech 4 powerhouse in these cars. You have to be careful when racking or jacking these cars due to the poorly protected coolant pipes that ran up to the front. The dealership I worked at had to replace the lines on occasion due to improper jacking by the owner.
I had the 85 2m4 SE in silver. Aside from the lack of power, for a 6 foot driver the seats were too upright for real comfort, especially as low as the sitting position was, (Imagine a go cart), not the "fall into the car" sports car driving position. The fit and finish were typical for the time, pretty bad. My family also had a first year Citation. I recognize the dog bone engine support in both cars. As an "immobilizer" on the Fiero at least, I remember it was pretty easy to take with you the central distributor cable -if memory serves. We took it on several +100 mile road trips and had a lot of fun with it.
Miata ND retractable hardtop as well
I had a flashback when the Alliance convertible came up. The first car I ever bought at 16 years old was a garnet red one with a tan top. Not actually a bad car just a little quirky. I had to either buy my own car or drive a truck my parents owned. That was a 1968 Chevy with a “3 on the tree” and no power steering. Actually, 34 years later, the truck is still around but the Renault is long gone!
We all need to learn painful lessons when we are young with the hope we will put them to use in our maturity. 😉
I wanted one of these so badly when they were new.
I had 3 Fieros (not at the same time). I had an 86 w/2.5/5-speed, which I put 100k miles on. Sold that to a guy for $2500 plus another Fiero (an 85 w/2.5/4-Speed), which I sold to my cousin for $1000. Lastly, I picked a really nice 87 GT/Auto, which had a little scoop on that side air inlet. I never noticed any noise from those. I kinda wished I could have tried out a GT 5-speed (preferably an 88), but no joy.
I never had any real issues with any of them. The 87 had a hard starting issue that I resolved with a new air inlet sensor.
The 2015 Toyota Camry has similar black plastic trim to mask the shape/size of the c-pillar.
Came here to say that. They kept the pre-facelift (2012-'14) XV50's doors but wanted to make it less obvious. Almost certainly the most widespread (in the sense of number produced) case of "DLO FAIL," to use Hagerty contributor Sajeev Mehta's term.
@@tomanderson6335I had forgotten all about DLO fail. Good call out!
Pontiac similarly added a black plastic piece to the C-pillar of the 1989-1991 6000's (the very one shown in the video @2:20) when they gave it a less angular appearance.
I’m pretty sure the Camry is just black paint, not plastic. The black paint idea was used on the later GM A-bodies, and then much later, the Camry as you mention. It looked awful in both of those cases.
I loved that car!
6:40 It's commonly called a sail panel, because it looks like a sail on a ship. The 84's had glass ones, later years were plastic.
The all-around rub strip bisecting the vehicle is also a Ferrari signature of the era. But GM can lay claim to it too, since the Stingray started the Corvette idea of a very strong character line dividing upper and lower body.
I love that Pontiac designers incorporated the rub strip, both reflectors, the door handle, and the door lock in this line. I'm amazed more designers - old and new - don't try to consolidate/minimize the clutter like this. Well done.
And the fake rear quarter window lives on in the Miata RF (targa) of today.
Adam, I remember reading a while back there's a hidden bunker somewhere full of 1989 Fiero's that were produced then hidden when the program was cancelled. I have no idea if that's true. If anyone can find it, it's you!
I visited a Pontiac dealership when the Fiero first came out that had the most amazing seat covering. It was beautiful curly sheepskin in the center of the seat and back with a fabric/suede on the side. Now that is something I would like to see come back.
Thanks so much for doing this one! I was in middle-school in Detroit, MI when the Fiero debuted, and remember it clearly! Too bad that Hulki Aldikacti has passed on, it would have been great to interview him on this one. I can't wait to see more on the technical aspects. I love your channel!
Adam may have missed the chance, but Hulki had spoken at many national Fiero events over the years. ua-cam.com/video/-DbRHF1FBSE/v-deo.html
I would say that the twin black horizontal pads on the front bumper are a "nod" to the split grill theme. Thanks for highlighting what really is an attractive and unique car!
Awesome. I remember as a teenager when the Fiero came out, I didn’t like the C pillar (the trim piece is great, I’m talking about the whole cut off angled look. I sat down and sketched out some ideas of how I thought it should look. My sketches ended up looking remarkably similar to the direction GM went with designing the GT version! But, here we are 40 years later and I prefer the original design, lol. Looks sharp without pretentiousness.
Loved the fiery from the moment it came on the scene. Styling masterpiece inside and out and even 40 years later still looks modern. As a hs student when they came out, obviously couldn’t afford one, but now own a low mile 84 Indy Fiero for about 15 years now. Coming out of malaise Gm just didn’t have a proper sporting engine to equip the fiero. Thanks for helping to celebrate a great Pontiac achievement
I drove an early base model with the "Iron Duke" and a manual transmission. Its performance was on par with other small bore sports cars. I enjoyed driving it.
Loved my 88 Fiero I bought new off the lot in late 1989… nobody wanted them by then. It only had the 2.5 4cyl but the 5 speed made it a fun commuter car.
You had an 88 Fiero gt! I also had an 88 Fiero GT! Such a fun little car to own and drive
My 86GT was my first car in 2012. Still have it. I love that car.
I actually swapped in power 987 seats into it.
I was one of 2 Pontiac mechanics at a multiple brand dealership back in the late 80's-to the late 90's when we sold the brand. I still have nightmares...
Me too!! What a pile these were. Did pay for my first house!
I worked at Pontiac dealer as tech, when these were new. Absolute nightmare of problems. Cracked blocks, clutch failures, parking brake stuck,drive-ability issues, check engine lights, oil leaks trans problems. And of course the famous fire recall. I still have memories of all 12 bays in the shop with red Fieros on every lift. We would have so many apart at the same time, that we had to mark the boxes of disassembled engines with customers name. On a brighter side of things, it paid for my first house!
My 1979 Ford Mustang (Fox body) had a similar trim behind the side windows. The Mustang’s version used a plastic matte black louvered piece as opposed to the Fiero’s glass like application. In later years, Ford changed this to more of a gloss, faux window like piece as in the Fiero. My first new car was a 79 Mustang and I recall being so impressed with those louvers. Although they didn’t serve a single functional purpose.
I worked a used car lot back in the 80's We had a 84 Fiero with a check engine light on. It cost me a large pizza to find out where the diagnostic connector was at. (You have to look it up for your self, or, I will tell you for a pizza!
Under ashtray or cigar lighter panel within centre console.
Interesting 🧐
I know where it is.... What a PIA to plug in the scanner!
Would love to hear more about the Fiero:
- The engineering problems with the shortened Iron Duke oil pan.
- The crazy number of fires.
- Getting killed because the redesign handled better than the Vette.
- The last Pontiac produced in Pontiac.
So fun to drive one of these, had two back in the 90's. Little hedder wrap fixed the fire issue dunno why GM could not just do a recall and fix them but they didn't.
Had my dream car, an 86 with a 2.5
I've had a few Fieros. Mine were pretty reliable cars. Fun to drive.
Great video 👏🙏👍
It is unfortunate what happened to GM.
GM competed neck to neck with Pontiac Fiero and Toyota MR2…but nowadays, GM can’t even compete with Hyundai! What happened to GM? They have become disastrous brand for small engine manufacturing. Not one small displacement engine that GM makes are reliable nowadays.
GM is basically Stellantis.
@@manoman0maybe nowadays but back in the late 80s and early 90s….GMs were the better domestic brand.
@@Thankyou_3 Absolutely so! Except for their halo cars. They're always brilliantly made.
My Dad bought one of these new when they first came out. I was a kid and loved riding in that car.
The 1994 Impala SS had a black trim piece over the lower back corner of the rear window to give it a sleeker look.
Regarding the "fake" rear side windows - Ford used something similar on their 1979-86 Mustangs and Capris behind their rear side glass - they had fake louvers there, and on some trims this was painted black to help minimize the size of the C-pillars. Weirdly, on other trims it was body colored.
BTW: My "dream" car is a 1985 Fiero 2M4/SE with a sunroof, and a Pontiac LT3 2.0L Turbo engine swap and a 5 speed manual. Someday, I'll make it!
the '84 model year as shown had the best front in end add the fast back of the later years and the design is nearly perfect.
I worked in the design department of GM’s small car group. The most impressive part of the Fiero IMO was the drill/mill fixture that located all the panel fastener holes. The welded space frame was located in the fixture with a mix of datum’s and then all the holes were drilled and the surface around those holes were milled to provide a “pad” that the sheet molded compound panels rested on when mounted. Absolutely state of the art precision and repeatability. Also, since the body panels have little structural duty, the car allowed for rapid styling changes without any impact to the vehicle’s structural integrity. A great concept but watered down to satisfy the bean counters that ran things back then.
Automotive companies should be managed by engineers and designers, not accountants…
4th interesting lateral element: the door latch…totally integrated into the longitudinal car-length strip.
I got an 85 Fiero with a carseat in the middle broken down on the interstate. I'm a lowlife and I'm lovin' it.....
I had the '85' 2m6 model in black. Loved car, wish I still had it
A 1986 base model Fiero was my first new car, and one of only two vehicles I ever bought new. It was a wonderful car, and a whopper of a deal for the price. It looked like a Ferrari, and could be bought for under $10K OTD. Mine was gold metallic. 2.5L /5 speed. It was a base model with pretty much no options. It came with plastic wheel covers. Within the first year I had it, I got the 14" alloy wheels like the ones on that red one, and had the oem luggage rack installed on the rear lid. The Fiero was actually a very high quality car, the SMC body panels fit and lined up perfectly, due to the Space Frame design. The steering and suspension was nothing special, the front came from the Chevette, the rear suspension, along with the engine, transmission, and rear subframe came from the front wheel drive Chevy Citation, just flipped around. Driven as it was designed to be driven, as a commuter car, it was just fine. I kept that car for 9 years, and over 150,000 miles. I only got rid of it because I needed a vehicle with a rear seat. I never had a single problem with it. The interior was somewhat unique, it also looked like something you would find in an Italian exotic. It had a very high and wide center console, giving you the feeling you were in an aircraft of spaceship. It reminded me of the first generation Lotus Esprit Turbo. The gas tank was below that console, which was why it was so large. If you want pretty much all the information that is available on the Fiero, and its unique design, I suggest reading the book "Fiero: Pontiac's Potent Mid Engine Sports Car" by Gary Witzenburg.
I call this the “mother” of the C8 corvette
I remember reading MT when the Fiero was launched. They explained that division in the black rub strip in the front was done as a nod to Pontiac's split grille.
I've seen recent Toyota Camrys that gave a piece of black trim that makes the shape of the rear door / fixed window look bigger.
There cant be too many nice ones around with the 6 cyl , collectability wise thinking a fun entry level car that appreciates in value { maybe } 🤔.
I owned a 1982 S-10 pickup. It had the 2.8L V-6. It was relatively reliable, but was sorely lacking in HP. The engine blew a rod somewhere around 89,000 miles. I had a rebuilt one put in and it lasted till the rest of the truck rusted away and all the peripheral hydraulic lines, gas line, vacuum lines etc... all began leaking. 80's were not a good decade for GM vehicles generally speaking.
GM did that plastic glass imitation here in Europe too. Opel Rekord E2 has that on C-pillar to look more classy.
Here is some interesting information I have gathered over the years as a Fiero Enthusiast, and huge Fan..
The rear "pillar window" was actually glass on the '84 and changed to plastic afterward.
I owned a mint condition '85 Fiero SE 2M6 (2 seat/Mid Engine/6 Cylinder). I liked the original style body more than the later "GT" style body with "sailwings", more rounded front end without the black "crash pads" like ferrari 308's had, and taller tail lights . To me the earlier body more resembles an Italian sports car. the SE had the 2.8 V6, and most of the available options, like A/C, Cloth Seats, Upgraded Stereo with headrest speakers, 4 speed transmission, and sunroof. I am not sure if all SE Models came equipped like this though. The original Fiero and later 4 Cylinder models were designated 2M4.
Another interesting fact was the sunroof could be removed completely and stowed under the hood in front above the spare tire. there was also a trim piece "air deflector" stowed up there to snap into the roof at the front of the open sunroof opening when the sunroof was removed. I owned my Fiero for awhile before I realized the Sunroof could be removed by squeezing the buttons on either side of the latches, but didn't really know where to place it after removal. It wasn't until watching a UA-cam video of a mechanic working on one, and saw him place it under the hood on the pads designed to hold it. There was also cushioning under the hood to hold it in place while traveling.
Pontiac closed a manufacturing plant in Michigan to retrofit to build the "Space frame" and assemble the vehicle. This space frame was robotically welded together, dipped for corrosion prevention and all the body panel mounting points robotically machined and drilled to ensure precise consistent fit of the panels, hood and deck lid.
The original "Iron Duke" 4 Cylinder vehicles were recalled and a "Heat Shield" retrofit was installed due to the high number of engine fires.
The Engineer who was the driving force behind the Fiero development was a heavy smoker, that's why it was designed with 2 ashtrays with flip up lids, one on each side of the console.
GM contracted with a outside company "Corporate Concepts" in Capac Michigan after the V6 was first introduced in the Fiero to design a "Re-Body" for the vehicle. Magnum P.I. was popular then and the Ferrari 308GT was chosen as the basis for it. After almost 2 years of Clay Work and Design Work the MERA was born in 1987. A total of 88 Brand New Fiero GT's were converted to MERA's the first year, and 159 were converted in '88 using the Fiero Formula model new vehicles, with the total number produced of 247. Also in 1988 Cromadora of Italy was used to make Replica Aluminum Ferrari wheels for the Fiero 5 bolt hubs. Chromadora had at one time cast wheels for Ferrari. The earlier '87 MERA's had stock Fiero Rims painted to match the body color. The Mera was sold at Pontiac Dealers only as a new car, and no kits were sold. They Even had Ferrari Badges on the hood! The MERA was not endorsed by GM but was a Pontiac Dealer Option similar to ordering a conversion van. The MERA sold for about $24,00 to $28,000 depending on the options, just shy of the cost for a new Corvette at the time. All of the Ferrari 308-328 Fiero based later "Kit Cars" were molded off a MERA, or other Kit Car which was Molded off the MERA. Many other "Kit Cars" have been built resembling Lamborghinis and other exotics.
In 1989 a new Fiero Prototype was developed with more futuristic design and many engine options considered. It was rumoured that a V8 version is likely what killed the Fiero Model, as it would compete with GM's Flagship Corvette with excellent performance lighter weight and the suspension improvements developed by Lotus.
The '84 to '88 Fieros were nearly a perfect 50/50 front to rear weight ratio, and had incredible corner to corner rigidity due to the "Spaceframe" design. The Fiero could be driven without any body panels as they provided no structure. The Fiero was also the platform to develop the plastic "EnduraFlex" body panels, and composite plastic hood and trunk lid. light metal was incorporated into the truck lid structure to prevent RF Noise Interference over the AM/FM Stereo as the inner fender wells and front firewall/rear "trunk" cavity were metal and created a "Faraday Cage" around the Engine's Ignition System preventing this Interference. GM later used the plastic body technology on Saturn Vehicles and it led the way to more wider use industry wide.
The follow up to the Fiero was the 2005 to 2010 Pontiac Solstice Roadster using a front engine/rear wheel drive 2.4L Inline 4 Cylinder, and 2007 to 2010 Saturn Sky Roadster using a front engine/rear wheel drive 2.4L 177 HP Inline 4 Cylinder and 260 HP 2L Inline Turbo 4 Cylinder. An optional dealer installed MAP Sensor and ECM Flash upgrade was available for the 2L making 290HP. Both the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky used the Kappa automobile platform. The Wilmington Assembly plant in Delaware where these were manufactured closed in 2009 after both Pontiac and Saturn Roadster Models were retired.
I was in the Inland Empire Fiero Club and saw an '88 GT Fiero with a Cadillac Northstar V8 and a Cadillac Allante Intake System. It was incredibly quick! many others used the Turbo Charged 3.8 Liter GM V6 which was almost a drop in conversion into the Engine Cradle. Still others used Chevy V8s. Our Club had a good number of Members, and it was always incredible to see the long line of Fiero's driving to and from the Events and Meets. Then the rows of them parked most with the hood and decklids raised showing off the many modified and some completely stock versions. We definitely drew a lot of attention!
I was forced to sell my '85 SE several years back and have missed the car greatly since. I bought it in 2006 after a motorcycle wreck which totalled my bike. The Fiero had 65K original miles, the 4 speed manual transmission and was in absolutely showroom condition. The car was always garaged and rarely driven by the prior owner who sold it when he purchased a Pontiac Solstice Roadster. the Interior was gray and was perfect. It had the gray soft fabric seats with the factory stereo speakers on each side of your head within the headrest area on both seats. It had the stock Fiero Aluminum Wheels, and the original body style with the triple bead side black band which wrapped all the way around and front black "crash pads' like the ferrari. The body was the original metallic gray. I did few modifications to the car over the many years I owned it. I swapped the Factory Pontiac AM/FM Cassette Stereo for a slightly newer Pontiac AM/FM Cassette/CD with Equalizer. I believe it was out of a couple year newer Grand-AM, so it still resemble the stock Fiero unit. I installed dual 1 into 2 Chrome Exhaust tips which exited each side of the rear of the Fiero within the lower rear valance panel cutouts. I eventually replaced all 4 tires with wide profile raised white letter performance radials. I also modified a trailer hitch and installed it under the engine cradle to tow a trailer and brand new identical model replacement motorcycle to the prior wrecked one. Over the time I owned it I did rebuild the flip-up headlight motors due to a common failure with age. I also have repaired some for other Fiero Owners.
Also just another tidbit... the name "Fiero" means "Proud Owner" in Italian I have heard...
The 1987-93 Mustang also used that C pillar black out. Sort of. The window had a sizeable blacked out area to make that C pillar look smaller.
I remember this car from back when people were actually driving them. I was a kid, but my father's best friend had one.
What you have to do is see it in context. It's a goofy looking little thing now, but compared to what most cars looked like at the time, it really was pretty good looking.
Personally, I never liked that wedge of pie look. Later my sister had a triumph TR7. After that, when it was my turn, I had a TR6. I am a TR6 kind of guy, when it comes to the looks of things.
This car looks a lot like the TR7. It's not bad looking, it's just not my style.
If you rotate a fwd front end reverse becomes forward and forward becomes reverse. Nothing was rotated.
The refreshed 1988 and up Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera had a prominent piece of black trim in the C pillar instead of a rear quarter window. I thought you were going to mention that.
The C-Pillar pseudo glass reminded me design wise of a Pantera, where the faux grill (intake) minimizes the C-Pillar and lengthens the side glass. I was very jazzed for 1st gen Fiero's when I saw the IMSA GTU version that made the Hot Rod/Car Craft rounds at the time. It looked really good and muscular with the flared bodywork.
12th gen (2008-14) F-150 (single cab only) also had the fake glass plastic thing too. You can see it on the Wikipedia article specifically for the 12th gen
1984 Indianapolis "500" Mile Race Pace Car...driven by John Callies, who worked for Pontiac Motor Division of GM for 21 years. His last 12 years with Pontiac was in the Pontiac Motor Sports section as manager.
The Indy race pacing with the "Fiero" was, I guess, a challenge due to the engine size in the pace car. The front row of that "500" race had two out of three veteran drivers: Pole sitter, Tom Sneva; Rick Mears next to him, just "itchin' to get it on" and wondering: "Is this pace car fast enough to get out of our way at the start?"
I was there at that race and thought, the pace car looks neat in style. (Rick Mears got that car among all his prizes and money...Wonder if he still has it after 40 years of winning the "500"?)