Paper stock absolutely does make a difference in the art. I work primarily in black and white and my first published comic book was on newsprint. When my next work was printed on a white heavier stock, I was shocked by how much better my work looked! In more recent years, my printer began using a glossy stock (on which I'm sure colored work looked great). But it took a few issues for me to realize I didn't really like the way my work looked on a slicker stock-a few issues back, I specifically asked for plain white bond and it indeed looked and felt better to me, so I know now to stick to that kind of paper for my books.
I’m trying to grow bigger balls in drawing with my inks. I’m older and aspire to illustrate books but life got in the way. I admire the “keep at your craft”. I don’t regret my life and I’m a good artist but inking the fear of mistakes held me back. If your an artist my advice be inspired by guys like Ed and Jim and go for it. I’ve been inking over my older work and I do feel more confident after watching Kayfabe for two years.
Your probably a great inker and don't even know it. I imagine you delving into your fear and being radical, finding your form away from the norm. Keep at it !
Sadly, as I understand it, work for hire/contractors (most comic book writers/artists) are unable to unionize due to some Department of Labor laws which the WGA predates. Publishers, especially the big two, know this and take advantage of it as much as they can. Work for hire sucks.
I messaged you guys on Instagram already, but for the other Kayfabers here. My wife and I have an AirBnB behind our house. We had this old folk musician named Si come stay with us recently. We're just sitting around talking and he casually drops that his sister, Jenette, used to work for DC. It was like, wait, Jenette Kahn?? Small world.
Maybe the best episode you guys have made - just a great discussion of the business of “work-for-hire” and royalty pay. Could have listened to 4 hours of this.
Videos like these are educating a whole new wave of creatives and I thank you for it. You guys do alot of the diggin' for the fans that are also creatives. You're not getting into specifics of contracts but you're shedding enough light that everyone should do a little diggin' themselves and think twice before signing a contract. So much of the comic industry plays the creative's love of the medium or the characters against them when it comes to pay and royalties.
This interview was so instrumental for me when I first read it at the time it appeared. I went out and looked for lots of the stuff Miller was namedropping in the only places you could find it -- NYC conventions, the first Forbidden Planet store, SohoZat ( a great, now forgotten store on West Bway in Manhattan)... Truly a gem. So happy you guys are covering this!!
What I remember about the 80s pre-internet, pre-Wizard Magazine, was not knowing what our favorite creators looked like. When Comics Scene magazine published a photo of Miller in ‘83 (I remember a full page ad for Ronin 1 in the mag- I even xeroxed the ad and taped it up in my locker at school!), it blew me away. Any young fan would have no idea today what that was like. Re: the cartoonists being like children who only want to draw. It’s every kind of creative industry where the creatives are bad business people, beholden to the money men and execs. How many times have we heard about recording artists willingly signing restrictive contracts just to get their records out there? And an album sells millions but the artist is going broke because they signed away their rights.
Great episode. Great point about the difference between Miller and Byrne. Byrne being the happy cog and Miller having a better understanding of his own value. It’s such an interesting period of time before the royalty program. It seems like now the big 2 have regressed.
I definitely write by drawing - a loose, sketchy version of my story which really comes to life when I ink. It's only in the last three years I've actually worked from written scripts (by other writers).
In early summer 1983 a friend gifted me a new copy of Ronin #1. I bought the next five, the every-six-weeks publication schedule was not maintained, issues 4, 5 & 6 appeared over the course of six or eight months. Still have the set, I loved the series from the first panel, yet it didn't escape me Eric Van Lustbader published The Sunset Warrior trilogy in 1977 & 1978 whose hero's name is Ronin. Both Lustbader and Miller's Ronins are badass martial artists and swordsmen. That subtracted a little of my enjoyment of Miller's Ronin---but it was too good a name not to use.
Love your streams guys. A shit ton of content. Good to see analysis from pros about the interiors rather than just covers all the time. Addicted to the 25c, 40c and 50c grabs. Hey I thought I'd throw out that I think you guys would benefit from a screen in screen where we could see your reactions and facial expressions. It would make a world of difference! Probably had it brought up already..
From a technical standpoint I don't think there's a groundbreaking approach to the media by Miller that can be inferred from this interview, considering that european comics were applying most of those concepts for more than two decades. This being said , the business side of the US comics scene needed a shake-up, and having a spotlight on those issues voiced by someone like Frank Miller , was fundamental to bring it closer to the editorial status of literature.
I agree that comic books do not belong to hollywood. Either movies or tv. When it comes to novels. I do not want any "buts, no, why, or how dare they do this!", sort of thing. Fans, and sometimes authors complaining. All because of deviations to the source material. That's what really annoys me. I'm a casual person. That has been a few years ago. This unnecessary arguing about books made into movies, tv shows, or other type of media. This type of arguments need to stop and put this needless bickering aside. Then again, what was the entire point of doing novels as films or tv shows in the first place? I agree they need to be part of hollywood. Maybe that's whole reason books needs be a part of hollywood. I misunderstood this all along. They were not butchering them. They were only wanted to deconstruct, experiment, and be subversions of the novel material. I don't care if authors don't enjoy it. To me, that's fine. I am not here for arguments. Books have the rights to do films and tv shows alike. I don't mind about changing things or going against the source material. Book adaptations need to be their own thing as well. Not just copy what the source material already did.
One of the best discussions you guys have had ever.
This is one of the must-watch episodes of CK
Totally agree that roughs and thumbnails are part of the writing process.
Paper stock absolutely does make a difference in the art. I work primarily in black and white and my first published comic book was on newsprint. When my next work was printed on a white heavier stock, I was shocked by how much better my work looked! In more recent years, my printer began using a glossy stock (on which I'm sure colored work looked great). But it took a few issues for me to realize I didn't really like the way my work looked on a slicker stock-a few issues back, I specifically asked for plain white bond and it indeed looked and felt better to me, so I know now to stick to that kind of paper for my books.
Guys found your channel few days ago. You all are amazing. Going to watch every video. Thank you for content.
I’m trying to grow bigger balls in drawing with my inks. I’m older and aspire to illustrate books but life got in the way. I admire the “keep at your craft”. I don’t regret my life and I’m a good artist but inking the fear of mistakes held me back. If your an artist my advice be inspired by guys like Ed and Jim and go for it. I’ve been inking over my older work and I do feel more confident after watching Kayfabe for two years.
Your probably a great inker and don't even know it. I imagine you delving into your fear and being radical, finding your form away from the norm. Keep at it !
We need a Frank Miller shoot interview. Miller is publishing new stuff, it`s now or never.
The kind of frank discussions about the state of the industry that a lot more creators need to be having at the moment with the strikes going on. 👏👏👏
Sadly, as I understand it, work for hire/contractors (most comic book writers/artists) are unable to unionize due to some Department of Labor laws which the WGA predates. Publishers, especially the big two, know this and take advantage of it as much as they can. Work for hire sucks.
I messaged you guys on Instagram already, but for the other Kayfabers here. My wife and I have an AirBnB behind our house. We had this old folk musician named Si come stay with us recently. We're just sitting around talking and he casually drops that his sister, Jenette, used to work for DC. It was like, wait, Jenette Kahn?? Small world.
Maybe the best episode you guys have made - just a great discussion of the business of “work-for-hire” and royalty pay. Could have listened to 4 hours of this.
Videos like these are educating a whole new wave of creatives and I thank you for it. You guys do alot of the diggin' for the fans that are also creatives. You're not getting into specifics of contracts but you're shedding enough light that everyone should do a little diggin' themselves and think twice before signing a contract. So much of the comic industry plays the creative's love of the medium or the characters against them when it comes to pay and royalties.
This interview was so instrumental for me when I first read it at the time it appeared. I went out and looked for lots of the stuff Miller was namedropping in the only places you could find it -- NYC conventions, the first Forbidden Planet store, SohoZat ( a great, now forgotten store on West Bway in Manhattan)... Truly a gem. So happy you guys are covering this!!
nice one! any chance you guys can interview Ricardo Delgado? Uncle Geof would know him for sure
What I remember about the 80s pre-internet, pre-Wizard Magazine, was not knowing what our favorite creators looked like. When Comics Scene magazine published a photo of Miller in ‘83 (I remember a full page ad for Ronin 1 in the mag- I even xeroxed the ad and taped it up in my locker at school!), it blew me away. Any young fan would have no idea today what that was like.
Re: the cartoonists being like children who only want to draw. It’s every kind of creative industry where the creatives are bad business people, beholden to the money men and execs. How many times have we heard about recording artists willingly signing restrictive contracts just to get their records out there? And an album sells millions but the artist is going broke because they signed away their rights.
Great episode. Great point about the difference between Miller and Byrne. Byrne being the happy cog and Miller having a better understanding of his own value. It’s such an interesting period of time before the royalty program. It seems like now the big 2 have regressed.
34:43 "Stand up for yourself man, because a hashtag ain't going to do shit." - Ed
Chef's kiss!
ahh ya beat me to it!!!
The boys are fired up during this whole vid and I love it
I definitely write by drawing - a loose, sketchy version of my story which really comes to life when I ink. It's only in the last three years I've actually worked from written scripts (by other writers).
As a cartoonist I feel the same way about writing too.
"cause a hashtag ain't gonna do shit." Word on that.
Keeping dropping that knowledge
Love the channel guys!
In early summer 1983 a friend gifted me a new copy of Ronin #1. I bought the next five, the every-six-weeks publication schedule was not maintained, issues 4, 5 & 6 appeared over the course of six or eight months. Still have the set, I loved the series from the first panel, yet it didn't escape me Eric Van Lustbader published The Sunset Warrior trilogy in 1977 & 1978 whose hero's name is Ronin. Both Lustbader and Miller's Ronins are badass martial artists and swordsmen. That subtracted a little of my enjoyment of Miller's Ronin---but it was too good a name not to use.
Love your streams guys. A shit ton of content. Good to see analysis from pros about the interiors rather than just covers all the time. Addicted to the 25c, 40c and 50c grabs. Hey I thought I'd throw out that I think you guys would benefit from a screen in screen where we could see your reactions and facial expressions. It would make a world of difference! Probably had it brought up already..
"cuz a hashtag ain't gonna do Sht" LOL. Ed always on point. Somebody make a shirt out of this.
From a technical standpoint I don't think there's a groundbreaking approach to the media by Miller that can be inferred from this interview, considering that european comics were applying most of those concepts for more than two decades. This being said , the business side of the US comics scene needed a shake-up, and having a spotlight on those issues voiced by someone like Frank Miller , was fundamental to bring it closer to the editorial status of literature.
I agree that comic books do not belong to hollywood. Either movies or tv. When it comes to novels. I do not want any "buts, no, why, or how dare they do this!", sort of thing. Fans, and sometimes authors complaining. All because of deviations to the source material. That's what really annoys me. I'm a casual person. That has been a few years ago. This unnecessary arguing about books made into movies, tv shows, or other type of media. This type of arguments need to stop and put this needless bickering aside. Then again, what was the entire point of doing novels as films or tv shows in the first place? I agree they need to be part of hollywood. Maybe that's whole reason books needs be a part of hollywood. I misunderstood this all along. They were not butchering them. They were only wanted to deconstruct, experiment, and be subversions of the novel material. I don't care if authors don't enjoy it. To me, that's fine. I am not here for arguments. Books have the rights to do films and tv shows alike. I don't mind about changing things or going against the source material. Book adaptations need to be their own thing as well. Not just copy what the source material already did.