It’s a really good point about traps in odd places. Me & my family have added a house rule that specific items you want to search like treasure chests and furniture you need to be standing next to it.
I suspect a lot of people do that. I sort of um and ah about it. On the one hand, it forces heroes deeper into rooms, and makes it possible to do more elaborate traps, but it also draws the game out slightly, and I do like how quick and immediate searching is when you can do the whole room in one go. I think both options have their advantages.
7:11 The bowing skeletons was an amazing moment at our table. Shouts of disbelief and confused looks everywhere. Top 10 moments in our entire HQ campaign thus far for sure 🤘
Another fantastic HEROQUEST video. I really enjoy hearing about your experiences and critique on each of the levels in the campaign. I’d personally love to hear your take on each level from the original campaign, Kellars Keep & Return of the Witch Lord. Either way keep up the good work. 👍🏻
Thanks so much for the kind words and the contribution to the channel. I really appreciate the support. I will take a closer look at some other HeroQuest expansions in the future.
6:11 The issue I ran into on quest 3 was the party being too powerful and wiping all the monsters before they had a chance to do anything special. The goblin only respawned once, which I had less of an issue since it was just a good roll. But the final demon, which I custom printed and painted (prior to the retail release) hoping for an epic fight was put to sleep and wiped before his first turn. I’d strongly advocate for many of the levels starting on Zargon’s turn like an ambush if you have a medium to strong party, especially on the final demon.
As the Zargon player I try to modify dungeons as we go to scale them a bit. I don't think I would let the monsters go first in this situation because they will just crowd around the heroes on the stairs and the heroes won't even get to move, but making the monsters more powerful or something similar would help. It's tricky when you only have one room to play with.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring thats a good point. I don’t think I’d have every level have enemies ambushing, but maybe just a select few to spice it up. In later quests I’ve been picking out a few monsters to give fire related spells and resistances. Whenever the bearer gets to an adjacent hall I drop hints that they can feel a radiant heat in the area or some other related thing to push the fire theme. Its been well received so far.
That sounds neat. I think having a real Zargon player who can lean into the roleplaying, modify the quests, and adapt the difficulty adds so much to the game. That's why, although I think the app is a good addition to the game and is great for those who do want to play solo, it will never replace having a real Zargon player for me.
In quest 11: You can always replace the goblin for the miniature of imprisoned Ragnar (lots of us have this one costum 3d printed). Then you can say that instead of a undercover goblin its a human slave that helps you unlock the doors. I think this works waaay better
Yea, it's a single instance of a non-recurring character so any replacement is fine, really. I just thought it was funny after having friendly orcs in the previous expansion. Ragnar would be a good choice if you wanted to build up to Rise of the Dread Moon because you could plant the seed that he actually led the assault on the city, but then had to present as heroic when the heroes find him.
Great review, as always! (Sorry if this is a little long.) I remember reading the original three Mythic Tier Quest Books from scans that just happen to fall out of a trunk one day (totally legit! LOL). I recall how slapdash it all was in layout and information, so I categorized it as one of those untested early release books that gets fixed due to fan feedback. So yeah, like some old D&D or Judge's Guild module being reused for modern D&D/PF play, Zargon players will have to read though them **thoroughly** and adjust each part that makes no sense. Here were my notes about this Quest set: In room were monsters are standing behind cupboards/bookcases, move the furniture back to the wall to avoid supposition and have the monster spring out of it on Zargon's turn (just like Ambush in WHQ). As transformed Orcs, Heroes are allowed use any artifacts and equipment usable by any Hero, and assume that everyone have at least a BRAOWDsword (sorry, I love saying that) so they don't die to quickly. Use the Witch Lord's Throne Room tile (most player will have it) as the Alter of High Mages, noting that the safest way down is by a "grand staircase" akin the the one on The Titanic (pointing for players to what-is-what). The books states it negates "all magic", so not being able to use basic equipment makes zero sense... so ignore that it says and allow for all non-magical Equipment (so, not the Wand), Potions and Skills. To keep the game flowing with Zargon's Flame, establish that the target numbers are 1 and 6, or 1 with hit with a Water spell. I did not catch that "each Hero gets a Ring of Fortitude" at first, only catching it when I reread it as a physical booklet from the Quest Pack. I don't like the idea of having multiple Artifacts of the same type. Hell, I don't even like the idea of consumable Artifacts beyond the Elixir of Life and thus treat spell scrolls as their own thing! I like Artifacts to be unique and permanent (or at least, reusable). In this case, I rather have that boost to Body (even Mind) as an innate ability that comes with hard work and becoming better Heroes, and thus, cannot be striped away so easily with theft or some magic negation.
All good suggestions, I think. I really don't know why the arena suggests normal equipment can't be used. I think there is nothing there that could prevent a barbarian from swinging their sword. Trying to wade through that many enemies with a 1 dice attack would be horrible.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Maybe the book assume you default to your starting weapons? I get the feeling that Stephen Baker write the booklet with the mindset of the old EU rules where without Equipment cards in play, a Hero defaults to their starting Attack Dice score. There are a lot of little things that push me into this idea. Like the way Zargon's Flame works reminds me of the different ways powerful EU monsters are handled (Ogres, Doomguards/Dark Warriors, etc.) where the NA rules would just throw more Body Points at them. His approach to adventure design was always eclectic, but I do love how they make each adventure stand out.
It's certainly possible, but it seems a bit strange that he would do that when working with Hasbro - I assume realising they were going to create a single definitive edition - and also when, by all accounts, the US rules set was closer to his original idea for the game anyway. Never-the-less, it's a great adventure, but like with a lot of HeroQuest, there is work for a good Zargon player to do. This is why I prefer not to play with the app and to control the dungeon myself!
Awesome! I love the ideas in this Quest Pack and I want to run it now. I might see about buying the Quest Book on it's own though because I really don't need any of the box contents really ...
As you are in an elvish city that has recently been destroyed I will probably use an elf from one of the other expansions who is still fighting the invaders.
Also a good place to use the Warlock, maintaining the idea of a "spy", or someone corrupted by Dread Magic who is still fighting their fate - like a mirror of the person carrying the Talisman of Lore, only the Warlock ultimately can't overcome the lure of the power Dread offers. Just a shame it comes a bit late in the campaign - would have been a good way to introduce a "back up hero" similar to how the Orc Bard is positioned in Spirit Queens Torment.
It's night and day with availability of HeroQuest compared to anything Games Workshop are doing. It's such a relief to know you don't have to jump on every new release on day one or else never own it.
Does it matter which type of Hero Character has the Talisman of Lore? For example, in one of my playing groups, the BARBARIAN has the Talisman of Lore. Will this be a problem when we play this Quest Book?
The quest does sort of work better if the wizard has the talisman, not only from a narrative perspective, but because a wizard is more susceptible to the corrupting influence of the talisman. A barbarian, having fewer mind points and more body points is actually going to have an easier time of it, and is actually the best choice in that regard. Indeed, if you start this quest and none of the heroes are carrying the talisman, Mentor will give it to the wizard (pretty sure this quest was written under the assumption the classic line-up of heroes were the only heroes available to use). However, if one of your heroes already has the talisman, there is no requirement for it to be given to any other hero - that hero will be the bearer.
I still don't have a copy of the Wandering Monk, so there will probably be a short break from HeroQuest on the channel (I think I have done seven HeroQuest videos this month). However, I do have more HeroQuest content to come.
Really enjoying this spoiler series for Zargon players! Any thoughts on doing Keller’s Keep or Return of the Witch Lord? About to dive into Keller’s and your perspective is appreciated on what to watch for as a Zargon player.
@@norty6357A few people have requested I do a deep dive on the other expansions, including Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord, so it is on the cards. I can't guarantee when right now though.
I covered DUN on the channel some time ago. During that coverage I did do a short playthrough, just to give an idea of some of the core gameplay mechanisms, but as I didn't enjoy the game I have already moved it on from my collection to make space.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring haha ahh... All joking aside, I really like this quest book. Though I would have liked some new artifacts, tiles and monsters... I might have given the "Demon" at the top of the tower an extra attack die and body point.
Turns out the demon was just the warlock doing a bit of moonlighting. I never did trust her... But yes, this is a really good quest book. A little rough around the edges in place, but a good, solid story and lots of inventive scenarios.
Some unusual maps for this quest seem like a great candidate for a playthrough, or is it just me? Goblin with Gorgoyle stats... Gobgoyle? Gorblin? P. S. Watch out, fellow traveler. The whole 'ABNB hates the Greenskins' thing might end up as running gag at this pace.
Ha. Don't get me wrong. I love greenskins. They were my first Warhammer Fantasy army back when fourth edition came out, and I almost always play HeroQuest as Zargon. I can't stand traitorous scum teaming up with those heroes though. I won't stand for it.
Word is Hasbro is looking to sell D&D and possibly even Wizards of the Coast along with it to Tencent. I have no idea what this means for Avalon Hill and Heroquest. And even though this is a rumor,it makes a lot of sense because Tencent owns the company that made Baldur's Gate 3 so they'd be pretty interested in acquiring it. Even at that,I'm expecting to see Heroquest at Ollie's at any time because that's just how Hasbro rolls these days. Really stupid. Basically shooting themselves in the foot while it's planted firmly in their mouths. So enjoy while you can because who knows how long it's going to last.
It's all a bit up in the air at the moment, with some conflicting information in the news, but as I understand it from current news reports, Tencent are negotiating the rights to future video games using the IPs in such a way to have more control over what they do with them.
Just to update this. As suspected, Hasbro have confirmed they aren't selling D&D. Almost certainly just moves being made in the hopes of securing another Baldur's Gate 3 success story in the future.
Considering D&D and Magic are some of their most profitable assets, it always seemed stupid to me they would be talking of selling the IPs when they need profitable assets more than ever. As soon as I read the Speed Daily article it looked to me like negotiations for more digital projects, and it looked like a rumour that got blown up because people know Hasbro aren't in the healthiest position right now. People will believe what they want to believe, especially when it's a company they aren't happy with, as they are almost hoping for the company to suffer, either to spite them or in the hopes the IPs will move to a "better" home. So, I am sure the noise around this situation will continue to vibrate on the Internet for a little while, but as far as I'm concerned, I believe Hasbro's official stance over any rumours right now and I would need some proof to change my mind.
Not the first time. Kellars Keep & Against the Ogre Horde makes it at least 3 times they've "taken inspiration" from the same story. Mainly interesting how they managed to get 3 very different campaigns out of it - and arguably they are 3 of the strongest? Each of them drawing on different elements.
These Zargon focused quest breakdowns are absolutely **fantastic**. They really help get the creative ideas flowing!
Thank you so much. I'm glad you're enjoying them.
It’s a really good point about traps in odd places. Me & my family have added a house rule that specific items you want to search like treasure chests and furniture you need to be standing next to it.
I suspect a lot of people do that. I sort of um and ah about it. On the one hand, it forces heroes deeper into rooms, and makes it possible to do more elaborate traps, but it also draws the game out slightly, and I do like how quick and immediate searching is when you can do the whole room in one go. I think both options have their advantages.
7:11 The bowing skeletons was an amazing moment at our table. Shouts of disbelief and confused looks everywhere. Top 10 moments in our entire HQ campaign thus far for sure 🤘
It's a really good moment, and should really give the heroes the creeps as they start to realise the implications.
Another fantastic HEROQUEST video. I really enjoy hearing about your experiences and critique on each of the levels in the campaign. I’d personally love to hear your take on each level from the original campaign, Kellars Keep & Return of the Witch Lord. Either way keep up the good work. 👍🏻
Thanks so much for the kind words and the contribution to the channel. I really appreciate the support. I will take a closer look at some other HeroQuest expansions in the future.
6:11 The issue I ran into on quest 3 was the party being too powerful and wiping all the monsters before they had a chance to do anything special. The goblin only respawned once, which I had less of an issue since it was just a good roll. But the final demon, which I custom printed and painted (prior to the retail release) hoping for an epic fight was put to sleep and wiped before his first turn.
I’d strongly advocate for many of the levels starting on Zargon’s turn like an ambush if you have a medium to strong party, especially on the final demon.
As the Zargon player I try to modify dungeons as we go to scale them a bit. I don't think I would let the monsters go first in this situation because they will just crowd around the heroes on the stairs and the heroes won't even get to move, but making the monsters more powerful or something similar would help. It's tricky when you only have one room to play with.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring thats a good point. I don’t think I’d have every level have enemies ambushing, but maybe just a select few to spice it up.
In later quests I’ve been picking out a few monsters to give fire related spells and resistances. Whenever the bearer gets to an adjacent hall I drop hints that they can feel a radiant heat in the area or some other related thing to push the fire theme. Its been well received so far.
That sounds neat. I think having a real Zargon player who can lean into the roleplaying, modify the quests, and adapt the difficulty adds so much to the game. That's why, although I think the app is a good addition to the game and is great for those who do want to play solo, it will never replace having a real Zargon player for me.
In quest 11:
You can always replace the goblin for the miniature of imprisoned Ragnar (lots of us have this one costum 3d printed). Then you can say that instead of a undercover goblin its a human slave that helps you unlock the doors. I think this works waaay better
It’s a ruined elvish city so I’m just going to grab an elf from Mage of the Mirror.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring even better idea! Thanks
Yea, it's a single instance of a non-recurring character so any replacement is fine, really. I just thought it was funny after having friendly orcs in the previous expansion.
Ragnar would be a good choice if you wanted to build up to Rise of the Dread Moon because you could plant the seed that he actually led the assault on the city, but then had to present as heroic when the heroes find him.
Great review, as always! (Sorry if this is a little long.)
I remember reading the original three Mythic Tier Quest Books from scans that just happen to fall out of a trunk one day (totally legit! LOL). I recall how slapdash it all was in layout and information, so I categorized it as one of those untested early release books that gets fixed due to fan feedback. So yeah, like some old D&D or Judge's Guild module being reused for modern D&D/PF play, Zargon players will have to read though them **thoroughly** and adjust each part that makes no sense. Here were my notes about this Quest set:
In room were monsters are standing behind cupboards/bookcases, move the furniture back to the wall to avoid supposition and have the monster spring out of it on Zargon's turn (just like Ambush in WHQ). As transformed Orcs, Heroes are allowed use any artifacts and equipment usable by any Hero, and assume that everyone have at least a BRAOWDsword (sorry, I love saying that) so they don't die to quickly. Use the Witch Lord's Throne Room tile (most player will have it) as the Alter of High Mages, noting that the safest way down is by a "grand staircase" akin the the one on The Titanic (pointing for players to what-is-what). The books states it negates "all magic", so not being able to use basic equipment makes zero sense... so ignore that it says and allow for all non-magical Equipment (so, not the Wand), Potions and Skills. To keep the game flowing with Zargon's Flame, establish that the target numbers are 1 and 6, or 1 with hit with a Water spell.
I did not catch that "each Hero gets a Ring of Fortitude" at first, only catching it when I reread it as a physical booklet from the Quest Pack. I don't like the idea of having multiple Artifacts of the same type. Hell, I don't even like the idea of consumable Artifacts beyond the Elixir of Life and thus treat spell scrolls as their own thing! I like Artifacts to be unique and permanent (or at least, reusable). In this case, I rather have that boost to Body (even Mind) as an innate ability that comes with hard work and becoming better Heroes, and thus, cannot be striped away so easily with theft or some magic negation.
All good suggestions, I think. I really don't know why the arena suggests normal equipment can't be used. I think there is nothing there that could prevent a barbarian from swinging their sword. Trying to wade through that many enemies with a 1 dice attack would be horrible.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Maybe the book assume you default to your starting weapons? I get the feeling that Stephen Baker write the booklet with the mindset of the old EU rules where without Equipment cards in play, a Hero defaults to their starting Attack Dice score. There are a lot of little things that push me into this idea. Like the way Zargon's Flame works reminds me of the different ways powerful EU monsters are handled (Ogres, Doomguards/Dark Warriors, etc.) where the NA rules would just throw more Body Points at them.
His approach to adventure design was always eclectic, but I do love how they make each adventure stand out.
It's certainly possible, but it seems a bit strange that he would do that when working with Hasbro - I assume realising they were going to create a single definitive edition - and also when, by all accounts, the US rules set was closer to his original idea for the game anyway.
Never-the-less, it's a great adventure, but like with a lot of HeroQuest, there is work for a good Zargon player to do. This is why I prefer not to play with the app and to control the dungeon myself!
I love this quest. I love the corruption aspect of it.
It's got so many good ideas in it.
Awesome! I love the ideas in this Quest Pack and I want to run it now. I might see about buying the Quest Book on it's own though because I really don't need any of the box contents really ...
Hasbro has the quest book online for free download. Just go to their instructions page.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Excellent!!
Well, that settles it. I'm (pre)ordering this. Thanks for the great review!
I think it's a really good one all round, and if you like the warlock character as well, then it's an easy purchase.
I’ll personally switch friendly goblin with one of those mercenaries as a scout that just guide you
As you are in an elvish city that has recently been destroyed I will probably use an elf from one of the other expansions who is still fighting the invaders.
Also a good place to use the Warlock, maintaining the idea of a "spy", or someone corrupted by Dread Magic who is still fighting their fate - like a mirror of the person carrying the Talisman of Lore, only the Warlock ultimately can't overcome the lure of the power Dread offers.
Just a shame it comes a bit late in the campaign - would have been a good way to introduce a "back up hero" similar to how the Orc Bard is positioned in Spirit Queens Torment.
True
I think my next big purchase will be the new Heroquest, most expansions seem easy to get hold of, unlike most GW stuff
It's night and day with availability of HeroQuest compared to anything Games Workshop are doing. It's such a relief to know you don't have to jump on every new release on day one or else never own it.
Great stuff man! I picked this expansion pack on hasbro holiday sale. Keep it up, cheers!
Hope you enjoy it. Thanks for watching.
Glad that we all have the chance to play some new missions from Stephen Baker. I think I will play these on the old board.
It's a good expansion, all round.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Good stuff
Does it matter which type of Hero Character has the Talisman of Lore? For example, in one of my playing groups, the BARBARIAN has the Talisman of Lore. Will this be a problem when we play this Quest Book?
The quest does sort of work better if the wizard has the talisman, not only from a narrative perspective, but because a wizard is more susceptible to the corrupting influence of the talisman. A barbarian, having fewer mind points and more body points is actually going to have an easier time of it, and is actually the best choice in that regard.
Indeed, if you start this quest and none of the heroes are carrying the talisman, Mentor will give it to the wizard (pretty sure this quest was written under the assumption the classic line-up of heroes were the only heroes available to use). However, if one of your heroes already has the talisman, there is no requirement for it to be given to any other hero - that hero will be the bearer.
Great vid.
Thanks.
Guessing next would be Path of the Wandering Monk?
I still don't have a copy of the Wandering Monk, so there will probably be a short break from HeroQuest on the channel (I think I have done seven HeroQuest videos this month). However, I do have more HeroQuest content to come.
Really enjoying this spoiler series for Zargon players! Any thoughts on doing Keller’s Keep or Return of the Witch Lord? About to dive into Keller’s and your perspective is appreciated on what to watch for as a Zargon player.
@@norty6357A few people have requested I do a deep dive on the other expansions, including Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord, so it is on the cards. I can't guarantee when right now though.
Looks fun
Lots of inventive stuff going on.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring are you going to do a playthrouh of Dungeon Universalis?
I covered DUN on the channel some time ago. During that coverage I did do a short playthrough, just to give an idea of some of the core gameplay mechanisms, but as I didn't enjoy the game I have already moved it on from my collection to make space.
So the bad guy on the front of the box, do you think that is Melar or Fellmarak?
Hey! It's a Prophecy of Telor Tell-All 😂
Telor? I don't even know her.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring haha ahh... All joking aside, I really like this quest book. Though I would have liked some new artifacts, tiles and monsters... I might have given the "Demon" at the top of the tower an extra attack die and body point.
Turns out the demon was just the warlock doing a bit of moonlighting. I never did trust her...
But yes, this is a really good quest book. A little rough around the edges in place, but a good, solid story and lots of inventive scenarios.
Some unusual maps for this quest seem like a great candidate for a playthrough, or is it just me?
Goblin with Gorgoyle stats... Gobgoyle? Gorblin?
P. S. Watch out, fellow traveler. The whole 'ABNB hates the Greenskins' thing might end up as running gag at this pace.
Ha. Don't get me wrong. I love greenskins. They were my first Warhammer Fantasy army back when fourth edition came out, and I almost always play HeroQuest as Zargon. I can't stand traitorous scum teaming up with those heroes though. I won't stand for it.
🔥
Word is Hasbro is looking to sell D&D and possibly even Wizards of the Coast along with it to Tencent. I have no idea what this means for Avalon Hill and Heroquest. And even though this is a rumor,it makes a lot of sense because Tencent owns the company that made Baldur's Gate 3 so they'd be pretty interested in acquiring it. Even at that,I'm expecting to see Heroquest at Ollie's at any time because that's just how Hasbro rolls these days. Really stupid. Basically shooting themselves in the foot while it's planted firmly in their mouths.
So enjoy while you can because who knows how long it's going to last.
Isn't it just the rights to make video games based on WotC properties?
It's all a bit up in the air at the moment, with some conflicting information in the news, but as I understand it from current news reports, Tencent are negotiating the rights to future video games using the IPs in such a way to have more control over what they do with them.
Just to update this. As suspected, Hasbro have confirmed they aren't selling D&D. Almost certainly just moves being made in the hopes of securing another Baldur's Gate 3 success story in the future.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Considering how stupid Hasbro is,they might just be saying that to keep people from panicking.
Considering D&D and Magic are some of their most profitable assets, it always seemed stupid to me they would be talking of selling the IPs when they need profitable assets more than ever. As soon as I read the Speed Daily article it looked to me like negotiations for more digital projects, and it looked like a rumour that got blown up because people know Hasbro aren't in the healthiest position right now.
People will believe what they want to believe, especially when it's a company they aren't happy with, as they are almost hoping for the company to suffer, either to spite them or in the hopes the IPs will move to a "better" home. So, I am sure the noise around this situation will continue to vibrate on the Internet for a little while, but as far as I'm concerned, I believe Hasbro's official stance over any rumours right now and I would need some proof to change my mind.
At least they decided to crib a pretty obscure and niche story. Not much chance that any of the players will recognize anything.
Ha, yes. I thought the plot had a nice ring to it.
Not the first time.
Kellars Keep & Against the Ogre Horde makes it at least 3 times they've "taken inspiration" from the same story.
Mainly interesting how they managed to get 3 very different campaigns out of it - and arguably they are 3 of the strongest?
Each of them drawing on different elements.