Ancient Sparta Historian Breaks Down '300' Movie | Deep Dives
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- Ancient Greek historian Roel Konijnendijk takes a deep dive into the historical accuracy of one of the most iconic and ridiculous depictions of the Spartans - '300' (2006).
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00:00 Introduction
00:33 Spartan Society and Customs
02:34 Xerxes’ Messenger
06:56 The Ephors, the Oracle and the Carneia
10:30 The 300
15:39 The Persian Fleet
16:14 Thermopylae, the ‘Hot Gates’
17:17 Spartan Battle Technique
19:12 The Persian Army
24:42 Xerxes
28:28 Ephialtes
32:01 Dilios - Why Did the Spartans Stay?
34:18 The Final Stand
38:44 Aftermath of Thermopylae and Delios
40:53 Movie Quotes: Fact or Fiction?
This guy needs his own youtube channel at this point
Yes please. I rewatch his videos all the time. Fascinating and so many ditches
He should call it "diggin' ditches"
He should call it "diggin' ditches"!
i like so too, still not sure if there is a too much about a good thing. if he has the material, sure bring them on, or some recordings of lectures.
Hes picking on a graphic novel for Christ's sake...not the encyclopedia brittanica....this guy should chill out and realise that
Q: How do i win ancient battles?
A: Dig ditches
Q: How many?
A: Yes.
And when you thought you had dug enough ditches, dig a lot more.
"Where's your ditch?" 😄
Honestly, I dont really understand how Europe isn't just one big ditch.
"They're just...going around, sir"
"But.....the ditches"
"Just going around, sir"
@@Marauder99991 we tryed. got half way from the North sea to the alps. maybe next time.
Another famous pithy Spartan response was when Philip of Macedon sent a message to the Spartan army in 345BCE saying: "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."
The Spartans sent back a one-word reply: "If"
Admittedly that story is a lot cooler if you leave out the second part of it where Philip of Macedon did *exactly* what he said he was going to do and gave the Spartans such a brutal pummelling that they never really recovered from it.
A few years later, when Alexander and the bulk of the Macedonian army are away conquering Persia, the Spartans try to rise up again. And the Macedonian general left behind to mind the store crushed them again in a matter of months.
@@digitaljanus And Alexander referred to it as a "clash of mice," because he was off fighting a real war and couldn't be bothered to care what the children back in Greece were doing.
And people try to argue because Sparta wasn’t destroyed or fully conquered it showed they were badass. When really Sparta wasn’t really a big prize and Phillip didn’t see it worth the fight so instead destroyed most there lands and took there territory
I kind of like this new angle on the "Come and get them" and "If" replies where instead of badass defiance it's just a pithier version of fucking around before finding out lol
@@TheZombifiedGuy It's even worse than that. Before Philip came down and ravaged the Spartan countryside, Sparta was pummeled by Thebes who was capably led by two generals. But the Theban - Spartan War cost both sides so much. Once that was over, that was when Philip invaded.
"I have no idea what Frank Miller was snorting when he came up with this."
Gave me a good giggle.
Just another super hero movie disguised into a story happened in history. which is false
@@MarcFun Tell me: what part of 300 suggests that it's trying to be an accurate historical film? Was it the Xerxes being seven foot tall? Was it the literal giant with huge blades for hands? Was it the goat man?
@@Cailus3542 I am always surprised people think there was any attempt to make this a historical account - the story in the comic/movie is told as a pre-battle propaganda piece by one spartan to hype up his comrades for the next battle XD
Analyzing 300 without keeping that in mind is a bit of a miss. Still I love listening to Roel Konijnendijk simply to get more historical details :)
@@Cailus3542
The historic setting. The names of countries and people. The weapons, the clothes... Lots of things suggested that this is based on a historic event. Not knowing much about that event, the average viewer has no idea what apart from the fantastical aspect would be historically accurate or what wouldn't.
@@erih2934 Yeah I was kind of surprised he didn't pick up on that, even if you somehow miss the ending to connect the dots, the narrator (Dilios) regularly gives away how allegorical and embellished his storytelling is, like when he refers to the Persian's using incendiary weapons (fire pots) as "magic".
48 minutes with dr. Konijnendijk? Heck yes, please.
I think you mean the *DITCH* *DIGGER*
He is a legend
He is a leg
Google offered to translate your message to English! 🤣
@@ctakitimu Wonderful :DD
You've shown half the film here. The editor is a madman.
Madness???….. THIS IS SPARTA!!!
Considering that if we remove slow-mo scenes the movie gets half of its feature length, the official Ditch guy has reacted to the whole movie.
@jammysmears4077
Yeah! (Re)Spoiler alert!...about an 18 year old movie about a thousand year old conflict that we know the end of...but still!
@@fernandoaugustoribeiro3288somebody actually did this, the movie only got 6 or 8 minutes shorter
The best kind of madman. Giving us as much as possible of what we wanted.
It's amazing that Robert Pattinson is so well versed in history.
I see where the confusion is. That's not Robert Pattinson. That's Edward Cullen. They selected Robert Pattinson to play Edward Cullen because of the likeness. Edward Cullen is very well versed in history because of the thousands of high school classes he has attended.
@@matthewbrown5228 Come on. That's Cedward.
"I don't think Persians would make very good mortar"
😂😂
acktshually Apparently adding blood makes better cement :)
Roel was also a part-time standup comedian in college, which explains a lot LOL
Really? God that makes so much sense
Please tell me this is real
Tell us more!
Oh God tell us more about this!
Sadly this is not true, I just participated in Bright Club during the final year of my PhD
ua-cam.com/video/0S7oi1Xn59c/v-deo.html
We need Dr. Ditch videos at least weekly.
Dear Dr. Roel, can you PLEASE look at the fact that this video is online since 3hrs and already got 15.000views.
And most if not all of us are here for our favorite, kind and knowledgeable Ditch-guy. ❤❤❤
Please either do more of those videos or please upload more of your lectures, which by now, I am certainly not the only one who knows them by heart.
Pretty please?
I promise to build an extra ditch in front of my appartment's ditch.
Favorite, kinda and knowledgeable? You forgot to add funny and lighthearted. :)
Also, I'm going on a limb here, but I guess your existing apartment ditch wasn't there before you started watching Dr. Konijnendijk? 😄
@@NixHarpinger You are absolutely right,- I indeed forgot funny, lighthearted and witty, too.
And also, yes, my existing appartment ditch was dutifully dug after Dr.Roel enlightened me in two famous movie reviews about the necessity of having a ditch,- even though, he admittedly mentioned that he wasnt entirely sure whether a ditch and a second ditch would actually work that well when facing the massive horde of undead ice zombies of the Night King. But,- as he recommended I made sure to place my trebuchets not outside my ditch perimeter to make up for the zombie issue.
Do you think, he will read our comments and realize that our common dedication to ditches in general and ditching everything as soon as we see his videos, will entice him to take part in more videos or even upload his lectures, so we can follow along?
Maybe we could petition for a Patreon? Might be an idea, dont you think?
@@nachtschatten8710 We'll have to go with Patreon as the chance of him reading this are near zero.
Maybe let's also make another petition to have mandatory education for Hollywood producers that artillery does indeed go behind the line and skirmishers actually go *in front* of the battle-line.
You don't want to accidentally hit your fellow soldiers in the back and lobbed arrows are very inaccurate and actually lose a lot of kinetic energy traveling up, fighting gravity. But Hollywood just doesn't get tired of arrows flying in long arches (while also on fire).
In all seriousness tho, I don't see him being a full UA-camr, it would seem he likes his job more than some YT likes, but it would be cool to have some more dedicated content from our favorite Dutch Ditch Guy. Like you said, they can be lectures and other historical dives, not just movie reactions.
Never realised Michael Fasbender was in this movie lol.
Also McNutty...did not recognize him he was so tan here lmao
Yeah it's like "Blackhawk Down" where every time I watch it I notice another actor and think "he was in this? How didn't I realize that?"
The casting for that movie was _wild_ in retrospect
@@PeterTeal77 Yeah or Band of Brothers. Every time I watch that series I see another actor who made a breakthrough later.
I also forgot that Cersei was Gorgo lol
"I had no idea what Frank Miller was snorting when he did this...."
Ohhhh, you sweet summer child.
He's a University professor. I'm sure he can imagine what Miller was on...
i laughed out loud when he said that.
I was chuckling before, but this line absolutely killed me.
@@HiveFleetUlfang1 I think they were more implying that Roel probably didn't realize how accurate his joke about "what he was snorting" actually was lol
Frank Miller notoriously did a shitload of cocaine when he wrote this lmao
@@Batchall_Accepted And university professors (and a lot of academics of various stripes) have been known to take said extra-curriculars, so I believe the commenter was making a pithy remark about Roel's likely knowledge of this.
I'm only in the beginning of the video and already cackling over the "Until like later that day" line.
Dude has a really awesome dry wit.
You can imagine it as the narrator saying "A spartan was taken from his home" and then a SpongeBob title card with that French accent voice: "later that day" as the boy comes back home for dinner.
It's no surprize Leonidas was betrayed.
Ephialtes apparently couldn't have stood his disregard to trenches.
I see a Roel video, I watch a Roel video.
Legend states that "300" refers to the number of ditches dug by the Spartans.
Never heard that.
@@xScooterAZx its a joke
😂The Persians weren't prepared to do a steeplechase!
@@A0A4ful 🤣
@@TheGrumbliestPuppy Ahh
I love Roel, but I always feel bad that he's having to critique mostly movies that are obviously ahistorical. He deserves a historically accurate movie to break down
A documentary, the Cleopatra "My grandmother told me..."
Unfortunately those types of films are few and far between. On the first Insider video, however, I think he comments that Alexander got close to being correct as they had an Oxford professor advising on it.
CinemaSins NEEDS to hire Roel.
@@timothytinsumli8098 cinemaSins needs to stop existing.
@@luvahadowsdolls hell yeah a full Alexander movie breakdown by Roel? That would be a dream
“I have no idea what Frank Miller was snorting, when he came up with this….”
Kinda explains the whole movie tbh lol
It's an action movie based of a graphic novel never once did Frank Miller say the graphic novel was historical accurate
The comic is not as OTT as the film.
Man I could listen to Roel talk about this kind of stuff for years straight....
"War Rhinos are not a thing"
- Roel Konijnendijk, 2024
In Wakanda, maybe ;)
My favorite line, "I don't think Persians would make very good mortar"
Rhinos have poor eyesight and low intelligence.
There is a video of a Rhino trying to defend her calf from Hyenas.... she charged her own calf by mistake and sent it to oblivion. I guess they can't be trained for battles, but still cool to see because they are magnificent.
To sum up
“I don’t know what Frank Miller was snorting”
Neither do we 🤣
@@valeforyoru well duh, it they had high intelligence they wouldn't go to war
I see a video with this guy, I get my ‘build more ditches’ T-shirt ready and click play.
Dude, I built a ditch...from which I watched this video.
We should have t shirts: Dig Ditch Throw Stones.
There are t-shirts? (Googling intensifies)
@@chengkuoklee5734 Boil water; costs you nothing.
@@chengkuoklee5734Or tshirts with an embroidered shovel on the front upper side, and on the back in big letters "WHERE IS YOUR DITCH?"!
Is someone able to make these? Or maybe we can ask the University of Oxford where Dr. Roel works to make it official department merch? Trust me, their admission numbers would skyrocket if they did this!
This could've lasted 3 hours and I would've watch it till the end
After you build a ditch...you build another...on a serious note this guy is very informative
Spartans lose not because they were outnumbered but because they didn't dig ditches 😢
But, you gotta admit, they built at least one wall.
@@Pan_BlazejYeah, but as Dr.Roel stated... "Persians dont make up good mortar." so, they had better dug a ditch
They were not loose. Their formations were tight. But they did lose the battle.
They did build a wall, though, and a wall is just a ditch that goes up instead of down.
Lose
A near hour long video of this man talking. 1000% down for it. Loved it.
Oh yeah, then there's the whole "free men stood against a tyrant" line. Like, the ratio of the population of Sparta of citizens and slaves was overwhelmingly slaves. There were way more slaves than citizens and, whether it was taken from the graphic novel or Snyder wrote the line himself, the idea that the Spartan society is a society of "free men" fighting against "a tyrant" is so shamefully laughable it's insane.
Yeah... kind of echoes the whole "slaveowners who wanted to be free" vibe of the declaration of independence
Come to think of it, this film could easily be about the Athenians instead, like the sequel. Athens was hardly "free" as we would describe it in 2024, but they were a heck of a lot closer than Sparta.
And every year, Sparta declared war on its slaves. To give a legal (and religious) reason for keeping its slaves in slavery.
Yeah but I suppose to him the only actual Spartans _were_ citizens so it's _technically_ true in his eyes (kinda fun to see the "no true Scotsman" fallacy being committed over a thousand years before Scotland even existed :).
@@TheZombifiedGuy reading your comments makes it clear how absolutely clueless you are.
We're just getting blessed at this point by his presence on youtube
Every time the movie actually gets something semi-historically accurate I'm pleasantly surprised lol
I am surprised how many things were actually correct. I thought it was total fictional.
@@TheYogesh7777 It actually deserves a lot of credit for at least getting the main story across. Honestly a lot of the silly stuff in it at least is based on some sort of history. Obviously its a fantasy blockbuster movie with ridiculousness in it, but it also is clearly not trying to be 100% historically accurate with monsters and such etc.. Its a really interesting battle and point in history which I would not have looked up and read about if not for this movie!
The ancient historical accounts of this battle are legendary for their iconic quotes, some of which I believe appear in the movie, perhaps most famously when Xerxes demanded Leonidas and his men lay down their weapons, to which Leonidas replied, "Molon labe"..."come and take them". At a similar encounter, a Persian emissary threatened "our arrows will block out the sun", to which a lieutenant of Leonidas replied, "so much the better, then we will have our battle in the shade."
My personal favorite, however, is when Leonidas was marching off to battle, Gorgo asked him what she should do if he doesn't return. Leonidas said, "Marry a good man and have good children." And she did, by all accounts, becoming a very prominent figure in Spartan society.
These quotes are all fanciful inventions of these ancient chroniclers, but are a big part of why these events have so captivated our imagination. These ancient "historians" were master storytellers.
@@TheYogesh7777 thats because it is, its based on a graphic novel that is told by a spartan, it was never meant to be accurate. At the end of the movie when he is giving that speech he is telling them all the story in a glorified way to get them pumped
When I heard the double-flute was accurate I was stoked.
"I got 99 problems but a DITCH aint one."
Missed an opportunity to use 300 instead of 99.
underrated comment 🙌👌
On the note of historical inaccuracy, it's fun that the Persian messenger was played by a guy who would later play the role of Oenomaus, who was a Gaul.
One hundred points for the proper pronunciation of "Darius."
Me: Hey I think I'm gonna attend Lincoln College Oxford
Society: Cool, to study at a prestigious school?
Me: No, to listen to Roel Konijnendijk PhD about digging ditches
As much as i love 300 it’s essentially Greek Braveheart.
Honestly the story of the “300” really needs its own “outlaw king” where it’s essentially the same story/historical period but it’s more grounded in the real history.
The only other piece of media to even remotely tackle the story of the 300 Spartans and the battle of Thermopylae was Assasins creed Oddessy and it is just as Accurate as 300 is.
@@MichalKaczorowski On what Greek propaganda? Frank Miller invented a lot of these depictions from thin air. Most of it is not based on any actual greek propaganda that we know of.
@@dormikdelronExactly. Herodotus doesn't present the Persians in this way, he shows through his work a fascination and respect for Persian history so "is just Greek propaganda" isn't an accurate argument.
Exactly. I am literally reading Tom Holland's excellent translation of The Histories and one thing that stands out, actually, is Herodotus' admiration for the Persians
@@MichalKaczorowskiand yet it’s the only film out there that actually depicts the events of the Persian Greek war literally no one else has since,
@@MichalKaczorowski I don't even think it would even be Greek propaganda given how anglicized Sparta is in the movie.
Poor Roel! He's exhausted correcting everything 😂😂
I remember studying ancient history at uni and we covered the ancient world in film. I did NOT realise how many oriental tropes this film had as a young boy
Shout out to Orientalism by Ed Said
Someone needs to make a historically authentic movie about Thermopylae and hire Roel as historical advisor.
Exactly, ever since I saw his first video I always ask myself why don’t these movies and tv shows hire guys like him? There is no way being more accurate would mean less cinematic
History isn't as cool or plot willing always,there's a reason why they don't do it
If they did it would be boring as hell. If they actually did that then the movie would bomb cause actual history isn't as exciting as Hollywood makes it out to be. Are there cool moments? Absolutely but not like the movies portray stuff
Because it would usually only interest history dorks like us. Just look how popular this ridiculous movie was. I was so excited to see this in theaters and can't explain how disappointed I was.
Yes! He will have the Spartans dig 8000 ditches (including up the mountains and under the sea) and when the Persians attack, the song played will be Dragula with the lyric " Dig through the ditches and burn through the witches" on loop.
Dr. Konijnedijk is always an instant click on the Video for me. Thanks for having him again. Back to digging more ditches !
Hehe, same here. As soon as I saw that it was him in the thumbnail, I dropped whatever else I originally wanted to watch. Dr.Roel is historical click bait!
The 'Long War' series by Christian Cameron is a great historical fiction for those interested in the Persian Wars.
I just love listening to Roel talk about history
The Flintstones: How accurate is it?
The Scottish spartan accent is biblically accurate
Give us more of Roel deepdives!
ANOTHER new video featuring Dr. Dig-a-Ditch? My morning just improved drastically!
Ditchman: The Chronicles
Taking signatures to petition Dr. Ditch to have his own channel here 👇🖋️📜
I absolutely loved this deep dive. More please!
Despite a serious lack of ditches, this guy remains my favourite of all the history experts that pop up on these channels.
Ah, fijn. Roel heeft er verstand van! Go Roel, you rule!
In tabletop RPGs, skimpy female adventurer outfits are often called "distract-the-monsters armor". This Spartan army in "300" is obviously wearing "distract-the-Persians" armor. ;)
Honestly, the skimpy Spartans is about the only thing I think this movie got totally right. The ancient greeks would've been all over it lol
Maybe they could've been just a bit more lubed up in olive oil? But other than that, perfectly captures the spirit
i LOVE your review videos, professor K!
Absolutely loved this, Roel is fantastic as always.
Dug one ditch then another ditch then somebody said to me, "Why you babysitting, only 2 or 3 ditches? I can show you how to turn a notch..."
Give us more of this guy please we love the Ditch guy
That was really interesting. More of this please
The timing of this film coming out at the height of the Iraq War, its depiction of heroic, strong, independent, manly Western Greeks valiantly sacrificing themselves in heroic battle against effete orientalized subjects of a tyrant who relies upon superstition and terrorist brute force---the Government couldn't have cooked up better propaganda. I don't even think Frank Miller was TRYING to do that, but fundamentally that's what this is.
I forgot how fascist this movie is...Homophobia? Strong, incorruptible men against Asiatic hordes? Might makes right? Survival of the fittest? People who are disabled/disfigured are inherently evil? JFC the only thing missing was some happy merchant rubbing his hands together while convincing brown people to shout "God is great!" and blow up a school bus lmao 🤣
I’ve been looking for this comment lol. It couldn’t be any more obvious
During the occupation, which makes the coalition forces the defending faction in the attempted retake of Baghdad by "insurgents" in 06, the year 300 was released.
The 300 comic book and movie is definitively a response to the War of Terror.
I've always thought, mind you, that you could easily make a movie where the Persian Empire (the Achaemenid Dynasty, to be precise) is the stand-in for the United States and the Greek city-states are the stand-ins for countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.
@@Colesign Didn't the comic book come out 3 years *_before_* the War on Terror? The comic book at least was just Frank Miller being his usual homophobic, racist self.
Now *"HOLY TERROR"* from 2011...? Yeah, that 100% *_is_* Frank Miller's response to the War on Terror, and Frank was extremely pro-War on Terror at the time. "Holy Terror" was originally meant to be Batman vs. Al Qaeda, but Miller wanted the hero to be far more kill-crazy than Batman, so he invented a new character called The Fixer to inflict torture and mass-murder on all the brown people Frank thought were coming to get him.
Thank you, great video )
Very informative and entertaining video
I love the part where he actually said about those quotes being delivered by mail and not spoken :) Really good break down! Thank you Mr Roel Konijnendijk
This movie has very big "made relatively soon after 9/11" vibes
Yep...
Sure lets just forget how its from 1998 comic book.
@@jerry12314 Not like there wasn't ample American involvement prior to 9/11 in the Middle East right?
Not like the timing of this film as soldiers were being deployed to Iraq was a factor right?
Stay quiet, adults are speaking.
@@jerry12314 I said "movie".
@@naan-jf9gh What's that got to do with 300? The movie was scene-by-scene word for word from the comics in 1998.
Thoroughly enjoyed that, quality stuff.
i just love this guy..
An interesting review. You're enthusiastic but sober, unlike a lot of reviewers.
Time to dig in
For this breakdown
why do i have such a huge crush on this man? sigh
hey get in line pal
You aren't alone honey 😂
Perhaps because you have a ditch fetish?
No idea but you arent alone in that. 😂😅
Cuz he's a ditch expert?
That was better than the film! Absolutely fascinating. Thank you!
This video is insane. Thank you
I’d listen to dude tell me how grass grew differently back then because ditches were dug deeper and the roots got deeper or something.
Love bro, fantastic video and I’m so damned thrilled to see homie popping up more often. Dude does need a dedicated channel fasho
In the movie Gladiator's opening battle scene, the trees aren't historically accurate (I'm not joking). Homogeneous forests in Europe weren't a thing until the late 1800s when reforestation efforts were made to grow more lumber after forests were clear cut and overexploited. That opening scene taking place in 180 AD should have featured all kinds of different trees and plants, not just the firs shown in the film.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if this guy knew about what kind of grasses were growing in ancient Greece lmao
If i recall, hitorically king Leonidas was an old man. Near the official retirement age like 60, he still went and fought and died in battle.
55yo Leonidas would kick any modern (2024) average man of 20-40yo.
An average 40yo man from 1940 fighting an average 40yo man from 2024, the 40yo from 1940 kicks the 2024 guy's ass!
@@malakaspawt3190 yep, spear and shield vs gun
@@terrycruise-zd5tw I meant with no weapons in hand-to-hand combat.
@@malakaspawt3190I never that much thought to his health and fitness in regards to his age in spartan times vs now. He probably would've looked phenomenal knowing how fit and well fed the Spartans were at this junction
As a Persian I’ll forgive this exactly because of what frank miller was snorting
@@hosseinnoor392 always glad to meet a true immortal from the days when Persia still existed.
Love this!!! NEED so much more of these from this genius man!!
Roel: I specialize in ...
me: DITCHES!!
Roel: Greek warfare and Sparta.
me: 😮
Really enjoy the history with this guy
I would like to see him go over the 2nd movie as well.
He explains things very well and is easy to listen too, hope to see him more often in the near future.
I learn so much every time I watch a video with this man in it. I know the answer to every warfare situation is to dig a ditch and that Spartans were jobless yet very athletic and sassy.
All mouth and (literally) no trousers.
History hit is awesome and we like this guy
Pedantic tvvat
@@hissingsidll750You? Maybe. Dr.Roel? NEVER EVER. 😅 He is awesome.
We need more Konijnendijk!
Really enjoyed this. More please.
"Spartans!! What is your profession?!!"
Inaccurate as it may be, it's still one of my favorite moments of the film.
I am a simple guy i see the ditchman i click
Best War Historian Ever
This was such an enjoyable watch
Now I want him to talk about "Alatriste", not many people give that movie a lot of credit and it's a masterpiece!
This guy is awesome
Love it. Now we need him to break down Alexander.
On behalf of all history buffs: “don’t ditch this guy; he Roels.”
I really like Roel, partly because of his delightfully smug attitude, so his first sigh at the baby myth is an excellent way of getting things started. 😊 Love seeing such an elaborate deep dive!!
So they didn't fight in slow motion back then....
Hum. You learn something new every day...
You have to remember, the entire movie is basically a campfire retelling of the battle by Dilios, prior to the battle of Plataea. It's in-universe propaganda, basically. That's why the Persians, especially the Immortals, are depicted as so monstrous.
That’s a really good point. That definitely explains the half goat playing the flute in Xerxes tent.
Exactly it is an exploration of myth building.
Yep, this exactly what I had to explain to large numbers of Iranians (Persians) a year or so after the release of 300. Back then, I used to create themes for the Firefox browser and made one called, 300, in the style of this film, which was very popular worldwide. Well, not so popular in Iran, I admit.
I've always found this a really unsatisfactory excuse. After all, the story that we actually have of Thermopylai in the ancient sources ALREADY IS the Spartan propaganda story. Practically everything we know about this battle reflects how the Spartans wanted people to remember it. The movie is many orders of magnitude more extreme and ridiculous than the Spartan propaganda we know.
If it is about the creation of a Spartan mythology, why is none of the mythology proffered actually relevant to Sparta or the way they actually lived? It seems more like "western civilization" myth building for a modern society that had just invaded part of the old Persian world
21:05 - "I have no idea what Frank Miller was snorting when he came up with this".
HE'S BACK YESSSS
I love this guy. I think he is so unique and entertaining because you can see how interested and in love he is with his subject, and that intrinsic motivation is contagious. For me at least.
I could watch him speak on Ancient Greek history all day long. Seriously...where is his youtube channel??
He doesnt have one. 😢 Only those fortunates who study at his university get to listen to him all the time,- which I find is a shame as even his lectures arent all uploaded. We clearly need more Dr.Roel
Yaay my favorite Historian is back !! ❤❤
Oh, thank you for that. It definitely made me laugh!
Every time I've heard a historian talk about this film I'm amazed by how much of it is actually real. I assumed the whole thing was made up when I saw it....
As a iranian I would like to add some things to this the first and most important is the Persians were famous for being merciful Syrus the great is the oldest known in history that created human rights ( syrus cylinder) so the fact that they show Persians as this barbaric kings and generals is just disrespectful second thing is about the immortals they were called immortals beacuse they looked similar to each other when one died in the field one other person took the others place so in the fight it looked like their not dying atleast what our history books said the last thing is persian cavalry is exactly very old and was a persian version of the cataphract it so basically the cataphract which was a roman was romes response to the persian caverly.
I also like to add one last thing Persians were zerastrians (spelling might be off) the 3 most famous qoutes of ahora mazda was say no evil do no evil hear no evil
I heard some Iranians saying the word " immortal " is in fact wrong, they were called something more similiar to " companions " like the Macedonian cavalry, but no idea whats correct. Persians were indeed famous for being merciful with human rights, and should have much credit for it.
But they were also a global expanding empired who waged war all over the known world, so Persians being the " bad guy " in some movies is just normal, just like the Brittish empire, Romans etc. Also many people revolted against them, Egyptians were treated very poorly for example which lead to one of the many uprisings that happend.
@@jimmyandersson9938 I've heard that also but in our history books they are called az "javidan" as in never dying or immortal but I know what your saying it's very uncommon
The elite Persian force was called "immortals" because they replaced the dead soldiers as soon as they could,so the force had always the same number of soldiers,so they were typically "immortals"
As an Iranian you may have been presented with a somewhat whitewashed version Persian history when you were raised.
The Persian’s granted more autonomy than other empires of their era to those who surrendered to them, but those who resisted (i.e. tried to maintain their independence/freedom) were still colonised, massacred and enslaved. They may have been more lenient to the people who accepted subjugation, but they were just as brutal as others to those who defended themselves from Persian imperialism.
People would probably be less inclined to show ancient Persian kings and generals as barbaric if their ancestors hadn’t been attacked and enslaved by them. This is a stylized depiction of a fairly barbaric slave-empire (even if others at the time were barbaric too by modern standards).
21:06 "I've no idea what Frank Miller was snorting!"
Now, we know.
How Frank Miller wrote and drew '300', and how the movie was made too, by Zack Snyder.
This was awesome. Also I love how he talk about something and quotes who said it an when. It's not the same to hear someone talk about something they are contemporary to, than someone that is telling a story that happened hundreds of years before. I am going to read up on my Herodotus and Plutarch. 😁👍