I would watch tech videos in that style where older products are featured, explaining the history, success/failures, and public discussions regarding the quirks or problems people experienced
Why? Its not like it needs that much for like, 95% of its performance range. I wouldve understood if it was required for it to perform normally, but this isnt the case. I dont see why it would've been better for them to set an arbitrary limit if the CPU can handle it.
That's the thing, it's kinda not fair to test this cooler with modern CPUs. 2009 was what, Phenom II - Core 2 Quad, the most power-hungry CPU would dump about 140W, so this cooler would do it's job just fine, average CPU was around 45-95W. If you look on TEC power efficiency vs temp curve, I think it could actually do some work when used with not so crazy power-hungry chip.
Qualcomm buying NUVIA for $1.4B and already doing presentations of coming products like Snapdragon X Elite (12cores). Which will be a very power/performance competitive product vs the Apple M3, Intel & AMD better watch out with their 300W slurping desktop CPUs.
And the worst part is almost if not no off-the-shelf cooler exists that are officially rated to dissipate 300w of power consistently like that except maybe some AIOs like the Liquid Freezer II 420mm. Otherwise if you wanna run it at redline with no power limit and keep it there, you're gonna have to go custom liquid loop.
Your videos showing unique coolers from the past are amazing. Late 00's was the time of total craziness in CPU coolers design and it's amazing thing to show and test today. This one was pretty sophisticated, but mentioned time was all about trying hard to be different even if it was only shape of the heatsinks like e.g. Scythe used to love with e.g. Grand Kama Cross or Orochi. Until you tested it, you couldn't know if it's some highly advanced engineering or just some freak show, so they were always starting with being impressive : )
not all old cooler desings are bad, I'm still using my thermalright ultra-120 extreme (TRUE) from 2007 on my Ryzen 5800X. It was like the first large tower cooler that did everything right, a lot of heatpipes and a lot of surface area, still works well today
@@chainsawfreak I didn't say old coolers are bad. I would even say that's not much has progressed for all of these years, especially if we talk about bigger, perfrormant coolers - newest best compared to 10+ years best will shave you 5-10C when noise-normalized, so amount not making much difference for (normal people and) processors mostly being fine with operating up to 100C. And this progress mostly comes from newer fans which are also thing which changed the most for all of these years: now they tend to have way lower minimum speeds, quiter bearings and motors or fight vibrations better. Anybody interested in topic check HWCooling Gigantic retrotest of 80 CPU coolers (2005-2015) with D15 being here link to present.
Would've loved to see what happens when you simply remove the TEC and screw the mounting plates directly against one another, might give you slightly better results?
I had that monstrosity back in the day, removing the TEC helped alittle. TECs act as an insulator when they aren't cooled enough, so you were effectively losing an entire fin stack because of bad design
I wpiluld imagine some indium foil or a gallium alloy would be a fantastic interface to test that. TECs are essentially insulators, so it very well could improve the performance.
Bryan from Tech Yes City just had a PC with a V8. It was all cross threaded and he couldn't get the cooler off. Thermals were fine with it so he left the cooler on without replacing the thermal paste.
Roman, there is no such thing as negative feedback. It was all about the novelty and getting your name into more people's mouth. And it worked it's job
It's probably regulating the voltage to only 7v since the temp sensor is not warm. Also would be interesting if you had swapped the TEC for a higher current one, to see if it had done anything, probably not though, TECs are really useless. 😅
Back in the day I had a friend that had one of these. I was so jellous. I kept trying to design how I would implement a TEC for an EPIC build. Now that I am an engineer and can run the numbers, it's clear how impotent TECs are for moving lots of energy. I am no longer jellous.
Pretty wild design on the V10! Might add some support on that wing it has. I love your commitment and milling out brackets for the old cooler. Amazing what we can do with the proper tools
TEC can transfer very limited amount of heat - and here we are way beyond that. Fortunately, heat transfer curves are available in the datasheets. 12706 TEC that you selected - is among the weakest in the 127 line. But even 12715 - can only transfer ~70W with decent deltaT of ~30°C. So to cool 14900 one would need 4x 12715 TEC, and run them at combined current of at least 50-60A (that's 720W of extra heat!!!). This is definitely doable, but not in this arrangement. With dual water loop probably... This original product could have worked with low-power CPU's of the past, consuming some 10-20-30W of power, not more. There it could have cooled below ambient.
@@WouterVerbruggen I would say there are very few factories making these, so not more than 20% performance difference... All Chinese samples I've dealt with worked ok, and any deviations were within expectations. High volume automated production allows one to delivery consistent results.
The manufacturer rated it at "200W+" and he replaced the original 70W TEC with a 72W (6A @ 12V) TEC. The goal was to test what it might have been able to do from the factory before aging and controller failure so a 12715 would have been inapproproriate (but could have been tested as a follow on, not that I expect a single one to do much). The sad thing is that this thing probably HAS enough surface area to at least match the modern cololer but significant fractions of it is only connected to the TEC. So they could have made it cheaper and better by dropping the TEC and extending the heatpipes directly into that area too. If that's not an epic failure I don't know what is.
The temperature sensor is there so the tec is not at 100% while the cpu is idle in order to avoid condensation, whennyou measured 20w on the tec you had the temperature sensor on the air, so kt was probably not pumping more so it does not make/freeze condensation.
appreciate the dedication to took it apart and repaired it. Most reviews would end with "welp, that's that" and leave us with nothing, or pretending that all is fine. The fact that you tried to repair the controller, and even ordered a replacement tec is very good.
Love seeing these videos looking at older bits of kit! Most of this stuff came out when I was too young to afford any of it. Now I'm an Electrical Engineer and love looking back at the old-school stuff and how they did things.
The concept did work once upon a time...a LONG time ago. I once built a machine with the legendary Celeron 300A. I had a cooler with a TEC on the heat synch for that. It was able to hit an insane overclock at the time of 550, stay chilly and stable. Unfortunately the utility ended there, beyond that processor TEC just doesn't do much of anything.
You can still get similar overclocks out of an Alderlake Celeron, and a TEC is perfect for it, such as the Intel Cryo Coolers. Where the concept falls apart is if you want lots of cores on a single chip
Imagine if they'd made a W16 model! Oddly Brian (Yes Tech City) was having a nightmare with the smaller V8 this week, with rounded off mounting screws on a FX build.
@@LawrenceTimme Long time, how you doing. I take it you're as happy as me with this current gen of hardware, a hard pass lol. I sold my 6900XT and just running at RX 6700 in my daily for the min, efficient running with an undervolt.
I needed a Cooler for my Z79 Sabertooth board that had a backplate. I had everything assembled and realized this, so I went to the local PC shop. They had a V10 and V8 that would work. The V10 looked impressive but even I was worried how it would fit and hang off the motherboad in my HAF 932 case. In the end I went with the V8 and that setup is still going strong playing all my modern-retro games. Just in case, I have another V8 in the box. The HAF cases and V8 coolers were quite the home run back then for HEDT. Funnily enough, I used an old CoolerMaster PSU, Antec case fan and TEC to build my mom a wine chiller fridge, with a thermo controller to keep things chilled to 10C. That's what a TEC of that size is good for :)
I used to have a V10 and if memory serves the thermostat for the TEC is set such that it only powers up fully when it senses 70 degrees celsius, which will throw off attempts at measuring it without putting a load on the cpu first. It also means that even on lower power cpus it would never have them running particularly cold as that would be a huge waste of electricity for not much tangible gain.
Man I had that cooler attached into my first true high end pc in the x58 platform ,that cooler served me well for 11 years. It was loud but also the cpus wasn't drawing so many watts plus I had an overclocked Xeon into that machine.
It did a lot!! It meant that coolermaster had an 'also ran' product so that they were at least thought of by customers who were excited about peltier coolers. You're absolutely right that there wasn't any/much benefit to customers, but this product did exactly what it was supposed to. It's just that what it accomplished were entirely benefits for coolermaster. The same is true for a lot of products available today. In fact, if we can go by history, this approach is probably more endemic and more covert.
I remember selling this V10 cooler. We didn't think all that much of it, but water cooling was very exotic at the time, almost no one did that. The Core2duo 45nm of the time used 45w TDP, so this TEC was not as under sized as it may seem today. There was a V8 version that didn't have the TEC and was actually decent value. Still I think the Thermaltake 120mm tower cooler or Zalman copper ORB cooler was the go to option of the day. The Zalman came with a manual fan controller, which was an awesome feature in the age before motherboards had full feature fan speed management.
I remember these coolers, people used to hype them up all the time. When it comes to super interesting coolers there was also the Scythe Orochi, it was a giant passive / semi passive cooler. I kinda wish Scythe brings it back now that silent cool builds are more popular than ever and it would compare w/ the Noctua NH-P1.
To keep it less vague, a TEC can either transfer it's rated power at no temperature difference, transfer no power at it's maximum temperature difference, or in practise something in between that. So to relate that to what Roman said, if this 70 W TEC at a max dT of, let's say, 50 C, then in some practical usecase you could tranfer that 35 W of heat with some usable temperature difference of some 10's of C between the sides. And on top of that you need to get rid of the power the TEC itself uses, which is typically 2-3 times the transfered power.
had this cooler when it came out and i went through all the same thinking you did. cause i noticed it wasnt working well then i upgraded the tec and plugged it straight in to molex. still nothing changed... love the design cause it went great in my og haf case but disapointed the tec didnt do much. but this did get me to go down the tec rabbit hole. which was fun to mess with.
Back in 2010 I built a PC using this cooler, damn that cooler was huge! The components I used back then was: -AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition -ASUS Crosshair IV Formula, Socket-AM3 -Corsair Dominator DHX+ DDR3 1333MHz 8GB (x2) -XFX Radeon HD 5970 2GB GDDR5 (x2 in crossfire) -Silverstone Strider ST1500, 1500W PSU -Cooler Master V10 CPU-cooler -Silverstone Fortress II Midi Tower (black) -Corsair SSD Force Series F120, 120GB -Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB
Those aren't air coolers. There's moving liquid inside it. Those are vapor coolers. Air coolers are blocks of copper or aluminum. It's also a Peltier Chip/Module (pelt-e-aye) doing work, not "Tech". If the CPU isn't hot, the peltier doesn't reverse polarity and start cooling the radiator. It'll still chill the CPU until there's condensation. But being a vapor cooler, and not an air cooler, the heat exchange process stops once the liquid reaches room temperature. Kind of a beneficial side effect of vapor cooling. Peltier chips in concept would work just as well as a refrigerant heat exchange setup would. Just far less energy efficient while being more compact. They make mini and vehicle refrigerators with them. My guess here is you have a bad unit, and all of them were probably poorly designed. Razer recently made a peltier cooler for phones. The problem is poor design, and my example died in a week. It was strong enough to build condensation in a 20% humidity environment. But the controller isn't sophisticated enough to shut it off once it reaches a target temp. The further both sides are divided in temperature, the more current it draws, until the chip breaks itself. The V-10 was probably a great cooler on concept, but CoolerMaster wasn't willing to make a controller that would last, doubling the price of the product. If I were to design a peltier cooler, I would make a U-shape of heat pipes connected to the CPU with 2 peltier modules attached at the ends an inch or two away. Then connect the hot sides of the peltiers to either water cooling, or vapor cooling. The controller would have to be very robust, capable of handling 300 watts, and a thermostat to shut them off once they drop below 40C. You could mount it directly to the CPU, but adding heat pipes increases the surface area.
These were probably sold, when those big towers were sold. But in standard cases, this would be a problem? Any way, this is the first time I see this massive cooler, great video Roman :)
I bought this for my Q6600 (if I recall correctly). I had to modify the 5.25" drive cage so this could fit. It was a pretty big problem for my.. I want to say Antec 900? Or maybe it was a different case. Man, 14 years ago...
@@Those_Weirdos Not so long ago, I put a 360 rad in a mid tower, and I had to demolish 2 x 5.25 bays as well 😅 so this problem still exist. But who uses 5.25 anyway these days? Not me, for sure.
WOW!!! I have a V10!!!! My old computer was giving me problems so I built a new machine in June of '09 and this is the cooler I chose for it. I never benchmarked it, but my computer never had any cooling problems. I got a few photos of the machine right after I assembled it and first turned it on. I have to admit, it looked GOOD!!!! Nowadays I choose my cooler based on how well it tests. With all that metal, I think if you got rid of the TEC and maybe the shroud and just had the radiator unit and fans (upgraded fans?) you might have an improvement.
I got this cooling fan for $22 on the secondary market. I understand now that its real thermal power is 220 watts. I like. Thanks for your research. Like+
Great video Roman, I remember the CM v10 1st time round and thought gimmick, any chance you can test one of the gigabyte 3D copper cooler ultra coolers that gave the centrifugal fan???
In my experience, TECs are the business if you want to pump heat _uphill_ - e.g. cooling a camera sensor to well below ambient temperature. In CPU heatsink applications, it seems like they are often/always going to end up trying to pump heat _downhill_ and it also seems like they are pretty damn faily at doing that 🙂 (even before the controllers fail!). Heatpipes are awfully good at transferring heat downhill...
I owned one back in the days, after some personal testing I had the same results. So, I modded it with a copper plate between the pipes, and it performed a little better.
I still have its lesser brother the MK1 V8 which ran a Vishera cpu and barely broke a sweat even under heavy load like Forza Horizon 3 and 4. When I had just the stock cooler that came with the Vishera 8 core, it was a problem to stop thermal shutdown under load but the V8 just threw off the heat with a shovel. Its funny that after watching your video on the CM flower cooler with the mega sized heat pipe, I like yourself didn't get that good a performance so I lapped to a mirror shine the foot of the baseplate and replaced thermal paste with phase changing thermal material and now its performing superbly, even at max load on my Ryzen 5 it rarely crosses the 50 degrees mark.
back in the day these type of cooler was a holy grail for me ... i mean by today standarts its not working ... but marketing and beliving made all the difference
I had one of these back in the day. Exact thing happened to my tac with the burnt connector. Haven't brought anything coolermaster since and I replaced the cooler pretty quickly as well.
It would 100% be better because the TEC is actually producing heat. There was a small improvement with the new TEC only because the third fin stack wasn't being used without it. Unless you specifically need to cool something below ambient TECs make 0 sense and unless machine/device size or complexity is an issue it makes far more sense to use any of the various phase change heat exchanges like an AC unit.
@@dragon411320 Since the CPU he was using is thermal throttling there wouldn't be any temp improvement, but there would be a decent power draw increase (less throttling). If we assume that fin stack on the TEC side is 1/3 of the overall thermal capacity of the cooler, then the improvement would be 50% plus whatever amount of heat the TEC is producing minus the heat transfer limit of cold plates and heat pipes. Hazarding a guess I would say 40-50w CPU power draw increase removing the TEC.
@@Sgt_SealCluber yea course with this chip (and other such very high draw ones) just funny to think this came about and was engineered for very first gen i7s that were 125w high-end? even with that extra hypothetical capacity of the third stack I bet it would still be of little to no difference vs the trusty old D-15, or heck given generational improvements a new hyper 212 would probably give it a run for its money on a more mild chip (say a 7700k), just funny to think about all the marketing wank that went into it
I remember this monstrosity. I had thought about going with this one for my LGA1366 i7 920 build back in '09-'10, but I ended up going with the trusty old Prolimatech Megahalems (still have it around, a pity it can't be used anymore with newer sockets...).
I actually owned one of these for my X58 build back in the day and remember replacing it with the Prolimatech Megahalems because it fit my case much better. I remember owning the V8 as well and not getting that much more performance out of the V10.
I remember using stacked TECs with heat pipe coolers. Trying to cool a 200w+ TDP CPU with one is crazy, they just can't move that much heat. You would need around 1kw of TECs to move that much heat. I had 2 70w TECs stacked to cool 35w-40w AMD processors. You had to insulate the socket because once it got below the dew point the moisture would accumulate, freeze and short things out. Crazy times back then.
Is there room to flip it around 180 degrees and put the overhang over the VRM section of the motherboard? if so that would have aided cooling of the VRMs back in the days when this came out as VRMs in those days didn't have heatsinks on most motherboards
Could you test it replacing the TECwith a solid copper shim and see if they would've just been better off using all the heatpipes to directly dissipate heat instead trying to throw in a TEC as a gimmick?
I was using a TermalFake Tower 112 all copper and I was looking at the V10, BUT I was sick and tired dealing with a heavy air coolers and got something like H60 from there to fractal design kelvin 120mm, but it was not enough for 9590, so I toke the h60 radiator, tubes, fittings and Monsoon Series Two D5 Premium Dual 5.25" Reservoir and made my fist open loop, I don't miss air cooling.
I don't even remember that one coming out,,lol I remember using TEC back in the day and we had to insulate the board, both sides! With todays coolers, TEC isn't really needed. Speaking of coolers, when will the Mycro Direct-Die for the 1700 be ready?
I remember back at that era seeing a more conventional cooler with a peltier element, or thermoelectric couple. It cost £70 and I could see that it wasn't going to be that good. This was before the era of heatpipes. They have their uses, water distillers use peltier elements to make a condensation plate.
the Peltier transduction system works , but is power is limited .I wave one on a portable cooler that I can connect to 230V or 12V DC,the hot side heat-sink on the outside is cooled by a blower fan , and it manages to keep the drinks/food cold for several hours .however isn't ideal to cool something that generates heat , so l’m not surprised to see that fail . maybe it was enough for a P4 or Core2Duo ...
Man, I remember this cooler. I really wanted 1 so bad but they just wont fit in my case. So I settled with the V8 instead. Works well till today, still havent failed yet.
I had a peltier setup which I used with a Slot A 900 which was a 50w cpu. I it was setup up as a staged system with 2 70w attached to the slot a, then the second stage had 6 70w. Both stages where operating at about 1/3 their capacity so I was roughly getting 2/3 of the potential delta available. Overall I was getting temps at about -35 c at load but I was also burning through about 610w. They only work well if your only a fraction of their potential heat load because the delta vs load is roughly liner.
Hi. Self claimed expert on tecs here. (Im making motorcycle battery with tec as cooling) Getting all its efficiency out of tec is pretty challenging. You either need to go "braindead" and CV/CC throttle the peltier to about 10-20% the actual TEC's rating, because I2R becomes more prominent as you crank up past that. It's basically a tug of war between peltier effect and I2C (and heat transfer). You can also make a control system using tec's current usage and temperature, but this is infitely harder & more expensive, so this kinda stuff (hell, even the forner too) doesnt simply belong in consumer market. Tldr? You need to make your own not-garbage TEC cooler. Peace.
i had the V6/V6GT V8/V8GT and loved everysecond of them (legi just swapped them because the fans failed, and some of them had "custom" fans, always dreamed with the V10
I spent years developing a light fixture that would accept multiple dimmable bulbs and allow programmed fading between the two to simulate sunset for gamers. In time it took I found out Philips would be soon releasing an led bulb that would allow near enough in a readily available mass produced item so instead of using marketing BS to sell my product I chose to just recommend people to buy them as they were honestly better than what I could hope to make. Also had ""cool"" ideas about TECs back in 486 days and stopped pursuit then for the obvious reasons so these always make me face palm.
Peltier elements ("TEC"s) are ALWAYS the WRONG choice for situations where the target does not need to go below ambient temperatures. The TEC just adds MORE heat energy to the system that you need to transport away. It does not "zap" the energy. Peltier elements are used in industrial or medical/biochem applications, when you need to bring someting to below ambient, but it does not produce massive amounts of energy that you can't transport away.
Hello Roman. How about you get ahold of the noctua nhp1 passive cooler. I believe Maybe you already have and made video🙆♂️. Make a comparison against your top paste vs your vertically stacked carbonaut pad on your open bench please
i just amazed on the amount of current density on each power via within the layes of the motherboard let alone the cpu , to handle it, its like 150 amps if for say 2v feed.
Welcome to ForgottenWea... ForgottenCoolers, I am Ian... I mean Roman
I'm not going to lie, that took me way to long to fuigue out l ahhaha
A man of culture
I would watch tech videos in that style where older products are featured, explaining the history, success/failures, and public discussions regarding the quirks or problems people experienced
@@Limanskthere are a lot of channels doing exactly that
Haha
The power draw of current Intel CPUs will never cease to amaze me in a negative way. 300W for a CPU is absolutely ridiculous.
Why? Its not like it needs that much for like, 95% of its performance range. I wouldve understood if it was required for it to perform normally, but this isnt the case. I dont see why it would've been better for them to set an arbitrary limit if the CPU can handle it.
That's the thing, it's kinda not fair to test this cooler with modern CPUs. 2009 was what, Phenom II - Core 2 Quad, the most power-hungry CPU would dump about 140W, so this cooler would do it's job just fine, average CPU was around 45-95W. If you look on TEC power efficiency vs temp curve, I think it could actually do some work when used with not so crazy power-hungry chip.
Qualcomm buying NUVIA for $1.4B and already doing presentations of coming products like Snapdragon X Elite (12cores).
Which will be a very power/performance competitive product vs the Apple M3, Intel & AMD better watch out with their 300W slurping desktop CPUs.
And the worst part is almost if not no off-the-shelf cooler exists that are officially rated to dissipate 300w of power consistently like that except maybe some AIOs like the Liquid Freezer II 420mm. Otherwise if you wanna run it at redline with no power limit and keep it there, you're gonna have to go custom liquid loop.
Yeah, because 250-260 watts of 7950x is SO much better...
Your videos showing unique coolers from the past are amazing. Late 00's was the time of total craziness in CPU coolers design and it's amazing thing to show and test today. This one was pretty sophisticated, but mentioned time was all about trying hard to be different even if it was only shape of the heatsinks like e.g. Scythe used to love with e.g. Grand Kama Cross or Orochi. Until you tested it, you couldn't know if it's some highly advanced engineering or just some freak show, so they were always starting with being impressive : )
not all old cooler desings are bad, I'm still using my thermalright ultra-120 extreme (TRUE) from 2007 on my Ryzen 5800X. It was like the first large tower cooler that did everything right, a lot of heatpipes and a lot of surface area, still works well today
@@chainsawfreak I didn't say old coolers are bad. I would even say that's not much has progressed for all of these years, especially if we talk about bigger, perfrormant coolers - newest best compared to 10+ years best will shave you 5-10C when noise-normalized, so amount not making much difference for (normal people and) processors mostly being fine with operating up to 100C. And this progress mostly comes from newer fans which are also thing which changed the most for all of these years: now they tend to have way lower minimum speeds, quiter bearings and motors or fight vibrations better. Anybody interested in topic check HWCooling Gigantic retrotest of 80 CPU coolers (2005-2015) with D15 being here link to present.
Would've loved to see what happens when you simply remove the TEC and screw the mounting plates directly against one another, might give you slightly better results?
What I thought as well, at most a copper slug there to level it if needed, will increase the heatsink area for sure.
Would definitely give much better results.
I had that monstrosity back in the day, removing the TEC helped alittle. TECs act as an insulator when they aren't cooled enough, so you were effectively losing an entire fin stack because of bad design
I wpiluld imagine some indium foil or a gallium alloy would be a fantastic interface to test that. TECs are essentially insulators, so it very well could improve the performance.
@@TheTrueOSSS wouldn't that be a normal liquid metal air cooling setup then ?
the v8 was my first ever high performance cpu cooler i ever bought, i remember looking at the v10 and just laughing at how ridiculously big it is
I had the V8 as well, but i was lusting over the V10 for some reason :D
Bryan from Tech Yes City just had a PC with a V8. It was all cross threaded and he couldn't get the cooler off. Thermals were fine with it so he left the cooler on without replacing the thermal paste.
Same. I had the V8 with an Amd fx 8120
Ditto.
I still have the V8 on my 09 computer
It now operates as a media server
Ditto. Did anyone out there paint theirs up like a Cylon warrior?
Roman, there is no such thing as negative feedback.
It was all about the novelty and getting your name into more people's mouth. And it worked it's job
It's probably regulating the voltage to only 7v since the temp sensor is not warm. Also would be interesting if you had swapped the TEC for a higher current one, to see if it had done anything, probably not though, TECs are really useless. 😅
They have many good uses, but cooling high power CPUs really isn't one of them.
I made a minifridge with TECs it works great and it's quiet
I2r is a thing (and very becomes a thing with higher current) with TECs.
Back in the day I had a friend that had one of these. I was so jellous. I kept trying to design how I would implement a TEC for an EPIC build. Now that I am an engineer and can run the numbers, it's clear how impotent TECs are for moving lots of energy. I am no longer jellous.
They can move a reasonable amount of energy...if you have a delta T of zero, or close to it. Pretty much useless for CPU cooling.
Pretty wild design on the V10! Might add some support on that wing it has. I love your commitment and milling out brackets for the old cooler. Amazing what we can do with the proper tools
TEC can transfer very limited amount of heat - and here we are way beyond that. Fortunately, heat transfer curves are available in the datasheets. 12706 TEC that you selected - is among the weakest in the 127 line. But even 12715 - can only transfer ~70W with decent deltaT of ~30°C. So to cool 14900 one would need 4x 12715 TEC, and run them at combined current of at least 50-60A (that's 720W of extra heat!!!). This is definitely doable, but not in this arrangement. With dual water loop probably...
This original product could have worked with low-power CPU's of the past, consuming some 10-20-30W of power, not more. There it could have cooled below ambient.
One day someone will do a TEC cooling video where they don't do it entirely wrong.
And that's assuming he got a proper quality TEC. Most "127 line" TECs on the market are worse performing copies
@@WouterVerbruggen I would say there are very few factories making these, so not more than 20% performance difference... All Chinese samples I've dealt with worked ok, and any deviations were within expectations. High volume automated production allows one to delivery consistent results.
The manufacturer rated it at "200W+" and he replaced the original 70W TEC with a 72W (6A @ 12V) TEC. The goal was to test what it might have been able to do from the factory before aging and controller failure so a 12715 would have been inapproproriate (but could have been tested as a follow on, not that I expect a single one to do much). The sad thing is that this thing probably HAS enough surface area to at least match the modern cololer but significant fractions of it is only connected to the TEC.
So they could have made it cheaper and better by dropping the TEC and extending the heatpipes directly into that area too. If that's not an epic failure I don't know what is.
@@Torbjorn.Lindgren Yes, here I agree with you completely on all points.
The temperature sensor is there so the tec is not at 100% while the cpu is idle in order to avoid condensation, whennyou measured 20w on the tec you had the temperature sensor on the air, so kt was probably not pumping more so it does not make/freeze condensation.
appreciate the dedication to took it apart and repaired it. Most reviews would end with "welp, that's that" and leave us with nothing, or pretending that all is fine. The fact that you tried to repair the controller, and even ordered a replacement tec is very good.
Wonderful to have this to play with. Thank you for letting me join in.
Oh whoa I remember this! I had the original V8, which was a lot more reasonable IMO. Always wanted that V10 though
Love seeing these videos looking at older bits of kit! Most of this stuff came out when I was too young to afford any of it. Now I'm an Electrical Engineer and love looking back at the old-school stuff and how they did things.
The concept did work once upon a time...a LONG time ago.
I once built a machine with the legendary Celeron 300A. I had a cooler with a TEC on the heat synch for that. It was able to hit an insane overclock at the time of 550, stay chilly and stable. Unfortunately the utility ended there, beyond that processor TEC just doesn't do much of anything.
You can still get similar overclocks out of an Alderlake Celeron, and a TEC is perfect for it, such as the Intel Cryo Coolers. Where the concept falls apart is if you want lots of cores on a single chip
Why has someone ripped off K9 (from Dr Who) head and tried to use it as a CPU cooler?! 😢🤦♂️
I always enjoy these videos on comparing old tech with new to see what is better.
Imagine if they'd made a W16 model!
Oddly Brian (Yes Tech City) was having a nightmare with the smaller V8 this week, with rounded off mounting screws on a FX build.
Yeah I just watched that too! The cooler master 212 Evo and 612 were great at this time, but the higher end V8 and V10 models clearly don't deliver!
@@LawrenceTimme Long time, how you doing. I take it you're as happy as me with this current gen of hardware, a hard pass lol. I sold my 6900XT and just running at RX 6700 in my daily for the min, efficient running with an undervolt.
@@LawrenceTimme The V8 was generally well recieved back in the day, V10 though...yeah, not so much, lol.
I needed a Cooler for my Z79 Sabertooth board that had a backplate. I had everything assembled and realized this, so I went to the local PC shop. They had a V10 and V8 that would work. The V10 looked impressive but even I was worried how it would fit and hang off the motherboad in my HAF 932 case. In the end I went with the V8 and that setup is still going strong playing all my modern-retro games. Just in case, I have another V8 in the box. The HAF cases and V8 coolers were quite the home run back then for HEDT. Funnily enough, I used an old CoolerMaster PSU, Antec case fan and TEC to build my mom a wine chiller fridge, with a thermo controller to keep things chilled to 10C. That's what a TEC of that size is good for :)
I used to have a V10 and if memory serves the thermostat for the TEC is set such that it only powers up fully when it senses 70 degrees celsius, which will throw off attempts at measuring it without putting a load on the cpu first. It also means that even on lower power cpus it would never have them running particularly cold as that would be a huge waste of electricity for not much tangible gain.
Finally some content on this. I had the V8 back in the day and thought that was BIG
Man I had that cooler attached into my first true high end pc in the x58 platform ,that cooler served me well for 11 years. It was loud but also the cpus wasn't drawing so many watts plus I had an overclocked Xeon into that machine.
It did a lot!! It meant that coolermaster had an 'also ran' product so that they were at least thought of by customers who were excited about peltier coolers. You're absolutely right that there wasn't any/much benefit to customers, but this product did exactly what it was supposed to. It's just that what it accomplished were entirely benefits for coolermaster. The same is true for a lot of products available today. In fact, if we can go by history, this approach is probably more endemic and more covert.
I love these old tech reviews. Keep them coming 👍
I remember selling this V10 cooler. We didn't think all that much of it, but water cooling was very exotic at the time, almost no one did that. The Core2duo 45nm of the time used 45w TDP, so this TEC was not as under sized as it may seem today. There was a V8 version that didn't have the TEC and was actually decent value. Still I think the Thermaltake 120mm tower cooler or Zalman copper ORB cooler was the go to option of the day. The Zalman came with a manual fan controller, which was an awesome feature in the age before motherboards had full feature fan speed management.
Wow that thing has 10 combustion cylinders arranged in a V shape? Amazing!!
these are the best content on pc's nowerdays :D so fun to watch old products reviewd
I remember these coolers, people used to hype them up all the time. When it comes to super interesting coolers there was also the Scythe Orochi, it was a giant passive / semi passive cooler. I kinda wish Scythe brings it back now that silent cool builds are more popular than ever and it would compare w/ the Noctua NH-P1.
G'day Roman, Shiek & Makita,
I am really loving these crazy coolers you are testing
That CoolerMaster cooler, looks like the head of K9 from old Dr.Who series.
To keep it less vague, a TEC can either transfer it's rated power at no temperature difference, transfer no power at it's maximum temperature difference, or in practise something in between that. So to relate that to what Roman said, if this 70 W TEC at a max dT of, let's say, 50 C, then in some practical usecase you could tranfer that 35 W of heat with some usable temperature difference of some 10's of C between the sides. And on top of that you need to get rid of the power the TEC itself uses, which is typically 2-3 times the transfered power.
had this cooler when it came out and i went through all the same thinking you did. cause i noticed it wasnt working well then i upgraded the tec and plugged it straight in to molex. still nothing changed... love the design cause it went great in my og haf case but disapointed the tec didnt do much. but this did get me to go down the tec rabbit hole. which was fun to mess with.
Back in 2010 I built a PC using this cooler, damn that cooler was huge!
The components I used back then was:
-AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition
-ASUS Crosshair IV Formula, Socket-AM3
-Corsair Dominator DHX+ DDR3 1333MHz 8GB (x2)
-XFX Radeon HD 5970 2GB GDDR5 (x2 in crossfire)
-Silverstone Strider ST1500, 1500W PSU
-Cooler Master V10 CPU-cooler
-Silverstone Fortress II Midi Tower (black)
-Corsair SSD Force Series F120, 120GB
-Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB
Those aren't air coolers. There's moving liquid inside it. Those are vapor coolers. Air coolers are blocks of copper or aluminum. It's also a Peltier Chip/Module (pelt-e-aye) doing work, not "Tech". If the CPU isn't hot, the peltier doesn't reverse polarity and start cooling the radiator. It'll still chill the CPU until there's condensation. But being a vapor cooler, and not an air cooler, the heat exchange process stops once the liquid reaches room temperature. Kind of a beneficial side effect of vapor cooling. Peltier chips in concept would work just as well as a refrigerant heat exchange setup would. Just far less energy efficient while being more compact. They make mini and vehicle refrigerators with them. My guess here is you have a bad unit, and all of them were probably poorly designed. Razer recently made a peltier cooler for phones. The problem is poor design, and my example died in a week. It was strong enough to build condensation in a 20% humidity environment. But the controller isn't sophisticated enough to shut it off once it reaches a target temp. The further both sides are divided in temperature, the more current it draws, until the chip breaks itself. The V-10 was probably a great cooler on concept, but CoolerMaster wasn't willing to make a controller that would last, doubling the price of the product. If I were to design a peltier cooler, I would make a U-shape of heat pipes connected to the CPU with 2 peltier modules attached at the ends an inch or two away. Then connect the hot sides of the peltiers to either water cooling, or vapor cooling. The controller would have to be very robust, capable of handling 300 watts, and a thermostat to shut them off once they drop below 40C. You could mount it directly to the CPU, but adding heat pipes increases the surface area.
These were probably sold, when those big towers were sold. But in standard cases, this would be a problem? Any way, this is the first time I see this massive cooler, great video Roman :)
I bought this for my Q6600 (if I recall correctly). I had to modify the 5.25" drive cage so this could fit. It was a pretty big problem for my.. I want to say Antec 900? Or maybe it was a different case.
Man, 14 years ago...
@@Those_Weirdos Not so long ago, I put a 360 rad in a mid tower, and I had to demolish 2 x 5.25 bays as well 😅 so this problem still exist. But who uses 5.25 anyway these days? Not me, for sure.
25° ambient is rough, man. My ambient temp has been down to 15° and I'm loving it. Anything over 20° and I'll start sweating
WOW!!! I have a V10!!!! My old computer was giving me problems so I built a new machine in June of '09 and this is the cooler I chose for it. I never benchmarked it, but my computer never had any cooling problems. I got a few photos of the machine right after I assembled it and first turned it on. I have to admit, it looked GOOD!!!! Nowadays I choose my cooler based on how well it tests. With all that metal, I think if you got rid of the TEC and maybe the shroud and just had the radiator unit and fans (upgraded fans?) you might have an improvement.
Bravo der8auer, your milling adapters never cease to amaze, as good as if not better than stock, looks likt it was always ready for 14th gen.
Started as a Review ... ended up by being a repair ... SO COOL dayum XD I love this so much
Nice reveiw, how about making it work better by increase voltages into TEC. Will that make a different?
I got this cooling fan for $22 on the secondary market. I understand now that its real thermal power is 220 watts. I like. Thanks for your research. Like+
Now i will watch your CM V8 tower vintage review
Great video Roman, I remember the CM v10 1st time round and thought gimmick, any chance you can test one of the gigabyte 3D copper cooler ultra coolers that gave the centrifugal fan???
Oh man. I remember I had the Coolermaster V8 GTS on my shopping list but for whatever reason I didn't end up getting it. I got a Noctua instead.
In my experience, TECs are the business if you want to pump heat _uphill_ - e.g. cooling a camera sensor to well below ambient temperature.
In CPU heatsink applications, it seems like they are often/always going to end up trying to pump heat _downhill_ and it also seems like they are pretty damn faily at doing that 🙂 (even before the controllers fail!). Heatpipes are awfully good at transferring heat downhill...
I had the v8 version for many years over 3 cpu lifespans,,it still works like a charm!
I owned one back in the days, after some personal testing I had the same results. So, I modded it with a copper plate between the pipes, and it performed a little better.
I really enjoy these kinds of videos, ty
You know what I thought was funny? That it took me until last night to realized what DerBauer meant... And I even speak and read German. Mensch!! Lol
Whew, your camera made me think I had a stuck pixel on my OLED monitor, that would not have been a good day!
I still have its lesser brother the MK1 V8 which ran a Vishera cpu and barely broke a sweat even under heavy load like Forza Horizon 3 and 4. When I had just the stock cooler that came with the Vishera 8 core, it was a problem to stop thermal shutdown under load but the V8 just threw off the heat with a shovel. Its funny that after watching your video on the CM flower cooler with the mega sized heat pipe, I like yourself didn't get that good a performance so I lapped to a mirror shine the foot of the baseplate and replaced thermal paste with phase changing thermal material and now its performing superbly, even at max load on my Ryzen 5 it rarely crosses the 50 degrees mark.
It is better to call the "tech" by its name, Peltier cooling element. "Tech" can mean so much.
Isn't that the head of Doctor Who's robodoggie K9?
I thought the exact same thing.
Can’t unsee that now!
That was my first thought when I saw the thumbnail and the only reason I clicked on to the video, haha
back in the day these type of cooler was a holy grail for me ... i mean by today standarts its not working ... but marketing and beliving made all the difference
I had one of these back in the day. Exact thing happened to my tac with the burnt connector. Haven't brought anything coolermaster since and I replaced the cooler pretty quickly as well.
Make a follow up video where you improve on this concept to see if it’s viable. The V12 !!
great video thy for testing old tech its very interesting.
Ahaha I used to own one of these, absolutely blown away to see it again :-D
How good is it at cooling when you remove the peltier module and screw the other half directly onto the cooler?
The design was crazy!
13:58 yessss this is what i want in a video!
Now i wonder, what performance you would get if you delete the TEC and just have the TEC heatsink connected to the rest of the heatsink
my thoughts exactly, I've never seen a triple-tower cooler before.... er, guess two towers and a platform in this layout
It would 100% be better because the TEC is actually producing heat. There was a small improvement with the new TEC only because the third fin stack wasn't being used without it. Unless you specifically need to cool something below ambient TECs make 0 sense and unless machine/device size or complexity is an issue it makes far more sense to use any of the various phase change heat exchanges like an AC unit.
@@Sgt_SealCluber course some improvement, just a matter of would it be a "meaningful" improvement is the real curious part.. 2 degrees, 5, 10?
@@dragon411320 Since the CPU he was using is thermal throttling there wouldn't be any temp improvement, but there would be a decent power draw increase (less throttling).
If we assume that fin stack on the TEC side is 1/3 of the overall thermal capacity of the cooler, then the improvement would be 50% plus whatever amount of heat the TEC is producing minus the heat transfer limit of cold plates and heat pipes.
Hazarding a guess I would say 40-50w CPU power draw increase removing the TEC.
@@Sgt_SealCluber yea course with this chip (and other such very high draw ones) just funny to think this came about and was engineered for very first gen i7s that were 125w high-end? even with that extra hypothetical capacity of the third stack I bet it would still be of little to no difference vs the trusty old D-15, or heck given generational improvements a new hyper 212 would probably give it a run for its money on a more mild chip (say a 7700k), just funny to think about all the marketing wank that went into it
I remember this monstrosity. I had thought about going with this one for my LGA1366 i7 920 build back in '09-'10, but I ended up going with the trusty old Prolimatech Megahalems (still have it around, a pity it can't be used anymore with newer sockets...).
perhaps you could get someone to make a bracket like der8auer made for the v10
That's a beast of a cooler to become useless just because it cant be held down
I actually owned one of these for my X58 build back in the day and remember replacing it with the Prolimatech Megahalems because it fit my case much better. I remember owning the V8 as well and not getting that much more performance out of the V10.
I remember when this came out, 🤦♂️ I’m getting old
I remember using stacked TECs with heat pipe coolers. Trying to cool a 200w+ TDP CPU with one is crazy, they just can't move that much heat. You would need around 1kw of TECs to move that much heat. I had 2 70w TECs stacked to cool 35w-40w AMD processors. You had to insulate the socket because once it got below the dew point the moisture would accumulate, freeze and short things out. Crazy times back then.
Is there room to flip it around 180 degrees and put the overhang over the VRM section of the motherboard? if so that would have aided cooling of the VRMs back in the days when this came out as VRMs in those days didn't have heatsinks on most motherboards
Could you test it replacing the TECwith a solid copper shim and see if they would've just been better off using all the heatpipes to directly dissipate heat instead trying to throw in a TEC as a gimmick?
Dead pixel top left in your camera had me checking if my screen was dirty lol
I was using a TermalFake Tower 112 all copper and I was looking at the V10, BUT I was sick and tired dealing with a heavy air coolers
and got something like H60 from there to fractal design kelvin 120mm, but it was not enough for 9590, so I toke the h60 radiator,
tubes, fittings and Monsoon Series Two D5 Premium Dual 5.25" Reservoir and made my fist open loop,
I don't miss air cooling.
I don't even remember that one coming out,,lol I remember using TEC back in the day and we had to insulate the board, both sides! With todays coolers, TEC isn't really needed. Speaking of coolers, when will the Mycro Direct-Die for the 1700 be ready?
Most impressive 15yr old cooler yet tho! Love this series of old tech
the new center fan mount for the pro 5 is so much better than on my pro 4
I was a fan of those coolers from CM, the V8 and V12 looke awesome!
Hi,
I also have a V10 and just ordered a 40x40x3mm copper block to replace the Tec.
Can you try it on your Intel Cpu to see how good it gets?
I remember back at that era seeing a more conventional cooler with a peltier element, or thermoelectric couple. It cost £70 and I could see that it wasn't going to be that good. This was before the era of heatpipes.
They have their uses, water distillers use peltier elements to make a condensation plate.
i remember this thing! i wanted one so badly. shame to see it didnt live up to the hype (or pricetag) at the time
the Peltier transduction system works , but is power is limited .I wave one on a portable cooler that I can connect to 230V or 12V DC,the hot side heat-sink on the outside is cooled by a blower fan , and it manages to keep the drinks/food cold for several hours .however isn't ideal to cool something that generates heat , so l’m not surprised to see that fail . maybe it was enough for a P4 or Core2Duo ...
Man, I remember this cooler. I really wanted 1 so bad but they just wont fit in my case. So I settled with the V8 instead. Works well till today, still havent failed yet.
I have a 12726 TEC here. 400 W according to the specs.
I had a peltier setup which I used with a Slot A 900 which was a 50w cpu. I it was setup up as a staged system with 2 70w attached to the slot a, then the second stage had 6 70w. Both stages where operating at about 1/3 their capacity so I was roughly getting 2/3 of the potential delta available. Overall I was getting temps at about -35 c at load but I was also burning through about 610w. They only work well if your only a fraction of their potential heat load because the delta vs load is roughly liner.
I used this V10 cooler back in the day with my 2600k before I switched to a AIO. The TEC doesn't kick in till it hits a certain temperature.
Hi. Self claimed expert on tecs here. (Im making motorcycle battery with tec as cooling)
Getting all its efficiency out of tec is pretty challenging. You either need to go "braindead" and CV/CC throttle the peltier to about 10-20% the actual TEC's rating, because I2R becomes more prominent as you crank up past that. It's basically a tug of war between peltier effect and I2C (and heat transfer). You can also make a control system using tec's current usage and temperature, but this is infitely harder & more expensive, so this kinda stuff (hell, even the forner too) doesnt simply belong in consumer market.
Tldr? You need to make your own not-garbage TEC cooler.
Peace.
Ngl I wish they'd bring back these fun wacky designs.
brasil aqui mano, seus videos e top acompanho sempre tmj meu amigo.
i had the V6/V6GT V8/V8GT and loved everysecond of them (legi just swapped them because the fans failed, and some of them had "custom" fans, always dreamed with the V10
isnt the tec more efficent at lower voltage? and running at 12v is the worst?
I spent years developing a light fixture that would accept multiple dimmable bulbs and allow programmed fading between the two to simulate sunset for gamers. In time it took I found out Philips would be soon releasing an led bulb that would allow near enough in a readily available mass produced item so instead of using marketing BS to sell my product I chose to just recommend people to buy them as they were honestly better than what I could hope to make. Also had ""cool"" ideas about TECs back in 486 days and stopped pursuit then for the obvious reasons so these always make me face palm.
The heatsink design really reminds me of the prolimatech genesis, it too used a vertical and horizontal heatsink.
Hello, will you release a video testing the EKWB direct die with the 14900k at 6ghz, greetings 😮
Excellent review.
Is that the gate address from here to PB5-926 on your arm? Interesting thing to get tattooed :3
Peltier elements ("TEC"s) are ALWAYS the WRONG choice for situations where the target does not need to go below ambient temperatures. The TEC just adds MORE heat energy to the system that you need to transport away. It does not "zap" the energy. Peltier elements are used in industrial or medical/biochem applications, when you need to bring someting to below ambient, but it does not produce massive amounts of energy that you can't transport away.
I have two V10, a V6Gt, and V8, where can I find mounting kits for those to use it on LGA 1700?
Thank you. That was cool.
What would happen if you connected the secondary heatsink directly to the heatpipes? WIthout the TEC in the middle.
Hello Roman.
How about you get ahold of the noctua nhp1 passive cooler. I believe Maybe you already have and made video🙆♂️.
Make a comparison against your top paste vs your vertically stacked carbonaut pad on your open bench please
i just amazed on the amount of current density on each power via within the layes of the motherboard let alone the cpu , to handle it, its like 150 amps if for say 2v feed.
I would take the fan on the front of the dark pro off myself, excellent video btw