Firstly, apologies for the audio quality in the studio shots. Only one lav mic, so I had to use the camera mic instead :/ Seems like a good time to thank my filament sponsor, X3D. They supply me free filament to use in my videos. I receive no commission or monetary compensation for using or promoting their products. I was already a customer before they were a sponsor because in my opinion they sell great quality filament.
@@TeachingTech Sorry,but I'm having trouble understanding some bits.Around 4:55,there is talk of a warning,but I can't make out what for...Thanks as always for sharing!!
@@TeachingTech absolutely, sometimes i'm having more trouble understanding the Australian accent then the audio quality 😊 (i'm from the Netherlands, so English isn't my native language)
All I ever use is Fillamentum's ASA. Never fails, dimensionally accurate, clean, strong. Slight price premium, but not enough to scare me away back to PLA, even for non-engineering prints. Print on heated glass bed with Aquanet Super Hold and it will never ruin a first layer, yet parts often pop off by themselves when the glass cools.
I suspect your Nylon was wet. You MUST dry it before printing (and *while* printing, for longer jobs) - you can't just assume that it will be dry straight out of the packaging as it very rarely is, even if it's vacuum sealed with a sachet of dessicant. All of your issues with the Nylon print (maybe except the bed adhesion) are classic signs of damp filament.
It doesn't look wet on prints - but it's always a good idea to throw it into the oven overnight. I see much more problems with warping due to using improper adhesion interface. Dimafix is ok (when temperature of the bed is over 80C), but I much prefer Magigoo PA. There's caveat though - none of the adhesion interfaces I've tested doesn't work properly with PEI coated beds (and I've tested many material/adhesion combinations). I've had great success with glass and Flashforge print pad as bed. PA6, PA12 and other polyamides stuck very well to it.
@@ovDarkness Printing Nylon at the moment in a bootleg chamber (cardboard box lined with foil) and having a lot of success printing on PEI using a school water soluble glue stick. 4-6 thin coats allowed to dry between them and the Nylon sticks to it like crazy. So much so that it has slightly damaged my PEI sheet as it contracts slightly when cooling. Best thing is that it cleans up with water and paper towel.
Stubbled onto this video looking for filament tests for my model train parts. What a wonderful crew and effort. Great to see young minds at work on science and of course Anything Auto Race related is very cool. Great video and informative. Thank You, D
Awesome video! I honestly expected a bit more from the prints itself. If you make a video about engineering materials I would like to know how to print them properly. That's what got me here. Still, I wasn't disappointed since the video itself was fun to watch!
@@TeachingTech Thanks for your answer and nice that you are going to take a further look into these materials! Is Nylon among them? Because you had some trouble printing it, I can imagine that it looks like this material hasn't the most potential which could be different when printed without problems. The surface finish can turn out awesome :).
Wow that was an amazing video ! Not only did i learn about a few filaments i didn't even know existed but i got to see some outstanding young Australians using their engineering skills to solve problems and improve the car . You have 84.6k suscribers surely if everyone donated 50 cents you would reach your goal ? C'mon everyone put your hand in your pocket and donate !
All the more reason to work on that high-temp printer Mike! With decent layer adhesion (from higher nozzle and chamber temps) I'd put my money on polycarbonate being the best material (all round). Great work, and I have huge respect for the work you're doing to inspire and educate the team.
I am new to 3D printing and from the information I had for a filament printer it was ASA that turned out to be the best choice for car parts. Thank you for the clarity on that ;) I also am using PLA for testing and will be planning to make more parts in the near future to as accurate as possible for the vehicles around me, due to the low availability of parts. For my first prints, I've never had so much success on my first shot, which was oversighted by someone with experience in the operation of 3D printers and CNC machines. I found it great to get the job done and build up a little confidence! All in all, it costs with PLA about $1.00 to print parts so failures are acceptable to a point. I can't wait to get my ASA roll :D Thanks' for your videos, advice and support! I saw the video about the Ender 3V2 and choose it based on the ability to buy kits and upgrade it! So cool :)
My wife of 20 years is a gifted and steam teacher! I could tell you had the teaching vibe! We looked into the Co2 cars but the support equipment for just her school would have been too expensive. I was a scout leader for a few years for my son. We did Pine would derby. My son was the only kid with self designed 3d printed wings and fenders on his car!
I am glad I found this video. I was going to just do the acrylic panels and call it good. I also had the same idea about using something like a incubator thermostat to control the heat in the enclosure. But I didn't account for needing additional insulation.
Great to hear X3D are sponsoring your videos, thanks guys. Nothing wrong with sponsorship, we know your views and opinions are honest, personally I trust you implicitly. Very interesting testing, I've never printed with ASA yet, think I should start giving it a try for structural designs. All the best for the competition and I'm looking forward to seeing more videos on it.
Boy, I wish I had these kinds of tools available when I was a kid. Plus, another vote for “why no PETG?” It’s going to be stronger than PLA and as easy to print.
@@rwetmore it somewhat is stronger depends on what you mean with strength. PLA is very strong but cant handle impacts very well. If you slowly load it with mass then PLA is very strong. :)
Well, seeing as the context was strength in a part that isn't load-bearing and is somewhat expected to be involved in a crash, I thought the answer was self-obvious, but self-obviously not so. 😉
btw, I've been told by folks enamored of PLA that PET-G is more brittle. Chemically, not true because of glycol's properties, but since many people just leave their partial rolls of PET-G hanging out it takes on a lot of moisture given it's quite hygroscopic. The water breaks down the copolymer chains, and the action of steam leaving the nozzle causes layers to not adhere very well. It's more heat-resistant than PLA and is just about as easy to print. And not much more expensive.
Cool video, volunteered at the Vic state finals earlier this week for the development class, as a judge for manufacturing, saw some interesting designs best of luck for the Worlds
There are two kinds of Polycarbonate in the market. One is Makrolon, which is brittle and you can easily test your filament by bending more than 45 degrees - if it breaks, its Makrolon. The other is Lexan which bends and does not break. I am assuming that your PC filament is similar to Makrolon PC, because a pure Lexan will not break on your test. If your bed cannot heat up to 145 degrees C, you will fail to adhere to the bed. Also your nozzle has to get up to 325 degrees. PEI works well at that temperature, but you'll need a detachable PEI steel or thick sheet to remove the object after the print has cooled down.
I used recently a lot of ASA filament, nozzle temperature between 240C and 260C and bed between 70 and 105 C. It works very well, even a roll of 270 mm height. I did it on a creality cr-s10 pro, on a creality cr-6 se and on a prusa printer. It sticky very well on the bed, nearly to well. For me, it was as easy to print as PLA, with many advantages of ABS, as higher temperature resistance and UV resistance. More I use it, more I like it.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
I use mainly ASA for my prints, easy, uv-resistant, strong enough and price is okay. I print it in enclosures and using filters because of particles and styrene.
Nylon should be printed on garolite, you can use gluestick to help adhesion, support is to be avoided with nylon. Polycabonate works well with PEI, not PEX. I had a PEX sheet get destroyed by a PC print. Good luck. You should look into nylonX -- I have printed is successfully on garolite, it's stronger than regular nylon but is very impact resistant.
I have good results printing Nylon on glass at 80°C with 3DLAC on my Ender 3 pro with an enclosure. I use supports if necessary and they are hard to remove but not impossible. I hear good things about garolite which I should try.
Nylon likes 70mm print speeds. It is probably overkill for your needs but it is very strong. I used matterhackers Nylon G to make planishing hammer upper dies. In my application, I literally use Nylon G to shape metal panels for cars. I am just as surprised as you are, I did it as a joke at first but they actually hold up well.
ASA with HIPS supports is my favorite filament for functional prints. I’ve had great results with PC, PETG, and NylonX too, but Raise3D’s ASA gives me the best results with perfect consistency.
Re: polycarb and BuildTak. Not surprising that PC would fuse to BuildTak, as that surface uses an acrylic component, which is why you cannot clean BuildTak with acetone. A 3D printer company in my area uses BuildTak as their default surface, and when they did a PC print, it permanently fused to the BuildTak, ripping it when they tried to remove it. Re: Nylon. Another local 3D printing company in my area recommends garolite (G10/FR4, basically circuit board material) for nylon prints, and Magigoo markets an adhesion solution specifically for polyamides and which Stefan over at CNC Kitchen uses on his Prusa MK2.5. (Disclaimer: I have yet to mess with nylon; I have a spool of carbon fiber nylon to test with the office MK3 at some point.) I've been having some issues with ABS warping of late, so I'm starting to consider getting a print enclosure heater and some insulation for the office printer... Glad to hear ASA worked great for you guys. Come to think of it, I think we have a roll of Spoolworks MatX...
ASA is pretty much identical to ABS.. it will warp similarly but it's slightly better in every way (UV, printability, surface finish, sheen,etc).. we print with it a lot (150ish spools a year)
Hey man. I just wanted to congratulate you. Looks like you're doing a great work with those kids and your channel is filled with great videos on different topics. What I like about your videos is that they are very professional, always with references to other sources of info and very well structured. Just a small recommendation and this is just my perspective, maybe the background and overall look of the location you use for your videos could use a bit of refining. Make it look more appealing to the viewer. I don't know maybe the colors or the stuff around you arrange in a different way. Again this is just a thought, I'm not an interior designer or anything like that. Again great job, great videos. Keep them coming. Thanks you.
Good Job, I have to add few thing here. Remove the support before you cure the Resin, it's allot easier and leave a better finish. Print your model on the FDM side-way. One advantage will be to curve the profile to add down force with a smaller section, more efficient and lighter. Also hallow all sections and walls. Tube any shape have less weight for a similar strength. A last thing, All material have different characteristics and requier often modification of the model, if you can...
I'm with the why not petg group with a twist, I print daily petg-carbonfiber on glass no glue or heated chamber. Lightweight and if you tune your settings it's 0,02 mm accurate print after print. And smooth and strong.
I heat my chamber using a $10 personal desk heater and a $20 PID controller with thermocouple and SSR. I can set the temperature based on what material I'm printing.
I use Matterhackers NylonX on an unenclosed Prusa, on the PEI bed with 6mm brim. A layer of elmer's glue stick helps a ton. Very awesome parts from that material if you can bare the expense.
Good luck in November. I don't know why but I am pretty sure my Ender 3 prints PLA better than your ender 5; The big difference between them is that I have a 2mm lead screw on the X axis and a BMG clone extruder. The rest is stock. Maybe you should change the lead screw so it doesn't have to microstep to get layer heights that aren't a multiple of 0.04mm as that is just inaccurate.
Interesting, thank you. While everybody is asking about other filament types. I use HIPS a lot, not for support but actual structural parts and I think it would have faired very well in this particular test.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
@@truantray It depends how you define strong. It might have a lower harness (tensile strength), but so do practically all other filaments. ABS is about identical to Nylon and ASA in this respect. Where ABS excels, is at impact strength. ABS has a nearly 8x higher impact strength compared to PETG and PLA, whilst Nylon is only 3x and ASA 6x. Lastly, ABS is very resilient to high temperature compared to other filaments. tldr; ABS is not outdated at all, tensile strength alone does not say a lot about a material, and ABS definitely advantages over other filaments. There is a reason it is used a lot in all industries. I do agree though that both ABS and PETG are missing in this comparison.
@@truantray So does ASA. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
Watching the video, I was looking forward to suggesting resin printing as the best choice for this part but of course you already had that as your last test sample. You should have excellent dimensional stability and no warping. Not sure what caused that. Similarly, with well designed supports (UA-cam videos explaining that, with recommended slicer settings), the support should peel off by hand leaving very tiny surface defects, or no visible defects. In the USA, I buy Siraya Fast resin for US$30 per kg and It's a VERY structural resin. A much thinner wing could be made with less drag and less mass and it would be crash resistant. I just designed an electrical insulator that needed high tensile strength and low weight. The center portion is 6mm x 6mm. I looped paracord through each end. I stepped on one cord loop and pulled up on the other cord with all my strength and could not break this 1.55 gram part.
This is awesome how the kids are doing that kinda of stuff like having the car in a mini wind tunnel or what ever that was it look like one lol anyway that awesome tho mad respect to them your a awesome person good luck yall
Polypropylene has some awesome chemical properties. It's super resilient to chemicals such as ketones, acids, bases and plasticizers. Not sure what the Pegasus PP has in it though, probably tons of additives.
It should be stated better that PP filament is lighter, therefore 500g roll is same amount of filament as 1000g roll of pla (legth, volume wise), hence the price is actually more in a range of 130/2 =65USD. Because 3d printer , in the end prints volume, not weight.
I see you have problems warping problems using tape, in my short experience have seen a lot of warpage pirnting on tape (ABS) in my case and is that adhesion of the part to the tape is bigger than the adhesion of the tape to de bed, same happens using build surfaces attached to the bed with clips and not glued to it. Really find the right surface to each material ir a real pain.
You could try some PET-G. Extremely easy to print, durable, cheap, a bit softer than pla, which is good for sanding and impact strength. And it has really smooth surface finishes.
I've heard ASA called a successor to ABS, very similar qualities but less stench and easier to print. I'd rather use it than ABS, as well. Would have been interesting to see how some carbon fiber blends worked out, like Prusa's PC Blend CF or even PETG CF.
I'd say PET would potentially be too brittle. PETG can act very brittle under high impact loads also (considering how ductile and maliable it can be under low impact loads). Both have a similar density to PLA I believe? Easy to print though, and maybe perfectly adequate.
@@jaistanley PETG density is a lot higher than PLA, one of the highest of any 3D printed plastic. However, the tensile strength is lower (i.e. it flexes and doesnt snap, but does so at lower force than PLA), and the impact strength is practically identical to PLA.
Could you try printing your warping filaments on paper? Spray the bed with hairspray and put down the paper immediately to stick it to the bed. Then heat up the bed and start drying. The bed should be dry quick enough after the bed heats up to the desired temperature. Let me know how it works for you.
God bless you and those kids!!! I'm just now watching this video(11/03/2021) and I sure hope that C19(The CCP Virus) hasn't slowed those kids down!!! Great video!!! Your teaching style and your integrity for thruthful, honest, unbiased data is fantastic!
all that heating for abs? i honestly put a blanket over my printer(Hypercube evo-s)and the heated bed makes it toasty in there. and i don't even need to water cool stuff. i get warp free big abs prints that way. even on glass with gluestick! it gets super warm there and any pla part melts and softens massively. so even my simple decorative stuff have to be from petg/abs :P
@teaching tech have you ever tried ultimaker CPE+ ? Incredible surface finish, super high strength, no warping and suitable for automotive. It can handle temps up to 110c. we use it all the time but it is a bit pricey and only comes in 2.85mm.
Thanks! great vid. Which of these UV resistant filaments > ASA, PCTG & PETG are 'strongest'? Speaking of those which UV resistant filament would you recommend for functional parts... eg a shed door handle?
well, that was a bit of a surprise, I thought they wouldve picked PLA as their overall favored 3D print, I know that I favor the resin for fine finish (in general) for tight-fine tolerances, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear their similarity of favor to my own.
great video :), my pick would be the ASA, with some hand finishing it could me made perfect, it would be interesting on what products can be sanded and polished.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
The PC and Nylon were likely wet straight from the package. That's the unfortunate reality of hygroscopic filaments. Wet PC seems brittle to me. I've got to test more, but I haven't had issues since I dried by filament in the oven.
Interesting, X3D are great but their PC is almost impossible to print with ive found, after a bit of research it appears if you want to be able to actually print PC you spend $100/kg (polymax, esun), interestingly ABS which is a fifth that price achieves similar youngs modulus at about 2/3 the tensile strength and is much more printable at a lower quality, now reconsidering whether I should aim to print everything in PC considering this.
I recalled back to the days at Uni, we were dealing with FEA using ANSYS and Solidworks, while some students were using Abacus for their final year project. Great way to reduce the cost and optimise the model using computational power. Good luck with the International game!
Teaching tech as for your results with the nylon I wanted to tell you about this nylon filament I've been using lately which has been amazing it doesn't suffer from the issues of not sticking to beds actually it's quite the opposite it often sometimes sticks way to hard and therefore is recommended to be used with glue stick as a way to remove the prints a bit easier but I don't use the glue stick and i print with it directly onto a spring steel flex plate on the smooth side that usually nothing sticks to very easily except for this stuff and it sticks so we'll it's often though to remove without removing the plate and flexing it. The filament I'm using is called easy nylon which is a good name for it as it is a much easier form of nylon to print. I would love to see you using it and review it as I'm really interested in what makes this filament so different from other nylon filaments I've used in the past. One of the weird aspects of it is that you only need 50c on the bed temp. I found mines on Amazon and again under the name easy nylon by the filament brand overture (a pretty well known and widely used brand of filaments)
keep in mind the pp filament was $130 per kg but it was also super light, so you could possibly print the same amount with a 500g spool of that as apposed to a 1kg spool of PLA.
You are a good guy getting all these kids interested in science and engineering. I hope one day Australia will also regain its god given rights to own semi-automatic firearms as well. As a boy I was very interested in technology and firearms was what turned me on to science and engineering. My father showed me how a rifle worked, the science behind it, and ever since then I was hooked on learning how things work.
Polycarbonate might be weakened by the heated chamber, which requires no heat and very high nozzle temperature. But once you get it right, it will be very tough. I've been using it with my RC car, and it could survive quite a lot of tough situations I throw at it.
Hi I have an ender 3 pro, I just ordered an all metal hot end with some polycarbonate filament. I need to print a small rod 4" x 1/4". Any recommendations from a pro?
Was wondering that too, other than the very poor testing and conditions, didn't test PETG. ASA is great except highly toxic you want really good ventilation or print it outside like I do. Other than that, to me, there are only PROs. All I use are PETG, TPU and ASA.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
@@gg-gn3re "Only pros"? So how do you recycle them, because AFAIK all three are some of the most difficult to recycle - not because it's technically impossible, but because no one really does it (PETG is not PETE).
I've been working on a 3d printed crossbow, and I'm wondering what your recommendation would be for printing the bow limbs. I've been using PETG, which works OK at first, but doesn't hold up to repetitive flexing long before part fatigue.
2:20 i was expecting you to say pure PC. all this effort... for ABS? i can print abs with just a blanket losely thrown over my printer like that! Pure Polycarbonate on the other hand tho.... also you should've tried a brim with a nylon! and also glass with pva or garolite
Firstly, apologies for the audio quality in the studio shots. Only one lav mic, so I had to use the camera mic instead :/
Seems like a good time to thank my filament sponsor, X3D. They supply me free filament to use in my videos. I receive no commission or monetary compensation for using or promoting their products. I was already a customer before they were a sponsor because in my opinion they sell great quality filament.
congrats on the sponsor
It's good enough. Different, not that nice, but enough.
I tried really hard to apply filters and deverb it. Only so much you can do I suppose.
@@TeachingTech Sorry,but I'm having trouble understanding some bits.Around 4:55,there is talk of a warning,but I can't make out what for...Thanks as always for sharing!!
@@TeachingTech absolutely, sometimes i'm having more trouble understanding the Australian accent then the audio quality 😊 (i'm from the Netherlands, so English isn't my native language)
Those kids are lucky to have such a dedicated teacher like you Michael!!!! Good luck boys!!
Just about to say the same thing..
One dedicated teacher can change the direction of a kid’s life. ❤
"It passed with flying colors, so we threw it at the table as hard as we could" engineering at its finest XD
I had the same thought when I watched that part, lol
All I ever use is Fillamentum's ASA. Never fails, dimensionally accurate, clean, strong.
Slight price premium, but not enough to scare me away back to PLA, even for non-engineering prints.
Print on heated glass bed with Aquanet Super Hold and it will never ruin a first layer, yet parts often pop off by themselves when the glass cools.
I suspect your Nylon was wet. You MUST dry it before printing (and *while* printing, for longer jobs) - you can't just assume that it will be dry straight out of the packaging as it very rarely is, even if it's vacuum sealed with a sachet of dessicant. All of your issues with the Nylon print (maybe except the bed adhesion) are classic signs of damp filament.
It doesn't look wet on prints - but it's always a good idea to throw it into the oven overnight.
I see much more problems with warping due to using improper adhesion interface.
Dimafix is ok (when temperature of the bed is over 80C), but I much prefer Magigoo PA.
There's caveat though - none of the adhesion interfaces I've tested doesn't work properly with PEI coated beds (and I've tested many material/adhesion combinations).
I've had great success with glass and Flashforge print pad as bed. PA6, PA12 and other polyamides stuck very well to it.
@@ovDarkness Printing Nylon at the moment in a bootleg chamber (cardboard box lined with foil) and having a lot of success printing on PEI using a school water soluble glue stick. 4-6 thin coats allowed to dry between them and the Nylon sticks to it like crazy. So much so that it has slightly damaged my PEI sheet as it contracts slightly when cooling. Best thing is that it cleans up with water and paper towel.
I find nylon a pain in the ass even when it’s been fully dried and in a fully enclosed heated printer. (Raise3D Pro3)
But you can get away with drying and leaving it in a mylar bag for a couple weeks in my experience, at least with Fillamentum FX256 you can.
There's more front wing development in this video than Williams has done all season.
SHAAAAAADE! :-D
OOF
Someone get the aloe!!!
Stubbled onto this video looking for filament tests for my model train parts. What a wonderful crew and effort. Great to see young minds at work on science and of course Anything Auto Race related is very cool. Great video and informative. Thank You, D
Awesome video! I honestly expected a bit more from the prints itself. If you make a video about engineering materials I would like to know how to print them properly. That's what got me here. Still, I wasn't disappointed since the video itself was fun to watch!
As I said at the end this is just the starting point. Now we put in the time to refine the materials that have shown the most potential.
@@TeachingTech Thanks for your answer and nice that you are going to take a further look into these materials! Is Nylon among them? Because you had some trouble printing it, I can imagine that it looks like this material hasn't the most potential which could be different when printed without problems. The surface finish can turn out awesome :).
Nice work! It's awesome that you brought the students in, and they got to be a part of the video! Cheers
Oh to be at school again. And with a teacher like you! Those kids are blessed. Great stuff. I have forwarded the link to a few people!
Wow that was an amazing video ! Not only did i learn about a few filaments i didn't even know existed but i got to see some outstanding young Australians using their engineering skills to solve problems and improve the car .
You have 84.6k suscribers surely if everyone donated 50 cents you would reach your goal ?
C'mon everyone put your hand in your pocket and donate !
All the more reason to work on that high-temp printer Mike! With decent layer adhesion (from higher nozzle and chamber temps) I'd put my money on polycarbonate being the best material (all round). Great work, and I have huge respect for the work you're doing to inspire and educate the team.
I agree with other comments, the team are extremely lucky to have you as their teacher, well done mate, and well done team. All the best in November.
I am new to 3D printing and from the information I had for a filament printer it was ASA that turned out to be the best choice for car parts. Thank you for the clarity on that ;)
I also am using PLA for testing and will be planning to make more parts in the near future to as accurate as possible for the vehicles around me, due to the low availability of parts.
For my first prints, I've never had so much success on my first shot, which was oversighted by someone with experience in the operation of 3D printers and CNC machines. I found it great to get the job done and build up a little confidence!
All in all, it costs with PLA about $1.00 to print parts so failures are acceptable to a point.
I can't wait to get my ASA roll :D
Thanks' for your videos, advice and support!
I saw the video about the Ender 3V2 and choose it based on the ability to buy kits and upgrade it! So cool :)
My wife of 20 years is a gifted and steam teacher! I could tell you had the teaching vibe! We looked into the Co2 cars but the support equipment for just her school would have been too expensive. I was a scout leader for a few years for my son. We did Pine would derby. My son was the only kid with self designed 3d printed wings and fenders on his car!
I am glad I found this video. I was going to just do the acrylic panels and call it good. I also had the same idea about using something like a incubator thermostat to control the heat in the enclosure. But I didn't account for needing additional insulation.
I'm totally envying these kids. We had nothing like that when I was at first years of secondary school (14 to 16 yo)
Good luck to the whole team! Thanks for sharing your findings, and I hope you are all able to make it to the finals!
Great to hear X3D are sponsoring your videos, thanks guys. Nothing wrong with sponsorship, we know your views and opinions are honest, personally I trust you implicitly.
Very interesting testing, I've never printed with ASA yet, think I should start giving it a try for structural designs. All the best for the competition and I'm looking forward to seeing more videos on it.
Boy, I wish I had these kinds of tools available when I was a kid. Plus, another vote for “why no PETG?” It’s going to be stronger than PLA and as easy to print.
PLA is stronger than PETG.
Lol. If you say so...
@@rwetmore it somewhat is stronger depends on what you mean with strength. PLA is very strong but cant handle impacts very well. If you slowly load it with mass then PLA is very strong. :)
Well, seeing as the context was strength in a part that isn't load-bearing and is somewhat expected to be involved in a crash, I thought the answer was self-obvious, but self-obviously not so. 😉
btw, I've been told by folks enamored of PLA that PET-G is more brittle. Chemically, not true because of glycol's properties, but since many people just leave their partial rolls of PET-G hanging out it takes on a lot of moisture given it's quite hygroscopic. The water breaks down the copolymer chains, and the action of steam leaving the nozzle causes layers to not adhere very well. It's more heat-resistant than PLA and is just about as easy to print. And not much more expensive.
Cool video, volunteered at the Vic state finals earlier this week for the development class, as a judge for manufacturing, saw some interesting designs
best of luck for the Worlds
i print exclusively with Polymaker ASA and Im able to print huuuge half kilo parts with 0 warping with my non heated enclosure, and its great.
This is a great video, just dissapointed about the mix. Great luck to your team!
There are two kinds of Polycarbonate in the market. One is Makrolon, which is brittle and you can easily test your filament by bending more than 45 degrees - if it breaks, its Makrolon. The other is Lexan which bends and does not break. I am assuming that your PC filament is similar to Makrolon PC, because a pure Lexan will not break on your test. If your bed cannot heat up to 145 degrees C, you will fail to adhere to the bed. Also your nozzle has to get up to 325 degrees. PEI works well at that temperature, but you'll need a detachable PEI steel or thick sheet to remove the object after the print has cooled down.
I used recently a lot of ASA filament, nozzle temperature between 240C and 260C and bed between 70 and 105 C. It works very well, even a roll of 270 mm height. I did it on a creality cr-s10 pro, on a creality cr-6 se and on a prusa printer. It sticky very well on the bed, nearly to well. For me, it was as easy to print as PLA, with many advantages of ABS, as higher temperature resistance and UV resistance. More I use it, more I like it.
Great to see a member of the Hayes clan in the team! GOOD LUCK guys
Username checks out :)
hey, have you considered nonplanar printing? this looks like a perfect time to use this technique :)
Will nonplanar printing work with such thin parts? IIRC the nonplanar printing is only applied to the final top surface, adding thickness.
@@nixxonnor It can be used for infill too, but the shape of the object should allow it
Students did great. I’m getting ready to use ASA for a project. Glad to see you had a good experience
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
I use mainly ASA for my prints, easy, uv-resistant, strong enough and price is okay. I print it in enclosures and using filters because of particles and styrene.
How is the strength compared to PLA+?
What filters do you use?
Nylon should be printed on garolite, you can use gluestick to help adhesion, support is to be avoided with nylon. Polycabonate works well with PEI, not PEX. I had a PEX sheet get destroyed by a PC print. Good luck. You should look into nylonX -- I have printed is successfully on garolite, it's stronger than regular nylon but is very impact resistant.
Using a sheet of polycarbonate as the print bed is also a good way to print PC or Nylon without warping or ruining the bed.
I have good results printing Nylon on glass at 80°C with 3DLAC on my Ender 3 pro with an enclosure. I use supports if necessary and they are hard to remove but not impossible. I hear good things about garolite which I should try.
Garolite is a name brand, the material is phenolic resin.
Excellent video and use case! Congrats to the team!
Nylon likes 70mm print speeds. It is probably overkill for your needs but it is very strong. I used matterhackers Nylon G to make planishing hammer upper dies. In my application, I literally use Nylon G to shape metal panels for cars. I am just as surprised as you are, I did it as a joke at first but they actually hold up well.
Great stuff Michael. Good to see the team evaluating many criteria to get the best outcome. Cheers, JAYTEE
ASA with HIPS supports is my favorite filament for functional prints. I’ve had great results with PC, PETG, and NylonX too, but Raise3D’s ASA gives me the best results with perfect consistency.
Re: polycarb and BuildTak. Not surprising that PC would fuse to BuildTak, as that surface uses an acrylic component, which is why you cannot clean BuildTak with acetone. A 3D printer company in my area uses BuildTak as their default surface, and when they did a PC print, it permanently fused to the BuildTak, ripping it when they tried to remove it.
Re: Nylon. Another local 3D printing company in my area recommends garolite (G10/FR4, basically circuit board material) for nylon prints, and Magigoo markets an adhesion solution specifically for polyamides and which Stefan over at CNC Kitchen uses on his Prusa MK2.5. (Disclaimer: I have yet to mess with nylon; I have a spool of carbon fiber nylon to test with the office MK3 at some point.)
I've been having some issues with ABS warping of late, so I'm starting to consider getting a print enclosure heater and some insulation for the office printer...
Glad to hear ASA worked great for you guys. Come to think of it, I think we have a roll of Spoolworks MatX...
ASA is pretty much identical to ABS.. it will warp similarly but it's slightly better in every way (UV, printability, surface finish, sheen,etc).. we print with it a lot (150ish spools a year)
Thanks for the video. good luck for the team.
Great video Micheal... I have bought 2 ender 3s thanks to your videos!!!! Keep up the great work!!!
Mike you're a treasure!!! Great work as always!!!
Fantastic Video! Excellent work gentlemen
Hey man. I just wanted to congratulate you. Looks like you're doing a great work with those kids and your channel is filled with great videos on different topics. What I like about your videos is that they are very professional, always with references to other sources of info and very well structured. Just a small recommendation and this is just my perspective, maybe the background and overall look of the location you use for your videos could use a bit of refining. Make it look more appealing to the viewer. I don't know maybe the colors or the stuff around you arrange in a different way. Again this is just a thought, I'm not an interior designer or anything like that. Again great job, great videos. Keep them coming. Thanks you.
Good Job, I have to add few thing here. Remove the support before you cure the Resin, it's allot easier and leave a better finish.
Print your model on the FDM side-way. One advantage will be to curve the profile to add down force with a smaller section, more efficient and lighter. Also hallow all sections and walls. Tube any shape have less weight for a similar strength. A last thing, All material have different characteristics and requier often modification of the model, if you can...
I'm with the why not petg group with a twist, I print daily petg-carbonfiber on glass no glue or heated chamber. Lightweight and if you tune your settings it's 0,02 mm accurate print after print. And smooth and strong.
Thanks for tests. Have great races !
Very nice comparison! Lots of good info
I heat my chamber using a $10 personal desk heater and a $20 PID controller with thermocouple and SSR. I can set the temperature based on what material I'm printing.
I use Matterhackers NylonX on an unenclosed Prusa, on the PEI bed with 6mm brim. A layer of elmer's glue stick helps a ton. Very awesome parts from that material if you can bare the expense.
Good luck in November.
I don't know why but I am pretty sure my Ender 3 prints PLA better than your ender 5;
The big difference between them is that I have a 2mm lead screw on the X axis and a BMG clone extruder. The rest is stock. Maybe you should change the lead screw so it doesn't have to microstep to get layer heights that aren't a multiple of 0.04mm as that is just inaccurate.
What other changes did you need to make in software for that?
@@dinosoarskill17 changed the steps/mm on the z axis to 1600.
This definitely wasn't a great PLA print, I agree. I did a quick tune and enable of linear advance, more optimisation needed.
cool getting the kids involved! nice work all around!
Interesting, thank you. While everybody is asking about other filament types. I use HIPS a lot, not for support but actual structural parts and I think it would have faired very well in this particular test.
This is a very nicely performed test. I guess I will have to check out the ASA type filamant
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
Question? Where is the PETG?
ABS?
@@agff1962 ABS is outdated, not stronger than even PLA and throws off toxic gasses.
@@truantray It depends how you define strong. It might have a lower harness (tensile strength), but so do practically all other filaments. ABS is about identical to Nylon and ASA in this respect. Where ABS excels, is at impact strength. ABS has a nearly 8x higher impact strength compared to PETG and PLA, whilst Nylon is only 3x and ASA 6x.
Lastly, ABS is very resilient to high temperature compared to other filaments.
tldr; ABS is not outdated at all, tensile strength alone does not say a lot about a material, and ABS definitely advantages over other filaments. There is a reason it is used a lot in all industries.
I do agree though that both ABS and PETG are missing in this comparison.
@@truantray So does ASA. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
Came to the comments for this
Watching the video, I was looking forward to suggesting resin printing as the best choice for this part but of course you already had that as your last test sample. You should have excellent dimensional stability and no warping. Not sure what caused that. Similarly, with well designed supports (UA-cam videos explaining that, with recommended slicer settings), the support should peel off by hand leaving very tiny surface defects, or no visible defects. In the USA, I buy Siraya Fast resin for US$30 per kg and It's a VERY structural resin. A much thinner wing could be made with less drag and less mass and it would be crash resistant. I just designed an electrical insulator that needed high tensile strength and low weight. The center portion is 6mm x 6mm. I looped paracord through each end. I stepped on one cord loop and pulled up on the other cord with all my strength and could not break this 1.55 gram part.
This is awesome how the kids are doing that kinda of stuff like having the car in a mini wind tunnel or what ever that was it look like one lol anyway that awesome tho mad respect to them your a awesome person good luck yall
The puck marks on the wing actually look kinda cool from the top. Maybe even some winglets on the bottom to hide them.
Interestingly also (just a random thought) a smooth surface isn't always the most aerodynamic. Just look at golf balls.
nice work keep up the good job
These kids are impressive 👍
Michael, I am 14 seconds into the video and stopped to give a thumbs up. Back to the video I go!
Polypropylene has some awesome chemical properties. It's super resilient to chemicals such as ketones, acids, bases and plasticizers. Not sure what the Pegasus PP has in it though, probably tons of additives.
Good job. it's amazing you guys didn't try the second-most common filament, which I believe is ABS.
It should be stated better that PP filament is lighter, therefore 500g roll is same amount of filament as 1000g roll of pla (legth, volume wise), hence the price is actually more in a range of 130/2 =65USD. Because 3d printer , in the end prints volume, not weight.
I see you have problems warping problems using tape, in my short experience have seen a lot of warpage pirnting on tape (ABS) in my case and is that adhesion of the part to the tape is bigger than the adhesion of the tape to de bed, same happens using build surfaces attached to the bed with clips and not glued to it. Really find the right surface to each material ir a real pain.
You could try some PET-G. Extremely easy to print, durable, cheap, a bit softer than pla, which is good for sanding and impact strength. And it has really smooth surface finishes.
Damn that is SO cool F1 sponsors that!!
I've heard ASA called a successor to ABS, very similar qualities but less stench and easier to print. I'd rather use it than ABS, as well. Would have been interesting to see how some carbon fiber blends worked out, like Prusa's PC Blend CF or even PETG CF.
cool stuff! great methodology and assessment. no PET or PETG?
I'd say PET would potentially be too brittle. PETG can act very brittle under high impact loads also (considering how ductile and maliable it can be under low impact loads). Both have a similar density to PLA I believe? Easy to print though, and maybe perfectly adequate.
@@jaistanley PETG density is a lot higher than PLA, one of the highest of any 3D printed plastic. However, the tensile strength is lower (i.e. it flexes and doesnt snap, but does so at lower force than PLA), and the impact strength is practically identical to PLA.
Could you try printing your warping filaments on paper? Spray the bed with hairspray and put down the paper immediately to stick it to the bed. Then heat up the bed and start drying. The bed should be dry quick enough after the bed heats up to the desired temperature. Let me know how it works for you.
God bless you and those kids!!! I'm just now watching this video(11/03/2021) and I sure hope that C19(The CCP Virus) hasn't slowed those kids down!!!
Great video!!! Your teaching style and your integrity for thruthful, honest, unbiased data is fantastic!
I wish I had a teacher like you!
Prusament PB Blend is a new tough one to try!
all that heating for abs?
i honestly put a blanket over my printer(Hypercube evo-s)and the heated bed makes it toasty in there. and i don't even need to water cool stuff. i get warp free big abs prints that way. even on glass with gluestick! it gets super warm there and any pla part melts and softens massively. so even my simple decorative stuff have to be from petg/abs :P
@teaching tech have you ever tried ultimaker CPE+ ? Incredible surface finish, super high strength, no warping and suitable for automotive. It can handle temps up to 110c. we use it all the time but it is a bit pricey and only comes in 2.85mm.
Another advantage for ASA. It is much easier to sand than PLA.
Thank you. That is probably something we'll be testing soon.
Prusa is releasing a smoothing setting to flatten the top of the print. This might help on aero.
Super useful video 👌👌👌
Thanks! great vid. Which of these UV resistant filaments > ASA, PCTG & PETG are 'strongest'? Speaking of those which UV resistant filament would you recommend for functional parts... eg a shed door handle?
Very nice
well, that was a bit of a surprise, I thought they wouldve picked PLA as their overall favored 3D print, I know that I favor the resin for fine finish (in general) for tight-fine tolerances, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear their similarity of favor to my own.
great video :), my pick would be the ASA, with some hand finishing it could me made perfect, it would be interesting on what products can be sanded and polished.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
The PC and Nylon were likely wet straight from the package. That's the unfortunate reality of hygroscopic filaments. Wet PC seems brittle to me. I've got to test more, but I haven't had issues since I dried by filament in the oven.
I would like more info on the insulted setup that printed those large abs prints please .
Interesting, X3D are great but their PC is almost impossible to print with ive found, after a bit of research it appears if you want to be able to actually print PC you spend $100/kg (polymax, esun), interestingly ABS which is a fifth that price achieves similar youngs modulus at about 2/3 the tensile strength and is much more printable at a lower quality, now reconsidering whether I should aim to print everything in PC considering this.
For PP ultralight I had to slow the machine (CR-10 with mod for flexibles) down to 25-30mm, and use packing tape on the heat bed with pva glue.
Bloody hell, these kids are doing FEA in highschool??? Good job.
I recalled back to the days at Uni, we were dealing with FEA using ANSYS and Solidworks, while some students were using Abacus for their final year project. Great way to reduce the cost and optimise the model using computational power. Good luck with the International game!
Teaching tech as for your results with the nylon I wanted to tell you about this nylon filament I've been using lately which has been amazing it doesn't suffer from the issues of not sticking to beds actually it's quite the opposite it often sometimes sticks way to hard and therefore is recommended to be used with glue stick as a way to remove the prints a bit easier but I don't use the glue stick and i print with it directly onto a spring steel flex plate on the smooth side that usually nothing sticks to very easily except for this stuff and it sticks so we'll it's often though to remove without removing the plate and flexing it. The filament I'm using is called easy nylon which is a good name for it as it is a much easier form of nylon to print. I would love to see you using it and review it as I'm really interested in what makes this filament so different from other nylon filaments I've used in the past. One of the weird aspects of it is that you only need 50c on the bed temp. I found mines on Amazon and again under the name easy nylon by the filament brand overture (a pretty well known and widely used brand of filaments)
keep in mind the pp filament was $130 per kg but it was also super light, so you could possibly print the same amount with a 500g spool of that as apposed to a 1kg spool of PLA.
Yeah, seems odd to measure cost per weight, when it should be cost per volume.
Awesome
You are a good guy getting all these kids interested in science and engineering. I hope one day Australia will also regain its god given rights to own semi-automatic firearms as well. As a boy I was very interested in technology and firearms was what turned me on to science and engineering. My father showed me how a rifle worked, the science behind it, and ever since then I was hooked on learning how things work.
🤦♂️
As always great video bud. I am sure you heard about DPT's announcement. I wanted to know your take on it
With nylon, it’s recommended to use a dry box.
i print esun nylon on heated bed at 90c with prusa texture plate. peels off on bare texture plate but using glue stick have never had a print fail.
Polycarbonate might be weakened by the heated chamber, which requires no heat and very high nozzle temperature. But once you get it right, it will be very tough. I've been using it with my RC car, and it could survive quite a lot of tough situations I throw at it.
Hi I have an ender 3 pro, I just ordered an all metal hot end with some polycarbonate filament. I need to print a small rod 4" x 1/4". Any recommendations from a pro?
Interesting, I might have to get some ASA. Wad there a reason not to try PETG?
Was wondering that too, other than the very poor testing and conditions, didn't test PETG. ASA is great except highly toxic you want really good ventilation or print it outside like I do. Other than that, to me, there are only PROs. All I use are PETG, TPU and ASA.
@@gg-gn3re Thanks for pointing that out. I'll skip trying asa then! I print in my cellar, lol.
@@Audio_Simon haha yea, ABS is "arguably bad" but ASA is for sure bad to breathe in, much worse.
ASA like ABS generates toxic fumes when printing. Quote from a filament manufacturer: "As a counterpart as ABS, ASA filament generates toxic fumes when printing so it is very important to print in a place with good ventilation."
@@gg-gn3re "Only pros"? So how do you recycle them, because AFAIK all three are some of the most difficult to recycle - not because it's technically impossible, but because no one really does it (PETG is not PETE).
GOOD TESTs
Thanks for sharing :-)
You could use matterhackers nylon x
I've been working on a 3d printed crossbow, and I'm wondering what your recommendation would be for printing the bow limbs. I've been using PETG, which works OK at first, but doesn't hold up to repetitive flexing long before part fatigue.
That wing's aerodynamic efficiency (and possibly strength) begs for non planar printing.. cmon Michael. Don't let the team down.
If we end up doing FDM it will be explored for sure. At the moment they are keen to optimise the resin.
@@TeachingTech i think thats a wise route to go.
Hey you, 3d printer guys, are you informated about fans bigger than 50mm? Why not use some 120mm fan with heaters?
2:20 i was expecting you to say pure PC.
all this effort... for ABS?
i can print abs with just a blanket losely thrown over my printer like that!
Pure Polycarbonate on the other hand tho....
also you should've tried a brim with a nylon!
and also glass with pva
or garolite
Which type of plastic can be hammered for the longest without breaking or cracking without too much deformation?