The Triumph Stag Didn't Deserve To Fail!
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- WIN with Lancaster Insurance: bit.ly/3LuyHeU
An Italian-styled British GT car with a glorious bespoke V8 engine should've been a runaway success, right? Not quite - the Triumph Stag lived a troubled life, consumed by an infamous reputation for unreliability and overheating, but is it a worthwhile classic prospect over 50 years later? Joe went for a drive in a gorgeous Mimosa Yellow Stag to find out...
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Thanks to Sherwood Restorations for loan of this car: sherwoodrestorations.co.uk/
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Chapters
0:00 All The Right Ingredients?
1:04 Michelotti Triumph Design
1:39 New Triumph Project
2:13 Styling & Design
2:41 Engine Development
4:26 Clever Convertible
5:03 It All Goes Wrong...
5:56 Overheating Issues
6:52 Left For Dead
7:25 Driving Impressions
8:23 The Charms Of The Stag - Авто та транспорт
Had my Stag since 2008. Absolutely love it. Manual , overdrive and the 3000 V8 engine.
A sunny day driving a convertible car seems a very long way away, sitting here in December. Great video Joe, full of knowledge and enthusiasm.
Thanks Paul, miss this day right now!
The Stag, 2000/2500, Dolomite and Spitfire/GT6 were fantastic looking cars, thanks to Michelotti - BL shouldn’t have retired the brand - it should have survived to make sporty saloon cars to compete with BMW, for whom Michelotti also worked as a design consultant.
We had a Dolomite when I was a child and even though it "only" had the 1850 engine it seemed like a rocket at the time.
I remember getting a (fairly large) splinter from one of the wood door cappings once and dad going mad at the dealership guy.
I was quite young but I think we came out with a new set of mats and a toy car in a box that I ended up with. 🤣
Also my first experience of red hot vinyl seats on a sunny day in shorts.
I loved that car but it did seem to hurt quite a lot.
Ah, still as beautiful today as it was then. So 1975 my dad comes into my room & is going to buy his first sports car & ask's me what I thought of the MG Midget, "oh that's great Dad". Once he left I said "now I have something to work with" It eventually came down to the TR-6 or TR-7. And being 1976 of coarse it has to be the latest and greatest flying wedge, you know"It's out to steal the American road" as it drives into its wedge shape garage. And the memories of me & my father driving through the winedy mountain roads of upstate New York with the Beatles red album playing in the 8 track player can never be equaled. And so began my life long love of all things British. And to put this in perspective, three things will be buried with me upon my passing, my Green Beret, my incredible dogs ashes & that very same Beatles 8 track. Now time to put a Beatles record on the old LP12 & give my desk top BBC monitors a workout...LS3/5A's, of coarse!
As a long time Stag owner I am intimately aware of its shortcomings and its very many positives. I have to say you didn't quite get all your technical facts quite right. Having said that, your ultimate impression and conclusion was right on the money and is why I still own mine and find it a hugely pleasurable and uplifting car to drive.
I fitted Stag bumpers on a Peugeot 305 years ago. The whole project was about, make. a hidious boring banger to a volant you can't really miss. And these bumpers smashed the whole project. There was no single name on the car, without changing a single swap in the complete bodywork. But looked so complete different. It also had BMW E12 double round headlights, front indicators of a Wartburg Knight and Door handles from a W115 Merc. And a different paintwork. That looked really great!
My dad had a Mark 1, 2.5 PI, when I was about 18. It was a beautiful car to drive.
The Mark 2, by comparison, lurched and lumbered its way around.
In 1976 as a 22 year old I was poised to buy a Stag, but my Father persuaded me to buy a 2000 TC! Still enjoyed the car that had a better back seat!!!!!
I've got a '74 Stag in French Blue. Original V8. Love driving it, nothing else sounds like a TR V8 ...it wants to rev, handles pretty well & looks great.
Nice to hear a positive review of one of the most beautiful cars ever made.....ok I am a bit biased😂
Can't imagine why you feel so strongly, Alastair... ;)
Always love seeing a Stag on the road. Beautiful car
Couldn't agree more!
There’s a surprising amount still on the roads - always good to see!
Well said that man!! I've owned my Stag for 43 years now and I love to drive it anywhere anytime ( not salty roads). the club (SOC) is excellent and there are any number of excellent engineers/companies that supply parts and services etc The can be made very reliable. mine is being use almost very day at present. Great Car. cheers Bob
Should have been as successful as it is now .. Great car.. needs to be appreciated.
Gorgeous car, but the biggest mistake was not giving the Stag the Rover V8, it was the perfect engine, unfortunately this was BL so of course it didn't get it.
So Enthusiastic owners can get them right wile BL couldn't. A pathetic company then.
Yes. BL had exactly the right engine ready to drop in, but "Not invented here" won the day. The Triumph developed engine was a disaster.
@@richardwilton722 it shouldn't have won the day, if they couldn't see that then they need to go out of business.
@@rob5944 It shouldn't have won but there was more to it than simply which engine is better. For a British brand to go for the US market with a US engine which was already out of date over there just wasn't going to work.
Remember the Stag launched @1970 - about two years after the SBC 350 was out - while the Rover (Buick) engine dated from the early 1950's.
Turning up with a shiny new car boasting pretty close to 20yr old engines wouldn't look great.
Of course they didn't have the hindsight to know the in-house engine was so bad either so the decision seems more reasonable when you see it from their perspective.
@@siraff4461 I don't agree, many engines stay in production for years if they're a proven design due to the high development costs. Moreover the V8 unit in question was modified quite a bit by Rover and, for example, it was a poor design choice placing a water pump on top like that. If you've a reliable, suitably sized engine readily available in your organisation then you use it, it would of saved thousands. B.L. failed to discipline it's management and get reliable cars to market, time and again. The Allegro, SD1, Marina, 1800 and Maxi are all examples of poorly executed projects. The U.S. market is vitally important and you have to nail it first time. We could never seem to mass produce cars, that's why there's no home grown brand left anymore and it's a crying shame.
What a beauty the Stag is that V8 burble so great to see a well preserved one in 2023 this one 50 years old M Reg 1973 😎😎😎
My Uncle had a '73 Stagg when I was a kid in the 80's...I loved ridin in that car...while stopped at a stop light, some drunk a*shole in an Oldsmobile station wagon rearended him doing over 40mph...hit him so hard it popped the hard top up in the air and it landed on top of the car stopped in the lane next to him...
Giovanni Michelotti created an iconic family identity for Triumph - upmarket, but affordable elegance - and it's ironic that both he and the last of the true Triumphs (Spitfire & Dolomite) met their ends in the same year - 1980.
I’ve always loved the Stag but have never owned or even driven one before. This video makes me very tempted to change that 👍
I owed a stag for 14 years during which time I totally rebuilt it and so I knew the car inside and out. I started to work week ends at the nearest stag centre to where I lived in order to learn how to look after a stag properly and how to repair and renovate .
The front suspension and steering were very good, the rear suspension was good BUT the sliding spline drive shafts should have been scrapped in favour of CV joints. The engine was a disaster inspired by plain managerial pig-headedness. One of the prototypes used the 2.5 litre straight six engine from the TR6 which had almost the same power as the V8 but was time served, more reliable and... more economical ( just).The auotmatic tended to be a bit soft but the manual /overdrive set up was a hit ( because it originated from the TR6). The electrics were fairly reliable but missed a few tricks on both the early cars and the later ones too.The good thing is that the straight 6 engine fits straight into the stag abd nates directly onto the stag gearbox. The straight 6 is also the right weight for the chassis and so the design of the syuspension doesnt need to be compromised. The much heralded rover V8 conversion results in issues with the engine having to sit too high and also the aluminium rover engine being too light for the chassis. Jaguar showed what could be done with a basically reliable straight six engine and Triumph should have followed suit. The unfortunate fact is the stag was actully much closer to the TR6 than the TR7 ever was and it would have been far more logical (with hindsight) to sell the stag as the TR7 and then introduce the awful BL hand baggy TR7 as the Stag.
As a kid in the mid 90's I remember a neighbour of my parents restoring one of these all through the 90's. I had moved out before he had finished it. Wonder if he ever did.
I remember as a teen, Cliff Mitchelmore driving around France for the Holiday programme. I've admired the Stag ever since. What class.
Its a shame BL was involved, but its a great classic now and as a previous owner of a mk1 for 12 years, once all the problems have been sorted its a great GT car. It was the V8 that made me buy one as i was looking at a TR6 at the time.
Most stags are well sorted now , we had these in the garages for maintenance, no problem whatsoever , it was the only car we drove the long way back to its owner , out of hundreds we drove stag was the best ,
I was driving a GT-6 that I had brought back from Germany. One of the most fun cars I ever owned. Just got married and needed a 4 passenger car and checked out the NEW Stag. Needed more engine and a hard top so went elsewhere.
Pride goes before a fall. With Triumph being in a division of Leyland which included the Rover marquee . They missed the opportunity to use the Rover 3500 V8 through pride . They wanted to develop their own V8 by marrying two fours together, which of course the years have shown was a bad idea.
If the Rover V8 had been used, The Stag would have have been an outstanding success. Triumph and Rover working together could have achieved a vehicle that may have saved Leyland.
Lovely car and another good video 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️👏👏👏
It sure is!
Stags we're not imported to Canada but a friend of mine got his hands on one in the 80's.
It definitely got a hell of a lot of attention
That particular Mimosa yellow would look even better with a black vinyl coating on the hardtop.
Is the Buick V8 engine reliable ?
Anyone else remember "Hazell" from 1978? He had two different white Stag T-tops.
Yes, played by Nicholas Ball. A good and fun series (and the car was good too).
A guy my unckle worked with converted two of these. He got both with boiled engines (though about a decade apart). One got the Rover V8 that "didn't fit" from a crashed Vitesse and the other a 2.0 Ford zetec from a crashed Focus.
No idea if either survives as that was in the 80's/90's but both were L reg - the V8 was maroon, the 2.0 dark blue.
Very interesting review of one of my favourite dream cars! Lovely MIMOSA yellow! When I re-decorate, I'm going to do one feature wall in my bathroom in that colour!
Now THAT'S a 70s style we can get behind!
A friend lent me his manual Stag for a few days back in 77 or 78. Loved the V8 sound. Sat at the lights on the way in from Heathrow I looked across to see where a large shadow had come from which blocked the sun from the open car. An enormous red six wheeler with “Hong Kong Airport” painted on the side. It had been doing its final tests at the airport and was being driven down to the docks. The lights changed to green and I put my foot down. The fire truck whooshed down the road and he beat me to the next set before turning off!
Well it only had 130HP
It’s a shame it did nt have rover v8 from day one it would have been a global success
How much outlay to maintain & keep a stag, absolutely gorgeous looking & sounding moter
Probably the most convincing argument in the Stag's favour is its survival rate of around 45%. For any car of any era that is very high, and for a 1970s car from a mainstream manufacturer it is indicative of the Stag's unique appeal. Most of the reliability problems were down to poor manufacturing in the day rather than poor design and can be overcome by properly rebuilding and maintaining the engine, together with a few modern upgrades for extra peace of mind (e.g. four core radiator, electronic ignition, header tank, upgraded timing chains). The gearboxes, drivetrain, suspension, brakes, steering were above average in the day and remain very good if well maintained. The bodywork is not much better or worse than any other car of its era and obviously needs protection and maintenance. A well sorted Stag really is a great classic car and will easily keep up with modern traffic. Personally I think the manual + overdrive is the best option, or possibly the upgraded H Jag ZF 4 speed auto conversion. I've had my Mk 2 manual for ten years and covered 30,000 miles, only trailored back once (worn viscous fan coupling). But don't buy any classic car until you've driven one, as you cannot compare against a modern car.
Bring it back with restomod
I Agree!
The Stag has a timeless look that makes you want one even after all these years.
I had both Mk1 and MK2 injection estates, the Stag was based on the MK2.
I realy liked my MK2 and it had an air of quality if you bought a good sample that
was lacking in other cars.
Would i buy a Stag today, if i could find a fully restored mint one with all the issues
sorted i wouldn't hesitate, a perfect weekend cruiser to enjoy for many more years.
Long live the Triumph Stag.
Well said!
Probably better to look at, chat about for a bit and let someone else have to live with it, like a lot of classics to be honest.
To Barbara Pape. My DREAM would be to have BOTH a STAG, and a (MK.2) TRIUMPH 2000 - because of the matching fronts!
I've just thought of something SEXY! Although I occasionally like these wheels on certain colours of Stags (like this one!), I generally like the flatter, not dished in wheels of the very first ones. BUT how about using ROSTYLE wheels they used to have on 1960's Cortina 1600E ' s?
@@nygelmiller5293 mk1 2000 every time!
I went straight to the sponsor’s website after watching this video. But it had been sold 😢
Is it any wonder when it's this nice? 👍🏻
@@ClassicsWorldUK Absolutely not. It would have been worth every penny
It would be awesome if Triumph revived their car production, starting with remaking the Stag to todays engineering standards.
Their modern classic motorcycle (Bonneville) range sell very well.
As a biker, couldn't agree more! -Joe
Different companies - Triumph cars developed out of the Standard car company, who bought the bankrupt Triumph cars brand in 1944.
@simonhodgetts6530 well, we use our imagination for 21st century Triumph to take over the name. Would they even have to buy anything (business name wise). The car company hasn't existed for a long time
Completely different company to the motorcycle one. I think BMW own the Triumph name these days.
I just wish that quality of manufacturing was more highly regarded in Blighty. It's a recurring theme that has been experienced so often and in so many different industries.
That said, it is a lovely looking car.
It depends on the sector and product. We are very good at low volume high end objects - boots and shoes, suits and ties, tweed goods, hi fi, and low volume high-end cars (well, we were, I don’t think there any British owned low volume car makers left). It falls down flat when we attempt mass production!
France and Italy,we're hardly any better.
A colleague of mine in San Francisco had a Stag ca. 1976. He and I didn't talk about the car very much, but I remember that it was often in the shop.
I wonder how improved it would be with an electric water pump, better placed in the engine bay, as some new cars have!
Not a bad idea!
The Stag didn't deserve to fail that is true but customers also shouldn't be expected to continue buying a mechanical disaster that wasn't properly developed before it was put on sale.
Unfortunately the Stag had a major overheating problem which soon tarnished its reptation. BL then decided to sell it in America, which can be a much hotter place than the UK! The Americans soon had had enough of its problems and hardly any were sold. Then BL fitted a smaller radiator!!! Mine had an automatic with only 3 speeds, so the big engine revved far too much at motorway speeds. The rear suspension would deliver a horrible lurch if the car changed gear while taking a bend. Something to do with sliding splines locking and unlocking.
This a REAL scoop - revealing that Triumph COULD HAVE HAD R o v e r 's engine!
British stubbornness at its finest!
@@ClassicsWorldUK actually, now I come to think of it - I can see
another reason for Triumph turning down "Rover"'s engine. (BUICK,)
If you think about it, Triumph was a really feisty designer of their OWN engines, which they CONSTANTLY upgraded! So it wasn't really being stubborn - they just wanted to achieve success in their OWN right. And of course, in its own way, their own engine gave ample power for British standards. The Americans, of course wouldn't have agreed - they would not even have thought the Buick/Rover engine could touch the sky's the limit of their muscle car engines! And someone who had both a Rover 2000, and a Rover V8 version, said that the V8 was the version was the one they preferred - whilst the 2000 version was the one they could AFFORD (To run)
As with many other BL/Leyland/BMC cars, so many mistakes made and opportunities missed.
IMO, they should have also offered it with the Triumph 6 and Rover V8 engines.
A very common belief! That said, a well-sorted Triumph V8 is a lovely engine :D
@@ClassicsWorldUK
I have one sitting on my driveway right now...
Unfortunately, the engine isn't well sorted.
I think it was driven when at the bodyshop when it had no coolant in it.
Tempting to try to drop a '90s Jag V8 in it.
There's a swap we'd like to see!
@@ClassicsWorldUK
Me too, although frigging the ECU to work may be easier said than done.
Had one , spent a fortune restoring, complete nightmare, nice to drive , ended up virtually giving it away. Still looks good though.
Good car but it was Triumph's troublesome home built V8 engine which was the problem, as it was unreliable with the overheating.
If ever there was a car ready for a restomod, it's this one imho. BL - dear God, they've got a lot to answer for...
A Stag restomod could be a lovely thing if done properly!
Like Jeremy Clarkson said, it's a stag, go long on the a, staaaaaag
Good name. Nothing else good.
Wie
What a review
I’d love one
The Stag is BL personified. A car with tons of promise, ruined by stupid decisions.
Sadly, it's a story we've told *many* times...
Bad management killed another great BL car
If they only used the Rover 3.5 V8 and built it a bit better it would have been a world beater. If it were built by the Japanese, we'd be on the 9th generation of this car. But sadly this was built in the midlands by BL in the1970's mostly for an American market.
A car to rival the SL....ambitious!! 😂. The car so over engineered even Merc engineers called it "the Tank" versus a car that overheated on a mildly humid day..
Always thought very handsome. However, here in the states, they rapidly developed a reputation for patchy build equality, poor reliability, and, of course, overheating. I realize that, due to zealous support in the Stag enthusiast community, fixes for most of the issues have been developed. It has always seemed to me that British car manufacturers outsourced their quality control mission to folks who had already bought the cars( see, also TVR, Lotus, Jensen, etc.) The tolerance of the British consumer makes
stateside buyers seem weak-willed, but it does not seem unreasonable to feel that the folks who built your car might have worked a bit harder....Chapter 3, I think, of the painful and lingering demise of the British auto industry.
The Stag, such a good looking design, even the interior was very tasteful for the time. It's the same old story, beautifully designed and appointed British automobile let down at the last hour by poor R&D, bad management decisions, worker apathy and grinchy accountancy enforced cost cutting. I can add the Rover SD1, Triumph Dolomite, Hillman Imp, Austin Princess and most TVR's 🤣 to the list of brilliant yet poorly executed British cars. TVR are certainly not mainstream and made of fibre glass but they all could have been better to live with if they had more R&D. The Austin Princess was not a bad design in my opinion, just badly executed, should have been a hatch and should have had better material choices. The designer of the Austin Allegro actually designed a cool looking machine, then BL management and accountants started to interfere with the designers and engineers to such an extent they ended up basterdising the whole concept and ended up with an upside down bath tub on wheels. The only British vehicles that seem to survive are those made for the upper classes, we completely failed with the common mans car.
The Hillman Imp would have been stunning with that brilliant little engine in the front- heard that the bean counters didn't want to spend money on developing CV drive shafts etc for the front... so they got 50p rubber doughnuts for the back instead.
Jeremy Clarkson calls it the Triumph Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag!!!!!
Mercy, Mercy ….. it paved the way for cheaper Japanese cars like the Datsun 240Z during its production life.
They should have stuck the Daimler 2.5 V8 in it instead of wasting money on that basketcase engine.
Yes, that would have been a good idea.
So they build a car for the American market. The corporation HAS a fully engineered V8 that Americans may have been familiar with so what do they do? Poorly cobble up an abomination of a V8 without even the understanding that pumps as a whole do indeed work better in a lower position so it’s less likely to suck air. Reason #462 why BL went under and the engine they didn’t want to use goes on to be the UKs small block Chevy. Well done BL
Look at all the appalling rubbish on the road now. Hateful SUV's, pig ugly saloons - where did all the lovely cars go? Does no-one have any ambition to own something nice? There is a reason old cars are climbing in value, and the Stag is one reason as a counterpoint to the hordes of Hyundai type crap. The Stag's reputation was thoroughly deserved, but what lovely thing!
Remember when you could get Stags for a few hundred quid?
stag knockers keep going on about the engine, yes there is some od design features. but stat researching the reliability of some modern engines, theres plenty on the net about them and if anything reliability has got worse. yes ive got one and yes there are things that could have been designed better.
Easy solution to the engine take out the stamp of radiator put in a cobra style radiator you will never have any problems triumphs were too cheap to do this remember the engine came out of a triumph spitfire that was a four-cylinder he welded the four cylinder together and took the radiator as well Ed China proved the reason.
😍😍
It is such a shame that the British arrogance and inability to sort problems out. It was all about cutting costs. Japan didn’t take that attitude and made/make amazing cars that are reliable and made with decent materials.
What were they thinking when they decided to name it "Stag"? 😑
The Triumph Stag a good looking car but that V8 engine its not an engineering fault it's a manufacturing fault a lot of problems with the engine to fix the problems all you pull it apart put a couple new parts in it when you put it back together slowly and methodically and most of the problems go away
Triumph had the edge generally with their cars in terms of ideas and looks. As with much of British manufacturing in those days it was let down by poor management and a British cultural arrogance that we were inherently better than other countries so people should obviously just buy our cars. Poorly executed multiple models without standardisation of assemblies etc (not using the proven Rover V8 being just one example). Sad but self inflicted.
Deserved a better engine...
It’s 2023 and phrases like “limp of wrist” can surely be dropped . Great car though
Why?
@@tris7cos we're all giant snowflakes it seems🙄
more tea vicar !!
There really is no excuse for poor engineering. Water pump on the top of the engine... come on.
Had two in 1977 no where near as good as a Mercedes SL...in comparison the stag was a pile of shit.... Looked good standing still...like the XJS Just looked good very bad..
That Motor was JUNK
Omg, that colour. Some cars really suit yellow, i don't think this is one of them.
Nope, it deserved to fail. It's homely, has an annoying and intrusive roll bar , underpowered plus was poorly built .
Underpowered and poorly built describes most British cars from 1930 to 1995 😂