Good to see you are really planning out the benchwork and taking the time to do it right. Too many times people just rush thru the benchwork and end up with problems later. Thanks for sharing.
So wish I was closer to be able to help with the layout. Sometimes, just extra hands. It's good to see the clamps doing some good! You can NEVER have enough clamps. 😉
I'd likely look at a simple 2x2 (1.5in sq) for the ledger board with countersunk screws into the studs. As you noted it's not needed too much for strength due to stud attachment so it can be rather short at the wall. It's qlso kinda wild how plywood bows like that! I had a sheet of 1/2in ply that i ripped down to 16in wide and it ended up similarly. I ended up using it for shelves under the layout.
I used 1X3's for the remaining benchwork and approached it a little differently. No L-Girders, more like a box frame only open at the front. Thanks for watching!
When following Linn Westcott, or landscaping like Dave Frary and their books which I have as well, we have to remember Linn was born in 1913, before the invention of plastic, and plywood. He was building benchwork using 2x4's that were actually 2 inches by 4 inches, that had to support standard gauge engines that weighed pounds not ounces. Of course build it the way you want, let's just remember Lin and Dave come from a bygone era in railroading, and some of the materials they were using don't exist anymore.
I’m probably too late if he works through everything this weekend, but there’s nothing to keep you from making that Egger with a vertical part up and sticking above the top of the bench work slightly. So when you look at it from the end, it’s an actual L. And you could probably use a one by three or even a one by two for the vertical part as long as it’s screwed into the wall at every wall. It should be strong enough. And then it would only stick up about 3/4” above the top of the plywood and that can easily be hidden when you blend the scenery into the backdrop. And of course, that would keep your painted backdrop, pristine.
Thanks Mike, yeah he got it worked out this weekend. I did lose a little bit of the top of the blue sky but not enough for it to matter, and you will never see it anyway. Thanks for stopping by and the input!
@@OtterCreek yeah just saw the end of the video LOL! Next time I’ll watch the whole thing first. And glad you used the 1x2 or 3 ply, that’s enough support. But other couple of thoughts on the face support: First, the vertical of the L-girder can be extended a bit above the horizontal top to the depth of the plywood, which will allow a greater span. Not a lot but every bit helps. Second, don’t forget that you’ll have support on the end from the wall perpendicular to the face support, which may eliminate the need for the metal angle supports. Third, your free span of 6’ can be cut down with a strong cantilever support from the wall. I’ve seen upper decks with 12’ and longer free span on the front with no vertical support but with cantilever supports only from the wall. And these can also be L-girder style and can be VERY strong! As an engineer I love playing with ideas and concepts of structural design for model RR’s working with my layout and also a friend’s right now and dealing with similar issues.
I did consider that, but I've already got all of this wood. I'm going to try to do it all with wood and see how it works. So far I'm pleased with the results.
Hi Dennis. Just a couple of comments that I hope will help. First that bad L-girder replace it. It will only get worse over time. It never should have done that when you are using plywood. Second I am concerned that if you have a derailment on the lower section I really do not see how you will be able to reach the back side safely without knocking other things over or pulling your back considering how deep it is. Otherwise keep up the great work. Your careful planning and transitional curves should give you a smooth running layout.
Thanks for thinking about my back Sierge! I suppose I could have a derailment on the reverse loop in the back corner. I've been operating it for two years now and I haven't had any derailments in any area. (I will now.. thanks Sierge!) 95% of the derailments I've had were on the throat switch, which I replaced and it is easily reached. The other 5% were also associated with turnouts. All of my turnouts were planned to be reached easily. In my experience derailments just don't happen on normal track unless there is an issue with the car/loco. That being said, I try and be very discriminating with the cars I run. If it can't make it through a turnout constantly without derailing it gets pulled and fixed. If I can't fix it, it stays in the lemon lot! Right now I have almost a whole trains worth of cars in the lemon lot!
Just wondering if it would be possible to “hang” the supports from the ceiling using threaded rod and turnbuckles. I’ve used the method to support upper valances and substantial weight.
Darn it @#)$%!&)^ you are ruining the beatifully painted backdrop with all that wood in the way! I would've used a thin 1x2 strip as an I-beam on the wall and then couple of strategically placed threaded rods in the front of the benchwork to hold the upper level surface, just so it does not disturb the backdrop painting. Not everything has to be an L-girder...😁
Honestly, if it wasn't such a pain the @$$ to go to a good hardware store where they had those things readily available I would have thought about it more seriously. The closest big box store to me is 3hrs one way. I love working with wood because I have all the tools needed and it's only a 30 min drive one way! The backdrop was always going to get covered anyway. I think from the seated position with the lights installed it will still be nice to look at. I still have lots of wall left to paint! Thanks for stopping by!
I suppose the saving grace is that the wood is ending up mostly in the sky and you'll paint it to cover it. Going 3 hrs one way for some bits and bobs does sound like a pain. I guess it's a trade-off, more space in the boonies vs access to specialty materials but with less space for hobbies. Either way you seem to be on the right track, so keep at it, and we'll keep watching!
Good to see you are really planning out the benchwork and taking the time to do it right. Too many times people just rush thru the benchwork and end up with problems later. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks John, I'm trying to do things right. Everything seems pretty solid so far.
It’s definitely coming along nicely.
Thanks Richard!
I like the benchwork planning. Something I didn't pay enough attention to. Nice update.
Thanks Larry! I'm getting close, *knocks on wood* I may be finished with the Benchwork for Maroon Creek this weekend.
So wish I was closer to be able to help with the layout. Sometimes, just extra hands. It's good to see the clamps doing some good! You can NEVER have enough clamps. 😉
Yes, they have been a blessing Claude! As well as your friendship!
@@OtterCreek Yours too my friend!
I'd likely look at a simple 2x2 (1.5in sq) for the ledger board with countersunk screws into the studs. As you noted it's not needed too much for strength due to stud attachment so it can be rather short at the wall.
It's qlso kinda wild how plywood bows like that! I had a sheet of 1/2in ply that i ripped down to 16in wide and it ended up similarly. I ended up using it for shelves under the layout.
I used 1X3's for the remaining benchwork and approached it a little differently. No L-Girders, more like a box frame only open at the front. Thanks for watching!
When following Linn Westcott, or landscaping like Dave Frary and their books which I have as well, we have to remember Linn was born in 1913, before the invention of plastic, and plywood. He was building benchwork using 2x4's that were actually 2 inches by 4 inches, that had to support standard gauge engines that weighed pounds not ounces. Of course build it the way you want, let's just remember Lin and Dave come from a bygone era in railroading, and some of the materials they were using don't exist anymore.
Thanks
I’m probably too late if he works through everything this weekend, but there’s nothing to keep you from making that Egger with a vertical part up and sticking above the top of the bench work slightly. So when you look at it from the end, it’s an actual L.
And you could probably use a one by three or even a one by two for the vertical part as long as it’s screwed into the wall at every wall. It should be strong enough. And then it would only stick up about 3/4” above the top of the plywood and that can easily be hidden when you blend the scenery into the backdrop.
And of course, that would keep your painted backdrop, pristine.
Thanks Mike, yeah he got it worked out this weekend. I did lose a little bit of the top of the blue sky but not enough for it to matter, and you will never see it anyway. Thanks for stopping by and the input!
@@OtterCreek yeah just saw the end of the video LOL! Next time I’ll watch the whole thing first.
And glad you used the 1x2 or 3 ply, that’s enough support.
But other couple of thoughts on the face support:
First, the vertical of the L-girder can be extended a bit above the horizontal top to the depth of the plywood, which will allow a greater span. Not a lot but every bit helps.
Second, don’t forget that you’ll have support on the end from the wall perpendicular to the face support, which may eliminate the need for the metal angle supports.
Third, your free span of 6’ can be cut down with a strong cantilever support from the wall. I’ve seen upper decks with 12’ and longer free span on the front with no vertical support but with cantilever supports only from the wall. And these can also be L-girder style and can be VERY strong!
As an engineer I love playing with ideas and concepts of structural design for model RR’s working with my layout and also a friend’s right now and dealing with similar issues.
Use a aluminum angel 1 ½" X 1 ½" with the leg on the wall going up.
I did consider that, but I've already got all of this wood. I'm going to try to do it all with wood and see how it works. So far I'm pleased with the results.
🤠🖐🚂
Thanks for stopping by!
Hi Dennis. Just a couple of comments that I hope will help. First that bad L-girder replace it. It will only get worse over time. It never should have done that when you are using plywood. Second I am concerned that if you have a derailment on the lower section I really do not see how you will be able to reach the back side safely without knocking other things over or pulling your back considering how deep it is. Otherwise keep up the great work. Your careful planning and transitional curves should give you a smooth running layout.
Thanks for thinking about my back Sierge!
I suppose I could have a derailment on the reverse loop in the back corner. I've been operating it for two years now and I haven't had any derailments in any area. (I will now.. thanks Sierge!) 95% of the derailments I've had were on the throat switch, which I replaced and it is easily reached. The other 5% were also associated with turnouts. All of my turnouts were planned to be reached easily. In my experience derailments just don't happen on normal track unless there is an issue with the car/loco. That being said, I try and be very discriminating with the cars I run. If it can't make it through a turnout constantly without derailing it gets pulled and fixed. If I can't fix it, it stays in the lemon lot! Right now I have almost a whole trains worth of cars in the lemon lot!
Just wondering if it would be possible to “hang” the supports from the ceiling using threaded rod and turnbuckles. I’ve used the method to support upper valances and substantial weight.
Thanks Randy. Yes, that's my plan for the valence. I don't want anything obstructing my view of the upper section.
Darn it @#)$%!&)^ you are ruining the beatifully painted backdrop with all that wood in the way! I would've used a thin 1x2 strip as an I-beam on the wall and then couple of strategically placed threaded rods in the front of the benchwork to hold the upper level surface, just so it does not disturb the backdrop painting. Not everything has to be an L-girder...😁
Honestly, if it wasn't such a pain the @$$ to go to a good hardware store where they had those things readily available I would have thought about it more seriously. The closest big box store to me is 3hrs one way. I love working with wood because I have all the tools needed and it's only a 30 min drive one way! The backdrop was always going to get covered anyway. I think from the seated position with the lights installed it will still be nice to look at. I still have lots of wall left to paint! Thanks for stopping by!
I suppose the saving grace is that the wood is ending up mostly in the sky and you'll paint it to cover it. Going 3 hrs one way for some bits and bobs does sound like a pain. I guess it's a trade-off, more space in the boonies vs access to specialty materials but with less space for hobbies. Either way you seem to be on the right track, so keep at it, and we'll keep watching!
That about sums it up. I never have to wait on traffic, no light or noise pollution but a lot of missing conveniences.