Very cool to see the results. Thanks to the Customer for playing along and going for the valve job. Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge, Eric. I enjoy it.
It really depends on the machine shop and your area. The price ranges from $200-600 to valve job a pair of heads. I charge no more for 5angle vs 3angle. It takes me no more time to do either.
@@WeingartnerRacing That's cool. I guess the expense is in having the cutters made and you know from experience how many seats you can cut before they need sharpening or replacing?
Thanks again for all your efforts to educate us on the Valve job's, and how it affects the flow, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
Good info. Thanks for sharing both flow numbers of the one had that just had a valve job with no port work vs the head that this customer owns with port work and your valve job.
Very interesting results. Seems like that guy might be on a good way to a pretty nice working head with a valve job and some adjustment on the porting technique. I think this is a very good service youre offering. If I lived close by it take advantage of it for sure 👍
Eric, I've been a fan for quite a while, and we're going to wind up doing some business on a set of heads pretty soon. I love your channel, and everything about it, but my favorite part is how the captioning interprets your name. It's different every time, you should put a bunch of them on a shirt! "Hey guys, this is Eric from..... Wine Garden Racing One Gun Racing Winona Racing 😂😂😂😂😂
I just took my promaxx 185 heads appart and they have a 3 angle valve job. No under cuts bellow the 45° seat. Supposed to be 5 angle. I bought those heads in 2011-12ish.
What are the measured gains on shaping the valve guide boss alone?? Just curious, and thanks for an informative video. It would be interesting to see just narrowing the valve stem also, and every aspect of porting as a "stand-alone" mod.
Have You ever tested with a 30 deg. angle on the seat,I do know that all heads aren,t the same from different carmakers, on a AMC 502 "dogleg" head as an example ,a guy named Ken Parkman (in Canada) lost quite a bit flow when going with 45 deg. seats than what he got with 30 deg. seats. Important to notice is that AMC heads has 30 deg. seats from the factory,the "dogleg" heads was developed together with Valley Head Service's in California.
Eric, been watching you since 1k subs. Your cool. Ive always wondered, how angles are set to form oversll radius. And wonder why angles seem a given. And dont take into account individual port nuances, velocities in given comb etc. ?
@@WeingartnerRacing I have 2 heads just laying in my shop I could drop one off and have you flow it and do a valve job on a cylinder just to show for a video just to see the improvement for us poor people
Why not just a straight up cylindrical bevel cut into the valve and seal? Wouldnt that provide an adequate seal? Or are the transitioning flat surfaces better for some reason?
Question: Have you ever tried a 1.50 exhaust valve in a sbc head that has been ported to the 1.60 exhaust valve to see if it makes a difference in the flow? Bigger port with a .10 smaller valve with a single 45 degree cut. I'm just guessing but think it would have a better flow number.
very interesting , of course i know nothing about airflow and would really like to know how a port can flow the highest numbers without the valve being opened the most like in the 5 angle example at 450 lift??
What I learned: porting intake push rod pinch is a waste of time, I think it hurt low-lift flow by hurting velocity, just bowl, throat, and valve job. Spend your time on the exhaust, streamlining around guide boss, VJ. Thanks Eric
Because below .500 the 3 and 5 angle valve jobs flow considerably more. The 5 angle actually had more peak flow than the stock valve job (246 vs 242)and a lower lift. Most people running these have less than .500 lift so they are benefiting more. Don’t forget if you have a .500 lift cam you touching that point for a spit second while every other lift point you touch it twice.
@@WeingartnerRacing better to manage reversion with the valve head perimeter retain a square edge at the chamber AND seat edge.. the venturi effect past the valve/port seat airflow speed increase will shatter any fuel drop out into chamber.. thick exh valve head perimeter radiised helps a lot for exh out flow & avoids head heat distortion & hotspot & seat burn.. good vid thanks good to see others thinking.. cheers from NZ
Gained low lift flow, but lost on the high lift. So apparently, it's better to gain in low lift flow than gain in high lift, and even lose a little high lift flow? The valve is in the low lift ranges more than it is in the high lift ranges, Is that what this equates to? Thanks.
Eric is the pro. But I've heard of porter's trying to lose low lift flow. I don't recall why. Then you hear of them trying to gain low lift flow. Heads with large low lift flow act like they have a bigger cam. The situation they try to lose low lift flow or don't care are greater than .700 lift but I don't know all the reasons why.
The valve job angles are on the head. So if you have 3angles cut into the heads you have a 3angle valve job. The angles cut on the valves are back cuts. So you have two back cuts.
Incredible how the "Invisible" air flow #s make unpredictable change with slightest valve job shapes & angles !! ....Compared to "Regulated" constant Test Pressure (std 28") Air Flow Bench type, Does the "Unregulated" Test Pressure Flow Performance FP1 Electronic Correcting (to 28") Flow Bench generate the Same 28" Test pressure Results ?? .....If so, good but How can an actual Low (like 14" Pressure) be accurately Predicted to what Actually flows at the Higher Std 28" Test pressure ?? Doesn't air flow dirvert Unpredictably from Various minute Different angles at Different Test Pressures ?? .....The Exhaust Flow results was totally Unexpected !! .....With Actual Running engine hot exhaust Burst flow at Hundreds or Thousands psi Pressure, How can the Same cold 28" Test Pressure anyway remotely Predict the running Hot Flow rate & why is 28" used on the Exhaust ?? If say, 500 psi Burst is much Close to Actual Exhaust Conditions, Wouldn't that Be much more Accurate measurement ??? ......Thx for the informative vids.....
I don't know what you mean by race cut but the 5angle cut is race cut if you use it for racing. I do have more aggressive seat cutters but if you aren't porting they will flow less.
Very cool to see the results. Thanks to the Customer for playing along and going for the valve job. Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge, Eric. I enjoy it.
How much a 5 angle valve job cost about don’t have to give me what u charged but just a price range
It really depends on the machine shop and your area. The price ranges from $200-600 to valve job a pair of heads. I charge no more for 5angle vs 3angle. It takes me no more time to do either.
@@WeingartnerRacing That's cool. I guess the expense is in having the cutters made and you know from experience how many seats you can cut before they need sharpening or replacing?
Thanks again for all your efforts to educate us on the Valve job's, and how it affects the flow, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
Good info. Thanks for sharing both flow numbers of the one had that just had a valve job with no port work vs the head that this customer owns with port work and your valve job.
Thanks for watching.
Good video Eric.
You are absolutely correct.
Nice work and explanation.
Take care, Ed.
I appreciate you watching.
Very good information Eric
Thank you for the video
Thanks for watching.
Very interesting results.
Seems like that guy might be on a good way to a pretty nice working head with a valve job and some adjustment on the porting technique.
I think this is a very good service youre offering. If I lived close by it take advantage of it for sure 👍
Thanks 👍
Nice results
Very nice stuff
Thanks!
Eric, I've been a fan for quite a while, and we're going to wind up doing some business on a set of heads pretty soon. I love your channel, and everything about it, but my favorite part is how the captioning interprets your name. It's different every time, you should put a bunch of them on a shirt! "Hey guys, this is Eric from.....
Wine Garden Racing
One Gun Racing
Winona Racing
😂😂😂😂😂
One gun racing sounds good.
I just took my promaxx 185 heads appart and they have a 3 angle valve job. No under cuts bellow the 45° seat. Supposed to be 5 angle. I bought those heads in 2011-12ish.
Thank you for the info 😁
Thanks for watching.
What are the measured gains on shaping the valve guide boss alone?? Just curious, and thanks for an informative video.
It would be interesting to see just narrowing the valve stem also, and every aspect of porting as a "stand-alone" mod.
That would be interesting but I think rather expensive in labour?
Nice 👍🏿
Have You ever tested with a 30 deg. angle on the seat,I do know that all heads aren,t the same from different carmakers, on a AMC 502 "dogleg" head as an example ,a guy named Ken Parkman (in Canada) lost quite a bit flow when going with 45 deg. seats than what he got with 30 deg. seats. Important to notice is that AMC heads has 30 deg. seats from the factory,the "dogleg" heads was developed together with Valley Head Service's in California.
30degree seat is a bad idea.
Right on
Eric, been watching you since 1k subs.
Your cool.
Ive always wondered, how angles are set to form oversll radius. And wonder why angles seem a given. And dont take into account individual port nuances, velocities in given comb etc.
?
That would be a very boring video to make and watch trying to explain.
@@WeingartnerRacing im sure youd make it fun enough.
What about turbulence speed?
Reminds me of the older Mr. Pibb multi sided can.
I have never seen the cans like that.
@@WeingartnerRacing They had something like 16 or 32 sides. I always thought it was a neat idea.
I’m tempted to send my 882s I have just to see the difference in flow
Give it a shot. It would be interesting.
@@WeingartnerRacing I have 2 heads just laying in my shop I could drop one off and have you flow it and do a valve job on a cylinder just to show for a video just to see the improvement for us poor people
@@jeredfowler7194 I do charge $30 to flow and $30 for video.
@@WeingartnerRacing nice
@@WeingartnerRacing that's a fair price. Wish you were close to me. I do a lot of engines.
Why not just a straight up cylindrical bevel cut into the valve and seal? Wouldnt that provide an adequate seal? Or are the transitioning flat surfaces better for some reason?
An adequate seal is only half of a valves job, the other half is to flow as much air as possible when it's open. Multi angle has better aerodynamics.
Question: Have you ever tried a 1.50 exhaust valve in a sbc head that has been ported to the 1.60 exhaust valve to see if it makes a difference in the flow? Bigger port with a .10 smaller valve with a single 45 degree cut. I'm just guessing but think it would have a better flow number.
No. It would sink the exhaust valve in the head quite a bit.
@Eric Weingartner
Thanks for the info, was wondering if it would work.
very interesting , of course i know nothing about airflow and would really like to know how a port can flow the highest numbers without the valve being opened the most like in the 5 angle example at 450 lift??
Would flow increase on the intake , if you blend the valve job on the short turn side ?
I blended it as much as needs to be done.
Just tap on the screen what you're trying to focus on then zoom. Works great man. Not sure why you're having so many issues.
Did you mention it in the video? It looks like the intake with porting and the valve job had a bigger gain over the port with just the valve job.
Yes I did and you are correct
@Eric Weingartner is the loss of flow at .450 and above indicative of a short turn radius that needs some attention?
What I learned: porting intake push rod pinch is a waste of time, I think it hurt low-lift flow by hurting velocity, just bowl, throat, and valve job. Spend your time on the exhaust, streamlining around guide boss, VJ. Thanks Eric
Sir how we measure 30 degree 45 degree and 60 degre angle of valve seat what is a procedure kindly tell me sir
How or why did the stock seat cut flow higher than the 3 or 5 angle? Why not keep the lift to 500 and run the stock valve job?
Because below .500 the 3 and 5 angle valve jobs flow considerably more. The 5 angle actually had more peak flow than the stock valve job (246 vs 242)and a lower lift. Most people running these have less than .500 lift so they are benefiting more. Don’t forget if you have a .500 lift cam you touching that point for a spit second while every other lift point you touch it twice.
@@WeingartnerRacing Got it , makes sense. Thanks
Does blending the bottom cut really help flow that much? It seems like it would have some anti reversion with the little lip
Yes
If this cylinder head was direct injection would blending the intake angles help with flow ?
Radius might be better for direct injection.
You still have reversion so I think the angles are still better.
@@WeingartnerRacing better to manage reversion with the valve head perimeter retain a square edge at the chamber AND seat edge.. the venturi effect past the valve/port seat airflow speed increase will shatter any fuel drop out into chamber.. thick exh valve head perimeter radiised helps a lot for exh out flow & avoids head heat distortion & hotspot & seat burn.. good vid thanks good to see others thinking.. cheers from NZ
Price per hp tho ? Prob a lot of money in 5 angle job when his stock port job .. I doubt you feel that difference
It costs the same to do a 3angle valve job vs doing a 5angle valve job. Most stock heads need a valve job anyway so it costs you nothing extra.
Gained low lift flow, but lost on the high lift. So apparently, it's better to gain in low lift flow than gain in high lift, and even lose a little high lift flow? The valve is in the low lift ranges more than it is in the high lift ranges, Is that what this equates to? Thanks.
I like flow at about 80% of your valve lift.
@@WeingartnerRacing OK, thanks.
Eric is the pro. But I've heard of porter's trying to lose low lift flow. I don't recall why. Then you hear of them trying to gain low lift flow. Heads with large low lift flow act like they have a bigger cam. The situation they try to lose low lift flow or don't care are greater than .700 lift but I don't know all the reasons why.
Sick those heads ought to run pretty good if it was me id cut those valve guides on the top and put something with 600 lift in the old girl
I always cut them down for being able to use better seal even if they don't need more clearance.
How much does a valve job cost for vortec head whats the price difference between 3 and 5 angle
There is no price difference to do the valve job 3 vs 5 angle. But the 5 angle usually leaves a ledge that needs to be blended. $300 for valve job
@WeingartnerRacing thanks for the information 👍
I did a 6 angle job, 3 on the seat and 3 on the valve face.
The valve job angles are on the head. So if you have 3angles cut into the heads you have a 3angle valve job. The angles cut on the valves are back cuts. So you have two back cuts.
@@WeingartnerRacing I was being Snarky.
@@WeingartnerRacing back in the early 80s the hot ticket was it to have a radiused valve seat with the cut at 45° centered on the radius.
Three angles are more than enough.
Incredible how the "Invisible" air flow #s make unpredictable change with slightest valve job shapes & angles !! ....Compared to "Regulated" constant Test Pressure (std 28") Air Flow Bench type, Does the "Unregulated" Test Pressure Flow Performance FP1 Electronic Correcting (to 28") Flow Bench generate the Same 28" Test pressure Results ?? .....If so, good but How can an actual Low (like 14" Pressure) be accurately Predicted to what Actually flows at the Higher Std 28" Test pressure ?? Doesn't air flow dirvert Unpredictably from Various minute Different angles at Different Test Pressures ?? .....The Exhaust Flow results was totally Unexpected !! .....With Actual Running engine hot exhaust Burst flow at Hundreds or Thousands psi Pressure, How can the Same cold 28" Test Pressure anyway remotely Predict the running Hot Flow rate & why is 28" used on the Exhaust ?? If say, 500 psi Burst is much Close to Actual Exhaust Conditions, Wouldn't that Be much more Accurate measurement ??? ......Thx for the informative vids.....
They were flowed at 28inches
From the looks of it the Vortec heads barely gains anything for porting.
It does some but I don't think he was going crazy either.
So basically it doesn't make a difference ok cool.
It did make a difference
Why didn't you do a race cut????
I don't know what you mean by race cut but the 5angle cut is race cut if you use it for racing. I do have more aggressive seat cutters but if you aren't porting they will flow less.