Kawasaki KX500 2-Stroke VS KX450F 4-Stroke
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Is a two-stroke better than a four-stroke? The dust will never settle and the battle will never end.
To further examine this issue, Dirt Rider enlisted the help of Destry Abbott aboard his championship winning two-stroke Factory Kawasaki KX500 and his thundering Kawasaki KX450F to find out which bike is the ultimate machine. Check out the 2014 August issue of Dirt Rider for a full comparison. - Авто та транспорт
![[2 STROKE VS 4 STROKE] We Put 250's Head to Head](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cRP5NWAPKis/mqdefault.jpg)
Dont matter what u ride as long as u have fun on it.
+AnthonyandMaria ROCHA Kinda like fat girls.
I totaly agree!!!!!!!!!!!!
about having fun not the other 2 things
The FuKiN_KiNg true
But you would have MORE fun on the 2-stroke yeah ??
They need to start making the kx500 again seriously
I just read that Suzuki is seriously considering relaunching 2-stroke line!
KTM
Husqvarna
Sherco
GAS GAS
TRS
TM
Yamaha
They all have 2T lines and Yamaha just added a new Enduro YZ 250X to this year's list.
It's coming, Honda is doing something with EFI patents and I'm sure Kawasaki isn't far behind. Only a matter of time before it begins the return to greatness with the 2-stroke.
+• have you ever ridden a kawasaki 2 stroke? they are crazy powerful. there crotch rockets are fast to.
cloud chaser
Had a CR500, actually like the KTM 300 2 stroke better.
*****
Thank you Captain obvious
+cloud chaser I had a ZX6R, it could hang with the street fighter class 1000cc bikes I rode with back then. Sadly, the bike became unstable beyond 150 MPH... death wobble is a term from building a street'able rock crawlers JEEP and that bike had death wobble beyond 150 MPH.
I like KAWI supersport bikes more than their 4-stroke MX bikes...
I own a 2004 KX-500, you can have the 4 stroke all day long. I'm sticking with my 500. When I turn the throttle on, it changes atmospheric conditions, it puts a smile on my face when that power band hits!!!! I Love IT!!!! It is easy to work on, parts are cheap, and on a straight out drag race the 500 will win every time. SO go ahead buy your 4 stroke, its easy, its smooth, it doesn't vibrate! Oh well go buy some panties too!!!! 2 STROKES RULE!!!!!! Check out John Dowd on his KX-500 at the Vets MXDN. You want to compare how about a 2015 KX-450f vs, 2015 KX-500AF from service Honda?
af is a nice toy. i'd still take a steel 500. steel frame likes that engine better I think
What is so strange Mr. Roost!!!!? You can take a 500 2 stroke put it up in third gear and loaf it around the track. Or, you can work it and use the power band to devour 4 strokes, 450's are the tastiest!!!! The 2 stroke 500 or open class dinosaur with updated suspension is the funnest bike(s) to ride. There is nothing strange about getting a 2004 KX-500 to hit to where the humidity around you changes to fog! I too can put my 04 KX-500 in third gear and just torque ir around that's fun too. But getting on a straight away with a 2014 450 and smoke the Shit out of him just makes you giggle like kid on Christmas. Later Mr. Roost. I hope someday I meet you out there on your 4 stroke.
*****
Hey There Roost! Check out Sean Collier on his KX-500, check out Destry Abbot on his 500. Those Riders are constantly in the Power Band. Strange how much a dip shit you are!!!!
Look bud you obviously are some immature little wimp ass. Everyone is so proud of you that you can upload a video!!!! Yeah for Mr. Roost!!!! Your so talented!!!! It's strange that you can do that Mr. Roost!!! A 250 does not feel like a 500? Isn't a 500 a whole other 250 engine? That's strange Mr. Roost none of us knew that!!!! You are so smart!!!!
Yes you are correct Mr. Roost you got it correct!!!! The next time I have a question about 2 stroke power bands I will msg. you because you are so full of great knowledge. Thank you so much for assisting me to seeing the light. You are AWESOME!!!!
I owed a 1987 KX500 which had been ported, bored out, and other goodies it had so much power I could hit well over 120mph in 3 gears it was just so fast. The sound of that big 2 stroke just sounds so cool. Had to give it up when I was on my 3rd knee operation miss those days been 20 years now.
OW! (Had surgery on both of my knees.)
For those of us old guys who came up on two-strokes (in an era when four-strokes were not viable) we developed riding styles to match and cope with the power bands of the then three classes. Modern engine development has pretty much put that difference to rest. However, for the younger guys who have never ridden one, don't turn down the opportunity to ride an open class two stroke.
4-strokes take all the fun out of riding, nothing better than hearing that 2-stroke hitting the band!!!!
+Seat Leon 100% agree. Nothing beats that sound.
I love that high pitched sound of a 2 stroke
Hallelujah brother!
+awesome austin Definitely not every other race. I was hard on my KX500 and never replaced the clutch every other race.
why do 4 strokes take the fun out of riding... have you even ridden a good one before?
he's only promoting 4 strokes because he is paid to say that. You can't bite the hand that feeds you in that industry, they will drop you instantly
Peter Turnbull more like they dont make the 500 anymore, thats why hes paid to say the bike that they make now is better than the old bike, even though its not.
Peter Turnbull put the 500 in the 450 chassis, then see what he says.
Peter Turnbull you must have never rode a 500.
Brandon lowe as someone that has ridden a kx450 and races a kx500 in the national hare and hound series id rather be racing a 450 if i was a pro. Only thing that i hate about the 450s is the maintenance. My 500 is great and i love the thing like no other but if someone else was paying for maintenance i would be on the 450 in a heart beat. The 500 is alot of power and is almost unmanageable at times, if i didn't way 195 this bike would be unmanageable. Hell on the start lines i have to have my balls on the gas cap for the first 200 feet so i dont loop it out.
Peter Turnbull for little guys like you maybe.
I’ve been riding 50 years. My Best Friend and I have rode together since we were 8. I had a Trail 70 and he had an XR75. He has owned the CR500 since 94’. Love riding that insane machine!
2 strokes are more interesting, stinky, smokey and louder. I love them
I really miss my old KX500. Should never have sold it. But I roached my knee a month ago, and I don't think I could start it. It was a beast.
I agree 100%, the four strokes are literally taking over the sport, GNCC, MX, Desert, everywhere! I know that im gonna get some hates on this comment due to you "two stroke only" people, but why do you think that everyone is riding these four strokes nowadays? All the pro's are riding the newest, baddest, fastest four strokes out there. I race hare scrambles, and i know quite a few people thag still ride 2 strokes, this may be due to the whole idea of simply starting your bike! On these four strokes, you have to jump up and down and spin around on your head to start the danm thing. While on the two stroke, its one kick and your off. Also the idea of a simple bike vs. A more complex bike. The two strokes are very basic and extremely easy to work on, compared to the bulky four strokes. And weight, weight plays a major factor in the comparison between two and four strokes, I know lots of guys that are switching over to the smokers bc they cant handle the weight of a 250 or 450. It also comes down to comfort, riding style, track/trail conditions, etc. I guess it all comes down to personal preference... I am very interested in seeing the "come back" of the two strokes. I don't know if this is true, but I heard that a few brands have been experimenting with creating a fuel injected 2 stroke. I think that this will change peoples perspective on the old bug repellers...
***** Yeah haha, no doubt that two strokes are more fun, i was actually looking up the yz's the other day, I think I want one now haha.
i Love a 2 stroke mainly because its cheaper to fix lol and they are fast as hell!
Hahahaha yeah ik. Nothing feels better than the powerband
JackBmxc yeah, im about to get a kx250
You know what you four stroke guys seem to forget is that you're comparing with half the cc, and you're still blaming your shitty engines are better, that's simply why every pro races a 4 stroke just cause they are allowed riding bigger engine displacement
I think a parallel twin KX 600 two stroke would rock your world. Twice the power pulses per revolution, and twin expansion cambers done in titanium to one aluminum quite silencer. Tuned port fuel injection and electronic spark curve rounds out the mean green package.
It takes a $7000 4-stroke to be close to a $1800 2 stroke from 10 years ago. Its not even close. Drop a two stroke into a new frame and it'll chew up and spit out a 4 stroke. They call the 4 strokes smooth (that means slow) they take a LOT longer to get up to speed.
His name is groutaone look him up
Groutines cr500af
They're faster, but they take longer, yes.
No one buy bike brand new
@Eric Tasaico true but 4 strokes work much more efficiently with the combustion and exhaust, on a 2 stroke some of the gas is wasted every stroke and some of the exhaust is left in the chamber, there is more power strokes but each one is not as efficient but i love all motors
450s are badass but the sound and the feeling and the power delivery of a 2 stroke is second to none.2stroke always number 1 in my book.
This debate can be quickly ended by just looking to the GNCC series results from the last 3 years. The bike that has won the 2013,2014, and a few of the 2015 ( sometimes they pick the 450 depending on the condition of the course and weather ) is a KTM 300 two stroke! It just flat runs away from all of the 450F's.....and yes, I realize that that isn't motocross/supercross, but bike for bike of the same displacement, the 2 stroke just is better. Now if we could just convince the factories that we want KX, RM, CR, YZ, SX and Husky two strokes in the newest frames, suspension, and geometry. To quote Beavis and Butthead,'Yeah, that'd be cool, huh, huh, huhh, huh, huhh!''
the name was escaping me at the time, Kalub Russell, and as of late he's running only the 450. Kinda proved me wrong, LOL!
+timm white I think it was last year Kailub won the Pro class on a KTM125XC. It can be done
I watched 3 more GNCC's this year on tv, Kalub (Kailub?) is full-timing on the 450 KTM four stroke now. As much as I hate to say it, the 450's make so much power and put it to the ground so effectively that they (despite the extra weight) are getting to where they're hard to beat. I will still be getting a 300 (or bigger!) two stroke when I finally do get back to riding/racing again. The Beta, Husqvarna, KTM, and Sherco sure have gotten on their game in the last 2 years!
+timm white Will they ever make 2 strokes again?
KTM,Yamaha, Beta, Husqvarna, and Sherco (used to be Bultaco) are still building some badass 2 stroke bikes. Everything from 50cc to 300c. If AMA/FIM rules ever allow it, we may get some 2 strokes bigger than 300cc! I still love 2 strokes but in racing the 'new' 4 stroke power just makes for more traction (in most situations) and more actual speed achieved in a short distance. I was watching a bunch of guys on 4 strokes jumping a small double that was immediately at the exit of a turn, they were clearing it no problem, when I tried it on my 360 two stroke I was coming up short every time (never did clear it!)
I have KX500cc now... thats incredible power bomb! (in mint condition for -90)
Hello :D I sen ur videos with kx500 that thing is just awesome.
Should of compared a kx500af of the same year 450f frame.
What’s the difference of a 500af? I don’t know much about 500s lol
@@490Adrian the af just stands for aluminum frame.
@@123devinzz1 ok ty man
I think this is a fair assessment of the two types of bikes. The caveat being the fact he mention that IF the manufacturers had kept pace (like KTM has) with the KX500, it would be equal or better but since his only option is a new 450F or a 10 year old 5000 2T, hes a Pro still racing so of course he;s going to take the newer technology bike. John Dowd who raced for both Kawasaki, Yamaha, and KTM told me in confidence almost ALL of the top MX pros would rather ride 2T cos the separate the men from the boys..BUT as Pros they must race what they're PAID to race, so you have to wonder if Destry's opinion would change one he is not being paid to race anymore. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to you all.
I like really heavy and less powerful bikes.... JK I love two strokes. More power per cc and less weight. Its a pretty simple decision. The fact that he's even comparing a 10 year old 2 stroke bike with a brand new 4 stroke says a lot. Compare a modern two stroke and a modern four stroke and the two stroke will blow it out of the water.
The old two stroke will blow the doors off the new four stroke just as well. There's no reason two strokes ever should have stopped coming into America other than stupid environmental laws passed by libtards from the political left. Very foolish of the big four Japan motorcycle manufactures to bow to the Green Peacers and Earth Firsters who support the democrats. The good news is it seems like a lot more riders are seeing the light and preferr two strokes. My advice is stop voting Democrat and keep voicing your opinions.
+ARidingLifestyle 10 year old? Try more like the KX looks like a late 90's bike which would mean a 15 year old bike vs brand new. 2 strokes forever. Fuck the envrionmental (or mental for short) dipshit fun police
a
have you ever riden a 2 stroke?Joey Fnuts
macaholic100 i was wondering why they stopped making a clearly superior bike. Now i know. Fucking liberals ruin everything.
Im definitely getting another 4 stroke. Thanks
ok progress the 500 twostroke tech with the four stroke.....ya end of discussion. nothing makes pure power like those did and its such a shame many younger guys will never experience 4th gear power wheelies on stock gearing at 60mph in the sand
i rode 500's for 20 years..i finally got a 450f..ill say the same things Destrey says..technology and handling make the 450 the new king
Put the kx500 engine on the new 450s frame and you will change the mind lol
One day maybe I will own a 500 two stroke...oh wait never mind
Love your videos groutaone
Matt Gore Big thanks for that
I would take your bike over a fully modded 2015 450 any day. Badass
Cherry AppIe Juice Thanks man, I think the 500 would also be fun to try with an 2015 chassis, maybe one day
groutaone Yeah!
Maico used to make a 700cc (single cylinder) 2-stroke MX bike. It was sold only in Europe. Maico has been defunct for awhile as far as I know. They actually made an experimental 760 2-stroke back in the early 80's. It was never in production.
I've been a 2 stroke guy all my life, but lets face it. 4 strokes have so much more technology than our beloved 2 strokes. With the AMA rules banning 2 strokes at the request of environmentalists, there doesn't seem to be much motivation for R&D to put any more technology into two strokes.
I am unaware of the AMA banning 2 strokes on the behalf of environmentalist. You can ride a 2 stroke in pro supercrosses/motocross. Local ama district events. You can run them at lorettas and even at the race tracks in California. I agree that there is a cc for cc disadvantage for the 2 stroke that I personally think is bs. Demand supplies market, and a big majority want 4 strokes, sorry.
Paul Soul
it's the same as with F1. "noise pollution".... the folks in our country (little Belgium) living near mx circuits always complained alot about the "noise". some circuits got closed and if it wasn't for 4-strokes i think we wouldn't have any circuits left.
Ashton Symons
it's been more then 10 years i heard a nice decent 2-stroke engine in real life. i also actually thought they didn't make it anymore. did the noise got tempered from 2-strokes? because in our country they will do tests with a dB meter. if over 96dB.. you are forbidden to race even if you have paid for training on the circuit. you get kicked out!
Ashton Symons
the 2 stroke is "proven" to be stronger (on lighter machines) in the pulling range (1st gears), and middle. the final set of gears (speed) 4 stroke has more power. but that is a dyno test and that's "flat road". if you consider a track has lot's of turns etc. 2 stroke wins hands down. also like you said, a hillclimb is better for 2 strokes because thats not about speed but pulling power. a dragrace on a long flat, the 4 will win. but motocross is not a long flat so it's obvious : ) and i don't talk about experience but it's in the family and was born with motocross. my 80's and 90's was all about mx. i miss it and come to youtube listen to 2 strokes. my dad was mechanic for his bro (my uncle) in the 80's who was Belgian champion (BLB amateur class though :D ). i miss that sound man!
Redbull straight rhythm might revive the two stroke...pastrana on a 500!!!
I love the look and style and sound of the old heavily finned air cooled engines, just my preference, OLD SCHOOL here.
Peace out!
79, 80, 82, KX 250 pilot Bill.
I love the sound of the 2 stroke
Reading through the comments it's real easy to see from their opinions a lot of people here haven't been around very long.
Just think if Kawasaki Suzuki or Honda kept on producing 2 strokes and made them handle better have more power and improved everything on the bike and improved the technology of the bike . Good luck catching the 2 strokes if that happend
+King Plumb 2 strokes are good for takes offs, not long distance like more tracks now adays, four strokes gain speed as there going 2 strokes don't. Thats why every ones got 4 stroke now.
your right they should work on 2 strokes more
a 4 stroke is a trail rider so it would not stand a chance against a 2 stroke on the track
reagan miller Are you fucking serious dude? People do all the time. Some win, and some lose. Whether or not you're on a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke makes no fucking difference on the track. The only thing that actually matters in amateur races is how good you are, so people like you sitting around trying to talk about 2 strokes dominating basically are just letting everyone know that you've never raced and don't get how any of it works.
+reagan miller ur dumb dude they have been making 4 strokes for motos for a while now, they make a certain bike each company does Kawasaki is a klx that is trail kx is moto
That kx500 stillbrips shit up considering it came out in like 1988 and never changed. Amazing
Considering it takes double the cc's for a four stroke to even compete two strokes win by default.If a modern 500cc two stroke could race 450's it wouldn't even be close you would see all 500's off the start.
People need to consider these are old two strokes racing new fours.If a modern 500 which don't exist atm raced 450's like I said it wouldn't even be close.
450's match up better with two stroke 250's.....
CC for CC twos are superior engine wise
Don't forget the the ease and affordability of maintaining a two stroke too ! I personally have a 4 stroke and love it, but man they're not cheap to work on.. MrSnapy1
ua-cam.com/video/7d3MtfgMalU/v-deo.html
It's not a *production* 500 cc two stroke, but it is modern. I'd like to see what people say about these.
450>500 lap times. New or old. The 50cc lager 2t loses.
Bradley Thomsen the 450 is a mx bike gets better traction too it’s hard to ride a dirt bike on a small track with stock 70hp ish that’s why they call it the king of the desert
also
dakar/enduro > motocross
put the 500 vs 450 on a enduro race 450 won’t make it stock 500 has more torque and hp to begin with but yea sure it’s faster with average riders 500 is just too fast for mx if you put the best rider mx like Ricky Carmichael, Ryan villopoto on the 500 they’ll beat a 450 but vice versa motocross is all about the rider
You're wrong. YZM400f won a supercross in the 250 class in 1997. And that is exactly 1.6 bigger. That was still before injection. Now with the addition of extra 50 cc and injection no way a 250 cc 2-stroke is a match to a modern 450 (which is still less than 2 times bigger). Are 2-stroke guys really that bad at math?
This was a sick article btw
Loved it. Thanks dudes for the good stuff.
this is an unrealistic comparison and i dont understand why people keep bringing it up. if your intention is to find out which is FASTER, put them both on a dry lake bed and go. but the bikes are so far apart in development. even in a desert bomb run, the suspension and frame tech and development of the kx500 is so far behind the kx450 that the only thing the 500 has going for it is the engine. a realistic comparison would be between a service honda kx500af and a new kx450. that way we arent doing a battle between a bike that has all the latest and greatest of everything, versus a bike that hadnt seen any serious r&d upgrades for many years even before it was discontinued. lets not kid ourselves, a final year kx500 has seldom any differences to that of a 1990 kx500. until they are on the same suspension and frame tech, the only thing worth comparing is the engine. and again, dont kid yourself, you know the 500 is faster, which is a 20 year old design. i agree with destry that the 4 strokes are the way to go. that is of course, if you have the money to fix and maintain it. id be a 4 stroke guy if it wasnt for the cost. i like 250f's more than my 07 cr250, but i was able to rebuild my entire engine with oem parts and a hinson basket for 700$. with a 250f, not a chance.
to this day kx500 bikes still stomp 450s on bomb runs. happens constantly.
as true as that is, unfortunately the bomb run is just a small part of a desert race
I was expecting a side by side comparison not just talking about the bikes. I have an 01 kx500 street plated and its a blast! I say just ride what you enjoy and dont let someone bring you down for riding what you prefer!
I just wish companies would put more research in to 2-stokes! BRP is making killer E-Tec 2-strokes!
2nd that !
+Walter Null They'd be emissioned choked and have no power.
I've been a 2 stroke guy my whole life, and love the rush you get when twisting the throttle on my YZ 490, but a couple years ago I aquired an XR 600, it is so easy to ride, so predictable, that, I'm actually faster on the 4 stroke, and don't get tired nearly as quickly, I love them both, and I realize these are vintage bikes, but there's allot to be said for the smooth 4 stroke power..
It's all ergonomics and suspension.
I like two strokes more and i like older bikes over new bikes. My last bike was a 1986 cr80r and that thing tore up the dirt no complaints.
wouldn't it be better to fit the 500 engine in the 450 frame?
The way that tank and exhaust works is so cool, never ridden the kx500 apparently it's better than the cr? I had a go on one of those and it was a monster!
cr had better ergonomic prefrences generally for moto. kx had the engine. kips. cr500 never got hpp. although the cr motor is righteous as far as i'm concerned, kx has broader pull.
So fix the issue. Put the 500cc in a 450 frame. KX500af
The very last clip of them both o the straight was indeed awesome....
That's the thrill of a two smoke... Freaken uncontrollable the best fun you'll have on a bike seriously.
I love my raptor 660 and it's a 4 stroke and I had a kawasaki 2 stroke but that 4 stroke got my heart it a complete beast
Endorsement of 4 stroke paid for by Kawasaki. The real answer is 2 strokes and Maicos.
Maico needs more and better distribution here.
I agree i love 2 smokes but with the advanced technology the newer bikes have its just a matter of time before we lose the 2 strokes in the dust
He said "4 strokes are the way to go" smh fuck that id take a kx500 or cr500 over any 450 4 stroke any day
agree
4strokes are way easier to ride the power is easy to manage that's why you don't see 2strokes in mx or sx anymore. With that said 2strokes are awesome in the own right. Love the sound the smell everything. For me if im racing I want a 4stroke if im having fun trailing or just practicing 2stroke
todd miley no the reason you don't see them any more is because the technology is outdated
And why do you think the technology is outdated? because 4 strokes came along and because of them being easier to ride power more manageable all the r and d goes into them
Billy loves bongs yea really that's a no brainer lol 4 strokes sux
I decided to try to get into riding dirt bikes because most my family and friends ride, so before i invested i decided to ride my buddys kx450f, in other words not a good idea didn't end well lmao.. Bike ripped out my hands and SMASHED into a fence, but i eventually decided to purchase a crf150. great bike and with the smaller frame easy to handle, i hope one day i can be at the skill level to handle one of these top bikes!!
i just upgraded from a crf150 to a ktm 400. and let me say it is a BEAST! you will be itching for a big bike in no time
Its funny how they compare 2010's technology with 1980's technology in terms of engines.
If someone made a 500 have an exhaust valve and modern style case reed valves and other things, upped the port timing a bit to shift from the low grunt low hp/litre to higher hp there would be no competition. You could always get a programmable ECU and make the powerband smooth if it prevented riding fully.
that's what I have been aggravated about.
I think the 300cc that's King of Enduro right now will best that olden 500cc just as bad as the 450.
Most 2 stroke bikes from 125 and up will have an exhaust valve/s, more usually called a power valve, but it does nothing for the engine except make it run better at low speeds, once open it is just basically not blocking and lowering the exhaust port anymore. It just doesn't sound as cool to call them "exhaust blockers".
The addictive "power band" is the range of revs that the pipe is tuned to by how it is shaped but it is a tiny range where it is most efficient and truly singing it's perfect sound, giving it the greatest "supercharged" effect at the desired rev range that the manufacturers decide.
The term "on the pipe" or in "power band" doesn't really have a recognised definition i don't think, i think of it as the rev range from once the power valve (blocker) has opened until it can't rev anymore, some may be more talking about that peak power perfect tuned pipe sound range??? It doesn't really matter, just opinion.
But there is no ECU on most motocross bikes, if any, because that would usually relate to fuel injection, a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) just controls the ignition timing, some have a throttle position sensor and electric valves to change carburetor richness but even with electrically controlled "power valves" there is nothing the "computer" does more than open or shut it, definitely no magical programmable ECU "smoothing" of the power band.
The reeds or inlet valves basically either work or they don't, whether they are in the crankcase or cylinder matters little, different manufacturers had different styles to do the same thing. As the piston goes up it creates a vacuum in the crankcase, they open to let air in and then seal closed once the piston comes down to compress the crankcase air, the only problem is some don't work as good at high revs if they bounce, apart from that the piston to cylinder determines how good the suck and puff power is.
The port timing is pretty well researched by the manufacturers, it is not like they haven't tried everything and understood more then you can even begin to comprehend. The entire system from carburetor to exhaust size is all a relationship to give a desired result.
As for the different technology, there is a thing called Direct Injection on 2 stroke outboards that could be considered 2010's but as for 4 stroke engines, they are just a two stroke bottom end with a gear on the crankshaft to drive the cam shaft, so nothing new there. The "advancements" in 4 strokes is just making the piston smaller and lighter so it can rev... and go BANGGG$$$$$$ causing maximum damage. No real NASA stuff unfortunately.
EFI on 4 strokes is just a slight increase in efficiency, responsiveness and power but great for $1000 failed fuel pumps, the manufacturers only want 4 strokes for the repair costs, believe it or not, unfortunately most riders are not good enough to go quick on a 2 stroke so they need the help of a 4 stroke to not be slow.
As for the other things ??? you have to list them for me to dispel them.
The battle between teenie boys about which is better is futile, as Destry said in this video, 4 strokes are just plain easier, Stewart said "if you can't beat someone on a 2 stroke when you have a 4 stroke there is something very wrong with you".
Personally i love them both but can't help but worry riding a 450 that it is going to go bang at any moment and be too expensive to justify repairing.
There has been echos of rumours about a DFI 2 stroke motocross bike for years, that is all we need but not likely now, it would be too little too late when soon enough there will be animal electric bikes that will smash everything with a one speed instant power tyre shredder, just need the batteries to advance a bit more and a small Tesla motor.
+The Moon is square that's why I sold my 450 in 3 months of having it new! I call them glass cannons because they were born to crap out fast. Even that 13:1 and beyond compression ratio is very telling and if they're running. Anything short of leaded or white race fuel... it's pre-ignition to failure even faster.
Great post! 😂
The only nice thing I could ever say about a 450 or 4T is that they can engine brake and have a friendly powerband with good torque across it. Beyond that, there's not much to glamorize about the 4T. I think a lot of people get hung up on what the pros are riding. They'll swear by and speak from that angle until the market changes. Then they will buy a 2-Stroke and realize they were dead wrong.
+The Moon is square I first had my doubts when I returned from riding late in the evening for an hour or two and the jug was glowing a soft red glow. Friends though that was cool, but I'm thinking I'm done.
The pipe glowing is normal, but the cylinder isn't anything I've ever seen on my previous 2T bikes. 450 was gone in 2 weeks. That's after the first valve shim check and prior to the first piston job.
The only great power producing 4T that's 100% reliable from my ownership is from the Supersport bikes. That could be an interesting adaptation.
My first mx bike was a brand new 97 cr 500. I loved that bike!!! when you can come out of a corner on the back wheel and hit a big double 20 ft away....it's a kick in the ass! I bought a mint 98 500 in 10' that set a record of 104 mph in 400 ft and won a hill climbing title. I had a 99' modified credit 250 and never liked it..fast but didn't have that raw hp. Take a 500 out in a big pasture and let it eat....best feeling in the world!!!
Basically is is being paid to say he would prefer the KX450.
Basically is is
hu?
Hahaha I literally just said that and agree 100% the kind of fun and excitement you can get from a 2 stroke is crazy insane and I will ride one until I die period!
I make 86k a year....Im doing fine
EvoPortal that's it? I've been making 100k+ since I was 18
I agree Garon. The younger generation likes the AF. My KX-500 is a steel frame and yes the engine loves that frame, I believe.
I don't think they could have rigged this any more than they did. Brand new 4-stroke against a 30 year old 2-stroke. Yeah, wonder what is going to win. Why are the 4-stroke manufacturers still afraid to let equal sized 2-strokes race against their precious 4-strokes if they are so much better?
Simple questions that if the general population of sheep would ask, we wouldn't be having this debate and 2-strokes would still be dominating racing and our sport wouldn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to enjoy.
I've ridden 4-strokes longer than 2-strokes, I'm just not a moron that naively follows what I'm told.
And a beautifully tuned two stroke 500 sounds better too :-) especially in the desert pulling 15-36 gearing, which I had on my CR500 in the 1989 Finke Desert Race. Good for over 170km/h.
Maybe because they are smokey, stinking, and sound like a mosquito with a megaphone? Just tossin' that out there.
Doug Burgoyne First off, that has nothing to do with performance of the vehicles, which is the point of a performance test.
Second, ride a modern 2-strokes running synthetic oil and a SmartCarb. Or better yet, a DI Ski-Doo or Arctic Cat or DI outboard motor. No smoke or smell any more than a 4-stroke.
Only the very small 2-strokes have a mosquito sound, but I'd still take that over the farting 4-strokes. Either way, sound is a lousy argument in this case (except for the fact that noisy 4-strokes have closed many riding areas and MX tracks). Shouldn't performance be the deciding factor? But you'll sit by and let a slower, more expensive alternative kill off 2-strokes because the manufacturers told you they are old-school, and you need the new fad.
Well they had to test it against a 30 year old bike, they aren't made anymore. So how could they have made it equal without using the original kx 500? And you're complaining like 2 strokes are going out of production. Everyone except for Honda still make 2 strokes. Four strokes are easier to ride, use less fuel, have way more low down torque and you do not have to mix fuel. Great stuff!
jesse G123 I think what he meant was that its a pity that the manufacturers stopped development of production competition 2 strokes and pushed towards 4 strokes(blaming it on emissions apparently). As far as I remember Honda started the whole shift towards 4 strokes in the early 70's and then again successfully in the early 2000's. I'm sure all the manufacturers(Japanese and European) are still developing 2 strokes behind the scenes and hopefully we will see them back in production in the next 10 years or so. There's been quite some development on direct injection 2 strokes producing very low emissions and making very very good power. The boating and snowmobile world has used them for quite a while now. I think this test would've been better if they used a more modern like KX500AF against the 450.
Most riders have not completely experienced the extreme instant-on torque of the KX500 because when riding on dirt the rear tire spins. Just a short ride on a KX500 on asphalt and you’ll actually feel the instant-on torque. It’s amazing. This is why it’s a poor choice for riding in tight woods. It’s best for outdoor motocross tracks or desert races. My KX500 is a SuperMoto street bike 😬.
He can't really endorse a 2T while he's getting paid by Kawi . . . they don't make one.
What he was thinking is "Kawi made me switch to 4 strokes(and a 4 speed?), so I have to say they are best." Although there is a hint of him saying 500cc 2 stroke engines could have been developed much more. A moderately modded decades old 500cc(~80rwhp) has much more hp than moderately modded 450s(~55-60rwhp), but there is the traction factor at lower speeds and on packed dirt for the 4 strokes. The ridiculous power of the 500s helps at higher speeds and in loose soil or sand. 500s eat their breakfast in the dunes. 2 strokes still have their place in racing still, professional 4 stroke riding americans that do enduros like Red Bull's in European mountains bring a 2 stroke. Its probably the toughest dirtbike races on earth. 2s and 4s are so different that i ride both about equally to change it up
Two strokes is better, I have a 500 Rm and that bike is just awesome !
i bet that things fuckin scary LOL
I would even be scared at sitting on it in Neutral lol
I got to say ive riden both myself and the 2 stroke was more aggresive in my opinon,in 1989 i bought my first kx 500 the only way to slow this bike down was to use the rear brake,you had to slow the engine down before the bike would slow down it lunged at idle so when you were going into a turn at 60 miles per hour you needed to slow the engine down first before you went into a burm,very challenging but once you mastered this everything else was pure adrenaline,a few weeks later i went out and purchased the kx250 this bike was a bit more managable powerwise but the raw power that 2 stroke 500 produced was unbelievable,im much older now but id get on a kx500 today and like a fish in water go through all the gears full throttle and hang on for dear life !!!!!
The argument about 2 strokes versus 4 strokes comes down to just a couple of facts.2 strokes take just that, 2 strokes to make power and 4 strokes take 4. So no matter what you do the 2 stroke (all things equal) will always make more power per cc than the 4. That being said development on the 2 stroke fell off the earth years ago. Blame CARB, AMA or whatever but nothing has changed in years. If it continued at the same rate (or just AMA allowed the same cc 2 stroke in that class) then things would be different. Take that old dated 500 motor and stuff it in that 450 frame, add some fuel injection and do the test again. Would be a whole different story.
+amanoncrack
Your exactly right. they still make more hp per cc than any 4 stroke though.
+amanoncrack
although they are still great (if not superior ) for enduro and trail riding. just not as long a distance.
Ummm ktm never stopped developing the two stroke but everybody seems to hate them which i dont understand lol
+james dean
they never stopped making them "Developing" is a whole different story.
+james dean
and I love them btw. so has anyone I know that's rode one.
I always enjoyed the stories from the 1980's I hear about two strokes, the versatile engine thrust allows you to virtually hurl the entire bike into the air if the clutch is controlled properly. This is back when materials to make the plastic outer framing and such were much lighter and less durable mind you. My father told me stories countless of times about jumping across barriers and gaps using this technique. Something unmatched by a four stroke engine, usually weighed down a lot more by cruising features...
Is it bad that it's the first time I am hearing of the kx500???
Yes
+Bud Buster Yeah, very. In fact I think that qualifies you for shemale status.
+Bud Buster thats the first time hearing of kx 500........I thought it only went up to 450????????
reagan miller
The fart machine motocross 4 strokes only go to 450, but there are much bigger woods bikes, KTM 520 etc.
+beefcake3131 hahahaha wat about the MAICO 700 MX 82 bhp???? enough i think
another problem the technology has been thrown at the 4 stroke, 2 strokes havent had that input. I ride a fourstroke but given the choice i would pick a modern two-stroke any day. the four stroke has fuel injection and can/is mapped. a to stroke at the best has a powervalve. guys like this grind my gears.
im an old guy and i love the 2 strokes,thats why i still ride one
boss 302 gorie how old what bike
I bought my KX500 in 98, because of this guy.
You can have your tech and smooth runnin machine, gimmi a ear bleedin, ass smokin, powerhouse 2 stroke all day! mix that oil in boys!!!!!!
one four stroke that was a real power house during my desert racing was a KTM SXC 625 what a monster
4 strokes are life
2 smokes are love 2 smokes are life
I love it how everyone is either 2 stroke or 4 stroke but why not like both? there's so many people who just don't adjust and like both the 2 stroke and 4 strokes i mean the 2 bikes are so different to each other but that's what makes them both unique in there own ways :D. 2t and 4t are the best and only the true bike lovers will understand why they are both equally the best :D
2 stroke for
life!
I have owned both 4 strokes and 2 strokes and I love both of them it just comes down to personal preference
I had the KX500 91 model its truly the best bike that I have ever had by far.
the only bike that could out run my cr 500 was a kx 500
a don't forget a KTM it would leave both 💯
Nah am the new KTM sx800 2t coming in 2017 will beat anything!
my ktm 550 would eat your 500 for lunch
+Tucker Thomason The bike you have is almost an enigma, its looks like it was only made in 1996. Honestly I wasn't even aware of it until you mentioned it. Do you know why it was produce in such low numbers?
Before you start insulting how bout you go back to English class and learn some grammar!
Wow that cinematography was better than most of the hollywood action movies.
I'd take 450f over a old ass 500cc smoker, I've ridden my friends kx500 couple times... vibrates like crazy and feels like a tank.... leave that old POS in the past. Modern 450's destroy old 500's. TRUTH.
Why you lying too your self lol Just said a 450 will beat a 500 2stroke lol you must can't ride Even on my mildly ported 250 450s aren't even competition & For the vibration a simple crank balance will take it all away
Dude my 250 would destroy a 450. The 500s are way faster shuck is why they stopped making them cause people are killing themselves on it. 500 blows away that gay ass 450 by a mile
***** MXA Dynos are BS the 2004 Rm250 makes 55hp at the wheels & shits all over the 250sx
dynos dont lie i happpen to own a stock one on different dynos it made an average of 52hp highest being 55 & lowest being 49.5 This bikes eats 450s just as my 250sx does but its a hole lot better in the corners it feels 125 like
nah man put that 500 motor in a new bike good to go
I had a Kx500...1988. Violently fast.I couldn't use in tight woods. Awesome motor.
Sorry that was my brother I love 2 strokes
My step dad had a kx500 when he was sixteen. He was 5'9 and 115lbs.
Big Fan of 4 Strokes, not 2 jokers. The 4 strokes are built for durability.
Have fun with your valvetrain. I have 175 hrs on my cr250 and yet to do a rebuild and when I do its gonna be $150. Just run amsoil synthetic 2 stoke oil.
MrWalkerds and when i rebuild my 450 its gonna be $150-170. i do miss my two stroke but i just feel more at home on my 450, i disagree on what 3DMachines said, i think the realiability and durability of the modern four strokes are the same as the smokers. they both will last
hahahahahah you stupid or just a fool? how is a motor with 10 times the moving parts of a 2t build for durability get your head out of your moms ass and start thinking for your self.
Kippuravittu what was the point of that? you sound like another two smoker fan boy
lol and built to break your pocket
The main determining factor is the advancements in technology. The competition is unbalanced in favor of the 450F because it has modernized amenities like fuel injection, an aluminum frame, updated suspension, and new geometry. I'd like to see a comparison between a 2014 CRF450R and a 2014 CRF450R chassis with a fuel injected 250 2 stroke engine in it. I feel like there is so much more R&D that could go into 2 strokes like fuel injection, direct injection, power valve and port updating. Yamaha, Husky, and KTM need to step up their game
I was a 2 stroke guy for the first 20 years of life (ok, my pre-teen years dont count haha). I always liked the sound and peaky powerband, UNTIL I started riding single speed minibikes! On those, if you dont have torque, youre not going anywhere! If you have tons of torque, you wheelie and hit top speed easily.. its just that simple. Im a 4 stroke guy now, I love the bass'y sound and beefy powerband haha.
Well I had Three Cagiva 500’s and a 1984 Cagiva 125 with no power valve. Power band was a light switch. And the 500’s were heavy and slow handling,sorta like a Honda 650 XL overloaded. But they are fast.
Iv rode a honda 450 4 banger, an yeah it had plenty of kick you butt power, I just can not get away from the 2 strokes though, have cr250r now, it's great, but if I'm being completely open either bike has a punch to it. I think for me the major thing is cost of rebuilding a new 4 stroke vs a older 2 stroke.
With EFI in play, the 4T can be tuned with in minutes with a laptop to the track conditions, Which gives them the advantage. If they could build a true EFI 2T and I mean separate injectors for gas and oil so the computer can lean and richen the mixture through the RPM's rang, the 4T would not have a chance. Even now it takes almost double the CC's of a 4T to out power a 2t. You put a 2T motor into today's bike and then run them side by side. CC to CC see who wins
I'm no pro by any means, but he makes perfect sense. If you're a competitive racer, the newer bike with better suspension and factory support is probably the way to go.
If you're like me and you like cheap maintenance and rebuilds... Go with the older two stroke you'll have just as much fun
(if not more) and save a lot of money.
I raced both a cr500 and a crf450. That 500 had waaaaaay more power but that 450 was faster just because it handled so much better. I'm a 4 stroke guy now but I sure miss the fun of that 500.
Didn’t they use to race 2 strokes with the 4 strokes in motocross? I wish they’d bring that back. I miss that sound. 👍🏼
KTMBRYSONG- Your SX-250 might have 51 HP and my KX-500 only have 55 HP, but the 500 has your 250 on torque. Nothing like a KX or CE-500 coming up on pipe and just letting the front wheel skim across the dirt! Railing a berm. It's an Awesome bike. I Love it!!!!!
Agree that for technical racing where hp does not equate to faster lap times the 450 is the way to go. For insane power and just wanting to go ridiculously fast offroad the 500 is the most fun you can have with your pants on.
I can easily pull down a two stroke and rebuild the engine but can't do it on a 4 stroke. I think the ultimate is a KX 500 motor in a KX 450 Frame!
a steel kx with some careful love is a better package than an aluminum 500. STEEL IS REAL! no some of those beer can frames can work well. its like anything. if you want it to work well you got to polish that turd. hard work and testing is what makes a bike work bitchin. if you like the beer can frame 500s the later service honda 500s were the more dialed ones apparently.
one big difference that ive noticed is in fuel mileage the 450 can go alot further on a gallon and thats why i ride a 300 right now is for the range i get 50 mpg blasting around as fast as i can go
I have a Raptor 350 and an RM 250 2 stroke... The raptor was freekin expensive to repair from bottom to top end... Plus you have to time it and adjust the valves and so forth... My RM from bottom to top was simple and easy and inexpensive !
125's, 250's, 400's 465's, 480's, 490's, 500's, I've owned them all. I'm older now, but in vet class you can ride whatever you want. Pretty much no rules whatsoever. There's always the option of a CR500AF if you want a fair comparison. There's usually a few new 250SX two strokes, I almost bought one...(primo bike with 300 kit), but the class winners are always on modern 450's. Why? simple, tons of power where you really need it...Low to mid range. KX500 has a similar grunt, but too much compression braking entering corners makes the bike prone to stall, (unless you're really good with riding the clutch on every corner). I'm not. 450's also feel safer and more "planted" to me. For pure fun, make mine a two stroke though. Still the bike of choice for FMX. Love messing around in the power band! Part of me wishes it was different, but for modern racing...I'll stick with the 450. Run race gas. My point? Four strokes are only partially gay! HA!
I'll never give up my 2 favorite drit bikes my KX.80 and my KX 500 love them. Prue power of them is amazing. long live 2 stroke....
Are they cheap to maintain? Planning on buying one
I reckon he's pretty bang on here. I personally prefer riding a 500 over any modern bike 👍
It's an interesting debate, but the answer depends mostly on your skill level. The type of terrain and the nature of the power delivery also factor in. I have a great deal of experience racing two strokes of all sizes and can tell you for sure that the big ones are a handful. At a race pace, they are physically and mentally tiring If your technique is not perfect. Plus they destroy rear tires very quickly if you get a little too happy with the gas.
I like 2 stroke for racing and 4 stroke for the mountains and off-roading
Great vid. Got right to it and had a credible source. Thanks!
You all seem to have forgotten the golden rule of this sport....... It's the rider not the bike. 80% rider 20% bike
People want to debate which is more powerful, but one fact can't be argued. If you want to race a 2 stroke against a 4 stroke in the SX or MX, you'll have to ride a 250 against the 450. I know it was mainly set up that way to promote 4 stroke development, but it was also because a 2 stroke develop more power. Remember there was a time not too long ago when they did race side by side and the 2 strokes held their own against the larger-bore 4 strokes. If the manufactures had kept developing the 2 strokes, they would still be winning.
2 stroke top end rebuild VS 4 stroke top end rebuild? Discuss.
Unless you're getting a new bike every season, 2 stroke seams to have much less work involved. (I ride a wr250f and a kdx200)