@@harleygarrett8063 I know, just seems odd not to align the thumbnail and title, especially given that Rhodes is the most prominent case in this whole debate
@@sebastianbaynes9452 They can use any thumbnail they prefer? They even mention the College gratifying a racist and paying homage. Like look at 3:55 mark and focus on it.
Sure, but acting like 3their was never any positives is still imbalanced as only focusing on supposed positive effects. It's become the popular thing to do in this political climate, like a knee jerk reaction to all the whitewashing of history, if we go to far the other way, which seems to be happening it will lead to alot of people with good intentions causing terrible problems much like every period of history.
Reality is that Oxford is so aware about their colonial past and the issues with Rhodes that it is constantly discussed within the student and faculty body.
why though, all history has slavery, it continues to this day, you literally wouldn't be there discussing if it hadn't happened that way, what about the current 100'000 slaves and 10-20'000 child sex slaves in Africa, what about the modern slavery that builds Saudi Arabia, what of their history of castrating black boys who mostly died from it, what about England stopping it.
I'm glad people go out and protest statues and not things that actually matter. Like income inequality, global warming, and marching for actual Change in laws?
@@jibicusmaximus4827 discussion should be permitted whether a problem will take 10 or 1000 years to be solved. And let's say if slavery can never be solved let it be regarded as much as possible through discussion so good intended people can lessen excess suffering by slavery as much as possible. Also, this pretty much sums up what many people want out of freedom of speech. The freedom to subdue suffering. An eternal expedition.
@@blznft9513 I'm just making the point action speak louder than words. People hate slavery but have no problem buying cheap clothes and handbags made in a malaysian sweatshop how is that any different than people buying cheap sugar and cotton ?
Getting paid something is better than starving to death. Cheap labor is outsourced because 1st world countries "pay wage" is well above that. This is why cheaper labor that used to be shopped out to China, is moving to Vietnam and India. China's wage classes have progressed. Just the way it is, unless you want to pay 50$ for a walmart t shirt and 4000$ for a basic phone.
@@RR-mg5ss difference is that they still make more in that sweatshop than any other job they can find. Also, they're free to come and go unlike slaves. It may look the same from your perspective, but if your living expenses is $1 a day, $2 pay a day is a lot of money. That's like saying why are doctors paid so poorly in other countries but 1st world country doctors get paid 200k+?
As a photographer and partially a videographer I must admit the footage of her talking is kind of weird, they use a wide angle lens close to the subject's face from a low perspective, giving the viewer a distorted perception and creating a little bit of uneasiness, the focus is on his clothes rather than her face, this could be a mistake but I don't know the intention of the videographer. Regarding the low angle of her walking I think is intended to give us a perspective of a human being next to such magnificent man made structures.
Europeans? Im european and these imperial bastards killed or exiled 2 million of my countries propulation, it still hasnt recovered. Japan was was a bit of an imperialist bastard too but they get a free pass? This is a good series but if you are talking about Britian talk about Britian, blame Europe as a whole is just kinda weird and unnessisary.
Exactly, Mauratnaia still has slavery to this day as I'm sure many other places do. That is black on black slavery though, so wouldn't make for good headlines.
Funny as hell, no wonder milenials get made fun of. Stop trying to act like history didn't happen, and FYI ALL nations and races have their dark history
@funbot I suggest you let other countries reflect on their brutal past. It doesn't make what the British Empire did all over the world any better and up until relatively recently, eg Kenya. So what do you say to the descendants of people colonised by Britain, still living with a British colonial legacy, and many areas are, it's fine, other people and Empires were bad too? That's no good to them. It's a failure to look at it from the view of the colonised that is the problem re Britain or England really. It leads to a lack of empathy and understanding. Plus still with the air of superiority. So that even now the UN has told the UK to give the Chagos Islands back to Mauritius, the UK cleared all the people off (sounds familiar), but the UK has refused and is leasing one island out to the US military.
@funbot Empires being there from the beginning of time isn't much good to the descendants of those colonised still living with the complex legacies of the British Empire in many areas. It would be beneficial for those and for Britain, England in particular, to recognise the harm done and not dismiss it as ah well, Empires have been there since the beginning of time. That does not help countries or areas deal with the legacy. Plus Britain or England doesn't change, because it lacks empathy and understanding and this has stunted its development as a country, I think.
@funbot Harm? All over the world. India and Pakistan constantly at each other's throats. Palestine. The Balfour declaration. Britain thinking it had the right to play God which led to Palestinians being kicked out of their own homes. Plus that whole region constantly unstable. That doesn't mean I don't support there being a State of Israel. It's the way it was done and that's because of the British Empire's imperial mindset. Hong Kong. That issue wouldn't exist without the Opium Wars. That doesn't mean I support what the Chinese are doing. But the original harm that created the situation was the British Empire. The Aborigines, stil marginalised, wiped out, treated appallingly in their own country. Likewise the Maori. Africa. It's wealth and resources stolen. It's people stolen. It wasn't allowed to develop itself so it has struggled to overcome that. America. The racist issues. Many of those stem from Britain's original colony there. Plus the racist attitudes still there are to a good degree coming from the Anglo Protestant mindset in America. Ireland. Language and culture almost wiped out. The famine. God created the blight but the British created the famine. Ireland pushed to subsistence farming meant the potato was the only crop viable to grow on poor land. The policies adopted during the famine led to a huge number of deaths, one million and millions had to emigrate. Ireland is the only country in the Western world that has a lower population now than it had in the 1800s and it still hasn't recovered in certain areas. Plus pre the famine, the Catholic religion was practiced in a spiritual way, holy wells, holy mountains and lakes for pilgrimage, it wasn't dogma based. There weren't even many churches. The population was so traumatised post famine, survivors guilt that Catholic Church dogma took hold which was disastrous for Ireland post independence. The policy of plantations pursued by Britain led to the foundation of Northern Ireland partition and a land border. Pre partition the British gerrymandered a border to include Protestant areas towns and villages and to exclude Catholic areas towns and villages to ensure a good strong Protestant majority in Northern Ireland. Partition led to a civil war in Ireland and Irish politics and the main political parties now hark back to that time. In Northern Ireland the protestant majority oppressed the Catholic minority appallingly, discrimination, lack of basic human rights, eg access to housing, jobs, voting, etc turning Northern Ireland into an apartheid type state. All under British rule. A civil rights movement was crushed which led to the Troubles. Decades of a dirty conflict with atrocities committed by all sides, IRA INLA UDA UVF RUC British Army etc. And now re Brexit, a hard land border threat hangs over the island of Ireland again and the first peace it has enjoyed for centuries, due to an aggressive neughbour bent on conquest. Just some examples.
Compassion? The video is demonstrating the danger of iconoclasm. Today it's the taking down the status of the politically and morally inconvenient. Tomorrow it could be taking the lives of those who disagree with such actions!
@@stephenkenney8290 ah yes cause that’s how it works. A book theorized that this is how it happens but real life tells me otherwise. My parents came from a country with an incredibly oppressive regime and let me tell you what, the statues, books, and whatever else that they destroyed weren’t of bad people. Hint hint it’s the statues and books of the good guys that get destroyed
@@stephenkenney8290 people like you freak out about these your country becoming crazy oppressive regime by taking things waaaayyy out of context. I wish you could live in a third world dictatorship for a year just to actually understand the difference
Yes, that is how it happens, and yes, it can happen anywhere. Notable examples include Japan, Italy, and Germany. I also may not live under an oppressive regime, but I am not fool enough to believe that my government couldn't become one. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance my friend. If you want to confront a terrible past, you do it with education and reform, not by tearing down reminders and erasing it from your records.
History is just that HISTORY, you can't change it, we can only learn from it and change for the better. Life changes as time go's by with different struggles and realities.
You act as if there are no intergenerational impacts from our history and as if history has not repeat itself. If you do not understands how impactful our history was to the present day then you need to start educating yourself
Please do a South African episode. I think people may find it interesting. I am a South African myself and i think it would be good insight into current affairs back home.
Whats to know? Colonizers came...used apartheid and gentrification to subjugate nationals and created an enclave for them to vacation to when they want more culture.....once met a white s.a. women and she proceeded to tell me a black american she was "blacker than me"....😂😂😂😂🤦🤷... pretty much all you need to know right there
Well now you do, perhaps if you stop feeding of the education propoganda of your state, you'll hear a lot many things which you never did before bestie
I feel like there should be an outdoor museum about this sort of stuff where these statues are sent after they’re taken down, even the statues are an important part of history, a reminder that these people were revered. Given the right context, these statues can carry a powerful educational message
I know there's a museum about slavery in the US, where most of the racist and slavist-related items are displayed in context. It helps people to empathize too.
I agree,… even in respect to Britains tarnished past in many aspects NOT all because Britain WAS GREAT & personally I believe we deserved the character definition,…but whom ever destroyed the at times gracious character that identified Britain which was likely very many, they should be the ones who bare the brunt of that ugly arrogance in whatever the particular guilt they bore! Even so,… they should still be remembered for anything good they did,…OBVIOUSLY & ESPECIALLY if it was life changing in a positive sense for the country! Like you pointed out given the right context they can still be rewarding for the educational system,.. but maybe pointed out as an aside along the message of praise another message that points out the persons criminal & hateful behaviour especially racial ! So the figure doesn’t need to be destroyed to the point where we no longer have any opportunity to learn of an important character in our history!
@@pez--- ok, so the natives, black and brown groups are good now? No injustice? No more complaints about the same group these men represent? Hm, guess all those thousands of protesters worldwide for the last hundred years were actors.
@Alpha Centauri you’re not one of those wannabe white buffer class types are you? Deny anything to gain acceptance by your white buddies? Anyway, I know your honored that you can share the same bathroom with the white people you identify with, but that doesn’t mean injustice and harm is not being done to other people (that look like you). You can still acknowledge injustice and have empathy. Ignoring it won’t make you more anglo sorry😐
How about investigating modern slavery and people trafficking instead of a rather underwhelming history lesson. Must be more important things to report on?
Well said! There are slaves today who need freeing and slavers who need killing. It would also be nice if they stopped using the term human trafficking to describe it, a euphemism if ever I heard one.
The point we are trying to make here is that focusing on historical slavery doesn't help solve modern slavery. But in my opinion, the presenter's iconoclastic viewpoint is extremely concerning.
Jesus Christ! have you ever tried shutting up for once? nobody is forcing you too watch it but it must be really painful too know that how most of the things that you enjoy comes from things which are so condemnable, fucking stop with the damn gaslighting mate.
That wouldn't make them feel virtuous. It is the past they use to beat us. Nevermind the fact that all her clothing came from a slave warehouse in the east. Nevermind that the recording equipment came from slaves. I think the future will look back at this period as the most hypocritical in the history of mankind.
You're right, they would of been the same...it was the environment so they would of been the same.. the same people that claim that claim "how they would be" picture themselves in the 1800s 1900s wearing skinny Jean's, tattoos pricings, other modern appeal, telling people off about how fucked up racism is..... If they lived back then, they would talk, dress, think and live the same..
Historical context would be different compared to today's standards, yes. However, this video is a recounting facts. What I got out of it is, it's important not to perpetuate the deification of historical figures because of a donation. They were just people, some much more flawed than others.
There’s legitimate discussions to be had and I would support a democratic decision making process within the university about how to deal with these things. It’s weird that she talks about celebrating the slave owners though... no one is doing that.
@@angel-light11 Wait you think having the statue there is evidence that the university as an institution celebrates slavery? Or the people that make the decision to keep it there are showing themselves to be what... Like wistfully looking back at slavery as some lost golden age?
It's simplistic and far too easy to judge people too harshly from history. Instead of doing pointless things like tearing down statues, why not try to understand, integrate, and accept it. And help make the world better. That's what adults do.
@Andrew yeah well some people also thought slavery was good there are always going to be stupid people if they can’t see facts they never will everyone with a brain knows slavery was wrong.
@Andrew the Empire has atrocities like every empire in the history of Earth, but they also done good things like bring laws, transport, economy, education, electricity, industry, healthcare, language and countless other things that if they didn’t bring them, the world wouldn’t be where it’s at today.
Lol. They can't tell you anything. It just helps to massage their ego. It's the equivalent of painting Black Lives Matter on a major road. What will that do? Nothing. These are cheap wins (which aren't even wins at all). But it is what it is 🚶🏿♂️♥️
Blackadder: "I asked if he'd been to one of the great universities, Oxford, Cambridge, Hull ... You failed to spot that only two of those are great universities!" Melchett: "That's right. Oxford's a complete dump".
Hey Empires of Dirt, I have an Idea on what you should do next. The Britains have managed to cover it up, but there were rumours that the Britains was involved with aiding the Nigerian Civil War expecting Oil in return. People don't know much about this, there are few results about this topic on the internet, please can you do an investigation on it? Thank you.
It's so disheartening to see people comment on her looks more than the content of what is actually spoken. More school curriculums need to cover the oppressions of colonialism because every time a generation forgets the detriments of history, it is doomed to repeat it.
@@EliteExpat Arab slave trade was even more luxurious and wealthier than the slave trade from 16th to 19th century, only reason europeans werent involved with it is because they couldnt understand how a someone could be owned by another
Taking down statues means re-writing history. This is not OK no matter where it happens in the world. The destruction of Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the Taliban government was universally condemned.
It really doesnt. You can take it and put it in a museum where it belongs. That puts the history in proper context. A statue of someone on one of the worlds most prestigious universities only serves for a purpose of reverence.
Statues are NOT history. Statues are a form of worship (state, religious, secular, etc). You're not learning history from a statue, you're learning vague IDEALISM from a statue with zero context as time goes by.
@@HitomiNoRyu You do have a point but statues and other historic structures are reminders of different eras that a country, civilization or a region has gone through. For example, Roman relics in many parts of Europe and Asia are fabulous prompts of rise and fall of great powers.
2:47 - Gatherings of over 6 people were explicitly outlawed in the UK at that time, yet very few people were arrested for breaking that law & the police didn't try to stop the demonstrations.
In our history books they say that the British abolished slavery in 1807 but the reality is that they continued slavery in other countries and also they never abolished slavery itself in their country
Stop bashing these schools and things that received money 200+ years ago. The past is the past, learn from it and move forward to make our world a better place.
Right?So much being uncovered! Almost all of America’s universities were built on land grabs and genocide www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/opinion/land-grant-universities-native-americans.html
@@user-rv9um5xc3r Robbing and looting the world for there wealth and knowledge by racist people then opening up unis doesn’t justify anything. Just shows European domination is controlling the world til this day. But don’t worry mis understood person history repeats it’s self and no matter how powerful every empire comes to a end.
I am thankful for the work your team is doing to highlight our troubled past. It’s clear by the dislikes, people are struggling to accept a history that doesn’t align to their pristine, savior-like roles of people who look like themselves. Many comments in this thread are meant to mute discussion and engagement by dismissing this as nothing new, but our past is very much alive and worth talking about. It’s good to disagree, but we should invite argument and discussion rather than hypotheticals and what-ifs the history didn’t happen. It did, and so we are left with our pasts which in 2020 still has a very healthy pulse.
I visited Oxford University many years ago and would not hesitate to attend the school if given the opportunity... or rather if I EARNED the opportunity. Check out wikipedia for information on "Slavery in Asia", Slavery in China and such. Slavery is covered in THE HOLY BIBLE, remains a part of our history and some even believe it exists today. As for Oxford, I consider myself fortunate to have visited the UK and been part of my great historical and cultural heritage. What sounds crazy are stories of Roman slaves who fought as gladiators and refused freedom even after winning it fairly in the arena. Apparently they enjoyed freedom... though, to be honest, ownership no doubt is better.
Yes, bad things have happened in the past and present and behind many great fortunes there is a great crime. The self-righteousness of some people is hard to take.
Only you can decide what you see when you look at those symbols such as the statue of Rhodes. You can either choose to see a reminder of what we can refuse to be and do. Or you can do THE EASY THING, and see it as an encouragement of terrible actions. Taking down a statue or exposing a story from long ago can only go so far. And by hiding the atrocities, all you do is make people forget the past and commit all of its mistakes, again. As people say, "out of sight, out of mind".
What’s so ironic and one-sided about this report is that the very human-center ideology that folks fought against slavery with raised directly from the economic prosperity generated by colonialism itself. Modern medicine, legal jurisprudence and even human rights are all the byproducts of colonialism to a certain extent. It’s extremely pretentious and irresponsible when people like Zing Tsjeng reap the post-colonial benefits while condemning the entire subject matter. All she does is pick and choose a fraction of the history favouring her current sociopolitical status quo at the moment. What makes her morally superior to a 17th-century slave trader who fought FOR slavey using the same exact political persuasion/maneuver in the name of capitalistic gains instead of socialistic ones? I used to like VICE for their venturing spirit and boldness, but this series is such a timid approach to the current news headlines and straight-up insulting the audience’s intelligence.
Years ago I watched a tv programme following a British black guy learning about his history. This found him in the Caribbean and the sugar trade, a plantation owned by a British family. That was the end. I found myself thinking that if we chase the history back on all our old castles, mansions and stately homes, you will almost always find their financial foundation includes a strong link to human exploitation and misery. What is to be the solution when everyone realises this I wondered? The wealthy who’s family own these huge stately homes and parks need to accept the only way forward would be to hand these places over to full public ownership. They should be used and enjoyed by everyone for public events and community cohesion gatherings. We should not destroy these buildings out of rage, we should use them as a symbol of change. Turning dark history into light evolution. A place where everyone can truly come together as an equal. I only recently found out my own history. I descend from white British yet now I have found 25% of my heritage shows my lineage is Indian. A Royal family that fought till the end against the East Indian company. This certainly helps to explain my lifelong internal feeling of being in a paradoxical state. We mustn’t rage for our past and instead utilise the rage by transforming ourselves to create a better future. We are all fallible but the key is to never stop trying to get it right for all. ✌🏼
the thing is racism is probably the foundation of most universities in the us and uk that have long histories. its something that we cant change... but it doesnt change the prestige of schools like oxford or harvard
Slavery wasn't based on racism - it was based on a technological and military imbalance between the enslavers and the enslaved - just like every other slave-trade in history. The British were not fussy over who they made their slaves - they had more white slaves than black slaves at certain points. Racism perpetuated slavery and was a factor in its development, but it was not the cause of slavery. Had the West African countries been sufficiently armed and technically developed, the British would not have developed the transatlantic slave trade.
Vice: "Rhodes exploited and basically enslaved thousands, justified his actions with abhorrent racism. Some people consider that homages like statues should be removed from public view." Comments: "HoW dArE yOu diSrEsPecT hiM aNd HiS mEmoRy? hE wAs ALmOsT a FaThEr To Me" Y'all are worse than K-Pop stans for real.
-Western education is like the proverbial naked king everyone knows its naked but nobody dare to say so because of their vested interests. the comments are a good example
But it's still the History of England, so it should not be swept under the carpet or eradicated from English society. Far from it, these statues of great men stand as a reminder about all they did or were in their lives be it good or bad. Surely we must remember the past, so we the people don't ever allow the same mistakes again, just as night follows day the future repeats the Past.
You do know you could learn about history from books right? Statue-based learning can't be that efficient. You must know that, right? Statues are for idolizing a person for their actions. They're not for learning, or for a reminder as to how not to act. Would you want a statue built of a murderer who committed the act just a few years ago? Jeffrey Dahmer for example. (I'm gonna assume you don't) So then why have statues of people who committed heinous crimes/actions long ago? You can't have a double standard.
But what do these people expect? When an institution is literally hundreds of years old it’s bound to have a sordid history. And while I agree that continued praise of villainous figure should stop. In no way should these institutions apologize for taking money from said figures. The institutions did not partake or instigate these horrible crimes they merely received funds to continue to provide education. Also a modern administration should not have to bow for the mistakes of their predecessors that is absolute madness.
Exactly. At the people who made these huge donations were advancing science, were patrons of the arts and were regarded as legitimate businessmen of the time. In hindsight their legacies are dominated by their profiting from slavery, but at the time, perspectives were completely different. Perhaps they should rename some of these dinners or put plaques up which shine a light on the dark history. But there is literally zero point in walking around literally ancient institutions and going “rich racist people paid for this in the 18th century.” Like it isn’t obvious. What’s next? Don’t tell me the monarchy has been home to racists, misogynists, war mongers, murderers. How about the Palace of Westminster? I wouldn’t believe anyone who says that many of the UK’s prime ministers held white supremacist beliefs? Lol. Churchill was one. You don’t need to go back to the bloody 1760’s to find these people. What was Vice thinking. This video was sooo pointless.
@Rachel Goldberg Ah but that’s different because the rise of nationalism in modern Japanese politics has actively embraced their atrocities and continue to celebrate their imperialistic roots. And meanwhile oxford university merely received money from perpetrators but did not endorse the values of their donors, at least not in an official capacity. And the difference between the Japanese and oxford is that the Japanese were the ones to actually perpetrate the crimes and then maintain the same level of justification of their actions enforced which they should be ashamed and condemned. And when I say the new administration should not apologize for the mistakes of their predecessors, the stipulation should be that the new administration does not continue the flaws of their predecessors, I should’ve made that clear. The Japanese following their defeat and subsequent American occupancy formally apologized for their participation and active role in their atrocities. However the new administration in an increasingly conservative and nationalistic Abe government has refused to acknowledge the extant of their participation and for that they should be condemned.
To erase history is to live in ignorance. I'd rather keep the statues as a memory of how we've come, and a reminder of the changes that are yet to be made. Pretty much clickbait bs imo, coz this does not pertain to oxford having any dark truths in recent years.
It's ur nic how I resonate with this comment the most in this video! We do need to preserve our history, however, we don't need to honor it. People have lost an appreciation for actually seeking knowledge. People should be reading about it at schools or in libraries. But I don't think we need statues to be kept.
What about leaving the statues and just replacing the plaques with a more historically accurate description of the person. Don't wipe away their crimes but list them to give perspective on the individuals
Delete? True history was never revealed!! So reveal it and take no part in the wretched evil of others. Injustice, inhumanity, plus time, does not equal JUSTICE or humane conduct! If times have changed, leaving room at the table for past sins is to empower that old evil all over again. These people have had their legacy of wealth and fame. That’s enough! Tell the Rest of their vulgar story and take them down!! All lives prospered in white privileged lands; and All lives matter because Black lives toiled and died and therefore truly Mattered✊🏿‼️
@@coled82595 it’s giving us the history to tell us why we should erase this history. Typical commie stuff that will continue until they see their ideologies confirmed, i.e. never. I don’t think you would get a Western majority for the removal of any kind of ambiguous or bad actors for any other culture.
@@Sheeshening Recognizing history ≠ erasing history You just don't like that the history you mistakingly believed was true is now being corrected. You're scared of truth. You're scared of being forced to recognize that the people and societies that you once believed were good were actually not. You're frightened and ignorant. I pity you, my boy.
Sad but true, unfortunately it was a different time back then and the was the norm. Most institutions around the world had their dirty little fingers in the slave trade pie.
@Nick Arjomand 0:33 It tells you right in the beginning what "Empire of Dirt" series is all about...and you're shocked that this video focuses on European institutions??? Congrats! You literally missed the fucking point!
@@HitomiNoRyu well, that's the problem. There are not enough series that focus on non-European institutions. I've honestly had enough of "European people bad! give black people reparations! ". It's about time we start saying "Turkish people bad! give balkan people reparations!". The Balkans are a shithole because the ottoman empire oppressed them for centuries and kept them away from the enlightenment and the industrial revolution.
@@nickb1156 Since people have a Eurocentric view they don't know much about Turkey and probably don't care about another countries problems when their own country has plenty.
@@nickb1156 Ah you committed the classic Whataboutery fallacy~! A common tactic but very unhelpful to any argument for all parties involved. Just because you mention a completely different and unrelated topic doesn't mean the original topic lost any merit as a result. You just wasted everyone's time.
I find myself half screaming explanations/counter arguments at almost all the point made.. it's so disgusting how badly all the historically contexts are explained throughout the video
It is indeed sad that modern day society was made upon others sufferings, but complaining wouldn't solve anything, it is better to move on, denounce the past, prevent and stopping anything similar while keeping progress using what's left by past societies 👍
As one cannot change history, we have to view the "slave trade" as it was seen then. Society condoned the buying and selling of human beings during this dark period, so it would be wrong, in my humble view, if individuals who profited from this ghastly practice are pilloried now. It boils down to what the convention was at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Yes, and which country was the first to allow women to vote? What's that? Oh yes, the Isle of Man, in the British Isles. Which people pioneered education for women? There are so many examples of great things done, including moral advancements, by the British people. This documentary seems very one-sided. If one approaches history with a lot of resentment to begin with, his/her confirmation bias will probably only make him/her more resentful....
Yea, I couldn't study at Oxford for a minute if there are these kind of statues around. My inner blackness/asianess would revolte and my eternal victimhood would cry "respect me for what I'm not". Lost generation, really..
She has a particular way of examining history. It's an interesting perspective but I don't think it makes good educational videos. Over explains modern perspectives, loves buzz words without explaining detail and glosses over complex topics with arrogant confidence.
why does this matter? can someone logically explain to me why a universitys past matter? who funded them and their alleged ties to whatever the british did in the past, do these people not have more important things to do?
Thank you Vice news... For unraveling European colonialism, there atrocities, brutality on whole of remaining world. We know that their wealth,industrialisation, development is based on blood & corpses of millions of black,Asian & native American, aboriginal people. 😢😢😢
@@NoName-hg6cc I’m fully aware of them but in the big picture the British Empire has made a monumental impact on the world and has further advanced civilization, law and innovation. Of all the empires in history, the British Empire was the mildest and left it’s former colonies the most better off compared to the French or the Spanish. Oxford is a world respected university and if you hate the British empire so much and it’s past, it’s rather foolish to attend its foremost academic center. If you don’t like Islam, don’t go to Mecca. It’s that simple!
@@jonathanmorgan6565 Of all the empires, british empire was the one who made the least positive impact on the world. It was the most vicious, cruel and disgusting crime syndicate ever existed. The colonies argument is bs and not even particularly true: look at uk Africa colonies... Oxford is what it is thank to money stolen and plundered richness around the world. The least it could do it's recognize this. Easy
@@NoName-hg6cc 1) every nation and people has conquered and plundered with Britain itself conquered and plundered for almost two millennia prior to the rise of the British Empire. Doing such is the norm and not some sort of moral indictment that is specific to the British Empire. 2) Its absolutely evident that former British colonies are much more prosperous and free than nations with no British past. Argentina and Australia are both settler colonies of the British and Spanish empires. The legal and economic structures of both nations are completely different, yet the average Australian is much better off and more free than the average Argentine. You cannot tell me that the India of today could not be possible without British influence and institutions to build off of. In fact, the Indian state closely models British styles of law and governance. The African colonies of the UK, have much higher qualities of life than the their neighbors. The highest GDP’s in Africa are nations that were under the strongest British influence.
@@jonathanmorgan6565 1) Everyone did, true. Nowadays though other nations learned from past mistakes. uk didn't. 2) Ahahahahahaha again, that's not true and it has nothing to do with uk itself: the areas had already better infrastructure than any other part if the world. Argentina is Italian and Spanish, not English. Chile is Spanish. Both are quite good. Australia had his native population almost wiped out. Go see Bangladesh. Compare it with Tunisi. Or Eritrea. Or, again, Chile. India would have been way better off than today without uk nasty jackboot over its head for a century. Compare Sudan with Mexico. Who's better? With Tunisia or Morocco: who has better quality of life? Want to do the same with Botswana or Cameroon? The state who suffered less were the ones NOT under uk's vicious rule
@@pikerkiler because no video ever in the history of all of humanity should or could talk about more then one thing cause that would be absolutely outrageous. Obviously they knew the difference they went to both sites in the videos they honestly probably just thought the one in front of Cambridge looked better
@@jo18533 sounds like a racist troll assumes he knows enough about the legacy of colonialism. How has any country done just after it's deposed authoritarianism? Probably swapped one type for another, is what.
@@Chadevereux You didn't answer my question. Ireland had no problem 'after it deposed authoritarianism'. The English colonized them for 800 years, now they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And certainly have no problem with farming.
We are very amused, because not a single one of us was alive when slavery was going on at this time. We did not not nor ever will agree with what they did, different times, different people, different morals. Get over it.
@@charlottebruce979 unfortunately we can't. It's been just 74 since last of you people left and you have left a nation partitioned. The history of colonialism is not taught to you. Just imagine that there's even native American saying that " if you see two fishes fighting, then surely an Englishman has passed that way". We are not asking for compensation, but surely we reserve the right to criticize.
@@alenorraiden1 the Indian subcontinent was never a nation state. It never had single unifying identity, culture, language, religion or central governance. It was made up of separate states that were sometimes aligned, often not. But, if you insist, you and your religious zealots 'divided' yourselves willingly. From my point of view, what never existed as one cannot be 'divided'.
‘The unfortunate truth about Oxford University’
*Thumbnail shows picture of Jesus College, Cambridge*
This👆
3:55 It's not like they don't talk about it
didn't make it to the 3:55 mark?
@@harleygarrett8063 I know, just seems odd not to align the thumbnail and title, especially given that Rhodes is the most prominent case in this whole debate
@@sebastianbaynes9452 They can use any thumbnail they prefer? They even mention the College gratifying a racist and paying homage. Like look at 3:55 mark and focus on it.
Erasing the past doesn't help the future. But learning from it does.
Cutting down statues, which honor assholes is NOT erasing the past.
Sure, but acting like 3their was never any positives is still imbalanced as only focusing on supposed positive effects. It's become the popular thing to do in this political climate, like a knee jerk reaction to all the whitewashing of history, if we go to far the other way, which seems to be happening it will lead to alot of people with good intentions causing terrible problems much like every period of history.
@@bene20080 Statues do not have to honor. They should be figures of history, which have explanations and lessons.
@Bill Jones OR, use those statues as examples of wrongdoings, not full out erase whatever we currently want.
@@bene20080 We should just stop letting in blacks from Africa and the Caribbean who hate our history
Reality is that Oxford is so aware about their colonial past and the issues with Rhodes that it is constantly discussed within the student and faculty body.
why though, all history has slavery, it continues to this day, you literally wouldn't be there discussing if it hadn't happened that way, what about the current 100'000 slaves and 10-20'000 child sex slaves in Africa, what about the modern slavery that builds Saudi Arabia, what of their history of castrating black boys who mostly died from it, what about England stopping it.
I'm glad people go out and protest statues and not things that actually matter. Like income inequality, global warming, and marching for actual Change in laws?
@@jibicusmaximus4827 discussion should be permitted whether a problem will take 10 or 1000 years to be solved. And let's say if slavery can never be solved let it be regarded as much as possible through discussion so good intended people can lessen excess suffering by slavery as much as possible. Also, this pretty much sums up what many people want out of freedom of speech. The freedom to subdue suffering. An eternal expedition.
@@jibicusmaximus4827 Some of these may not be convincing.
And what is the outcome of these discussions?
What about the slave labour that makes everyone's clothes and smart phones ?
Stop trying to justify it by comparing. That's a whole different topic
@@blznft9513 I'm just making the point action speak louder than words.
People hate slavery but have no problem buying cheap clothes and handbags made in a malaysian sweatshop how is that any different than people buying cheap sugar and cotton ?
@@RR-mg5ss it isn’t different, you’re right to raise these questions
Getting paid something is better than starving to death. Cheap labor is outsourced because 1st world countries "pay wage" is well above that. This is why cheaper labor that used to be shopped out to China, is moving to Vietnam and India. China's wage classes have progressed. Just the way it is, unless you want to pay 50$ for a walmart t shirt and 4000$ for a basic phone.
@@RR-mg5ss difference is that they still make more in that sweatshop than any other job they can find. Also, they're free to come and go unlike slaves. It may look the same from your perspective, but if your living expenses is $1 a day, $2 pay a day is a lot of money. That's like saying why are doctors paid so poorly in other countries but 1st world country doctors get paid 200k+?
These camera angles have me feeling 8 years old
Why do they do that to her? 🙄
@@vhead612 Because so you think she's important: the audience viewing her from below.
@@gs7828 vice pulling a sneaky one on us.
As a photographer and partially a videographer I must admit the footage of her talking is kind of weird, they use a wide angle lens close to the subject's face from a low perspective, giving the viewer a distorted perception and creating a little bit of uneasiness, the focus is on his clothes rather than her face, this could be a mistake but I don't know the intention of the videographer. Regarding the low angle of her walking I think is intended to give us a perspective of a human being next to such magnificent man made structures.
The whole thing feel so patronising, like it’s an important topic to talk about but it’s presented in the completely wrong way
She looks like shes shooting a hip hop video from the 90s from the way camera is angled
Because she’s 4ft tall
Because that’s the most important of the video
Probably her child recording
She? Thats a man baby!
@@fresatx IT'S MA'AN
Wait when she finds out who funds vice and where their money comes from.
or wht wage slaves threaded her clothes
@midas mixuk th 3rd wurdl idiot!
Europeans? Im european and these imperial bastards killed or exiled 2 million of my countries propulation, it still hasnt recovered. Japan was was a bit of an imperialist bastard too but they get a free pass? This is a good series but if you are talking about Britian talk about Britian, blame Europe as a whole is just kinda weird and unnessisary.
jimmy Ryan it wasn’t just Britain though. it was Europe as whole.
so who is it that you’re talking about?
Why isn't there a damn thing done about CURRENT SLAVERY?
Exactly, Mauratnaia still has slavery to this day as I'm sure many other places do. That is black on black slavery though, so wouldn't make for good headlines.
Because its not anti white - haven't noticed that Vice is a bit bias
@Kushagra Amol whatever mud hut you came from will probably fade first. Whoops.
@@AlexCS593 oof
In Africa slavery is alive more than ever
Imagine looking at a university that’s nearly a thousand years old and being disgusted it doesn’t have a spotless history
Funny as hell, no wonder milenials get made fun of. Stop trying to act like history didn't happen, and FYI ALL nations and races have their dark history
Spotless history?
Disgraceful history.
What's more disgraceful is that it obviously hasn't faced its connections with Britain's brutal imperial past.
@funbot
I suggest you let other countries reflect on their brutal past.
It doesn't make what the British Empire did all over the world any better and up until relatively recently, eg Kenya.
So what do you say to the descendants of people colonised by Britain, still living with a British colonial legacy, and many areas are, it's fine, other people and Empires were bad too? That's no good to them. It's a failure to look at it from the view of the colonised that is the problem re Britain or England really. It leads to a lack of empathy and understanding. Plus still with the air of superiority.
So that even now the UN has told the UK to give the Chagos Islands back to Mauritius, the UK cleared all the people off (sounds familiar), but the UK has refused and is leasing one island out to the US military.
@funbot
Empires being there from the beginning of time isn't much good to the descendants of those colonised still living with the complex legacies of the British Empire in many areas.
It would be beneficial for those and for Britain, England in particular, to recognise the harm done and not dismiss it as ah well, Empires have been there since the beginning of time. That does not help countries or areas deal with the legacy.
Plus Britain or England doesn't change, because it lacks empathy and understanding and this has stunted its development as a country, I think.
@funbot
Harm?
All over the world.
India and Pakistan constantly at each other's throats.
Palestine. The Balfour declaration. Britain thinking it had the right to play God which led to Palestinians being kicked out of their own homes. Plus that whole region constantly unstable. That doesn't mean I don't support there being a State of Israel. It's the way it was done and that's because of the British Empire's imperial mindset.
Hong Kong. That issue wouldn't exist without the Opium Wars. That doesn't mean I support what the Chinese are doing. But the original harm that created the situation was the British Empire.
The Aborigines, stil marginalised, wiped out, treated appallingly in their own country.
Likewise the Maori.
Africa. It's wealth and resources stolen. It's people stolen. It wasn't allowed to develop itself so it has struggled to overcome that.
America. The racist issues. Many of those stem from Britain's original colony there. Plus the racist attitudes still there are to a good degree coming from the Anglo Protestant mindset in America.
Ireland. Language and culture almost wiped out. The famine. God created the blight but the British created the famine. Ireland pushed to subsistence farming meant the potato was the only crop viable to grow on poor land. The policies adopted during the famine led to a huge number of deaths, one million and millions had to emigrate. Ireland is the only country in the Western world that has a lower population now than it had in the 1800s and it still hasn't recovered in certain areas.
Plus pre the famine, the Catholic religion was practiced in a spiritual way, holy wells, holy mountains and lakes for pilgrimage, it wasn't dogma based. There weren't even many churches. The population was so traumatised post famine, survivors guilt that Catholic Church dogma took hold which was disastrous for Ireland post independence.
The policy of plantations pursued by Britain led to the foundation of Northern Ireland partition and a land border.
Pre partition the British gerrymandered a border to include Protestant areas towns and villages and to exclude Catholic areas towns and villages to ensure a good strong Protestant majority in Northern Ireland.
Partition led to a civil war in Ireland and Irish politics and the main political parties now hark back to that time.
In Northern Ireland the protestant majority oppressed the Catholic minority appallingly, discrimination, lack of basic human rights, eg access to housing, jobs, voting, etc turning Northern Ireland into an apartheid type state. All under British rule.
A civil rights movement was crushed which led to the Troubles. Decades of a dirty conflict with atrocities committed by all sides, IRA INLA UDA UVF RUC British Army etc.
And now re Brexit, a hard land border threat hangs over the island of Ireland again and the first peace it has enjoyed for centuries, due to an aggressive neughbour bent on conquest.
Just some examples.
Yep, people did shitty things to get rich in the past. Totally not the case today though. Oh, wait...
Shitty things in the past is probably the biggest understatement of the century to describe crimes of UK 😂
the pyramids of Egypt were built by countless slaves but no one ever talks about that....
I like when white British citizen get offended when ridiculed for murderous history haha stay mad 👍🏼
@@arthurias7693 No, they weren't. They were built by well compensated skilled craftsmen.
Take a look at the Mongols, or the Romans. Honestly, the British empire, as bad as they were, was pretty tame in comparison.
You mean to tell me that rich people back then have attended the most prestigious colleges of that time? Whoa lol
You mean to tell me that the point of the video went over your head? Show your compassion for fellow humans man
Compassion? The video is demonstrating the danger of iconoclasm. Today it's the taking down the status of the politically and morally inconvenient. Tomorrow it could be taking the lives of those who disagree with such actions!
@@stephenkenney8290 ah yes cause that’s how it works. A book theorized that this is how it happens but real life tells me otherwise. My parents came from a country with an incredibly oppressive regime and let me tell you what, the statues, books, and whatever else that they destroyed weren’t of bad people. Hint hint it’s the statues and books of the good guys that get destroyed
@@stephenkenney8290 people like you freak out about these your country becoming crazy oppressive regime by taking things waaaayyy out of context. I wish you could live in a third world dictatorship for a year just to actually understand the difference
Yes, that is how it happens, and yes, it can happen anywhere. Notable examples include Japan, Italy, and Germany. I also may not live under an oppressive regime, but I am not fool enough to believe that my government couldn't become one. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance my friend. If you want to confront a terrible past, you do it with education and reform, not by tearing down reminders and erasing it from your records.
Why does Vice go out of their way to hire people who look like they work at an urban outfitters?
Because Vice headquarters is located in hipster brooklyn
You should be paying attention on what she’s telling. Not what’s she’s wearing. How easily distracted 🙄
@@jeonlyxoxo it’s a joke, relax
She's the executive editor of Vice UK.... who else is going to present the segment that she created ?
@@jeonlyxoxo obviously her dress sense sucks
In my recommended just after I got rejected by them 😂
Lol
Who cares not like colleges will be the same after Covid. Exposed the system
Man let's jump them
Good dose of schadenfreude 😀
@@valeriezhang6359 if your family disowns you after this you can always live with me babe 😎
I’m sure you are so much better than Oxford. Forget those losers.
When are you going to talk about China imperialism and literally ethnic cleansing since its beginnings
When they start talking about U.S imperialism which they never will.
@Walker Nicholas Barrdo you realize that the us is one giant colony?
She is just mimicking how BBC use gray color filter to shoot every Chinese news
@Walker Nicholas Barr oh wow “the western cultures ended slavery” so black people should be grateful is that what you’re thinking?
@@hannahw4950 Yes. Not black people. The entire world should be grateful. And not just to the western world but to the British Empire
History is just that HISTORY, you can't change it, we can only learn from it and change for the better. Life changes as time go's by with different struggles and realities.
Wait until u see the HISTORY repeats itself when humans colonize other planets.
@@Hollow00000 ok, well let me know when that happens and I'll be all for protesting enslaving aliens.
You act as if there are no intergenerational impacts from our history and as if history has not repeat itself. If you do not understands how impactful our history was to the present day then you need to start educating yourself
lol
True, but we don’t need shrines reminding ourselves about it
Please do a South African episode. I think people may find it interesting. I am a South African myself and i think it would be good insight into current affairs back home.
yeah, walk downtown jo burg
She is a spy, she just want to make a civil war in Europe and US
@@teukuazmi7271 bingo
Whats to know? Colonizers came...used apartheid and gentrification to subjugate nationals and created an enclave for them to vacation to when they want more culture.....once met a white s.a. women and she proceeded to tell me a black american she was "blacker than me"....😂😂😂😂🤦🤷... pretty much all you need to know right there
Please go to hell.
Never heard the word 'racist' said this many times
welcome to 2021 everythings racist bro
bc u are WHITE
@@bispo5671 I'm literally not lmao
Well now you do, perhaps if you stop feeding of the education propoganda of your state, you'll hear a lot many things which you never did before bestie
The sign of a true racist
The UK abolished slavery over 200 years ago.
Most people at Oxbridge don't have time to stare at statues.
I feel like there should be an outdoor museum about this sort of stuff where these statues are sent after they’re taken down, even the statues are an important part of history, a reminder that these people were revered. Given the right context, these statues can carry a powerful educational message
I know there's a museum about slavery in the US, where most of the racist and slavist-related items are displayed in context. It helps people to empathize too.
Good point. It definitely gives the statue an entirely new context. Eery even, seeing the quality and labor put into these pieces.
I agree,… even in respect to Britains tarnished past in many aspects NOT all because Britain WAS GREAT & personally I believe we deserved the character definition,…but whom ever destroyed the at times gracious character that identified Britain which was likely very many, they should be the ones who bare the brunt of that ugly arrogance in whatever the particular guilt they bore!
Even so,… they should still be remembered for anything good they did,…OBVIOUSLY & ESPECIALLY if it was life changing in a positive sense for the country!
Like you pointed out given the right context they can still be rewarding for the educational system,.. but maybe pointed out as an aside along the message of praise another message that points out the persons criminal & hateful behaviour especially racial !
So the figure doesn’t need to be destroyed to the point where we no longer have any opportunity to learn of an important character in our history!
how to apply modern values to historical periods in which values were different...
So you guys treat people of color good now?
@@daylemia pretty much...the ladder of law has no top and no bottom
@@pez--- ok, so the natives, black and brown groups are good now? No injustice? No more complaints about the same group these men represent? Hm, guess all those thousands of protesters worldwide for the last hundred years were actors.
@Alpha Centauri you’re not one of those wannabe white buffer class types are you? Deny anything to gain acceptance by your white buddies? Anyway, I know your honored that you can share the same bathroom with the white people you identify with, but that doesn’t mean injustice and harm is not being done to other people (that look like you). You can still acknowledge injustice and have empathy. Ignoring it won’t make you more anglo sorry😐
@@daylemia You’re the racist one here
How about investigating modern slavery and people trafficking instead of a rather underwhelming history lesson. Must be more important things to report on?
Well said! There are slaves today who need freeing and slavers who need killing. It would also be nice if they stopped using the term human trafficking to describe it, a euphemism if ever I heard one.
Would you have talked about modern slavery on a video that wasn't linked to historical slavery?
The point we are trying to make here is that focusing on historical slavery doesn't help solve modern slavery. But in my opinion, the presenter's iconoclastic viewpoint is extremely concerning.
Jesus Christ! have you ever tried shutting up for once? nobody is forcing you too watch it but it must be really painful too know that how most of the things that you enjoy comes from things which are so condemnable, fucking stop with the damn gaslighting mate.
That wouldn't make them feel virtuous. It is the past they use to beat us. Nevermind the fact that all her clothing came from a slave warehouse in the east. Nevermind that the recording equipment came from slaves. I think the future will look back at this period as the most hypocritical in the history of mankind.
£9000 per semester? Per year? Damn! Either way, it’s cheap.
Here in the US, my tuition is $69000. 🧐
£9250 per year
In NL it's 2000 EUR per year but we think that's already really expensive, Germany has it better with 240 EUR (300 USD) per year.
UK gov implemented a limit to prevent excessive fees and to give everyone the opportunity to study wherever they want
Yeh but America is corrupt and far from free.
Ask for cheaper education over carpet bombing small nations for resources.
Priorities.
70$ per semester in norway :)
All these people acting like they would've done different back in the day
You're right, they would of been the same...it was the environment so they would of been the same..
the same people that claim that claim "how they would be" picture themselves in the 1800s 1900s wearing skinny Jean's, tattoos pricings, other modern appeal, telling people off about how fucked up racism is.....
If they lived back then, they would talk, dress, think and live the same..
Except there were people that were against this. Even during slavery there were many abolitionists that played a key role.
Historical context would be different compared to today's standards, yes. However, this video is a recounting facts. What I got out of it is, it's important not to perpetuate the deification of historical figures because of a donation. They were just people, some much more flawed than others.
You are saying you would have been a slave trader if you lived back then!!! Wow
They would have done it different and EVEN MORE BETTER TOO!
There’s legitimate discussions to be had and I would support a democratic decision making process within the university about how to deal with these things. It’s weird that she talks about celebrating the slave owners though... no one is doing that.
the statue of Cecil Rhodes for instance
@@angel-light11 Wait you think having the statue there is evidence that the university as an institution celebrates slavery? Or the people that make the decision to keep it there are showing themselves to be what... Like wistfully looking back at slavery as some lost golden age?
It's simplistic and far too easy to judge people too harshly from history. Instead of doing pointless things like tearing down statues, why not try to understand, integrate, and accept it. And help make the world better. That's what adults do.
@@mattmarkus4868 There were people in the times of the slaveowners and racists honored with statues who objected to what they did.
@@mattmarkus4868 germany pulled down their nazi statues after losing wwii. how is this any different?
Might as well leave England. Because guess what. The whole country is founded on the same roots. 😂 🇬🇧
It’s literally all of human history we can’t change what they did we have learned from it these people can’t comprehend it and it’s sad
Nobody will leave and It will be changed from the roots all the way to the top 👍🏼
@Andrew yeah well some people also thought slavery was good there are always going to be stupid people if they can’t see facts they never will everyone with a brain knows slavery was wrong.
@Andrew the Empire has atrocities like every empire in the history of Earth, but they also done good things like bring laws, transport, economy, education, electricity, industry, healthcare, language and countless other things that if they didn’t bring them, the world wouldn’t be where it’s at today.
@Andrew
And yet India still bases their institutions on those left by the British, why would they do that if they hated their influence so much?
God these camera angles they use for her are condescending.
why
@@charlesmiv3842 I think cause it’s filmed with her POV being taller/above the camera I guess
@@renatos591 that’s not “condescending”....
The cameraman must be a foot off the ground she is super short 😂
Can you find another way to get the shot? Oh great light bender.
Just tell us clearly how pulling down a statue that reminds us of our past will improve the lives of black people today.
Thank you 🙏🏽
Lol. They can't tell you anything. It just helps to massage their ego. It's the equivalent of painting Black Lives Matter on a major road. What will that do? Nothing. These are cheap wins (which aren't even wins at all). But it is what it is 🚶🏿♂️♥️
@@lemiphil2388 i see you, Chinese shill.
@@salehothman8831 😂😂😂 I'm not even Chinese. But just like clockwork, it jumped out.
Mates, just rename it "British Empire of dirt" not a single episode of any other Empire.
because they hate winners
@@BM-rw8ty That's a Bold statement, the French currently control more territory than the British.
@@peoplesrepublicofliberland5606 The British Empire was the largest empire in history. And overseas territories isn’t an empire.
@@jamescheynne2879 the uk uses both but in different context, it’s just evolution of language.
@@jamescheynne2879 Did you forget that English is spoken in a wide variety of ways all around the world.
Blackadder: "I asked if he'd been to one of the great universities, Oxford, Cambridge, Hull ... You failed to spot that only two of those are great universities!"
Melchett: "That's right. Oxford's a complete dump".
“Britons shall never be slave”
The best way not to be a slave is to make others your slave.
Yeah well Britain had plenty of britons as slaves… that whole viking culture they inheritied… yeaaaa
Could you please do an episode about the japanese empire occupation of east asia during ww2?
No she can't, only the whitey is accountable for doing the same every other culture has done
@@CSDesign2023 yup that's right, the slavery did not exist in Africa until Europeans set foot on that at the time peaceful and prosperous continent
You must know by now it's only seemingly the British who ever do things wrong
Disappointing and simplistic video. Disappointed from
Vice on this one.
I agree. Pointing out that the british aristocracy profited from the empire and slavery is hardly news.
U guys gunna cover the Mongol empire soon? Can't wait 🙂
For some reason she reminds me of that lady who was on TLC for being an extreme cheapskate in New York
I remember that episode where she fed her guest with what she salvaged from the dumpsters.
because she’s asian- stereotyping much 😍😍
😂😂😂... 😑 smh
LMFAOOO
@@arrangormley5594 no dumb it’s because she actually looks like her
I finally understand what they meant by distracting hand gestures when giving a speech...
Close your eyes then weirdo
@@Faderificism interesting
I am European, I can't speak without my hands.
Hey Empires of Dirt, I have an Idea on what you should do next. The Britains have managed to cover it up, but there were rumours that the Britains was involved with aiding the Nigerian Civil War expecting Oil in return. People don't know much about this, there are few results about this topic on the internet, please can you do an investigation on it? Thank you.
Today, there are 25 million modern day slavery in North Korea that is world largest prison in the world.
In today's episode of 'white men BAD' Zing Tsjeng lectures us about British History.
ua-cam.com/video/SNhiMBAxF0c/v-deo.html&ab_channel=CxUploads
Nice love when racist expose themselves.
@@herrk9237 Say that to entire Vigor community in China 2020
In Oxford's graduate's voice :D
It's so disheartening to see people comment on her looks more than the content of what is actually spoken. More school curriculums need to cover the oppressions of colonialism because every time a generation forgets the detriments of history, it is doomed to repeat it.
Imagine this, no slavery back then, no european went to africa and no african brought to europe or US, what would happened now?
@@3m287 you get your history from your slavery universities? Good one
@@EliteExpat You didn't know about the Arab slave trade?
@@EliteExpat Arab slave trade was even more luxurious and wealthier than the slave trade from 16th to 19th century, only reason europeans werent involved with it is because they couldnt understand how a someone could be owned by another
@@marko6905 I know white people always trying to push blame away! That I know very well. Historically. Keep reading your fake books.
African would be richer
Europe and America would be poorer
I just find incredible that an Asian girl - growing in UK - gives lessons about racism..
😂
Wait I’m confused what’s incredible about that???
@@nicola7021 it's incredibly how sparsely disguised op's subtle racism is.
She’s giving lessons about history not racism
Imagine going to live in a country just to berate it endlessly. Peak clown
She doesn’t hate the UK she’s just telling their past.
@@nirus9599 she must leave we are tired of her propaganda
Taking down statues means re-writing history. This is not OK no matter where it happens in the world. The destruction of Buddha statues in Afghanistan by the Taliban government was universally condemned.
It really doesnt. You can take it and put it in a museum where it belongs. That puts the history in proper context.
A statue of someone on one of the worlds most prestigious universities only serves for a purpose of reverence.
Statues are NOT history. Statues are a form of worship (state, religious, secular, etc). You're not learning history from a statue, you're learning vague IDEALISM from a statue with zero context as time goes by.
@@HitomiNoRyu You do have a point but statues and other historic structures are reminders of different eras that a country, civilization or a region has gone through. For example, Roman relics in many parts of Europe and Asia are fabulous prompts of rise and fall of great powers.
Shuch
2:47 - Gatherings of over 6 people were explicitly outlawed in the UK at that time, yet very few people were arrested for breaking that law & the police didn't try to stop the demonstrations.
@Andrew If that were true, outdoor gatherings wouldn't be banned. A single cough or sneeze when in a crowd can infect several people within seconds.
In our history books they say that the British abolished slavery in 1807 but the reality is that they continued slavery in other countries and also they never abolished slavery itself in their country
Stop bashing these schools and things that received money 200+ years ago. The past is the past, learn from it and move forward to make our world a better place.
Nice misleading comment, calling and educational video about history a bashing to these schools
The past is still churning out dollars for these schools.
Sorry, what about modern day slavery in China?
VICE News has covered that, and the prison camps for Chinese Muslims.
What about both?
WAIT!!!! 3:05 THIS is where the " Rhodes Scholar," thing comes from?? WOW! My mind is blown and deflated now. Just wow!
Rhodes Scholarship is one of the most prestigious in academia. 😲
But a racist person
Now we know the source of his wealth as well as the scholarships.
Right?So much being uncovered!
Almost all of America’s universities were built on land grabs and genocide
www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/opinion/land-grant-universities-native-americans.html
@@enzedmusic6808 So you rather end the scholarship to get a comeback at someone who died more than a hundred years ago? I hope not.
@@user-rv9um5xc3r Robbing and looting the world for there wealth and knowledge by racist people then opening up unis doesn’t justify anything. Just shows European domination is controlling the world til this day. But don’t worry mis understood person history repeats it’s self and no matter how powerful every empire comes to a end.
there’s a difference between erasing history and correcting it. This is the wrong approach
I am thankful for the work your team is doing to highlight our troubled past. It’s clear by the dislikes, people are struggling to accept a history that doesn’t align to their pristine, savior-like roles of people who look like themselves. Many comments in this thread are meant to mute discussion and engagement by dismissing this as nothing new, but our past is very much alive and worth talking about. It’s good to disagree, but we should invite argument and discussion rather than hypotheticals and what-ifs the history didn’t happen. It did, and so we are left with our pasts which in 2020 still has a very healthy pulse.
I miss the old VICE...
F
You're gonna have to change that thumbnail. That's Jesus College, Cambridge
Jesus!
I visited Oxford University many years ago and would not hesitate to attend the school if given the opportunity... or rather if I EARNED the opportunity. Check out wikipedia for information on "Slavery in Asia", Slavery in China and such. Slavery is covered in THE HOLY BIBLE, remains a part of our history and some even believe it exists today. As for Oxford, I consider myself fortunate to have visited the UK and been part of my great historical and cultural heritage. What sounds crazy are stories of Roman slaves who fought as gladiators and refused freedom even after winning it fairly in the arena. Apparently they enjoyed freedom... though, to be honest, ownership no doubt is better.
Yes, bad things have happened in the past and present and behind many great fortunes there is a great crime. The self-righteousness of some people is hard to take.
Only you can decide what you see when you look at those symbols such as the statue of Rhodes.
You can either choose to see a reminder of what we can refuse to be and do.
Or you can do THE EASY THING, and see it as an encouragement of terrible actions.
Taking down a statue or exposing a story from long ago can only go so far. And by hiding the atrocities, all you do is make people forget the past and commit all of its mistakes, again. As people say, "out of sight, out of mind".
ever hear of a museum? we have plenty of reminders of our racist history. glorified statues are not the way.
Well said.
@@wandalyons1559 they're only glorified in your race baiting socialist minds actually.
@@wandalyons1559 well said , couldn’t have put it better myself
Do you know what a museum is?
This is from 3 years ago, and Oxford was conducting a two-year "inquiry." How about an update Vice? @Vice
Ooo! She should do one about China!!
Why should she? Just because she has a Chinese heritage doesn't mean that she's obligated to reveal her thoughts on the atrocities happened in China.
@@mgkatyj I have no way to know if she has Chinese heritage, and I wasn't assuming that. There are many asian people, not all are from China.
@@Backstabbio Really? The name Zing Tsjeng doesn't give it away? Okay...
@@mgkatyj I didn't know her name, didn't pay attention. I think you're assuming her nationality, though. She might identify as Taiwanese.
What’s so ironic and one-sided about this report is that the very human-center ideology that folks fought against slavery with raised directly from the economic prosperity generated by colonialism itself. Modern medicine, legal jurisprudence and even human rights are all the byproducts of colonialism to a certain extent.
It’s extremely pretentious and irresponsible when people like Zing Tsjeng reap the post-colonial benefits while condemning the entire subject matter. All she does is pick and choose a fraction of the history favouring her current sociopolitical status quo at the moment. What makes her morally superior to a 17th-century slave trader who fought FOR slavey using the same exact political persuasion/maneuver in the name of capitalistic gains instead of socialistic ones?
I used to like VICE for their venturing spirit and boldness, but this series is such a timid approach to the current news headlines and straight-up insulting the audience’s intelligence.
My man here drank the capitalist koolaid
Years ago I watched a tv programme following a British black guy learning about his history. This found him in the Caribbean and the sugar trade, a plantation owned by a British family.
That was the end. I found myself thinking that if we chase the history back on all our old castles, mansions and stately homes, you will almost always find their financial foundation includes a strong link to human exploitation and misery.
What is to be the solution when everyone realises this I wondered?
The wealthy who’s family own these huge stately homes and parks need to accept the only way forward would be to hand these places over to full public ownership. They should be used and enjoyed by everyone for public events and community cohesion gatherings. We should not destroy these buildings out of rage, we should use them as a symbol of change. Turning dark history into light evolution. A place where everyone can truly come together as an equal.
I only recently found out my own history. I descend from white British yet now I have found 25% of my heritage shows my lineage is Indian. A Royal family that fought till the end against the East Indian company.
This certainly helps to explain my lifelong internal feeling of being in a paradoxical state.
We mustn’t rage for our past and instead utilise the rage by transforming ourselves to create a better future.
We are all fallible but the key is to never stop trying to get it right for all. ✌🏼
"Some good doesnt wash away all the bad"
Well damn, lets never do good again then.
Do you only do good to wash away the bad ?
the thing is racism is probably the foundation of most universities in the us and uk that have long histories. its something that we cant change... but it doesnt change the prestige of schools like oxford or harvard
Slavery wasn't based on racism - it was based on a technological and military imbalance between the enslavers and the enslaved - just like every other slave-trade in history.
The British were not fussy over who they made their slaves - they had more white slaves than black slaves at certain points.
Racism perpetuated slavery and was a factor in its development, but it was not the cause of slavery. Had the West African countries been sufficiently armed and technically developed, the British would not have developed the transatlantic slave trade.
Oxford was established in 1096 (Cambridge 1209), so they do not have the same foundation as US university’s.
@@JoBlakeLisbon Correct, racism does not cause slavery; racism rationalizes slavery.
“Im from fucking Oxnard.”
“What? What is this Oxford?”
This is such biased reporting, not even journalism.
I mean, it Vice but if you go in knowing that there is still something to be learned
Vice: "Rhodes exploited and basically enslaved thousands, justified his actions with abhorrent racism. Some people consider that homages like statues should be removed from public view."
Comments: "HoW dArE yOu diSrEsPecT hiM aNd HiS mEmoRy? hE wAs ALmOsT a FaThEr To Me"
Y'all are worse than K-Pop stans for real.
why’s she walking like a minecraft player model
-Western education is like the proverbial naked king
everyone knows its naked but nobody dare to say
so because of their vested interests.
the comments are a good example
But it's still the History of England, so it should not be swept under the carpet or eradicated from English society. Far from it, these statues of great men stand as a reminder about all they did or were in their lives be it good or bad. Surely we must remember the past, so we the people don't ever allow the same mistakes again, just as night follows day the future repeats the Past.
You do know you could learn about history from books right? Statue-based learning can't be that efficient. You must know that, right?
Statues are for idolizing a person for their actions. They're not for learning, or for a reminder as to how not to act. Would you want a statue built of a murderer who committed the act just a few years ago? Jeffrey Dahmer for example. (I'm gonna assume you don't)
So then why have statues of people who committed heinous crimes/actions long ago? You can't have a double standard.
Yes, so move them to a museum. They shouldn't be standing in public areas.
Mozart's requim always makes things intense.
But what do these people expect? When an institution is literally hundreds of years old it’s bound to have a sordid history. And while I agree that continued praise of villainous figure should stop. In no way should these institutions apologize for taking money from said figures. The institutions did not partake or instigate these horrible crimes they merely received funds to continue to provide education. Also a modern administration should not have to bow for the mistakes of their predecessors that is absolute madness.
Exactly. At the people who made these huge donations were advancing science, were patrons of the arts and were regarded as legitimate businessmen of the time. In hindsight their legacies are dominated by their profiting from slavery, but at the time, perspectives were completely different.
Perhaps they should rename some of these dinners or put plaques up which shine a light on the dark history. But there is literally zero point in walking around literally ancient institutions and going “rich racist people paid for this in the 18th century.” Like it isn’t obvious.
What’s next? Don’t tell me the monarchy has been home to racists, misogynists, war mongers, murderers.
How about the Palace of Westminster? I wouldn’t believe anyone who says that many of the UK’s prime ministers held white supremacist beliefs?
Lol. Churchill was one. You don’t need to go back to the bloody 1760’s to find these people. What was Vice thinking. This video was sooo pointless.
@Rachel Goldberg
Ah but that’s different because the rise of nationalism in modern Japanese politics has actively embraced their atrocities and continue to celebrate their imperialistic roots. And meanwhile oxford university merely received money from perpetrators but did not endorse the values of their donors, at least not in an official capacity. And the difference between the Japanese and oxford is that the Japanese were the ones to actually perpetrate the crimes and then maintain the same level of justification of their actions enforced which they should be ashamed and condemned. And when I say the new administration should not apologize for the mistakes of their predecessors, the stipulation should be that the new administration does not continue the flaws of their predecessors, I should’ve made that clear.
The Japanese following their defeat and subsequent American occupancy formally apologized for their participation and active role in their atrocities. However the new administration in an increasingly conservative and nationalistic Abe government has refused to acknowledge the extant of their participation and for that they should be condemned.
Used to like vice, now this.
Exactly
What's wrong with this?
@@1_jahwarrior They said Rhodes was mean. They are worse than K-Pop stans.
To erase history is to live in ignorance. I'd rather keep the statues as a memory of how we've come, and a reminder of the changes that are yet to be made. Pretty much clickbait bs imo, coz this does not pertain to oxford having any dark truths in recent years.
It's ur nic how I resonate with this comment the most in this video! We do need to preserve our history, however, we don't need to honor it. People have lost an appreciation for actually seeking knowledge. People should be reading about it at schools or in libraries. But I don't think we need statues to be kept.
It’s a young woman who hasn’t ever accomplished anything scrutinizing people who have.
Yeah enslaving men and women, such an "accomplishment" right?
What about leaving the statues and just replacing the plaques with a more historically accurate description of the person. Don't wipe away their crimes but list them to give perspective on the individuals
that's the best way
that's way too nuanced for these people, they want it to be either black or white
How come Vice only focus on “European” empires and not Islamic, Chinese, and African empires?
Because vice is a Leftist Media
And they have no guts like, Charlie Hebdo
4:13 I LOVE THIS. Savage journalism at it's finest, shows the hypocrisy of these westerners who felt the need to impose their religion on the world.
You mean the best thing to ever happen to the planet? 😁
So, you want to delete history?
This video is literally teaching history. You just don't want to hear it.
Delete? True history was never revealed!! So reveal it and take no part in the wretched evil of others. Injustice, inhumanity, plus time, does not equal JUSTICE or humane conduct! If times have changed, leaving room at the table for past sins is to empower that old evil all over again. These people have had their legacy of wealth and fame. That’s enough! Tell the Rest of their vulgar story and take them down!! All lives prospered in white privileged lands; and All lives matter because Black lives toiled and died and therefore truly Mattered✊🏿‼️
@@coled82595 she looks like want to destroying that buildings and statues 😅
@@coled82595 it’s giving us the history to tell us why we should erase this history.
Typical commie stuff that will continue until they see their ideologies confirmed, i.e. never. I don’t think you would get a Western majority for the removal of any kind of ambiguous or bad actors for any other culture.
@@Sheeshening Recognizing history ≠ erasing history
You just don't like that the history you mistakingly believed was true is now being corrected. You're scared of truth. You're scared of being forced to recognize that the people and societies that you once believed were good were actually not. You're frightened and ignorant. I pity you, my boy.
Sad but true, unfortunately it was a different time back then and the was the norm. Most institutions around the world had their dirty little fingers in the slave trade pie.
@Nick Arjomand 0:33 It tells you right in the beginning what "Empire of Dirt" series is all about...and you're shocked that this video focuses on European institutions??? Congrats! You literally missed the fucking point!
@@HitomiNoRyu well, that's the problem. There are not enough series that focus on non-European institutions. I've honestly had enough of "European people bad! give black people reparations! ". It's about time we start saying "Turkish people bad! give balkan people reparations!". The Balkans are a shithole because the ottoman empire oppressed them for centuries and kept them away from the enlightenment and the industrial revolution.
@@nickb1156 Since people have a Eurocentric view they don't know much about Turkey and probably don't care about another countries problems when their own country has plenty.
@@nickb1156 Ah you committed the classic Whataboutery fallacy~! A common tactic but very unhelpful to any argument for all parties involved. Just because you mention a completely different and unrelated topic doesn't mean the original topic lost any merit as a result. You just wasted everyone's time.
@@HitomiNoRyu I'm glad I wasted your time 😌
So when are you going to talk about the chinese and how they have slaves till this day?
They already did
@@yasspanda2559 And racism against Vigors in 2020
I find myself half screaming explanations/counter arguments at almost all the point made.. it's so disgusting how badly all the historically contexts are explained throughout the video
It is indeed sad that modern day society was made upon others sufferings, but complaining wouldn't solve anything, it is better to move on, denounce the past, prevent and stopping anything similar while keeping progress using what's left by past societies 👍
Alright then why were the Jews repatriated by Germany then.
This is appalling. I never thought of this before.
As one cannot change history, we have to view the "slave trade" as it was seen then. Society condoned the buying and selling of human beings during this dark period, so it would be wrong, in my humble view, if individuals who profited from this ghastly practice are pilloried now. It boils down to what the convention was at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
yo am I tripping or is most of this video tilted towards a side
I suppose exposing racism is a side?
@@ruffridge02 no I mean the camera angles, literally
@@ruffridge02 Say that to Vigors in China
Yes, and which country was the first to allow women to vote? What's that? Oh yes, the Isle of Man, in the British Isles. Which people pioneered education for women? There are so many examples of great things done, including moral advancements, by the British people. This documentary seems very one-sided. If one approaches history with a lot of resentment to begin with, his/her confirmation bias will probably only make him/her more resentful....
Anti British propaganda yes
Up next dont use English so you won't support the filthy dirty British colonial way of speech
What about slavery in Russian Empire which ended only in February 19th, 1861?
Yea, I couldn't study at Oxford for a minute if there are these kind of statues around. My inner blackness/asianess would revolte and my eternal victimhood would cry "respect me for what I'm not". Lost generation, really..
What has the world come to? I’m 31 and on the verge of fed up now.
China has concentration camps currently for the Uyghur people, is Vice going to make a video of that?
ua-cam.com/video/v7AYyUqrMuQ/v-deo.html
They already have....
She has a particular way of examining history. It's an interesting perspective but I don't think it makes good educational videos. Over explains modern perspectives, loves buzz words without explaining detail and glosses over complex topics with arrogant confidence.
Ironic that most of the world's suffering is caused by people educated by these institutions.
Genuinely a fan of this series, as a child of the West Indies. VICE, keep speaking truth to power
I wonder what this girl doing to stop current slavery in other nations, perhaps even her home😅
why does this matter? can someone logically explain to me why a universitys past matter? who funded them and their alleged ties to whatever the british did in the past, do these people not have more important things to do?
I just came to comment on how cringey the thumbnail is
It’s dreadful, she looks so righteous in her cancel culture attack sponsored by vice
It’s incredibly jarring to consume anything coming from vice news knowing that one of the founders of vice is also the founder of the proud boys
Thank you Vice news...
For unraveling European colonialism, there atrocities, brutality on whole of remaining world.
We know that their wealth,industrialisation, development is based on blood & corpses of millions of black,Asian & native American, aboriginal people. 😢😢😢
If you are horrified by the history of Oxford, then maybe you shouldn’t go there.
Or maybe you should learn about the crime empire English had and has and its centers, centers like Oxford
@@NoName-hg6cc I’m fully aware of them but in the big picture the British Empire has made a monumental impact on the world and has further advanced civilization, law and innovation. Of all the empires in history, the British Empire was the mildest and left it’s former colonies the most better off compared to the French or the Spanish. Oxford is a world respected university and if you hate the British empire so much and it’s past, it’s rather foolish to attend its foremost academic center. If you don’t like Islam, don’t go to Mecca. It’s that simple!
@@jonathanmorgan6565 Of all the empires, british empire was the one who made the least positive impact on the world. It was the most vicious, cruel and disgusting crime syndicate ever existed.
The colonies argument is bs and not even particularly true: look at uk Africa colonies...
Oxford is what it is thank to money stolen and plundered richness around the world. The least it could do it's recognize this.
Easy
@@NoName-hg6cc 1) every nation and people has conquered and plundered with Britain itself conquered and plundered for almost two millennia prior to the rise of the British Empire. Doing such is the norm and not some sort of moral indictment that is specific to the British Empire.
2) Its absolutely evident that former British colonies are much more prosperous and free than nations with no British past. Argentina and Australia are both settler colonies of the British and Spanish empires. The legal and economic structures of both nations are completely different, yet the average Australian is much better off and more free than the average Argentine. You cannot tell me that the India of today could not be possible without British influence and institutions to build off of. In fact, the Indian state closely models British styles of law and governance. The African colonies of the UK, have much higher qualities of life than the their neighbors. The highest GDP’s in Africa are nations that were under the strongest British influence.
@@jonathanmorgan6565 1) Everyone did, true. Nowadays though other nations learned from past mistakes. uk didn't.
2) Ahahahahahaha again, that's not true and it has nothing to do with uk itself: the areas had already better infrastructure than any other part if the world.
Argentina is Italian and Spanish, not English. Chile is Spanish. Both are quite good. Australia had his native population almost wiped out. Go see Bangladesh. Compare it with Tunisi. Or Eritrea. Or, again, Chile.
India would have been way better off than today without uk nasty jackboot over its head for a century.
Compare Sudan with Mexico. Who's better? With Tunisia or Morocco: who has better quality of life? Want to do the same with Botswana or Cameroon? The state who suffered less were the ones NOT under uk's vicious rule
you really titled this video 'the TRUTH about oxford' when the thumbnail is... cambridge
She probably uses Wiki aswell
They talk about Cambridge in the video your not as smart or clever as you think you are
@@kevinkelly1794 smart and clever is the dame thing, anyway the title is Oxford
@@pikerkiler because no video ever in the history of all of humanity should or could talk about more then one thing cause that would be absolutely outrageous. Obviously they knew the difference they went to both sites in the videos they honestly probably just thought the one in front of Cambridge looked better
HEAR HEAR!! This Zimbabwean and direct product of colonialism thanks you for your reporting.
Hows Zimbabwe doing? Farming wise?
@@jo18533 sounds like a racist troll assumes he knows enough about the legacy of colonialism. How has any country done just after it's deposed authoritarianism? Probably swapped one type for another, is what.
@@Chadevereux You didn't answer my question. Ireland had no problem 'after it deposed authoritarianism'. The English colonized them for 800 years, now they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And certainly have no problem with farming.
British people after watching Oxford getting criticised "we are not amused"
They shouldn't be amused. The criticism is ridiculous.
Just like the criticism of the empire?
We are very amused, because not a single one of us was alive when slavery was going on at this time. We did not not nor ever will agree with what they did, different times, different people, different morals. Get over it.
@@charlottebruce979 unfortunately we can't. It's been just 74 since last of you people left and you have left a nation partitioned. The history of colonialism is not taught to you. Just imagine that there's even native American saying that " if you see two fishes fighting, then surely an Englishman has passed that way". We are not asking for compensation, but surely we reserve the right to criticize.
@@alenorraiden1 the Indian subcontinent was never a nation state. It never had single unifying identity, culture, language, religion or central governance. It was made up of separate states that were sometimes aligned, often not.
But, if you insist, you and your religious zealots 'divided' yourselves willingly. From my point of view, what never existed as one cannot be 'divided'.