RED DAWN | What Happens When Propaganda Fails
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- "Red Dawn" tries and fails to work as a hot-blooded piece of American propaganda, and in doing so becomes something far more interesting. A movie that teaches the exact opposite of its intended message.
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#reddawn #reddawnremake #russiavsamerica - Фільми й анімація
EDITORS NOTE: AS I EXPLICITLY STATE, I ACTUALLY DO LIKE "RED DAWN" FOR WHAT IT IS. So, maybe you should refrain from posting threats and commenting with blindingly racist tirades as a response to me repeating the directors own words about this being 'propaganda'. Those posts will just get reported and erased immediately, so you're wasting your weirdness on an empty void.
Fun fact about this video! When I was editing it, my computer died and I ended up having to remake the entire thing from scratch!
So, what movies do you think messed up their messaging to an almost comical degree?
Sucker Punch comes to mind. I think the intent is good, and could work if a few things were swapped around like Oscar Isaacs character was combined with the mentor figure, but . . . shit.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - "Sucker Punch" is the most misogynistic film ever made about why misogyny is bad
Wall Street
I just discovered your channel this week and it is criminally overlooked.
To answer your question both Pan's Labyrinth and How to train your Dragon fall in a similar trap, in which they condemn a behavior (blind obedience and understanding were your antagonist is coming from) and just contradict it on the final act.
Ofelia was just blindly following the Pan on one and in the other The Dragons weren't really bad and shouldn't be murdered but understood except if you are the big alpha dragon in which case violence is the answer, the second movie falls in a similar trap.
@@perfectallycromulent Oh God think about all the yuppies Wall Street Traders wannabes that have quoted that movie.
It is right up there with Scarface of movies that its fan base completely misses the point of the movie.
Fun fact, you mention the US invasion of Afghanistan, but not the Soviet invasion, which had only taken place a few years prior to this film.
The insurgency and incursion present in the film also unintentionally resembles Vietnam a lot, which was at least a decade before red dawn was released
Soviet union was invited to intervene by the sovereign elected government of Afghanistan.
Wasn't criticizing it, but it seems like a lack of basic historical knowledge of the time period, which is very relevant to the topic. @@Mortablunt
Except that they were fighting in Afghanistan to DEFEND the ruling communist government, against a guerilla force that had zero modern fighting capability (but somehow still won).
@@WarHammer1911A1 Commies lie bro, shits a religion to most of them. No blasphemy against holy father lenin.
One funny story about the making of the original movie... two CIA agents were carpooling to work one day, and a flatbed truck with a Soviet tank on it was driving the opposite way to take it to film a scene. The agents freaked out, turned around, and followed them all the way out to the middle of nowhere. They then demanded to know where they managed to get a Soviet tank from, and the props guy let them know it was just an old US WWII tank that they doctored up heavily. The vehicle prop builders were so good it fooled actual CIA agents!
Either that or it just shows how stupid the alphabet agencies(CIA) are.
You can fool anyone when there is fear propaganda abound
Or government agents aren't as smart as you think they are...
According to IMFDB, the production made the tank out of an M8A1 cargo tractor which was just a stretched M41 Walker Bulldog chassis.
Sounds like a bogus story made up by the movie's PR department. The CIA would never be *that* incompetent.
Ever heard of Checkpoint Charlie in West Berlin, during the Cold War?
In 1974, a US soldier stole a tank from his base and drove it through the East German border guardpost.
After half an hour or so, a US lieutenant was allowed to pass into East Berlin after negotiating with them.
Eventually, the US soldier who went on a tank rampage into East Berlin was arrested and brought back to West Berlin.
Sometime later, the East Berlin authorities gave back the US tank.
No shots fired at any point during this remarkable event.
One aspect I always liked about the original Red Dawn was how it managed to add some humanity to both sides. The Wolverines were just kids fighting against a hostile invasion, asked to do the impossible, while among the Soviets we saw them having doubts of their own and having started the war due to a famine crisis back in Russia.
It hits on the true tragedy of war which is people killing one another and doing monstrous things, but at the end of the day it is still a person.
Its one of the aspects I really liked about World In Conflict: Soviet Assault, when the perspective flipped and you saw from the eyes of the enemy. All these people dying because greedy old men said so.
Wars always start because greedy old men said so. Then the vets come back and the next generation can see what hell they went through and how the greedy old men refuse to take care of them. The greedy old men start to whine and complain that less people want to fight their wars because they are too soft, but say their kids can't fight because of bone spurs or flat feet. The greedy old men want to spend young poor lives like a fistful of pennies. Wow, this was kind of a tangent, sorry about that!
i was just thinking about how world in conflict did much the same thing.
The movie was influenced by the German invasions of France and Yugoslavia in WW2.
No, it was just the (warm blooded) Cuban leader who had “doubts.” I find this movie hilarious and entertaining in its ridiculous 80s right wing viewpoint
@@tommym321 Shit! That’s Supafly Ron O’Neill. Him and Curtis Mayfield probably just joined the Cuban army to get away from The Man.
Interesting take, though I don’t think that the movie tells the story you think it does. To me, it’s message is: war is hell and home is worth fighting for. There’s unapologetic patriotism, dumb 80s action, and humanized enemies.
I agree with you. Though the situation is pretty unrealistic and silly, this movie is a great action movie, I like the patriotism, but it still makes the Soviets and Cubans seem like real people with motivations beyond "I hate freedom!" I wouldn't say it fails at being propaganda more so that it's more nuanced but still makes me feel patriotic and root for its main characters. Doesn't need to be ridiculously militaristic in order to still serve its purpose.
Lol
War and homes are fictional. They made waste in an area marketed as home?
@@edwardowens19 "I hate freedom" - lol, I am sure native Americans and blacks enjoyed their freedom. A country with most people in prison per 1000 people. I am also sure Hispanics that are cutting your lawns, washing your dishes, cleaning your pools and fixing your roofs are all enjoying their freedom. I am sure they are thankful for all the 936 coups that the CIA made in their home country before it turned into cartel horror and they had to run for life from there.
You Muricans are such moЯons, I swear.
Cuban general turned out to be one of those most likeable characters in the movie.
Yes, he was and there was a practical reason for that in how the story was told. Most people do not seem to get this part, and it only works if Ernesto Bella is a real human being and not a cardboard cutout villain. He represents the morale of soldiers fighting in America. He is not Russian, he is an ally, and by the end of the movie, his morale has been broken. If a guy like him breaks, then most of his men probably are feeling pretty much the same or worse. In terms of the movie, he's the guy who tells you the Wolverines have accomplished their mission, even if they did not realize that is what it was. All of these subtle levels like this are why this movie is pure genius. It is why negative reviews like this one only tell me that the reviewer is not as smart as John Milius, and little else. If they don't understand these basic points, they sure don't get the movie. Propaganda ROFL.
As a European i think you are way too negative thinking "its just propaganda" considering you see both evil and humanity on both sides, i mean the good guys shoot POWs, Soviets retaliate against civilians, its in fact grizzly realistic, yes the action scenes are typicall 1980s so what, the biggest issue of the movie (and frankly any form of media that gets into the whole "soviets invade the US") is that its very hard to make the initial invasion plausible.
Also with the current war in Ukraine an how the Russians behave, the idea of Soviets landing and randomly blasting civilians isnt far fetched at all...
You are a textbook case of propaganda working very well.
Russians caused less civilian casualties than Ukrainian friendly fire.
Got to love that there's a duality between every anti-war movie ending up loved by jingoists because they are accidentally cool and jingoistic movies ending up loved by the anti-war crowd because they are accidentially critical.
gives me starship troopers flashbacks. where a satire of fascism where the whole thing is shot like a propaganda movie while hinting at under skin problems, actually portrays a society where equality has been achieved between all races and sexes. that humanity has united into one major government and people don't even have to worry about being called up for military service in a war that could see humanities extinction if they don't sign up. where prosthetics are fully functional and the disabled see no mistreatment because of it and people care enough about the right to vote they think you should have to earn it.
they tried to make space fascism sexy and did a damn good job of it
@@AE-wv8jdstarship troopers was never about fascism. Nor does the government described fit as a fascist government in any way. Just because some drug addled director wanted to play subversion, does not change the materials intent.
@@bonnevillebagger9147 did you watch the same film? did you not catch the SS uniforms or that the drug addicted lived through a nazi occupation?
Dude, it’s a book. That a drugged out director tried to twist into his own propaganda.
@@bonnevillebagger9147 I know of the book, I have read it. You read my comment and you evidently have the mental capacity to reply, so you are clearly playing dumb to the fact I'm making reference to the film of the same name.
Fascism is shit and the piss take of it follows a theme of this video, that being satire can easily be fucked up and convay an opposing message to directorial intentions
I remember watching this movie in the US Army back in the 1990s and our first sergeant asks what the heck happened did the US Armed Forces go on strike. Interesting how they were able to mass on our borders without detection. We got sent to Kuwait in 1994 because we detected Iraqis massing on the border and thought they might try to invade again.
My father was there as part of the RAF
Then they managed to do it again with an even less impressive army in the OG Modern Warfare 2, managing to mass troops in the Atlantic for an East Coast invasion.
Yeah according to the pilot in the movie the Soviets used civilian aircraft to cover their airborne operation but that doesn't really explain the mass of ground troops that came in with them.
@@spencegame and all the heavy equipment they had.
@@spencegameinsurgents snuck in before through the southern border and attacked bases and infrastructure then the armor just rolled on through the border. Col. Tanner explains it in the movie
Us Govt: "It is ok, we have now cracked the propaganda movie formula. It is called the MCU."
Look kids! You can either be a dead arms dealing capitalist like Tony Stark, or a desperately alienated and alone soldier who was forgotten by his government like Captain America
@@inframeout or a disability brainwashed POW veteran...
Ahhhhhhhhh DC Fan tears. Delicious
I disagree that it's propaganda. It's fictional scenarios that revolve around what is happening in the world currently, which makes sense, people are more likely to watch such movies. If someone feels encouraged to join the military over such a movie, what's wrong with that? I certainly don't think most of these types of movies are trying to get people to join the military, nor does the government have it's hand in the making of such films. Think of all the movies that came out during the war in Afghanistan, of course some were inspired to join because of them, but does not mean that was a purpose of the movie.
@@inframeout I have to say a few more things here, respectfully :) You're calling the movie 'propaganda', yet not only is it based on a fictional scenario... there is a ton of truth in it - What do I mean by that?
Red Dawn is happening in Ukraine right now. The war crimes have been, and are continuing to happen by the Russians. The movie barely scratches the surface of what Russia has been doing to the people of Ukraine. Tell the people of Ukraine that Red Dawn is just "propaganda". Furthermore, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that other countries in Europe may become pulled into the war... That is not 'propaganda'.
Lastly, the drama/acting/character progression in the movie. It is a war film! How many war films can you think of that had so many emotional scenes, some elements (I say *some*) of lite character progression, and what I would call often realistic reactions of the main cast to the situation they were thrown into? Rambo series? The 2nd Red Dawn? Saving Private Ryan? American Sniper? Lone Survivor? List goes on... I don't think any of those movies did as much with the main characters than Red Dawn. In fact, only war movie I can think of that had outstanding character progression/acting/drama, is a 6 hour made for TV series called 'Band Of Brothers'. I personally think overall Red Dawn is outstanding in the acting/drama/character progression for being a full-on war film, and I think it's an outstanding movie overall.
I loved the original. It was full of good performances (now seen much later by me as an adult as actually way better than you could have predicted), up and coming actors that were the "it" young adults of the time, and actually had a pretty good story. What it also had was the spine to even make this kind of movie knowing it would be controversial as hell and would be seen a propaganda.
The sequel is almost an ironic joke of the original, not just because it was a terrible movie that was even more fantastical than the first's premise, but because they hilariously caved to the Chinese, which is the exact opposite of making a good ol fashioned propaganda movie. It was almost anti-propaganda. It was us basically announcing we are now so soft we cannot even make another country the antagonist without caving immediately to their demands. Yeah Merica! We cave to those chinese! LOL It is an ironic joke.
It's really is such a camp movie, but there genuinely are some great performances in it. Specifically Swayze's and Booth's performances.
Their caving to the Chinese just goes to show how unamerican Hollywood is.
U.s.a become woke! They scare to antagonizing china now? BWAHAHAHAHA.... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👎🏻
The original Red Dawn wasn't supposed to be a propaganda piece.
The producer was adamantly against open hostilities, and specifically chose the youth found in Charlie Sheen and all them, to show the cost of what would happen should such a war come home.
And while I'm sure he believed in defending one's people and nation, he wanted to portray that such a war, where we see kids fighting, is the reality of what would happen should such an extreme scenario occur. If it was a propaganda piece, the ending and the very important aspects of storytelling would have seen the protagonists having a very unrealistic victory over the invaders.
Propaganda is not designed around showing our glaring flaws, but hyperfocusing on the enemy's. Rocky and other such films do that incrementally.
Red Dawn, on the other, just shows the misery of an American Insurgency. One that mirrors the misery of the Soviet Afghan War.
Edit:
It should also be added that the reason why they ended up fighting was not because of patriotism.
It was anger and hate. The two young women fight because they'd already been raped by Russians prior to tagging along (if anyone remembers the comment Matt makes to one of the girls to which they get REALLY angry "What's up your ass?").
One of the young men absolutely hates the Russians when he finds out they killed his Dad (the shop owner at the beginning who gave them some guns, some ammo, food, and equipment to survive outside the occupation zone, in the mountains) for "supporting guerrillas and illegal insurgents".
Jed and Matt have reason to fight because their father bids them to do so. He raised them and told them that, if he were in their position, he would do precisely that. He knew he was going to die. And when Matt witnesses his father's death, alongside Arturo's dad, in retaliation for the deaths of a handful of Russians they were happened upon.
Arturo has every reason to fight because they killed his father.
The one with the most objection, is the one who still has someone to return to, in this case, his own dad, who is the Mayor of Calumet, CO. Which also becomes the flash point in which the team begins to break under the strain of conducting their guerrilla war. They're tired, cold, hungry, bitter, and feel as if its not going to end any time soon.
Save the one individual, every person present has a reason to fight, because they have nothing left to lose.
I love the film because its poignant in that they use a lot of references to the reality we live in now. The Cubans and Soviet Attache talk about "Hearts and Minds" to which the Soviet Officer tells him that the US used it in Vietnam and lost. To which after that comment, the Soviet-US Cooperation Building blows up.
Red Dawn is both a lesson and a thought experiment.
I grew up about 5 miles from The US Naval Academy. I saw the original “Red Dawn” at a 2 screen theater. There was a group of Midshipmen in the back of the theater. Whenever a Russian was killed or blown up, those Middies cheered like The USA had won The Super Bowl.
That's bad ass. That the reaction you want from your war fighters.
Based.
Gotta love the Navy
apologies if I don't get the joke, but does the US not always win the super bowl?
@@icekitty11👏👏👏👏👏
I always took Red Dawn as an action movie at face value.
That is what makes it an effective piece of propaganda, Nazi Germany made two types of propaganda movies with one being the obvious stuff and the other being even more subtle then Red Dawn.
The first time I'd ever even heard of this movie was when I was stationed in Germany. My company was tired, wet and dirty from taking part in Reforger. We were herded into the base theatre at Reese Kaserne and got to watch Red Dawn. When it was over we were ready to go right back out to the field. I guess the movie achieved its goal. Its a silly movie by today's standard, but from the point of view of soldiers in the military during the cold war, this movie was perfection.
the coolest part of Red Dawn was how Superfly turned himself from
New Jack City coke dealer to a Cuban Colonel
Hes your Cuban man...can ya dig it.
Still two pieces of trash
I was like "damn that new Turner and Hooch movie looks weirdly violent", then I was like "... wait, that's probably Red Dawn"
Definitely right to acknowledge just how great Powers Booth is here. For all of the pyrotechnics, his campfire exposition is the certainly film's highlight.
Yup. A rare example where telling rather than showing was absolutely the right call
Powers Booth is a powerhouse actor. (Pardon the pun.)
There was a 2010 Australian version of Red Dawn called "Tomorrow ,When the War Began" which was a far superior movie than the 2012 Red Dawn remake.
Agreed. Though they're all guilty pleasures of mine. My holistic, redneck, organic farmer uncle introduced me to Red Dawn as a kid. Im disappointed in myself for not wondering how the CUBANS and Russians got to MONTANA So quickly and easily, even tho i was like 10 yrs old.
Sometimes it's fun to just suspend your disbelief, get some popcorn, and revel in the fact that we were lucky enough to be born in the richest, most powerful nation in history during its zenith.
My uncle also introduced me to Sword in the Stone cartoon. Both Sword in the Stone and R. D. were viewed as fantasies.
Nearly everything is greater than the 2012 Red Dawn
The remake was horrible! The original was outstanding
bro, even morbius was better than the 2012 piece of shit, its not exactly a high bar
@@burtan2000
They got there so quickly via airborne drops from aircraft disguised as commercial aircraft.
Watch the movie again and maybe you'll catch Powers Boothe's character explaining it to the kids when they ask him what'd happened at the outbreak of the war.
If the director intended for Red Dawn to be propaganda. He kind of failed it. It's really the same as an alien invasion movie only with real people and real guns. Politics really doesn't enter into it and the only reason the attacking force is the Soviet Union is because that was the only nation that could conceivably pull off a full scale invasion of the US at the time the film was made.
'is a comunazi cartoon' to be fair in the movie there are debates among the occupiers about how to act towards the locals. Executions or a more lenient policy. Its certainly a lot more than the remake does.
I love the original Red Dawn. Unlike other 80s shoot-'em-up flag wavers -- Rambo: First Blood II being an example -- I enjoy rewatching this one. The overall premise of the film is, of course, totally absurd, which makes for great discussions among fans of the movie. Milius is a fantastic writer, and the bulk of the main performances are still poignant. The one-liners make for great memes.
I've always thought of it through a quirky lens, though. I think many of its critics at the time missed the point that it gives away a wink early on that the whole project is somewhat of a
Milius thought challenge: Could he, like a Classical Era symphonist, make a paint-by-numbers homage to the basic architecture of a propaganda film that would succeed in remaining memorable years later? The wink comes in the film when the boys sneak back into town to gather information. As they cross the main drag downtown, you see down the street the billboard above the town cinema. The theater is screening Alexander Nevsky, which next to Triumph of the Will and Battleship Potemkin ranks as one of the greatest propaganda films ever made. Is Milius letting us in on inside joke? I'll note that some of the scenes often cited by critics as agitprop -- specifically the one where the Soviet soldier pries the pistol from the pickup driver's "cold, dead hands," is one that both my left and right-leaning friends find hilarious. It was clearly meant to be sardonically humorous.
As others have noted, the writing generally gives a pretty humanist take on the whole episode. The film does not paint war as a fun, patriotic romp (here's looking at you, Chuck Norris), as you see the heavy psychological toll it takes on all of the main characters. In that regard, its writing and drama fits well with many other classic war films. Milius doesn't set out to answer any philosophical or moral questions of Why War? He simply accepts it as chaos unleashed and then writes a drama about the characters caught within that reality. You could take the basic plot of the Wolverines' story and transplant it to Chechnya, Afghanistan, the Balkan wars, or Ukraine today and it would work just as well -- better even, as they involve an historical setting of partisans fighting against an invading aggressor.
I had and still have zero interest in watching the remake, as that is not remotely a movie that could be remade, and most remake attempts are bloody awful, so my sympathy goes out to the reviewer for expending precious time suffering through it.
John Milius is a genius
Yea paragliders would never fly into a dense civilian population to further a political agenda… oh wait.
This is why Russia tries to kill as many soldiers in front of them ,so that they can not just defeat their army but also crush their ability to fight in the first place,the War will only end when the Ukrainians surrender or when their people rise up against their illegitimate government who will now send anyone so that they have recover their losses,this is the same government who brought suffering to the Russians,the Ukrainian population since then has dropped by 66% from the invasion
I think at the very least he did this unconsciously or the directors like subconscious mind connected some dots somehow without necessarily thinking about it to hard.
Ukraine not really, at least right now it’s mostly conventional warfare.
In the Film, will always remember the reply to the "Who is on our side." Answer "600 million Chinese". Question "I thought there were 1 Billion". answer "there were".. The true face of war.....
Powers Boothe delivers exposition like nobody else
@@inframeoutis this movie still propaganda after Ukraine is invaded by Russia.
@@MA-hn9vo
The conclusion is to destroy their armies and ultimately their combat morale,both sides basically thanks to drones ,no one is really safe
@@MA-hn9voAbsurd question
It's funny how Powers Boothe was casted 5 years later as the famous soviet general Vasily Chuikov in 2 part Stalingrad movie.
I think there's a critical misread of the movie in the middle of this video. You say how, in an attempt to be jingoistic propaganda, it shows just how awful and total a price it this fight would extract from Americans, but the whole point of the film was HEY WEAK LIBERAL LEADERSHIP, DONT LET THIS HAPPEN BY BEING SOFT ON THE COMMIES
You can disagree on the logic and the sentiment, but I think Milius delivered his intent straight up by showing just how awful this situation would turn out for our heroic teenage partisans, and where he would lay the blame.
I hope the fireman on the boat is okay.
For me, if the art piece can stand out on its own without a political message, it’s more than just propaganda. Casablanca is a well beloved and preserved film by many from how it’s written and shot despite its purpose of being a propaganda film to win hearts and support for war.
I think for something to be considered propaganda would require state funding or sponsorship. Otherwise anyone voicing any opinion about anything could be considered "propaganda".
Red Dawn was co-scripted by the Department of Defense. It is listed in the Complete List of Commercial Films Produced with Assistance from the Pentagon. By your definition it is propaganda.
lmao bro didn't take the two seconds to google before commenting
@@dr.woozie7500 I'm not saying red dawn isn't biased. I'm suggesting a narrowed definition of propaganda to avoid confusing thoughts and opinions freely expressed by individuals and thoughts and opinions engineered by the state. By its conventional definition almost every expressed idea could be considered propaganda and if everything is propaganda than nothing is.
@@dr.woozie7500 Act of Valor is a good example of state sponsored propaganda.
@@olly2515 Because it's conventional definition is correct.
Propaganda is not an inherently negative thing. But people will throw the word out to try to discredit ideas they don't like.
The original Red Dawn, either thru misinterpretation or Milius just plain misunderstanding his audience (too much Lithuanian anger?) and mismanaging his own story, became an anti-war, anti-communist, but pro-violence, antigovernment film of absolute genius. It was one of the first PG-13 movies, which should have been a Hard R, so parents misinterpreted how much violence was in this movie and how much was meant for 5 year old kids to see (I saw the film in the theater - when I was 7 - after my uncle dropped me and my 9 year old cousin off at the theater on a Football Sunday. After 2 hours of watching the massed armies of the USSR, Cuba (who had MAYBE 1 effective combat division), Mexico, and Nicaragua murder and pillage their way across the US Rockys for 2 hours, I was ready to fight back and kill some communists, as long as there would be a few girls from the elementary school to do it with. At 7 I thought a war would be something like an all day gym period, followed by sleepovers or camping -turns out the dudes who went to the Mideast said the wars of the 2000s were a lot like that. I guess I really did miss out!
Now In Ukraine you get a fpv drone in your face
Me thinks that the presenter is puffing up a mere escapist action-adventure cash cow.
"That dude from Turner and Hooch", excuse me I think you mean Drake and Josh. His magnum opus.
I thoroughly enjoyed Red Dawn, saw it at a drive-in when it came out. Of course this movie was propaganda. The Day After was on network television the year before, we were still deep in the Cold War. I had just graduated high school and full of patriotism pride, having tried but was denied in joining the Army
I feel like this would make a great drive-in movie!
Josh: Thor? Where's my capitalist propaganda?
Thor: Here, I made the government and military incompetent fools who are easily defeated by an impractical invasion. I also made the heroes a comunal group of rebels who hide and use terrorism to take down the invad.... Wait, I see the problem
Josh: OH, DO YA????
I saw the 2012 remake, not knowing it was a remake. When the North Koreans started landing, I couldn't suspend my disbelief. North Korea has 26 million people. If they emptied their country and left it vacant, such that every man, woman, and child (and infant) was armed and ready to occupy, the U.S. population would still outnumber them more than 10:1. It was completely ludicrous. Learning that it was originally China made a lot more sense in that regard. But it's really funny that such a jingoistic story had to change to sell more tickets overseas.
'People more upset with backgrounds checks than with murdered children'
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, you didn't have to do 'em like that lmao.
The premise is 100% unbelievable. But it's a fun movie.
The concept of Red Dawn would make for an awesome AMC Series.
>This failed as propaganda actually.
*coolest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life*
I remember when I saw this as a kid it scared me but now it's just silly because I know america won't be invaded that easily
There is something cheesy about more than like the Rambo movies.
That paratroop drop went better than Hostomel.
The Hostomel attack did go successful. There's literal GoPro combat footage from the 45th VDV here in UA-cam.
ua-cam.com/video/RUKVZBW3mhA/v-deo.html
The entire time, from Infil to Exfil. They had Air Support and even got resupplied and MEDEVAC.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Yes well, not every plan survives contact with the enemy but that matters little when Ukrainians are losing ground, men and equipment in significant numbers, daily. Daydreaming on one battles success won’t win the overall war.
Here's a fun fact about the original Red Dawn I know: That epilogue at the monument where you see a monument and a narrator kinda just says they won the war?
That was tacked on at the last moment as a result of a direct studio mandate.
The original ending was Swayze's character and his brother dying, then fading out after what was left of their squad made it to Free America. This would, least from what Milius has said, make the film leave it ambiguous as to whether or not the wolverines actually had ANY real impact on the conflict whatsoever, leave the resolution to the war up in the air, and heavily imply that all of the characters' deaths were utterly pointless.
No death spent in a righteous cause is pointless.
@@Raven_FrameAmen
Have you ever talked with men or women who were actually fighting for their country back. Try speaking to someone from the Balkans, The Kurds or even Ukrainians; they will tell you they would proudly give their life for their free country and it was not wasteful. Speaking from experience over 20 years in the military and working with them.
@@user-hb4dj2kt4w I would have to disagree; Ukrainians are surrendering en masse as we speak.
I would like you to please give your take on an Australian film and series entitled Tomorrow When the War Began. Similar premise to Red Dawn, but also makes ine swipe against the US. Namely Australia is invaded by a foreign power and the US don't lift a finger.
Yo i borrowed the the audio-book for that years ago it's good
Red dawn is one of my favorite movies and one of the best action movies ever. There’s this 2 hour video essay by rob ager on yt who sums it up better than I ever will
This brought back memories, thank you…
On another note, there was a Wolverines volunteer group fighting in Ukraine (obviously inspired by THIS movie) but we haven’t heard a thing from them since.
Because they got immediately bombed because they ratted out by 4channers who did some sleuthing.
Problem is its very hard to separate truth from fiction in this war. Anyone with a tiktok account and a uniform can upload a video and call himself the '5th batallion of the whatever army'. Often you can upload multiple videos and claim to be from various groups. Just wear a ski mask and you're done.Many of these groups are short lived and often consist of a few guys. Sometimes one guy.
It was probably media propoganda just like the media keeps telling you that ukraine is winning 😂
Good. Z.
Red Dawn isn't about them. It's about us. You don't get it.
Powers Booth really was something. Greatly missed.
There's a real chance I'll spend most of my next video gushing about the glorious man
@@inframeout Here for it.
He was a GREAT Curly Bill Brocius in "Tombstone".
@@williamkoppos7039"Well,
........................................................................................................................................................................................................bye."
Because. We. Live. Here.
Man... I haven't played freedom fighters in years... Loved that game. Also I too have been paid in a mix of cash and guns before.
Haha hell yeah, same here.
I really think this review is tainted by preconceptions towards the American right.
It can't be a self confessed "right wing extremist, anarchist, Maoist (!?)" could make an anti war movie that humanizes its antagonists and portrays the protagonists as morally ambiguous. John liked guns and said "right wing" so he must have intended to make an entirely differently movie than the one he made, even if he himself said it was anti-war! A gun loving right-winger would only be capable of producing propaganda and be completely incapable of insights like "war is bad" or "one-dimensional characters are boring" .
if you disregard the problematic message, the original Red Dawn is Oscar worthy compared to the 2012 version....
where the australian interpretation
"Tomorrow, When The War Began" is actually quite good...
I really need to check TWTWB out
Dude Tomorrow When The War Began is so underrated. Australia coming under invasion makes way more sense than the US.
7:35 okay, so if I was invading the United States, where you have generals from other countries in the past being hesitant to do that “because there is a rifle behind every blade of grass” my soldiers rules of engagement would be “everyone is presumed hostile”
Love your videos.
You have great insights - hope you hang in there and your numbers improve!
I was eleven when I saw Red Dawn in the theater in Florida while visiting family during spring break in 1984. I could not wait to get back to school in Indiana and tell all my friends about it. The film would not come out there for weeks and I felt like I had some amazing secret experience for a while. The propaganda of it hit me perfectly. It's also hard to remember now that during my entire childhood I expected a US-USSR direct conflict with ICMB's passing each other in orbit. I did not think it might happen. I expected it to happen. The Cold War was like that. I passed my schools fallout shelter every time I went out to recess. Red Dawn was a film that showed kids fighting back. It was just what I wanted.
I also want to mention that the film starts with a world narrative that gets you to an invasion. That's where the film needed to go, and they did the mental gymnastics to make it happen. The communists in Cambodia, Vietnam and China all also targeted schools and teachers for destruction, so that part of the film doesn't seem so far out for me.
Finally, I remember when MGM buckled under to China about the remake in the hopes of getting some of that sweet, sweet market. It was shameful. What they should have done was tell China to stick it and bill themselves as the only studio with the guts to do that. I would have gone out of my way to support them with my butt in the theater seat every time any MGM film came out after that.
No to forget mentioning that China's film industry makes at least a few anti-American war pictures every year. My feelings are not hurt. Are yours? The Chinese government is a bunch of whining crybabies.
Very well said
I know I was late to your party, but it brought out the Hemingway in me Didn't intend to rant when I started typing.@@inframeout
i gotta say that this is probably one of the "smallest" YT channel in my subs, but it produces some of the highest quality content.
We've certainly struggled to gain a wider audience for whatever reason - but I'm more than humbled to have the few of you around who truly care. It means the world
Completely forgot they remade Red Dawn. WTF were they thinking?
“That dude from the Turner and Hooch remake” bro that’s fucking Josh literally every American knows him.
Alexander Haig was not Secretary of State when this movie open in 1984. He was only sos from 1981 to 1982.
I just watched this for the jab at the Critical Drinker and his hatred of anybody entertaining the ideas that:
- People who aren't straight exist in the military, and are good at their jobs while celebrating that part of themselves.
- Women can be better at men (including cis, straight, white men) at things. Including physical competition.
- Being left of hunting the homeless does not, a communist of one, make.
Just because a friend told me of it. And what I got was a very compelling examination of an old childhood favorite movie (required some deconstruction, that), AND the jab. Worth.
A man who claims he's a centrist whilst cuddling up to Ben Shapiro, hosting a podcast with someone who attended the Capitol Riots, and pouring outright antipathy over anything he deems "woke" (aka - any movie that casts a person of colour, LGBTQIA+ individual or woman in a role that he would have rather seen go to literally any white dude)
The best thing about the remake is that it has better quotes for using against it than the original.
Stand-your-ground rhetoric is infinitely preferrable to the alternative, no ?
"Patrick Swayze is magnetic" - that pretty much sums up his entire career, lol!
Swayze deserved a much better career than a few hits and some cult favourites. One of the most endearing, charismatic and believable men of that era in Hollywood
Never was an actor so good in so many bad movies.
17:52 this only reaffirms my belief that red dawn is meant to be a commentary on Vietnam.
I had a marxist girlfiend of mine watch "Red Dawn". She actually liked it, precisely for the reasons listed here. I'm very much *not* a marxist.
She wore the pants in that relationship, cool chick.
I can recommend the book Warrior Dreams by James William Gibson. He analyses how a paramilitary culture has taken root in post-Vietnam America.
I just remember being very confused as a mexican teenager because I kept mixing up this with Red State by Kevin Smith
Wait what? Is this about a right wing cult? Or about invading communists? Is it about a communist John Goodman fighting a right wing cult led by Josh Peck????
The thing is that USA produced great movie about invasion - 1983's TV miniseries V.
"V" was so so good
@@inframeout
I love it
My opinion? _Red Dawn_ is my guiltiest of guilty pleasures, no doubt earned because Milius is the masterful writer of other such movies as _Conan the Barbarian_ and _Red October._ And _Big Wednesday._ Hollyweird, right?
Ah, it´s great to -stay- be alive!
The man knew how to write flawed but well intentioned men of honour
I'm not exactly sure how much information they had back then compared to now, but if you want to make people hate or be fearful of communism/communists, just make movies about their real life atrocities. A film about the Holodomor would be very timely right now.
Moscow's untold sin and Stalin's most agregious act by far.
@Some Rando Filipino
Let's not forget the Gulags and the various purges, but Hollywood hasn't got the spine.
@@fredrickmarsiello4395 It's not that they don't have the spine, it's that they don't want to demonize their fellow comrades.
@@julius-stark what so hyper capitalist billionaires that run Hollywood are actually, *clears throat*… communists 😂
There is one. Mr Jones. Came out in 2020 but with little to no marketing due to the unflattering depiction of Communism.
Two things i took away from this video. One is i was too young to realize that red dawn was put out as the propaganda film that you say. The other thing is you're right i didn't know there was turnner and hooch remake
"There's so much time spent on the visceral hatred of the other."
You didn't watch the same movie. The Wolverines are shown ambushing and killing young men who are simply serving their country. Young men who would like to meet young girls, soldiers that stop in the middle of their invasion to enjoy the beautiful scenery forgetting the war around them and leaders who have significant relationships even when offscreen that show them as lovingand caring,, those small snippets define those characters more as humans than the uniforms or weapons they have. Many of them are slaughtered in a matter of fact way just because war is war and that is tragic in it's own right. Yes, the movie has villains, but it does not show a "visceral hatred for the other," even if that is what the main characters are supposed to be feeling that motivates their actions.
You know... In a way, Red Dawn is accidentally a more faithful adaptation of War of the Worlds.
Red dawn is a classic showing us weak men make hard times, hard times create strong men and strong men make good times.
I’m a patriot American who was a former leftist walked away from the toxic anti American far left who embraced Marxism and socialism. Go wolverines!
What is the footage of the boat blowing up with a guy in a hazmat suit ?
He was madder than a bag of hammers, but goddamn I wish Milius had made his Conan trilogy. As it stands, we got one great Conan movie. And sundry.
Red Dawn: a movie about what the U.S. has been doing to other countries for over half a century.
It keeps me warm.
Bro, really took a philosophical deep dive into word propaganda movie from the Cold War😂😂
You’re the Commie my Mommy warned me about.
My father took me to see this film when it came out. And from time to time I've gone back and watched it. It's brilliant. And I'm not some right winged libertarian type. Although I supposed you'd argue that I've misinterpreted this film all along.
I always took it for a condemnation of war, imperialism and a look into how violence destroys people (especially in Rob's character). There is even a scene where our heroes can not satisfactory answer which side is in the right or wrong, or why this war is happening.
Yes, it is an unrealistic, cheesy 1980's action flick. But something that made Milus so brilliant was how he able to convey deep meaning in films, despite the veneer of being some stupid action film. Conan the Barbarian is also one of my favorite films, and full of depth, even those most people just see Arnold with a sword.
Interesting video, and got me thinking about how i view the movie.
But uh, is that firefighter ok?
The one on the boat when you talked about the "set a thing on fire to prove it isnt" segment, he sure didnt look ok after that fireball.
Watched that boat bit a couple more times and slowed down, that man is dead. Like super dead.
Fuck that's a bad way to go.
I can assure you, the man from that section of the video is fine and well (he was shaken up and bruised, but otherwise okay)
Honestly would love to hear your thoughts on more John Milius movies, he's quite a character.
Youre writing is equisite, the descriptors, analaogies, and vocabulary is always a joy to experience.
Agreed! :)
Biggest problem is that this film is structured like a multi season tv series
The biggest problem was that it wasent a multi episode tv series
@@gbonkers666 seriously they skip over so much time in the moviethat coulda been expanded on in a episode based series
It does have some significance as the first film released with the newly minted PG-13 rating from the MPAA
This movie was American as fuck, made me feel patriotic, not sure how it "failed" as propaganda.
Irony to put Red Alertr3 with Red Dawn
Nice touch
6:50 The thing that people talking about the Zimmermann Telegram always forget is that this was sent when USA was ALREADY invading México.
Paradoxally I (Eastern Block) did like the movie as a kid. The Americans simply do not have a decade long culture of crappy WWII movies, that's why the movie got a bad reception, I think.
15:33 What they’re saying here is true but I’m guessing their trying to make a “Okay the villains have a point” trope
OH HEY!!! I remember when they were marketing that Turner and Hooch remake! I didn't see it though.
So many ppl discount this film, and they get it wrong. They get the artistic value of propaganda wrong. There is so much I disagree with your commentary. Especially after 20+ of warfare by all participants nations.
Most importantly, you missed the very OBVIOUS display of propaganda to support the arms supplies from the USA into Afghanistan to support a proxy war against occupying Russia. Afghan/Soviet War 1979-1989, Red Dawn was 1984….Operation Cyclone was a CIA sponsored effort to supply mujahideen fighters.
The ‘comedic’ thuggery of the Russians isn’t that far off….look at Ukraine.
You entirely missed the point and the foresight this one film had over all other anti-soviet films of that era
Have they?
Contrary to initial headline grabbers, after a full year of operations in Ukraine, the civilian death toll was only confirmed at 5000. This is barely half of what the US inflicted in just the very first month of the Iraq war - 8000.
The supposed human shield incidents north of Kyiv were complete nonsense misconstrued by the press as by the fact, no civilians died in those battles because they had been moved out of their homes away from what became fighting positions.
The claims of mass rape were basically entirely fabricated so badly the minister who claimed them lost her job.
Their supposed to claims of massacres by the Russian army fell out of favor. Once people began noticing the bodies were too fresh for supposed weeks and months of occupation, and nothing about them ever came out until Ukrainian forces had been conducting what they called clearing operations for at least a week right before, conveniently, finding suspiciously fresh, supposed Russian massacre victims.
The people living in the Russian control regions, certainly don’t act as if they are being victimized with large majority of them voting, indeed, to join the Russian federation, and attempts at forming guerilla movements and insurgencies, falling flat.
It’s also under scores they deliver a pattern of Ukraine, abusing, protected structures, and using human shields. Ukrainian government said they deliberately lied to the own people on purpose, so they would keep them in the way of Russian gunfire back at the start of the war. And when confronted with an amnesty international report about using their own people as human shields, Ukraine responded with a shrug, admitting no wrongdoing no remorse for their actions.
And every single time Ukraine has insisted something was definitely absolutely a Russian war crime, so no need to investigate it, a more critical eye revealed the Russians were uninvolved.
Furthermore, more Ukrainians have fled into Russia, both in the preceding years, and since the ignition of active phase hostilities, than to all the rest of the world combined.
I still quote "I Ain't never heard of it!" way to often
Successful propaganda is never recognized.
Next winter I’m gonna wear outfits from this movie
Its wild how mad you made the trailer dwellers.
"the studio did the only thing it could - MGM buckled immediately, gave into 100 percent of (west-taiwan's communist demands), and re-shot, digitally altered, and re-re-edited the film to (placate and accommodate the totalitarian and war-mongering invaders) and retroactively recast the villain nationality to be - North Korea." - (and ironically proving the remake-film's originally intended idea, to be backhandedly correct ?)
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far be it from me to tell someone how they should make their movie, or how a section of movie-goers and audience should respond to it, but i am gonna call out the double-standard - i sure as hell don't see the chinese studio's (or any other foreign studio-cluster, such as bollywood) bending over backwards to specifically make and/or re-tailor their films to be more receptive to american or european audiences, and yet, american studio's do exactly and specifically this, in order to get the green (or rather, RED ?) check-mark of approval, before even beginning to start to consider any sort of home-nation release of the film. This unmasks the real and true power that red china has, over american institutions and processes (not just media, but also economics, real-estate property, and likely even other domains of 'their benefit at our expense').
The CCP pumps out anti american war movies set during the korean war. Funny thing is they backfire in their intent to make America look super evil and end up making them look badass.
William Smith's "Colonel Strelnikov" was a small but interesting character.
when you have Charlie Sheen of all people rightfully laughing at how ridiculous you sound, it's maybe a sign you've gone a bit too far in a few places
Remember dressing as Cassock to Red Dawn singing Boney M Rasputin.