DELTARUNE / Who is Kris? / Timeline Analysis
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Jaru analyzes the UNDERTALE timeline to try and deduce information about the DELTARUNE reality, including the true identity of Kris Dreemur.
00:00 Intro
01:04 UNDERTALE Timeline Analysis
11:38 Initial DELTARUNE Timeline Analysis
12:35 Who is Kris?
13:12 Kris is one of the Souls
25:07 Kris is Chara
38:25 Kris is Frisk
1:04:51 Evidence & Problems
1:07:08 When is DELTARUNE?
1:11:23 DELTARUNE Timeline Implications
1:15:21 Disclaimer: Gods Exist
1:18:33 Conclusion and Thanks! - Ігри
To be honest, Kris is probably just wearing Asriel's old clothes.
The wardrobe could also be representing their desire to wear other clothing.
Oooo! I hadn't thought of that! Kris definitely gives off the aura of someone who would be given hand-me-down clothes. And since Ralsei's room was supposed to give them everything they wanted, it would make a lot of sense if the wardrobe actually facilitated their desire to wear clothes that didn't belong to Asriel! Fantastic theory! Thank you for the comment! :D
yes, Kris is definitely wearing Asriel's old clothes. Not only that, but the ones who buy a child's and a teen's clothes are their parents, so ofc they don't reflect 100% of everything about their real wants and needs. We can see that Kris's dark world reflects their personality a lot better, and their dark world wardrobe remarks their desire to break free from their parent's control over their aesthetic identity. If we pay attention to Susie, we see she gets the rad, spiky clothes she likes irl when they hop into the dark world, so i don't see why Kris's image wouldn't be modeled after their tastes too... And Kris' everything is......blue and magenta. Like Frisk's original clothes.
And their desire to wear other clothing could thematically represent their desire to get out of Asriel's shadow
I mean, its the design Toriel and asgore gave to their clothing
That shirt is nearly identical to goat-bro's from the end of Undertale. Interesting.
I really like the "Frisk and Kris naturally have red eyes" theory because it might play into the saying of eyes being windows to the soul
does that mean chara har Brown soul
@@SnurrbulleChara is technically dead so they probably don’t have one when we meet them
@@notmusictheory74 you have a point
But Kris had red eyes after they ripped out their soul
@@the_demon149The thing about Kris ripping out their soul is that while most wouldn't realize, you could still move around that "soul" in the scene. So instead of removing their soul, they might've just removed the connection we(the players) have to their soul
If you look a Kris’s save file in the Dark World, the playtime is 00:00. Kris may have determination, but they probably don’t know how to use it, having their first and only save point being at the moment of their birth, probably set subconsciously.
Even at the first save point in Chapter 1 the narration reads "by second nature you reach out..." before showing the save screen/ui impying that saving is not something Kris understands completely but rather something they do instinctively.(at least at the start of the game)
Ive seen a file with a blank save for some reason
@@reddyxd3931 it’s only Kris the very first time you save period. It’s one of the few things that persists through deleting/creating a new save in-game, have to manually edit stuff in the game’s directory to see it again.
No he doesn't that's why the ...fills you with determination when saving is missing
Guess it makes sense seeing that there's no save file in the town
You mentioning the human SOULs probably being senior citizens in this timeline would make me love to actually see and talk with them ingame, even if it's only a line of dialogue or two. It'd be so surreal feeling.
That would be awesome! Imagine they come to town for the festival or something? That would be dope! xD
@@JaruJaruJ Frankly I completely forgot about the festival! Makes me wonder what kinds of other-town monsters will show up since most of the ones already existing in Undertale are in Hometown, if any outsiders even show up at all.
I wonder if humans feel comfortable with monsters in this timeline since you theorized their fear derived from the monsters' magic, but since that doesn't exist in the LW anymore they'd have no reason to fear them and avoid the festival (although, it may be a festival dedicated to something monster-related so the humans won't show up, but frankly we have no idea what it's about. It may just be a normal carnival and, who knows, we could see the original human souls with their grandkids eating together or playing cornhole with monsters!)
I would actually love to see the six humans in Deltarune, but Asgore already has flowers in their soul colours... but you never know. Would love to see Toby give a bit of fanservice to the small but dedicated fanbase around the other humans.
I would definitely like to say hi to clover in deltarune ngl.
Would be kinda funny seeing them all together in an old folks home annoying each other in a very love/hate kind of dynamic, like Orange wanting to fight everything and Cyan getting annoyed at them for it.
There's something I'd like to point out with Kris’s eyes/face. In DR Chapter 1 we can see that Susie, Ralsei, and Kris have something which covers their face.
Susie’s hair covers her eyes, Kris’s hair cover’s their eyes, and Ralsei’s hat casts a shadow over his entire face. At the end of Chapter 1 / beginning of Chapter 2, Susie and Ralsei both uncover their faces but Kris doesn't.
I think this could be symbolic of Susie and Ralsei breaking through the struggles that were holding them back. Susie was overly violent and Ralsei was very shy but of course, they broke free from these struggles at the end of the chapter.
However, Kris’s face is still covered up which could mean that they are still struggling. The only time we get to see parts of their face is when they remove the soul from themselves.
So of course we can conclude that Kris’s lack of freedom is the the thing that is holding them back.
Very good point! I 100% agree with you on that one. It makes perfect sense and lines up with their characterization quite perfectly.
Great Point, but here is another take, Kris has a complex over his eyes, Kris eyes are naturally a deep red, and that caused many to call him creepy and scary, as a kid he didnt really let it get to him, but it builds up, and now as a teenager, its a complex
i believe this is why kris was apparently "screaming" when they ask if you are ok after the spamton fight and you pick no
@@Hc2p3n4t4rp to be fair what monsters consider scary or not sould be different from humans, also it could just be while on the dark world since we only see (insert whatever pronoun you want) eye's flash while on the dark world.
@@Hc2p3n4t4rp their*
it makes me amazed how much information we can infer from about 20 hours of gameplay between undertale and deltarune.
Toby Fox is a master of his craft!
People talk about details in Red Dead, but nothing comes close to Toby's games!
1) true pacifist
2) frisk fucks with someone
3) kris
Just a theory btw
Toby fox would probably identify the tiniest hole in the theory and he'll surprise us w/ something like "the fountain was actually an oil hole thing"
"frisk has red eyes but prefers to keep them closed" this makes me happy beyond words, since it fits with frisk being bullied by humanity, possibly via religion inferring that red eyes means demon, its probably the reason frisk is a person of kindness, showing people who never believed in them just how nice they can really be, these theories bringing in closure for a game i loved and still love to this day, the facts proving the true ending is, and will always be the best timeline for everyone including frisk is so heartwarming, and makes me happy to see just how everything changes when seeing new things, i should also say this but i feel like chara's text is what you read all game, the meta text stuff like "froggit is running away" is chara narrating proof is in the undyne fight, scrolling through the meta text in either undying or undyne shows some emotion for undyne which is assumed to be chara changing from being as innocent as frisk, to hateful because of the high "love" and then becoming an unstoppable monster, its a strange idea to think about but when thought, since chara is supposedly buried in the bed of flowers at the beginning of the game, it would make sense a ghost of chara is present within frisk from that point forward, due to the similarity of their souls bringing the two together without realizing it
I'm glad you enjoy my theory! I also like the idae that True Pacifist is the real happy ending for Frisk, as that just feels right, especially with how Asriel specifically talks to Frisk, and not the player, during that final scene at the flowers. As for the "Chara is the Narrator" theory, I personally am not super onboard with it, but I understand why it's popular, and it would certainly be cool if true!
Either way, thank you for the kind words and the comment. x)
Frisk keeping their eyes closed because of stigma is actually already my headcanon, I love that others are thinking the same thing
Speaking of red eyes. The only other character that comes to mind is Toriel, having herself dark red eyes.
Least nonsensical and reaching deltarune theory
Ok, the part with the eye color was awesome, the realisation when you said that Chara was never officially depicted with red eyes hit me like a freaking speeding truck, from the moment when I saw who we play as in Deltarune, I always thought we were playing as Chara, but now I'm 100% on board with Kris being Frisk, amazing video, man, I may just binge your entire channel if this keeps up :D
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed! :D
@@JaruJaruJ the only thing I'm stuck wondering is why when frisk is possessed and finaly opens their eyes, why they suddenly also have cheek details but more closer to frisks skin tone
1:00:33 if you look closely the sprite actually has cheeks, so does that disprove the theory?
No, she does have red eyes. In the soulless pacifist run, if you stay with Toriel, Chara appears in the bed and you can see her red eyes
@@mess_withya It's Chara in Frisk's body tho. Unless you argue that Chara just suddenly switched places with Frisk. Which is still not correct because Chara's skin is white while Frisk's skin is yellow, and in the scene you're referencing their skin is yellow
Also, one thing that completely dissolves what you just said: in Genocide run when you actually speak with and can SEE Chara - their eyes are brown , like their outline, hair and pants
Also also: did you even watch the video above this comment? I watched it a year ago, yet I can still clearly hear Jaru say in my head that Chara's eyes were never depicted as red in any of their official art/sprites
Asgore killing a human being the reason why he was taken off the force fully explains just why Kris would hate looking at other humans, since a human would pretty much be the reason their family got torn apart
Damn. I had not thought of that! Jeez. That's dark. Good comment!
Oof
I prefer to think Asgore was fired from the Police Department because he accidentally ran over (and killed) Noelle's sister.
It makes complete sense, since not only is Noelle afraid of cars and headlights, but also Noelle's mom has been the mayor for a long time, so she would have gotten him fired immediately.
It would also explain why the Dreemurr family fell apart so suddenly and so recently. Asgore killed, albeit accidentally, his best friend's daughter. His wife's best friend's daughter.
Like, that would kill a relationship fast af.
Which would also explain why Rudolph and Noelle feel so uncomfortable toward Kris. They both want to accept him, but they're constantly reminded of December's death when he's present.
@@WoobertAIO I would have thought that if Dess was killed it would have been made much clearer. Asgore would not just be fired, he would be imprisoned and Noelle would not be friends with Kris. Dess has no grave next to the church. Her possible theme Lost Girl suggests that she is missing. I think that it is much more likely that she is missing and that Asgore was fired for being unable to find her.
@@goldenredstone04 Dess being dead was made extremely clear throughout the game, so I think you should look back at chapter 2.
I'm still watching, but I'm wondering if the reason Frisk always had their eyes closed and was being attacked was because their eyes were red, and humans reacted to that like they were a monster. It makes me wonder if the reason Kris shuts that library book so quickly is because those humans *don't* have red eyes, and it's again why they're living with monsters instead of other humans: the humans think those are still 'monster eyes'.
Also makes you wonder if that's why Kris doesn't like anime, with those pink and purple and red eyes where everyone loves that character anyway, and whether Frisk *would* have liked Kissy Mew Mew's story about her friends accepting her cat ears.
Fantastic points! I hadn't considered that Frisk may have INTENTIONALLY been hiding their eyes, and that those eyes were the source of their abuse and the reason they ran away. I quite like that!
I always thought it has naked humans in it to show how human organs work or something?? And kris wouldn't like that
@@JaruJaruJ unless they are glowing, then its yust ocular albinism
Yeah... No, that sounds pretty wrong
Kris' & Frisk's eyes _flash red_ the same colour as their SOUL, implying an actual supernatural element, rather than a birth defect
@@hasargel yeah, exactly. I honestly think people are looking too much into that.
Kris’s sweater could be explained by looking up to their older brother, asriel, and wanting to emulate him, or it could be explained by hand-me-downs from asriel. Toriel is a single mother with a teacher’s salary, it only makes sense to recycle clothing. I think the hand-me-downs makes the most sense, but that’s just me.
Great theory! Another connection between Chara and Kris I noticed: At the end of the Genocide route, Chara states that the purpose of their incarnation is power. At every save point of Kris, we're filled with power instead of being filled with determination like in Undertale.
Oh, that's a really good point...
A theory I heard is that the power Kris is filled with is actually determination. This is because remember, determination only got its name because that's what alphys named it when she was doing the determination experiments, but because the experiments never happened in the timeline of Deltarune, determination never would have got a name, so it simply "a power shinning within you"
@@1no1. thats really smart! :0
Another possible piece of evidence towards the Kris = Frisk theory is that Frisk is implied to be left-handed in Undertale, holding objects like the umbrella with their left hand.
Kris similarly holds their sword/shield during battle, removes their SOUL and holds up their knife at the end of Chapter 1 with their left hand.
Wow! Good eye! I never noticed that.
Also the mouse on their computer is on the left side as compared with papyrus' computer in that one slide.
Tbf other characters like susie and ralsei are also shown using weapons with their left hands (susie also eats chalk with her left hand because her sprite is facing right as it happens). I think it's because of their 3/4 posing on the screen making it awkward for them to be drawn holding things in their right hands. Kris also tears their heart out with their RIGHT hand and not their left in the cutscene iirc
They use their right hand to tear the soul out in the bathroom scene* and their left in the room scene. I honestly think Toby just switches to whatever looks better in the scene, or he made some continuity mistakes
Like so does Chara doesn’t they
40:08 “The other souls could not do this”
You’d think so, considering they all died, but there’s actually a line from Toriel that suggests otherwise. If you reload after telling her your pie preference and then tell her again, she predicts your answer, and then says, “When humans fall down here, strangely, I… I often feel like I already know them.” This is more than her just having deja vu about Frisk. Between that and Asgore immediately understanding Frisk in his fight if they tell him that he’s killed them before, it doesn’t sound like reloading is a uniquely Frisk thing. Plus, if the determination Flowey was injected with was enough for him to gain that power, and him absorbing the other souls in the Photoshop fight gives him six save slots, would it really make sense for the other kids with their souls full of dt to have not had that power while alive?
Yeah, I hadn't heard this interpretation until now, but it is an interesting take. I don't personally think I agree with that interpterion, as it would imply that every single human has access to Saving and Loading, or that a bunch of Determination wielding children just HAPPENED to all fall into the underground, which I also don't think is probable. Toriel only gives that line if you reload and give her DeJa'Vu, while Asgore was privy to the research being performed by Gaster and Alphys, and thus he would likely be aware of the powers and capabilities that Determination can provide. I don't think it shows that the other humans can Save and Load. Or at least, that's how I interpret those lines.
As for Flowey, it's implied that they extracted Determination from multiple human souls to inject into him, and all it did was give him access to one save file. Furthermore, it seems like absorbing human souls gives you exponential amounts of power. An adult human can easily kill a human child, and a human child can easily kill a monster, but a monster with a single human child's soul can obliterate multiple adult humans easily. That is not linear. That shows that combining a monster with a human soul MULTIPLIES their power together. And by the time you acquire all 7 human souls, you literally become a God with infinite power. So I don't think Flowey having multiple save slots proves anything about the souls, as the amount of power they grant to a monster is FAR greater than the amount of power that they wielded in life. Omega Flowey was literally one step below godhood, so him having multiple save slots was pretty logical and didn't really reflect on the human souls, in my opinion.
Thank you for the comment!
@@JaruJaruJ Like Flowey suggest, it is all about who had the most determination, he stop being able to save and load the moment the player appear, the player not Frisk or Chara, who had the most determination will be able to do that, with less determination, we had thing like Undying who can only shadow die twice.
The reason for why the other humans can't get pass Asgore although not explained, was also implied by Flowey, he described in the genocide route that he can totally let the world continue without him, but as long as he is determined, he can come back whenever he wanted, so it is possible that the other human rage quit after dying so many time, gone hollow or something, and when they decided to come back, they can't do that anymore, due to the fact that there is already a more determined being taking control of the save file
I guess that's possible. I'm not sure if I fully agree with it, but it's definitely an interesting interpretation. It would certainly make the dead human characters a lot more interesting! xD
All human souls have at least some DETERMINATION regardless of trait. It just seems every single SOUL has it's own file which Omega Flowey uses to his advantage, and it's dependant on who has the most DETERMINATION within the range of the barrier's interior which dictates who can use the files under their control.
Something else, just because someone has the ability to save and load, doesn't make them completely immortal. It's implied by Flowey and the Deltarune game over screen that if you give up and quit the game, Frisk/Kris stays dead and the world continues on without you.
The start of deltarune throws away our vessel because “this is not your story.” Have we considered that this is Kris’ story, not Frisk or Chara’s story?
Yeah, it's very funny how this 1 hour 21 minutes long video analyzes all the possible people Kris represents, and somehow forgets the most obvious answer: Kris is Kris
@@KyrieFortune
I think with all the similarities they may be connected in some way, or at least have represent each other in a way, but I highly doubt that they are the same person
THIS!!!!!!
Doesn't sound mutually exclusive with Kris being an alternate version of Chara or Frisk.
Did you even watch the video my guy
Decided to look through the script of Undertale. Frisk does smile several times, but only when picking pacifist options in battle. Smiling for Shyren, smiling at Napstablook, smiling for one of the Lost Souls in the true ending... and that's it. Interesting.
With Kris doing maybe some dubious actions that don't match with Frisk I feel can be easily explained that teenagers often do more "morally gray" things.
Very true! I am definitely inclined to think that is what's going on. At the very least, I'm more inclined to think Frisk got morally grey as a teen, as opposed to Kris just secretly being Chara. xD
Also remember Frisk can flirt with people, and is prone to joking and just generally being a sanguine person. Kris is very mischievous and a bit goofy in Deltarune, which perfectly aligns with the personality of Frisk in Undertale.
I can understand that idea but I don't think that's the case. It seems like they've just always been that even before they were a teenager. I think they just like pulling pranks and being mischievous. I don't think it's a clue that they're Chara or anything I think that's just how they are and have been.
@@akirathewildcard9625 Frisk was pretty crafty and mischievous in the original game, you basically manipulate the characters into being better people, not to mention all of the flirting and joking Frisk does on a pacifist run.
Frisk is capable of being very morally gray (or even a jerk) & still get the ending that aligns with them enough be 'their' ending. I think one video that shows this is called something like "being a jerk in Undertale pacifist". You can have them eat the snowman piece right in front of the poor guy (& he has bitter words about it, both then & after beating Asriel), can heckle & insult monsters (even saying really terrible things), & of course beat them up until they're almost dead in order to spare them.
It's likely why when Sans gives favorable judgment, he holds back on calling you/Frisk a good & kind person, & instead hints that there's a chance they/you may have been far from a saint. 😐 Toby was leaving room for such rude behavior.
I like the idea that the Dreemurs will adopt pretty much *any* lost human child xD
Yeah, they're pretty awesome. xD
Yeah, they are always so nice and homely. I hate how Asgore and Toriel are still separated though. I mean, what happened this time? There's been no war declared or anything right? He didn't go off and kill some children this time, why are they separated? :'D
@@masterblaster2678 I'm thinking that maybe he DID kill a kid once again, but this time he did it while he was Chief of Police. Hence why he got fired and Toriel divorced him. However, I think he probably killed the kid to protect the town, hence why the mayor (or someone like the mayor) is letting Asgore stay in that flower shop despite failing to pay rent. At least, that's my theory.
Either way, yeah, it's really sad. xD
@@masterblaster2678 Something probably related to Noel's lost sister. Or could be anything really. Who knows.
@@masterblaster2678 As homely as they were, they had some problematic differences. For example, Toriel is a selfish and irresponsible person, while Asgore is one of the most selfless people in Undertale and Deltarune. Considering this, Toriel is way more likely to be the reason for their divorce then any death.
I think that one thing that's been bothering me overall with Kris' name is that, regardless of anagrams and comparisons, a Kris is a type of knife. It's mainly used in Indonesia in the martial art Pencak Silat, and is known ti be doused in neurotoxin. I don't know if Kris the person has parallels to the kris dagger, but I feel like it's notable.
I thought I was one of the only ones who caught that, nice!
Yeah, it can't be a coincidence.
From what I've seen, a kris (knife) has a wavy blade. Before your comment, I hadn't connected kris (the knife) to Kris (the character); now that I have, I keep thinking about how similar the blade's shape is to Kris jiggling a werewire. Thanks for the excuse to look up Kris' jiggling animation again!
oh that would be so cool if kris was a reference to keris
I hope so! The kris blade seems to posses magical properties according to legend. Would be really cool if it has something to do with how the knight uses the blade to open dark worlds...
i do wanna point out that Chara's evil plans, are only towards humans
as to the monsters, specifically there family, Chara is really nice
making a sweater for Asgore, having fun with Asriel
and the plan for braking the barrier, wasn't to kill the moster, it was to give there monster family a life on the surface
that is also why they poisoned themself (and buttercup poisoning is not pretty), rather than killing a family member for the soul
also about Gaster, i doubt he even is in deltarune, at least as a person, remember he is shattered across time & space, and deltarune is an alternate timeline, so Gaster is also shattered from that timeline
There's proof that Chara also has evil plans for monster kind as well and dislike the dreemurrs, maybe not when they were alive but now? No. Of course not, they're not even Chara at all now, just a soulless version of themself like Flowey that can only feel bad emotions and not the good ones. I'll continue this on another day, just reply to me or something if you wanna hear it, right now it's like 12:55 AM in the morning
Just a friendly remember that Chara uses their knife also as a tool for gardening.
True, true.
Yes!
They do..? Is this canon?
@@mr.incognitoyt2235 It is!
@@rayyourlocalfroggychair Yay!!
Another piece of evidence for frisk being a good, mercy inclined human, is when you interact with the third frog in the four frogs room, they say “I hear you are quite merciful for a human”. Since this froggit is not a boss monster, they most certainly were not alive in the war, the only monsters they could have possibly seen are the fallen humans. Giving him something to compare to. Keep in mind this froggit says as long as you arent playing genocide, even if you have never spared a monster.
Really? That's fascinating! Good catch!
This makes me wonder how violent those humans were.
@@davisdf3064 what about kindness soul
@@rayaanishfaqgaming
"i am sparing them from suffering in the underground"
Kindness Soul probably, i dunno
@@davisdf3064 Oo that makes sense
small thing: Frisk was like a blank slate for the player to mentally become while playing the game but when the game is complete Flowey wants you to leave their life alone because now that the blank slate has been filled you have no place to interrupt their path.
with Kris they're entire thing is NOT being a blank slate and if Kris is just older Frisk then that could mean they're a Frisk who had their slate filled when they were frisks age.
That's actually a really interesting interpretation of Frisk's journey.
@@Ninjacat25I agree it could even work the other way round with the genocide route we’re after you die it ends with darkness now how does deltarune begin starting in the darkness which could mean two different frisks are in one body but the player is controlling the soul so the Genocide frisk can’t do anything and can’t control themselves
@@elliotsturtplus340 Toby stated that any ending for Undertale is valid and that the world of that game is as you last left it.
A small thing that I found interesting in line with your thoughts at 55:25 about Kris’s Dark World wardrobe, if we take the message of being able to wear whatever Kris wants, then Kris chose to wear their regular knightly outfit. And that outfit is closer to Frisk’s color scheme, which could point to their inner self choosing to be more like Frisk.
Also just a thought while watching the video, if Frisk and Kris do both have naturally red eyes, that could give reason to a few different things. If Frisk were bullied or exiled by the humans, it may be because of their red eyes which made them appear different or downright demonic to the humans. Kris has a reputation of being creepy or weird around town. While it could come from being the only human, being a human with red eyes probably wouldn’t help. This could be why both will have their eyes closed or narrowed almost all the time, they don’t want to be singled out or shunned for their red eyes.
Interesting theory and great video!
Thank you!
Adding to the “ralsei is aware of the player” thing, at the end of chapter 1 when ralsei takes off his hat, instead of looking at Susie or kris, he looks towards the screen, towards *you*. It could just be a “ralsei is shy” thing, but by that time, ralsei already knows about the player and how they control kris.
True, true. Both very valid interpretations!
That’s a great point actually. Not only does he look at the player, but maybe that means he even has the forethought to know that you would recognize him as looking similar to Asriel.
@@logans.7932 True! Ralsei seems to be aware of what hometown looks like, so it would make sense if he knew what asriel looks like, and how they have very similar appearances.
@@weirdmageddonn He also named Your Town after what you name the Vessel. Not “Kris Town”.
@@logans.7932 he does? Can you tell me when this happens in game? I didn’t see it when I played through the game
49:03 i’m wondering if it’s possible that “I’m protecting her from you” was directed at the player instead of Berdly secretly since I always found this line kind of weird
Oooo, very good point! The player is definitely a greater threat to Noelle than Berdly, that's for sure.
The word "You" is very heavy in this game especially so it'd check out
In my opinion, the player is only a threat to anyone if Kris lets it happen. As we see in the endings, nothing's stopping Kris from taking out our control at any point. In fact, it seems to me that Kris wants us in their body. For what, exactly, I'm not sure, but with the specific actions taken after chapter 2 (slashing the tires, opening the front door, turning on the TV, all before opening up a dark fountain)... it all seems like a very ellaborate plan, a plan of which we're a part of, for whatever reason.
@@milkyjuice646 Kris can't leave without us inside the body. The only way for the kid to live is by having someone within until Kris' original soul (possibly).
@@sonicplays8740 where was that stated exactly?
About Kris and Frisk's names being different: realistically, Kris probably chose their own name. Many enbies do like to do that, and Toriel and Asgore certainly wouldn't have stopped them. Or, what, we have a nonbinary knife-nut whose name is a type of knife, and you want to tell me this is a coincidence? I think not.
Frisk could be Kris's deadname. While it's technically gender neutral, they may have associated it with their assigned gender too much (or hated it for other reasons, who knows) and wanted rid of it because of that. This theory doesn't feel quite right to me, though, if only because that would mean we've been deadnaming Frisk for the past seven years...
Similarly, it could also be a name they liked / used for a while when they were Undertale aged, only to refine it into something more suited to them sometime before the Deltarune era. Their sense of self would have evolved a lot during their early teenage years, after all, and finding a name that feels right is a chore and a half.
Or my personal favourite: it could even just be that their different circumstances led the two counterparts to choose slightly different names in each timeline. In that case, the fact that they still have such similar names despite all the other changes just reinforces that they really do have similar tastes.
The point is, I agree with you that Kris is probably Frisk, and here's why their different names aren't evidence against that theory.
“Kris never wears a cow boy hat”
This video aged well in that regard 😂
did kris REALLY choose to wear the cowboy hat in the leaks
@@Someowne I mean to be fair, he never says they choose to wear a cowboy hat, simply that they don’t. So I’d say it counts
A few minor comments about Chara that dont disprove your theory but do seem noteworthy imo, I think it is possible that Chara had the ability to make a save file, given that when flowey had the ability to bring himself back from death that he knew that he could let the world continue on without him, and we know that Chara had killed themselves intentionally to let asriel absorb their soul, meaning that even if they could bring themselves back with a save file that they willingly let go of that power. Another thing I want to bring up is that it is heavily implied that Chara is the narrator for at least some parts of Frisk's journey, not just the red text in the genocide route, and that drawing Chara's characterization from the genocide route after the point where they watch a human kill those that were their family seems like it runs the risk of exagerating their agressive/violent tendencies. Not to say that they couldn't have been violent, as they hated humanity, and were not the best friend possible to Asriel, but it is implied that Chara climbed the Mt. Ebbot to commit suicide, or escape some form of abuse/neglect/other form of violence, and the fact that they were a seemingly young child at the time makes it seem like to me that Chara was not very healthy mentaly in some way, be it PTSD and the wide array of mental illnesses that can develop from getting PTSD as a child, or something else. They hated humanity, yes, but they also seemed to hate themselves, and given that their solution to multiple issues included their suicide when they were a young child heavily implies that they were exposed to an impactful amount of death or violemce in some form or another, as young children's problem solving process doesn't take death into account unless their caregivers majorly f'd up somehow, and not being in a situation to experience the same level of issues in their upbringing or getting a healthier family before they could attempt suicide once could allow Chara to heal and possibly grow into a character similar to Kris. They would still probably be somewhat selfish and probably more inclined towards violence then Kris is, but they also could have developed coping mechanisims that lead them to not expressing violent tendencies to the same degree, given that Kris seems at least a few years older than Chara was when they climbed Mt. Ebbot. I still think it is more likely that Kris is Frisk, but I just wanted to bring up these points because I am a huge Chara apologist
Oh for sure. Chara was definitely a morally grey character, and using their actions in the Genocide Route to prove their villainy is like using Flowey to prove that Asriel was evil. It's not fair. Chara hated the people that hurt them, and that's hardly evil. Some of their choices were evil, but some of their choices were good too. They were a complex character to be certain. Thank you for the comment regardless!
@@JaruJaruJ
I believe Chara's behaviour is justified and at the same time is not, which means when other humans violated them then they eventualy wanted to find a way to strike back
I think Chara wasn't evil at all, humans made them
We can't judge them, because they have some evil intentions
It is really absurd and pathetic
However W. D. Gaster probably wanted to find a way how to prevent the war between humans and monster
Somehow the Chara and their crorrupted determination drew his attention, which means he wanted to fix the hatred towards between humans and monsters by using their soul trait
Gaster wanted to know what caused Chara to be so hateful towards humans, because he was a doctor (obviously)
I guess he though by solving their problem might be the key to solve their problem as well, eventualy
At the end he probably found a way to extract some determination from Chara in order to use it for his experiments, which didn't end very well
@@Gabsbsbsmp
Wow, very nice theory
The theory of yours seems legit
Kinda makes sence that Frisk and Chara are somehow related to each other (it may show some symbolism like ying and yang)
Plus Gaster is also part of this, because as I mentioned that he was doing some experiments, which might include human souls and probably Chara's soul was somehow very special
Especialy in Gaster's eyes
We still don't know that much about him
@@Gabsbsbsmp I highly disagree that "Chara is some invert experiment by Gaster". I think the reason why Chara holds your LOVE is because they said "My determination was not mine but yours" in genocide which means that they were just the person watching over Frisk who couldn't do anything when Frisk started killing the monsters. They are silent in Toriel and Asgore fights, they don't auto kill Asriel unlike Asgore and Sans. So I really disagree
Yeah, drawing from the genocide route to determine Chara's personality is messy to say the least when they explicitly tell us at the end that our actions influenced their ethos.
Adding to the Frisk connections though, Kris' armor _is_ the same color as Frisk's striped shirt.
Also, it was never confirmed that Gaster fell into the core. "His own creation" is just vague enough to mean anything
You made some interesting insights here. The idea of both Frisk and Kris having red eyes sounds quite reasonable. After all, they both have red Souls (Or at least are being possessed by red Souls), and as the saying goes, "The eyes are the window to the soul."
You could still be right that the War between Humans and Monsters took place in the Middle Ages. Chara fell in 201X, but there could have been another 1000 years before Frisk fell, so the Monsters would have been imprisoned for "Millenia" that way too.
Both Asriels could still have been born in the same relative time. Boss Monsters age slowly, so DELTARUNE's version may be a teenager in mind and body while still technically being over 100 years old.
The eyes being windows to the soul is actually a fantastic point! I totally forgot that might actually be true in this series. Sans had his yellow/light blue eye that people thought might showcase how he represents justice and patience. Thanks for mentioning that!
Very true, very true. There's definitely a cap to how far in the future it can go, as I imagine there's some point where things like Papyrus' car and the street lamps and such would stop looking like our world and start looking like Star Wars, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly where that cap is.
I did think about that. I kinda had it in the back of my mind that Asgore didn't go to college in UNDERTALE until one was built in Hotland, so for all we know monsters don't go to college until they're a hundred years old. That's why I don't think Asriel being young is too big of a problem when it comes to the "Kris is Frisk" theory.
Thanks for the kind words and the comment! :D
@@JaruJaruJ Okay, I'm glad you appreciated it too. I've seen people mentioning that point of Sans' glowing left eye before. It helps the theory when another character may have a significant eye colour that represents their powers.
You are probably right, the level of tech we see on the surface looks more like it would fit something relatively more contemporary, rather than being 1000 years in the future.
I don't know if we have any idea about how long Monsters live in general, so it's hard to guess at what ages they go through different stages of life.
I think the mysteries of UNDERTALE and DELTARUNE are very difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to figure out on their own at the moment, so everyone in the community needs to come together for us to even come close to solving this puzzle.
I couldn't agree more!
Imagine Gaster just appearing as a normal monster in a future chapter and just the reason we didn't see him in the previous chapters is because he was busy being a world famous scientist and everyone freaks out at W.D. Gaster just being there and being a normal character
*that seems like a very Toby thing to di
I think Kris might be meant to be a new character and somewhat of a cross between Frisk and Chara, therefore having several undeniable similarities with both of them? Alternatively, going more to the theorizing side, what if Kris is the fusion of the two from the ending where, after the two humans share a body, Chara destroys the world with input from the player and "moves on to the next one?" What if they "moved on" to the Deltarune universe, and are still in conflict over Frisk's actions? (which would mean that Kris has Frisk's body with both humans' souls inside and that's what the scenes indicating possession are meant to show)
Oh wow, that's a really good point! Then those scenes where Kris removes a soul is just Chara overcoming and removing Frisk's soul... leaving Chara's soul to do as they please. Wielding a knife, slashing tires, creating fountains after hearing of their destructive powers, scaring the dog gang... It would make a lot of sense. It would also explain Noelle's comment that Kris' (Chara's) voice was "so terrifying" and Toriel's mention of the frequency of Kris' dazes (implying that they occurred also before the player was playing the game). Chara is able to take control when Kris is relaxed and lets their guard down - while asleep, with the calming sound of running water... In some ways I'm hoping this is the canonical interpretation, it just makes so much sense. If only Toby spelled Kris as the more usual spelling Chris, thus simultaneously acting almost like a portmanteau of Chara and Frisk. Would make the theory near indisputable...
@@LunizIsGlacey Exactly. I'm not surprised Toby went with something other than Chris though, since the other two already have unusual names.
@@cokesloth Very true yea. Still, thank you for sharing (and for the really quick reply on such an old comment)! This has now become how I view the character haha
To be fair - Chara also used the knife for gardening for their father! In the pacifist/neutral route, its called a dagger & being good for cutting vines.
True, true.
Not particularly important to this theory, but there is one additional thing to note about Kris' red eye flash; it is the same animation used in Asgore's boss fight with the Blue and Orange attack, though in that fight it is of course blue and orange instead of red.
Perhaps it's trick Kris learned from their family.
And it is the same animation used when you do a pacifist ending after a genocide in Undertale and you choose to stay with Toriel. Because you gave your soul to Chara, there is a cutscene where after Toriel give you a slice of pie, Chara take control of Frisk, and have glowing red eyes with this animation playing.
Well the thing is, I don’t know if Kris can actually do magic. They wanted to be like their family (do magic, have horns, ect.) but it’s clear that they can’t by their search history and what Toriel had told us about their childhood.
@@alexalexinii Yeah, not saying that's a magic attack, just saying specifically the eye flash.
@@alexalexinii actually magic is never mentioned in Deltarune, besides in the dark world, and instead of using fire magic, Toriel actually uses the oven to bake pies.
@@alexalexinii Kris certainly cannot do magic. The game actually explicitly makes sure that you do not conflate ACTing with magic. In chapter 1 it said "It isn't magic." and in chapter 2, it says "Don't confuse it with magic." I think the game is making it very clear kris cannot do magic, at least not yet.
While I like to think that Kris is their own person, this video is incredibly well put together and the evidence is really good! Can't wait to see whether you're right! Makes things even more exciting, which I didn't think was possible
Thank you very much for the kind words! I'm glad I was able to make you more excited for DELTARUNE! :D
To be fair, Frisk is just a kid and them reusing a bandage could just be the result of them falling, hitting their knees or elbows, getting scratched by bushes and such, etc. Them climbing Mount Ebott could also be the result of this adventurous nature of Frisk.
57:42 In the shot where Frisk is in bed with red eyes, their hair and cheeks and skin change to the Chara sprite. They literally visibly change into Chara.
I don't see why the rest of the body would change to Chara but we're assuming the eyes didn't. I think it's just Chara having a spooky evil effect.
Well, if you look closely and compare their sprites, the skin color and hair color stay the same. The hairstyle changes, and we see some cheeks appear, but that's it. Furthermore, the cheeks aren't the right color. If they were Chara's cheeks they'd be a dark shade of pink. In this shot they're a greyish color that is closer to Frisk's skin tone than it is to Chara's pink cheeks, suggesting that these cheeks are being created as a result of Chara smiling, sorta like a dimple or a blush.
But that's just my interpretation. Could be wrong, of course. x)
Why not? It could change
Unless they are the opposite gender
There's a blue tinge to the entire image since it's at night. When you add a colour near the opposite side of the colour wheel to another colour it will make the colour more grey. It does seem like their skin tone is very yellow compared to Chara's, which I'm not sure would change from adding the blue, but could be to signify it's still Frisk's body, but the rosy cheeks are definitely there. I don't think this debunks your argument though, just one the points you used.
By far, you're the most observant theorist I've ever encountered. I'm the single biggest game lore enthusiast of all time, so this is a real treat. Thanks and please keep making this content!!
Thank you very much for the kind words and support! :D
@@JaruJaruJ I absolutely cannot wait to see what you have next!!
Toby Fox using the fandoms perception of an eye color to make a red herring cutscene showing a characters "true" identity is absolutely genius.
1:06 War with spears & swords
2:08 Asgore King Immortal Boss Monster
2:29 201X (not twenty one x) 3:42
4:08 Asgore kills
5:10 80 Year Gap
5:57 1st human in a long time
6:48 _Timeline understanding #1_
7:42 In a Hundred Years
9:00 Plastic detail shows time
9:48 A Human Village -> A Massive Metropolis
11:38 What does Undertale inform about Deltarune’s World?
• Monsters live on the surface
• _When are they?_
‘12:38 *Who Is Kris?*
14:03 6 Human Souls
🧡 Orange - Bravery 🧤 Bandana
💛 Yellow - Justice, 🔫
💙Blue - Integrity, Ballet 🩰 Music 🎶 🎹
💚Green - Kindness 🍳 🔥
💜Pink - Perseverance. 📓 strategy 🧐
🦋Light blue - Patience 🧸 🔪 🩹 🎀
24:40 ❤️Red Soul
🔪 “Best Friends Forever” 🔐
27:39 Loving chocolate, loving green/yellow and brown
29:29 Misdirection?
29:53 🔪 creation & destruction
No locket in Kris’ world
Chara - Beloved Evil 😈
Kris - Friendly, mischievous 😏
35:12 Grown up monster kid, dead Turtle 💀 🐢, Status Quo maintained
38:30 Kris = Frisk
• Wooden pencil • Wooden stick
• Bandage. • Bandage
• Determination Wielder
41:10 Leave Kris/Frisk alone player
41:40 Personality
• LOVE Love ❤️ violence Sparing
• Fight | Flight
Genocide | Pacifism
45:30 Doing so with a 😃
47:00 Vulnerable Naive Noelle kills, Kris won’t do it.
48:07 Kris speaks words for you, but in his own way
49:22 Non-violence Kris
Kris uncomfortable with seeing humans
50:52 Bandage 🩹 used many times, attacked by others multiple times?
52:20 2 Diametrically Opposed Forces. 2 Methods of Dealing with Problems. 53:30 Dealing with troubled experiences & hurt from them
54:37 Bland expression, skin color, hair
• Clothes are clothes
• what about eyes? 56:20
Chara’s eyes are brown 🟤
Frisk’s eyes are red 🔴
Kris’ eyes are red 🔴 59:20/1:00:40
*recontextualized evidence generates new understanding*
1:02:30 Adults, condolences, status quo identical. Similar time period, college age Asriel. Ralsei
1:04:55 Kris is not Chara
1:05:39 Kris is close to Frisk 1:07:04
1:07:14 When is Deltarune?
A few years later after Undertale?
1:09:23 Queen 👑
1:09:55 Weird moon 🌙
1:11:17 Lab tech?
1:11:38 Undertale Chara is dead? Human souls alive in Deltarune? Came to town, chief of police.
1:13:28 Gaster Shattered across time and space due to CORE, no Core, no dead Gaster, regular man.
1:15:24 could be wrong
Ralsei Manuel in the 202X
1:17:37 Natural Timeline?
Manipulated Timeline?
Woah! Couldn't have put it better myself! Thank you very much for the comment/summary/timestamp Mr. Time Stamp Guy! :D
Huh you ARE that time stamp guy
Here's the time stamp guy.
Hi……………
?
This series is the best UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE videos I’ve seen in a long time please continue it 😊
You are far too kind!
1:04:41
the BIGGEST problem with kris being chara or frisk is that their names are different while no one else is different
and also that kris has a different types relationship with their friends and the fact kris dosent really seek out people to be their friends
it could be very well kris also is not only a red herring to make us think their chara but also frisk as well
You make a fair point; however, I should point out that all the characters who have the same name are monsters, not humans, and since monsters live so long, it's possible that the butterfly effect hasn't had enough of an impact on this timeline to meaningfully alter what names the monsters prefer. Humans, on the other hand, are much more vulnerable to the butterfly effect due to their shorter lifespans.
That said, there IS one monster that I know of who is confirmed to have a different name in DELTARUNE than they did in UNDERTALE: Susie. The Clam Girl in Waterfall talks about a character named "Suzy," which is an easter egg that got added to UNDERTALE in a patch right before DELTARUNE's release. Once we get to DELTARUNE, her name ends up being "Susie" instead of "Suzy." I'm certain this wasn't a mistake, so I'm thinking this was Toby's way of giving an answer to your specific concern!
Still, anything is possible. You could totally be right, and Kris may be a brand-new character. Regardless, thank you for the comment!
@@JaruJaruJ
oh another thing which may or may not mess your timeline is that the fact toriel took out the how to take care of humans and the card on the back says toriel took that book out repeatedly "many years ago"
True! How long ago "many years ago" is, that's what's tricky. Does that mean a decade? A couple years? A century ago? Did Toriel take care of other human children in the past? It's hard to deduce much from that line at this time.
@@JaruJaruJ doesn’t goner clam girl misspell “Suzy”?
I don't think it's a misspelling. I think it was an intentional difference to showcase the differences in the timelines.
To be honest, i think the part about Chara's eyes not being red, with Frisk actually being red is kind of a reach, considering that in the "Bad pacifist ending, Frisk's ENTIRE APPEARENCE changes to be alike Chara's (Skin tone, pink cheeks, hair shape etc)
It never occurred to me that the events of Undertale could take place so many decades into our own future. Mind you, I’ve never actually played the genocide route myself… with good reason.
I've spent these 5 years since Undertale with no idea that Frisk was implied to be from the 22nd century. The depth to the attention to detail in Toby's games seems endless.
Something worth noting is that Frisk has brown eyes in the official kickstarter banner art. This doesn't seem like anything that should be considered canon though because it's likely just very early concept art with unfinished character designs.
Yeah, I'm inclined to not take that art too seriously given its dubiously canonical status.
Look at it again, Frisk has brown skin in that dumb pic as well.
So, after some thought about a lot of what I feel Toby Fox wants to say with Deltarune, I'm beginning to think that either the soul or Kris is a representation of the "You" the world builds for us as soon as we're born. The first things we are granted at birth are our consciousness (the real us) and then our body and a name, things that are merely circumstantial. Notably, the first thing that happens in deltarune is us trying to choose a name and a body with our consciousness assumably, but that chance is taken away from us as "no one gets to choose who they are in this world"
You could take that as simply, your name and body can't be chosen as your parents determine those things, BUT I believe what it means is that even afterwards, we can never truly be ourselves or at least not in the state of the world we live in. I believe this because of what seems to be going on with the chapters and their themes and characters, and I believe the chapters are meant to represent the steps that turn us into what the world determines is us.
Frankly, Chapter 1 may be the one I have the least evidence for, but the other Chapters we know of and could potentially happen fit this theory so well it prompted me to take a look back. Chapter 1's theme seems to be toys, analog games and such. Chess, cards, stuffed animals, clowns, things of the sort. These are things you could reasonably see a kid playing with, or experiencing in their early life. Clowns at birthday parties, stuffed animals to sleep with, cards to play things like go fish or even more broadly things like uno, and chess, something most professionals get into at a very young age and ends up drastically shaping their personalities. These things can really subtly change the way you think about the world and yourself. What kinds of games do you play? Are you a simpleton who plays uno, or a smarty who plays chess? Not only this but the boss of the chapter is a literal father, someone who raises you and who influences Lancer to do bad even though that clearly isn't "who he is"
Chapter 2 is about the internet, something that DEFINITELY shapes you as a person depending on how early you indulge in it, which I don't think I necessarily need to back up. On top of that we have characters like Queen, a mother(board lol) not only to Lancer, but a surrogate for Noelle. When she says she's "going home" she goes to the room QUEEN made her. I've seen theories that she represents a mother for each character in the chapter, which I can sort of believe. We also have Swatches, darkners that apparently have the power to bring a lightner's dream into reality. They're an obvious reference to art programs on computers, and if you're a creative, having something like that can change you drastically.
We know the next chapter will take place in Kris' home, but more specifically we can assume that television is the focus because of Mike. Of course, again, TV greatly shapes you as a person, even if you aren't someone who frequently watches it. It may shape your childhood, the kinds of people you're aware of existing, how you understand those people, and even down again, to how you think of the world and yourself. I think that will be the running through line of each chapter. I had a strange thought when Toby changed the doors in the computer lab. I started looking at each double door in the game a lot differently. The only others I can think of are at school, at the church, and at the bunker. Assuming this is an indicator that double doors could mean a potential darkwolrd to be opened in the future (which to be fair is a strange assumption after this chapter specifically, because Kris opens up a darkworld in their house that only has one door but like hear me out :( ) then we can assume that those three will be darkworlds as well. I don't think I need to explain how school and religion shape you as a person, but the bunker I do.
I think the bunker represents something outside of all of the conditioning the other darkworlds represent. Notably, Spamton and Jevil, two people who are implied to be "free" are both located in a basement aka somewhere underground. Just like the bunker and just like UNDERTALE. I think it'd be fair to say that in UNDERTALE, the underground represents somewhere free, or at least more free than the overworld, free enough that people like Chara and Frisk feel they can escape to. (Frisk is more implied, but I think it's a fair assumption) So I don't think the bunker needs to represent any kind of conditioning.
How this ties back to Kris and what they represent is that Kris is the idea of wanting to break free and finally be yourself, to stop being a "puppet" or a "heart on a chain". It seems most likely that Kris really only made the dark world in their home. I think what prompted them to do this was a combination or one of either the encounter with Spamton, and the speech Susie and the others give about how much better the darkworlds are than real life. Kris may realize that the darkworlds are somewhere they and their friends can be themselves and be free finally. Maybe they believe the roaring is either an exaggeration, a lie, a risk worth taking, or exactly what they've been looking for. I think this because when you look in the mirror, it says "it's what they call 'you'", in reference to a body that was never chosen by Kris, and maybe even a personality that they don't believe is really "them" or "you", if you were in their shoes.
I know the finer details of this theory are pretty half baked and could easily be debunked by the next chapter, but with all the confusion of who Kris is, all this "you" talk, all this "your choices don't matter" stuff combined with the current and potential darkworlds, I'd be surprised if this had nothing to do with identity, and the way we see ourselves and others, and I hope my thoughts can at least steer toward the right direction. I also think this is why deltarune is a world with changed UNDERTALE characters, to show that even though these people have the body and names of the people we knew, and even an inkling of the personality, they are still different people who'd be terrified or in awe of their UNDERTALE counterparts. I know everyone's asking a different question when they ask "who is Kris", but under this theory, who Kris is really doesn't matter because, in a way, no one is who they really "are". Their identities and who they're perceived as was created by the world around them.
Fantastic analysis! Most comments are dissecting the specific details of the plot, but you're one of the few to actually try and dissect the theme and core message of the story, which I appreciate! My next video, the one I'm currently working on, will involve some amount of discussion of the theme of DELTARUNE, and while it's not exactly the same as what you've brought up here, we're definitely in similar ballparks.
Thank you for the extensive comment! :D
@@JaruJaruJ Thank you for the response, funnily enough I had a personal epiphany recently and a lot of things in deltarune began to feel a lot more clear. I'm super looking forward to your video, as I'd love to see a more polished version of this thought process
@@mamasgirl987 Thank you very much for the comments and the support. x)
There was a text in Undertale that stated that a Worn Dagger used to be a tool to, not a weapon. It became a weapon in one specific scenario.
Also, there is a lot of more subtile references to Chara, in Kris's habits, while not many to Frisk. I mean, Frisk not even interested in that bar of chocolate in the frige, and afraid a size of Toriel's pie. Chara would just ate it with their bare hands.
I'm pretty sure, that's not "just a red herring".
Technically, monster fuse technology with magic , that's why they can do all of the sci fi stuffs, especially Mettaton who is a ghost posing a robot body, the technology on the surface may just be on the same level of real life in 2015.
That might be the case, but the line from Undyne seems to imply that the monsters are, at best, barely keeping up with humanity in terms of tech, and at worst they are trailing behind humanity. Could be wrong, but that's how I read her line.
I just had an idea:
"Kris" is an anagram of "Frisk" (something - eg the soul - missing from Frisk) but if Frisk is also an anagram of Kris, what is the significance of adding the letter F?
"Free." Frisk a- name that can ONLY be unlocked by going through the pacifist run - is "Free Kris." Doing a genocide run is effectively trapping a now free character (possibly an avatar created by Gaster?) into an endless cycle of being possessed by Chara and/or the player.
Very possibly! Once again, very clever interpretation of the evidence! I don't know if Kris being different from Frisk has some greater meaning in the timeline, or if it's just meant to show how the timelines have diverged, but either way, you make some fascinating arguments!
Oh I LOVE this
Ow, you hurt my brain. That is literally the smartest thing I have ever read in a comment section.
Fallen Kris
I just realised that we'll be meeting Chairiel the chair in ch.3
THANK YOU FOR THE EYE COLOR THING. I have ALWAYS died on the hill of Chara's eyes being brown (fully and clearly canon) and Frisk's being the ones that are naturally red, if either of theirs at all (I'd thought this before Deltarune and Kris' enduring red eyes proving it was at least possible, like I thought maybe your eyes turn the color of the Soul of whoever's possessing you or something).
It is the open eyes and plastered-on smile, a change in ATTITUDE that marks them as possessed/evil, not some fundamental change to their "real, normal, good" appearance - and that seems more in line with Toby Fox and his handling of morality in UTDR anyway.
The only problem I have with this is that frisk randomly gets the "rosy cheeks" chara had, maybe their dimples from smiling?
@@bamboozlevonsneeplemarnic2414 Yeah, that's basically what I was saying? Blush/dimples are much less of a "physical appearance you were born with or was unnaturally altered" than red eyes.
About Kris being uncomfortable with humanity, I think it is more likely they just feel like an outsider in their environment because they are the only human in the town. The picture of the humans probably reminds them of that fact and because of that they get uncomfortable.
That's a valid interpretation I suppose.
Small correction but Undertale does imply that the other six humans had access to some form of save ability.
If you reset a run after telling Toriel your favorite pie flavor, she'll instead call and guess your favorite flavor herself. If you tell her that she guessed correctly, she'll say this:
"Hee hee hee. I had a feeling.
When humans fall down here, strangely... I...
I often feel like I already know them.
Truthfully, when I first saw you, I felt...
like I was seeing an old friend for the first time."
And when you fight Asgore you can tell him how many times he's killed you and he'll nod sadly, seemingly unsurprised.
To me this implies that the other humans could save but they weren't able to defeat Asgore and eventually gave up. This would also explain why Flowey gains additional save slots from absorbing the souls or why he had save powers to begin with since his determination was derived from the experiments with the six souls.
My own headcanon for why the souls gave up is that Asgore is a lot tougher than the fight we experience in-game. Asgore held back more against Frisk due to 1. him being worn down from the years of killing humans, and 2. Frisk reminding him of Chara (which Asgore will outright say if you rematch him in a neutral run after beating Flowey).
That's an interesting interpretation! I hadn't heard that before. I would interpret the Toriel line as her having DeJa'Vu of you from the previous timeline, and the Asgore line as just him being aware of the powers that Determination can grant due to him hiring Gaster and Alphys. I personally would not conclude that this says anything about the other children though. But, of course, that's just my interpretation. x)
@@JaruJaruJ The "having deja vu of you" thing does not cover over the specific line, "When humans fall down here, strangely... I... I often feel like I already know them." I find it more likely to imply that the other humans made her experience deja vu like that, through Reloading, but she had no reason to bring that up with you until she felt it with you herself.
Another thing people have brought up, in that Flowey had control of the timeline from only having excess Determination extracted from the Souls. Unless he had significantly more than 1/6th of the total Determination contained within all of the Souls, which seems unlikely as A. The souls are clearly still unbroken, which is one power of Determination, and B. There are at least 5 other Determination experiments, in the clear Amalgamates and the additional "Control Case" flowers used by Alphys, with potential additional ones such as the Memoryheads, True Lab spoon figure, Everyman, Gaster's original usage for the DT Extractor blueprints, and maybe even Undyne (though that one's just a theory of mine).
It does not stand to reason that Flowey would have SO much more Determination than these other tests, so much more that he would gain a SAVE file and the human Souls all wouldn't.
Of course, you're free to keep your interpretation, I just thought I'd share my thoughts here. I'm really enjoying your Deltarune theory videos, and hope they stay engaging to make for you for a long time.
EDIT: ALSO also, nothing in the Alphys or Gaster experiments would make Asgore privy to Determination's time-bending powers. As far as Alphys knows, it's just what lets human Souls persist after death, we have no idea what Gaster knows about Determination, and Asgore is unlikely to take this hypothetical research immediately if he's met seven humans before and none of them have exhibited similar behaviour.
@@trondordoesstuff
That is true, but something to remember is that he DID have a human child of his own once, and while he’s not exactly religious, he DOES believe in the prophecy, and it’s implied he believed that Chara was the Angel of the Prophecy. Him taking this claim at face value would be somewhat in character
Frisk represents determination so I think that’s why they never gave up during the fight. They were determined to go back and try again. You might argue that perseverance could have pushed through, but they might have lost hope unlike someone with determination who wouldn’t have.
I wonder if perhaps the reason Frisk is able to survive to find an ending is because they carry determination to fight and act forever.
I’m surprised you never brought up the option of Kris you being essentially a fusion of Frisk and Chara, considering Kris has multiple traits extremely similar to both Frisk and Chara. Chara’s green and yellow striped shirt, Frisk’s relatively emotionless face, the blue and purple Dark Word cloak that matches Frisk’s sweater, a bladed weapon like Chara is often affiliated with, an affinity for flirting based like Frisk, being a Dreemurr child who actively knew Asriel like Chara, but also being a Dreemurr child who doesn’t meet Asriel during the events of the game like Frisk. I believe there’s a substantial possibility Kris might be a fusion of Chara and Frisk
Yeah, it might be strange that this counterpart is so different when all the other Deltarune counterparts are mostly similar, but if your other theory that Ralsei might be the Deltarune version of Flowey is true despite that Ben making him a wildly different counterpart, I believe my idea for Kris being a fusion of two separate characters could be true as well
Also, Kris’s shirt being green with a yellow stripe could just be a shirt handed down from Asriel (as we see in Undertale). Although then we have to make the assumption that he had bigger sizes of the shirt. However we do see many characters wearing the same clothing across multiple days, possibly wanting to keep the same look which could back this up. Either that or it was just Toby not wanting to draw new sprites (which I highly doubt). Another thing that supports that the monsters wear the same clothing is that Sans deliberately says that Papyrus wore what we see him wearing in the game to a party one time, and now that’s all he ever wears. Thank you for your time anyone who read this paragraph of a comment.
You make some fair points! I think we agree that the clothes probably don't prove much one way or another regarding Kris' identity. Thank you for the comment. x)
@@JaruJaruJ Yeah I don’t really think that the clothes mean anything in particular but still it’s a kind of a coincidence
I just noticed that Toriel's dialogue sprite has a heart-shaped necklace like the one on asriel's battle sprite. Havent finished the video, just pointing it out in case it is relevant for something.
Good catch! Holy cow! That's a fantastic catch! Hot damn! Thank you for noticing that! I have no freaking clue what that might mean for the lore, but I'm glad you pointed that out!
@@JaruJaruJ After her son died, Toriel began to wear either Asriel's old locket (and the one worn in the Asriel boss fight was created new like his body) or Toriel herself created a replica of the lockets her worn by her kids, to keep their 'hearts' close to herself.
I just would like to point out that even though I love the arguments you've presented and I think you did a great job at defending your points while dismantling others, I also think you were kinda rough on Chara? I'm not here to say they never did anything wrong, but calling them the most evil/blood thirsty character in the game seems kind of a stretch to me considering they're only inclined to help you do genocide when you start it, and nothing proves that they were the one to control Frisk when the latter moved without player input.
If anything, this is *Frisk* moving on their own towards their enemies. You could counter that with "But Frisk is a pacifist", and yes, they are, but we have to remember the effects L.O.V.E have on people. Just take a look at Noelle during the Snowgrave route. After a while of killing, she doesn't even recognize Berdly as her friend and just thinks he's another enemy, and she starts acting on her own without the player having to tell her to. That's what Frisk does too. For all we know, Frisk is the one to strike Sans a second time, to kill Asgore and Flowey.
Before the genocide run, and before Frisk even fell down, when Chara still lived woth the Dreemurr, they were implied to have truly loved them. Chara hated humanity due to their trauma, but why would they hate monsters? A proof of this is them knitting a sweater for Asgore and trying to bake a pie for him.
And even during The Plan, Chara never wanted to kill ALL of humanity, they just wanted to take 6 souls to free monsters, EVEN going as far as killing themself for that. (I am not saying trying to kill 6 people is good, but we have to understand that Chara wanted to do so in order to free monsters, the exact same thing Asgore, Undyne and even most of the Underground have tried to do.)
Yeah, a lot of people were miffed at my characterization of Chara. I specifically referred to Chara's goals as evil, and not Chara themselves, as I knew that they as a person were not pure evil or anything, but some folks still took it poorly. I do stand by my statement that Chara's goal WAS evil, as they planned to cross the barrier and murder several innocent people. Premeditated murder is definitely unethical. It was evil when Asgore did it, and it was evil when Chara tried to do it. Does that make Chara and Asgore evil people? No, of course not. They had good intentions, even if their actions were evil. But their actions WERE evil, and there's no denying that. Furthermore, Asriel explicitly states that Chara was not a good person, so it's hardly crazy for me to paint them in a negative light.
Still, to be clear, I am aware that Chara was morally grey. They had some bad things happen to them, they did some bad things, they had some good things happen to them, and they did some good things. There is nuance to their existence to be sure.
@@JaruJaruJ Of course I do believe Chara was morally gray as well, and I do understand what you meant. Though, if I were to nit-pick, Asriel didn't exactly say Chara wasn't a good person, he said they "weren't the greatest", which is fair. He didn't think Chara could to bad stuff, and now he realizes that he idealized them a bit too much. In the end Chara was a kid, they were human and made mistakes in contrary to Frisk (with the player's help of course ;0) who was able to free monsters without hurting anyone. Chara tried to do something good but was willing to do something bad for that to happen.
@@JaruJaruJ i do agree with most of the points but asriel's words were "not the greatest person" which doesnt have to mean bad.
Honestly, it is unwise to call Chara bloodthirsty by nature, when even they can do nothing against the one character that can genuinely fall to bloodthirst and feel no remorse because they can just reset everything... the player.
This blew my mind, I feel like a veteran Undertale player and I didn't even know Frisk's bandage allows them to have a higher chance of running away in battles. Thank you for keeping these games new and exciting for all types of players.
I wonder if Frisk's/Kris's unique eye color is something that caused conflict with humans. Names like "Devil child" and "cursed" comes to mind
I think that's a very good idea!
On the topic of colored souls:
I find it weird that each color represents a trait, like bravery, etc. But the red soul is just determination, something that all humans posess. Shouldn't all souls be red then? Is it that the color represents the humans strongest trait and Frisk and Kris are just the most determined?
Or maybe the red comes not from the human themself, but from the determination from the player, since we've never seen a red soul that we don't control? If so, the soul color not matching wouldn't matter and Kris could still be one of the other six souls, however unlikely.
I think it means whatever trait about them is the best.
You make a fair point! For all we know, we can ONLY possess humans with red souls. All of this is very hypothetical. I mean, most of our knowledge of souls comes from the freaking Ball Game, so to say our knowledge is limited is an understatement. I personally think Red Souls are defined by their "love," but that's totally just a theory on my part. I personally don't think Red Souls represent Determination, as Save Points are golden and the word "Determination" is colored gold in the True Lab. But that's just my perspective. Thank you for the comment!
That makes sense!
Bit of a side theory, but I feel it is worth mentioning. There does seem to be some parellels between the 7 root chakras and the 7 human souls. Not only do Chakras have a relationship between the human soul, but the color and number appears to alligin.
When viewing Chakras the Red Root Chakra represents one's self preservation, which somewhat aligns with what Determination represents in Undertale, the will to keep on living and pursing one's goals.
I will admit not all the Chakras parellel the 7 souls 1 to 1, however the parellels they do have are very very interesting.
Very interesting! I hadn't heard that theory before.
imo, hometown feels so specifically designed to be a small town in the 2010s-2020s that I find it hard to believe that it could be the 2100s.
The technology is just recent enough for it to specifically be modern-day, and the outdated technology is still about as recent enough that you can easily see it just being in use because of older houses/people who don't feel like switching out the technology to what is most recent. There's also the games that are obviously supposed to be parallels to real life 2000s-2010s games (minecrap/minecraft, super smashing fighters/super smash bros, asriel mentioning Yoshi Sacrificing so presumably Mario games also exist)
Obviously, these things would still _exist_ in the 22nd century, but I find it a lot less plausible that they would commonly be used, especially by the main characters, who are all teenagers. yeah, it's not impossible, but you don't tend to see a group of modern-day teenagers bonding over consuming media from the 1910s, yeah? and schools/libraries are already beginning to replace older computers with newer ones, and computers do degrade over time, so I find it hard to imagine that there still would be a lot of 90s computers still in common use in the 22nd century.
you can't really _disprove_ that it takes place in the 2100s, but I feel like there's enough that tells me that Toby Fox had a 2010s-2020s time period in mind while writing the game, and that things just happened slightly earlier/differently in the Deltarune timeline/universe
That's a totally valid interpterion. Like I said, I'm not 100% confidence in DELTARUNE taking place in the 2100's. I think it's possible. There are ways to explain such things as Minecrap still existing in the 2100's, same with most of the stuff in town, and it would certainly make Kris being Frisk a lot more logical, but you're right, the Hometown doesn't feel explicitly futuristic or anything.
Regardless, thank you for the comment! x)
In the deltarune game files, there's an asriel's manual book and in that book written 202X.
Btw sorry for my english
In the 22nd century they’d probably have the Minecrap 3.67 update, Super Smashing Fighters 65 and Super Mario Iliad
Kris wears Chara's colours while being outside the dark fountains, and in them, they wear the colours associated with Frisk. It's so interesting
Very curious.
Technically Kris isn't wearing the same type of color clothing whatever, Chara's sweater is a lot more greener and the middle stripe is mostly their skin color.
My theory is that Gaster was the one that originally did experiments on determination, and his findings were the reason humans and monsters went to war. When he fell into the core in Undertale, it created a separate timeline where he never existed, preventing the experiments and therefore the war. Determination was instead used as a term for the separate power to open dark fountains. I have absolutely no evidence to support this but it might be true
Interesting. I like it! I'm not sure I believe it's true, but it's just believable enough that it might be. Good idea!
57:37 This is literally Chara's sprite with their hairstyle and pink cheeks... so I don't think red eyes are their literal eye color but a visible representation of "mischief". Afterall that was suposed to be a twist.
It's not QUTIE their sprite, there are some notable differences, namely their cheeks aren't pink and are instead a greyish color, while their skin color and hair color are still the same as Frisk's.
Still, you might be right. Maybe Frisk's red eyes were meant to be metaphorical rather than literal, and Kris having red eyes is just a coincidence that doesn't prove anything. I personally think it would be rather inconsistent to give one character fake red eyes only to give a different character real red eyes, but I suppose "metaphorical red eyes" are a trope used in other fictions sometimes.
@@JaruJaruJ All their color is kinda greyish. I think it's because it's dark in the room, but I think it doesn't matter cause "shooting red eye" might be one of this styleistic things like they do in anime when intelligent person in glasses have "glare" effect or charismatic person have "shining smile". Remember that Ralsei's fur in the first chapter was black, but only because it was overshadowed by his big hat. Undertale and Deltarune are very stylised pixel games after all. I like your theory regardless!
These are the kind of theories that I love to see for games, especially undertale, thank you for making content like this for us!
It's my pleasure! Thank you for the kind words and the support! :)
Masterful analysis. Time just flew by.
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed! :D
40:12 chara might’ve been able to save, but if you recall, their death was planned and was fully suicide. They chose not to revive, so they could get at the human village and use asriel’s hyperdeath body to kill the humans, then they were overwritten by flowey when he gained control over the timeline.
An adult chara has always been an interesting concept. I prefer chara not be involved in the narrative but it would be so cool if we could at some point meet humans in the game especially adult humans. I ALSO THINK THIS IS AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION NOT TIMELINE
It would be very cool to meet an adult human! It seems feasible that we might meet one at some point before this game is complete. Oh man. Imagine if we met a human and they called themselves Gaster? The fanbase's collective head would explode! XD
In terms of how alternate worlds work, timelines and dimensions are the exact same thing.
I've been following your channel since your Death Battle days. The reason I've stuck around so long is because I think your scripts, and performance of your scripts, are a great combination. It's not something the layperson quite consciously understands, but do understand subconsciously. People drop boring videos, but keep watching ones that can keep them engaged. Your scripts are really thoughtful, and your delivery feels sincerely interested and passionate in your subject matter. You're delivering thorough lines of reasoning, scrutinizing them. You seem pretty fair and open-minded- which sadly feels pretty rare in theory and power level stuff. On top of all this, you're an engaging host, presenting everything in a way that's pretty easy and natural to listen to. Basically, you've found your 'voice', as writers call it? You make it look easy! I guess I notice all these things because I struggle so much with all those things in my videos! Making a good script is tough!
I'd say the 'simplest' but hardest to implement advice to take your videos to the next level, would be to start spicing up your editing. For this series, you could start adding gameplay footage, maybe just as B roll footage, to make the video more interesting visually. However, it's hard to implement, because that higher fidelity editing requires more resources and time, thus affect release frequency (my videos take forever to edit, ugh). But ultimately, the bedrock of any good video is the story. They journey you're taking the viewer on. Which you can clearly do- since even with just basic visuals, you've got a lot of people really engaged with your videos. That's how it should be. That's how you know you make good videos, good stories. Because the flashiest editing in the world can't hide bad writing. But they do elevate good scripts. The time between your last Deltarune video and this one was really short, so if you can keep up this upload frequency while taking baby steps in terms of visuals, that'd be ideal.
It should already be apparent to you looking at your own analytics (congrats on getting a single vid to 4k watch hours jeez!), but you have an interested audience. As long as you keep writing scripts with this much thought and passion, if you keep tackling trending subject matters, you can definitely become successful on youtube. Though please only tackle things you're sincerely interested in- try and find a happy medium between passion and trending topics, like these Deltarune videos. Don't sell out! You have so much potential!!
tl;dr keep goin jaru you make da good video
I cannot express how grateful I am for your support and kind words Lo F. Fort. It really means a lot to hear such thorough praise and constructive advice. If it's rare to see fair and open-minded videos, then I'd say it's even rarer see supportive constructive criticism, and you have most certainly provided that! I didn't expect much of my Death Battle audience to roll over into my DELTARUNE stuff, but I'm very glad to see that I have at least a little appeal as a host, and that I'm not just one more Death Battle fan channel.
I can definitely agree that my video editing leaves a bit to be desired. It's incredibly simplistic, and I would be lying if I claimed otherwise. However, I do have a reason for using this style. Anytime I make any sort of video, the editing is the hardest part. I don't enjoy video making, to be blunt. It's rough. I have files upon files of projects that never saw the light of day because I got half-way through editing, got exhausted, and quit. Even just editing the audio is a nightmare. I'm astonished I managed to finish a video this long, to be honest. So, while I 100% agree that my editing could be better, it's definitely a situation where I'm sacrificing visual flair for the sake of actually getting the video out. Maybe someday I'll actually feel dedicated enough to invest more in the editing, but for the time being, it's a price I have to pay for making any content at all. Either way, I appreciate the advice. When I hear people praising my video, it makes me happy. But when it's nothing but praise, or the advice is solely focused on my theories/scripts, then it can be hard to tell if the video editing itself was any good. So, thank you for actually giving some feedback. It means a lot.
And of course, thank you for the encouragement. This is the first time I've ever felt like my channel had any meaningful potential. In the Death Battle days, I had fun, I was passionate, but my content had barely any audience, and absolutely zero staying power. Who wants to watch a review of Doctor Strange VS Doctor Fate in 2021? But now, with this, it feels like I'm actually contributing something to the internet. Like I'm actually partaking in a meaningful discussion rather than just tacking myself onto someone else's success. I still have to care about what I make; I wouldn't be making DELTARUNE videos if I didn't adore this game, but I can see now that actually trying to talk about things that a wide audience cares about is a much better path for personal success.
TL;DR: I cannot understate how much I appreciate this comment. Your kind words are appreciated, your advice is heard, and your support means something. Thank you, and I hope you have a wonderful 2022!
On the eye thing, I'd like to make note of the fact that in undertale, when certain characters have aspects that represent their souls, its reflected in their eye color (ex: Undyne's yellow eyes). When these characters make use of their "soul powers" their eyes flash with those specific colors. I think the red eyes are representative of determination at work, especially since every time they're seen between the two characters, they're using determination to do something
The problem with the possession theory of eye color is when Frisk is possessed, they suddenly have Chara's rosy cheeks
i agree if kris is a mirror to a undertale character it would probably be frisk or even patience over chara , but chara never uses a knife as a weapon ether , unless you do genocide , take the knife and then equip it, then they only get violent because you refuse to quit even though you are unable to hit sans . further more there is no evidence that chara was violent at all , at least not sense they fell to the underground and how they where before the fall is unknown . there is a lot of evidence that chara's love for the monster took priority over there haltered of humans . for instance flowy knew that the control of the body is shared between the stolen souls and the host but did not foresee that the souls would overpower him .that's probably do to chara giving in to asriel when he decided to go back instead of fight the humans m while asriel probably believed that he took control by force and thus giving a false sense of ease of controlling stolen souls . only evidence of violence there is on chara is self harm . i know mostly off topic and irrelevant to the point of the theory but people over demonizing chara is a pet peeve of mine . also damn if your timeline is correct ralsei has been waiting a long time , over a century for someone to show up , assuming that kris and suzy where the 1st people he encountered sense he made the manual that is
I see where you're coming from, and you make a fair point! I do believe that the Chara we encounter in the Genocide Route is pure evil, but not because they were always evil. I assume the Genocide Chara is evil for the same reason that Flowey is evil: They don't have a soul anymore. That said, I don't think Chara was pure evil in life. I think they were filled with hate for humanity, and wanted to take revenge against them, but sure, I definitely don't think Chara wanted to hurt the monsters.
That said, Chara's entire plan was to fuse with Asriel so that they could murder some innocent human villagers, which is definitely an evil thing to plan to do. It's evil for the same reason that Asgore killing the human children was evil. Does that make Chara evil as a whole? No. I don't think so. I think Chara was an abused child filled with hate and a thirst for revenge, but I wouldn't say they were pure evil. I totally get why that would be a pet peeve of yours. Chara was definitely more nuanced than people give them credit for. x)
Chara was always evil. The weapon is literally THEIR WEAPON and since when you kill flowey there is a slash effect, equipping the knife is literally canon. Chara manipulated Asriel, poisoned Asgore, and will not even let you leave waterfall during the genocide route without killing every single monster there. Chara was even said to be a bad person by Asriel, the person that loved Chara unconditionally even when his soul was gone. I could go on and on, but I think that I made my points clear, and I think people who believe Chara is, was, or ever could be good are idiots.
@@JaruJaruJ As much as I respect you, I have been noticing that you miss a lot of stuff that I see immediately. First off, we get a rediculous amount of info about how Chara was before they died, and every single bit of it makes their reputation worse. From the true lab alone we get to learn that Chara poisoned Asgore, laughed about it, then went to Asriels face to say that they were going to commit suicide so that they can murder six human children. They would know from direct experience that requiring the death of innocent people would scare a young child like Asriel, and yet they questioned him when he began crying about it, and manipulated Asriel by asking him why he doubted them. From Asriel himself, you get to learn that Chara brought their own dead body to the surface in order to attract attention from humans, and held angry feelings towards Asriel when he resisted the influence. I love Deltarune theories, but I have no respect for Undertale ones because Undertale leaves no room for any speculation, it just gives you every single answer on a silver platter.
@@sayyidassons9332 was chara a bad person yes , where they evil no . they did less evil shit the most of the other characters and they where a child influenced by the abuse of humans and by the corruption of you the player .if you want to more info take a look at " who is the true villain of undertale " by fleur merigold " and " underale - chara theory [followup] " .
@@thefmx001 That video is full of BS and fact twisting. There has never been evidence that Chara was abused by humanity, and in Undertale we do nothing to them except listen to their commands.
27:23 "* (You shut the book quickly.)"
More important than you may thing, it says "You" instead of "Kris". In the fight with spamton neo during the snowgrave route, when calling Susie and Ralsei for help, it say "Kris called for help... ... bu nobody came", Finally when calling Noelle, it spefically says, "YOU whispered Noelle's name..." Instead of Kris specifically Kris calling for help, it was actually the player, revealing that the player hates humans(somehow??), that the lore is hidden, or that it doesn't matter.
You make a good point! Oh man. I'm going to have to go through all the dialogue and the game and divide them into "Kris" and "You" aren't I? That's gonna be exhausting. xD
@@JaruJaruJ :)
But... isn't the player us, is the red soul a different entity than the players?
Who knows really, it could be that players can control anyone with a red soul, maybe the red soul IS the player, maybe the soul turns red when its being controlled by a player. We don’t have enough information yet about red souls to make any assumptions
Important note. About Gaster. His theme plays in the character creation section of the game. It’s missing a note, and the song just pauses where that note would be. Also the “garbage noise” that plays when you call people in the dark world is the static that plays when he speaks to you.
Something I think you forgot to mention about frisk is that frisk actually wants to be asgore’s kid.
When Gerson is telling them about boss monsters frisk seems to ask him what would happen if they become his kid.
This video is s a personal favorite of mine, because it really drives home the idea of what Toby WANTS us to think vs. what might actually be going on in the game. If Kris and Frisk really do end up being alternate versions of each other, it’ll put both games in a whole different light.
I'm flattered! And I couldn't agree more! I think the line between what Toby wants us to think VS what is really going on is definitely one people don't acknowledge all too often, which is a shame! I think there's a lot more to be discovered in this narrative if you are willing to look past the surface-level narrative. x)
41:09 Flowey is addressing Chara, or at least he thinks he is, he finishes his speech saying "See you later... Chara"
41:38 Who says Ralsei is Asriel?
"Who says Ralsei is Asriel?"
You might want to see Jaru's "horrifying theory" on Asriel.
my Theory/headcanon about Frisk's backstory: they were born with pure red eyes... and because its rare humans showed that we are not smartest and just start to terrorize Them cuz They have red eyes. Frisk managed to have eyes always closed... They move with listening to voice of their Heart or SOUL if you will. Bandage was sorta armor to avoid those conflicts but they found stick so they can just use it as one time use defense... turned out this stick isn't one use but not great defense nonetheless. They then learn the legend of Mount Ebott and decided to climb it, since no one is immune to depression, and UT players know the rest. Edit: me from 1 year into the future, I'm staying with the fact humans bullied Frisk for their eyes, but I did get somewhat fanfic-y at the very very end, and fixed some spelling mistakes. though main point always was "Frisk was bullied" and back then I wasn't as good with english.
That's a lovely interpretation! x)
I don't know if anyone has said this yet but Kris' behavior could be because of everything they've experienced. Kris is uncomfortable around humans, suggesting they have a bad history with them. They get adopted into a monster family only to have their parents get divorced and then later their older brother, who seemed to be the only person left that they felt close to, left for college. Though their baseline personality is someone who's kind and more pacifist, having so many traumatic things happen to them at a young age messes with a child's mental and emotional health. Maybe it's why they act out in certain occasions. Like scaring Noelle or maybe even the tire slashes. Slashing the tires and opening the dark fountain could be their way of, like you said, fulfilling Susie's wish and maybe even to get Toriel to see Kris for who they can be when they're in the dark world. When they took the knife out all they really did was eat the pie whole.
For the first time since Asriel left, Kris has people they can confide in, Susie and Ralsei because of the dark world. He also gained friends in Noelle and kinda Berdly too because of the dark worlds. Maybe now they opened this new fountain to see if they can get closer to their mom. Idk.
Basically i think Kris' behavior can be boiled down to trauma and trauma responses.
I really liked your video!
I totally agree! I think Kris is generally a good kid but has some baggage and immaturity that kinda obscures their goodness from time to time. Not to mention the whole "is currently getting possessed by some unknown force in their soul" situation, which definitely doesn't help with their image.
Thank you for the comment and the kind words! :D
@@JaruJaruJ yeah getting possessed would probably make you do some weird stuff 😂
About Gerson's death possibly being at the same "time" in the timeline, if the alarm clock stuff is canon then Rudy died before the events of UT which means the order/time of thier deaths would be a discrepancy. Also if Asriel was born at a different time, what's to stop every other character possibly being born at a different time thus nullifying the timeline? WIth how different the timelines are I'm unsure if we can use the UT one to deduce stuff about DR .
Thank you for the comment! My thoughts:
The Alarm Clock App seems to take place at some undisclosed time AFTER the ending of the True Pacifist Route of UNDERTALE. This could be a couple days, a couple weeks, or a couple years later. We don't really know. We never met Rudy in UNDERTALE, but we also never got any confirmation that he was dead either. As such, it's quite possible that Rudy was alive during the events of UNDERTALE but died before the events of the Alarm Clock App. Asgore even states that Noelle and Dess are still "growing up," implying they're still teens or kids. So, it's not necessarily a discrepancy with DELTARUNE's timeline.
You're not wrong, there's no reason to think that Asriel would be the ONLY monster with a different birth date. It's entirely feasible that other monsters do to. However, DELTARUNE seems to actively disagree with the idea of characters being born earlier or later, hence why the status quo is so similar to UNDERTALE, despite this timeline being so different. It's not so much that I personally believe that Asriel was born at a later time. Rather, it's that DELTARUNE's characters are all so similar to UNDERTALE's characters, that I am forced to assume that whatever caused the timeline to shift, it didn't alter the monster society all that much. Hence why all these characters have the same names, ages, and personalities they did in UNDERTALE. I don't really have an explanation for why Asriel specifically is breaking the status quo. That's why I said he may be an exception. It's because he DOES seem to be a discrepancy. It's just that, compared to the other interpretations, Kris being Frisk has the fewest discrepancies.
And lastly, you're right, it may not be feasible to use UNDERTALE to deduce things about DELTARUNE. It may be an alternate reality with no connections to each other, after all. I personally think they're similar enough that we CAN draw some conclusions, but that's just my perspective. I could be wrong. x)
@@JaruJaruJ Asgore says that he was never able to show Rudy the sun, so it’d have to be before they get out right?
Good point. Although, it's possible that Rudy died AFTER Frisk broke the barrier, but BEFORE he got the chance to leave the underground. Maybe. A bit dubious, I'll admit.
That said, I've thought of a better argument: We don't know why Rudy is dying. We don't know what the specifics of his illness are. For all we know, whatever is killing him managed to kill him faster in UNDERTALE for unknown reasons. Maybe being trapped underground accelerated his illness. Maybe the lack of surface-world medical technology meant they weren't able to keep him alive as long as they do in DELTARUNE. I think there's enough wiggle room here to fix this discrepancy, but it's too early to tell. We need more info about Rudy's illness before we can tell if this is a discrepancy or not.
@Antagonist
I think a reason for why Rudy may have died in Undertale but not yet in Deltarune may be because in Deltarune he has modern medicine keeping him alive at the hospital (therefore prolonging his life).
I would also like to add that in Undertale I believe that the book explaining monster death and falling down says something like “monsters are not experienced with illness” supporting that in UT they aren’t as experienced with treating illnesses, which could easily explain Rudy’s early death in UT but his prolonged life in Delta.
YESS! I was so excited for this video and yelled when I got the notification.Thank you so much I love how you explain things and your theories about the game :)) keep up the good work :)
You are too kind! I'm glad you enjoyed it! :D
y same
1:01: Ever seen the theory that the Soulless ending is a fake-out? The pie one does not show Frisk being violent, while the 'cross out' version doesn't show any violence: It's the players' interpretation that those are monsters they have killed, based on what you have to do to get there. It could represent people Frisk has visited.
That might be the case. I'm not sure I personally believe that, but it's possible I suppose.
@@JaruJaruJ I gave it little thought before Delta Rune Ch 2. Now I wonder.
I love the idea of them both having red eyes since they usually try to hide their eyes
I wonder if Frisk potentially having red eyes is what possibly led them to climb the mountain (because humans maybe mistreated them for those eyes)
Interesting theory! I hadn't considered that.
*them. It's clearly about transphobia if Frisk actually went there to commit suicide (or in a less horrifyingly dark instance, just to disappear inside the mountain or whatever)
@@ultravioletcatastrophe Sorry I forgot that Frisk was also considered nonbinary. I’ll edit my comment. Although idk if we have enough info to say it’s clearly transphobia, not because it’s unlikely or not possible or anything like that, but because I’m not sure if Toby would include it. Again, not saying you’re wrong nor that I’m right or anything… I think it’s a good theory, but idk if Toby would directly include that because he tries not to include real world bigotry (just monster-human bigotry)
Oh ohhh that's why they closed their eyes most of the time :O
58:50
not that it matters but a trope of shapeshifting or possessing people is that they retains the eye color of THEIR original form
after all "eyes are the gateway to the soul" ;D
True. xD
Wow, I'm loving your videos! I don't know if anyone else has already pointed this out, but hidden in the files of Undertale there's a beta set of Frisk sprites that really seem like to resemble a younger Kris. They have the same face, with hair covering their eyes!
Thanks! I'm glad! And yes, I do know about the unused sprite. x)
This seriously might be my favourite Undertale/Deltarune speculation video on UA-cam, and there’s a lot out there
I learned so much, and love the detail you went into on this. I wish this got more attention
Thank you very much for the kind words! Honestly this video has done so much better than any other that I've made, so I'm just happy to see it get the support it has. x)
I thought of the dumbest thing that I don't know if it matters much or even proves anything, but thinking of "Kris" as a name, it sounds a lot like Chris, right? But the H is omitted and C became a hardened K. Chris is short for Christopher. What if we did the same thing to the other side of the name? Kristofer. There is the F we were looking for. If we however take the omitted H and place it elsewhere then it becomes an anagram of "Other Frisk". This is probably stretching it a lot but I found it interesting nonetheless.
Holy cow. That feels SO CLOSE to being true that it's actually kinda insane. Great idea! If they ever reveal that Kris is short for something, and it ends up being an anagram of something like "Other Frisk," that would be the craziest prediction! Very cool concept!
@@JaruJaruJ It's probably just a funny coincidence tbh, Christopher is mainly a masculine name and Kris is gender neutral and all, but it was fun to think about! Thank you for your thoughts!
That would completely explain why Clamgirl said Frisk might've been looking for Suzy.
I think it’s note worthy that kris’s soul turning yellow might be more then just a soul mode it’s the only one that changes on its own:
Undertale:
Blue: Papyrus turns the soul blue with his blue attack
Green: undyne turns it green at the start of the fight
Purple: muffet turns it purple with her teapots
Yellow: the new iPhone app turns you into a gun(alphys adds a function on the phone to turn it yellow)
Deltarune:
Yellow: turns yellow on its own to defend kris from Spamton neo
Edit: this is a very fragile theory as if a single other soul mode occurs like this it all falls apart
Question: How do we know Asriel wasn't supposed to be college age at the end of undertale too? Yes he's a child when we defeat him, but maybe that's because that's the age he was when he died. If he had survived chara's death, maybe he would be college age by the time frisk fell.
Absolutely amazing analysis of the whole series, but there's a big detail you missed.
Frisk's eyes have actually been shown in the official cover art for Undertale, it's the one where Frisk is looking down at an insect while Toriel pats their head. The color seems to be brown with yellow highlights, or perhaps the yellow highlights are sheen.
This would mean that Frisk's red eyes would definitely be a result of Chara's possession of them.
That has been brought to my attention, and here are my thoughts:
I think I'll chalk that up to either NOT being Frisk, and actually being Chara, OR it's a non-canon Kickstarter image that shouldn't be considered accurate. After all, their shirt isn't really accurate to Frisk or Chara, and Flowey is there hanging out, which is weird. There's no real opportunity for this image to happen in the timeline as far as we know, so I can only assume it's not canon. And I think the fact that every OTHER piece of Frisk media shows them with their eyes closed is evidence enough to consider the Kickstarter image an outlier.
Regardless, thank you for the kind words!
I don't think it makes sense to consider any info from outside the games as canon, unless it's explicitly stated to be
they also have like 14 pink stripes on their shirt instead of 2.
32:48
Ok, good theory so far, except I REALLY disagree that "Kris" is the one opening this dark fountain and doing this weird soul-rippy stuff. And I think it is the true biggest red herring Toby has given us.
One thing EVERYONE seems to gloss over for whatever reason is that the cage "seeing many crashes" and Toriel's comment about Kris doing the sink stuff regularly suggests very very heavily that Kris has been doing this soul-ripping stuff for a LONG time now, far before we arrived on the scene. And we know that, prior to us arriving, Kris acted completely normal (well, "normal" for Kris standards, which according to Noelle means not being sociable). So this means, either their own soul was in their body, or they had control of their soul, or whatever. Whatever it is, Kris was the one in control of their actions.
So, *why would they rip out their own soul*? Literally what motivation would they have to do that? And listen, Kris might be mischievous, but nothing suggests they are evil enough to slash their own mother's tires in an attempt to have their friend stay over. If they feel guilty just for stealing 5 bucks from Asriel's drawer, I highly doubt they are willing to slash their mother's tires just because they don't want to ask her to let their friend stay over.
Also remember that Kris tells Undyne that dark worlds are super dangerous and sounds worried people might fall in. So why would they ever, ever ever ever open the door to allow others to fall in AND open it in their own living room AND do it so that their own mother would fall in? None of it adds up, at all.
You might address this later, but I see no way that this can be reconciled. As evidence points to Kris being possessed by some other being, which would better explain why they scream after Spamton's fight. They are not resentful or scared of OUR control, they are scared of this entity that has been controlling them for a long time.
Also, going further, I think that your analysis of Kris being quite similar to Frisk is great, but I think the point is that Kris is some weird amalgamation of both Frisk and Chara and doesn't quite fit either character exactly, though they lean towards Frisk. In one recent interview with Toby, he says the inspiration for Kris and Ralsei is "obvious" unlike Susie (or something along those lines). Most obviously correct inspiration for Ralsei was Asriel, and the most obvious conclusion is that Kris is some weird mashup of both as many people have pointed out.
The obsession with chocolate, the obsession with **real** knives, siblinghood with Asriel, creepiness (remember Asriel's mention of Chara's creepy face and smile), mischeviousness, piano playing (why do you think the His Theme puzzle involves a piano?) and clothing color (including pants color) in the light world from Chara. None of these characteristics fit Frisk, at all.
Their color scheme in the dark world, care for their friends, love of monsters, bandage-wearing, use of wooden weapons, name, and passiveness from Frisk. Again, none of these characteristics fit Chara at all.
This doesn’t really have any implications for the timeline, but I think you should addressed the flip side more, because none of those characteristics in the first category sound like Frisk.
Thank you for the kind words! My thoughts:
I do agree that something is possessing Kris, but I don't agree that it is happening when they are soulless. I think that really is Kris. Kris is a mischievous teenager, and people comment on their mischief all the time. They steal candy and pie, they jumpscare Noelle, and Rudy even outright calls them the creepy kid next door. I 100% agree that something is possessing Kris from inside their Soul, and likely has been since before Chapter 1, but the rest of the time I sincerely believe that is completely Kris. I think they rip out their own soul to temporarily gain full control of their body. Furthermore, just because we don't get any text confirming it does NOT mean that Kris didn't feel guilty about slashing those tires.
I don't think Kris warning Undyne is super meaningful, as we as the player have to force them to tell her, and if Noelle's account is accurate, it's not normal for Kris to talk to anyone. It could be that Kris never would have warned Undyne if they had been given the choice. And as for them choosing to open the Dark Fountain, I think that lines up with their character quite well. Susie, Noelle, and Berdly had already been convinced that the Dark World is better than the real world, so why not Kris? Kris even has a conversation with Susie RIGHT BEFORE they open that Dark Fountain in which Susie talks about how much she wants to bring the Darkners to the Light World. I think Kris opening that Fountain is very consistent with their character thus far.
I talk about most of the discrepancies you mention regarding these Frisk attributes in the video, but I'll summarize here: Lots of people like chocolate, so Kris liking it isn't a hugely unique attribute. I think it's just a red herring on Toby's part. They don't really have an obsession with real knives, as they don't even carry one most of the time. They only wield a pencil as a weapon after all, and whereas Chara used their knife as a weapon, Kris only seems to use their knife as a tool for eating pie, slashing tires, and opening Dark Fountains. We've seen no evidence that they use their knife as a weapon. Plus, Frisk can wield a real knife too, so it's not wholly unique to Chara. Frisk may never be directly called creepy, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't become creepy when they're a teenager. And furthermore, one could argue that any asocial teen who doesn't talk and plays pranks would come across as creepy, and we have no way of knowing if that's the kind of teen Frisk grew into. The piano puzzle with "His Theme" was created by Undyne. It involved a piano because she knows how to play piano, so I think that's tied to her, not Asriel/Chara. And of course, clothing is pretty superficial. I don't think clothing should be considered indicative of a person's character. Lots of the UNDERTALE monsters in DELTARUNE are wearing new clothes, but their core characters are the same, so I don't think clothing means much.
In short, the idea that Kris may be an amalgamation of Frisk and Chara is certainly a popular theory, but I think it's just a bait. I think Kris is Frisk, full stop, and any similarities to Chara are either superficial, or are just there to confuse and distract the audience from the real plot of this game. Of course, I could be wrong. There's still a lot of mystery in this game!
Thank you for the kind words and the comment. x)
I like that you don't repeat stuff from videos like a flat-earther, but the birdcage has absolutely no connection to the soul-ripping stuff. Kris shows in chapter 2 that they will gladly put the soul anywhere, and the fact that Toriel is okay with the birdcage being in there means that they had a pet berd in their house. Kris has not been ripping the soul out, and as far as we know they probably knew nothing about their soul until Ralsei talked about it.
As I should clear up, Chara and Kris have nothing in common, as you would know if you paid attention to the video. Chara doesn't like chocolate, loves hurting people, and uses a knife as a weapon. Kris likes chocolate, but only as much as a normal person would. Kris always back's away from conflict, and never, ever, under any circumstances, uses a weapon to hurt people.
This analysis is amazing!! You have put so much effort into createing this insane idea ❤
One thing i noticed was that Frisks left foot is slightly bigger then the right which is the same as Kris,s foot :)
Thank you for the kind words! :D
I haven't delved into Deltarune enough to make any theories myself, but your thought process in the portion of the video discussing Undertale's timeline of events was nearly IDENTICAL to mine. When I started questioning exactly how old the main monster characters that we see in Undertale are, and what age headcanons I could possibly create to base my content off of, I remembered that some characters had numbers in their online usernames, similar to how we usually put our birth year numbers in the username or email. Of course that wouldn't have any value if I didn't know what year is was now, so I went back to the intro of undertale remembering it gave a date of when the human fell. Thankfully it was more specific than i expected, so according to their usernames, Papyrus would be anywhere from 16 to 25, and undyne would be anywhere from 19 to 28 (assuming their lifespan is similar to a human's, since if it was longer they probably would put a third number like "194" instead of "94"). Then when it came to Toriel, Asgore, and Gerson, knowing they'd all participated/witnessed the human and monster war, I had to find out when exactly, or at least approximately, the war happened. I went back to the intro to look for clues, and then I noticed that tge attire the humans were wearing seemed to resemble more medieval-style attire, I realized that the war might have happened much longer ago than I'd thought. I don't remember if I found that "millenia" comment from Bratty at the time, but I think it's more likely to be an exaggeration knowing catty and bratty's speech patterns. Reguarding Gerson, I'm still a little concerned about it since from what I've found tortoises don't live for more than like 150 years, and I didn't think he was a boss monster because he visibly aged despite the game not having any mention of his kids, but I decided to put that off for later and just assume that because he is a tortoise MONSTER his life span is even longer than that of a regular tortoise.
So from then on I had a rough idea of the characters' ages, and since I didn't see anyone talk about how the war mkght have actually happened in medieval times or even longer ago, I made a post on my channel talking about my theory. THEN someone pointed out to me the fact that the human in the cutscene is actually Chara and not Frisk, which can be seen from the amount of stripes on their sweater and just the fact that the cutscene continues when we reach the end of the game. It threw me for a loop for a brief moment, but then I thought that it would be reasonable enough to assume that Frisk fell at least ~100 years after Chara did, since the numbers in Undyne's and Papyrus's username (assuming it's their birth years) wouldn't make as much sense considering their characters if the year when frisk fell was not somewhere in the 10s or 20s of a later century. I stopped at "exactly 100 years later" though, since 1. It was the same *day* as Chara fell already, so why not make it even more matching with when Chara fell, and 2., I thought that anything past 200 years would lead to much more drastic cultural and technological advances than it's shown in Undertale, plus there really isn't that much evidence to shoot for something more specific, so I stopped there.
I took that a little further though, and for the sake of having specific ages on my hands, I headcanon that Chara actually fell in 2015, the same year that the game was released, assuming Toby put "201X" because he wasn't sure when exactly the game would be released.
Sorry for making this so long, I totally understand if you don't wanna read the whole thing lmao-
Thanks for the comment! I'm glad we reached similar conclusions! Studying the UNDERTALE timeline (and the UT world-building in general) is always a fascinating and difficult process. Fun though! x)
@@JaruJaruJ Yeah, I once sat down to play undertale and took notes on every single detail I felt was notable in a giant iphone note because I realized that my viewes on the characters were completely and utterly misguided. I mostly wrote down stuff about the pacifist run since I really don't wanna do genocide, but I did watch a playthrough of it briefly and reviewed the neutral run endings
I still missed a lot of stuff, but I also have _extensive_ character analysies in that note
I can't remember where I saw it, but someone somewhere said "The "F" in Frisk stands for Freedom"
Huh. Interesting. Oh! So the fact that Kris is being possessed, and thus does NOT have Freedom, is why they don't have the F in their name? I like that! That's a really clever theory!
All these years later and this video is what makes it dawn on me why a younger-than-a-preteen child who hates violence would climb a mountain while wearing a bandage that’s already been used multiple times. Harrowing.
Edit: Crazy idea: what if Hometown is the DT version of whatever is at the foot at Mt. Ebott? And at one point in DT you get to climb Mt. Ebott, and find a hole at the top, probably only accessible after some crazy hard and completely optional challenges/puzzles.
On a true pacifist route, the narration remarks “Toriel always said not to go too close to the edge! It’s dangerous.”
On a neutral route (or Pacifist/Weird mix) is merely remarks that it’s a big hole.
And on a full Genocide/Weird route it remarks…
“Wouldn’t want to do that again.”
Great vid tho bro, good work 👍
Thank you very much! And yeah, Frisk's true origin may be rather dark, to put it lightly.
And yeah, I would LOVE to have some crazy optional Mt. Ebbot area in DELTARUNE! That would be awesome! And oh man, if you went to the ledge and could say "Wouldn't want to do that again," that would break the internet's brain! xD
Thank you for the comment!
There are some points I'm not sure about, but I'll put them here in the hopes they are worth discussing:
I remember hearing something about 201X and 201x being different dates; one being Chara's arrival and the other the year Frisk falls into the Underground. I don't remember where I found this so I have no sources to back this up. I think it was related to the calendars in Home and New Home, but I think both of those are marked "201X", and like in the video Chara's genocide-exclusive quote for Asgore's calendar refers to it as "the day [they] came here".
There is also this theory I personally like and wish to add is how Chara is not really evil. In fact, they simply respond to the player's actions, so the more violent the player becomes, the more Chara is attuned to violence. It's just that Chara and their influence on Frisk (whom in turn is being influenced by the player) becomes more pronounced in the Genocide route, as they become more violent and more active in pursuing that violence. The link to that theory is here(ua-cam.com/video/MYHXpdNqdGs/v-deo.html) I also feel it should be pointed out that LOVE does not make one evil, but more apathetic to the suffering of others, and thus more _capable and susceptible_ to evil or evil acts. Which would also explain why the "no chocolate" can be read as selfish; they've grown to not care about others
I have nothing more to say (or I forgot), so maybe I'll edit this with more stuff if I remember.
Yeah, a lot of people were miffed at my characterization of Chara. I specifically referred to Chara's goals as evil, and not Chara themselves, as I knew that they as a person were not pure evil or anything, but some folks still took it poorly. I do stand by my statement that Chara's goal WAS evil, as they planned to cross the barrier and murder several innocent people. Premeditated murder is definitely unethical. It was evil when Asgore did it, and it was evil when Chara tried to do it. Does that make Chara and Asgore evil people? No, of course not. They had good intentions, even if their actions were evil. But their actions WERE evil, and there's no denying that. Every monster who attempts to murder Frisk IS acting in an evil way. They may be well intentioned, but child murder is evil. Furthermore, Asriel explicitly states that Chara was not a good person, so it's hardly crazy for me to paint them in a negative light.
Still, to be clear, I am aware that Chara was morally grey. They had some bad things happen to them, they did some bad things, they had some good things happen to them, and they did some good things. There is nuance to their existence to be sure.
Either way, thank you for the utterly massive comment. x)
There is another little problem with the timeline. You see, in the alarm clock dialogues Asgore mentioned they Rudy died before the barrier was destroyed, meaning that Rudy died before 211X in your theory, whereas in Deltarune which is supposed to be in 212X, he is still alive. Of course this can be explained through minor changes but thought I would point it out.