Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
I wonder how it come a meme in first place. It's just because it's random humor or there's a reason that I don't know about. Also, that nobody get me wrong, the meme's funny
Ulpi: "Every damage type is physical to me, so you better have high ATK." Hoe: "Every damage type is Arts to me, so I don't give a shit if you have high ATK." I see no difference here
Im guessing its because Hoederer Loses 100 points of life per second, enemies that have attacked Hoederer take 200 points of true damage per second; +1 attack range, +60% max HP, +120% ATK, each attack restores 5% of max HP and has a 25% chance of stunning the target for 5 seconds.
I guess my view is that of someone who sees Abyssal Hunters breaking their conventional class restrictions. If Ulpianus didn't break something of his subclass I would have been sad seeing as their whole lore and niche is "We blood-doped sea horrors to go beyond our limits." They're probably the only Arknights Faction that as we get more of them they get closer and closer to their canonical story power and it's been a joy to watch that unfold from the start. To list off some of the breaks the other AH do: Skadi becomes a Helidrop Psuedo-Fast Deploy with her module. Effectively completing the multi-classing her S2 feels like it promised. Specter can regenerate HP, Become immortal (Something wholly unique to her for a LONG time) and duel enemies that even today's Centurions couldn't fight. Her Alter's Doll does true AoE damage and Slows compared to other Doll keepers that only get single hits of AoE (Kazemaru, Iana S1) or single target damage (Everyone else) Gladiia has a three charge pull skill, something HG gave to another puller after her but was a limit break in Pullers before that. Andreana... I wish she would get an Alter since she seems to be designed way before any of this crystalized and is the one hole in my talking about it every time... ;-; I guess she breaks the generally low-attackspeed of her archetype? (God even Specter, another 5star released way before her breaks her subclass better...) You're a great content creator and I get what you're saying. Just trying to share how I see Ulpianus (And AH in general) myself. Try not to burn out on the people who just go "LOLBadOpinion". (When honestly it's not. Dude shoulda have had %HP-Regeneration that spiked higher and higher when hit.)
I agree with you. I said the same thing before, but suppressed it, because I din't think I convey it well. As you said, they are, literally the "Nanomachines, son" meme. Also, for Andreana, isn't she's a "artificial" Abyssal Hunter, made by the Iberian, so that's why she doesn't work as well as the others,? I could be wrong about that though, wouldn't surprise me
@@TakeMyLunch andreana is weird because she isn't one when she first release she isn't classified as AH, somewhere along the way they change her faction out of nowhere and never give a lore explaination either
As the biggest Gladiia enjoyer, she breaks her archétype convention by being able to be a decent lane holder. Pulling enemies during their attacks or skills canceled them, giving her another layer of survivability with her talent. She's capable to be in the Frontline, dishing good damage (thanks to her other talent)
tbh i don't think they're designed with that in mind? imo skadi is very much in line with the other 6 star dreadnaughts having a helidrop skill and a burst tanking skill. several other centurions have self heal, specter's immortality is her personal gimmick like broca's arts conversion. i do think turning a DPS class into a dedicated tank is fun design though, gravel still stands out among executors for the same reasons i think for spalter and gladiia it's just a natural consequence of being the first 6 stars in the class. silverash plays almost completely different to the other lords, he's more like a proto-liberator while thorns and qiubai adapt traits that were present in lower rarity examples. andreana does attempt to break the class design by changing her targeting, the idea is that she clears hordes by nuking small fry and eventually being forced to target the big threat... although in practice she definitely feels clunky. i think schwarz and fartooth have more elegant ways to deal with similar problems by narrowing their range, plus it kind of works as a metaphor for focusing down the target lol for me, the defining traits of abyssal hunters is brute force, before gladiia it would have included a focus on phys damage but she and spalter break that pattern. everyone's a statstick and ulpian fits right in lol. i'm not bothered by his pseudo-DEF since it's basically on par with ranged units and most of his survival is still HP focused
I believe that your argument is somewhat cracked in its foundation. While I completely agree that healing a flat amount per damage instance is functionally identical to defense (ignoring poison haze), so too is sanctuary still functionally identical to RES; percentage based damage reduction. To me, these are equally egregious offenses to the subclass identity. I'm curious as to where in your mind the difference there is, as it seems an issue of perspective. You're more than welcome to say the blue man bad, but I don't agree with your reasoning here as to why specifically. This video is well put together and while I do understand where you're coming from, I also think that it's very unfortunate for a unit and such a cool one at that to be rendered unusable in your eyes due to such a relatively small detail.
The difference between the flat hp heal and sanctuary is that the heal will be better for handling trash mobs compared to sanctuary. Let's say an enemy will deal 200 dmg, if you heal for 150 on hit, it is essentially having the same as 150 def because you're only taking 50 DMG meanwhile with a 20% sanctuary you will take you're taking 160 DMG. Sanctuary scales better the bigger hit the enemies does which is more in line with what the class is supposed to do, take big bonks and bonk hard back
I am aware that Ulpianus' talent is superior to Hoederer's concerning dealing with swarms of trash mobs, but Bloop's point was explicitly not how effective it was; only its nature as a close defense proxy. So I'm curious about his thoughts on specifically Sanctuary being a RES proxy and the difference there.
@@SarisWinterwisp I think it's because Ulpianus has access to that pseudo def at talent 1 instead of being locked behind E2 and that you can actually stack is healing per hit with a Sanctuary which Hoederer will benefit only from the strongest Sanctuary, which tbf 90% of the time will be his own. No matter what you do Ulpianus will always have one more thing to help him survive compared to Hoederer even if you were to give every possible buffs to them like Shining's talents,Skalter S2 , Perfumer's regen etc, Ulpi will always have that indirect def in the heal per hit compared to Hoedy's sanctuary who can be overwritten by another source
Technically incorrect; while I disagree, he made his point clearly and I understand it. In fact I agree with most of it; only specifically that the argument of it being pseudo-defense is poor due to him not adressing pseudo-RES, or alternatively for not explaining the distinction therein. There's nuance in this discussion and thinking I was simply calling his arguments shit misses the point of my message.
@@Pomho1812 one talent focuses on aleviating the Crushers weakness while the other focuses on making the crusher better at it's specialty, but the fact is Hoederer still has a defensive talent that gives him an edge over the other crushers in survivavility, just like Ulpianus, treating one as "death of the archetype" while praising the other feels very biased.
I honestly find the crusher sub class to be really interesting and I agree that Ulpian having pseudo def is something I don't entirely agree with either just like W alter hitting air for reasons you mentioned. When it comes to crushers on my normal account I have no reason to use them since Blaze S2 for example has like 1.8k atk or so which is usually more than good enough for any enemy with moderate def and anything higher arts does the job (especially since casters like eyja and gg ignore some res if they have high res too). However when it comes to Elite 0 Level 1 crushers have filled a role that I have needed since their introduction with their super high max hp and atk compared to my other ops. I didn't have a way to effectively tank arts damage from casters or really high phys hits and when it comes to dealing dmg even 200 def on enemies makes them problematic for unleveled ops so having a subclass that does multi hit and 670 - 822 atk is huge for dealing with them. There have been many times I use them as helidrops since ch 4 and continuing on into ch 5 to do both dmg soaking while also doing good dps. I wouldn't be where I am at now without them making me appreciate what high hp survivability can do even though like I said I don't have a reason to build crushers on my normal account. I have enjoyed your in-depth discussions for various topics you've covered and just like on your "Arknights' Fundamental Issue with Progression" video I wanted to chime in my thoughts on crushers when it comes to my niche as well.
I honestly find the crusher sub class to be Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
i feel this is a bit similar to how i feel about degenbrecher vs irene. while i love both characters, i hate how hypergryph completely broke their rule of swordmasters offensive sp recovery with degen and making her have auto sp. it was pretty disappointing tbh though it won't completely diminish me wanting degenbrecher. but yeah i understand wanting to make strong characters be more appealing to pull but i wish there was a way to do that while preserving the integrity and rules of a class/subclass.
Even though I agree with you, I'm wondering if her skill being a auto-recovery was needed to keep up in the long run, that they felt that a offensive recovery was too much of a setback for the gameplay they have in mind for later chapters and events. Even though Irene can help clear Babel S-4 stage, so I'm probably wrong here lol It make me think of one of the character they released in the new 5.5 anniversary. Even though she's from my favorite class in the game, some of her skill feels like another, but I'm still going to pull for her anyway
issue with that is then they would be thinking that the old ops would become less useful or even outright useless because they don't have the same recovery, and i for one don't think HG think like that, they always seem to balance the game around all ops for the most part.
@@ads3047 I don't think they think like that too. I think it come simply from a $ perspective and wanting to "sell" that unit to players. Technically, Irene and Degenbrecher does the same thing, so, for a player, it could be seen as pulling for the same unit twice, so they simply won't pull the banner for a gameplay perspective, as it would feel redundant, so it means less money for the company. So, they need to do a Swordmaster, but not identical to Irene in every way, so that's where the auto recovery come in. I hope that I explain my point well lol. I also know that I digress from the point of the video, but I wanted to talk about that anyway, because it's interesting to me.
@@vincent6263 that is def an interesting idea, problem is Irene is not better than degen in any category, only thing she can be better is if she attack 100% of the downtime, her s3 come out just a tad bit faster, but else nothing she do is close to degen. Even her def ignore is irrelevant cus degen deal so much damage that unless enemy have like above 2000 def degen will just do better damage
I remember seeing some people criticize Hoederer's S2's stun being not as useful and then talk about the few enemies he can stunlock at launch. However that 1 second stun does boost Hoederer's survivability. Yes, you're not stunlocking every enemy, but you will be cancelling an attack every few hits, saving HP. Hoederer's fairly simplistic talents and skill design (even with S3's wall of words) is why I prefer him over Ulpianus. Also, with Doc's release I've been pairing him up with Hoederer a lot. Doc will get his 150% attack while his S2 is enough to heal 80%~ of Hoederer's HP per use.
@BloopsArknights I will not let that slide again. Jokes aside though, I have Quartz and Hoederer built, I will build Wind Chimes no matter what cause I play YanKnights nowadays and I dont like Ulpianus because of his appearance, plus Hoederer seems to be simply better than him, cause consumes 100 hp... ATTACK RANGE +1... Ulpianus cant do that, can he?
Just for an illustration, 21% shelter against 500 damage means you're receiving about 395 damage. Meanwhile with 100 heal mitigation, you essentially receive 400 damage. Shelter works against both arts and physical, similar as the mitigation, except it also heals when you receive "tiny damages". Thus, the biggest difference happen when the "chipping damage" is lower than 100, because with shelter, you'll still receive damage, while with the heal mitigation you get healed instead. Although i think given your classification, i can only see these two mechanics as "HP based survivability" traits still, one is completely canceling small tiny damages, while the other is more robust on handling bigger damage. To each of our own perceptions i guess.
DEF as a mechanic is more effective at dealing with spam and chip damage than HP is, thus I define Ulpianus' talent as being DEF-based, as it emulates DEF's effectiveness against spam and chip damage.
Agreed! Crushers natively have nor res nor defence But both of the 6 stars talents play with their hp pools finding diferent ways to make them more efective
This was a really good video and I liked it, but I think you also need to look at it from other angles 1 ) What Ulpianus's first talent does isn't that different from Hoederer from a design perspective. Shelter is basically arts resistance that also works on physical damage, flat healing is physical defense that also works on arts damage. With crushers having no defense and also NO RESISTANCE, both of them somehow get out of the archetype. The thing is that Hoederer focuses more on dealing with big damage, while Ulpianus is focused on surviving smaller enemies. You can see this on their skills too that goes to my second point 2 ) if you look at their skills, on s1 Hoederer heals 25% and is good for surviving agains large enemies. Ulpianus pulls enemies to himself, since pull force is based on enemy's weight, large enemies stay out and smaller enemies come to Ulpianus. On s2 Hoederer stuns, that helps with slow attacking enemies, Ulpianus makes his talent stronger, that helps with surviving smaller enemies. On s3 Hoederer has a long 70s duration and 5% healing on each attack, this skill is focused on blocking one or two big enemies and killing them over the duration, Ulpianus on the other hand has a 25s duration, goes to the enemy and comes back after the duration or if you deactivate it, meaning he goes in, kills the enemy if he can, and comes back before taking too many big hits. While this skill is focused on killing large enemies, Ulpianus doesn't really want to block them and take hit. Hoederer is designed to deal with strong enemies head on, while Ulpianus is designed to deal with many smaller enemies and avoid long combat with strong ones. 3 ) and my last point is, being out of the archetype isn't always bad, but the way they do this is important. For example Qiubai is a lord guard, these guards deal 20% less damage to enemies that are not blocked, her s3 ignores this while SilverAsh's s3 reduces his defense so you can't block enemies without the possibility of dying. But no one really cares about Qiubai dealing all of her damage because she is designed to bind enemies and deal with them without blocking. I agree that W'alter hitting air or an archetype of medics focusing on dealing damage is bad, but there are times that an operator is out of the archetype while being well designed. Ulpianus's talent definitely is out of the archetype but it's not in a bad way. Naturally you can completely disagree with my points and I'd like to see your thoughts on it.
One details about Ulpian skill 1 that I really like is the pull. It's a very interesting choice because pulling enemies when they are about to attack or uses their skills canceled them. It's a mechanics that few people know about. It basically act like a pseudo stun, and add another layer of survivability if they are well timed. And as the biggest Gladiia enjoyer on EN, the parallel makes me happy. Also, iirc, canceling his S3 during enemies attacks, makes him "dodge" it. At the end of the skill, he get redeploy, giving the players an active way to make use of the survivability aspect of the skill I know that the goal of the video was to talk about Ulpian and Hoederer individually, but I still surprised you didn't mentioned more about the Abyssal Hunters buffs, especially when we know that HG designed Ulpian with the buffs in mind. Having 20% + 22% (iirc) more base HP with the the absurdly high amount of HP crushers has is absolutely insane. And I didn't even mention about the 3,5% of HP regen by second with a stupidly high amount of damage reduction. Ulpian is perfectly usable without AH spuad, but he was designed with the buffs of the squad in mind, and I'm convinced that it can explain a lot about Ulpian's overall design Edit : what I mean was that making him a crusher was probably a "balancing" measure because of the absurd amount of buffs the AH already has. It's tied to his identity and game design.
I still don't understand your argument. Reducing damage by a flat amount is not fine, but reducing it by a % is? Damage reduction is damage reduction. The main point about crusher guards having very high hp is that they can survive extremely high damage hits, and the higher the damage the more effective Sanctuary gets. The only survivability option that crushers could have that makes sense is HP% increase, which would stay true to the subclass.
because reducing by flat amount removes the main weakness crusher by getting their ass beaten by weak atk, fast atk spd, swarm enemies. also sanctuary is practically the same with +hp% with more effective healing as bonuses.
@@yaboischrodi0618 lets say you have 50% sanctuary, when you're hit by 200 damages, you only receive 100, and your healer only need to heal 100, basically increase healing effectiveness to 200%. This is difference with hp increase where you'd still need to heal by 200 instead of only 100
His point is that Flat Damage Reduction is the same as an operator having defense As he said in the video with if the flat reduction is 100 If an enemy deals 500 you would only receive 400 (technically) But with Percent Reduction if the enemy has 500 damage and you have 25% damage reduction you would receive 375 damage Yes his argument is kinda meh since Def does Flat reduction while Resistance does Percent Reduction But he did point out that he was only talking about defense so yea
@@asophropyll so his entire point is simply meh, gotcha also, Ulpianus will be even better when paired with heal increase passives. The humpback whale ofc is stronger than whatever Hoederer is supposed to be, and lore-wise, Ulpianus is an Abyssal Hunter
I actually really like the healing talent. It adds synergy with healing increase % buffs and allows him to heal off of fringe enemies that do less than 100 damage. It’s like a weird form of defense with unexpected benefits. Don’t have him yet though so this is only in concept.
Sanctuary's true value is in not being able to be reduced by stat debuffs from enemies and also stacking differently from stat buffs. Crusher have no base defensive stats, but Shining and Nightingale for example can give them some.
Mmm…this video was fine, your stance on upholding kit design was well expressed, but I was kinda irked by your opinion that “medics shouldn’t heal”. TL;DR it makes sense, both in design and character, to have “offensive” medics. I think it’s a wrong approach to look at medics, in general. Some use healing vials, some throws you bandages, and some use their arts. There are many ways to restore someone’s vitality. And of course, that includes using your arts to damage enemies and heal your allies simultaneously. I do want to bring up Reed’s arts and overall character into this, as it justifies *really* well why she easily fits the bill to be an offensive healer. Her arts have never focused on “destruction”. Her arts, specifically, speeds up metabolism of cells to the point of combustion. Outsiders may see it as fire and flames, but the essence of Reed’s arts is…life. Furthermore, with practice, she has even shown to be able to control her own arts to only heal teammates(though with decent toll)! Vendela, Hibi alter, and Miya all qualify for that role. At their core, they all want to protect their allies, but their arts have developed in ways that allow them to still do the same duty but in a different approach. All in all, while I think it was a great video, you could try to have a second look at the odd class designs you come across and consider any potential factors that validates its existence. Who knows, you might see that they actually make a lot of sense.
hell, if walter was unable to hit aerial units she would be an even funnier unit to use, rosmontis powercreep for sure but at least it didnt gave up on the limitations of the class.
It's understandable that you don't like it when unspoken rules and established design choices are broken. I agree with your argument in the case of Crushers, but sometimes the rules were a badly designed to begin with. Flingers should have been able to attack air from the beginning. Maybe they deal less damage to air, maybe the aftershocks can't hit air, but they should have been able to target air from the beginning. I still hope they one day change the entire archetype similar to what they did with chain casters.
Enemy with 1k atk hits Ulpianus, Ulpianus heals 100 hp aka 10% damage reduction and takes 900 damage. Same enemy hits Hoederer, Hoederer reduces 20% of that damage to 800 (no idea about his exact number) through shelter. Enemy with 300 atk hits Ulpianus, Ulpianus heals 100 hp aka 30% damage reduction and takes 200 damage. Same enemy hits Hoederer, Hoederer reduces 20% of that damage to 240 (no idea about his exact number) through shelter. Tbh the difference is miniscule, the only thing that can make a difference is how they react to fast attacking enemies.
I would honestly argue that Ulpianus' talent IS HP-based survivability, in that his survivability is literally based on HP. Does it effectively act like 100 Def? Sure. But it's still HP-based. If his talent was just "Ulpianus has 100 Def", it would do the same thing and suck because it defeats the purpose. But by making it HP recovery, I think it's fine since it's still playing into their HP-based kit. The thing that makes it stand out more is his S2 increases how much he heals by, effectively giving him more survivability. But if Hoederer's S2 increased his Shelter then it would have also done the same thing. They both function in similar ways, but are different enough that Hoederer and Ulpianus can fill different roles in the same sub-class.
Literally, if he's calling Ulpi heal talent DEF-based survivavility then he needs to be calling Hoes shelter talent RES-based survivavility, you can't criticize one while praising the other.
@@obsiangravel He literally does. But the thing is that to him Crushers identity isn't a lack of Res based survivability, it's a lack of Def based survivability specifically. So pseudo-Res isn't as damning to the archetype's identity as pseudo-Def. Did you even bother watching the video?
You are getting the wrong idea. The list at 2:32 clearly shows the defining traits for Crusher. Let's put it this way: HP-based survivability is the "general survivability" stat, and DEF-based survivability is "survival against spam". Think of it as Crushers in general have B "general survivability" rating (above average) but suffers an E- rating (fatal weakness) against rapidfire attacks. Hoederer's Sanctuary bumps the first rating to A (good), but his rating for "survival against spam" is only improved to E. Ulpianus' Talent, on the other hand, raises his "general survivability" rating a little less than Hoederer to just B+, but it also completely removes the archetype's fatal weakness, turning it into his personal strength even by elevating his "survival against spam" straight to S+ (exceptionally meta). The issue with Ulpianus is that he "solves" the weakness of his archetype, negating it completely whereas Hoederer is still subject to the vulnerability of his subclass despite being generally more survivable than fellow Crushers.
Ok I agree but lets ask ourselves here, if a character or class has a restriction that serves to only make their gameplay aggravating does it deserve to exist? Take Duelist defenders who are categorized by their sp recovery being low unless they are blocking and they can only block 1 enemy and often end up killing said enemy too quickly to actually charge a lot of sp. Making them highly dysfunctional as an archetype and not suited to most content. Are they unique? Sure but you have to ask yourself is an operator having a restriction about where their power lies or because they need to fit into their archetype. And often since archetype ends up taking priority over power level you end up with a lot of archetypes that don't work or are too niche to function. Crusher from the offset has not worked even in their intended role because of the fact that they are entering a saturated game where what they can do is often overshadowed 10X over in the current landscape of the game. Also I sort of see Ulpianus' ability not as a skill that works like defence but works to mitigate the core problem with crushers which is that high hp based defence doesn't do much against a high repetition of damage and it does it without being defence despite acting as defence. I think your nitpick is just unfounded fundamentally.
I disagree that Ulpianus invalidates the "nonexistant DEF-based reduction" part, but rather, simply bends it to become "near-nonexistant DEF-based reduction". First of all, 160 psuedo-DEF is low enough that it's not gonna matter much past the early game. I think that unlike something where "Flingers can't hit air at all" - no matter what you do to buff a Flinger (or debuff a Flinger), it will do absolutely nothing against aerial enemies - Ulpianus without this talent can still tank mobs, just, not as well as with this talent (or conversely, Ulpianus with his talent can't tank mobs well, removing it would make it worse but it's already bad). It's like if a Marksman Sniper is released with 700 ATK (I think the highest is currently Exusiai with 668 after Talent), I wouldn't see it as a big issue. Though also the class has like. 3 operators before Ulpi. Kinda hard to draw conclusions from 3 data points when it's not directly written in the branch's trait description
Swordmasters with only 5 entries is already enough for people to lose their mind when Degen came out with an Auto Recovery S3 despite nowhere does it specifically state that the subclass is restricted to only Offensive Recovery. It's not about what are explicitly shown but also the traits implicitly implied via their gameplay application. The list at 2:32 clearly shows the defining traits for Crusher. Let's put it this way: HP-based survivability is the "general survivability" stat, and DEF-based survivability is "survival against spam". Think of it as Crushers in general have B "general survivability" rating (above average) but suffers an E- rating (fatal weakness) against rapidfire attacks. Hoederer's Sanctuary bumps the first rating to A (good), but his rating for "survival against spam" is only improved to E. Ulpianus' Talent, on the other hand, raises his "general survivability" rating a little less than Hoederer to just B+, but it also completely removes the archetype's fatal weakness, turning it into his personal strength even by elevating his "survival against spam" straight to S+ (exceptionally meta) where he can breath Poison Haze as if drinking healing potions. The issue with Ulpianus is that he "solves" the weakness of his archetype, negating it completely whereas Hoederer is still subject to the vulnerability of his subclass despite being generally more survivable than fellow Crushers.
Ulpi's problem is that Gladiia already gives sanctuary. That leaves RES, dodge, and elem defense as the mitigation. Ulpi's current talent fits him as an abyssal hunter, but as a crusher he would be better suited with something like triple elemental threshold.
Part of me fully agrees, and Ulpianus talent has bothered me since he came out (I knew exactly where this video was going well before I clicked on it). On the other hand, it feels to me like Crushers are a very cool class in a vacuum, but less so in practice. Huge HP based survivability is useful for very certain things, like getting punched by a golem, shot with a cannon or arts damage in general, issues which other characters really struggle to deal with, but they struggle to deal with lots of physical attacks, whereas others don't. The issue is that other characters have so little issue surviving low physical damage, that the levels are designed around dealing with this being completely trivial. Using crushers feels like deliberately making the game more difficult for yourself by adding in a new consideration. This is all well and good if you want to challenge yourself, but the pay off otherwise just doesn't feel worth it. Conceptually, I think crushers are awesome and I want to like them, but I never find myself in a position where a crusher is what I need for a strategy. (Side note: be nice to Reed, she's been through a lot. She's not even the first DPS medic, that's Kal'tsit, who is incidentally probably the best example of "this subclass in name only" as she has a bunch of random traits that separate her from the other single-target medics, not least the ability to summon a giant crystal monster.)
I generally agree with the sentiment as laid out. I think that Hoederer shouldn't have sanctuary either, though. What would I replace their respective talents with? I'd give Hoederer an attack reducing aura in the surrounding four tiles and I'd give Ulpianus dodge mechanics. I think this fits better with having alternative methods of damage reduction than their existing mechanics.
Can argue that the uniqueness of Ulpi's survivability is it's work against true damage, it's funny how you put him in poison stage and the green number keep pop up on his head :))))
to be fair ulpianus first talent is even more broken than the def stat because def is supposed to let the enemy inflict atleast 5% of the original damage while his talent let him cancel the damage. While i do agree with your explanation i do not see crusher in the same light as you, crusher in my opinion are meant to be huge wall that hit hard and and are hard to take down like walking fortresses. Ulpianus's first talent make that feeling of walking disaster more important. Good video started following your video after watching the crusher guide
Me when they give a crusher res Imo def/res base survivability are both kinds of fun, just res is a bit less used I do love crushers, and I used to dislike uplra.. uh .. the hunchback whale, but after seeing these two videos and people takes and opinions, I've grown to like him, and hoederer too One has pseudo res, and the other has pseudo defence, both well complemented by their basic high hp survivability, but their santuary nor healing keep them for "surviving", rather just addons of their class, they're by all acounts vulnerable, tanking via hp primarily, but both kits get complemented by their pseudo survivability The module helps that even more So, your videos have made me love the class more seeing how hp based and resistance base survibability matters, and how the crusher class tries to adapt with their 6 stars branching out being slightly more defensive while still playing by their hp pool By that I mean, crushers are hp based tanks, their identity has no res nor def, and that makes them great, and both 6 stars offering more survavility by playing with their hp pools in diferent ways Let's not forget that Mumu can copy a AH team buffed ulplanus with S2 and have both santuary and defence, having the best of hoederer and ulpranus together 💕(lets ignore that they lose attack weight=block)
He gets out of subclass identity because his identity is still part abyssal hunter, abyssal hunters always have that really nutty buff. So he’s still a crusher but his identity is more abyssal if you consider it to the abyssal hunter identity. It’s not that he was made so much to be solely a crusher, he was made to be mostly the abyssal hunter identity, with crusher on the side
Huh… I’m getting a strange sense of dejavu… well, anyway Last time I discussed why I love Hoederer an abnormal amount. I’m not doing that again, I’ll briefly discuss Ulpi this time. (If you want my novel on why I love Hoederer as a character; ask, but be warned: I mean it when I say novel.) I did say that I liked that Hoederer is an average Sarkaz. And with that I mean: he doesn’t come from a special background (royal court, important parents, etc.), he didn’t get special treatment and he has no special powers. He is just one stubborn guy (who is willing to become a villain without regret if it means a better future for his people, even if he hates what he does). Ulpianus is completely the opposite. He’s a seaborn/aegir hybrid who was picked to be part of a group of elite soldiers to save the sea (and world) of Isha’mla. And him being an abyssal hunter means that, by design, he is stupidly strong, just by synergy alone. I… don’t really feel strongly about him, but he intrigues me. I’ve always loved the Seaborn events/stories and I’m really looking forward to his event, it’s not like we know a lot about him. Personality wise, he’s kinda a mystery, so it’s hard to properly analyse him. But strangely enough, he does have an overlap with Hoederer (yes, I’ll always come back to Hoederer). They’re both seasoned soldiers from a persecuted race (one more than the other), wanting to protect their home from an outside threat. And they’re both crushers ofc. In the end I’m far more interested in Hoederer’s story, as the threat against Sarkaz comes from human nature (y’know, demonizing a race of people to justify persecuting them, taking their land and forcing them to live in quite horrible circumstances). As someone who studies sociology I find that more interesting than a fictional monster threat. But the seaborn stories are also very high up there, I love me some cosmic horror. As for his kit, I don’t feel that strongly about it. I’ll be honest, I’m not specially attached to crushers, just Hoederer really. But I can see your point in why him getting 100 def is stupid (and, I’d argue pointless, since he gets enough heals from his buddies, did he really need even more? How about another fun gimmick?). I’m not really sure what is more effective in the long run, def or sanctuary. Depending on the context the 100 heal is probably negligible, but I can also see it being quite powerful when used against weak mobs (a bit like a Mudrock vs Penance kinda situation?). I think they probably should have picked an alternative healing method (I’ve read the comments, there were some nice suggestions), though it doesn’t necessarily ruin him for me. I’ll probably pull for him, since I want to build the abyssal hunters (before Hoederer and Ines, Specter alt was one of my faves - of my small collection of keychains she is the only female operator I have, tho I will get Ines hopefully soon). I’m not sure if I’ll get him, since I’m planning to burn through my 300 pulls for Wis (I need to complete the merc x family and spark regular W, I can’t do them dirty like this). That being said, if I get him I probably won’t build him anytime soon or even use him a lot… but I will keep using Hoederer and Ines (and their disaster of a pseudo-daughter). Also, nice! Warfarin! She is the best crusher healer for sure. I built and m3’d her s1 for Hoederer alone… I’m sorry, I’ll shut up now, I swear I can talk about other subjects than that red head!
mitigate is better in a case where enemy hit for 2000 damage every 5 seconds, while defense is better in the case where enemy hit for 200 damage every .5 second. mitigating 21% of 2000 damage can stop a 1 shot but cannot nullified said damage, while even 100 def for 200 damage spam will half that damage aka 50% reduction, effectively nullified said damage, which is the designed weakness of crusher class. While mitigate is gonna be better in a lot of case, his point is that def-style talent like this does not fit a crusher design, not that its better than mitigate
idk I think there should be units that are the exception to an established status quo, Reed being crazy dps medic to me is hilarious and in part a bit of what makes arknights unique, but I think the problem is when that carries over to future Operators in those archetypes as if admitting that the very archetype itself was flawed. Then again, I never think of these units as belonging to an archetype their just their own crazy thing, it's like calling Kal'tsit a standard medic (I mean I guess that is technically true but nobody sane uses her like that.)
This dude thinks he can trick me into watching him talk about Hoederer and Ulpianus across two videos for thirty minutes. He might not be right about Ulpianus having flat reduction (DEF mechanics) against both Physical and Arts damage to mirror Hoederer's percentage damage resistance (RES) against both Physical and Arts damage, but yeah, I'll watch the video. For what it's worth, defensive talents aside, I do think the way Hoederer interactions with Ines (and to a lesser extent W) is more interesting than how Ulpianus works with the AH squad. About his only meaningful AH interaction is all his skills giving him +Max HP to make the 2.5% Max HP regen buff more effective. Which is strong, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly interesting. Ines basically sitting behind Hoederer to reveal invis and bind enemies to buy him time to get a free attack in while he gives her 18% damage resistance is a neat teamwork/positioning combo. Meanwhile the AH are just "deploy all the fish, get giant global buffs."
I really appreciate you going through this. I got Ulpianus just as a random gamble and I really like his S3, serving the niche but prevalent use case of dealing with demonic spiders that sit at designated points on the map just outside of high-traffic lane range that typically do ranged Arts damage. He turns what would be 2 deployment slots into one, kind of like how Jessicalter is able to do sometimes. But I was always mixed on the talent (and Abyssal Hunter buffs), not because it isn't awesome or useful but because I don't want him to shadow other operators I use. The use case that I used as an example if the enemies were doing low but rapid physical damage (designed to shred improperly placed high ground units) is better solved by Lin because she has an effective true AoE range behind her that can handle holding a lane but also killing demonic spiders, probably one of my favorite operators to use ever. Though Ulpi's talent makes it more reasonable for him to handle that niche as well. As I said, I'm all for cool operators that can be generalists but Arknights by its team-building nature should be solved by the interactions between enemies and operators.
I don't actually know how Take 1 looks like. But I can say this is the first time I actually enjoy your video & seeing your takes as "your opinion" rather than "forced opinion" Anyway. Yeah, even though I love Ulpianus in design, lore, & kit. I do very understand the problem with "fixing" an Issue of an Operator such as gives Brawler 2 blocks, gives SwordMaster Auto Recovery SP, gives Flinger ability to touch Aerial Enemies, etc. Although I don't really care about that as I treat those things as a Bonus rather than their actually kit (I don't care how bad they made Ulpianus, I will pull him nontheles becase of design & lore reason). When he was stated being a Crusher, I was like : "oh, the class that hard to manage. Well his S2 seems to be AFK anyway, & his S3 looks fun as hell. Great!" Then when he revealed to have a "DEF stats" I was like : "oh. What the hell, I mean I'm not complaining though 🤷♂️"
Bloop geniuenly I wanted to say your awesome. The way you've talked about nogachaKnights is so wonderful and has really helped me get a better grasp at the more nebulous aspects of what makes an operator. While I don't have anything to add to the crusher debate since I don't have Hoederer and am not entirely excited for Ulpianus I can still respect the amount of dedication you have to this one specific archetype. I can start to put it into the archetypes I know, or if not specific archetypes far more general waves. How certain relatively good units are antithetical to their archetype.
That is a really good point there really When I first looked into the Subclass identity of Crusher, it was: - A character that has a really good 1 normal single ATK (that being: high ATK, low ATK spd, and an effect that makes a solo enemy suffer: can stun some time (it can be playing around) (so the upside is that they hit hard but can't deal much if there are many targets) -Really paper with poke but vulnerable with the effect that shreds defense (again, upside and downside) -Can be paired with someone that can further increase max HP (somehow) but still suffer with the enemy that hit hard or true dmg ( I don't compare with normal op here because I think that true dmg still hit Crusher so hard that it not really an upside, they don't really counter or endure much better, they receive a lot with 1 shot dmg also being no def) ( so this also has the upside and downside. Both not much) And then there is 1 thing that I like about the game when it comes to each character: they can break 1 or 2 things in their Subclass identity kit to make them different from others In my view, the subclass is meant to be balanced and each character should make some change that either remains with the subclass identity but is extremely good at it or they can do something that makes their subclass identity just f and then good with most of the identity still true to their subclass So in my view, the Hoederer is the one that stays good with their Identity and is good while Upianus just breaks something terrible in the kit to be good More specifically the first talent of Upianus fixed the terrible downside of being too vulnerable to poke but if you look at the "ideal" target of the Crusher, they want to fight with a miniboss instead with slow and heavy dmg to 1 target while staying alive with stun effect and high health. The first talent in the boss scenario nearly doing nothing (imagine the 100 heal to 1200+ dmg per hit) The case of Hoederer staying true to the subclass will still be there with his talent instead. He has insane high health and even a lot more with that talent making him more tanky with that kind of enemy and with support, he will be in a way better place than Upianus if we just let them tank the enemy alone So to just sum up all my points, he is a very clever and tricky design If you just make a tier list with the top being good dmg on hit/glass canon and then the bottom is like someone that has aoe dmg or just straight up aoe guard with the balance def and dmg to many enemies then the top would be Hoederer and at the middle will be Upianus. I feel like I just being terrible at making the idea clear that Upianus is good because he is in the middle but if I can say more, then he is the op that you normally use to face with an elite enemy that should have high health and low ATK spd and that enemy is more specific to health or they have some reason to stay still or just afk so far away from you team (or not) and then either way, they will come with a bunch of normal mob that go with them Upianus going to get the benefit of them going with the mob to heal back while assassinating them with skill 3, which forces him to dash into a lot of normal mobs that can poke him and he will rely on that to be in a way better situations than he should be without the first talent Yes, I can fully understand that the Doctor here just wants to point out that HG intentionally cracked the "hidden rule" they made up for the op that made him not like it while I'm here saying that they made it so good that everything has synergies with each other and they follow up to make a one play style that is super unique that I once think of but didn't expect all other factions to make that op good or even decent in the meta. (My thought when in year 2 of the game was: what if you make a single melee op somehow can move in some way, forward or sideway, aoe is ok too but that could be too broken? or isn't it? and then I just leave the idea there, waiting for the dev someday to cook). I am very pleased with the character alone and this video even makes me appreciate it more. Thanks for the video. Side story that doesn't relate: After the Texas alter release, it was obvious that Lappland would have the alter in the next episode of that story of Siracusa. I was expecting 2 things to come next: if the Lappand ever comes out, she must be the mech Caster (drone caster) that summons the wolf's head (Like the Boss in that event, in-game they have a full body but in the story, they only appear with the head, the end of the story end with Lappland about/ meet the Wolf lords), with all that said, a mech caster that can spawn a bunch of wolf's head that chase and attack at the same target with global range will be the only way to make Lappand really cool (and so they did that lol). Second, with the meeting of kal'tsit, red and Crownslayer before in the main chapter, the fact that Red has the mission to kill Crownslayer's teacher only leads to 2 kinds of endings: Crownslayer being playable or she will have some insane plot twist that will kill someone important or so. But if Kal is the walking plot already then I guess Crownslayer only has 1 ending then.
While i like both hoederer and ulpian, i def prefer hoederer over ulpian for the same reason as you do. I was pretty dissappointed when ulpi kit first release and he heal on hit, heck give him a heal 10% of dmg taken would be better than this. But at the same time i cant help but love just how well his kit play into AH design, even despite the first talent. This video definitely makes your point much clearer than the first video, good job 👍
Honestly, I disagree with the premise. Crusher identity was never “has 0 defense based survivability”, it was “relies on its hp for survival”. As the 6* representatives of the archetype, Hoederer gets pseudo resistance with his sanctuary (its resistance that applies to both arts and physical damage) while Ulpianus gets pseudo Defense (its defense that gets applied to bith physical and arta damage) they are both foils to each other that break one of the archetype’s characteristics in a different ways. I’d even argue that adressing the subclass weakness in this way is good design, actually, since it grants them both unique niches beyond what their archetype usually does. The only thing is that Hoederer *feels* more like a traditional crusher. You don’t feel the effect of sanctuary as anything other than a bigger Hp pool in most daily content, but I think like thats a different point entirely.
If Crushers are supposed to avoid chip damage and deal with heavy-hitting, slow-attack elites and bosses, why do they have Block 2 and attack as many enemies as they can block? Though if they didn't do that, they wouldn't be appreciably different from Dreadnoughts. And Dreadnoughts already underperform at the same role unless they have cracked Talents and Skills like Nearl the Radiant Knight.
I think Ulpianus' healing is a non-factor here. If the enemy does an attack of around 475 or higher, Hoederer's sanctuary reduces it by 100+. Effectively the same thing. Yeah Ulpianus' effect can be cheesed by some specific mechanics like poison mist, but those instances are rare.
I think part of why Ulpi ended up not appealing to you is because his unit identity sort of clashes with his subclass identity. Specifically, I think they wanted Ulpi to be a bug crusher as opposed to Hoederer's optimized crusher. 10:44 's skill discussion led me to that conclusion since the way he works implies he's good at fighting both giant monsters and small creatures. Abyssal Hunters are known for both fighting Seaborn and having some Seaborn in them for a stat boost. This stat boost is most commonly seen in-game as hp regen which he has, in a way. Talent 1 was also probably a way to make him good at fighting Seaborn because I think it lessens both the undersea swarm, and Nervous impairment while his Crusher status makes him fighting large monsters seem believable. In short, in-story he's supposed to be great at something Crushers aren't designed for and that Talent was probably their way of (making him strong enough for the fans.) maintaining the expectations around Abyssal Hunters. Also, Gladiia took the dmg reduction talent so they couldn't give it to him lol I'm really happy to see your content around AK's game design and i hope you'll continue to be honest about your preferences and passionate about your time with the game. You gained a new subscriber. Thanks for the video
i didnt watch the video yet but i love hoederer hard hitting atacks (its like i'm playing with a monster hunter big sword guy, very cool) and it hits extremely hard
TLDR: healing on being hit feels like DEF, crushers shouldn't have DEF mathematically yes, but in my opinion these are 2 different things tho. my impression on the crusher class is just they scale with HP and not DEF, so they are weak against physical damage. ulpianus' passive does not make him stronger against physical damage but multi instance damage in general, art, true, necrosis, elemental, and the difference between him and hoederer is just, hoederer hit people to heal %HP and ulpianus get hit by people to heal %HP. Ofc the later is better, and the AH buffs make ulpi even more OP, but depending on your impression of the crusher subclass, I think ulpianus works well as a crusher tho
Good video man, enjoyed the introduction and the analysis/comparison for the skills within the subclass, but I'm slightly mixed about the point where Ulpianus's recovery talent is similar to the idea of giving him flat defense. His talent not only applies to physical, but arts and true damage as well. It also doesn't have a cooldown, so any rapid strikes or continuos poison effect would probably deal less damage if not negate outright. Also, the talent negates damage through recovery instead of damage reduction, so we might see interesting interaction from ops and enemies in the future that interacts or counteracts that. But I don't own both ops so I have no experience on how they actually feel to play.
Honestly, Ulpianus feels like they should've made another 5* Crusher first to create a separate Crusher identity outside of the "Quartz => Wind Chimes => Hoederer" line. Maybe a 5* Crusher with a refreshing shield to create a separate identity line Like, as an example, Lord Guards have specialized from Jack-of-all-Trades into Crowd Control, Support, and Survivability branches; all they have to do is add another non-6-star Crusher or two to split Crusher into multiple subclass branches
Unrelated to the video but the fact that lore wise Hoederer and the ally behind him get shelter because of the size of he's cheeks but Degenbrecher has 0 arts resist is a disgrace.
For me, i think it comes down to Hoederer, as you said, feeling like the final evolution of Crushers while Ulpianus feels like a Crusher that was forced to play nice with the other Abyssal Hunters.
Genuinely confused about the distinction here. Sanctuary literally gives defense to the unit, but that's HP-based survivability? Ulpianus heals himself, so that's defense-based survivability? What?
So, I don't really know if his heal apply before taking damage or after taking damage. But if his heal takes effect after he gets hit by it, you can't really call it pseudo-defense, can you? 🤔 If Ulpian has 500 health left, and he was hit with a 500 damage attack, he would die before getting the heal, yes? So, to be honest, I don't see anything wrong with his talent. It still doesn't count as a defense. It is a heal. But, if the heal takes effect before getting hit, then I would agree with you, because it would act as a pseudo-defense.
I personally love Hoederer too but about his S2 giving more control instead of insane damage. Can't help but notice that you don't need control when ur enemies are already dead.
pleasantly surprised to see this come out so soon. i already got where you were coming from with the first video (for those who havent seen my other comments, i dont AGREE with this take, but i completely understand it), but hopefully this one can help a lot more people understand why you feel the way you do. also, i may not be able to enjoy crushers as an archetype (to me quartz is borderline unusable), but i can agree that hoederer is peak crusher design, so much so that hes actually fun for me to use, unlike the other two we've got so far. i will say though their module does exactly what i wanted crushers to do from the start, so i might actually start using non-6-star crushers once we get the module drop
5:29 im watching this and im realizing "oh right, i absolutely hate guards why am i here" but i like the video so ill keep on enjoying it 6:01 - 6:31 kinda curious then (since i do "hate guards and all"), what are your thoughts about Ray and her archetype?
Ray's awesome. She's one of the few 6-stars I have E2d and actually use. I like Hunters, I do think they're a fun subclass. Ray spoke to me mainly because her summon made her playstyle so much more engaging. I enjoy using her because of that added micromanagement. Although I will say, her S3 isn't that fun for me, it does feel too cheesy. Her S2 is easily my favorite because it leans so heavily into the summon. She's an awesome operator.
I'm gonna make a straight out of park comparison, crushers are like Darth Sion, no armor, pure health and damage, who needs armor when you can just take the hit and kill the target.
Its just my guess but i think his first talent is somehow related to his lore as an abyssal hunter, abyssal hunter have to fight under the nethersea brand influence so him having recovery talent is to counter the damage over time mechanics but cant say for sure cause he is not yet come to global. Abyssal hunter have to adapt to the harsh enviroment of the sea so when they fight on the land where there is no nethersea brand they obviously gonna be really strong. Maybe hypergryph is trying to make crusher while thinking about the lore so they came up with that talent
Hoederer was never a bad unit, I don't have him yet but I borrow him from time to time. People thinking he's inferior is probably the same story as dreadnought subclass, block 1 low aspd made them fall off "meta". Opanas doesn't need his talent to negate the crusher subclass - once you throw his wife on the battlefield and he gets heald passively because he's an Abyssal Hunter. HG just doubled it down with his talent.
I don't like Ulpipi simply because how cracked he is. Having a bit of def is definitely goes against crushers identity, but that talent barely does anything in cases where you usually would want to use crushers, and does literally nothing if you add one welfare into the squad since he becomes unkillable. It's like complaining that thief that stoles your money is poorly dressed, I think there's bigger problems than that. Dude powercrept Hoederer in half a year, even though Hoederer already was extremely strong (seriously, I have no idea who says that he's fragile and dying too fast, it was enough to play with him just a bit to see that this is obvious bullshit).
Ok, take two for me definitely made me reconsider the design of Hoederer vs Ulpianus and I definitely see what you mean in def vs hp. Consider me more or less converted. I do have ask why a raise to RES for crushers grinds your gear vs sanctuary though. Like I get it, want these guys to basically have no defensive stats to keep in with design...but wouldn't RES, with how it works at least, still work into a quote unquote HP based survivability, even if it is defensive stat? As for medics not being dps...eh, agree to disagree. It's its own subclass with defined niche rather, im fine with it considering that's its special identity. Like how you wouldn't compare a crusher to a centurion even if they are both high damage 3 block guards, I would hardly compare incantation medics to a regular medic just because they both heal. Especially since Folinic has had a damaging S2 for years now. Sometimes the best way to heal is to pull out a gun (grenade launcher).
While I don't share the sentiment I get what you are saying, it's a matter of principle, but would you be fine with Ulpianus kit if say instead of healing per hit taken, he had like Thorns passive healing? Just gauging what you consider to be acceptable defensive capabilities for the subclass, cuz I feel like that would fall under hp based survivability but still would be pretty busted nonetheless
Yeah that would be fine. As long as his method of healing doesn't emulate DEF or make him less vulnerable to spam attack and swarms, then it's all good with me. Thing is with a passive healing per second, as it would just kinda be lame since most people are using him with Gladiia, so that overlap just kinda feels uneventful, albeit powerful. I would prefer if he healed a percentage based on the damage he dealt, as it does still do what he wants to do, but doesn't have that design overlap with Gladiia.
Calling healing a defence based survavibility is kinda funny but I get what you mean and tbh, if they wanted him to have hit based healing then why not make him Musha/Solo Blade? This class is also known for high HP and ATK
This videos argument is just fundementally flawed. "Damage reduction is ok but flat reduction isnt!" Why? It makes no sense. Ulpian simply enjoys a stronger kit overall wich is the main issue between their comparisons but that isnt the point here. This and your previous Crusher video had been heavy misses for me, i think you should make more objective standpoints on these types of videos. *And definitely not compare off skill damages of characters like the previous one*
Think of it like how Chen's Talent giving Offensive/Defensive Recovery skills a semblance of being Auto Recovery is still within the acceptable boundaries by virtue of giving less than 1 SP/s and keeping the "attack = SP" aspect, but Degenbrecher S3 outright being an Auto Recovery skill is considered breaking the archetype and an affront to the established subclass. Not everyone has RES, but everyone has DEF. However, Crushers are the sole exception to this rule by being the only subclass to innately has 0 DEF, which makes it their unique defining trait. Therefore, Hoederer's alt-RES doesn't violate this rule as it is completely different from DEF, but Ulpianus' alt-DEF is effectively just "DEF, but better" where it should have been "not DEF" or at most "DEF, but worse". Something along the line of Gater's second Talent where she receives extra healing would have been more fitting for Crusher if Ulpianus needs it to be related to healing. Alternatively, instead of healing, let Ulpianus gain a decaying barrier instead since it will still accomplish the same goal of making him better than other Crushers at surviving constant swarm yet doesn't completely abandon his identity as a Crusher.
@@xenotyphon Yeah just make him a fucking Soloblade with that Barrier thing. You are removing Ulpianus' unique kit because ''it doesnt fit with Crushers'' It absolutely does. Hell it fits more than DR because at least its still about his HP.
@@muratticugaratti1571 You are simply missing the point entirely and only want to reinforce your own pov without any understanding the subject at hand. Until you get better comprehension, there is no point continuing to yell into the void.
@xenotyphon Bullshit. You ignore Abyssal Hunters Regen gimmick and want to replace it with Solo blade nonsense because you think having HP REGEN on a class that's completely built around HP somehow makes less sense than stealing Soloblade's gimmick(Stealing Centurion's aoe wasn't enough for you I suppose) I'd argue his HP regen makes even more sense than DR
I think that the idea was to use something that isn't technically def, hoederer has shelter and some heals. Ulpianus' passive heal makes him stronger against many weak sources of damage but he can't take hits as massively as Hoederer. I think Ulpianus' heal is more useful to vounter environmental damage than countering smal physical damage, because being honest most situations that having def would matter, 200 def wouldn't do anything, I've had my Blaze with way more def than that instantly activating her passive. But I've seen the videos of Ulpianus in those "deadly fog" stages and it's gorgeous. I guess he does great in Stultivera navis stages with that nervous impairment floors since he actually can "reduce" that 1000 true damage from it and he would heal from the continuous damage. So, yeah, it kind of works like def but it's real usage is against environmental damage, which is perfectly fitting for his character, he's MADE to survive in extreme environments.
Something you didnt mention is that ol’ peanus’ second skill basically DOUBLES this mock defense talent, and it gets stronger when his HP is lower. Fairly tricky in my eyes.
yeah i didnt mention it cuz then I would have to stop praising him to then complain about the thing the whole video is for me to complain about. It's more of a structure thing.
Loved the vid and your perspective on unique characters! I do not agree with the "there are no bad characters" tho (general reason: contradicting kits or ops being bad at what they're supposed to excel at by "nature" aka class or subclass). Also, the whole argument kinda falls apart when *insert the shit ton of comments talking about Hoe pseudo RES and Anus pseudo DEF *. You can clearly see a bias when you talk about them being HP based ops with nonexistent DEF but completely skip the also nonexistent RES part.
While i do get what you are saying and there is a part I definitely strongly agree with, I will say for both of them break the archetype to me as crushers shouldn't have such a high level of self sustain, the shelter is fine as its a damage mitigation but healing means they both as you would say get Def based survivability, but more so it means you can focus on then less with healers and it also lessens the need for the great combo of Abjurers and crushers as they work well together and give a great reason to use abjuers. But now you can slap any medic even ones like Warf who takes health away, without much worry. Imo they should get more shelter, dodge and stun to help then survive and keep healing to enmity ops. The part i strongly agree is when ops like walter break the established rules like not attacking air units and while i do love reed i also see that yeah she aint a true medic, this means the need for variety is reduced and more 'lazy' strats can be adopted. I even made a post on reddit talking about new Archetypes and for medic went with the whole mercy from overwatch where you can revive from dead teammates(think module talent of dreadnought guards but where a medic can give that to an op with the condition that after the skill duration the op is retreated either way but with a slightly reduced redeploy). But that said the beauty of AK is that if you dont like them you dont have to use them but yeah it still bring the issue like I had with lappy who i got in the first 5!pulls of the game, why should i build someone weaker when i already had them. I just hope that this doesnt become a trend for the game and they keep giving use new and Interesting ops to play with. Oh and not a critique, infact i respect this type of talks and content and commend you for taking about these things.
Actually, I think the talent might be worse than just giving him some kind of defence, because if Ulpianus was hit by something that deals less than 100dmg, then he would actually heal. This more or less negates any negative effects of the red mist or the originium pollution in the new chapter. Though that is to be expected from Abyssal Hunter.
Abyssal Hunter as a character really set a high standard to really live up to the hype and it's clear they want to avoid another "Viviana" where she was a complete failure to live up to the hype to her introduction with a very bland kit. And we know Abyssal Hunter being super human level strong do come with all those stuff including the ability to regenerate their health back up so them including that in as a defensive mechanism makes sense. But it's also one of those thing that's easy to fix if they want to address what you brought up. Instead of a flat heal per hit, they can easily make it a stackable regen like "Upon getting hit, heal 80 HP per sec for the next 3 seconds, stack up to 3 times" so after getting hit 3 times, it becomes a 240 HP/s regen, up to 720 and will keep going as long as you get hit but it will not outright become a 100 damage negation per hit so a barrage of blow at fast speed will still eat him up quickly. There is a possibility they did consider like this at first but because the AH regen buff already exist, they are forced to make it a flat heal instead and to also make him more standalone friendly. This end up turning it into makeshift Defense but they cannot remove it because Ulpianus gotta have a source of HP regen somewhere.
I have the same feeling for Degenbrecher. I love Swordmaster as a subclass, they may have some funky downside of forcing them to attack before they can use their super big and special attack, but that what make them special to me, Ch'en Module and Talent help her and other Swordmasters so they dont feel much weaker compare to other subclass. Until the day Degenbrecher came and throw everything out of the window. Do I hater her? A bit. Will that stop me from pulling and using her? No, because I still love Swordmaster
I've also been a staunch Crusher defender since day 1 and love my boi Hoederer, but I do also love and hope to get Ulpianus. I do wonder if his talent is affected by boosts to healing recieved like his modules or other talents and IS relics though so you could lean more into it being an hp/healing survival thing.
Out of curiousity, if Ulpianus's Talent 1 read, " Restores 10% of the damage taken as HP; if HP is below 50%, restores 16% of the damage taken instead." would that be more in line with the Crusher archetype in your opinion? Also a side tangent for my own clarity, the issue with Ulpianus for you is it more to do with him having more durability the lower the incoming damage versus Hoederer(and I assume the other crushers) who don't scale with the amount of incoming damage? The whole "DEF-based" vs "HP-based" survivability confused me, since I've always thought of "DEF- based" as reducing incoming damage while "HP-based" is increasing the amount of damage you can take and by that metric Hoederer would be the offender instead of Ulpianus.
![Every New 6 star After Wiš'adel! [Arknights]](/img/n.gif)
i cant not laugh when seeing Hoederer's S3 description
the copypasta ruined it for me
Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
I wonder how it come a meme in first place. It's just because it's random humor or there's a reason that I don't know about.
Also, that nobody get me wrong, the meme's funny
@@vincent6263 I think it came from the league community ksanete kit meme
@@artygs1 I have to learn about that then lol.
Thanks for the information
Ulpi: "Every damage type is physical to me, so you better have high ATK."
Hoe: "Every damage type is Arts to me, so I don't give a shit if you have high ATK."
I see no difference here
Based
Im guessing its because Hoederer Loses 100 points of life per second, enemies that have attacked Hoederer take 200 points of true damage per second; +1 attack range, +60% max HP, +120% ATK, each attack restores 5% of max HP and has a 25% chance of stunning the target for 5 seconds.
I guess my view is that of someone who sees Abyssal Hunters breaking their conventional class restrictions.
If Ulpianus didn't break something of his subclass I would have been sad seeing as their whole lore and niche is "We blood-doped sea horrors to go beyond our limits."
They're probably the only Arknights Faction that as we get more of them they get closer and closer to their canonical story power and it's been a joy to watch that unfold from the start.
To list off some of the breaks the other AH do:
Skadi becomes a Helidrop Psuedo-Fast Deploy with her module. Effectively completing the multi-classing her S2 feels like it promised.
Specter can regenerate HP, Become immortal (Something wholly unique to her for a LONG time) and duel enemies that even today's Centurions couldn't fight.
Her Alter's Doll does true AoE damage and Slows compared to other Doll keepers that only get single hits of AoE (Kazemaru, Iana S1) or single target damage (Everyone else)
Gladiia has a three charge pull skill, something HG gave to another puller after her but was a limit break in Pullers before that.
Andreana... I wish she would get an Alter since she seems to be designed way before any of this crystalized and is the one hole in my talking about it every time... ;-;
I guess she breaks the generally low-attackspeed of her archetype? (God even Specter, another 5star released way before her breaks her subclass better...)
You're a great content creator and I get what you're saying. Just trying to share how I see Ulpianus (And AH in general) myself.
Try not to burn out on the people who just go "LOLBadOpinion". (When honestly it's not. Dude shoulda have had %HP-Regeneration that spiked higher and higher when hit.)
I agree with you. I said the same thing before, but suppressed it, because I din't think I convey it well. As you said, they are, literally the "Nanomachines, son" meme.
Also, for Andreana, isn't she's a "artificial" Abyssal Hunter, made by the Iberian, so that's why she doesn't work as well as the others,? I could be wrong about that though, wouldn't surprise me
can i take ur lunch
@@TakeMyLunch andreana is weird because she isn't one when she first release she isn't classified as AH, somewhere along the way they change her faction out of nowhere and never give a lore explaination either
As the biggest Gladiia enjoyer, she breaks her archétype convention by being able to be a decent lane holder. Pulling enemies during their attacks or skills canceled them, giving her another layer of survivability with her talent. She's capable to be in the Frontline, dishing good damage (thanks to her other talent)
tbh i don't think they're designed with that in mind? imo skadi is very much in line with the other 6 star dreadnaughts having a helidrop skill and a burst tanking skill.
several other centurions have self heal, specter's immortality is her personal gimmick like broca's arts conversion. i do think turning a DPS class into a dedicated tank is fun design though, gravel still stands out among executors for the same reasons
i think for spalter and gladiia it's just a natural consequence of being the first 6 stars in the class. silverash plays almost completely different to the other lords, he's more like a proto-liberator while thorns and qiubai adapt traits that were present in lower rarity examples.
andreana does attempt to break the class design by changing her targeting, the idea is that she clears hordes by nuking small fry and eventually being forced to target the big threat... although in practice she definitely feels clunky. i think schwarz and fartooth have more elegant ways to deal with similar problems by narrowing their range, plus it kind of works as a metaphor for focusing down the target lol
for me, the defining traits of abyssal hunters is brute force, before gladiia it would have included a focus on phys damage but she and spalter break that pattern. everyone's a statstick and ulpian fits right in lol. i'm not bothered by his pseudo-DEF since it's basically on par with ranged units and most of his survival is still HP focused
Ines sucked the life out of Hoerderer and turned blue.
😏
didnt know she was a vampire
@@rabies6418 It was a different kind of sucking😏
He meant "milked" not "suck"@@rabies6418
She's well known for draining endurance (atk spd)
I believe that your argument is somewhat cracked in its foundation. While I completely agree that healing a flat amount per damage instance is functionally identical to defense (ignoring poison haze), so too is sanctuary still functionally identical to RES; percentage based damage reduction. To me, these are equally egregious offenses to the subclass identity.
I'm curious as to where in your mind the difference there is, as it seems an issue of perspective. You're more than welcome to say the blue man bad, but I don't agree with your reasoning here as to why specifically. This video is well put together and while I do understand where you're coming from, I also think that it's very unfortunate for a unit and such a cool one at that to be rendered unusable in your eyes due to such a relatively small detail.
The difference between the flat hp heal and sanctuary is that the heal will be better for handling trash mobs compared to sanctuary. Let's say an enemy will deal 200 dmg, if you heal for 150 on hit, it is essentially having the same as 150 def because you're only taking 50 DMG meanwhile with a 20% sanctuary you will take you're taking 160 DMG. Sanctuary scales better the bigger hit the enemies does which is more in line with what the class is supposed to do, take big bonks and bonk hard back
I am aware that Ulpianus' talent is superior to Hoederer's concerning dealing with swarms of trash mobs, but Bloop's point was explicitly not how effective it was; only its nature as a close defense proxy. So I'm curious about his thoughts on specifically Sanctuary being a RES proxy and the difference there.
@@SarisWinterwisp I think it's because Ulpianus has access to that pseudo def at talent 1 instead of being locked behind E2 and that you can actually stack is healing per hit with a Sanctuary which Hoederer will benefit only from the strongest Sanctuary, which tbf 90% of the time will be his own. No matter what you do Ulpianus will always have one more thing to help him survive compared to Hoederer even if you were to give every possible buffs to them like Shining's talents,Skalter S2 , Perfumer's regen etc, Ulpi will always have that indirect def in the heal per hit compared to Hoedy's sanctuary who can be overwritten by another source
Technically incorrect; while I disagree, he made his point clearly and I understand it. In fact I agree with most of it; only specifically that the argument of it being pseudo-defense is poor due to him not adressing pseudo-RES, or alternatively for not explaining the distinction therein. There's nuance in this discussion and thinking I was simply calling his arguments shit misses the point of my message.
@@Pomho1812 one talent focuses on aleviating the Crushers weakness while the other focuses on making the crusher better at it's specialty, but the fact is Hoederer still has a defensive talent that gives him an edge over the other crushers in survivavility, just like Ulpianus, treating one as "death of the archetype" while praising the other feels very biased.
I honestly find the crusher sub class to be really interesting and I agree that Ulpian having pseudo def is something I don't entirely agree with either just like W alter hitting air for reasons you mentioned. When it comes to crushers on my normal account I have no reason to use them since Blaze S2 for example has like 1.8k atk or so which is usually more than good enough for any enemy with moderate def and anything higher arts does the job (especially since casters like eyja and gg ignore some res if they have high res too). However when it comes to Elite 0 Level 1 crushers have filled a role that I have needed since their introduction with their super high max hp and atk compared to my other ops. I didn't have a way to effectively tank arts damage from casters or really high phys hits and when it comes to dealing dmg even 200 def on enemies makes them problematic for unleveled ops so having a subclass that does multi hit and 670 - 822 atk is huge for dealing with them. There have been many times I use them as helidrops since ch 4 and continuing on into ch 5 to do both dmg soaking while also doing good dps. I wouldn't be where I am at now without them making me appreciate what high hp survivability can do even though like I said I don't have a reason to build crushers on my normal account.
I have enjoyed your in-depth discussions for various topics you've covered and just like on your "Arknights' Fundamental Issue with Progression" video I wanted to chime in my thoughts on crushers when it comes to my niche as well.
it was my niche too that let me truly appreciate Crushers for basically the same reasons, although my level caps were more arbitrary.
I honestly find the crusher sub class to be Consumes 100 HP per second and deals 200 True damage per second to enemies that have either attacked or been attacked by this unit. Attack Range +1, Max HP +60%, ATK +120%, and each attack restores 5% HP and has a 25% chance to Stun targets for 5 seconds
i feel this is a bit similar to how i feel about degenbrecher vs irene. while i love both characters, i hate how hypergryph completely broke their rule of swordmasters offensive sp recovery with degen and making her have auto sp. it was pretty disappointing tbh though it won't completely diminish me wanting degenbrecher. but yeah i understand wanting to make strong characters be more appealing to pull but i wish there was a way to do that while preserving the integrity and rules of a class/subclass.
Even though I agree with you, I'm wondering if her skill being a auto-recovery was needed to keep up in the long run, that they felt that a offensive recovery was too much of a setback for the gameplay they have in mind for later chapters and events.
Even though Irene can help clear Babel S-4 stage, so I'm probably wrong here lol
It make me think of one of the character they released in the new 5.5 anniversary. Even though she's from my favorite class in the game, some of her skill feels like another, but I'm still going to pull for her anyway
issue with that is then they would be thinking that the old ops would become less useful or even outright useless because they don't have the same recovery, and i for one don't think HG think like that, they always seem to balance the game around all ops for the most part.
@@ads3047 I don't think they think like that too. I think it come simply from a $ perspective and wanting to "sell" that unit to players.
Technically, Irene and Degenbrecher does the same thing, so, for a player, it could be seen as pulling for the same unit twice, so they simply won't pull the banner for a gameplay perspective, as it would feel redundant, so it means less money for the company.
So, they need to do a Swordmaster, but not identical to Irene in every way, so that's where the auto recovery come in.
I hope that I explain my point well lol. I also know that I digress from the point of the video, but I wanted to talk about that anyway, because it's interesting to me.
@@vincent6263 that is def an interesting idea, problem is Irene is not better than degen in any category, only thing she can be better is if she attack 100% of the downtime, her s3 come out just a tad bit faster, but else nothing she do is close to degen. Even her def ignore is irrelevant cus degen deal so much damage that unless enemy have like above 2000 def degen will just do better damage
They could hav given her a talent to recover her sp, like che en. That auto rcovry makes her like a helidrop, she is not attacking anyone at all.
don't let bro know about Mountain, Degenbrecher, and wis'adel..practically breaking their subclass.
I remember seeing some people criticize Hoederer's S2's stun being not as useful and then talk about the few enemies he can stunlock at launch. However that 1 second stun does boost Hoederer's survivability. Yes, you're not stunlocking every enemy, but you will be cancelling an attack every few hits, saving HP. Hoederer's fairly simplistic talents and skill design (even with S3's wall of words) is why I prefer him over Ulpianus.
Also, with Doc's release I've been pairing him up with Hoederer a lot. Doc will get his 150% attack while his S2 is enough to heal 80%~ of Hoederer's HP per use.
3-4 months later, RA2 was released, and the stun-immune excuse was destroyed. His s2 makes bosses in that mode a complete joke.
I watched this entire video for one reason. And I wasnt satisfied. Why did Hoederer not a single time go CONSUMES 100 HP
because i got the collectables that do damage during stun and increase the stun duration. So S2 go brrrrrrrrr.
@BloopsArknights I will not let that slide again. Jokes aside though, I have Quartz and Hoederer built, I will build Wind Chimes no matter what cause I play YanKnights nowadays and I dont like Ulpianus because of his appearance, plus Hoederer seems to be simply better than him, cause consumes 100 hp... ATTACK RANGE +1... Ulpianus cant do that, can he?
@@The158Outlaws I mean.... Hoederer loses 100 HP per second like a true gigachad. Ulpianus GAINS 100 HP.
It's a clear case.
Just for an illustration, 21% shelter against 500 damage means you're receiving about 395 damage. Meanwhile with 100 heal mitigation, you essentially receive 400 damage. Shelter works against both arts and physical, similar as the mitigation, except it also heals when you receive "tiny damages". Thus, the biggest difference happen when the "chipping damage" is lower than 100, because with shelter, you'll still receive damage, while with the heal mitigation you get healed instead. Although i think given your classification, i can only see these two mechanics as "HP based survivability" traits still, one is completely canceling small tiny damages, while the other is more robust on handling bigger damage. To each of our own perceptions i guess.
DEF as a mechanic is more effective at dealing with spam and chip damage than HP is, thus I define Ulpianus' talent as being DEF-based, as it emulates DEF's effectiveness against spam and chip damage.
Agreed! Crushers natively have nor res nor defence
But both of the 6 stars talents play with their hp pools finding diferent ways to make them more efective
@@BloopsArknights
@@BloopsArknightswouldn't that Make Hoderer's talent just RES based instead?
@@obsiangravel Yes, he literally says as much in the video when talking about Hoederer's Shelter, did you bother watching the video?
This was a really good video and I liked it, but I think you also need to look at it from other angles
1 ) What Ulpianus's first talent does isn't that different from Hoederer from a design perspective. Shelter is basically arts resistance that also works on physical damage, flat healing is physical defense that also works on arts damage.
With crushers having no defense and also NO RESISTANCE, both of them somehow get out of the archetype. The thing is that Hoederer focuses more on dealing with big damage, while Ulpianus is focused on surviving smaller enemies. You can see this on their skills too that goes to my second point
2 ) if you look at their skills, on s1 Hoederer heals 25% and is good for surviving agains large enemies. Ulpianus pulls enemies to himself, since pull force is based on enemy's weight, large enemies stay out and smaller enemies come to Ulpianus.
On s2 Hoederer stuns, that helps with slow attacking enemies, Ulpianus makes his talent stronger, that helps with surviving smaller enemies.
On s3 Hoederer has a long 70s duration and 5% healing on each attack, this skill is focused on blocking one or two big enemies and killing them over the duration, Ulpianus on the other hand has a 25s duration, goes to the enemy and comes back after the duration or if you deactivate it, meaning he goes in, kills the enemy if he can, and comes back before taking too many big hits. While this skill is focused on killing large enemies, Ulpianus doesn't really want to block them and take hit.
Hoederer is designed to deal with strong enemies head on, while Ulpianus is designed to deal with many smaller enemies and avoid long combat with strong ones.
3 ) and my last point is, being out of the archetype isn't always bad, but the way they do this is important. For example Qiubai is a lord guard, these guards deal 20% less damage to enemies that are not blocked, her s3 ignores this while SilverAsh's s3 reduces his defense so you can't block enemies without the possibility of dying. But no one really cares about Qiubai dealing all of her damage because she is designed to bind enemies and deal with them without blocking. I agree that W'alter hitting air or an archetype of medics focusing on dealing damage is bad, but there are times that an operator is out of the archetype while being well designed. Ulpianus's talent definitely is out of the archetype but it's not in a bad way.
Naturally you can completely disagree with my points and I'd like to see your thoughts on it.
One details about Ulpian skill 1 that I really like is the pull. It's a very interesting choice because pulling enemies when they are about to attack or uses their skills canceled them. It's a mechanics that few people know about. It basically act like a pseudo stun, and add another layer of survivability if they are well timed. And as the biggest Gladiia enjoyer on EN, the parallel makes me happy.
Also, iirc, canceling his S3 during enemies attacks, makes him "dodge" it. At the end of the skill, he get redeploy, giving the players an active way to make use of the survivability aspect of the skill
I know that the goal of the video was to talk about Ulpian and Hoederer individually, but I still surprised you didn't mentioned more about the Abyssal Hunters buffs, especially when we know that HG designed Ulpian with the buffs in mind. Having 20% + 22% (iirc) more base HP with the the absurdly high amount of HP crushers has is absolutely insane. And I didn't even mention about the 3,5% of HP regen by second with a stupidly high amount of damage reduction. Ulpian is perfectly usable without AH spuad, but he was designed with the buffs of the squad in mind, and I'm convinced that it can explain a lot about Ulpian's overall design
Edit : what I mean was that making him a crusher was probably a "balancing" measure because of the absurd amount of buffs the AH already has. It's tied to his identity and game design.
I'm not gonna lie watching pudding go off in the background has been really interesting
I still don't understand your argument.
Reducing damage by a flat amount is not fine, but reducing it by a % is?
Damage reduction is damage reduction.
The main point about crusher guards having very high hp is that they can survive extremely high damage hits, and the higher the damage the more effective Sanctuary gets. The only survivability option that crushers could have that makes sense is HP% increase, which would stay true to the subclass.
because reducing by flat amount removes the main weakness crusher by getting their ass beaten by weak atk, fast atk spd, swarm enemies. also sanctuary is practically the same with +hp% with more effective healing as bonuses.
@@afa12345What do you mean by more effective healing? Sanctuary only reduces incoming arts and phys damage by the percentage listed
@@yaboischrodi0618 lets say you have 50% sanctuary, when you're hit by 200 damages, you only receive 100, and your healer only need to heal 100, basically increase healing effectiveness to 200%.
This is difference with hp increase where you'd still need to heal by 200 instead of only 100
His point is that
Flat Damage Reduction is the same as an operator having defense
As he said in the video with if the flat reduction is 100
If an enemy deals 500 you would only receive 400 (technically)
But with Percent Reduction if the enemy has 500 damage and you have 25% damage reduction you would receive 375 damage
Yes his argument is kinda meh since Def does Flat reduction while Resistance does Percent Reduction
But he did point out that he was only talking about defense so yea
@@asophropyll so his entire point is simply meh, gotcha
also, Ulpianus will be even better when paired with heal increase passives. The humpback whale ofc is stronger than whatever Hoederer is supposed to be, and lore-wise, Ulpianus is an Abyssal Hunter
6:30 start of the video
I actually really like the healing talent. It adds synergy with healing increase % buffs and allows him to heal off of fringe enemies that do less than 100 damage. It’s like a weird form of defense with unexpected benefits. Don’t have him yet though so this is only in concept.
Sanctuary's true value is in not being able to be reduced by stat debuffs from enemies and also stacking differently from stat buffs. Crusher have no base defensive stats, but Shining and Nightingale for example can give them some.
Mmm…this video was fine, your stance on upholding kit design was well expressed, but I was kinda irked by your opinion that “medics shouldn’t heal”.
TL;DR it makes sense, both in design and character, to have “offensive” medics.
I think it’s a wrong approach to look at medics, in general. Some use healing vials, some throws you bandages, and some use their arts. There are many ways to restore someone’s vitality. And of course, that includes using your arts to damage enemies and heal your allies simultaneously.
I do want to bring up Reed’s arts and overall character into this, as it justifies *really* well why she easily fits the bill to be an offensive healer. Her arts have never focused on “destruction”. Her arts, specifically, speeds up metabolism of cells to the point of combustion. Outsiders may see it as fire and flames, but the essence of Reed’s arts is…life. Furthermore, with practice, she has even shown to be able to control her own arts to only heal teammates(though with decent toll)!
Vendela, Hibi alter, and Miya all qualify for that role. At their core, they all want to protect their allies, but their arts have developed in ways that allow them to still do the same duty but in a different approach.
All in all, while I think it was a great video, you could try to have a second look at the odd class designs you come across and consider any potential factors that validates its existence. Who knows, you might see that they actually make a lot of sense.
hell, if walter was unable to hit aerial units she would be an even funnier unit to use, rosmontis powercreep for sure but at least it didnt gave up on the limitations of the class.
It's understandable that you don't like it when unspoken rules and established design choices are broken. I agree with your argument in the case of Crushers, but sometimes the rules were a badly designed to begin with. Flingers should have been able to attack air from the beginning. Maybe they deal less damage to air, maybe the aftershocks can't hit air, but they should have been able to target air from the beginning. I still hope they one day change the entire archetype similar to what they did with chain casters.
Enemy with 1k atk hits Ulpianus, Ulpianus heals 100 hp aka 10% damage reduction and takes 900 damage. Same enemy hits Hoederer, Hoederer reduces 20% of that damage to 800 (no idea about his exact number) through shelter.
Enemy with 300 atk hits Ulpianus, Ulpianus heals 100 hp aka 30% damage reduction and takes 200 damage. Same enemy hits Hoederer, Hoederer reduces 20% of that damage to 240 (no idea about his exact number) through shelter.
Tbh the difference is miniscule, the only thing that can make a difference is how they react to fast attacking enemies.
I would honestly argue that Ulpianus' talent IS HP-based survivability, in that his survivability is literally based on HP. Does it effectively act like 100 Def? Sure. But it's still HP-based.
If his talent was just "Ulpianus has 100 Def", it would do the same thing and suck because it defeats the purpose. But by making it HP recovery, I think it's fine since it's still playing into their HP-based kit.
The thing that makes it stand out more is his S2 increases how much he heals by, effectively giving him more survivability. But if Hoederer's S2 increased his Shelter then it would have also done the same thing. They both function in similar ways, but are different enough that Hoederer and Ulpianus can fill different roles in the same sub-class.
Literally, if he's calling Ulpi heal talent DEF-based survivavility then he needs to be calling Hoes shelter talent RES-based survivavility, you can't criticize one while praising the other.
@@obsiangravel He literally does. But the thing is that to him Crushers identity isn't a lack of Res based survivability, it's a lack of Def based survivability specifically. So pseudo-Res isn't as damning to the archetype's identity as pseudo-Def. Did you even bother watching the video?
You are getting the wrong idea. The list at 2:32 clearly shows the defining traits for Crusher. Let's put it this way: HP-based survivability is the "general survivability" stat, and DEF-based survivability is "survival against spam". Think of it as Crushers in general have B "general survivability" rating (above average) but suffers an E- rating (fatal weakness) against rapidfire attacks. Hoederer's Sanctuary bumps the first rating to A (good), but his rating for "survival against spam" is only improved to E. Ulpianus' Talent, on the other hand, raises his "general survivability" rating a little less than Hoederer to just B+, but it also completely removes the archetype's fatal weakness, turning it into his personal strength even by elevating his "survival against spam" straight to S+ (exceptionally meta). The issue with Ulpianus is that he "solves" the weakness of his archetype, negating it completely whereas Hoederer is still subject to the vulnerability of his subclass despite being generally more survivable than fellow Crushers.
Ok I agree but lets ask ourselves here, if a character or class has a restriction that serves to only make their gameplay aggravating does it deserve to exist?
Take Duelist defenders who are categorized by their sp recovery being low unless they are blocking and they can only block 1 enemy and often end up killing said enemy too quickly to actually charge a lot of sp. Making them highly dysfunctional as an archetype and not suited to most content. Are they unique? Sure but you have to ask yourself is an operator having a restriction about where their power lies or because they need to fit into their archetype. And often since archetype ends up taking priority over power level you end up with a lot of archetypes that don't work or are too niche to function.
Crusher from the offset has not worked even in their intended role because of the fact that they are entering a saturated game where what they can do is often overshadowed 10X over in the current landscape of the game. Also I sort of see Ulpianus' ability not as a skill that works like defence but works to mitigate the core problem with crushers which is that high hp based defence doesn't do much against a high repetition of damage and it does it without being defence despite acting as defence.
I think your nitpick is just unfounded fundamentally.
I disagree that Ulpianus invalidates the "nonexistant DEF-based reduction" part, but rather, simply bends it to become "near-nonexistant DEF-based reduction". First of all, 160 psuedo-DEF is low enough that it's not gonna matter much past the early game. I think that unlike something where "Flingers can't hit air at all" - no matter what you do to buff a Flinger (or debuff a Flinger), it will do absolutely nothing against aerial enemies - Ulpianus without this talent can still tank mobs, just, not as well as with this talent (or conversely, Ulpianus with his talent can't tank mobs well, removing it would make it worse but it's already bad). It's like if a Marksman Sniper is released with 700 ATK (I think the highest is currently Exusiai with 668 after Talent), I wouldn't see it as a big issue.
Though also the class has like. 3 operators before Ulpi. Kinda hard to draw conclusions from 3 data points when it's not directly written in the branch's trait description
Swordmasters with only 5 entries is already enough for people to lose their mind when Degen came out with an Auto Recovery S3 despite nowhere does it specifically state that the subclass is restricted to only Offensive Recovery. It's not about what are explicitly shown but also the traits implicitly implied via their gameplay application.
The list at 2:32 clearly shows the defining traits for Crusher. Let's put it this way: HP-based survivability is the "general survivability" stat, and DEF-based survivability is "survival against spam". Think of it as Crushers in general have B "general survivability" rating (above average) but suffers an E- rating (fatal weakness) against rapidfire attacks. Hoederer's Sanctuary bumps the first rating to A (good), but his rating for "survival against spam" is only improved to E. Ulpianus' Talent, on the other hand, raises his "general survivability" rating a little less than Hoederer to just B+, but it also completely removes the archetype's fatal weakness, turning it into his personal strength even by elevating his "survival against spam" straight to S+ (exceptionally meta) where he can breath Poison Haze as if drinking healing potions.
The issue with Ulpianus is that he "solves" the weakness of his archetype, negating it completely whereas Hoederer is still subject to the vulnerability of his subclass despite being generally more survivable than fellow Crushers.
Ulpi's problem is that Gladiia already gives sanctuary. That leaves RES, dodge, and elem defense as the mitigation. Ulpi's current talent fits him as an abyssal hunter, but as a crusher he would be better suited with something like triple elemental threshold.
Part of me fully agrees, and Ulpianus talent has bothered me since he came out (I knew exactly where this video was going well before I clicked on it). On the other hand, it feels to me like Crushers are a very cool class in a vacuum, but less so in practice. Huge HP based survivability is useful for very certain things, like getting punched by a golem, shot with a cannon or arts damage in general, issues which other characters really struggle to deal with, but they struggle to deal with lots of physical attacks, whereas others don't.
The issue is that other characters have so little issue surviving low physical damage, that the levels are designed around dealing with this being completely trivial. Using crushers feels like deliberately making the game more difficult for yourself by adding in a new consideration. This is all well and good if you want to challenge yourself, but the pay off otherwise just doesn't feel worth it.
Conceptually, I think crushers are awesome and I want to like them, but I never find myself in a position where a crusher is what I need for a strategy.
(Side note: be nice to Reed, she's been through a lot. She's not even the first DPS medic, that's Kal'tsit, who is incidentally probably the best example of "this subclass in name only" as she has a bunch of random traits that separate her from the other single-target medics, not least the ability to summon a giant crystal monster.)
I generally agree with the sentiment as laid out. I think that Hoederer shouldn't have sanctuary either, though. What would I replace their respective talents with? I'd give Hoederer an attack reducing aura in the surrounding four tiles and I'd give Ulpianus dodge mechanics. I think this fits better with having alternative methods of damage reduction than their existing mechanics.
Can argue that the uniqueness of Ulpi's survivability is it's work against true damage, it's funny how you put him in poison stage and the green number keep pop up on his head :))))
to be fair ulpianus first talent is even more broken than the def stat because def is supposed to let the enemy inflict atleast 5% of the original damage while his talent let him cancel the damage.
While i do agree with your explanation i do not see crusher in the same light as you, crusher in my opinion are meant to be huge wall that hit hard and and are hard to take down like walking fortresses. Ulpianus's first talent make that feeling of walking disaster more important.
Good video started following your video after watching the crusher guide
Me when they give a crusher res
Imo def/res base survivability are both kinds of fun, just res is a bit less used
I do love crushers, and I used to dislike uplra.. uh .. the hunchback whale, but after seeing these two videos and people takes and opinions, I've grown to like him, and hoederer too
One has pseudo res, and the other has pseudo defence, both well complemented by their basic high hp survivability, but their santuary nor healing keep them for "surviving", rather just addons of their class, they're by all acounts vulnerable, tanking via hp primarily, but both kits get complemented by their pseudo survivability
The module helps that even more
So, your videos have made me love the class more seeing how hp based and resistance base survibability matters, and how the crusher class tries to adapt with their 6 stars branching out being slightly more defensive while still playing by their hp pool
By that I mean, crushers are hp based tanks, their identity has no res nor def, and that makes them great, and both 6 stars offering more survavility by playing with their hp pools in diferent ways
Let's not forget that Mumu can copy a AH team buffed ulplanus with S2 and have both santuary and defence, having the best of hoederer and ulpranus together 💕(lets ignore that they lose attack weight=block)
He gets out of subclass identity because his identity is still part abyssal hunter, abyssal hunters always have that really nutty buff. So he’s still a crusher but his identity is more abyssal if you consider it to the abyssal hunter identity. It’s not that he was made so much to be solely a crusher, he was made to be mostly the abyssal hunter identity, with crusher on the side
Huh… I’m getting a strange sense of dejavu… well, anyway
Last time I discussed why I love Hoederer an abnormal amount. I’m not doing that again, I’ll briefly discuss Ulpi this time. (If you want my novel on why I love Hoederer as a character; ask, but be warned: I mean it when I say novel.) I did say that I liked that Hoederer is an average Sarkaz. And with that I mean: he doesn’t come from a special background (royal court, important parents, etc.), he didn’t get special treatment and he has no special powers. He is just one stubborn guy (who is willing to become a villain without regret if it means a better future for his people, even if he hates what he does).
Ulpianus is completely the opposite. He’s a seaborn/aegir hybrid who was picked to be part of a group of elite soldiers to save the sea (and world) of Isha’mla. And him being an abyssal hunter means that, by design, he is stupidly strong, just by synergy alone. I… don’t really feel strongly about him, but he intrigues me. I’ve always loved the Seaborn events/stories and I’m really looking forward to his event, it’s not like we know a lot about him. Personality wise, he’s kinda a mystery, so it’s hard to properly analyse him. But strangely enough, he does have an overlap with Hoederer (yes, I’ll always come back to Hoederer). They’re both seasoned soldiers from a persecuted race (one more than the other), wanting to protect their home from an outside threat. And they’re both crushers ofc. In the end I’m far more interested in Hoederer’s story, as the threat against Sarkaz comes from human nature (y’know, demonizing a race of people to justify persecuting them, taking their land and forcing them to live in quite horrible circumstances). As someone who studies sociology I find that more interesting than a fictional monster threat. But the seaborn stories are also very high up there, I love me some cosmic horror.
As for his kit, I don’t feel that strongly about it. I’ll be honest, I’m not specially attached to crushers, just Hoederer really. But I can see your point in why him getting 100 def is stupid (and, I’d argue pointless, since he gets enough heals from his buddies, did he really need even more? How about another fun gimmick?). I’m not really sure what is more effective in the long run, def or sanctuary. Depending on the context the 100 heal is probably negligible, but I can also see it being quite powerful when used against weak mobs (a bit like a Mudrock vs Penance kinda situation?). I think they probably should have picked an alternative healing method (I’ve read the comments, there were some nice suggestions), though it doesn’t necessarily ruin him for me.
I’ll probably pull for him, since I want to build the abyssal hunters (before Hoederer and Ines, Specter alt was one of my faves - of my small collection of keychains she is the only female operator I have, tho I will get Ines hopefully soon). I’m not sure if I’ll get him, since I’m planning to burn through my 300 pulls for Wis (I need to complete the merc x family and spark regular W, I can’t do them dirty like this). That being said, if I get him I probably won’t build him anytime soon or even use him a lot… but I will keep using Hoederer and Ines (and their disaster of a pseudo-daughter).
Also, nice! Warfarin! She is the best crusher healer for sure. I built and m3’d her s1 for Hoederer alone… I’m sorry, I’ll shut up now, I swear I can talk about other subjects than that red head!
I may be stupid..
But isn't mitigating 21% of all incoming damage is just better than flat defense
mitigate is better in a case where enemy hit for 2000 damage every 5 seconds, while defense is better in the case where enemy hit for 200 damage every .5 second.
mitigating 21% of 2000 damage can stop a 1 shot but cannot nullified said damage, while even 100 def for 200 damage spam will half that damage aka 50% reduction, effectively nullified said damage, which is the designed weakness of crusher class.
While mitigate is gonna be better in a lot of case, his point is that def-style talent like this does not fit a crusher design, not that its better than mitigate
It's basically pseudo-resistance, and it's indeed better defense than Ulpianus when dealing with heavy damage numbers.
idk I think there should be units that are the exception to an established status quo, Reed being crazy dps medic to me is hilarious and in part a bit of what makes arknights unique, but I think the problem is when that carries over to future Operators in those archetypes as if admitting that the very archetype itself was flawed.
Then again, I never think of these units as belonging to an archetype their just their own crazy thing, it's like calling Kal'tsit a standard medic (I mean I guess that is technically true but nobody sane uses her like that.)
This dude thinks he can trick me into watching him talk about Hoederer and Ulpianus across two videos for thirty minutes.
He might not be right about Ulpianus having flat reduction (DEF mechanics) against both Physical and Arts damage to mirror Hoederer's percentage damage resistance (RES) against both Physical and Arts damage, but yeah, I'll watch the video.
For what it's worth, defensive talents aside, I do think the way Hoederer interactions with Ines (and to a lesser extent W) is more interesting than how Ulpianus works with the AH squad. About his only meaningful AH interaction is all his skills giving him +Max HP to make the 2.5% Max HP regen buff more effective. Which is strong, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly interesting.
Ines basically sitting behind Hoederer to reveal invis and bind enemies to buy him time to get a free attack in while he gives her 18% damage resistance is a neat teamwork/positioning combo. Meanwhile the AH are just "deploy all the fish, get giant global buffs."
Kal and Reed Alter want to have a word with you about medics not being main DPS
i love ulpianus because i looked baddass when i cosplay as him before.
I really appreciate you going through this. I got Ulpianus just as a random gamble and I really like his S3, serving the niche but prevalent use case of dealing with demonic spiders that sit at designated points on the map just outside of high-traffic lane range that typically do ranged Arts damage. He turns what would be 2 deployment slots into one, kind of like how Jessicalter is able to do sometimes. But I was always mixed on the talent (and Abyssal Hunter buffs), not because it isn't awesome or useful but because I don't want him to shadow other operators I use.
The use case that I used as an example if the enemies were doing low but rapid physical damage (designed to shred improperly placed high ground units) is better solved by Lin because she has an effective true AoE range behind her that can handle holding a lane but also killing demonic spiders, probably one of my favorite operators to use ever. Though Ulpi's talent makes it more reasonable for him to handle that niche as well. As I said, I'm all for cool operators that can be generalists but Arknights by its team-building nature should be solved by the interactions between enemies and operators.
I don't actually know how Take 1 looks like. But I can say this is the first time I actually enjoy your video & seeing your takes as "your opinion" rather than "forced opinion"
Anyway. Yeah, even though I love Ulpianus in design, lore, & kit. I do very understand the problem with "fixing" an Issue of an Operator such as gives Brawler 2 blocks, gives SwordMaster Auto Recovery SP, gives Flinger ability to touch Aerial Enemies, etc. Although I don't really care about that as I treat those things as a Bonus rather than their actually kit (I don't care how bad they made Ulpianus, I will pull him nontheles becase of design & lore reason).
When he was stated being a Crusher, I was like : "oh, the class that hard to manage. Well his S2 seems to be AFK anyway, & his S3 looks fun as hell. Great!"
Then when he revealed to have a "DEF stats" I was like : "oh. What the hell, I mean I'm not complaining though 🤷♂️"
Bloop geniuenly I wanted to say your awesome. The way you've talked about nogachaKnights is so wonderful and has really helped me get a better grasp at the more nebulous aspects of what makes an operator.
While I don't have anything to add to the crusher debate since I don't have Hoederer and am not entirely excited for Ulpianus I can still respect the amount of dedication you have to this one specific archetype. I can start to put it into the archetypes I know, or if not specific archetypes far more general waves. How certain relatively good units are antithetical to their archetype.
That is a really good point there really
When I first looked into the Subclass identity of Crusher, it was:
- A character that has a really good 1 normal single ATK (that being: high ATK, low ATK spd, and an effect that makes a solo enemy suffer: can stun some time (it can be playing around)
(so the upside is that they hit hard but can't deal much if there are many targets)
-Really paper with poke but vulnerable with the effect that shreds defense
(again, upside and downside)
-Can be paired with someone that can further increase max HP (somehow) but still suffer with the enemy that hit hard or true dmg ( I don't compare with normal op here because I think that true dmg still hit Crusher so hard that it not really an upside, they don't really counter or endure much better, they receive a lot with 1 shot dmg also being no def)
( so this also has the upside and downside. Both not much)
And then there is 1 thing that I like about the game when it comes to each character: they can break 1 or 2 things in their Subclass identity kit to make them different from others
In my view, the subclass is meant to be balanced and each character should make some change that either remains with the subclass identity but is extremely good at it or they can do something that makes their subclass identity just f and then good with most of the identity still true to their subclass
So in my view, the Hoederer is the one that stays good with their Identity and is good while Upianus just breaks something terrible in the kit to be good
More specifically the first talent of Upianus fixed the terrible downside of being too vulnerable to poke but if you look at the "ideal" target of the Crusher, they want to fight with a miniboss instead with slow and heavy dmg to 1 target while staying alive with stun effect and high health. The first talent in the boss scenario nearly doing nothing (imagine the 100 heal to 1200+ dmg per hit)
The case of Hoederer staying true to the subclass will still be there with his talent instead. He has insane high health and even a lot more with that talent making him more tanky with that kind of enemy and with support, he will be in a way better place than Upianus if we just let them tank the enemy alone
So to just sum up all my points, he is a very clever and tricky design
If you just make a tier list with the top being good dmg on hit/glass canon and then the bottom is like someone that has aoe dmg or just straight up aoe guard with the balance def and dmg to many enemies then the top would be Hoederer and at the middle will be Upianus.
I feel like I just being terrible at making the idea clear that Upianus is good because he is in the middle but if I can say more, then he is the op that you normally use to face with an elite enemy that should have high health and low ATK spd and that enemy is more specific to health or they have some reason to stay still or just afk so far away from you team (or not) and then either way, they will come with a bunch of normal mob that go with them
Upianus going to get the benefit of them going with the mob to heal back while assassinating them with skill 3, which forces him to dash into a lot of normal mobs that can poke him and he will rely on that to be in a way better situations than he should be without the first talent
Yes, I can fully understand that the Doctor here just wants to point out that HG intentionally cracked the "hidden rule" they made up for the op that made him not like it while I'm here saying that they made it so good that everything has synergies with each other and they follow up to make a one play style that is super unique that I once think of but didn't expect all other factions to make that op good or even decent in the meta. (My thought when in year 2 of the game was: what if you make a single melee op somehow can move in some way, forward or sideway, aoe is ok too but that could be too broken? or isn't it? and then I just leave the idea there, waiting for the dev someday to cook). I am very pleased with the character alone and this video even makes me appreciate it more. Thanks for the video.
Side story that doesn't relate: After the Texas alter release, it was obvious that Lappland would have the alter in the next episode of that story of Siracusa. I was expecting 2 things to come next: if the Lappand ever comes out, she must be the mech Caster (drone caster) that summons the wolf's head (Like the Boss in that event, in-game they have a full body but in the story, they only appear with the head, the end of the story end with Lappland about/ meet the Wolf lords), with all that said, a mech caster that can spawn a bunch of wolf's head that chase and attack at the same target with global range will be the only way to make Lappand really cool (and so they did that lol). Second, with the meeting of kal'tsit, red and Crownslayer before in the main chapter, the fact that Red has the mission to kill Crownslayer's teacher only leads to 2 kinds of endings: Crownslayer being playable or she will have some insane plot twist that will kill someone important or so. But if Kal is the walking plot already then I guess Crownslayer only has 1 ending then.
Wis'adel vs Rosmontis moment
This vid made me level my hoederer from E0 to E2 90 S3M3 and I do not regret doing it, and it also made me appreciate crushers, thank you.
While i like both hoederer and ulpian, i def prefer hoederer over ulpian for the same reason as you do. I was pretty dissappointed when ulpi kit first release and he heal on hit, heck give him a heal 10% of dmg taken would be better than this. But at the same time i cant help but love just how well his kit play into AH design, even despite the first talent. This video definitely makes your point much clearer than the first video, good job 👍
i love your idea of heal based on damage taken. It's basically sanctuary BUT it still can combo with heal buffs.
Or something like a damage cap can work (either a flat amount like 1500 or percentage-based such as 30% max HP).
Honestly, I disagree with the premise. Crusher identity was never “has 0 defense based survivability”, it was “relies on its hp for survival”. As the 6* representatives of the archetype, Hoederer gets pseudo resistance with his sanctuary (its resistance that applies to both arts and physical damage) while Ulpianus gets pseudo Defense (its defense that gets applied to bith physical and arta damage) they are both foils to each other that break one of the archetype’s characteristics in a different ways. I’d even argue that adressing the subclass weakness in this way is good design, actually, since it grants them both unique niches beyond what their archetype usually does.
The only thing is that Hoederer *feels* more like a traditional crusher. You don’t feel the effect of sanctuary as anything other than a bigger Hp pool in most daily content, but I think like thats a different point entirely.
I can see your point however. Abyssal hunter cool.
Me: Both? Both? Both. Both is good
Update on this. I did a single ten pull on Ulpianus’ banner and got both. Me being in the liking both club is thriving
Huge W.
If Crushers are supposed to avoid chip damage and deal with heavy-hitting, slow-attack elites and bosses, why do they have Block 2 and attack as many enemies as they can block?
Though if they didn't do that, they wouldn't be appreciably different from Dreadnoughts. And Dreadnoughts already underperform at the same role unless they have cracked Talents and Skills like Nearl the Radiant Knight.
I think Ulpianus' healing is a non-factor here. If the enemy does an attack of around 475 or higher, Hoederer's sanctuary reduces it by 100+. Effectively the same thing.
Yeah Ulpianus' effect can be cheesed by some specific mechanics like poison mist, but those instances are rare.
I think part of why Ulpi ended up not appealing to you is because his unit identity sort of clashes with his subclass identity. Specifically, I think they wanted Ulpi to be a bug crusher as opposed to Hoederer's optimized crusher.
10:44 's skill discussion led me to that conclusion since the way he works implies he's good at fighting both giant monsters and small creatures. Abyssal Hunters are known for both fighting Seaborn and having some Seaborn in them for a stat boost. This stat boost is most commonly seen in-game as hp regen which he has, in a way. Talent 1 was also probably a way to make him good at fighting Seaborn because I think it lessens both the undersea swarm, and Nervous impairment while his Crusher status makes him fighting large monsters seem believable.
In short, in-story he's supposed to be great at something Crushers aren't designed for and that Talent was probably their way of (making him strong enough for the fans.) maintaining the expectations around Abyssal Hunters.
Also, Gladiia took the dmg reduction talent so they couldn't give it to him lol
I'm really happy to see your content around AK's game design and i hope you'll continue to be honest about your preferences and passionate about your time with the game. You gained a new subscriber.
Thanks for the video
i didnt watch the video yet but i love hoederer hard hitting atacks (its like i'm playing with a monster hunter big sword guy, very cool) and it hits extremely hard
ITS BACK BABE *scream*
TLDR: healing on being hit feels like DEF, crushers shouldn't have DEF
mathematically yes, but in my opinion these are 2 different things tho. my impression on the crusher class is just they scale with HP and not DEF, so they are weak against physical damage. ulpianus' passive does not make him stronger against physical damage but multi instance damage in general, art, true, necrosis, elemental, and the difference between him and hoederer is just, hoederer hit people to heal %HP and ulpianus get hit by people to heal %HP. Ofc the later is better, and the AH buffs make ulpi even more OP, but depending on your impression of the crusher subclass, I think ulpianus works well as a crusher tho
it might make you happy if ulpi's passive is just %HP per second tho, but we already have the pizza cutter shork
Good video man, enjoyed the introduction and the analysis/comparison for the skills within the subclass, but I'm slightly mixed about the point where Ulpianus's recovery talent is similar to the idea of giving him flat defense.
His talent not only applies to physical, but arts and true damage as well. It also doesn't have a cooldown, so any rapid strikes or continuos poison effect would probably deal less damage if not negate outright. Also, the talent negates damage through recovery instead of damage reduction, so we might see interesting interaction from ops and enemies in the future that interacts or counteracts that.
But I don't own both ops so I have no experience on how they actually feel to play.
Salient points. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Honestly, Ulpianus feels like they should've made another 5* Crusher first to create a separate Crusher identity outside of the "Quartz => Wind Chimes => Hoederer" line. Maybe a 5* Crusher with a refreshing shield to create a separate identity line
Like, as an example, Lord Guards have specialized from Jack-of-all-Trades into Crowd Control, Support, and Survivability branches; all they have to do is add another non-6-star Crusher or two to split Crusher into multiple subclass branches
Unrelated to the video but the fact that lore wise Hoederer and the ally behind him get shelter because of the size of he's cheeks but Degenbrecher has 0 arts resist is a disgrace.
For me, i think it comes down to Hoederer, as you said, feeling like the final evolution of Crushers while Ulpianus feels like a Crusher that was forced to play nice with the other Abyssal Hunters.
Nice argument, however, When receiving damage, recover 100 HP; If HP is below 50%, increase recovery to 160 HP.
Why did that last 38 seconds get more feelings out of me than my grandpa's funeral
Genuinely confused about the distinction here. Sanctuary literally gives defense to the unit, but that's HP-based survivability? Ulpianus heals himself, so that's defense-based survivability? What?
So, I don't really know if his heal apply before taking damage or after taking damage. But if his heal takes effect after he gets hit by it, you can't really call it pseudo-defense, can you? 🤔
If Ulpian has 500 health left, and he was hit with a 500 damage attack, he would die before getting the heal, yes? So, to be honest, I don't see anything wrong with his talent. It still doesn't count as a defense. It is a heal.
But, if the heal takes effect before getting hit, then I would agree with you, because it would act as a pseudo-defense.
I don't watch this video because it's good, I watch it because it's unique (and good at the same time) 🗣
I personally love Hoederer too but about his S2 giving more control instead of insane damage. Can't help but notice that you don't need control when ur enemies are already dead.
pleasantly surprised to see this come out so soon. i already got where you were coming from with the first video (for those who havent seen my other comments, i dont AGREE with this take, but i completely understand it), but hopefully this one can help a lot more people understand why you feel the way you do.
also, i may not be able to enjoy crushers as an archetype (to me quartz is borderline unusable), but i can agree that hoederer is peak crusher design, so much so that hes actually fun for me to use, unlike the other two we've got so far. i will say though their module does exactly what i wanted crushers to do from the start, so i might actually start using non-6-star crushers once we get the module drop
5:29 im watching this and im realizing "oh right, i absolutely hate guards why am i here" but i like the video so ill keep on enjoying it
6:01 - 6:31 kinda curious then (since i do "hate guards and all"), what are your thoughts about Ray and her archetype?
Ray's awesome. She's one of the few 6-stars I have E2d and actually use. I like Hunters, I do think they're a fun subclass. Ray spoke to me mainly because her summon made her playstyle so much more engaging. I enjoy using her because of that added micromanagement. Although I will say, her S3 isn't that fun for me, it does feel too cheesy. Her S2 is easily my favorite because it leans so heavily into the summon. She's an awesome operator.
I'm gonna make a straight out of park comparison, crushers are like Darth Sion, no armor, pure health and damage, who needs armor when you can just take the hit and kill the target.
But with Ulpianus we can finally make that one JoJo Arknights video true cause we finally get to use Jotaro, Josuke and Giorno in a team
Its just my guess but i think his first talent is somehow related to his lore as an abyssal hunter, abyssal hunter have to fight under the nethersea brand influence so him having recovery talent is to counter the damage over time mechanics but cant say for sure cause he is not yet come to global. Abyssal hunter have to adapt to the harsh enviroment of the sea so when they fight on the land where there is no nethersea brand they obviously gonna be really strong. Maybe hypergryph is trying to make crusher while thinking about the lore so they came up with that talent
Clicked on the video because automatic subtitles featured a creature named Opanas. Gonna watch later to see what it's about.
Opanas
Ok, it took me the whole working day to come back here. Automatic CC are bonkers. I intend to coin Opanas as a legit name for further use.
Hoederer was never a bad unit, I don't have him yet but I borrow him from time to time. People thinking he's inferior is probably the same story as dreadnought subclass, block 1 low aspd made them fall off "meta". Opanas doesn't need his talent to negate the crusher subclass - once you throw his wife on the battlefield and he gets heald passively because he's an Abyssal Hunter. HG just doubled it down with his talent.
Guessing you dont like Mountain from the brawler subclass?
I don't like Ulpipi simply because how cracked he is. Having a bit of def is definitely goes against crushers identity, but that talent barely does anything in cases where you usually would want to use crushers, and does literally nothing if you add one welfare into the squad since he becomes unkillable. It's like complaining that thief that stoles your money is poorly dressed, I think there's bigger problems than that.
Dude powercrept Hoederer in half a year, even though Hoederer already was extremely strong (seriously, I have no idea who says that he's fragile and dying too fast, it was enough to play with him just a bit to see that this is obvious bullshit).
Well, you can always convert to Mystic Caster.
Ebenholz will never give you up.
Ok, take two for me definitely made me reconsider the design of Hoederer vs Ulpianus and I definitely see what you mean in def vs hp. Consider me more or less converted.
I do have ask why a raise to RES for crushers grinds your gear vs sanctuary though. Like I get it, want these guys to basically have no defensive stats to keep in with design...but wouldn't RES, with how it works at least, still work into a quote unquote HP based survivability, even if it is defensive stat?
As for medics not being dps...eh, agree to disagree. It's its own subclass with defined niche rather, im fine with it considering that's its special identity. Like how you wouldn't compare a crusher to a centurion even if they are both high damage 3 block guards, I would hardly compare incantation medics to a regular medic just because they both heal.
Especially since Folinic has had a damaging S2 for years now. Sometimes the best way to heal is to pull out a gun (grenade launcher).
He said *main* dps. Her damage is high enough to clear most crowds and thats what his problem is????
Im just guessing
@@lessar2721 hmmm, well. I can see it yea. At least for reed alter. Those explosions on s3 are hilariously horrific on FPS when given the chance.
imo it'd be weird if his hp regen was meant to be a fix for his lack of defense when being an Abyssal Hunter already does that
its all fun and games of rock paper scissor until someone in subclass bring a gun
Ulpianus sneaking into HG stat vault to get himself his first talent so he can more effectively mow down hordes of seaborn be like
While I don't share the sentiment I get what you are saying, it's a matter of principle, but would you be fine with Ulpianus kit if say instead of healing per hit taken, he had like Thorns passive healing? Just gauging what you consider to be acceptable defensive capabilities for the subclass, cuz I feel like that would fall under hp based survivability but still would be pretty busted nonetheless
Yeah that would be fine.
As long as his method of healing doesn't emulate DEF or make him less vulnerable to spam attack and swarms, then it's all good with me. Thing is with a passive healing per second, as it would just kinda be lame since most people are using him with Gladiia, so that overlap just kinda feels uneventful, albeit powerful. I would prefer if he healed a percentage based on the damage he dealt, as it does still do what he wants to do, but doesn't have that design overlap with Gladiia.
here i was, havent been caught up with AK for a while and ulpianus was released.
dam man i really wished he was a reaper guard
Calling healing a defence based survavibility is kinda funny but I get what you mean and tbh, if they wanted him to have hit based healing then why not make him Musha/Solo Blade? This class is also known for high HP and ATK
This videos argument is just fundementally flawed.
"Damage reduction is ok but flat reduction isnt!" Why? It makes no sense. Ulpian simply enjoys a stronger kit overall wich is the main issue between their comparisons but that isnt the point here.
This and your previous Crusher video had been heavy misses for me, i think you should make more objective standpoints on these types of videos. *And definitely not compare off skill damages of characters like the previous one*
Think of it like how Chen's Talent giving Offensive/Defensive Recovery skills a semblance of being Auto Recovery is still within the acceptable boundaries by virtue of giving less than 1 SP/s and keeping the "attack = SP" aspect, but Degenbrecher S3 outright being an Auto Recovery skill is considered breaking the archetype and an affront to the established subclass.
Not everyone has RES, but everyone has DEF. However, Crushers are the sole exception to this rule by being the only subclass to innately has 0 DEF, which makes it their unique defining trait. Therefore, Hoederer's alt-RES doesn't violate this rule as it is completely different from DEF, but Ulpianus' alt-DEF is effectively just "DEF, but better" where it should have been "not DEF" or at most "DEF, but worse".
Something along the line of Gater's second Talent where she receives extra healing would have been more fitting for Crusher if Ulpianus needs it to be related to healing. Alternatively, instead of healing, let Ulpianus gain a decaying barrier instead since it will still accomplish the same goal of making him better than other Crushers at surviving constant swarm yet doesn't completely abandon his identity as a Crusher.
@@xenotyphon Yeah just make him a fucking Soloblade with that Barrier thing. You are removing Ulpianus' unique kit because ''it doesnt fit with Crushers'' It absolutely does. Hell it fits more than DR because at least its still about his HP.
@@muratticugaratti1571 You are simply missing the point entirely and only want to reinforce your own pov without any understanding the subject at hand. Until you get better comprehension, there is no point continuing to yell into the void.
@xenotyphon Bullshit. You ignore Abyssal Hunters Regen gimmick and want to replace it with Solo blade nonsense because you think having HP REGEN on a class that's completely built around HP somehow makes less sense than stealing Soloblade's gimmick(Stealing Centurion's aoe wasn't enough for you I suppose) I'd argue his HP regen makes even more sense than DR
I think that the idea was to use something that isn't technically def, hoederer has shelter and some heals.
Ulpianus' passive heal makes him stronger against many weak sources of damage but he can't take hits as massively as Hoederer.
I think Ulpianus' heal is more useful to vounter environmental damage than countering smal physical damage, because being honest most situations that having def would matter, 200 def wouldn't do anything, I've had my Blaze with way more def than that instantly activating her passive.
But I've seen the videos of Ulpianus in those "deadly fog" stages and it's gorgeous.
I guess he does great in Stultivera navis stages with that nervous impairment floors since he actually can "reduce" that 1000 true damage from it and he would heal from the continuous damage.
So, yeah, it kind of works like def but it's real usage is against environmental damage, which is perfectly fitting for his character, he's MADE to survive in extreme environments.
at 1:18 . sdflkjsd what "crowd control" does meteor have. crowd control on may and defense reduction on meteor, maybe? crowd control and team support?
Not the precious squid daddy 😂
Something you didnt mention is that ol’ peanus’ second skill basically DOUBLES this mock defense talent, and it gets stronger when his HP is lower. Fairly tricky in my eyes.
yeah i didnt mention it cuz then I would have to stop praising him to then complain about the thing the whole video is for me to complain about. It's more of a structure thing.
Forget ulpianus or hoerderer. This video makes me want to build kroos alter
Well, if HG put ulpianus in defender class, he can be even more broken in term of survivability
Loved the vid and your perspective on unique characters! I do not agree with the "there are no bad characters" tho (general reason: contradicting kits or ops being bad at what they're supposed to excel at by "nature" aka class or subclass). Also, the whole argument kinda falls apart when *insert the shit ton of comments talking about Hoe pseudo RES and Anus pseudo DEF *. You can clearly see a bias when you talk about them being HP based ops with nonexistent DEF but completely skip the also nonexistent RES part.
While i do get what you are saying and there is a part I definitely strongly agree with, I will say for both of them break the archetype to me as crushers shouldn't have such a high level of self sustain, the shelter is fine as its a damage mitigation but healing means they both as you would say get Def based survivability, but more so it means you can focus on then less with healers and it also lessens the need for the great combo of Abjurers and crushers as they work well together and give a great reason to use abjuers. But now you can slap any medic even ones like Warf who takes health away, without much worry.
Imo they should get more shelter, dodge and stun to help then survive and keep healing to enmity ops.
The part i strongly agree is when ops like walter break the established rules like not attacking air units and while i do love reed i also see that yeah she aint a true medic, this means the need for variety is reduced and more 'lazy' strats can be adopted. I even made a post on reddit talking about new Archetypes and for medic went with the whole mercy from overwatch where you can revive from dead teammates(think module talent of dreadnought guards but where a medic can give that to an op with the condition that after the skill duration the op is retreated either way but with a slightly reduced redeploy).
But that said the beauty of AK is that if you dont like them you dont have to use them but yeah it still bring the issue like I had with lappy who i got in the first 5!pulls of the game, why should i build someone weaker when i already had them.
I just hope that this doesnt become a trend for the game and they keep giving use new and Interesting ops to play with.
Oh and not a critique, infact i respect this type of talks and content and commend you for taking about these things.
Actually, I think the talent might be worse than just giving him some kind of defence, because if Ulpianus was hit by something that deals less than 100dmg, then he would actually heal. This more or less negates any negative effects of the red mist or the originium pollution in the new chapter. Though that is to be expected from Abyssal Hunter.
hoderer is my boy, he does big bonk damage
Abyssal Hunter as a character really set a high standard to really live up to the hype and it's clear they want to avoid another "Viviana" where she was a complete failure to live up to the hype to her introduction with a very bland kit.
And we know Abyssal Hunter being super human level strong do come with all those stuff including the ability to regenerate their health back up so them including that in as a defensive mechanism makes sense.
But it's also one of those thing that's easy to fix if they want to address what you brought up. Instead of a flat heal per hit, they can easily make it a stackable regen like "Upon getting hit, heal 80 HP per sec for the next 3 seconds, stack up to 3 times" so after getting hit 3 times, it becomes a 240 HP/s regen, up to 720 and will keep going as long as you get hit but it will not outright become a 100 damage negation per hit so a barrage of blow at fast speed will still eat him up quickly.
There is a possibility they did consider like this at first but because the AH regen buff already exist, they are forced to make it a flat heal instead and to also make him more standalone friendly. This end up turning it into makeshift Defense but they cannot remove it because Ulpianus gotta have a source of HP regen somewhere.
I have the same feeling for Degenbrecher. I love Swordmaster as a subclass, they may have some funky downside of forcing them to attack before they can use their super big and special attack, but that what make them special to me, Ch'en Module and Talent help her and other Swordmasters so they dont feel much weaker compare to other subclass. Until the day Degenbrecher came and throw everything out of the window. Do I hater her? A bit. Will that stop me from pulling and using her? No, because I still love Swordmaster
I've also been a staunch Crusher defender since day 1 and love my boi Hoederer, but I do also love and hope to get Ulpianus. I do wonder if his talent is affected by boosts to healing recieved like his modules or other talents and IS relics though so you could lean more into it being an hp/healing survival thing.
HSR suffers with this as well with no clear identity to each path
take 1 was easier to understand for me
I like his third skill
Out of curiousity, if Ulpianus's Talent 1 read, " Restores 10% of the damage taken as HP; if HP is below 50%, restores 16% of the damage taken instead." would that be more in line with the Crusher archetype in your opinion?
Also a side tangent for my own clarity, the issue with Ulpianus for you is it more to do with him having more durability the lower the incoming damage versus Hoederer(and I assume the other crushers) who don't scale with the amount of incoming damage?
The whole "DEF-based" vs "HP-based" survivability confused me, since I've always thought of "DEF- based" as reducing incoming damage while "HP-based" is increasing the amount of damage you can take and by that metric Hoederer would be the offender instead of Ulpianus.