It looks like the first prototype of the engine, it's is revolutionary but not ready to use for everybody yet. I'm looking forward to the pre serial. Thank you !
Polychoron didn't invent this idea, and it's been used for over a decade by multiple people. As far as I know, Stephen Malinowski was one of the first people to use this idea of circle of fifths based harmonic coloring. Check out his channel Musanim here on youtube. His videos have millions of views. I'm slightly pissed off that Polychoron didn't even so much as mention him in this video.
@@asukalangleysoryu6695 Even earlier, Alexander Scriabin came up with his own colour wheel based on the circle of fifths, similar to the one used in this video (with D in yellow).
Thanks for this marvelous explanation! a sub for ya for many years I have been a fan of smalin (the goat music visualizer) and he have been using this harmony visualization for more than 10 years now and coincidently he also uses blue for the tonic
You’re a lifesaver. I’m new to singing and music theory and I’ve been obsessing about the visualization of pitch while singing. It seemed like a much more logical way to recognize specific notes but I knew it was going to be a very time consuming concept to properly explore. You literally saved me days worth of time. I’m going to binge some videos in between training to help the algo and give you some time back😂
Whether the theory behind this is accurate or not, this looks like a really interesting visualization. A nice addition to it could be a change in the saturation or brightness of the notes depending on their volume. Also, this reminds me of a rare condition where a person will visualize music and sound in general as colours they can see through their eyes. It would be interesting to compare the colours they see to music harmony for similarities.
Imho it would be better to create the color spectrum from how far you need to go in the overtone series to reach a note, rather than from the circle of fifths. For example with your approach the E in a C Major triad would be colored very differently, but with the overtone approach it would be the three most similar colors.
Keep it in classical notation, but add colored backgrounds on the note's line/column, that way you don't have to sacrifice anything (other than elegance) to fit the colors into the standard. :) (Coloring the notes is also an option, but I'm not sure it has enough punch.
I would love to see this applied to spectagrams to include the colors of the overtone timbres as well as fundamentals and have the colors interfere constructively to make white where theres noise, and , and project the timeline moving towards the viewer rather than linearly from left to right. also velocity should affect how bright the note is.
I think the best way of writing/reading melodies is to have seven spaces for the scale separated by 5 lines for the chromatic notes. and between 7 and 1; and 3 and 4 there are no lines. Wanna write it down? Try to start with 6 7 1 2... Then it's symmetrical with 6 lines. And you have the 1 chord and 6 chord fit in there. Pitch height can be managed by different shapes of the notes. For example triangles and squares.
real cool. i like what you are working on. there is a very important variable relevant to this topic. instead of color coating based on the surface level shallow detail of a specific chord, you could color code based on the deepest level of meaning the function . (* if the specific context was tonal music functional harmony language) so 12 tone e.t. is broken into 4 main distinct harmonic languages. ( each with different and distinct deep level of meaning ) tonal music ( functional harmony) modal music language polytonal music language atonal music language so , if one was to color code the music based on its deepest level of meaning , you would have a different color coding system for each of the 4 distinct languages. ( however, because these four distinct languages actually connect by several vertices in order to form one unified holographic and fractal harmony in those specific instances where a particular song integrated all four distinct languages , then you would have a different color coating for each separate language even though they holographically come together as 1 unified theory of harmony. ) the vertices in which the four distinct languages come together as one is modal music language connects to tonal music language through the subdominant function ( taking a key and reorientating the gravity focus at the Lydian and dorian vertices. so example to connect tonal music language key of cmajor ( in which the gravity is focused at Cmajor and A minor) you switch the gravity to F lydian and D dorian , ( now in this example of connecting modal language with tonal music language at the set of vertices you have 4 positions of gravity. if you use C major or A min as force of gravity you get consonance and dissoance with the tonic and dominant relationship. if you switch the force of gravity to F lydian and D dorian you have 1 unity of harmony next, connecting the vertices of tonal music language with polytonal language and atonal music language. these are connected through the dominant function in tonal music language. by expanding the dominant chord G7 in the key of cmajor to include its substitutions of G altered and G HW diminished you can connect the vertices of polytonal and atonal distinct languages. ( the same also goes for the relative minor A minor its dominant function E7) so in total the modal language connects to the tonal language through the subdominant function ( by reorientation of gravity into lydian and dorian) and the polytonal and atonal languages connect to the tonal language by the dominant function ( by reorientation of gravity into Altered dominant combined with diminished and augmented.) one could color coat , first each language by its meaning, and second the vertices in which each language combines into 1 unified holographic fractal harmony. ( this may be a fruitful undertaking to invest energy into creating because it could revolutionize human learning regarding expert level harmony of music) if i just sound crazy to you lol :D then i hope yo at least appreciate the conversation fine sir!
It's a lovely visualisation, but it's all based on a pun! Pitches in sound have to do with harmonics, frequencies that exactly divide each other or that have a nearby common divisor. Octaves in sound are the 2:1 ratio, the simplest (and therefore strongest) harmonic, and our perception of octaves most likely exists because harmonics and overtones are the same thing-if you hear a pitch it might actually be caused by something that would also resonate an octave lower, so it's adaptive to perceive the one as closely related to the other. The “circle” of pitches is the transposition of one octave to another over the multi-octave audible range, which (for purely mathematical reasons) maintains the relative relationships of pitches. The entire audible range is detected continuously and almost uniformly, and the relationships between pitches are recovered (as I understand it, anyway) neurally. Importantly, if you hear a chord, you (to a first approximation) hear all the component frequencies of that chord. Light, meanwhile, we perceive over a range of less than one (optical) octave (for most “normal” people with undamaged/unmodified eyes, and under “normal” circumstances). Not only that, but we do not perceive it continuously, as we do sound; rather, we (most of us-some people are exceptional-and speaking of brightly lit scenes) perceive only three distinct colours, red, green and blue. We perceive a continuum of colour not because we have detectors for many different optical wavelengths, but because the frequency selectivity of our sensors is very low. So low, in fact, that the “red” sensors are triggered by green light and vice versa. The “red” sensors are not even red-specific, they are merely red-preferential. In any case, our colour vision works because within the slightly-less-than-one-octave visible range, any frequency stimulates _at least_ one of those kinds of sensors, and our brain estimates the frequency by considering the ratio of the strengths of the R, G and B signals. This means that if you see a (visual) chord you do not perceive the individual components; you see the same colour you would have seen if a single frequency had stimulated the R, G and B receptors in the same ratios. Despite the fact that visual range is not far from an octave, the actual reason that colours can be arranged into a “colour wheel” is _not_ a 2:1 harmonic ratio; you simply cannot see an octave up into ultraviolet or an octave down into infrared. Rather, it is due to a different piece of mathematics, that three points make a triangle, which is a planar (rather than a linear) figure. Discounting white, the brightest perceived colours are yellow (when red and green both respond as strongly as possible), cyan (when green and blue respond), and magenta (when red and blue respond). This observation leads us to the red-yellow-green-cyan-blue-magenta-red-… organisation of the colour wheel, like shifting our weight on a three legged stool. However, while a perceived yellow can be the result of monochromatic yellow light OR simultaneous red and green (which is how a computer monitor makes yellow-it has no way of emitting yellow light); and while a perceived cyan can come from either cyan light OR simultaneous green and blue (again, a computer uses this chording method); a magenta perception can come only from a “chord” of red and blue light, because any single frequency that stimulated both red and blue would necessarily also stimulate the green receptor. Indeed, it would stimulate the green receptor more than the red and blue ones, and would appear green. So, it's a sad thing for pseudoscience, but pitch circles and colour wheels are related more by coincidence than physics, beguiling though the appearances may be. And-I remain to be convinced that you revised “circle of fifths” representation is continuous, which you took as one of your initial requirements (though for a certain level of not unrelated mind-blowage, look up p-adic numbers). All that said, I reiterate that it's a lovely and charming visualisation!
You are vastly oversimplifying how color works here.You're really talking about hue, and the subset of hues that are part of the visible spectrum. The fact that we have color receptors with three different frequency responses, and combine them in ways that allow multiple ways of generating a given color, and the fact that we actually process those signals via a complex three-pair ("opponent process") model, really means color space is much more complex than pitch space. There's no pitch ratio-type organizing principle. People just don't respond to color the way you're assuming; it's more like timbre than pitch.
that CbM7#11add13 makes me sad visually lol. I did have to pause to get a handle on it, but if it were notated as a BM7#11add13 instead I probably would have had a sense of it without pausing. Granted, I've been a theory dweeb since I first played recorder in grade school lol. Was captivated by how some lines and dots could be understood by many at once to create something more than the sum of it's parts. Ingrained it so much that I tend to think in music in terms of notation, and can usually see notation and have an understanding of how it will sound. But this kinda revealed a weak point tbh, in that there are still particular groupings/patterns that look entirely foreign simply due to enharmonic equivalence making something familiar seem entirely foreign. Like, taking any complex chord and showing it enharmonic equivalent side by side, it can be near impossible to work out at the usual pace. Kind of odd tbh how two things can be literally identical when played as audio side by side yet visually look totally alien to one another.
Dang, I might be pausing every 10 seconds of the video to write an essay lmao. But I'm so glad to see someone associate color and pitch! I took up pixel art as a hobby last winter and got really into color theory, and definitely made a lot of associations between the color wheel and circle of fifths. I haven't explored it as much as I would ultimately like to, but this got me considering it again. Never really encountered anybody else making the same mental connections there, not that they don't exist I'm sure.
the piano roll playback colored according to the circle of 5ths made me audibly gasp and say "WOAH!" lol. It immediately affirmed considerations of mine I hadn't explored as deeply as I'd have liked. But associating keys with particular pallets is a fascinating line of thought. I'm currently learning programming and want to experiment with combining visual and audio elements once I'm a bit better and know I can have a specific idea and have the ability to actually implement it in code
I actually have a second channel where I’ve posted a number of them. I particularly like how “Le Gibet” turned out. ua-cam.com/channels/rJdcopdp-Rifx_ERGwlXqQ.html
Great, but how can I use this now on my own? How did you do that? I really would like to see a tool, that I can color my favorite chord progressions, or show the color pallet of my favorite songs. Could you tell us how. Thanks
Hey! I've been working on something really similar to what's in your latest video and I'd love to join the discord and share with you. The link isn't working though. Could you post it again?
3:31 what are you talking about? This isn't true at all, and you know it. Brain fart maybe? Or are you oversimplifying for the sake of time? First of all "perceived distance in pitch" and "harmonic distance" are the same thing. And both are perceived as ratios. A2 and A3 are the same perceived pitch difference as A4 and A5, an octave, because the ratio between the frequencies is 2:1 in both cases. Even though the absolute difference is 110 Hz for A2/A3 and 440 Hz for A4/A5. Difference in pitch, intervals, is always perceived by ratio, never by difference. That is how the human ear works. What you probably actually meant to say is that simple ratios between pitches usually sound naturally good to our ears. That is why the octave (2:1), perfect fifth (3:2) and thirds (5:4, 6:5) are used in western music, and hence why our harmonic coloring scheme should be based on the fifth, not on the minor second. None of this has anything to do with absolute differences in pitch. You're a smart guy and I love your vids, please don't let this kind of false info slip into your videos.
What if, a la guitar hero and rock band, those colours could be utilized to make sight reading/ generally playing and accessing music, theory, etc; rather than sight reading them being impossible,… somebody’s brain would probably love reading and learning through the colours?! Hmm A keyboard that produces those colours is a really cool idea with or without that ^^^
brother I am colorblind crying
bruh 💀
This channel is a gold mine! I'm shocked you aren't as popular as other music theory channels.
It looks like the first prototype of the engine, it's is revolutionary but not ready to use for everybody yet. I'm looking forward to the pre serial. Thank you !
Polychoron didn't invent this idea, and it's been used for over a decade by multiple people. As far as I know, Stephen Malinowski was one of the first people to use this idea of circle of fifths based harmonic coloring. Check out his channel Musanim here on youtube. His videos have millions of views. I'm slightly pissed off that Polychoron didn't even so much as mention him in this video.
@@asukalangleysoryu6695 Even earlier, Alexander Scriabin came up with his own colour wheel based on the circle of fifths, similar to the one used in this video (with D in yellow).
@@asukalangleysoryu6695 his main channel is smalin
Great video. Of course, it's a way that requires some adjustments, but it's pretty cool to know an alternative proposal.
Thanks for this marvelous explanation! a sub for ya
for many years I have been a fan of smalin (the goat music visualizer) and he have been using this harmony visualization for more than 10 years now and coincidently he also uses blue for the tonic
Excellent video! The production and video quality has been raised up a notch. The wait was worthwhile lol
You’re a lifesaver. I’m new to singing and music theory and I’ve been obsessing about the visualization of pitch while singing. It seemed like a much more logical way to recognize specific notes but I knew it was going to be a very time consuming concept to properly explore. You literally saved me days worth of time. I’m going to binge some videos in between training to help the algo and give you some time back😂
Whether the theory behind this is accurate or not, this looks like a really interesting visualization.
A nice addition to it could be a change in the saturation or brightness of the notes depending on their volume.
Also, this reminds me of a rare condition where a person will visualize music and sound in general as colours they can see through their eyes. It would be interesting to compare the colours they see to music harmony for similarities.
Imho it would be better to create the color spectrum from how far you need to go in the overtone series to reach a note, rather than from the circle of fifths.
For example with your approach the E in a C Major triad would be colored very differently, but with the overtone approach it would be the three most similar colors.
Would 6/5 5/3 etc use the undertone series
from C you would reach an F# much quicker than an F tho but F is arguably more 'close' so I agree with the idea of the undertone series above
this is the difference between relative and absolute pitch, right?
This was a straight shot, nice work
Keep it in classical notation, but add colored backgrounds on the note's line/column, that way you don't have to sacrifice anything (other than elegance) to fit the colors into the standard. :)
(Coloring the notes is also an option, but I'm not sure it has enough punch.
Thank you so much! One of the greatest video on the harmony topic I've seen so far
I would love to see this applied to spectagrams to include the colors of the overtone timbres as well as fundamentals and have the colors interfere constructively to make white where theres noise, and , and project the timeline moving towards the viewer rather than linearly from left to right. also velocity should affect how bright the note is.
People with synesthesia: Duh
Very cool! You should talk to Smalin about his harmonic coloring!
I think the best way of writing/reading melodies is to have seven spaces for the scale separated by 5 lines for the chromatic notes. and between 7 and 1; and 3 and 4 there are no lines.
Wanna write it down?
Try to start with 6 7 1 2... Then it's symmetrical with 6 lines. And you have the 1 chord and 6 chord fit in there.
Pitch height can be managed by different shapes of the notes. For example triangles and squares.
Someone liked my comment. Did someone try it out? Let me know!😃
fascinating!
real cool. i like what you are working on.
there is a very important variable relevant to this topic.
instead of color coating based on the surface level shallow detail of a specific chord, you could color code based on the deepest level of meaning the function .
(* if the specific context was tonal music functional harmony language)
so 12 tone e.t. is
broken into 4 main distinct harmonic languages. ( each with different and distinct deep level of meaning )
tonal music ( functional harmony)
modal music language
polytonal music language
atonal music language
so , if one was to color code the music based on its deepest level of meaning , you would have a different color coding system for each of the 4 distinct languages.
( however, because these four distinct languages actually connect by several vertices in order to form one unified holographic and fractal harmony in those specific instances where a particular song integrated all four distinct languages , then you would have a different color coating for each separate language even though they holographically come together as 1 unified theory of harmony. )
the vertices in which the four distinct languages come together as one is
modal music language connects to tonal music language through the subdominant function
( taking a key and reorientating the gravity focus at the Lydian and dorian vertices.
so example to connect tonal music language key of cmajor ( in which the gravity is focused at Cmajor and A minor)
you switch the gravity to F lydian and D dorian ,
( now in this example of connecting modal language with tonal music language at the set of vertices you have 4 positions of gravity.
if you use C major or A min as force of gravity you get consonance and dissoance with the tonic and dominant relationship.
if you switch the force of gravity to F lydian and D dorian you have 1 unity of harmony
next, connecting the vertices of tonal music language with polytonal language and atonal music language.
these are connected through the dominant function in tonal music language.
by expanding the dominant chord G7 in the key of cmajor to include its substitutions of G altered and G HW diminished
you can connect the vertices of polytonal and atonal distinct languages.
( the same also goes for the relative minor A minor its dominant function E7)
so in total the modal language connects to the tonal language through the subdominant function ( by reorientation of gravity into lydian and dorian)
and the polytonal and atonal languages connect to the tonal language by the dominant function ( by reorientation of gravity into Altered dominant combined with diminished and augmented.)
one could color coat , first each language by its meaning, and second the vertices in which each language combines into 1 unified holographic fractal harmony.
( this may be a fruitful undertaking to invest energy into creating because it could revolutionize human learning regarding expert level harmony of music)
if i just sound crazy to you lol :D then i hope yo at least appreciate the conversation fine sir!
Criminally underrated channel
I missed you
Amazing stuff thank you for the content!
It's a lovely visualisation, but it's all based on a pun!
Pitches in sound have to do with harmonics, frequencies that exactly divide each other or that have a nearby common divisor. Octaves in sound are the 2:1 ratio, the simplest (and therefore strongest) harmonic, and our perception of octaves most likely exists because harmonics and overtones are the same thing-if you hear a pitch it might actually be caused by something that would also resonate an octave lower, so it's adaptive to perceive the one as closely related to the other. The “circle” of pitches is the transposition of one octave to another over the multi-octave audible range, which (for purely mathematical reasons) maintains the relative relationships of pitches. The entire audible range is detected continuously and almost uniformly, and the relationships between pitches are recovered (as I understand it, anyway) neurally. Importantly, if you hear a chord, you (to a first approximation) hear all the component frequencies of that chord.
Light, meanwhile, we perceive over a range of less than one (optical) octave (for most “normal” people with undamaged/unmodified eyes, and under “normal” circumstances). Not only that, but we do not perceive it continuously, as we do sound; rather, we (most of us-some people are exceptional-and speaking of brightly lit scenes) perceive only three distinct colours, red, green and blue. We perceive a continuum of colour not because we have detectors for many different optical wavelengths, but because the frequency selectivity of our sensors is very low. So low, in fact, that the “red” sensors are triggered by green light and vice versa. The “red” sensors are not even red-specific, they are merely red-preferential. In any case, our colour vision works because within the slightly-less-than-one-octave visible range, any frequency stimulates _at least_ one of those kinds of sensors, and our brain estimates the frequency by considering the ratio of the strengths of the R, G and B signals. This means that if you see a (visual) chord you do not perceive the individual components; you see the same colour you would have seen if a single frequency had stimulated the R, G and B receptors in the same ratios. Despite the fact that visual range is not far from an octave, the actual reason that colours can be arranged into a “colour wheel” is _not_ a 2:1 harmonic ratio; you simply cannot see an octave up into ultraviolet or an octave down into infrared. Rather, it is due to a different piece of mathematics, that three points make a triangle, which is a planar (rather than a linear) figure. Discounting white, the brightest perceived colours are yellow (when red and green both respond as strongly as possible), cyan (when green and blue respond), and magenta (when red and blue respond). This observation leads us to the red-yellow-green-cyan-blue-magenta-red-… organisation of the colour wheel, like shifting our weight on a three legged stool. However, while a perceived yellow can be the result of monochromatic yellow light OR simultaneous red and green (which is how a computer monitor makes yellow-it has no way of emitting yellow light); and while a perceived cyan can come from either cyan light OR simultaneous green and blue (again, a computer uses this chording method); a magenta perception can come only from a “chord” of red and blue light, because any single frequency that stimulated both red and blue would necessarily also stimulate the green receptor. Indeed, it would stimulate the green receptor more than the red and blue ones, and would appear green.
So, it's a sad thing for pseudoscience, but pitch circles and colour wheels are related more by coincidence than physics, beguiling though the appearances may be.
And-I remain to be convinced that you revised “circle of fifths” representation is continuous, which you took as one of your initial requirements (though for a certain level of not unrelated mind-blowage, look up p-adic numbers).
All that said, I reiterate that it's a lovely and charming visualisation!
❤ Awesomeness 😊
So good! Could you mention the program you use to create the visualizations? Now I want to do it myself hahahaha
If Debussy had known about this coloring system, he wouldn’t have hated being tied to impressionist paintings
You are vastly oversimplifying how color works here.You're really talking about hue, and the subset of hues that are part of the visible spectrum. The fact that we have color receptors with three different frequency responses, and combine them in ways that allow multiple ways of generating a given color, and the fact that we actually process those signals via a complex three-pair ("opponent process") model, really means color space is much more complex than pitch space. There's no pitch ratio-type organizing principle. People just don't respond to color the way you're assuming; it's more like timbre than pitch.
Viewers: “Source?”
Polychoron: “m e.”
Interesting work.
Wow, that's much better!
Doesn't feel like a super great visualization. You might be able to spot modulations, but not much of anything else.
Conclusion: I’m colorblind
that CbM7#11add13 makes me sad visually lol. I did have to pause to get a handle on it, but if it were notated as a BM7#11add13 instead I probably would have had a sense of it without pausing. Granted, I've been a theory dweeb since I first played recorder in grade school lol. Was captivated by how some lines and dots could be understood by many at once to create something more than the sum of it's parts. Ingrained it so much that I tend to think in music in terms of notation, and can usually see notation and have an understanding of how it will sound. But this kinda revealed a weak point tbh, in that there are still particular groupings/patterns that look entirely foreign simply due to enharmonic equivalence making something familiar seem entirely foreign. Like, taking any complex chord and showing it enharmonic equivalent side by side, it can be near impossible to work out at the usual pace. Kind of odd tbh how two things can be literally identical when played as audio side by side yet visually look totally alien to one another.
Dang, I might be pausing every 10 seconds of the video to write an essay lmao. But I'm so glad to see someone associate color and pitch! I took up pixel art as a hobby last winter and got really into color theory, and definitely made a lot of associations between the color wheel and circle of fifths. I haven't explored it as much as I would ultimately like to, but this got me considering it again. Never really encountered anybody else making the same mental connections there, not that they don't exist I'm sure.
Shit I made the previous comment before you mentioned color theory or music theory, I should just let the video play out lol
in terms of color in a chord, we also have the term "blue note"
the piano roll playback colored according to the circle of 5ths made me audibly gasp and say "WOAH!" lol. It immediately affirmed considerations of mine I hadn't explored as deeply as I'd have liked. But associating keys with particular pallets is a fascinating line of thought. I'm currently learning programming and want to experiment with combining visual and audio elements once I'm a bit better and know I can have a specific idea and have the ability to actually implement it in code
Colorblind people watching this video be like
what if light is the pitch of the eyes and color is the instrument (the sound in the end)
Very cool!
Very cool method for visualizing the Harmony, Can you make more videos with Only the colored music playing ? Thank you
I actually have a second channel where I’ve posted a number of them. I particularly like how “Le Gibet” turned out. ua-cam.com/channels/rJdcopdp-Rifx_ERGwlXqQ.html
@@PolychoronProductions thank you very much
Great, but how can I use this now on my own? How did you do that? I really would like to see a tool, that I can color my favorite chord progressions, or show the color pallet of my favorite songs. Could you tell us how. Thanks
Hey! I've been working on something really similar to what's in your latest video and I'd love to join the discord and share with you. The link isn't working though. Could you post it again?
I will go through and fix the broken links. For now, here is a working one: discord.gg/vSEZHYPCBe
3:31 what are you talking about? This isn't true at all, and you know it. Brain fart maybe? Or are you oversimplifying for the sake of time?
First of all "perceived distance in pitch" and "harmonic distance" are the same thing. And both are perceived as ratios. A2 and A3 are the same perceived pitch difference as A4 and A5, an octave, because the ratio between the frequencies is 2:1 in both cases. Even though the absolute difference is 110 Hz for A2/A3 and 440 Hz for A4/A5. Difference in pitch, intervals, is always perceived by ratio, never by difference. That is how the human ear works.
What you probably actually meant to say is that simple ratios between pitches usually sound naturally good to our ears. That is why the octave (2:1), perfect fifth (3:2) and thirds (5:4, 6:5) are used in western music, and hence why our harmonic coloring scheme should be based on the fifth, not on the minor second.
None of this has anything to do with absolute differences in pitch. You're a smart guy and I love your vids, please don't let this kind of false info slip into your videos.
This is chrome music lab song maker.
And those who are red/green color blind do what… exactly?
What if, a la guitar hero and rock band, those colours could be utilized to make sight reading/ generally playing and accessing music, theory, etc; rather than sight reading them being impossible,… somebody’s brain would probably love reading and learning through the colours?! Hmm
A keyboard that produces those colours is a really cool idea with or without that ^^^
What if I'm color blind lol
RIP
Why can't we just make sheet music in color? Quarter notes half notes and so on but now in color
In case others are wondering the same question I found a website that can do that called flat.