Keep in mind that the vast majority of the ARVN, officers and soldiers, were brand new recruits only under training for ~3-4 years. The defeat, a culmination of communication failure and lack of experience, would have been overcome by a strong officer corps. But the thing is, a strong officer corps takes generations to develop.
People are already concluding how poorly the ARVN performed and how it was all worthless in the end. Keep in mind that this battle only happened 4 years after the ARVN was had undergone a massive restructuring and expansion in 1959.
9:05 : Was there any significant effort to help South Vietnam develop a denser road network to help support ARVN operations ? It might also have helped boost the economy and gain more support in the countryside. Also, since my Vietnamese is extremely rusty, is it possible to get a list of the songs used in the video ?
Yes, the U.S. did help South Vietnam improve its road network. New bridges were built and unpaved roads were, well, paved. However, PLAF did interdict roads--landmines and ambushes--which kept some key rural routes closed for much of the American War. As for your last question, we used recording form a Saigon Government radio broadcast and not individuals tracks.
The economy was entirely based on rubber for exports (I think about 80% of exports?). It would not have helped the economy - there was only so much rubber needed in the world. Also Japan was developing synthetic rubber during this time. And the city economy was basically American aid - tons of TVs, radios, etc. But all supplied by US money.
@@Dayvit78 South Vietnam had a developing economy stagnated by war. To know what could have happened if the U.S. didn't try to help South Vietnam economically is counterfactual.
This felt to short. I'm missing the effects of what the us army had on ARVN when they were deployed. And if anything changes when the generals came into power. The conclusion I get is that the army failed because of its officer core. Is there going to be an analysis of Afghanistan to? Or is this to recent?
Its not a full scale documentary or analysis. It shows what training foreign military entails and what challenges it faces. Its an interesting example because it proved so misguided and unsuccesful in the end.
ARVN problem was poor leadership and politicians! Arvn was just as capable in combat as NVA/VC there was no difference in them. However, political meddling, corruption, and poor leadership destroyed that. US should've taken full control of ARVN in 55 and not relinquished that control without withholding support! Colonel David Hackworth wrote about this in "ABOUT FACE "! peace
Wrong , arvn soldier are mix quality , there really good division that can rival any nva division aka the airbone , marine , ranger ,.. then there more shitty division form by mostly drafty
@@guyring8912 Yeah, there was one Arvn battalion who was known to be corrupt, they ruined it for the whole arvn. Most of Arvn were not corrupt, most of the ARVN was defending an invasion. The ARVN never left a man behind, there was a story about this USA soldier who was a football player that got stuck in one of the holes. Instead of retreating, ARVN stood by him and fought off the Viet Cong and NVA. No one ever talks about the courage of the ARVN, they literally fought til the end.
So if ARVN had Better leadership, we Could've won the battle of AP Bac, it would become a tactical and strategic victory for the South and the US, After this when Ngo Dinh Diem is assassinated, the south would Deploy ARVN to protect the DMZ and Hue, while US troops conduct Combine Action program(But not search and destroy) and incursions into Laos and Cambodia early, the Tiller reform and Vietnamization happen Early, The South would've stand a chance or be more stronger than the North, keep in mind although the Tet offensive did lower hopes of winning, it did increase the South's determination and fear over the Communist, more strategic and tactical victories would increase morale, determination and hope and support. And if the US invaded and took dong hoi and Half of Quang binh, the North's determination would increase but at what cost, South became more stable(So did Khmer republic and Kingdom of Laos) and stronger, and gained more support.
Be that as it may, it seems odd that the NVA didn't have corruption issues of its own. Was perhaps the way the two sides dealt with, or didn't deal with corruption, a contributing factor to the failure of the American Efforts? This failure to address Civil-Military Corruption within a FID mission seems to be an ongoing thing with the Army. To my mind, as both an ex-infantry and ex-civil-affairs solder, running down and then addressing this corruption is THE MISSION for Civil Affairs in a FID mission! There is no way the Army is going to succeed in future FID missions with Civil Affairs Subordinate to JSOC. Civil Affairs needs its own 4-star command and its own permanent G/S Shop on staff!
the PAVN was politically motivated so while they almost certainly had problems with corruption, suffering it to such a level it impacted operations would have been something the north vietnamese government would've fought against, specially with the battlefield pressures the americans gave.
The PAVN made a point about it. There's a pretty famous case of a Colonel who was trying to sell part of the cloth assigned to making ponchos for the PAVN and NLF. He got the squad, and tried to get a pardon from then-president Ho Chi Minh. Ho Chi MInh's response was something along the lines of "to heal a rotting tree, you must first get rid of the parasites". Vietnam punishes the corrupt with the squad even today.
The PAVN made a point about it. There's a pretty famous case of a Colonel who was trying to sell part of the cloth assigned to making ponchos for the PAVN and NLF. He got the squad, and tried to get a pardon from then-president Ho Chi Minh. Ho Chi MInh's response was something along the lines of "to heal a rotting tree, you must first get rid of the parasites". Vietnam punishes the corrupt with the squad even today.
Lt. Colonel John Paul Vann was the U.S. advisor for Colonel Cao ARVN. Vann had came up with the plan to attack a VC battalion discovered outside Ap Bac, Cao and his subordinates stalled and balked and ruined the entire plan of attack and the VC killed numerous ARVN and CIDF forces and shot several helicopters down and failed miserably.
After this incident it is amazing that LTC Van continued to try to change the behavior of the ARVN. At some point in time he found out Pres Diem did not want casualties. Puzzling two groups of people one will die for their country (NVN), the other will evade combat. I was drafted in 1968 in Army, I did not go to Vietnam, I did everything I could to evade going because the way the War was fought did not make sense to me. Made my blood boil to think of how much US TAXPAYER $$$ WERE SQUANDERED IN PURSUIT OF SOMEBODIES PIPEDREAM. No accountablility. As one English newspaper commented on the American Revolutionary War "the King squandered the National Treasury in pursuit of his personal ambition."
@@pakers2128 LTC. Vann was a fool and a sexual predator and JFK's Ambassador appointee to the Republic of Vietnam and the CIA are conniving and murderous fools for instigating the successful coup against Diem.
The major reason that caused the ARVN to collapse is Bolero (Spanish music) that music is just too good it caused soldiers to lost morale significantly to the point of desertion
In Ap Bac the ARVN commanders refuse follow the guidance of the American advisor flight about the battlefield because they "don't take orders from Americans". The paratroopers land in the Vietcong line of fire because their command don't accept the American advisor instruction for landing behind Vietcong lines. If an ARVF commander lost many soldiers, he lost their face, can lost his command, his career - Dien want fight a war without causalities. In the end ARVN commanders lost the battle, lost many soldier and lost their faces.
"They fought and they fought hard" Yeah, right. The 1975 Spring Offensive is supposed to end in summer 1976. The PAVN expected the ARVN to collapse in 18 months from the beginning of the operation, and it only took them 4.
Go owl kante far owl group posason pablek polte dea maseg baeras kora may owl kante posason Monte bagladas poles moela Ashraf ahbeb ahloden salam jone Rab rme debe farsabes owl group cat Joan oief Komela repon faem sadea sota pake jadotona kora far go sotapor far log ahera me hoday cat
Clearly none of these "assessments" occurred in Vietnam. The ARVN had a FEW crack units, but was dominated by jaw-dropping corruption, incompetence, low or no morale, poor or no training/equipment, and outright laughable leadership in both the United States and South Vietnamese governments. Our armed forces were forced to fight for a losing cause by weak, timid, dishonest, and incompetent leaders (Lynden Johnson, Nixon, Robert McNamara, etc) who make even Putin and his sycophants look somewhat capable. This is the first time I've given the finger to this channel, it's always been extremely informative and interesting. But dont you dare tell me we conducted proper and accurate research and assessments on the Vietnamese. Every piece of ground we took was for nothing. Every hill, for nothing. Every pilot lost, bridge bombed, for nothing. Every patrol, life taken, lives lost - for nothing. We lost. The South Vietnamese "leaders" took their stolen money and ran. We backed the wrong side.
You think Putin is more capable than Nixon? Nixon did the sino-soviet split, which was way more impressive than anything Putin ever did. “We” “our” stop speaking for us, Putin shill.
Weaponized incompetence and weaponized corruption is the Truth we are never told. Politically motivated, Ideological motivation, and the truth left out is Theological motivation in our attempts to create a Catholic dictatorship. Do you think the South Vietnamese Buddhist gave their all fighting for an essentially Catholic system?
It literally came true. Nicaragua went communist, and tried to turn the rest of Central America communist shortly after the communists took Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
@@RVNSaigon Absolutely! Dominoes fell. Not the dominoes we thought would fall, but they fell nonetheless! Assuming your username represents where you’re from, I hope you get your country back soon, friend!
@@ian-Alex-2000 thank you but that is not priority right now. Priority right now is be a thriving successful US citizen and pass knowledge to next generation.
The Communist Domino effect didn't happen to that extent, Nicaragua and majority of South America went how it did due to literal Rightwing dictatorship and corruption. I'm not too fond of the Commies, but yall shot yallselves in the foot by sponsoring dictators and siding with fruit companies.
Thank you for watching! To view more of our films, check out our full collection at www.armyupress.army.mil/Films/Feature-Film-Catalog/
Keep in mind that the vast majority of the ARVN, officers and soldiers, were brand new recruits only under training for ~3-4 years. The defeat, a culmination of communication failure and lack of experience, would have been overcome by a strong officer corps. But the thing is, a strong officer corps takes generations to develop.
I am so glad you're here.
Mới huấn luyện được 3 , 4 năm thôi mà thua các chiến sỹ VC chỉ huấn luyện 3 đến 4 tháng.
@@PhongHoang-nd4leFalse. VC were dead after the Tet Offensive. NVA had much more ammunition than ARVN.
@@ian-Alex-20003 sticks losers can’t fight so stop arguing
@@sidatphan7054NVA can’t fight, they lost to Cambodia in the 80’s. Not tough at all without soviet and chinese backing.
People are already concluding how poorly the ARVN performed and how it was all worthless in the end. Keep in mind that this battle only happened 4 years after the ARVN was had undergone a massive restructuring and expansion in 1959.
I am looking forward to this film!
This film looks absolutely amazing!! Well done!!
I cant wait!
Nice archive footage!
9:05 : Was there any significant effort to help South Vietnam develop a denser road network to help support ARVN operations ? It might also have helped boost the economy and gain more support in the countryside.
Also, since my Vietnamese is extremely rusty, is it possible to get a list of the songs used in the video ?
Yes, the U.S. did help South Vietnam improve its road network. New bridges were built and unpaved roads were, well, paved. However, PLAF did interdict roads--landmines and ambushes--which kept some key rural routes closed for much of the American War. As for your last question, we used recording form a Saigon Government radio broadcast and not individuals tracks.
The economy was entirely based on rubber for exports (I think about 80% of exports?). It would not have helped the economy - there was only so much rubber needed in the world. Also Japan was developing synthetic rubber during this time. And the city economy was basically American aid - tons of TVs, radios, etc. But all supplied by US money.
@@Dayvit78 South Vietnam had a developing economy stagnated by war. To know what could have happened if the U.S. didn't try to help South Vietnam economically is counterfactual.
I know for sure that the end credit song is a wartime recording (I believe 1971) of Ai cho tôi tình yêu - Thanh Thúy
Excellent footage and analyses! Well done!
This felt to short. I'm missing the effects of what the us army had on ARVN when they were deployed. And if anything changes when the generals came into power.
The conclusion I get is that the army failed because of its officer core. Is there going to be an analysis of Afghanistan to? Or is this to recent?
Its not a full scale documentary or analysis. It shows what training foreign military entails and what challenges it faces. Its an interesting example because it proved so misguided and unsuccesful in the end.
ARVN problem was poor leadership and politicians! Arvn was just as capable in combat as NVA/VC there was no difference in them. However, political meddling, corruption, and poor leadership destroyed that. US should've taken full control of ARVN in 55 and not relinquished that control without withholding support! Colonel David Hackworth wrote about this in "ABOUT FACE "! peace
Wrong , arvn soldier are mix quality , there really good division that can rival any nva division aka the airbone , marine , ranger ,.. then there more shitty division form by mostly drafty
@@jerryle379 Draftees can perform on battlefield if well lead. Corruption and poor leadership never allowed for them to become competent units!
They only lost because of low ammunition and supplies. They were given 60 bullets a day after the USA left.
@@TranHungDao. US Congress also reduced and then cut off aid. All for nothing..sad!
@@guyring8912 Yeah, there was one Arvn battalion who was known to be corrupt, they ruined it for the whole arvn. Most of Arvn were not corrupt, most of the ARVN was defending an invasion. The ARVN never left a man behind, there was a story about this USA soldier who was a football player that got stuck in one of the holes. Instead of retreating, ARVN stood by him and fought off the Viet Cong and NVA. No one ever talks about the courage of the ARVN, they literally fought til the end.
So if ARVN had Better leadership, we Could've won the battle of AP Bac, it would become a tactical and strategic victory for the South and the US, After this when Ngo Dinh Diem is assassinated, the south would Deploy ARVN to protect the DMZ and Hue, while US troops conduct Combine Action program(But not search and destroy) and incursions into Laos and Cambodia early, the Tiller reform and Vietnamization happen Early, The South would've stand a chance or be more stronger than the North, keep in mind although the Tet offensive did lower hopes of winning, it did increase the South's determination and fear over the Communist, more strategic and tactical victories would increase morale, determination and hope and support. And if the US invaded and took dong hoi and Half of Quang binh, the North's determination would increase but at what cost, South became more stable(So did Khmer republic and Kingdom of Laos) and stronger, and gained more support.
Be that as it may, it seems odd that the NVA didn't have corruption issues of its own. Was perhaps the way the two sides dealt with, or didn't deal with corruption, a contributing factor to the failure of the American Efforts? This failure to address Civil-Military Corruption within a FID mission seems to be an ongoing thing with the Army. To my mind, as both an ex-infantry and ex-civil-affairs solder, running down and then addressing this corruption is THE MISSION for Civil Affairs in a FID mission! There is no way the Army is going to succeed in future FID missions with Civil Affairs Subordinate to JSOC. Civil Affairs needs its own 4-star command and its own permanent G/S Shop on staff!
the PAVN was politically motivated so while they almost certainly had problems with corruption, suffering it to such a level it impacted operations would have been something the north vietnamese government would've fought against, specially with the battlefield pressures the americans gave.
Whatever corruption issues the NVA had, they likely covered them up.
The PAVN made a point about it. There's a pretty famous case of a Colonel who was trying to sell part of the cloth assigned to making ponchos for the PAVN and NLF. He got the squad, and tried to get a pardon from then-president Ho Chi Minh. Ho Chi MInh's response was something along the lines of "to heal a rotting tree, you must first get rid of the parasites".
Vietnam punishes the corrupt with the squad even today.
The PAVN made a point about it. There's a pretty famous case of a Colonel who was trying to sell part of the cloth assigned to making ponchos for the PAVN and NLF. He got the squad, and tried to get a pardon from then-president Ho Chi Minh. Ho Chi MInh's response was something along the lines of "to heal a rotting tree, you must first get rid of the parasites".
Vietnam punishes the corrupt with the squad even today.
❤❤❤
Lt. Colonel John Paul Vann was the U.S. advisor for Colonel Cao ARVN. Vann had came up with the plan to attack a VC battalion discovered outside Ap Bac, Cao and his subordinates stalled and balked and ruined the entire plan of attack and the VC killed numerous ARVN and CIDF forces and shot several helicopters down and failed miserably.
Colonel Cao maybe sympathised with VC reason VC same colour like him.
From what I've read Col. Cao initially didn't want to attack a prepared enemy position ala Charge of the Light Brigades which he was proven right.
After this incident it is amazing that LTC Van continued to try to change the behavior of the ARVN. At some point in time he found out Pres Diem did not want casualties. Puzzling two groups of people one will die for their country (NVN), the other will evade combat. I was drafted in 1968 in Army, I did not go to Vietnam, I did everything I could to evade going because the way the War was fought did not make sense to me. Made my blood boil to think of how much US TAXPAYER $$$ WERE SQUANDERED IN PURSUIT OF SOMEBODIES PIPEDREAM. No accountablility. As one English newspaper commented on the American Revolutionary War "the King squandered the National Treasury in pursuit of his personal ambition."
@@pakers2128 LTC. Vann was a fool and a sexual predator and JFK's Ambassador appointee to the Republic of Vietnam and the CIA are conniving and murderous fools for instigating the successful coup against Diem.
The major reason that caused the ARVN to collapse is Bolero (Spanish music) that music is just too good it caused soldiers to lost morale significantly to the point of desertion
In Ap Bac the ARVN commanders refuse follow the guidance of the American advisor flight about the battlefield because they "don't take orders from Americans". The paratroopers land in the Vietcong line of fire because their command don't accept the American advisor instruction for landing behind Vietcong lines.
If an ARVF commander lost many soldiers, he lost their face, can lost his command, his career - Dien want fight a war without causalities. In the end ARVN commanders lost the battle, lost many soldier and lost their faces.
lost their job, demoted, therefore got less $$$ from the corruption payoff that were allocated by the top ARVN generals. Economic incentive.
"They fought and they fought hard" Yeah, right.
The 1975 Spring Offensive is supposed to end in summer 1976. The PAVN expected the ARVN to collapse in 18 months from the beginning of the operation, and it only took them 4.
Only happy memories remain behind the corruption that undermined the might of the ARVN
Go owl kante far owl group posason pablek polte dea maseg baeras kora may owl kante posason Monte bagladas poles moela Ashraf ahbeb ahloden salam jone Rab rme debe farsabes owl group cat Joan oief Komela repon faem sadea sota pake jadotona kora far go sotapor far log ahera me hoday cat
Clearly none of these "assessments" occurred in Vietnam. The ARVN had a FEW crack units, but was dominated by jaw-dropping corruption, incompetence, low or no morale, poor or no training/equipment, and outright laughable leadership in both the United States and South Vietnamese governments.
Our armed forces were forced to fight for a losing cause by weak, timid, dishonest, and incompetent leaders (Lynden Johnson, Nixon, Robert McNamara, etc) who make even Putin and his sycophants look somewhat capable.
This is the first time I've given the finger to this channel, it's always been extremely informative and interesting. But dont you dare tell me we conducted proper and accurate research and assessments on the Vietnamese.
Every piece of ground we took was for nothing. Every hill, for nothing. Every pilot lost, bridge bombed, for nothing. Every patrol, life taken, lives lost - for nothing.
We lost. The South Vietnamese "leaders" took their stolen money and ran.
We backed the wrong side.
You think Putin is more capable than Nixon? Nixon did the sino-soviet split, which was way more impressive than anything Putin ever did. “We” “our” stop speaking for us, Putin shill.
Nixon was a much better leader than Putin. “we” “our” stop speaking for us, Kremlin bot.
Nixon was a much better leader than Putin. “we” “our” stop speaking for us, Kremlin bot.
Nixon was a much better leader than Putin. “we” “our” stop speaking for us, Kremlin bot.
Nixon was a much better leader than Putin. “we” “our” stop speaking for us, Kremlin bot.
Weaponized incompetence and weaponized corruption is the Truth we are never told. Politically motivated, Ideological motivation, and the truth left out is Theological motivation in our attempts to create a Catholic dictatorship. Do you think the South Vietnamese Buddhist gave their all fighting for an essentially Catholic system?
The whitewash continues. Another Bright, Shining Lie!
Nothing like old fashioned cold war public relations propaganda. The first sentences gave it away immediately. 😂
Communist Domino Effect is just Kissinger's Hallucination...
It literally came true. Nicaragua went communist, and tried to turn the rest of Central America communist shortly after the communists took Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
@@ian-Alex-2000 just not the way the US imagine Domino Effect but true.
@@RVNSaigon Absolutely! Dominoes fell. Not the dominoes we thought would fall, but they fell nonetheless! Assuming your username represents where you’re from, I hope you get your country back soon, friend!
@@ian-Alex-2000 thank you but that is not priority right now. Priority right now is be a thriving successful US citizen and pass knowledge to next generation.
The Communist Domino effect didn't happen to that extent, Nicaragua and majority of South America went how it did due to literal Rightwing dictatorship and corruption. I'm not too fond of the Commies, but yall shot yallselves in the foot by sponsoring dictators and siding with fruit companies.