Sugden A21 Pure class A amplifier ,How good is it ?
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- here I review Sugden signature A21 pure class a amplifier.
Using various speakers plus Thorens 150 deck with SME arm and ortophon blue cartridge.
audiogold.co.uk/.
patreon.com/StereoreviewX
Good review. I have been inside Sugden Audio manufacturing and seen their products being made and had time in their listening room. They even repair any sugden amplifier right back to the 60’s. A superb place. One thing , This Yorkshire town is not pronounced Heckmondwick as in candle wick. It’s Heckmondwike as in bike .
My mum made this, love the mention. Thank you
Caroline Williams also made mine !
@@barrykelly2846 Fabulous, I hope you enjoy. I'll let my mum know you commented. Thank you
Who said hifi is a man's world lovely work Caroline
Well I pulled the trigger on the Sugden A21 with inbuilt phono - paired with my Lintons and its magical.. what an amazing and refined class A.. I am totally happy with it.. and Kelvin hit the nail on the head.. its gorgeous .. greetings from Ireland
Are you still happy with it mate? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on it today....
100% happy with it - and it will stay with me for ever - not going anywhere else.. buy once - buy right and I think its ticks all the boxes on quality / price point and of course its hand built ..@@adamlitchfield3371
Good review. I've had my eye on this units for a while now, and thanks for coming clean on your JBL L82 review with updated listening preferences - much appreciated.
Thanks for another interesting and informative video Kelvin. As you point out, there is no doubting the superior audio qualities of well made class A amps. When you say class B though, I think you mean class AB, which combines aspects of class A and class B to create a more power efficient amp (less energy lost to heat) higher power to weight ratio, generally very good sound quality and lower price than pure class A amps, which is why class AB have been the most common and popular type around over the last 60 years. Pure class B amps are a type that are rare, because they don't work as well as class A or class AB.
I have this amp in silver (A21se model), it is everything you say it is. A very detailed, fatigue free, 3d amplifier. I run tannoy eatons with it with no problems, and they sound divine.
Sounds excellent. My choice would would be silver as well.
I am going to try and demo one. I never thought about class A, but got the smsl vmv A1 amp a couple of month ago and that sounds super rich at lower volumes.
That sounds great Tony. Thinking about pulling the trigger. Take a while to find a dealer in the US with inventory.
I don’t know why but i never found any Sansui amps to sound good. They hv a greyish tone, 2 dimensional & are opaque sounding. I have tried a few of the popular models like AU-D9, 5500 & 7700. Any british amp of that era like Cyrus 1 or 2, Creek 4140, Onix 21 or Naims will easily better any Sansui. Having said that, i have always been curious about Sugden. Heard it once against a Densen integrated quite some time back & i think the A21SE sounded far better than the Densen. Far more spacious, 3 dimensional, open & transparent which was surprising for me as i always thought that Class A amps sound lacklustre & bland. I came away with this impression after hearing a couple of Threshold & pass lab amps. To me they all sounded bland & lacklustre. But the A21SE don’t seem to sound this way. So not all Class A amps sound alike.
You said all the right things about it. I couldn’t find the better description for its character. Thank you so much for the video, sir.
For me the Sugden a21 represents the home coming after decades of playing around with inferiour stuff in my journey . Its accomplished now. Im ready to receive my medal of honour, because life has no meaning anymore, and the a21 and me are going to grow really old together :-)
So you like it yeah
Never heard sugden. But have heard good things through the years.
My Plinius SA 102s were around 5000 US a single unit new when i got my pair in 2004 I also bought a P8 200 watt class ab amplifier for my center channel and a Plinius M8 for the stereo portion of my hometheatre as its integrated together.
Plinius SA series is fully featured with a switch for class ab or class A on the front panel.
They can also be used in traditional stereo or true monobloc with a rotary switch on bsck of the unit and can be run in rca single ended or xlr fully ballanced differential .
A very flexible and unique overachiever.
Highly regarded critically.
Today the latest iteration of my Plinius amp is a Plinius Reference A 150 and retails for 15000 US $.
So far better on the used market today a Plinius SA 103 sells used for about 4000.
But I dont like buying used so Ill likely keep these forever.
2 Plinius SA 102s in true fully ballanced dual differential .
in stereo 125 watts pure class A
In mono 400 in 8 ohm 740 in 4 ohm 83 lbs.
Plinius SA 100mk3 at 100 Watts pure class A for surrounds in 5.1
Plinius P8 for center snd Plinius M8 preamplifier.
Plinius...
From New Zealand.
At first I thought your class A amp was on fire but then I noticed the reflection of the lava lamp in the background.
These are simply beautiful in every way
Kelvin another super review, i particularly like how you describe your feelings about what you review and this amp's highlights as well as deficiencies .. keep well and keep on giving us more reviews
You've got a Thorens 150 too! Fantastic turntables - love mine.
Great review Kelvin.
Back in the early 1990s, it was on Sugden's series of class A amps that I've first noticed the noise signature of the germanium clipping diodes of the guitar distortion at the start of Iron Maiden's 2 Minutes to Midnight.
"geranium clippings"
@@simeonbanner6204 😆
You’re out of my league
Having owned sugden musical fidelity and audio innervation class A amps. Back in the late 80.s early 90s all were excellent sounding amplifiers, something about class A and valve amps that is very special.
Agreed. I’ve got an original A21 and with sensitive speakers, it’s fantastic. Also have a Musical Fidelity A1000. 50w of pure class a. Haven’t found anything to better it. Wonderful amp.
@@theoriginaldanalogue I always wanted the musical fidelity A1000 amp. Great piece of kit.
@@avro66 if you ever see one, snap it up. I was looking at a 90’s Sugden and it sounded amazing. But for less money and twice the power the A1000 came along. I took a punt and it paid off. Replaced my Exposure IV regulated and despite its reputation always disappointed me. As soon as the A1000 replaced it, it was if I’ve been listening to music with cotton wool in my ears! The Sugden may have been even more musical but overall the A1000 just sounded amazing.
I also made a mistake on the L82 video. I said the L100 was only a bit more expensive so I would get that one. Well they are priced a piece, not as a set so they are well more than twice as expensive.
Happy Tuesday Kelvin. When you mentioned about the wattage being around 20 watts per channel, most listeners do not realize that a 200 watt amp only gives 10 db more sound pressure than the 20 watt amp when playing through speakers capable of handling 200 or more watts of audio power and a 40 watt amp is only 3 db higher in SPL than a 20 watt amp. Thanks for your reviews and I was enjoying my mono Sgt. Peppers album through my Sansuii 5000X and Kenwood speakers the other day and while I enjoy the stereo mix to that album with all the dazzling effects, I enjoy the mono mix for a more center stage perspective on the tracks. I do remember John Lennon once saying that you have not heard Sgt. Peppers until you heard it in mono from the actual mono album and not just by flipping the mono switch on the stereo mix version. I did ask a while back if you ever review vintage cassette and open reel tape formats in relation to other sound media such as vinyl or digital formats but not sure if you ever got into tape very much in the past? Have a great day and I enjoy your reviews!!...Friends, Lloyd.
Hi Lloyd thanks for that interesting mono story I mean I am intrigued I’ve never really tried it in this proper way as you describe
Yes I’m not mad about cassette deck is I suppose so the lack of enthusiasm prevents me
I do appreciate real to real news but I suppose yes it’s just not my cup of tea as they say
Happy Thursday Kelvin and thanks!! Yes, tape had it's shortcomings with tape noise on less than optimum tape formulas using higher tape speeds, plus the inconvenience of having to fast forward and rewind to find a song or segment on the tape which was a time waster but that is all we had in those pre-digital era days in home recording formats. Yes, I complained even back than about the slow access time on tape recordings when trying to get to a particular song. On British speakers, it would be awesome if you could do a review on the vintage, sand filled cabinet, corner horn systems they made during the 50's and early 60's if still possible to find? They might not be fun to move around with the heavy sand used as resonant frequency damping material within the cabinet construction. If I did not live across the pond in America and I was in your area, I would love to join you in a vintage system listening session!! Have an awesome day and I hope this year for things to at least try getting back to normal and have live music concerts and without the need for masks, except at Halloween time!!...Friends, Lloyd.
Thanks for the review I am seriously thinking of getting one of these amps.👍
I think it's worth paying the extra, knowing it's made in the UK and you are getting a product you could pass on and last a lifetime.
kelvin, l home auditioned to buy the Sugden 21about ten years ago. I couldn't get it back in the box quick enough, sounded died. The supplying dealer agreed and said he knew l wouldn't like it. l am surprised now to see so much like for it. l have naim gear now and like MF but an old favourite l should have kept was Heybrook C3/P3 Designed by Tim de Pav
Just bought JBL L82 - VERY NICE- VERY DIFFERENT-thanks George
Safe to say you like it kelvin. Hefty price tag tho. Sugden quality comes at a price.
Beautiful amp! If only SMSL built a look-alike amp that I could afford for 10% of the price.
You should try the smsl vmv a1, crazy good amp for the money. I play Jazz, and the sound of a tenor sax is rich and full. You can hear the air going through it. A couple of drawbacks are, only one input and it’s not going to fill a large room. But sound quality a lower volumes, in a small room are insane. I can’t go back to my musical fidelity m5si at the moment. I only got it to try class A, and now I am seriously thinking of the sugden 21se, if this I what it sounds like.
My hifi n1 system has 900 watts ( 4 ohm Dali floorstanders ) with two 120W Arcam Amps (class A+G). biwired vertically, and a 200W REL 7Ti each side. It sounds great. My system 2 has an Arcam A90 rated at 90W driving Dali Opticon 2 bookshelf speakers. Has a Pro-ject TT and It sounds great too. My system 3 is just a Quad Vena and Opticon 1 bookshelves... I think 60W. Also sounds just as amazing. The only cables I use are by Atlas and contain no silver.... copper only. My friend has a custom made valve amp prob. about 24W... sounds very different but also good. What I want to say is that Wattage and good sound are unrelated.
I tend to agree
most of us enjoy the sound of class A amps.. my fav combo is paper cones driven by tubes but let's be real for a second: they are basically class AB amps w/ effect pedals incorporated :}
I’d love to hear you talk more about the music you play when testing this stuff. Subscribed:)
Nice video - thanks! I used to have a Musical Fidelity A-100 [class A] amp driving my Rogers Studio 1a Speakers. I gave the amp to a friend after I found one of my young son's toys melting on top of it. Boy that amp ran hot! I replaced it with a Linn amp which is good - but I do miss the control that class A amp had on my speakers and the dynamics too. Now the kids are grown up, maybe I should go down the class A route again? Hmm
I just picked up a Pure Class A Kenwood integrated from the Japanese Domestic Market for a steal due to the current status of the world. Sounds great but only 15 watts in class A. It has 40 watts if you switch it to class A-B. I was surprised how little watts I actually needed. Even with only 15 there's tons of headroom.
Yes people get too excited about watts
Nice! What’s the model?
nice! What’s the model?
Back in the nid-70s, I had a Yamaha CA-800 intrgrated which had a CLass A switch. It would put out only 5 watts of Class A, however the DCM Time Windows were fairly efficient and the CA-800 rinning CLassA would power the speakers perfectly in most applications. COngrats on your find!
Nice amp, and great review as always. I am very curious about class A, same as valve amps. For now I am happy with my Yamaha A-S1100 but one day who knows. No one talks about stereo equipment the way you do. I was quite (positive way) shocked when you mentioned Heckmondwike. Back in my emigration days in the UK I used to travel there every week for few days to work as a mobile service engineer. Happy days ! Greetings from Poland Kelvin !
If you live in the Mediterranean, true Class A means that you need another amp for the summer, or pay the same cost for air conditioning. But for Poland, who knows? Unless global warming reaches you there, you can still try a class A product, transistor or valve...
@AndMakrid I'm from Poland and I'm leaving in Cote D'azur lol ... yes is getting really hot here and pure class A will warm up my place even more . I would like to have one since i have already AC
@AndMakrid I'm from Poland and I'm leaving in Cote D'azur lol ... yes is getting really hot here and pure class A will warm up my place even more . I would like to have one since i have already AC
@AndMakrid I'm from Poland and I'm leaving in Cote D'azur lol ... yes is getting really hot here and pure class A will warm up my place even more . I would like to have one since i have already AC
@AndMakrid I'm from Poland and I'm leaving in Cote D'azur lol ... yes is getting really hot here and pure class A will warm up my place even more . I would like to have one since i have already AC
I have the sugden masterclass ia4, and it just sound right, rock, blues, jazz, classic. Speakers are Quad 22l, cheap but great, sound like music
Hi Kelvin, greetings from Dublin, keep up the good work!
You recommended a vintage sansui - I got one. You recommended this - I won't get one 😂
Fairpoint you can spend £1500 on speakers now or cocaine and hookers whatever you prefer
Please Kevin ...compare it with the powerful AKAI AM73 ..thanks
@@stereoreviewx That is a difficult choice.....Stuff it I'm going for the coke and hookers...(just this once...)
I got a Sansui AU-317 based on your recommendation and I love it! I'm paring it with KEF 104.2 and am wondering if I'd get any more improvement with a Sugden A21? thank you so much and can't wait to watch your next video!
@@chang850 Well first thing is it’s not going to be a huge difference and you have to have pretty good front-end and speakers to reveal it and the cost differences maybe 10 times so unless you’re very rich I’d stick with the Sansui
I have an A21a - the one with the silver fascia , black dials etc c.2003. Currently out of service but going back to Sugden for a service and to replace the phono stage. It will be recommissioned- superb piece of kit , no harsh edges at all, superb definition of all frequencies and all put together into pure foot tapping rhythm. This modern version must be even better.
Are Sugden still going?
My dad used to have the first A21 class A amp ... it had a very noisy volume control with the on/off switch combined... bad design !! It was a good room heater as well 🤣🤣200 watts went in and only 12 watts per channel out ... brilliant 🤣🤣🤣
With the cost of electricity nowadays, this is a bad value proposition. You’ll be paying £20 per song only joking. Yes Sugden appear to be still going go to bed they’ve changed hands somewhere along the line.
Hi Kelvin, another great review, out of my price range I’m afraid, maybe one day! Note that a common theme in the comments is that everyone wants you to review their stuff. Well, I’m not one to buck the trend. I had an audiolab 8000s back in the day which I really rated. Since getting back into 2 channel hifi, I have an audiolab 8000q / 8000p combination (flea bay bargain) which I’m happy enough with. Competent but dull seems to be the internet perspective on all things audiolab but I’d love to hear your views.
Keep up the good work and I wish you every success with the channel going forward
Yes if I can get one I will review it
I have owned an Audiolab 8000s and 8000p running a bi-amped system since 1994. Competent but dull is NOT my experience at all! Perhaps it’s the Castle Howard S2 speakers, or my Teac VRDS CD player, or the Nordost interconnects, or perhaps all of the system components working in concert.
I originally auditioned my system with an A21a and was blown away. So much so that the dealer had trouble getting me out of the demo room! The deal breaker was the lack of a remote volume control.
I very much loved the class A sound so auditioned a Musical Fidelity A1. Double the size (and price) of the A21a and with a chunky off board power supply. After a less than week of use and for no obvious reason, the l/h channel just died! I also noticed that one of the heat sink fins was bent, but due to the undamaged backplate, this must have happened before assembly. From the power supply, I expected heavy gauge wiring for the low voltage DC output, but the factory had stripped back the wire sleeving too much and I could see the wire was nothing more than lamp flex! Disillusioned with the quality of this amp, I returned it for a refund.
The dealer then suggested Audiolab. The 8000a was an acclaimed top performing amp, but had no remote control and frankly, when I’d heard it previously, it sounded thin and over detailed. The guy in the HiFi shop convinced me to have a listen to the 8000s, which was/is totally a very different beast! Fast, weighty, but fairly neutral delivery and with a good soundstage. It wasn’t as natural sounding as the A21a, but was a very satisfying listen. And I’ve enjoyed this along with the 8000p for all these years!
I now have my sights on the bigger, more powerful A21SE. I can’t afford new, but they do come up secondhand from time to time. I’m hoping to get one in silver, in mint condition.
I have that model but didn’t get the phono stage at the time it’s also Mc as well by the way. Glad hear you rate it as I thinking about getting one put in.
Currently mine is being fed by a “vintage” nad c541 ( punches way above its weight) and a chord qutest which I chose for it class A output stage and the fact you can change output voltage which I run at 1volt because the suggie has quite a lot of gain. With all this feeding a pair of klipsch heresy3. Lacks a touch of bass for there size but what I get is a ton of dynamics and super fast transients and loads of texture. Bass I could sort with a little sub. But currently I don’t feel I really need to.
I owned an A21a and it was lovely, I swapped it for a valve amp but I do have fond memories of the Sugden
Any valve amp will be worse.
Yep same for me. Loved my A21a, something really special about class A. Non fatiguing, warm and musical. It just wouldn't drive my 86db 4ohm Dynaudios as they want current. Lovely amp, great review!
Me too valve amp a must purchase for vinyl music
Still got my Sugden A48B that’s is over 25yrs old. They maybe expensive compared to a lot of Hi-Fi out there but once you own one there’s no going back. And £2,000 over 25yrs isn’t a lot.
I think I agree even though I’ve spent my life chasing bargains now I’ve got 15 Amps that cost £200 each
Hello, very interesting review indeed. I was thinking to couple this beautiful amp to my B&W 804N. Do you think can it play well with this speakers? Thanks a lot!
Have it for 1 day now. Simply wow. What speakers would fit perfectly? Vintage B&W’s or actual Dynaudio or other companies. 4.500 GBP budget. Thanks a lot.
class B kelvin,dont you mean ? class ab?Like most amplifiers in the world,exeption is tube amplifiers,as you have 2 forms of class a,class a SE,and class a2,also pure class a,and push pull,even actualy class AB transistor amps ,some, can do class A in the first few watts,and higher power the bias setting reverts to AB,its all about the bias,on the tubes or transistors.
Would it be possible to make a review of the Sugden A28. I know you did the A48 and now the A21. But that smaller A28 would be interesting for many of my friend in Canada. Thanks
Watch out...you may get sucked in by new gear! Though the price tags will protect you! ;)
The thing with me is I am used to finding turntables in rubbish dumps or in charity shops in the old days for £5 so I struggle with these pricetags .
@@stereoreviewx Me too! Some damn good finds in those places...
Hi Kelvin,
Did you had a chance to compare it with the PassLabs INT25 ? Seams to be a class A good one as well... struggle to decide which one to get...!
Thanks for your reviews.
Me too Can’t makeup my mind with pass int-25 and int-60
Love your reviews. Best on UA-cam. By the way, can you describe your reference system?
I can’t keep one system on I just keep changing things
The ls35a is on a lot
Any chance you could get hold of some Rega gear, like their new entry-level Rega IO amp? Would be curious to hear your thoughts.
I bought a Rega IO last week and although it's still probably getting broken in (by going through a number of heat cycles with different durations of operation) it's turning out to be an amplifier that definitely doesn't match its very affordable price tag! Whether you'd like the sound is another matter but I think it offers good value for money. As for its sound, it's not as resolving as my other amps, it doesn't do as great a job at presenting a well-defined soundstage and it seems to be a tad bass lite as all the speakers I've tried it with don't seem quite as bassy as they do when my other amps are driving them. It makes music sound quite enjoyable though! I think it's worth a demo for sure and probably best suited to a near or mid-field setup.
@@djwindhoek thanks for sharing yr thoughts! Actually I'm just starting out in hifi, so I was considering the IO for my small room (4x3 m, abt 1.5-2m from listening position) - i like the small footprint, plus i've read that it's very musical and involving ... I just wasn't sure if it's as good as the reviews make it out to be, but you say it seems to punch above its price point? Should I go for it or perhaps u can recommend something else? Also, the big question for me is the choice of speaker - what speaker do u think would be the ideal pairing for the IO? Thx again.
@@bluerev Bearing in mind that each room will affect the end sound differently, I think the speakers that would work best with it are speakers with reasonably high sensitivity: probably not less than 85db should be okay, and probably 8ohm impedance as well (all of which is to say try to get a pair of speakers that are reasonably easy for the IO to drive so it doesn't run out of steam too quickly as you turn the volume up to 'boogie volume'.)
The other thing is that because the IO does seem a tad light around the bass frequencies, I wouldn't go for speakers that are already bass-lite, otherwise the sound will probably be too bright, possibly too shrill. You don't necessarily need speakers that will rock the building but bass-lite speakers should probably be avoided. My Kralk Audio BC-30s sound far too thin and bright when paired with the IO but sound fantastic with my Naim amp. Fwiw, my other speakers are Tannoy Legacy Eatons and Tannoy Autograph Minis and both of them sound much more fulsome when it comes to the bass frequencies.
I know Rega makes speakers and I'd be optimistic that their bookshelf speakers would work well with the IO, but I haven't heard any so I can't say for sure.
Whatever you do, it's probably worth checking out Small Room Audio's YouTubube channel as he focuses on hifi for smallish rooms; my room's pretty much the same size as yours. It's hard to give a specific speaker recommendation but I really do think the IO is underpriced for what it does (assuming the inputs are sufficient) and it's well worth a demo for sure :)
@@djwindhoek Thanks for your in-depth reply, there's no substitute for advice coming from first hand experience. The IO being bass light makes me wanna rethink things tbh - but hey I guess one can't expect a ton of bass from a budget 30W amp. But just in general, would you describe the IO as leaning on the bright side in the upper frequencies, or just neutral - it's certainly not rolled off right?
@@bluerev Another way of looking at the bass-lite thing is that it means you can probably put speakers closer to a wall and also use speakers that would otherwise be too big on the bottom end, as it were. My Kralk Audio speakers are sealed boxes while both my Tannoys are ported so I reckon if you used a ported pair of speakers with an IO it would probably be okay - as you say, there's no substitute for experience so you'll never know unless you hear one for yourself.
The amp definitely isn't bright at all. It seems to have a great tonal balance except when it gets to the lower frequencies; which may also be a good thing as bass frequencies are usually the trickiest to deal with in a room if it becomes too overbearing.
I was quite skeptical at all the glowing reviews at first as I usually take that to mean a company has a big budget when it comes to advertising/marketing. But in this case, I think the widespread praise is justified. While it won't leave you thinking or feeling you've got a really expensive amp for peanuts, the IO might actually become a modern classic if it isn't already regardless!
Hi Kelvin - would you compare the A21 to the Rega Elicit ? similar money and I am considered either - thanks and greetings from Ireland - Paul
Thank you for this review. Have vintage speakers and Amp. I run Cabasse Caravelle M2 speakers with Technics Amp A900s and Pre-Amp SU-C800U, Rega P1 turntable, Node 2i and NAD C542 CD Player. Sounds fabulous but wondering if I change the Amp to Sugden A21?
Hi, I'll add something from myself. I agree with everything you said but there is one more thing. I had class A and A/B Sugden and such things as less bass, lots of details, or good musical presentation, that's their style. Sugden in class A or A/B sound very similar. Class A has a three times more weighted sound. Sugden plays very clean, focuses on the midrange. It can do a lot with weak speakers. best regards
Is it reasonable to say that by putting the tweeters on the outside you also moved the position of the woofer relative to the room which would change the base response - in this case for the better? Just a thought keep up the "Class A" work!
Well yes the base was better it was all round better
Hi looking for some feedback on the Rega Atheos amplifier. Any opinions would be appreciated.
Cheers
the reason for tweeters always on the outside is to distance them a bit more so they are in phase with the other drive units
if you put them on the inside they become even more out of phase than if they were stacked vertically linear
Well my experience historically is that manufacturers would say tweeters on the inside honestly I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read or heard that
My Sugden has a subtle “softness” and a little bit of bass bloom. I don’t think my speakers need the softness. But I love the look of it and it’s compact.
I’ll have to give it another go
Yes they are very warm sounding and non fatiguing, just a suggestion sometimes certain audio cables can help add more bass or more treble, if your speakers are not delivering. I found I was able to remedy this with Siltech and Nordost cabling. My speakers were a bit on the subdued side but they seem to have come alive with different cabling options. Also removing the grilles from the speakers can help as well.
My latest and by all means last integrated power amplifier. Thinking to get another set of speakers. Otherwise a gem..
Excellant review. Would you recommend the A21 Sig. Sugden over your Musical Fidelity integrated for Rogers LS3/5A 15 ohm. (forgot which MF you like)
I haven’t got a musical Fidelity I wish I had
Pure class B amps aren't suitable for audio because each of the paired (negative and positive) transistors turn off completely between the positive and negative waveform. This creates a TON of crossover distortion which sounds nasty. Pure class A is the opposite where both transistors stay on constantly, which allows for seamless transitions between the negative and positive waveform, completely eliminating crossover distortion.
Without getting technical I think this analogy I came up with will explain the concepts of class A, A/B and B and why class A sounds the best and B sounds like ass. If athletes in a rely race performed like class B, the moving runner would come to a full stop and pass on the baton to a stationary runner. Class A/B is more like a typical rely race where the baton is passed off at a jogging pace. A class A rely race would have both runner sprinting at full speed (side by side) and pass the baton back and forth without missing a beat.
Also, all class A/B amps are biased (how much the transistors are on constantly) to a certain amount of pure class A output. High biased class A/B amps can have 1-10 watts (or more) of pure class A mode and only switch to A/B mode when more power is required. 5-10 watts is typically enough power for most people in average sized rooms. Powerful transients might dip into A/B mode, but all the nuances (like vocals) will be silky smooth (and airy) class A sweetness.
Also, class A amps heat soak quickly and all amps will sound their best when the components (capacitors, resistors, transistors......) are at operating temperature of which the amp was tuned at. Especially bias and DC offset. Class A/B amps can take an hour or more to warm up and class A amps can warm up in a couple minutes.
All amp classes have compromises and class A amps compromise efficiency. Every other class compromises sound quality in favor of efficiency, because class A is the most linear topology of all amp design.
I don't care if my JC1 mono blocks get quite warm, because 25 watts of silky smooth class A magic puts a big smile on my face every time I listen. I am also a big fan of direct coupled amps, because there are no capacitors or inductors in the signal path.
Do they still sell this new? Looking at setting this around a Proac DB1
What speakers did you try it with? I have read that this amp can become faulty over time possibly with all the heat. How would you compare it to the original Nad 3020? I have never had an amp that I liked more after a number of expensive upgrades.
I used LS35A’s and spendor BC ones If you have a nice working nA.D. 3020. The price difference to the Sugden is huge I wouldn’t do it myself there’s such a joy in that NAD more than 98% of amplifiers ever made.
The Sugden is better more detailed but I don’t know you’d enjoy it substantially more .
Is that law of diminishing returns
Interesting. My dad has had the LS3/5A for over 30 years. I find they have a beautiful open sound playing his mainly classical music tastes. What do you reckon is the ultimate speaker match for the NAD? No budget restrictions. Needs to be fairly efficient otherwise could be too much of a load for the power, even though I know it can handle very difficult loads if it needs to! I had one back in 1981 and a few since, but recently purchased a completely reconditioned one from Italy in practically new condition.
Let's assume we never pump volume more than 55 db and we want best sounding speaker.. Wich would be the winner?
Have you ever reviewed an series 1 Alchemist Kraken integrated? I might be willing to lend you mine if you are interested. I don't live far from Audio Gold.
OK Jelvin no need for any of the rum bum technos in this one. Those little devices where sometimes you only get one but more frequently you get two are output transistors and a transistor is a switch that can be either ON or OFF so when the transistor is switched ON it is said to be saturated and when it is OFF it is said to be cut off. In either of these states the transistor consumes very little power. Another thing is that transistors such as these can be joined together to make one really big transistor.. However , when the transistor is neither ON nor OFF the it is biased and the wattage consumption will be determined by the maximum power parabola thus milking the poor old transistor for everything it has got.
Hi Kelvin - how do you think these would go with the KEF LS50? On the one hand 23W is not much power and the KEFs, as you know, want power. However, a lot of what you say about the Sugden sounds like it would offset the flaws in the LS50.
Well I have to say no I wouldn’t use the LS 50s on this Amp
Truth is I’m not a big fan of the ls50 speakers at all
And they really don’t work without being push quite hard power wise
Hi Kelvin,
I'm really curious about the pairing of the LS3/5A and the Sugden- I saw in the comments below that you used them with the A21. In particular, I was wondering if the A21 seemed to produce less heat with the Rogers, given the power reduction from the impedance. Is it noticable or negligible? Cheers
Must say I didn’t monitor the heat
@@stereoreviewx No worries! I wouldn't expect you to hold a thermometer to it but I'd be curious to know if it seems a bit less hot with those speakers if you still have it.
Class A amplifiers run hot (that's normal), independent of the speaker impedance, size or loudness/volume, which is why most, if not all, have massive external heatsinks that run along or atop their chassis. From the moment they're turned on until turned off they run at full, unmitigated power, from 200-250W an up - it varies from amplifier to amplifier and the size of the transformer it packs. They're really power hungry beasts, but they're worth it.
Different speaker all together. The magnapan MMG. But it has its tweeter also towards one of its side.
And they're labeled and recommend to set up with the tweeter on the outside.
Ofcource their is those that prefer to put the tweeter on the inside.
I have tested both ways and I also prefer the sound with the tweeter on the outside of some of the reasons you said. 👍
I also use a class A pass power amp.
Yes it’s interesting because I’ve messed around with treaters like that all my life and I came to the conclusion Twitter on the inside but it sure ain’t with the speakers I’m glad you agree
Eh man ! Your Watch is so beautifull ! What is this model ? please, Thanks
I had one of these. Selling it was a huge mistake!
Beautiful amp
I am tempted by this amp it has some movable heft and have heard it drive ATC SACM19 on youtube. But there is a consensus among the reviewers that it runs hot also from the internet I note that some users have technical issues with the amp (like the fuse goes morte than once...?) So the cons pull me back and look at other amps which do not run hot and are known for their stable use....Eg Naim, Hegel or Exposure amps....
Okay well I may not be as well read as you on this subject .
I would say class A amps so always run hot .But if you’re reading from legitimate people things are going wrong I wouldn’t try to convince you otherwise
Good stuff.
What I would be interested in is what this Sugden would sound like compared to the Prima Luna evo 100.
They’re similar in price. It’s what I’ve always wondered. A standard sized living room, a descent speaker and at normal volumes playing something like John Martyn or Joni Mitchell. Does the grip of solid state win over the air and romance of valves? Go on, do it!
Cheers
I might be able to get a prima Luna I mean vowels are so magical it’s kind of a different world
@@stereoreviewx That’s what I’ve heard and read.
I’ve owned solid state integrateds and big pre power amps in past.
As I’ve got older though and I listen at quieter volumes and play gentler, softer music think is it time for valves in my life?
I’m curious about the “x” of your channel. Something related to the nice logo you choosed?
I bet he's an X-box gamer! 😉
Well the X really is some kind of X factor or secret ingredient the logo by the way I just did with some felt tip pens.
Cheers K
It's because all of the material is X-rated 😀
Where have you gone kelvin
Dear friend, Class A means that the signal is totaly amplified on it's whole cycle...so the active device be it a vacuum tube or a transistor amplifies the total signal.......class B splits the signal so one transistors does half of the job..........Class AB is when little signal levels are amplified in class A and larger signals in class B.
Class A draws max current at idling , class B draws no current . that's why Class A runs hot!!!!!!!!! most amps run in Class AB.........
When an Class AB amplifier commutes to Class B , impedance and other electric parameters do change, not so in Class A.......
Class A is far more expensive to build and less watts for the money ....but those watts are normaly of higher quality........it is " La voie royale " of amplification...
The best Cable in the World is no Cable...okey let us all conect per WiFi (it's w/o cable). ;-) But some HiFi-Head goes into a shop and like to buy WLAN-Cable, to check the Soundquality, too. :-D
try some missons speakers with techics amp or tunner the detail is good and the sound is clear and clean and real....
Nice review kal
23 pure class A can be lo loud, depending of the construction can do like 100 w class AB
If you get a chance take a look at French made Lavardin integrated and they will put a fair fight with A21 except that heat.
Hi, I'm struggling to find info on this. Does it have a headphone amp built in, is that a headphone socket on the front?
Such a beautiful bit of kit.
No headphones socket I’m afraid
@@stereoreviewx ok cool, thanks.
Props to Caroline Williams:)
Caroline also made mine
the name of who built and checked them was also done 50 years ago
Amazing
It' s not the same price but i except somebody could tell me if the ma 252 mcintosh is really far better please ? Thanks a lot
Hello ,where is Kelvin now??
..we miss You..
Hi Kelvin, would you know whether or not the old Wood case sugden a21 (which I is ) is still basically the same amp?
No it’s definitely not the same and it’s annoying they keep using the same numbers I did hear the wooden case one you talk about a long time ago I don’t remember being impressed by it but the later metal only ones are impressive Not the brand-new one I mean ones from the 70s 80s 90s possibly
@@stereoreviewx thanks Kelvin. Guess you are right. As I understood it, the old a21 was a not quite up to par competitor to the quad 33/303.
@@leendertvanderent5078 I have an original A21 and I would say it blows the Quad stuff out the water. To me, it doesn’t even compare. It’s that much better. You must however, partner it with sensitive (and high quality) speakers as it does not have much power. 8-10w max. I absolutely love mine.
@@theoriginaldanalogue thanks for your answer. Paired it to (excellent) celestion ditton 33 and compared it to the strange but excuisite combi of luxman cl 350 and pioneer sx 800 2x38 watts tube amplifier as power amp. The sugden didn't stand a chance. Maybe pair it to Cabasse speakers, typically at 93 db sensitivity or higher
@@leendertvanderent5078 Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes against those amps, power wise, it wont fair well. 90dB plus speakers in a small to mid size room, and the amp will sing. If you can work with its limitations, the benefits will come through. And you will hear an amp that sounds modern, sweet and open. They’re not fast compared with the newer ones but I have mine paired to a pair of Tannoy NFM8 speakers. I’m not a huge fan of Tannoy, but these I feel, are amazing speakers. The amp sounds amazing with them. Super detailed, decent bass, no smear to the sound, really open, natural but not warm. Good luck with your set up.
What happened to you?? WE miss you…
Great review! Does anyone know how it compares to the A21a Series 1 which ranges for £650 - £690 2nd hand.
It’s a good question I don’t know the answer I did have an old Sugden I think it was a 21 they had yellow lettering it sounded great class A too
SE amps not as powerful in the bass but they shine all around. Warm tubby sound.
Hifi Choice Jul 2005:
"A truly magical soundstage and to transparency die for. Almost everything else at the price sounds grainy by comparison."
They got the class A placebo effect!
That was the A21SE. I have it with Heco Direct 2 ways and it is every bit as they say
do they sell this amplifier like a hiend.? I have listened it with harberth super hl5, omg what a big dissapointment for me , especially high freq.... capacitors and building details are real tragedy.... FOR ME...
You need different speakers. The amp outclasses them.
How does it compare to the a48?
Oh it’s quite different a 48 is bigger beefier more bass But doesn’t have the class a detailing
How good is the seperat Phonoboard for 21a. Okay or very good
I think I would use the word pretty damn
how sounds it with b/w dm 4
Is it worth the money? By that I mean is it twice as good as something that costs £1000?
This money question is really more tricky than I thought in the end I think is it the sounds that you want that’s the thing
Depends on how you quantify the improvements the amp brings.
There are two types of HiFi consumer. The first that listens intently and evaluates products on their sonic performance over time. The second type only needs a brief listen and is more focused on looks and price.
As you progress from mid to high end HiFi, differences are often nuanced and subtle. The difference between pure class A and AB is definitely obvious to those who are really engaging in the listening experience.
Of course, you’ll get something pretty damned good for £1000. It’ll be mass produced in China, not handcrafted in Heckmondwyke, Yorkshire.
British built HiFi has always had a reputation for great sound and build quality and is considered more desirable than mass produced products from the Far East.
Hi kelvin Interesting review on the Sugden.. I am struggling to upgrade my old trusty Marantz PM6006 amp and I am in the €1000/2000 space - I have stuggled to demo any hifi gear with poxy covid and I am eating up reviews and there are so may choices - I have kinda boiled it down to Roksan K3 or M2 / Rega Elex R and the Yamaha AS1200 which is a beast - but I do liker tone controls - big form factor - well built and of course old school VU meters .. head scratching stuff / I use Rega P6 and MA Silver 100s greetings from Ireland - Paul
Within the last fortnight I bought and returned a Roksan Kandy K3, which at least in my system lacked bass and was poor at low listening levels. I mention this because I was surprised, given the 140w power rating of the K3. My existing Naim Nait 5i with just 50w and vintage Cyrus 2 also 50w, both provided heftier bass. It just goes to show you, that power ratings on amplifiers do not necessarily translate to more powerful sound, but more accurately to maximum loudness, which of course is not the same thing. Good luck on your search.
I auditioned this along with a Rega Aethos and a Hegel H120. The Sugden was the least desirable, sounding flat, tame and on the boring side. The Aethos sounded effortless with the Hegel coming in second. The Sugden was dissapointing for the price. It looks good though.
PS... Is it detailed?
Flat and tame!? It was properly warmed up and you gave it a proper listen, right?
My experience was that it was sumptuous, expansive and natural sounding. An amplifier that sounded bigger and more muscular than its specifications suggested!
@@IIIIIIPETEIIIIIIWe are talking two years ago since I commented but I still remember the sound. Yes it was a well ran in sample and was warmed up for 48 hours.
Ha, ha I used an A21 that was already ancient 40 years ago...Hope they improved it...Looks like they have. 😸 The early one was not that good to be honest. I also remember getting confused between J.E Sugden and....A R Sugden..Grrr, the second was Connoisseur turntable maker.
Oh I see all the time I thought it was the same Sugden company
@@stereoreviewx PPS You look familiar I was in the trade for many, many years in London mostly...I Imagine we bumped into each other once or twice.
Ho comprato Il Sugden A21 SE 30watt ultimo modello con le due griglie sui due lati superiori, senza i buchi tondi con griglie. è Fantastik OKKKKK!!
Would a tube amp (class A) play 90’s rock music good?
Stereophile magazine reviewers used to play Veruca Salt's American Thighs album when they tested Cary's series of 300B based single-ended triode amps back in 1995. Stereophile sure did their part in making Veruca Salt as popular as Metallica and Marilyn Manson back then.
Yes!!
@@laurentzduba1298 The poor Sudgen would vomit if youìd make it play such garbage
I want one. Old Monitor Audio RX6 speakers 🙂
Looking at buying an amp/receiver from 1970s but don't want to pay stupid money. Could you recommend something midrange which would do a decent job?
Well try a Sansui 441 or or 551 don’t worry about the wattage not being high I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told people to buy these receivers and they write back to me and say what a great thing
Many thanks
Ive had well over 100 Vintage receivers. Almost every Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, Onkyo, Sherwood, Luxman, Marantz etc Best Bang for the Buck is the SANYO JCX 2900K. Its better than anything Pioneer or Marantz ever made back then. Its on par with the Onkyo 8500 and Kenwood KR 9600. You can grab one for about $400 which is MUCH less than the TOTL Pioneer/Marantz/Kenwoods. The Sherwood S-9910 is another Sleeper that I rank above the rest and also can be had at a bargain price. If your going to grab a Sansui get the EIGHT DELUXE (not the Eight). Will cost you 500-700 but its awesome. The 441,551,661,771,881 are NOWHERE in the same league which is why they go for $100-250..
@@billiondollarbaby3276 Well of course I’ve had and still have quite a lot of receivers myself there is also the question of why you consider a good sound.
Regarding a bargain I’m still definitely maintaining the 331 et cetera range is a great buy .
Which I think was the request
@@stereoreviewx Why spend $100 on Mediocrity when you can have the best quality in the 400-500 range. The ability to change the MIDRANGE on the Sherwood and SANYO and not just bass/treble is an AMAZING feature which Im sure your probably not aware of. I had all of my receivers at the same time basically so not going from "audible memory" which is the key.
i thought all class A had to have tubes?
no
The sugden still does not sound as good as my 1997 AVI S2000MI amplifiers, which I use just to power the mids and highs of my late model monitor audio gold reference GR20's. I use one amplifier for the left loudspeaker and one amplifier for the right loudspeaker, using the same channel on each amplifier with the volume control wide open on each amp, then use my linn genki cd player's volume control. The AVI MI have extremely low distortion, even at and below the first watt it is only 0.001% and at 50 watts of its output it's only 0.003% and this % at a minimum of - 95 dB down in level. Detail, resolution, transparency, neutrality, to the source signal is better than the sugden, while also possessing a colourless disposition, like a transparent colourless window.