Just wanna say that the more of your videos I watch the more I realize that not only are you a great storyteller, you have such a rich and beautiful speaking voice. You'd be a terrific broadcaster.
That's what I immediately thought as well. Not just Anne, either, all those who still had living relatives. Maybe that's part of why some were spicier than others?
The way Anne Boleyn met her death never cease to amaze me. Her comment about her "little neck", her confession, her calmness and bravery while on the scaffold, her deeply moving speach (I always though it was elegant, dignified, and still defiant - very much a reflection of her character). Yes, she was to die, but still, I think, she had the high ground against Henry. What a woman! P.S.: I adore your channel! You are such an intelligent, engaging presenter 🥰
Anne was a pretty intelligent lady being way too good for Henry - as was every woman that got sucked or pushed into his orbit, but did not live to tell the tale or was discarded and fell from grace from the Royal Court. Where do you think Elizabeth inherited her intuition and brains from? The sophisticated and Educated Anne ran rings around the lot of them, but she was up against many predatory factions within the court, all of them out for their own family gains looking for any chinks in her armour to gain power and wealth from the King. Of course, many of these factions at court were from overseas, catholics sent from the Pope as emissaries reporting back and muddying the water at the Royal Court as much as they possibly could for the protestant Anne. Reading between the lines, I would say that Anne knew that she held a duty towards the preservation and safety of her two year old daughter, at the time the Catholic Princess Mary was very much in the background and Edward had not been born as yet. Anne possibly felt and hoped that Elisabeth would be the future Protestant Heir and her scaffold speech in my opinion, only illustrates how much she was astutely aware of this and that the fate of Elisabeth very much hung in the balance, possibly upon her words.
@@WouldbeRenaissanceLady6926she's defo my fave of the wives - I love Aragon's valiance and KP's intelligence, but I can't help feel like AB was ahead of her time and I have a soft spot for people who are flawed yet charming. Seymour can fuck off frankly 😂😂
Somebody asked in Lady C's you tube channel that has there ever been similar person than Meghan Markle in British royal family I was really amazed when she said Anne Boleyn. I don't agree with her.
@@anne-marie2972 I agree, I don't think there has been anyone in the Royal Family ever since Anne that resembles her in anyway. MM would be the last person in my opinion, to spring to mind!
Definitely in the case of Thomas Cromwell, he had relatives to protect; relatives who had risen in social status along with Thomas. What a heartbreaking letter he sent to Henry asking for mercy. If there’s a hell, Henry is in it. Love your channel. Hope you’re having a lovely summer. ❤☮️🌷
Good morning! Personally, I always thought that forgiving speeches on the scaffold could be made, in part, to protect the survivors of the accused after their execution. Charges of treason had a way of spreading through a family, whether justified or not, it seems. You might also want the executioner to find you sympathetic, so he'd take better care to get you with one strike, or even that you'd get a last minute reprieve. And of course, the spiritual side of things is a big factor, as you say. It's so interesting to hear the actual speeches; thank you! The personal courage it would take to calmly step up and lay one's head down with dignity like that is inspiring.
@Ispthrattan • I agree with the thought to protect one’s family. I wonder if in Henry VIII’s reign if it would matter since he was so tyrannical and unpredictable. What an awful man
I agree. Families could often suffer backlash from a convicted prisoner. And paying the executioner was also something they often did to try and ensure a clean death.
That's what I was really wondering about, given those rote introductions repeated by Cranmer & Anne, and the emphasis on not impugning the king despite his awful decisions? Given they were about to die, it feels like protecting their surviving family and friends would be the primary reason they would take this line? 🤔 I'm curious too as to how much of these speeches was truly original to the executed, and how much a template that scribes would impose on the record &/or scribes' interpolations to defend the status quo? Esp. if there is some indication (even if only in doubtful sources like the Portuguese one) that what onlookers heard didn't match the script which was later circulated in print.
This is a fascinating topic and for me, it’s telling that what is said varies a bit depending on the king. The famous ones Dr. Kat mentioned during Henry VIII’s reign tended to be more calm and benign. Those who had been close to Henry knew full well he was petty, vindictive, and violent. Pretty much all of them had relatives-children, parents, spouses, extended family-and Henry would happily harm them all if the condemned “misbehaved” on the scaffold. They all knew that a brave speech accusing the king of mistreatment would just make life even more miserable for their surviving family. Walter Raleigh was executed by James I. James was generally known as an affable man, less inclined to punish a widow or child for a man’s misconduct. Raleigh felt he could speak up without causing additional damage to his family. That’s just my theory anyway. I’m sure other factors played into it as well, but Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell were known for having worried about how Henry would treat their children, which makes me think they tempered their final comments to protect them.
My history prof was of the "family" school. Nobles in particular are trained from birth to defer to the family, its honour, its needs, and its continuation. They knew that a fire & brimstone speech could be used *for centuries* afterward as evidence against any of their relatives or descendants as "bad stock". That explains the usual charge to the audience & the flattery to their sovereign, while also taking on any presumed sin as entirely their own.
Thank you for answering my question! I think what you said about the condemned person's fear for their family is probably the biggest reason for thwir speeches. ⚖️
One could say the same for Lady Jane Grey, whose impassioned speech accepted her verdict and death, but she did add a few Protestant things, such as pray for her now and not after she died.
Unlike the stoning victim in "The Life of Brian", those condemned to death by Henry VIII really did think they could make it worse for themselves if they said the wrong thing at execution time.
Could you talk about the death of Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, who was executed by Henry VIII on 27 May 1541? She was 67 years old and "...her execution was far from dignified. She refused to accept that she was guilty and had to have her neck forcibly placed on the execution wooden block. The executioner was inexperienced and hacked multiple times to her neck, head and back. It reportedly took eleven blows until she was declared dead." It would be interesting to know what she said before execution. Thanks a lot. This skull icon 💀 is as close to execution as I could find.
Not only did Margaret Pole have a terrible death, I don’t think that her life was a bed of roses either. Daughter of a traitor, niece to kings and had Plantagenet blood. She was a remarkable woman.
I am nearly that age now, what that poor lady must have suffered in her last excruciating moments on this earth... What an utterly ghastly way to die, to live to be 67 in those times was remarkable in itself. To be executed simply because you were a living by threat to the monarch is very harsh indeed. I understand there are still living Pole descendants who allegedly feel that they have a claim on the UK throne to this day.
Excellent video on this topic. I wondered about this myself. The points you make seem reasonable given the time period. I do think Anne Boleyn was looking out for her daughter Elizabeth, and perhaps other surviving members of the Boleyn family. It must have been incredibly difficult to make such a speech knowing what was about to happen, and I have great respect for Anne Boleyn especially. She must have been a person of great inner strength, and her daughter’s later reign reflects on her in that strength. Anne, in some sense, triumphs through Elizabeth I.
This was a very interesting topic. I always assumed that scaffold speeches were a social norm of the times. Plus, during the reign of Henry VIII particularly, retribution on the family of the condemned would be a huge consideration. Thanks Dr. Kat! 😃
My imagination is running wild with the idea of how they infact delivered those speeches... The intonation and which words they rested on... the nuance. Two actors' different renditions of Cromwell's speech for example could portray two wildly different emotions. Also... it hurts my OCD that they used to use 'U' & 'V' the other way round. I shant sleep now
The worry for the family is what I always assumed caused people to be so poised on the scaffold. I think because I'm always so worried that anything I do will negatively impact my loved ones, I tend to assume that of others as well.
Henry VIII had so many of his friends and favorites executed, that I don´t believe many condemmed victims had any illusions left. Anne Boleyn had seen her brother executed, and remembered how Henry had treated his daughter Mary after he fell out with her mother. She must have worried about her family. And feared for her daughter.
This topic was, as usual, very well covered. I always believed that the condemned felt that a last minute reprieve would be available but the thought of protecting their families was upper most in their minds as well. Thinking of the egos of the monarchs at this time just confirms the old adage about power. I never would have wanted anything to do with the inner circle. It was a spider web!!
👑Another interesting video! It does seem so counter-intuitive of how we might act today - firmly, declaring our innocents. But, I think you are spot on with the idea that (1) the expectation was to "die a good death" and show forgiveness before meeting death and (2) they may not have wanted to bring further shame or punishment on their families. Thanks for all you do to bring this content to us!
I think that people were concerned for their family and their status. That they weren't brought low by association. I read somewhere that Rafe sadler and Richard Cromwell were unusual in that they continued to say positive things about Thomas Cromwell after he died. It was risky because it suggested Henry was wrong to execute him. Henry was a tyrant and everyone must have known it. They were all terrified of him and worried they would be next. Condemned people were doing all that was left to them to protect their families.
Sometimes when I watch an Anne Boleyn execution scene I like to imagine that her speech was sarcastic. I highly doubt it would’ve been as she was no doubt concerned about her daughter but still it’s kinda funny imagining king Henry’s face when told about her sarcasm.
I can totally see Anne Boleyn hoping for a last minute reprieve. She probably thought, yes, he was viscious and vindictive, but he had loved her before so surely he will show her mercy? I also wonder at what point she lost all hope.
When you consider that anointed Queens had been set aside and “put away” before but never executed, I think that could only have added to her hope too 😞
Catherine of Aragon was educated, beautiful, charitable, royal, dignified, and pious. Anne Boleyn was charming, clever, witty, ambitious and fiery. Jane Seymour was calm, kind, meek, but I think also she had ambition. Katherine Howard was supposedly bright, young, naive, pretty, outgoing, etc. Catherine Parr was no doubt every bit the intelligent woman that his previous wives were. Anne of Cleves had to have been charming and delightful, and smart, to survive Henry. At the end of the day, I see women who Henry did not deserve. 😅
I have always found Katherine Howard's need to see & practice w the block beforehand to be incredibly endearing- & a rather smart way to reconcile oneself to a terrifying fate. I wonder if any one else requested the same before or after her. Fabulous telling as always Dr. Kat! Thank you! Editing to add that I think the reasons given were very likely why people did not rail against the ruler in their last speech. And although I understand that (only) the removal of one's head was a privilege in those times, it's still a ghastly demise.
I agree I thought this had a couple of perspectives one that yeah sure she wanted it to be quick and fast so that she could do all she was able to - to make it so - but also she had reconciliation and peace with what was about to happen. I think this was a very wise move on her part. just to imagine what was about to happen so that she could in a sense “follow the rules” as it were.
Hans Scholl, one of the main people in the White Rose resistance against Hitler had some amazing last words before he was beheaded: "Es lebe die Freiheit! (Long live freedom)"
You are so lovely to listen to, one almost forgets some of the horrific content! I think the contrite speeches were to demonstrate political correctness of the time and perhaps be seen in a more sympathetic light after passing. I’ve always had a sense of “I’m getting the last word” tone to Anne Boleyn’s speech. Not sure why.
This was fascinating. I thought the condemned did not speak out against the ruler to protect their family alone, but I'd never considered the psychological parts you brought up here, the idea that they would want to be genuinely be without sin, without anger or resentment, before their deaths. Fascinating!!! Thank you Dr. Kat :)
😢What a fascinating video. I almost feel like the reasons are all of the above, but primarily I think they were trying to protect their friends and family from Henry’s wrath.
Catherine Howard…that poor girl. 😟 One cannot but feel compassion for all the women entangled with Henry, but Boleyn was at least a tough little scrapper. And Catherine of Aragon kept her dignity and her head, as did Cleves. But Howard was vulnerable, hardly more than a child. ⛓️
Unfortunately you weren't considered a child once you were old enough to marry. Any time from about 12 up. You were expected to act like an adult even though these days we don't expect teenagers to be very adult like in behaviour.
The ones Henry executed were not foreign princesses. He was smart enough to know that if he had executed Catherine of Aragon or Anne of Cleves, he'd be embroiled in a war. He could get away with trumped up charges on Anne Boelyn and Catherine Howard; their male relatives weren't rulers of other countries.
Dear God, I’d never considered the last possible reason for the monarch-praising scaffold speech. The hope of a reprieve…and the moment of realization that it would not come. It adds to the horror of the idea of the public execution for me, and heightens my respect for those who did indeed “make a good death.”
Thank you for yet another informative video, Dr. Kat. I have always admired how Anne Boleyn delicately avoided any mention of her guilt in her scaffold speech. She submitted to her death sentence, but she did not discuss her case in any way. Her fulsome praise of King Henry VIII was probably given to save her family from further retribution, but Anne's refusal to admit her guilt to the (outrageous) charges was noted at the time. Famous Last Words indeed!
Henry was a monster. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Shame he didn't live by the maxim that with great power came great responsibility but there again he failed at his primary responsibility in fathering many legitimate robust lusty sons. The double standards of his lascivious philandering was astounding. Poor young Kat Howard.
I’m so happy to see another Dr. Kat presentation. I’ve been offline for four days due some horrible storms that tore through the Midwest in the U.S. I just got the power back on and I am thoroughly enjoying Dr. Kat and my central air conditioner. It’s been 90 degrees Fahrenheit or 32 degrees Celsius, so it has been a tough few days.😊
I just named my new kitten Sir Walter Raleigh lol. He is dapper and quite fancy in dress, as he is a Tuxedo Cat and has a particularly debonair feel about him. I love all English History, especially anything to do with Royals and their courtiers. So, I adore each of these poor souls and commend them and greatly respect their dignity and honor in their last moments and with their last words. As always, your storytelling is stellar and your topics intriguing. I could listen to you speak about history for the rest of my days, gladly and with a smile. Good day, Dr. Kat
I didn’t want to research gallows but I love and revere your program as telling of History that quite frankly, I found horribly boring as a child. I now seek Historical UA-cam as yours is my favoured of all. The timbre of your voice in its pleasant tone is relaxing to me. Though the subject or topic not quite the stuff of my bedtime hours. Thank you Dr Kats.🌺👏🏼🌺
The example of those discussed, at the moment of their dreadful demise, displays a nobility of spirit far greater than the king who demanded their lives.
But of course. Henry surrounded himself with remarkable people. Remarkable people who in general easily out-shinned him. Wolsey was a better king, because let's be honest, he did the whole job by himself for around 20 years. Cromwell was a better administrator and councilman. Anne Bolelyn was more intelligent and charming. Thomas More was a better Christian and humanist. Katherine Howard had more bravery at 18 then he had his entire life.
Most interesting topic. I have often wondered how a person can go through an absolutely awful and terrifying experience with such grace and dignity. And not spit vitriol about the king. What strength these people had. Thank you.😢
The idea that Catharine Howard and Anne Boleyn were only 6 years apart is just horrific. How do wives 2, 3, 4, and 5 all fit in that period?? Henry was gross.
BTW! The addition of color in your selected tops, the fine application and vivid color in your lipstick and the generally excellent quality of your new camera (as well as the detail of your bookcase and it’s contents) present as lovely, a delight even.
This was so very interesting Dr. Kat! I am not an historian as are you but I always assumed that the condemned would give their speech to protect their survivors. Henry VIII seems to have been so vindictive, I would worry for those I loved. Thank you Ma’am for your insights!
I think we would’ve heard about it by now if there were any last minute reprieves on the actual scaffold. Hollywood wouldn’t have been able to pass that up. Think of the drama!
Dr. Kat excellent video. I have often wondered how authentic scaffold speeches were. I like your explanation why people could have the poise to speak clearly and not be raving.🔥
I think concern for your surviving family members would definitely play a part in the final words. It's pretty much all that would keep me 'meek' in the moments of my death!
History is written by the victor; I always wonder about the accuracy of these final speeches considering those recording them were likely trying to avoid the king's wrath.
I have wondered the same thing. On reflection, however, there would have been many, many witnesses, and word would soon get round if the record was not accurate. Walter Raleigh's speech is a case in point. The government would not have had to argue against it, had they been able to simply suppress his words, or substitute a more acceptable speech.
An interesting video, I thoroughly enjoyed watching. Thank you. 😊I go along with your hypotheses, but the one about the hope of last minute reprieve I found interesting as that was one I hadn't thought of myself, whereas this seems so evident and natural. I hope you were never in the situation where you were fired from a job whether it was out of organisational necessity or for just reasons (I was, I shamefacedly admit) and even if for an infinitesimal moment I hoped that it wasn't true or maybe they were going to rethink their decision. I think this happens to everybody in a similar situation. One additional reason for those eloquent and merciful speeches is also the simple fact that they were able to. I didn't research Cromwell's case, but both queens had not been tortured and came onto the scaffold in a good physical condition in contrast to Anne Askew who was in no condition to give speeches when she was tied to the stake. After having been treated the way she was, she probably was beyond all hope. Looking forward to your next video. 👍
I always felt these poor people were well aware that the wrath of King Henry was easily piqued and he could, with very little provocation, pour it out onto their loved ones. It is something extra to dislike him for, in my opinion. Not only was he taking their lives, he was taking their last words from them.
They all gave dignity and grace, good on them because I'd be like a tell-all episode of a reality TV show on the scaffold. I'd point out everyone and give the juicy gossip and sweet tea on them all for my hour special. If I'm going down, everyone is. And then I'd graciously take my position on the chopping block and peace out as burning it down. ✌🏾 They would need those drums - their Oscars music equivalent - to started when I cause my discourse. Lol.
I believed their fear of making recriminating speeches against their persecutors or the King was their fear for the protection of other family members. Thank you for addressing this subject.
Thank you, Dr. Kat ( @Readingthepast ) for this very thought provoking and, informative topic! I was late ⏰ to the live stream chat unfortunately- so was unable to ask you a question 🙋🏼♀️ I had while watching later. It sounded like both Anne Boylen and, especially Thomas Cromwell were given their last rites from a Catholic Church perspective. I know it was quite complicated during Henry VIII’s reign. However, the speech by Cromwell at the scaffold sounded like he was in some way wanting to make it known to everyone he was dying that day as a Catholic. What do you think? Thank you for any answers you have time to reply.
Thank you for another wonderful video. I was one who often wondered if the Scrappled speeches where to save their families and friends. Because of course they are left behind. 🌹🌹🌹
Another excellent video. No wonder you are my favorite person on UA-cam. I agree with you and a lot of my fellow commenters that most people praised Henry in their last speeches in order to protect the loved ones they left behind. I think this ties in with the "good death" theory, but I read an article a few years ago that speculated that Anne may have had a SITE - Suffering Induced Transformational Experience. According to the article when people are experiencing significant trauma or turmoil which facing beheading would qualify for in my book. People facing death "may experience a ‘break up’ as the ego disintegrates and a new sense of self emerges; a sense of self which is fearless and profoundly peaceful".
I can believe that part of praising the sovereign, who may also be your accuser, to be very much part of your last hope for a reprieve. In the " Last Boleyn Sister," Anne is portrayed at looking at her sister, who has used her last wish from Henry to save her sister and it's been denied. She shakes her head at Anne about half way through her speech. It's at this point Anne reconises that her last hope of living has gone. Yet she gives her sister a silent nod and continues her speech unwavering! Such a strong portrayal and it gets me everytime.😢
I had heard about a noble convict's concern for their surviving family, but I didn't know about medieval ideas about a good death. Hugs for you, Dr. Kat! I wish I could take you out for lunch or a cup of tea. I hope life is good to you.
I just love your videos on History. I am enthralled to know more about your work, and after seeing the “come to work with me” video, it would be fantastic to see an episode on you in your work as a costume historian . Thank you for your dedication Dr Kat. I for one truly appreciate what you do and am very much looking forward to more and more videos from you 😊🙏
I love your videos and listen to them while working on my computer. I am fascinated by the Tudor period. You are such a charming presenter - so easy to listen to. I love how you suggest different interpretations of history. I really can’t say enough good things and compliments. I hope you will be expanding your presentations to one or two hour programs and that they are shown on television. You deserve the wider audience that would bring.
They praised the king because they were leaving family and friends behind that they desperately wanted to protect from the king’s reprisals. All the Tudors were monsters, arresting and executing the innocent as they pleased. Henry VIII executed Margaret Pole only to get back and at her son Reginald Pole and Elizabeth I arrested Raleigh only because of her jealousy and anger that she would no longer be the only adored woman in his life. The much-vaunted “English justice” leaves me cold.
I can only think that perhaps at least some of the decorum was a bit of insurance so that any heirs or family would not be treated badly. I can only hope that whatever terror or panic felt at the last was mercifully brief. If you’ve read Alison Weir’s Tudor Queens novels, particularly Anne Boleyn’s, the terror at the end was palpable, and the author herself was not able to sleep for some time after writing it.
New subscriber to your channel. I concur with you and many here, that one needed to be polite and calm so that your loved ones were protected. The condemned knew what kind of person the king was, cruel, tyrannical and cunning. Best to leave this world seemingly meek and timid. Excellent conversation, thank you!
For a "true believer" - I assume they fully believed they were going to meet their maker. As for being obedient and gracious to the ruler - they probably wanted to make sure their families were safe and retained as much favour as possible.
👑👠🐦⬛ I agree with your thoughts Dr Kat. I can also see someone perhaps frightened that, should they speak harshly, they might be taken away to face a worse alternative. If I’d been in their positions, though I’d love to have given the king what for in my speech, I know I’d be thinking of those left behind, and I’d want my last words to align with how I wanted to be remembered.🙏
As always Dr.Kat. I come here for entertainment and knowledge. And, each time I leave I am quite happy to have a discussion to speak with my friends about and I have learn something new. Thank you!! See you in the next video!!
Always thought it was to save their family from wrath. Opening my eyes to the thought they made have had hope is 😥😥. Thank you for bring a new perspective. Happiness and health to you x
In an age of such chivalry, when deportment was so scrutinized and valued, being the "bigger person" in your last moments may have been really valued as the way to go, securing your good character to the end in this life and in the afterlife that you're just about to enter. As we've just witnessed in the recent coronation, swearing your fealty to the king was a really big deal. It shows your recognition of what is set out in Scripture about respecting those in authority because they've come to be where they are through God (I Peter 2:13 & 14). It again shows that you respect the Bible and that you are of good character. Compared with people who, in their last words were still railing against the king, these speeches must have made a much better impression. Maybe they were hoping that the attendees, at least, would believe in their innocence, even if they couldn't win a reprieve.
I agree - these things would have been of enormous importance. And simply "not looking like a coward" would have been a priority, especially if you were of high social status. Cowardly behaviour would have disgraced your family for generations.
From the Internet: "Thoms de Mahy was a French aristocrat sentenced to be hanged. Upon reading his death warrant he remarked, 'I see that you have made three spelling mistakes'." What panache!
What a great video. I found it interesting to listen to people's last words, and the strength and courage of all of them. But I have never heard Thomas Cromwells last words, which to me, sounded like a last minute confession. I don't think he missed anything and he owned it all. I have to give him full marks for bravery 😊💖
Just wanna say that the more of your videos I watch the more I realize that not only are you a great storyteller, you have such a rich and beautiful speaking voice. You'd be a terrific broadcaster.
I concur! Hurrah 🎉❤😊
Agree here too
❤❤❤ Hear hear!
I thought the same 🙂she has a lovely speaking voice.
I agree. 😊
I think Anne Boleyn would have been very concerned about her daughter’s fate. 🐦⬛Thanks for another great video.
🐦⬛
That's what I immediately thought as well. Not just Anne, either, all those who still had living relatives. Maybe that's part of why some were spicier than others?
Maybe I'm silly, but I've always found Comtesse Du Barry's last words particularly endearing: "one more moment, Mr executioner, please". So human.
Poor woman. I wonder why she insisted against all advice to the contrary, to return to France when she could have lived in safe asylum in England.
The way Anne Boleyn met her death never cease to amaze me. Her comment about her "little neck", her confession, her calmness and bravery while on the scaffold, her deeply moving speach (I always though it was elegant, dignified, and still defiant - very much a reflection of her character). Yes, she was to die, but still, I think, she had the high ground against Henry. What a woman!
P.S.: I adore your channel! You are such an intelligent, engaging presenter 🥰
❤
Anne was a pretty intelligent lady being way too good for Henry - as was every woman that got sucked or pushed into his orbit, but did not live to tell the tale or was discarded and fell from grace from the Royal Court.
Where do you think Elizabeth inherited her intuition and brains from?
The sophisticated and Educated Anne ran rings around the lot of them, but she was up against many predatory factions within the court, all of them out for their own family gains looking for any chinks in her armour to gain power and wealth from the King. Of course, many of these factions at court were from overseas, catholics sent from the Pope as emissaries reporting back and muddying the water at the Royal Court as much as they possibly could for the protestant Anne.
Reading between the lines, I would say that Anne knew that she held a duty towards the preservation and safety of her two year old daughter, at the time the Catholic Princess Mary was very much in the background and Edward had not been born as yet. Anne possibly felt and hoped that Elisabeth would be the future Protestant Heir and her scaffold speech in my opinion, only illustrates how much she was astutely aware of this and that the fate of Elisabeth very much hung in the balance, possibly upon her words.
@@WouldbeRenaissanceLady6926she's defo my fave of the wives - I love Aragon's valiance and KP's intelligence, but I can't help feel like AB was ahead of her time and I have a soft spot for people who are flawed yet charming.
Seymour can fuck off frankly 😂😂
Somebody asked in Lady C's you tube channel that has there ever been similar person than Meghan Markle in British royal family I was really amazed when she said Anne Boleyn. I don't agree with her.
@@anne-marie2972 I agree, I don't think there has been anyone in the
Royal Family ever since Anne that resembles her in anyway. MM would be the last person in my opinion, to spring to mind!
Definitely in the case of Thomas Cromwell, he had relatives to protect; relatives who had risen in social status along with Thomas. What a heartbreaking letter he sent to Henry asking for mercy. If there’s a hell, Henry is in it. Love your channel. Hope you’re having a lovely summer. ❤☮️🌷
Good morning! Personally, I always thought that forgiving speeches on the scaffold could be made, in part, to protect the survivors of the accused after their execution. Charges of treason had a way of spreading through a family, whether justified or not, it seems. You might also want the executioner to find you sympathetic, so he'd take better care to get you with one strike, or even that you'd get a last minute reprieve. And of course, the spiritual side of things is a big factor, as you say. It's so interesting to hear the actual speeches; thank you! The personal courage it would take to calmly step up and lay one's head down with dignity like that is inspiring.
@Ispthrattan • I agree with the thought to protect one’s family. I wonder if in Henry VIII’s reign if it would matter since he was so tyrannical and unpredictable. What an awful man
I agree. Families could often suffer backlash from a convicted prisoner. And paying the executioner was also something they often did to try and ensure a clean death.
That's what I was really wondering about, given those rote introductions repeated by Cranmer & Anne, and the emphasis on not impugning the king despite his awful decisions? Given they were about to die, it feels like protecting their surviving family and friends would be the primary reason they would take this line? 🤔
I'm curious too as to how much of these speeches was truly original to the executed, and how much a template that scribes would impose on the record &/or scribes' interpolations to defend the status quo? Esp. if there is some indication (even if only in doubtful sources like the Portuguese one) that what onlookers heard didn't match the script which was later circulated in print.
This is a fascinating topic and for me, it’s telling that what is said varies a bit depending on the king. The famous ones Dr. Kat mentioned during Henry VIII’s reign tended to be more calm and benign. Those who had been close to Henry knew full well he was petty, vindictive, and violent. Pretty much all of them had relatives-children, parents, spouses, extended family-and Henry would happily harm them all if the condemned “misbehaved” on the scaffold. They all knew that a brave speech accusing the king of mistreatment would just make life even more miserable for their surviving family.
Walter Raleigh was executed by James I. James was generally known as an affable man, less inclined to punish a widow or child for a man’s misconduct. Raleigh felt he could speak up without causing additional damage to his family.
That’s just my theory anyway. I’m sure other factors played into it as well, but Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell were known for having worried about how Henry would treat their children, which makes me think they tempered their final comments to protect them.
My history prof was of the "family" school. Nobles in particular are trained from birth to defer to the family, its honour, its needs, and its continuation. They knew that a fire & brimstone speech could be used *for centuries* afterward as evidence against any of their relatives or descendants as "bad stock". That explains the usual charge to the audience & the flattery to their sovereign, while also taking on any presumed sin as entirely their own.
Thank you for answering my question! I think what you said about the condemned person's fear for their family is probably the biggest reason for thwir speeches. ⚖️
One could say the same for Lady Jane Grey, whose impassioned speech accepted her verdict and death, but she did add a few Protestant things, such as pray for her now and not after she died.
Unlike the stoning victim in "The Life of Brian", those condemned to death by Henry VIII really did think they could make it worse for themselves if they said the wrong thing at execution time.
Could you talk about the death of Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, who was executed by Henry VIII on 27 May 1541? She was 67 years old and "...her execution was far from dignified. She refused to accept that she was guilty and had to have her neck forcibly placed on the execution wooden block. The executioner was inexperienced and hacked multiple times to her neck, head and back. It reportedly took eleven blows until she was declared dead." It would be interesting to know what she said before execution. Thanks a lot. This skull icon 💀 is as close to execution as I could find.
Not only did Margaret Pole have a terrible death, I don’t think that her life was a bed of roses either. Daughter of a traitor, niece to kings and had Plantagenet blood. She was a remarkable woman.
I am nearly that age now, what that poor lady must have suffered in her last excruciating moments on this earth...
What an utterly ghastly way to die, to live to be 67 in those times was remarkable in itself. To be executed simply because you were a living by threat to the monarch is very harsh indeed.
I understand there are still living Pole descendants who allegedly feel that they have a claim on the UK throne to this day.
@@WouldbeRenaissanceLady6926 I'm already that age now. I agree with you. Terrible to die like that.
She was murdered, in the most brutal way.
I agree, would like to hear her story
"I die the King's good servant, and God's first". Thomas More
I can't help but think that Thomas Cromwell's insistence that he was dying as a Catholic could have been a dig at Henry.
Excellent video on this topic. I wondered about this myself. The points you make seem reasonable given the time period. I do think Anne Boleyn was looking out for her daughter Elizabeth, and perhaps other surviving members of the Boleyn family. It must have been incredibly difficult to make such a speech knowing what was about to happen, and I have great respect for Anne Boleyn especially. She must have been a person of great inner strength, and her daughter’s later reign reflects on her in that strength. Anne, in some sense, triumphs through Elizabeth I.
This was a very interesting topic. I always assumed that scaffold speeches were a social norm of the times. Plus, during the reign of Henry VIII particularly, retribution on the family of the condemned would be a huge consideration. Thanks Dr. Kat! 😃
My imagination is running wild with the idea of how they infact delivered those speeches... The intonation and which words they rested on... the nuance.
Two actors' different renditions of Cromwell's speech for example could portray two wildly different emotions.
Also... it hurts my OCD that they used to use 'U' & 'V' the other way round.
I shant sleep now
The worry for the family is what I always assumed caused people to be so poised on the scaffold. I think because I'm always so worried that anything I do will negatively impact my loved ones, I tend to assume that of others as well.
It never occurred to me that any of the condemned could have hoped for final reprieve. Knowing that makes me pity them even more.
Henry VIII had so many of his friends and favorites executed, that I don´t believe many condemmed victims had any illusions left. Anne Boleyn had seen her brother executed, and remembered how Henry had treated his daughter Mary after he fell out with her mother. She must have worried about her family. And feared for her daughter.
This topic was, as usual, very well covered. I always believed that the condemned felt that a last minute reprieve would be available but the thought of protecting their families was upper most in their minds as well. Thinking of the egos of the monarchs at this time just confirms the old adage about power. I never would have wanted anything to do with the inner circle. It was a spider web!!
Agree. They fought tooth and nail to get into the inner circle but it was a very dangerous place to be.
👑Another interesting video! It does seem so counter-intuitive of how we might act today - firmly, declaring our innocents. But, I think you are spot on with the idea that (1) the expectation was to "die a good death" and show forgiveness before meeting death and (2) they may not have wanted to bring further shame or punishment on their families. Thanks for all you do to bring this content to us!
Excellent video today! I'm left wondering though, is there documentation of someone receiving a reprieve in the moments before their beheading?
I think that people were concerned for their family and their status. That they weren't brought low by association. I read somewhere that Rafe sadler and Richard Cromwell were unusual in that they continued to say positive things about Thomas Cromwell after he died. It was risky because it suggested Henry was wrong to execute him. Henry was a tyrant and everyone must have known it. They were all terrified of him and worried they would be next. Condemned people were doing all that was left to them to protect their families.
Sometimes when I watch an Anne Boleyn execution scene I like to imagine that her speech was sarcastic. I highly doubt it would’ve been as she was no doubt concerned about her daughter but still it’s kinda funny imagining king Henry’s face when told about her sarcasm.
I can totally see Anne Boleyn hoping for a last minute reprieve. She probably thought, yes, he was viscious and vindictive, but he had loved her before so surely he will show her mercy? I also wonder at what point she lost all hope.
When you consider that anointed Queens had been set aside and “put away” before but never executed, I think that could only have added to her hope too 😞
Catherine of Aragon was educated, beautiful, charitable, royal, dignified, and pious.
Anne Boleyn was charming, clever, witty, ambitious and fiery.
Jane Seymour was calm, kind, meek, but I think also she had ambition.
Katherine Howard was supposedly bright, young, naive, pretty, outgoing, etc.
Catherine Parr was no doubt every bit the intelligent woman that his previous wives were.
Anne of Cleves had to have been charming and delightful, and smart, to survive Henry.
At the end of the day, I see women who Henry did not deserve. 😅
I have always found Katherine Howard's need to see & practice w the block beforehand to be incredibly endearing- & a rather smart way to reconcile oneself to a terrifying fate. I wonder if any one else requested the same before or after her. Fabulous telling as always Dr. Kat! Thank you!
Editing to add that I think the reasons given were very likely why people did not rail against the ruler in their last speech. And although I understand that (only) the removal of one's head was a privilege in those times, it's still a ghastly demise.
I agree I thought this had a couple of perspectives one that yeah sure she wanted it to be quick and fast so that she could do all she was able to - to make it so - but also she had reconciliation and peace with what was about to happen. I think this was a very wise move on her part. just to imagine what was about to happen so that she could in a sense “follow the rules” as it were.
Hans Scholl, one of the main people in the White Rose resistance against Hitler had some amazing last words before he was beheaded: "Es lebe die Freiheit! (Long live freedom)"
Probably a combination of wanting a dignified death and wanting to protect their loved ones from royal wrath.
You are so lovely to listen to, one almost forgets some of the horrific content! I think the contrite speeches were to demonstrate political correctness of the time and perhaps be seen in a more sympathetic light after passing. I’ve always had a sense of “I’m getting the last word” tone to Anne Boleyn’s speech. Not sure why.
This was fascinating. I thought the condemned did not speak out against the ruler to protect their family alone, but I'd never considered the psychological parts you brought up here, the idea that they would want to be genuinely be without sin, without anger or resentment, before their deaths. Fascinating!!! Thank you Dr. Kat :)
😢What a fascinating video. I almost feel like the reasons are all of the above, but primarily I think they were trying to protect their friends and family from Henry’s wrath.
Catherine Howard…that poor girl. 😟 One cannot but feel compassion for all the women entangled with Henry, but Boleyn was at least a tough little scrapper. And Catherine of Aragon kept her dignity and her head, as did Cleves. But Howard was vulnerable, hardly more than a child. ⛓️
Yep, he expected her not to act like a child but married one.
Unfortunately you weren't considered a child once you were old enough to marry. Any time from about 12 up. You were expected to act like an adult even though these days we don't expect teenagers to be very adult like in behaviour.
The ones Henry executed were not foreign princesses. He was smart enough to know that if he had executed Catherine of Aragon or Anne of Cleves, he'd be embroiled in a war. He could get away with trumped up charges on Anne Boelyn and Catherine Howard; their male relatives weren't rulers of other countries.
Dear God, I’d never considered the last possible reason for the monarch-praising scaffold speech. The hope of a reprieve…and the moment of realization that it would not come. It adds to the horror of the idea of the public execution for me, and heightens my respect for those who did indeed “make a good death.”
Thank you for yet another informative video, Dr. Kat. I have always admired how Anne Boleyn delicately avoided any mention of her guilt in her scaffold speech. She submitted to her death sentence, but she did not discuss her case in any way. Her fulsome praise of King Henry VIII was probably given to save her family from further retribution, but Anne's refusal to admit her guilt to the (outrageous) charges was noted at the time. Famous Last Words indeed!
Henry was a monster. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Shame he didn't live by the maxim that with great power came great responsibility but there again he failed at his primary responsibility in fathering many legitimate robust lusty sons. The double standards of his lascivious philandering was astounding. Poor young Kat Howard.
Thanks for this! Love your channel ❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊
I’m so happy to see another Dr. Kat presentation. I’ve been offline for four days due some horrible storms that tore through the Midwest in the U.S. I just got the power back on and I am thoroughly enjoying Dr. Kat and my central air conditioner. It’s been 90 degrees Fahrenheit or 32 degrees Celsius, so it has been a tough few days.😊
I so enjoy these, thank you!
I just named my new kitten Sir Walter Raleigh lol. He is dapper and quite fancy in dress, as he is a Tuxedo Cat and has a particularly debonair feel about him. I love all English History, especially anything to do with Royals and their courtiers. So, I adore each of these poor souls and commend them and greatly respect their dignity and honor in their last moments and with their last words.
As always, your storytelling is stellar and your topics intriguing. I could listen to you speak about history for the rest of my days, gladly and with a smile. Good day, Dr. Kat
I didn’t want to research gallows but I love and revere your program as telling of History that quite frankly, I found horribly boring as a child. I now seek Historical UA-cam as yours is my favoured of all. The timbre of your voice in its pleasant tone is relaxing to me. Though the subject or topic not quite the stuff of my bedtime hours. Thank you Dr Kats.🌺👏🏼🌺
Brilliant, thanks
The example of those discussed, at the moment of their dreadful demise, displays a nobility of spirit far greater than the king who demanded their lives.
But of course. Henry surrounded himself with remarkable people. Remarkable people who in general easily out-shinned him. Wolsey was a better king, because let's be honest, he did the whole job by himself for around 20 years. Cromwell was a better administrator and councilman. Anne Bolelyn was more intelligent and charming. Thomas More was a better Christian and humanist. Katherine Howard had more bravery at 18 then he had his entire life.
Most interesting topic. I have often wondered how a person can go through an absolutely awful and terrifying experience with such grace and dignity. And not spit vitriol about the king. What strength these people had. Thank you.😢
The idea that Catharine Howard and Anne Boleyn were only 6 years apart is just horrific. How do wives 2, 3, 4, and 5 all fit in that period?? Henry was gross.
🪓So sad that people had to endure this fear…. Especially the ones who were innocent.
Thanks for another incredible video! You always deliver!
Have there been Speeches that have not been so demure and foregiving?
This was a great topic and very interesting.
BTW!
The addition of color in your selected tops, the fine application and vivid color in your lipstick and the generally excellent quality of your new camera (as well as the detail of your bookcase and it’s contents) present as lovely, a delight even.
This was so very interesting Dr. Kat! I am not an historian as are you but I always assumed that the condemned would give their speech to protect their survivors. Henry VIII seems to have been so vindictive, I would worry for those I loved. Thank you Ma’am for your insights!
Thank you once again! 👑
Wonderful segment! Just curious...Was anyone ever granted a last minute reprieve from execution?
I was wondering the same thing. 🙂
I was wondering exactly the same thing. Are there records of last minute pardons in Tudor England, like with Dostoevsky in Tsarist Russia.
I think we would’ve heard about it by now if there were any last minute reprieves on the actual scaffold. Hollywood wouldn’t have been able to pass that up. Think of the drama!
Dr. Kat excellent video. I have often wondered how authentic scaffold speeches were. I like your explanation why people could have the poise to speak clearly and not be raving.🔥
Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury didn't find beheading particularly merciful.
I think concern for your surviving family members would definitely play a part in the final words. It's pretty much all that would keep me 'meek' in the moments of my death!
History is written by the victor; I always wonder about the accuracy of these final speeches considering those recording them were likely trying to avoid the king's wrath.
I have wondered the same thing. On reflection, however, there would have been many, many witnesses, and word would soon get round if the record was not accurate. Walter Raleigh's speech is a case in point. The government would not have had to argue against it, had they been able to simply suppress his words, or substitute a more acceptable speech.
An interesting video, I thoroughly enjoyed watching. Thank you. 😊I go along with your hypotheses, but the one about the hope of last minute reprieve I found interesting as that was one I hadn't thought of myself, whereas this seems so evident and natural. I hope you were never in the situation where you were fired from a job whether it was out of organisational necessity or for just reasons (I was, I shamefacedly admit) and even if for an infinitesimal moment I hoped that it wasn't true or maybe they were going to rethink their decision. I think this happens to everybody in a similar situation. One additional reason for those eloquent and merciful speeches is also the simple fact that they were able to. I didn't research Cromwell's case, but both queens had not been tortured and came onto the scaffold in a good physical condition in contrast to Anne Askew who was in no condition to give speeches when she was tied to the stake. After having been treated the way she was, she probably was beyond all hope. Looking forward to your next video. 👍
Loved this video! Thank you, Dr Kat! 🎤
As always, this video was fascinating. ❤👍
I always felt these poor people were well aware that the wrath of King Henry was easily piqued and he could, with very little provocation, pour it out onto their loved ones. It is something extra to dislike him for, in my opinion. Not only was he taking their lives, he was taking their last words from them.
Good Morning Dr. Kat et al. from the Divided😢 States of America.
This was very thought provoking. It breaks my heart when they knew they had no hope.
They all gave dignity and grace, good on them because I'd be like a tell-all episode of a reality TV show on the scaffold. I'd point out everyone and give the juicy gossip and sweet tea on them all for my hour special. If I'm going down, everyone is. And then I'd graciously take my position on the chopping block and peace out as burning it down. ✌🏾 They would need those drums - their Oscars music equivalent - to started when I cause my discourse. Lol.
I believed their fear of making recriminating speeches against their persecutors or the King was their fear for the protection of other family members. Thank you for addressing this subject.
What a wonderful video essay about a topic I've frequently considered! Thanks so much, Dr. Kat! 👑
Thank you, Dr. Kat ( @Readingthepast ) for this very thought provoking and, informative topic! I was late ⏰ to the live stream chat unfortunately- so was unable to ask you a question 🙋🏼♀️ I had while watching later.
It sounded like both Anne Boylen and, especially Thomas Cromwell were given their last rites from a Catholic Church perspective. I know it was quite complicated during Henry VIII’s reign. However, the speech by Cromwell at the scaffold sounded like he was in some way wanting to make it known to everyone he was dying that day as a Catholic. What do you think? Thank you for any answers you have time to reply.
Cromwell was an evil man.
@@franm.8343 • Definitely agree with you! I was just wondering if the “big protestant” proponents changed back to actual Catholics at the end.
Thank you for another wonderful video. I was one who often wondered if the Scrappled speeches where to save their families and friends. Because of course they are left behind. 🌹🌹🌹
Very happy to see you speaking about this topic
Another excellent video. No wonder you are my favorite person on UA-cam. I agree with you and a lot of my fellow commenters that most people praised Henry in their last speeches in order to protect the loved ones they left behind.
I think this ties in with the "good death" theory, but I read an article a few years ago that speculated that Anne may have had a SITE - Suffering Induced Transformational Experience. According to the article when people are experiencing significant trauma or turmoil which facing beheading would qualify for in my book. People facing death "may experience a ‘break up’ as the ego disintegrates and a new sense of self emerges; a sense of self which is fearless and profoundly peaceful".
I can believe that part of praising the sovereign, who may also be your accuser, to be very much part of your last hope for a reprieve.
In the " Last Boleyn Sister," Anne is portrayed at looking at her sister, who has used her last wish from Henry to save her sister and it's been denied.
She shakes her head at Anne about half way through her speech.
It's at this point Anne reconises that her last hope of living has gone.
Yet she gives her sister a silent nod and continues her speech unwavering! Such a strong portrayal and it gets me everytime.😢
Love your vids Dr Kat!!! Informative and fascinating as always. You never disappoint 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I had heard about a noble convict's concern for their surviving family, but I didn't know about medieval ideas about a good death. Hugs for you, Dr. Kat! I wish I could take you out for lunch or a cup of tea. I hope life is good to you.
Wonderful video! You've brought up some reasons for scaffold speeches that I never considered before. Food for thought.
People had relatives that would be attacked by the king if they spoke badly about him.
I just love your videos on History. I am enthralled to know more about your work, and after seeing the “come to work with me” video, it would be fantastic to see an episode on you in your work as a costume historian . Thank you for your dedication Dr Kat. I for one truly appreciate what you do and am very much looking forward to more and more videos from you 😊🙏
FASCINATING topic! I have always wondered about this! So many wrongly accused and usually never a peep in protest.
I love your videos and listen to them while working on my computer. I am fascinated by the Tudor period. You are such a charming presenter - so easy to listen to. I love how you suggest different interpretations of history. I really can’t say enough good things and compliments. I hope you will be expanding your presentations to one or two hour programs and that they are shown on television. You deserve the wider audience that would bring.
They praised the king because they were leaving family and friends behind that they desperately wanted to protect from the king’s reprisals. All the Tudors were monsters, arresting and executing the innocent as they pleased. Henry VIII executed Margaret Pole only to get back and at her son Reginald Pole and Elizabeth I arrested Raleigh only because of her jealousy and anger that she would no longer be the only adored woman in his life. The much-vaunted “English justice” leaves me cold.
I can only think that perhaps at least some of the decorum was a bit of insurance so that any heirs or family would not be treated badly. I can only hope that whatever terror or panic felt at the last was mercifully brief.
If you’ve read Alison Weir’s Tudor Queens novels, particularly Anne Boleyn’s, the terror at the end was palpable, and the author herself was not able to sleep for some time after writing it.
So very interesting. Thank you 👍
New subscriber to your channel. I concur with you and many here, that one needed to be polite and calm so that your loved ones were protected. The condemned knew what kind of person the king was, cruel, tyrannical and cunning. Best to leave this world seemingly meek and timid. Excellent conversation, thank you!
All of your rationale have helped me view the speeches in a different light. Thank you.
Dr Kat, the possibility you mentioned at the end is heart wrenching. It's the first time I've heard it, and now I can't stop thinking about it!
Fascinating subject sad but fascinating 😢
For a "true believer" - I assume they fully believed they were going to meet their maker.
As for being obedient and gracious to the ruler - they probably wanted to make sure their families were safe and retained as much favour as possible.
Another excellent video! This has always been a topic of interest for me, so it’s great to see it covered in such detail and consideration 💖
A wonderful video as usual. Thank you!
👑👠🐦⬛ I agree with your thoughts Dr Kat. I can also see someone perhaps frightened that, should they speak harshly, they might be taken away to face a worse alternative. If I’d been in their positions, though I’d love to have given the king what for in my speech, I know I’d be thinking of those left behind, and I’d want my last words to align with how I wanted to be remembered.🙏
As always Dr.Kat. I come here for entertainment and knowledge. And, each time I leave I am quite happy to have a discussion to speak with my friends about and I have learn something new. Thank you!! See you in the next video!!
Love love love your videos. Always interesting and so informative 😊
Your channel is by far one of my favorites. Thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Always thought it was to save their family from wrath. Opening my eyes to the thought they made have had hope is 😥😥. Thank you for bring a new perspective. Happiness and health to you x
Is it possible that execution speeches toed the line in the hope that the King would not punish family members, eg through confiscation of property?
In an age of such chivalry, when deportment was so scrutinized and valued, being the "bigger person" in your last moments may have been really valued as the way to go, securing your good character to the end in this life and in the afterlife that you're just about to enter. As we've just witnessed in the recent coronation, swearing your fealty to the king was a really big deal. It shows your recognition of what is set out in Scripture about respecting those in authority because they've come to be where they are through God (I Peter 2:13 & 14). It again shows that you respect the Bible and that you are of good character. Compared with people who, in their last words were still railing against the king, these speeches must have made a much better impression. Maybe they were hoping that the attendees, at least, would believe in their innocence, even if they couldn't win a reprieve.
I agree - these things would have been of enormous importance. And simply "not looking like a coward" would have been a priority, especially if you were of high social status. Cowardly behaviour would have disgraced your family for generations.
Thanks. Love youŕ videos, Dr. Kat !! Jeffrey
I am very grateful for your continued support! Thank you ☺️
From the Internet: "Thoms de Mahy was a French aristocrat sentenced to be hanged. Upon reading his death warrant he remarked, 'I see that you have made three spelling mistakes'." What panache!
What a great video. I found it interesting to listen to people's last words, and the strength and courage of all of them. But I have never heard Thomas Cromwells last words, which to me, sounded like a last minute confession. I don't think he missed anything and he owned it all. I have to give him full marks for bravery 😊💖