Vic2 for win as always. i loved the intimate connection between brigade and region inVic2. Brigade is connected to specific region. Profesional solither or consript was actually lost and had inpact on your country.
@@bartoszbajorek8982Yeah Vicky 2 made war costly if you waged war over something stupid. If you did win big though like in the great wars, the gains were ludicrous. Very realistic.
You say this all as a joke but I genuinely believe the game's lack of warcrimes is a perverse effect of censorship, where not mentioning genocide paints the axis in a better light.
@@presumedeagle10 They do that anyway through mods. At least if it's made basegame there will be a least a bit more incentive to *not* go on an unjustifiable crusade against anyone who shares a land border with you, your industrial capacity will slow to a crawl, your logisitcs will suffer, partisan movements will sabotage logistics and troops moving to the front, you name it.
For me it really just comes down to what would it add to the game? All it would end up being is some flavor text that I would X out of as I do with most of the pop ups. Especially if it's just the one option ones. Also it's not like we don't all already know about the genocides. And if you really do want a genocide sim then they have stellaris for that.
The problem is... how would you add stuff like the holocaust without either 1. Allowing perverted people to play out their gross fetishes or 2. making it a "meta choice" by giving it stats
HoI 4, unlike Victoria or Europa Universalis series, doesn’t focus much on political struggles or economy. So it doesn’t have a game-wide ethnicity or religion system. Logically what is Holocaust gonna get you in terms of game balancing and stats? Minus manpower; minus production; all for what? -10% Ideological drift and +10% stability? If you want to win in Hoi 4 there’s no reason to do this. And it’s also not going to be a fun focus tree with engaging events or fun goals that give you core territories, because we’ve all learned about how it went irl lmao. Only fictional history Mods can get away with this.
Damn, I know Hellquill is pretty much a very omfy "le nazi state" but it is pretty funny that it ain't the worst genocide speedrunner you can get, this belongs to extinction redpilled Ascendacy.
I’d actually really love a mod that more directly ties casualties and over all population to industrial output. In Hoi4 strat bombing hurts your industrial capacity but given some work from civs a rebuilt factory is no worse than a freshly built one. In real life the casualties dealt by strat bombing are far more impactful simply because dead people can’t be repaired. In hoi4 it doesn’t matter if you ship every man woman and child off to the front as long as you move the conscription law there will always magically be enough people to work the fields and factories.
Dead people wasnt the main factor, strategic bombing was more effective at destroying houses, creating a housing crisis. It would even be better if people remained alive, as the government doesnt need to feed or give shelter to dead people.
mlp is a really underrated mod in my opinion, one of the things that sold me early on when I was checking out the mod, was the nuke stuff. They actually reworked nukes and made them DO THINGS. Like damaging population, war support, industry and simulating the radiation affects. Haven't actually used nukes yet funny enough, I keep forgetting. I'm sure I'll get there soon enough.
Hoi4 should add historically accurate genocide mechanics. It would also make trains more useful. In fact, we should get a train designer where you can specifically designate how many cars go to transporting inferiors
No, genuinely no. It's even disgusting to suggest such a thing. It would add nothing but let vile people play out their power fantasies or playdown the holocaust/make it seem reasonable (as you'd of course benefit from slave labour of millions.)
Side note: States can also lose population through nuclear attack on any spot of that state. That means, for example, if you’re deploying a nuclear bomb doesn’t matter if you hit the victory point or not, the state will lose the same amount of population
I liked what you said, Hoi4 has a real division between realism and game logic. I would love to see Paradox add more indept modifiers to manipulate how wars go out if not a food option. However, we should still acknowledge that hoi4 is a game and is made for entertainment for it's genre. It would be unwise for Paradox to take the game too seriously and add more complexity to an already super complex game
BTW this is why hearts of oak 2 is such a good mod. Not only is it MP Alta hist eshports, but multiple nations have accurate “free labor” activities that are easy to use. For instance as the Germans you can “size foreign assets” and recruit foreign workers in the territories you have captured or become the SS state as Slovakia (all while being a well balanced mod)
Well if you think about it, we're playing an observe, most of the time, the dictator of a country. War doesn't negatively affect you if your people have no way of rebelling. I think Hoi 4 realistically shows what it's like to be a dictator, except you can't commit warcrimes.
The populations in states themselves rarely decrease that dramatically. In the most extreme scenario (that will almost never happen in a real game) I believe that you can recruit at most around ~60% of your total population, still leaving you someone to work in factories, probably mostly children. This reduction in the quality of workforce is represented by debuffs in higher conscription laws.
There should definitely be more effects on your overall population like if you nuke a city a significant portion of the state’s population should be gone. If you go to war and loose millions of people your country should reflect that and be forced to recover.
theres three things making hoi4 actually ridiculously unrealistic are: staff casualties, humans are not all capable of being an officer or logistics professional or such things, IQ is not equally and kindly distributed among the population, some armies in history lost a lot of good well trained, and simply born leaders early on in their wars, these are never replaceable. production and technology issues: the more modern a wargame is the more taking a worker out of a factory should hurt and the more research departments get hollowed out, because few jobs are screwing bolts anymore, this is somewhat similar again to the prior mentioned quality of staff problem, your industrial staff as it were, is just as important. thirdly, political stability, theres a pretense as though every system is equally capable of taking certain losses for just any war, when going to war is a political theatre that requires a lot of moralizing and argumentation and convincing to make your nation even go for a total war mode, ofcourse being on a defensive eases this generally, but after a certain amount of casualties people will expect some peace to be brokered, and in hoi4 you never even try anything like that. so the main problem is that outside of three or four noteboxes saying minus division organization and production, maybe some political power loss, theres barely any negative consequences on getting one or two million casualties, theres no gradual loss of all national capacity, making it appear everyone is replaceable, only after a certain cap you switch to scraping the barrel a bit more and get that small hit. there's never any rioting for peace brokering, never any desertion or refusal to attack, never a public demand for a plan or some idea. never a coup from internal party politics or rival ideologies internally either outside player controlled focuses. granted i havent played in half a year now.
I don’t know how Paradox would even go about doing it but giving debuffs to represent historical events would do a better job of holding nations accountable for the actions they did throughout WW2. Like Germany Axis nations could have a manpower debuff representing the populations they persecuted, same for the Soviet Union, and even America with the internment of the Japanese after Pearl Harbor.
This could be a very good mod idea where it discourages you from committing mass atrocities I probably can't go into detail on yt but yeah like if you do too much your population gets angry and your resource production and manpower slowly decrease and instability slowly increase maybe you can spend a bunch of pol power to cover it up or quell protest but this will only Bite you later as when it's leaked not only will the effects come full force but also double it keeps going on like this till your nation collapses you can also have a sanity meter to spend pol power to keep it up and if it gets too low the effects worsen even more with stuff like divisions randomly deserting or getting out of your control and if it gets really low your leader "keeps themselves safe" practically loosing the game you can also have a TV mechanic that shows you atrocities how it could work idk maybe showing you real life ones or pictures or animations maybe the devs can make their own home movies ifk but it would make you feel the weights of it even more you could also have more and more nations turn against you fund rebel groups do deals leave your alliance or even have them declare war on you Hoi4 mod or hoi5 devs you better be writing this down
Everything youve said and requested is ironically although diminuitively had been applied in millenium dawn lol, which is ironic how the fanbase execrated it
I would say that they're present but not obvious. You don't have issues like about manpower being needed and pressing men off the street or having occupation resistance and having decisions around your occupation policy. The closest you get is the occupation policy where you can work civilians to death in work camps or getting resources. But I don't think it needs to be. You're not doing those things, you're working around a war economy.
Yeah and they're pretty weak. War support actually gets lower as you get war casualties or strategic bombardement on your territory. It takes slightly longer to extend conscription when the war support is down, but you can always just spam war propaganda and you're fine, no law enforcement is needed back home. Economy gets to be a little slower as you increase the conscription laws. But these effects are nowhere near the actual devastation that happens in a real war. Civilian population doesn't get lower no matter what you do. Resistance is always the same no matter the population size (occupying beijing is same as occupying riyad in saudi arabia, it's 1 state). It's a meme stock that you can just conscript the first 5% of your population and your state will get NO penalties whatsoeverç
To be honest a mod that makes it so your states can lose population if you take too much casualities would be cool thats all i want for my epic larp playthroughs
fun fact: a war crime mod which calculated civilian casualties and had a pow system existed once but it got taken down relatively quickly
shame
"Well why would you tell me something if I couldn't have it!"
Sounds like a vanilla feature
Aww
i still have the mod i think
Friendship is magic? Wrong! There are bioweapons in your water supply
Friendship was magic
Even though it's a parody, the arguments are pretty good, and what you said somewhat already exists: The mobilization decision in Vicky 2
Vic2 for win as always. i loved the intimate connection between brigade and region inVic2. Brigade is connected to specific region. Profesional solither or consript was actually lost and had inpact on your country.
@@bartoszbajorek8982Yeah Vicky 2 made war costly if you waged war over something stupid. If you did win big though like in the great wars, the gains were ludicrous. Very realistic.
You say this all as a joke but I genuinely believe the game's lack of warcrimes is a perverse effect of censorship, where not mentioning genocide paints the axis in a better light.
The problem is players will start to deliberately act out genocides because they want to or because it’s “funny”
@@presumedeagle10 They do that anyway through mods. At least if it's made basegame there will be a least a bit more incentive to *not* go on an unjustifiable crusade against anyone who shares a land border with you, your industrial capacity will slow to a crawl, your logisitcs will suffer, partisan movements will sabotage logistics and troops moving to the front, you name it.
For me it really just comes down to what would it add to the game? All it would end up being is some flavor text that I would X out of as I do with most of the pop ups. Especially if it's just the one option ones. Also it's not like we don't all already know about the genocides. And if you really do want a genocide sim then they have stellaris for that.
The problem is... how would you add stuff like the holocaust without either 1. Allowing perverted people to play out their gross fetishes or 2. making it a "meta choice" by giving it stats
HoI 4, unlike Victoria or Europa Universalis series, doesn’t focus much on political struggles or economy. So it doesn’t have a game-wide ethnicity or religion system. Logically what is Holocaust gonna get you in terms of game balancing and stats? Minus manpower; minus production; all for what? -10% Ideological drift and +10% stability? If you want to win in Hoi 4 there’s no reason to do this.
And it’s also not going to be a fun focus tree with engaging events or fun goals that give you core territories, because we’ve all learned about how it went irl lmao. Only fictional history Mods can get away with this.
Dont summon the ddlc fans 💀
Too late.
@@mypetbeardedragon2186im here ( I haven't been in the community for 2/3 years)
Damn, I know Hellquill is pretty much a very omfy "le nazi state" but it is pretty funny that it ain't the worst genocide speedrunner you can get, this belongs to extinction redpilled Ascendacy.
bad war support directly effects your stability and casualties directly effect your war support
I’d actually really love a mod that more directly ties casualties and over all population to industrial output.
In Hoi4 strat bombing hurts your industrial capacity but given some work from civs a rebuilt factory is no worse than a freshly built one.
In real life the casualties dealt by strat bombing are far more impactful simply because dead people can’t be repaired.
In hoi4 it doesn’t matter if you ship every man woman and child off to the front as long as you move the conscription law there will always magically be enough people to work the fields and factories.
Higher conscription laws than extensive conscription give debuffs to factory output but it's not a lot compared to the buffs from research
@@SnowithVG just lower the conscription law once you drained the manpower pool, voila you have a huge army and no debuffs.
@@prohacker5086and then that massive army you built up gets strength killed since it can’t replenish.
Dead people wasnt the main factor, strategic bombing was more effective at destroying houses, creating a housing crisis. It would even be better if people remained alive, as the government doesnt need to feed or give shelter to dead people.
mlp is a really underrated mod in my opinion, one of the things that sold me early on when I was checking out the mod, was the nuke stuff. They actually reworked nukes and made them DO THINGS. Like damaging population, war support, industry and simulating the radiation affects.
Haven't actually used nukes yet funny enough, I keep forgetting. I'm sure I'll get there soon enough.
you didn't mention player autocracy enough
Hoi4 should add historically accurate genocide mechanics. It would also make trains more useful. In fact, we should get a train designer where you can specifically designate how many cars go to transporting inferiors
Man. What the fuck.
The Great Trial funny TNO schizo refrence mod?1!2?1!?2!1
I would expect nothing less from an Anime TNO profile picture
No, genuinely no. It's even disgusting to suggest such a thing.
It would add nothing but let vile people play out their power fantasies or playdown the holocaust/make it seem reasonable (as you'd of course benefit from slave labour of millions.)
Least deranged HOI4 comment
Casualties do affect stability. You get a stability hit for "combat casualties" same as you get one for losing convoys and getting bombed
Not stability but war support
War support is really easy to keep up anyways
@@kocant1274 yeah, that’s why nations can suffer horrific losses and still fight until the end.
I edge to your videos little bro
Stellaris player : "hahaha xenos planet goes boom"
If I wanted suffering I'd play TNO, & I already play TNO. So you make some very valid points.
“Play” tno…. Yeah bro visual novels aren’t games
@@Byzantine-Revolt yes they are
Every time I load up Tno I always have a country annex Burgundy
@@Capcam442 Good
@@martimsousa2601Not exactly, you don't "play" visual novels, you read them
well you start to loose war support with casualties in the newest patches
Hoi4 can't decide if it wants to be basic af or overly detailed.
I am pretty sure that casualties will cause drops in war support
There is a severe lack of a button to remove population
Tno with the South African war: hold my beer
Side note: States can also lose population through nuclear attack on any spot of that state. That means, for example, if you’re deploying a nuclear bomb doesn’t matter if you hit the victory point or not, the state will lose the same amount of population
I liked what you said, Hoi4 has a real division between realism and game logic. I would love to see Paradox add more indept modifiers to manipulate how wars go out if not a food option. However, we should still acknowledge that hoi4 is a game and is made for entertainment for it's genre. It would be unwise for Paradox to take the game too seriously and add more complexity to an already super complex game
BTW this is why hearts of oak 2 is such a good mod. Not only is it MP Alta hist eshports, but multiple nations have accurate “free labor” activities that are easy to use. For instance as the Germans you can “size foreign assets” and recruit foreign workers in the territories you have captured or become the SS state as Slovakia (all while being a well balanced mod)
Well if you think about it, we're playing an observe, most of the time, the dictator of a country. War doesn't negatively affect you if your people have no way of rebelling. I think Hoi 4 realistically shows what it's like to be a dictator, except you can't commit warcrimes.
I mean, imagine the number of casualties you run in eu4 when starvation/famine is just Tuesday and the game lasts 400 years, as opposed to 10
late game eu4 casualties are wild
The problem I see with a lack of consequences for losses is that industry‘s are apparently all 100% automated.
It's the women working
@@generaltobias3777 you could have a population of 10 and still have 1000‘s of factories
@@generaltobias3777 Isnt it is own action (i don't remember correctly, i think if you have enough war support and something else)
The populations in states themselves rarely decrease that dramatically. In the most extreme scenario (that will almost never happen in a real game) I believe that you can recruit at most around ~60% of your total population, still leaving you someone to work in factories, probably mostly children. This reduction in the quality of workforce is represented by debuffs in higher conscription laws.
Casualties have a stability effect
TNO Burgundy: *"... You rang?"*
Tbf there is affect if you lose a lot casualties you lose war support thus you lose stability
Hansen you should make a war crimes mod
You do get a war support hit from casualties
War crimes 😎
Peak hansen content fr
Man power also affects you stability
I loved playing Hellquill a couple of years ago
Geneva convention, more like Geneva suggestion
Technically casualties do affect industry. They force higher conscription laws which reduce factory output
TIL children's horse cartoon has a world map and lore
It’s not a war crime, if you win.
There should definitely be more effects on your overall population like if you nuke a city a significant portion of the state’s population should be gone. If you go to war and loose millions of people your country should reflect that and be forced to recover.
Wouldn't mind it as an option, all the time though? No thank you.
investigate nono
my man wot
When is the Hague convention DLC coming out?
That’s what Vicky is for.
I think, that HoI4 should have military mobilisation.
theres three things making hoi4 actually ridiculously unrealistic are: staff casualties, humans are not all capable of being an officer or logistics professional or such things, IQ is not equally and kindly distributed among the population, some armies in history lost a lot of good well trained, and simply born leaders early on in their wars, these are never replaceable.
production and technology issues: the more modern a wargame is the more taking a worker out of a factory should hurt and the more research departments get hollowed out, because few jobs are screwing bolts anymore, this is somewhat similar again to the prior mentioned quality of staff problem, your industrial staff as it were, is just as important.
thirdly, political stability, theres a pretense as though every system is equally capable of taking certain losses for just any war, when going to war is a political theatre that requires a lot of moralizing and argumentation and convincing to make your nation even go for a total war mode, ofcourse being on a defensive eases this generally, but after a certain amount of casualties people will expect some peace to be brokered, and in hoi4 you never even try anything like that.
so the main problem is that outside of three or four noteboxes saying minus division organization and production, maybe some political power loss, theres barely any negative consequences on getting one or two million casualties, theres no gradual loss of all national capacity, making it appear everyone is replaceable, only after a certain cap you switch to scraping the barrel a bit more and get that small hit.
there's never any rioting for peace brokering, never any desertion or refusal to attack, never a public demand for a plan or some idea.
never a coup from internal party politics or rival ideologies internally either outside player controlled focuses.
granted i havent played in half a year now.
wtf i love drinking and driving
Couldn't agree more
Well we have a war on live actions...
I don’t know how Paradox would even go about doing it but giving debuffs to represent historical events would do a better job of holding nations accountable for the actions they did throughout WW2. Like Germany Axis nations could have a manpower debuff representing the populations they persecuted, same for the Soviet Union, and even America with the internment of the Japanese after Pearl Harbor.
What's the point if having yuguslavia as a playable nation if I can't do war crimes?
69% of traffic fatalities are caused by sober drivers, so drink up.
I think that stuff shoud be seperate mod or dlc that only adds those two mechanics and i like paiting my map XD
This could be a very good mod idea where it discourages you from committing mass atrocities
I probably can't go into detail on yt but yeah like if you do too much your population gets angry and your resource production and manpower slowly decrease and instability slowly increase maybe you can spend a bunch of pol power to cover it up or quell protest but this will only Bite you later as when it's leaked not only will the effects come full force but also double it keeps going on like this till your nation collapses you can also have a sanity meter to spend pol power to keep it up and if it gets too low the effects worsen even more with stuff like divisions randomly deserting or getting out of your control and if it gets really low your leader "keeps themselves safe" practically loosing the game you can also have a TV mechanic that shows you atrocities how it could work idk maybe showing you real life ones or pictures or animations maybe the devs can make their own home movies ifk but it would make you feel the weights of it even more you could also have more and more nations turn against you fund rebel groups do deals leave your alliance or even have them declare war on you
Hoi4 mod or hoi5 devs you better be writing this down
Have you perhaps heard of the mod "BlackIce"?
Everything youve said and requested is ironically although diminuitively had been applied in millenium dawn lol, which is ironic how the fanbase execrated it
Nightcore Kesha plus Haruhi I'm subscribed
I would say that they're present but not obvious. You don't have issues like about manpower being needed and pressing men off the street or having occupation resistance and having decisions around your occupation policy. The closest you get is the occupation policy where you can work civilians to death in work camps or getting resources. But I don't think it needs to be. You're not doing those things, you're working around a war economy.
Yeah and they're pretty weak. War support actually gets lower as you get war casualties or strategic bombardement on your territory. It takes slightly longer to extend conscription when the war support is down, but you can always just spam war propaganda and you're fine, no law enforcement is needed back home. Economy gets to be a little slower as you increase the conscription laws. But these effects are nowhere near the actual devastation that happens in a real war. Civilian population doesn't get lower no matter what you do. Resistance is always the same no matter the population size (occupying beijing is same as occupying riyad in saudi arabia, it's 1 state). It's a meme stock that you can just conscript the first 5% of your population and your state will get NO penalties whatsoeverç
i love virtual tnd
There is a mod where occupation laws remove state population
i will leave a like comment and subscribe because war crimes
But... war is fun.
Why would you show the sayori pic? Nuh uh, one does not simply do that
3:30 bruh
Based
Is this true?
>anime pfp
opinion discarded
2:16 Of course equestria at war is better, it's better than the game itself
please buy Kiwi a better mic the apple earpods wont do
That was the Kiwi, let him be
@@hansenfoulken my point still stands
@@Fuofff he fell of frfr
@@gumastruhadlonaceruzky ong
Bro Im on a teacher's salary leave me be
To be honest a mod that makes it so your states can lose population if you take too much casualities would be cool thats all i want for my epic larp playthroughs