Mythology Expert Reviews Greek & Roman Mythology in Movies (Part 1) | Vanity Fair
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2024
- Peter Meineck, Professor of Classics in the Modern World at New York University, reviews Greek and Roman mythology scenes from films including '300,' 'Clash of the Titans,' 'Black Panther,' 'O Brother, Where Art Thou?,' 'Wonder Woman' and 'Hercules.'
00:00 Intro
00:10 '300'
05:59 'Clash of the Titans'
08:47 'Black Panther'
14:45 'O Brother, Where Art Thou?'
17:43 'Wonder Woman'
21:54 'Hercules'
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Mythology Expert Reviews Greek & Roman Mythology in Movies (Part 1) | Vanity Fair - Фільми й анімація
“Great bisexual army” 😭 never thought I’d hear that statement ever
@Seanus Patricus Why do you think it's untrue
@Seanus Patricus check this guy out, he thinks he is more informed than an actual professor of classics. Anonimity on the Internet really is a heady drug, huh?
"serious scholar" .....
Then you never heard of Thebes sacred band which was made of 150 male couples
@Seanus Patricus Any sources? If you claim something please provide evidence
“Spartan soldiers were very much into each other”
An excellent choice of words
Hades is so misunderstood - only Greek god who ever did his job; didn't impregnate a bunch of chicks, was in fact faithful to his wife that he loved (that the other gods had to shift the cosmos to make that romance happen), and actually ferried souls, etc. He's really not a bad dude.
Same with the Devil in the Bible. Lucifer isn't the bad guy of that story...only the antagonist. Those aren't the same things.
Not quite faithful, he did have an affair with Menthe. But very misunderstood nowadays; he was not evil. And he didn't trick Persephone; every woman of that culture knew that a man offering her a pomegranate was a marriage proposal, like now if a man were to kneel and hold up a ring.
@@that_heretic Very well said.
@@that_heretic Uh, Satan attacked God (a very dumb plan to those who know the being) out of jealousy over not being the best thing to exist. When he failed, immediately began to attack God's favorite creation out of spite, twisting the being into the most self-destructive animal imaginable. Satan is a villain. He does everything we imagine of villains and worse.
It's best to not associate Hades and Satan at all. Hades is effectively an immortal human who tends to dead souls. Satan is a spiteful, violent being dedicated to deception and corruption in all forms.
Hades and Madusa is misunderstood.
It's funny how Sparta has become this idealized place in modern times because it fully would have suuuuuuucked to live there haha. I remember in one of my college classes on ancient Greece some classmate asked if there is a modern equivalent of Sparta and the professor spent the next 10 min or so breaking down how, yes, there is a modern equivalent and it's called North Korea. lol
It's the same thing with Vikings. One of the most tolerant societies with extensive freedoms and rights of women is now idealized as some kind of ultra-matcho utopia.
Actually the spartan women had more rights than the athenian democratic women, and they were more respected
Never forget all the slaves that actually made Sparta function.
😂😂😂
The funniest thing is that 9/10 people who think "Yeah, I would have been a badass Spartan!" probably would have died during the Agoge and never made it to adulthood :P
I took a class with him when I was at NYU. To this day, still one of my favorite classes. He invests a lot of time with his students. He took on a trip to Barnes and nobles to teach us how to pick our translations. He also took us to the met and taught us how to read the ancient pottery. And he had a theater company and we went and saw them perform Promethus Unbound. He even brought in masks one day and taught us how people used to perform the ancient Greek plays with masks on. He was a really awesome teacher.
Awesome!
I live in New York City and am a student myself and know the importance of both intelligent and charismatic teachers.
How do you pick a good translation - any tips?
im not gonna criticize an ancient culture because mythological takes were off by modern standards... i do however do love their creativity in the universe so theres that
Don't care rich boy
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 do u go to nyu too ?
I took Professor Meineck's class on Performing Homer in college. And then I took it again, just because who wouldn't want to listen to him talk for an entire year? In one lecture he announced that cheesemaking was "the ultimate example of human-animal symbiosis," and I've thought of that probably every week since.
"Blessed are the cheese makers" Monty Python!
Would you have a source or an article that he possibly wrote ? that would interest me !
And you never noticed he does not know what he's talking about. This is what is known in the trade as the Dr Fox effect.
@@DrWhom That's actually interesting, if true. You mean his compelling "storytelling skills" and charisma (or whatever) are substituting an accurate interpretation / real insight into this subject?
Now I will too! Thank you for sharing that!
Peter Mienick- love his disclaimer at the end, where he basically says that mythology is STILL alive and changing, and that is good. I used to teach a high school mythology class, and I always enjoyed teaching what I'd learned, but also suggesting ways in which those myths might be represented today and how they might have changed without losing validity.
I took one of his classes at NYU and I loved his class. It was engaging and he really cared about his students. He brought masks in one day and he allowed us to use them. Often times classes about the classics can be very book heavy and boring but he made it so much fun! Amazing teacher!
He sounds like a beta
@@shrekster3990 and you have a beta nick
In Wonder Woman, the enmity between the Amazons and Ares is somewhat ironic, because in mythology Ares seems to have been a major patron of the Amazons. The Amazon queens Hippolyta and Penthesileia were daughters of Ares.
Wish they'd explored that in the second movie, rather than ruining the impact and strength of the first.
I just want an explanation on how he killed all the gods. how did he kill Heracles or Athena?
Yeah, whenever I watch WW I always get bothered by that.
We may prove a trend of Black Panther and Wonder Woman writers ripping each other off. How far back does that date?
@@alm2187 What does Black Panther have to do with any of this? I'm not even sure why the expert talked about it. It has nothing to do with Greek Mythology, and in the film, Wakanda is clearly in central Africa, nowhere close to the Mediterranean.
Would love to hear his thoughts on "Troy" the movie, and how that fits in with other interpretations of Achillies and Petrocles
I hear they were roommates.
@@MoxHex they. Were. *_Roomates_* .
Patroclus
I'm pretty sure the original texts were actually unclear on their relationship. Later telling's had them as lovers, and then not again, based on what was the social norm at the time.
@@KS-xk2so Yes, the original Odyssey never explicitly describes them as lovers, but it does describe them as extremely close. It’s not a stretch to imagine they were lovers, was quite common and accepted in Ancient Greece.
This professor has given one of the best two part mini series of classical cultures and mythology I’ve seen this year. His review of 300 and the irony of how it’s often received vs the historical reality of Sparta is something I’ve spoken on since that movie was released. His emphasis on the Near Eastern and African connections in Greek myth was also great, and it’s refreshing to see more white academics talking about it.
Okay bot
Leftists white academics that don't know a single thing about history.
This guy reviewed these beautiful movies and made them about racism, sexuality and other woke things..
It's so cringe watching when you know a lot of history...
exactly, portrayal of Persians is racist
but also, completely innacurate
persians were described by ancient Greeks as pale as women
so movie, if anything, should've portrayed greeks as brown, and persians as yt
@@xboxgamerhr its based off a fictional comics book that was inspired by tru events. Chill out lol not everything is pushing a political message on people. Its a movie made for entertainment.
Racist alert. White people have preserved more mythology than any other race, so you should thank whites for ANY knowledge at all.
I would absolutely love to see Professors Meineck talk about Greek and Roman mythology in video games, please bring him back for that! There's the big ones like Hades, God of War, Assassin's Creed Odyssy, Immortals Fenyx Rising. I'd love to see what he thinks of art style inspired by Greek pottery in Apotheon. Okhlos, Persona 3, NyxQuest, Troy: Total War are some more games I've heard of but am not personally familiar with. Hope to see something like this in the future!
I would love to see a second part of this with him, he was really superb!
Fully agree! What an amazing story teller / explainer
What movie would you like him to check out?
I would like a second video too, it'll be interesting to hear his take on Wrath of the Titans and 300 Rise of an empire.
Agreed! And love that they covered Panther and other non-Greek/Roman mythologies
I would absolutely love to see some Asian or African myths explored like Indian, Japanese, Chinese and others! They're fascinating worlds.
As a Greek mythology enthusiast, I initially clicked to see the professor point out all of the many inaccuracies in Disney's Hercules, but I'm glad I watched the whole thing for all of the knowledge and valuable historical insights he offered.
Lol would you expect Disney to make a children’s movie about actual mythology?
@@winklenator *laughs in the upcoming Percy Jackson series with God’s including Zeus having spawns with mortals like mythos*
you mean that the expert have no clue what propraganda is, and are useing wokeist terms because he cant understand that the old world werent like ours
@@thesovietvorona1007 but in Percy Jackson for some reason they portray demigods as being necessary for the universe... like, the gods really need to have sons in order to save themselves and also humanity. In greek mythology there is nothing of this sort, demigods are born because the gods are lusty and also because royal houses liked to portray themselves as divine. So yeah, Disney can easily push aside the luxury of gods (as is in mythology) by claiming is all for the "good of the world" like the percy books claims.
So did I lol
I have never formally studied Greek or Roman (or any) mythology, but I've always been fascinated by it and always read about it myself. This was a completely different set of perspectives on the whole area, that I have never encountered anywhere else and which I absolutely loved. My brain has just taken a complete left turn. I love it.
I am not familiar with the idea of the snake wound around a rod as a symbol of death. The Cadeucus and the rod of Asclepius to my understanding are symbols of healing and wisdom, and snakes being symbols of the earth absolutely makes sense in that context. This is a new one for me!
The gender war thing actually does make a lot of sense especially in light of how the sexes were segregated in various times and places.
Fascinating video!
he doesn't mention Asclepius he already thinks people know about it. He doesn't mention other key elements about the 300 or Hercules etc either.
Absolutely loved the last point he made about myths and fidelity. Stories are made richer by allowing it to be influenced by the zeitgeist.
I had a teacher in college who used to say that myths and tradition has the job of making their origins forgotten. We should only see the message, and to learn and be in wonder with the stories, not search for the person who wrote it or 'made it all up' many centuries before.
This man is an idiot, and he is obviously seeing everything though an agenda.
I agree with him and you but only in part. The idea that a story should grow is definitely something that should happen BUT it should not be done at the expense of the original. Adding, improving, expanding and making more inclusive is different to perversion and bastardisation, which unfortunately seems to be the trend in the modern age.
Laughed so hard at the point he made about Spartans being bisexual and the fact that on Jan 6 people were dressing up as Spartans and being totally oblivious
Ah yes, Jan 6 riots that were led in by the fbi which is a proven fact, where a 60 year old woman who got directed through doors by the fbi ends up getting shot point blank in the head by a black police who had time to disengage but committed murder nonetheless but you all cheered for literal convicted peds chasing down a 16 year old kid with guns and wanted him locked up for defending himself and society. Yous stood up for Floydy who used to hold pregnant ladies up at gunpoint and Rob them 🤣
And they are the least worst out of them.
Burning down cities ,people, homes, pets, stores, cars every thing because you're all sadistic terror rats who need to be put away.
@@S-bl1df Facts always hurt you dimwits. That's only just the widely televised and reported on atrocities that yous commit regularly. Jussie smollet is your actual hero and the toughest dude in your ranks 🥴 just embarrasing
@@SH19922x Are you a farmer? Or why all the straw men?
@@SH19922x whoa, comments like this is why we desperately need to invest in mental health
@@SH19922x just say you hate black people, already.
Good God you have gone down some rabbit holes. You probably believe the earth is flat and birds aren't real if you believe the nonsense you just spewed.
You people are literally the only ones talking about Jussie Smollet, nobody but idiots like you even remotely care about him.
This was unexpectedly really good. Touched on a lot of things that need to be spoken about. Glad I watched it.
300 was based on the graphic novel, not history. And the reason why the Persians are depicted the way they are is because the narrator in the film is a Spartan that returned to Sparta to tell the rest of Greece what had happened to gather support. He demonized them so that they would appear evil and non-human.
Indeed and this was a very popular tactic in antiquity.
Nothing he said goes against that though. He's simply stating that Persians were misportrayed, and they were.
oh my gosh, i loved peter's explanation of greek and roman mythology. it's something i studied in school and even considered getting a masters in! his approach is so easy and digestible with honesty that links to todays world. please bring him back!!
you're totally right mate. i was thinking the exact same thing when he explained the gender division between earth & olympus - i'd never had it explained quite like that. fuckin brilliant
@@pasta-and-heroin yea
I love how he points out that African mythology and tales influenced Greek and Roman mythology. I also love how literally no one is talking about it 😂
Right
Ain’t no one saying nuthin
I hate how true this is... honestly came to the comments solely to see what people thought about this.
Well, it's not that unusual of one culture to influence another culture. It's kinda normal even, so what's a matter.
People who are interested in this and people who study this are generally aware of this. The roots of myth of and religious thought will inevitably find their way back to the most ancient civilisations.
Homie didn't pull any punches with the commentary. Well done
I love this series of just letting these awesome nerds geek out over what they love. I learn so much and enjoy learning!
I think a point in 300 that’s often missed, that explains as lot of the historical inaccuracies, is that the whole story is in fact a retelling of the events of the story by the guy who lost his eye and was sent off to tell their tale, so the unreliable narrator is kind of built into the story.
And he only saw half of it ;)
well the movie itself is based a comic strip/ graphic novel not entirely on the actual retelling
Thank you, lots of people kind of forget that and that's actually what make the movie so great.
@@ezjean.1280 its a terrible movie because of those inaccuracies and full on bs
in short its a copout and bs
i could listen to this man talk all day. i was a classics major and his analyses of Black Panther and Wonder Woman were extremely compelling. this is actually, now, my favorite VF Expert Review.
A classics major? So you're unemployed at the moment?
Its a bot
"The Cohen Brothers never read the Oddessy." yet, in the credits, they credit The Oddessy......
I’ve been on a binge with these, and this is my favorite so far.
Peter you are a true scholar. You talk with such confidence and ease. You are a role model historian/scholar/professor. Please invite him again. Vanity fair I like your content more than GQ who has a similar series. Much respect to you. I have never learned so much in your videos or GQs like this one. Really ty Peter for coming
This guy is a beautiful story teller, and a lover of old stories.. I agree with you M D. Peter needs to come back
Wish I had professors like him, holy crap.
Yes invite him again!
are you in love with him lol
confidence and ease, but not a lot of knowledge. The Dr Fox effect claims another victim!
Probably the best episode I've watched. Absolutely loved his assessment on the "disabled" in the ancient world, and the representation of those in film as distrusteful.
As a general statement it is accurate but in the example he used Ephialtes was only initially met with hostility by the Spartans. King Leonidas actually welcomes him and, despite his disabilities, he gives him the opportunity to fight (in a way). He explained why he could not fight as an able bodied Spartan could and that he would be a weakness to the Phalanx. It's Ephialtes turning on Sparta that brands him a traitor, not his disabilities or any prejudice on the side of the Spartans.
he gets a lot wrong, though. like, a _lot_
@@DrWhom it would be fab if you could highlight these instead of just calling him wrong. I'm sure there's a lot of academic debate going on
@@DrWhom you do know the 300 movie is basically complete fiction, right?
@@guyincognito8440
Weak arguement.
I don’t think this guy knows that 300 is based off of a comic book by Frank Miller and that’s why the Persians aren’t really human and that’s why Xerxes is very tall and has a bunch of jewelry on him. Because obviously they never looked like that and the Persians never looked like samurais.
Not even just that, the Persians look the way they do because the entire tale is being told by a spartan soldier, he would naturally view his enemies as beasts and his comrades as unstoppable heroic beefcakes
I took one classics (Mythology) class in college and it was honestly one of the best classes, I would recommend it as an elective.
There is no way the Coen brothers created O Brother, Where Art Thou? while being completely unaware of The Odyssey - I don't believe that for a second.
Homer even has a writing credit on the film. Even if the Coen Brothers claim it was independent, their lawyers disagreed. I could buy some elements being coincidence, but others (like John Goodman having an eye patch) are pretty hard to brush off.
I think they were aware of it, they just hadn't read it. They were going off the knowledge they had accumulated through the zeitgeist. I've heard Tim Blake Nelson talk about how it was on set with him being the only person who'd actually read it and he thought it was interesting.
They weren't unaware of it.
They said they were aware of it, as much as anyone is, through pop culture, but hadn't actually read the book.
@@KeyDash753 Wait, why was there a need of lawyers being involved in this? Homer's works are very firmly in the public domain.
@@apg13997 True, I often forget about the public domain thing. Still, even if there's no need to pay royalties or anything like that, they'd still want to give credit when it's an adaption and not original.
Professor Meineck will now go right up there with Erik Singer for must watch "experts break down" content. This is by far one of the best episodes of this style show across all producers. I particularly appreciated his commentary on the fidelity discourse at the end of the video, as well as his careful attention to the way the modern tellings handle the different cultures.
Erik Singer taught me things about accents I never knew I didn't know. Same thing with this guy and history/mythology.
What video did Singer do?
@@tonyriemenschneider8745 He has like 10+ across various channels breaking down accents.
Imagine today if you threw in a credit card trying to get to the Underworld.
You: *swipes card*
Chiron : Sorry, sir. Your card is maxed out.
Really fascinating, probably one of the best of these types of video I have seen
Regarding 300, I always thought persians were described in that fashion because Dilios is telling the story. He has embelished the story to boost the moral of the troops that are about to fight in the battle of Plataea.
What a great analysis!
@@MsKym4 Yeah I mean, the story isn't meant to be taken as a historical account of the facts but as an embelished account of them within the story, as propaganda. The sequel tones down quite a bit the exageration of the persians becase now, even though the main focus of the story is portraying the greeks as heroes and follows the story of Themistocles we are shown Xerxes story prior transformation and we can empathize with him and his struggle a bit more, the same goes for Artemisia's story.
300 is based on Frank Miller's graphic novel
He’s a college professor. If he doesn’t say something is racist he doesn’t get tenure
@@myman5472 hes right about the persians they were african ,asian, and arabic looking
I had no idea on the connection between Greek mythology and African mythos. You should do a video on that!
I think he pointed out the core element of this connection, that half of the Mediterranean is surrounded by Africa, & given how wide Greco-Roman cultures & borders went back then it is honestly less likely that their cultures did not intertwine than otherwise.
The Western world just never cared to delve into that.
@@juliansenfr it makes sense you are right! But like you said I never even consider it!
@@juliansenfr In several of the Greek myths, and even the Iliad, Ethiopia often makes an appearance.
U do know, but u don't know, that u know like ancient Egypt is north Afrika, he doesn't speak or think of subsaharan or east Africa!
@@dginc.4582 kindom of kush were ruled by Nubians dipshit
Thank you so much for this, I love history and this has been fascinating. Would love to take a class with this teacher.
I watch of lot of these ‘movie breakdowns’ and for me this was the best one yet!
as a longtime avid mythology nerd and buff, I adored every second listening to this man and even learned some new things. please bring him back!
So true...
Study it yourself
@@vintheguy yeah, consulting reliable sources instead of this con artist
Oh man him explaining around Black Panther was something I didn't expect and was beautiful. Kinda can relate to it with Philippine culture.
Philippine culture? How? I'm Filipino and I don't resonate whatsoever with Black Panther.
@@kuyab9122 the idea of enslavement and colonization but Wakanda itself is 'lucky' to be hidden.
Being able to communicate with old ancestors on the astral plane.
Even the opening of Black Panther and the stolen artifact masks. Know about the Balangiga Bells?
Know about how the friars kept the natives of the Philippines subservient for centuries?
I'm no warfreak today. Trade with Spain is great and reasonable this day. But we do have a harsh past with colonization.
The lead Blank Panther fight ritual really reminded me of the Philippines with all the different tribes coming together for the country of Wakanda under one banner. We are a diverse nation of various ethnolinguistic cultures.
@@ginogarcia8730 Come to think of it, when you do a deep-dive to our history and culture, you have a point.
@@kuyab9122 Yep, dats da point mah man.
The cool thing is in Africa there's actually not one place tribally like Wakanda where they all live peacefully in one place.
But the Philippines is. Technically the US is.
But yeah, even the Black Panther itself is a symbol of fighting against colonization and oppression by conquerors and protecting the original culture to be safe.
underrated video this guy knows his stuff
I love his positivity. He’s not a purest and finds value in all the iterations, irrespective of accuracy.
And I appreciate his willingness to reveal whitewashing and racist tropes.
I could and would listen to Peter's explanations on mythology anytime. Clear, entertaining, respectful. Please make more of these with Peter.
I could listen to this guy for hours. I love his analysis and perspective. I would also like to see him cover Immortals and some retellings like Hadestown, The Song of Achilles, and Circe
I couldn't stop crying after reading the song of achilles
This was fascinating! Thank you so much for this video, I loved every second!
I don't think the 300 should have been included in this. It was never presented as a Historical piece though it be about a Historical battle. It is purely a film adaptation of a COMIC BOOK by Frank Miller and Lynn Varley whom took comic book liberties. That would be like Historian reviews Bright.
I would love to hear the professor's perspective on "Alexander" esp. Alexander's campaign in India and the connection between Ancient Greece and India, given that many of Alexander's soldiers stayed on in present-day Pakistan.
That's history. Not mythos.
@@antoniousai1989 a Professor of "Classics" is the study of classical antiquity - that is the period of cultural history between the 8th century BC and 6th century AD of which "Alexander" does falls into...obvs not for this video.
Greco Persian war wasn't mythos either.
@@antoniousai1989
History and mythology are usually closely entwined
But that's not a myth.
It was really interesting including the Marvel movie angle. I had thought everything about the Marvel myths was made up. It was great seeing how there was some tradition to those stories.
You thought that Thor was made up, by marvel?
@@potatogaming7044 the way he and the rest of the Pantheon are depicted? Yeah, that's mostly pure fiction and has little to do with what little we know of nordic mythology.
@@potatogaming7044 I thought the Themyscira legends were made up, I did know about Thor.
What's interesting is the conversation around how comic books and the idea of heroes/villains with super powers, have kind of become the modern version of mythology, without the religious overtones.
@@KS-xk2so well, mythology itself is not inherently tied to religion.
A mythos is a tale or story that is passed along through several iterations of retelling. Historically that would be word of mouth but there are also modern Mythos in the age of print. Slenderman or Cthulhu for example are two examples of modern Mythos.
A Mythos can and usually does contain lessons of a cultural, societal or religious nature but that is not entirely necessary.
So yes, comic books are a form of Mythos creation but they aren't the only one in modern times.
Sidedig: Captain America for example is the Mythos of US American (moral) superiority by way of utilizing a literal Übermensch representing supposed patriotic values.
I want more videos with this prof! Love to learn.
My god what a storyteller this guy is. Youre immediately drawn in.
What a fascinating and compelling person - really enjoyed that and I love my world myths so it was very refreshing to have him discuss the wider picture - Kush, Ethiopia, Egypt as well as the Greek & Roman ones - thank you
And he left out sumer and anatolian inflyence. Probably the greatest influence on greek culture
This was soo fascinating! Now i need more!
These two videos with him are fantastic. More of this please!! I love reading the comments of those who have taken his classes.
I am literally BEGGING you to have him come back in again (and again and again) for more breakdowns. This man is INCREDIBLE.
I'd like an expert review of movies about Japanese history and Samurai, specifically for The Last Samurai. One of the biggest problems with the movie is "Samurai never used guns." Oda Nobunaga, Takeda Shingen, and Tokugawa Ieyasu BUILT their success with armies of riflemen. A lot of things about Samurai are heavily misconceptualized in American movies.
That’s literally the point of The Last Samurai. Even the point of the name
@@jacobmcmillan6787 Yeah, but it's set in the late 19th century, by which time Japanese armies had been using the arquebus (tanegashima) for over 300 years.
You accidentally just showed that you don’t know about samurai yourself; Nobunaga, for example, did build his success on the arquebus - but it wasn’t samurai firing them, it was peasants recruited into the army, Nobunaga actually killed a lot of the Oda samurai in a civil war at the start of his reign.
The “samurai” you mentioned were all daimyo, they didn’t use the arquebus in battle, and most of their troops using arquebus weren’t samurai either - they kept samurai as infantry troops, because while you can shoot the oncoming heavily armored infantry, the arquebus is slow to reload and the infantry is fast to close the distance.
Also why Nobunaga used the system of three man volleys; two archers were attached to every arquebus user, and would volley arrows in the time between the volleys of arquebus fire.
Hollywood seldom sticks to facts! LOL. An exception is the movie Dillinger with Johnny Depp. The guide on the gangster tour confirmed that that movie stuck pretty close to the truth! Come to think of it, Johnny Depp is a modern day myth teller, with his potrayal of Dillinger and Whitey Bulger of Boston in Black Mass.
Samurais being portrayed as knights... and even then, incorrectly so is some of the things that hurts me the most. I blame it on the fascination around swords, which is unearned:
Knights in tales are always using swords in huge battles, when it's clear that they were more side-arms, since they are far more expensive and less useful in a charge than, say, a spear (or any kind of polearm in that matter). I think that incorrect idea has been transposed to the samurai, kinda trying to make them like mythical European knights with their ubiquitous katanas... when in fact, they were far different, and katanas were more of a symbol of status and a duel weapon. Again; swords were never very useful in massive fights and most warriors favored other weapons: first polearms, and later on guns and rifles
I mean, come on, if you assume samurais veered off of guns amidst Japan's technological revolution, you would then have to be assuming that samurais were basically idiots that disregarded any kind of strategical or tactical thinking in favour of some abstract ideas of honor and tradition xD
Just watched about twenty of these, back to back, and they were very entertaining, and informative. But this one is on another level of interesting in comparison.
Got me opening about a dozen Wikipedia pages. 😂
Nice vid! I appreciate the final statement a lot! Especially in these times.
I want to see him chat about some of the Hades/Persephone retellings we're seeing now: Hadestown, Lore Olympus etc.
The Persians were also known to pay laborers and not inslave people making them look even more like the good guys as opposed to Spartans.
Looks like the good guys? Lol what?
Thats the ting that always confuses me every time slaves come up in the movies. xD
@@mgreco712 what what??? Is it to hard for your simple brain to process???
Yes, I believe it is because their main religion at the time, Zoroastrianism explicitly bans slavery. They were certainly not some inhuman evil force.
This was a great video. Alot of real dope gems were dropped
This was a great find! Glad it came across my feed
Love it
Sometimes when my engineer husband goes to a tough meeting I’ll tell him, “Come back with your spreadsheet or on it.”
This was actually a WHOLE CLASS. Thanks, professor Meineck
I'm captivated and truly marvelled by the depth of his analysis, facts and symbolism all narrated so beautifully. Thank you, Peter Meineck.
I dunno about “racist” but the Ancient Greeks were absolutely obsessed with making the Persians look bad. But some Greeks (Ionian Greeks) fought with the Persians against the mainland Greeks
Favourite episode so far, This was really amazing! Hope we get a second part. He explained everything so flawlessly.
One of the best experts so far, such great explanations of mythology!! Would LOVE a second part with Peter again!
The movie 300 is based on a comic book, not a historical book, that’s why there is so many “non accurate” info there
that makes a lot of sense
I really enjoyed listening his explanation :D
Thank you for explaining the importance of African culture and mythology upon the Greeks. Not mentioned was that the character of Andromeda is an African princess who was played by a white actress in both Clash of the Titans films.
Denzel Washington just played Macbeth. Clearly a white Scot’s man! Get over it!
@@mwa1254 One black man playing a modernised version of MacBeth out of a few hundred thousand varying interpretations over a span of 600 years is not the same as the complete omission of Africa's role in Mediterranean mythology due to a deliberate campaign of whitewashing enacted during a time of racial eugenics. Try to actually have a complex thought once in a while instead of trying to boil every issue down to infantile simplicity.
tbf even some classical Greek pottery shows Andromeda as looking like a fair-skinned woman with typical Greek features. Even back then there was ambiguity on her skin color and even then it was confusing to the Greeks. There is an entire section on her wikipedia page just about her ethnicity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_(mythology)
It was the usual cope, the original populations of north africa weren't the people who are there now, success brings immigration, and then failure, cycle of civilization.
@@timdunn0 "Try to actually have a complex thought once in a while instead of trying to boil every issue down to infantile simplicity." Funny since the same could be said to you. By the way you could say that the clash of titans film where also modernized version. Man you really have no arguments at all since you can not even back up your bull crap.
I like how the professor was correct about the idea behind the Amazons of Wonder Woman without really knowing the history behind Wonder Woman's creation.
Wonder Woman was created by a man named William Moulton Marston, who was a professor of psychology at Harvard in the 1930's and believed that the loving, nurturing ideals of the female form were a superior counter to the aggressive and toxic masculine form.
He was also really into bondage, was engaged in a poly-amorous relationship with his wife and one of his grad students, and helped invent the lie detector.
I think there's a movie about him on Netflix.
@@elfiex.x Yep. It's called "Professor Marston and the Wonder Woman" and while it is very good, the main characters are WAY more attractive than their real life counterparts, which doesn't really matter because nobody saw it.
lol
@@barry2349remember they said to toxic masculinity not masculinity in general
I wish I had a professor like him.
300 is based on a comic made prior to internet knowledge , hence it,s a story told by one to share a glimpse into another world and toold through the charm of an individual
Not like we didn’t know this all before the Internet you moron
300 - We find in the end Dilios is the narrator, re-telling the battle of Thermopylae, prior to battle at Platea. Dilios is not professor of Greek studies at Spartan University lecturing to grad students. This is a "ra-ra" locker-room type speech to fire up the troops for battle, something leaders do all the time. This story is told a specific way for the purpose of his audience - troops about battle and die. He portrays the enemy as formidable but not honorable. The enemy is/will be difficult to defeat, but on the wrong side of things. He portrays his fellow Spartans as idyllic, and the enemy as bizarre and flawed. Ephialtes is portrayed as most grotesque of all to a Spartan, as he is traitor to his own and too weak for battle. I have no idea if Dilios had ever faced an armored charging rhino or a 50' foot tall elephant, but I bet he'd exaggerate re-telling the story to his peers!
In addition, Sparta was the most ableist society- they threw away babies with disabilities. So it would make sense that the disabled/disfigured character be evil
but it’s not even accurate to how they viewed Persians at the time
Need to remember that in the movie '300', it's narrated after the fact as a propaganda tale to inspire the army, & just like in all wars, demonizing the enemy is common in propaganda. Look at WWII propaganda as a example
I don’t understand how that excuses the racist and bigoted imagery. Yes, World War propaganda was usually very racist and led to several problems, so how is this narration explanation an excuse for dismissing the imagery? That simply seems like a cop out to protect Miller and Snyder.
Let’s not forget that Miller also wrote “holy terror,” a comic in which all Muslims (men women and children) were depicted as terrorists, and Snyder claimed that “300” was 90% historically accurate.
It has nothing to do with propaganda. Persia invaded in Greece so 300 Spartans went at Thermopylai to stop the enemy. It wasnt about demonize nobody. They went there to defend their land and their families. And it was more than enough.
@@dimipartcaster7770 "It has nothing to do with propaganda." Except that battle BECAME propaganda so it still have to do with propaganda.
@@arman_1024 "I don’t understand how that excuses the racist and bigoted imagery." Except it is a movie and not a documentary but clearly you are not educated to understand that. By the way calling it racist and bigoted imagery only proves that you have no arguments after all.
"and Snyder claimed that “300” was 90% historically accurate." Well did the battle not happened? Since 90% of the story is true you really have nothing to complain about.
simp
1. Heracles doesn’t turn into a lion, he wears the lion’s pelt.
2. Zeus does create humans, just not the first ones. He throws the old ones away and tries making new ones but fails, so Prometheus helps them.
There are different versions, there is also a version where Prometheus creates men and Zeus women (Pandora), there is also one where humans have four arms and legs and two faces, so Zeus splits them in half (1 man and 1 woman).
3. I loved the Hercules movie as a kid, but when I started learning about mythology I just couldn’t believe how much they got wrong, they didn’t even get his name right (although I do think that Hercules sounds better than Heracles).
I hope you do more videos with this guy, he's fantastic
Please bring him back!!
I would love to hear him talk about Percy Jackson's modern interpretation and maybe a chance to look at some of the dialogues for the video game Hades!!
yes! i wanted to comment about the Hades game as well
You know, this honestly was probably the most compelling one of these videos y'all have put out yet. I'd pay to audit this dude's lectures for a semester.
The snake on a stick is the rod of Asclepius a god of medicine
2 snakes = Caduceus. 1 snake = Asclepius
First of all, 300 is made after a comic book by Frank Miller. It isn't meant to be historically accurate. That's one. And second. They didn't let the diformed guy go with them because he couldn't lift his shield, not simply because he was diformed.
I don't wanna correct the expert so I won't, but the creation myth the Greeks held ( as I was told it) was that Zeus and Prometheus created Man together and afterwards Prometheus, loving his creation so much gave fire to mankind which angered Zeus, which in turn led to Prometheus being chained to a mountain and having his liver eaten every day. So Idk, maybe the professor has a different version that he studies/teaches.
This is exactly the comment I was looking for. I mean… he’s the expert but as far as I’m concerned that’s the gist of it. Zeus was bored so decided to create beings which he could lord over, so asked Prometheus to bake them out of clay and so on. It’s a great story as it is but it deprives the professor of an opportunity to make a trite comment on gender politics. Again, I might be wrong on that one but his constant interpretation of details through the lens of a tiktok cringe compilation drove me a little mental.
Nice apophasis. But the expert is correct: none of the many extant Ancient Greek sources have Zeus creating humans.
@@praisethesunn6541 You certainly were looking for it. But you're not "mental", just a bit gammony.
Also I thought Zeus told Hephaestus to create Pandora for Epimetheus to fall in love with her. Pandora was made to be curious so opened up Pandora’s box to release evil on mankind or something like that. Don’t think the expert was correct on this (I just love this specific story I am no where near an expert on Greek mythology).
There are many versions of these myths and none of them are truly “correct” because myths change over time, especially ones that were spread as part of a religion
One of the greatest and most intriguing reviews I have ever listened to, learnt a bunch! Thank you for this😉
This guy is a great teacher. He communicates both a real love for his subject and a critical understanding of it.
this was extremely fascinating; what a wonderful speaker and (i’m sure) professor. please have him back to discuss african/egyptian myth!
This is amazing. Would love to see him or other professors on segments like this
To be fair, 300 is based on a graphic novel, which is obviously a very stylistic type of comic. Alas it’s based in history but it partially explains why certain liberties were taken in regards to the supernatural elements.
@amirali khatame I always thought the point of 300 was telling the story of the battle through the eyes of an ancient Greek. During the Persian wars, they were extremely xenophobic towards the Persians, and so 300 portrays them as alien and effeminate - the way ancient Greeks during the Persian wars saw them.
It also portrays the Persian army as huge and the Greek army as very small, which is meant to show the great discipline and martial prowess that ancient Greeks thought they had.
I think 300 is an interesting take on historiography in movies. It's essentially an extremely nationalistic film like Pearl Harbour or The Patriot, but the audience is meant to be ancient Greek people instead of modern Americans, none of whom are alive today.
@J. Rec Exactly. I don't understand why this professor is getting bent out of shape. Sounds like he wasn't told this movie was based on a graphic novel, which itself is all about visual drama to sell box office tickets, nor does director Zack Snyder claim this movie to be complete or partially historically accurate. Otherwise, the professor should just watch a History Channel/PBS/Nat Geo documentary about Sparta with accurate dramatic reenactments.
He also contradicts himself at 24:55 by talking about the "Fidelity Discourse", basically saying he doesn't subscribe to the idea that a story has to be told accurately to the myth (or original story) and that changes are welcome because it comes down to the performance and audience reception (you know, like how Zack Snyder's 300 was told and many people liking it).
@@SkullAngel002 well said.
@@ciaranjones9449 interesting!
@@SkullAngel002 Just because someone doesnt claim historical accuracy IF a film is made about an historical event it SHOULD be historically accurate unless you CLEARLY state otherwise. 300 was bs
As a classics grad, I am in love with this video. I saw 300 in theaters and when friends began to ask me questions about it, I literally said the same thing this professor did: "where do I even start?!" 😅
Awesome movie !
At 4:05 Racism? With Frank Miller as the source? How is that possible
Nobody’s perfect
This was amazing, I really appreciated his insight and learned so much. I would love 8 more videos with him please!!
As someone who studied Latin & Ancient Greek in high school, this was a really interesting video to watch! 😀
extremely insightful thank you
What a fabulous video! Prof. Meineck is so compelling.
the shield is called a Hoplon, not a Hoplite. Hoplite means "soldier that carries a Hoplon"
I can't take this guy too seriously after some of his takes in this video.
the shield is called an aspis. Hoplon means gear in a general sense.
@@djehuti3 aspis and hoplon are used interchangeably to mean shield
@Seanus Patricus right!
@Seanus Patricus why
This is a truly great breakdown showing how our modern depictions focus more on reinforcing our modern stereotypes and attitudes rather than educating the audience about actual history
There is something wrong with the comment section, like every one has almost the same comment with bearly a comment and a couple of hundred likes. Makes you wonder
My impression of Pandora’s story was that she was essentially created to corral/guide man and focus their quite reckless power.
It always bothers me that 300 is judged as a historical film. It's a comic book movie, based on a Frank Miller graphic novel. Zak Snyder was bringing those pages to life, not the history books.
Please bring him back for a second part!!! This was so fascinating and he's trylu a beautiful speaker