Very well done programme. I think that many folks who have known and loved the Shadows for decades could hardly tell the difference in many cases between the two makes of guitar. It is what the overall sound, melody and playing is that makes the Shads so wonderful. Thank you for this expose, great entertainment.
The big, overlooked difference, between the maple board and rosewood board models is that Fender put an aluminium shielding plate under the three ply guards from 59-67, which makes a bigger difference to the sound than any difference in the woods and pickups does.
A excellent synopsis on the guitars of choice of The Shadows. I am a bit surprised though, that you didn't mention the decline in quality of the Burns guitar when the company was sold to The Baldwin Piano and Organ Company of Cincinnati in 1965. Those nasty Baldwin-branded guitars not only looked ugly, their sound quality did not compare favourably to the gorgeous 1964 Burns Marvin. On æsthetics alone, no solid-bodied electric guitar has ever matched the beauty of the Burns Marvin. It's first appearance on the magnificently bluesy 'Rise and Fall of Flingel Bunt' cemented its legend in my mind forever.
Great video, and I might add I'm very familiar with the Shadows tunes, and honestly the difference between the two guitar's is Ever so slight ( listening through earphones) I have difficulty telling the difference, it's there But.... To me, the melody is the important part, & a friend had a Burns H/B and as a Guitar/ Tec.told me the Burns Overall didn't sound as good as a Fender Strat and wasn't as easy to play either, just subtle difference's but they were there, I would have liked to compare it playing myself but had to be somewhere...😊
Very interesting, the Burns Marvin is reckoned to have a deeper tone overall,but there is not much in it! i remember reading the NME article by Hank about the new Burns model being sent back each time before they got it right! don't forget the Searchers where playing Burns before the Shadows, i used to read Beat Instrumental!! Ta.
Interesting!! it's difficult to get accuracy by listening now and digital listening the guitars sound different from valve radio or record player. If they are CD recordings it's a different sound. I had a talk with the man who built the original Vox amps, I can't remember his name now it was many years ago and he said it was the way the amps were built by hand that made each sound unique so the Vox amps after that period would not sound the same. Also I believe Thyme for Young Lovers was recorded on a Strat as I heard Hank play it live end of 1964 with the Burns and the intro sound, those high notes sound, was different sounding on the burns in fact it had the Burns sound over all but I think on the recording the give away is the intro notes they sound like a Strat
When ever I think of The Shadows I think of Burns because I grew up in the 60's and they always had them on Crackerjack (CRACKERJACK!!) or whatever. When I saw them with Stratocasters in the Seventies and saw photographs and films of same from the Fifties I was disappointed because the Burns looked so striking and I've always associated Stratocasters with the most bland music played by miming session players. Family entertainment. I saw The Shadows at Hammersmith on their final tour and from the start beside Mark Griffiths stood a Burns bass, I wondered when it would be used. Marvin changed guitars for each song explaining that the gauge of strings used for early and more recent songs varied. Eventually the road crew brought out the Burns and Hank announced, ''These are Burns guitars''. There was a massive cheer from the knowledgeable audience. And of course they proceeded to play my favourite number by the group: The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt. After that the Burns were taken away and the Fenders returned. I own an Anniversary Edition. Number 0168, I like it's naseley tone and the heavy engineering of the tremolo unit, even though the arm undoes itself all the time. It doesn't see a lot of use but I feel that it would be my choice if surf didn't require me to practise more.
The early Crackerjack recordings of FBI and Frightened City are with Stratocasters and Precision Bass. They are not mimed to the record because there are tone and note differences. The theory is that the Shadows pre recorded them and mimed to those recordings.
@@nigelduckworth406 Yes indeed. You probably are aware that they couldn't just stick on a record. It had to be a difinitive recording to satisfy the Musician Union.
@@chrisst8922 I didn't know that about the Musicians Union Rules. I presume that a few years later when TOTP came along, those rules must have changed.
@@nigelduckworth406 No, certainly not. If there was any miming to be done then it had to be done over a prepared backing track. That's why so many TOTP recordings are unique.
@@chrisst8922 60 years ago nearly, I naively thought that the singer was live and was actually singing over the record. That clearly can't be the case unless the BBC was able to remove the vocals. So you must be correct.
Paul, many thanks for this eye-opener which I had not come across until now, unlike all your other excellent analyses. For what it's worth, Brian Locking told me that Theme for Young Lovers was definitely recorded on the white Strat, whilst one of the earlier ones, Atlantis, was recorded using a Burns. This conversation was 10 years ago, so I assume Licorice's memory was sharper then, but mine has faded since, except for the definite Strat on young lovers. I have spent more than 50 years convinced that this number was a Burns production because I could not reproduce the "ring" on 2nd string D in the first 2 verses with a Strat but could with the Burns. And the damped verse 3 to me has a much flatter tone than is usual with the Strat's sharper harmonics. But I now bow to you and Brian. Of further interest is your suggestion of bridge and neck pickup on Shindig. Since the 5 pole p/u selector was not about then, are you suggesting that Hank's Strat was wired to connect those 2 pickups, because that's what my guitar tech, a man even older than me, told me about 30 years ago. I have tried everything on my 62 Strat but can't get anywhere near the original sound.
Nigel Duckworth..I have only just posted a long story about my Burns Marvin 40th Anniversary re-issue,on another U-Tube Shadows video,where I said my first imression on playing my new Burns,was,that,for the first time ever,I have experienced the exact "Bite",or "Ring",[as you put it],on the first notes of Atlantis,and I rang Barry Gibson,the then Owner of Burns,to ask him if he had any idea if Hank used a Burns ,maybe a Vista-Sonic or similar,but DEFINATELY Burns Tri-Sonic Pick-ups! [I have been playing guitar for 61 years now,and played many a Strat,but never got that Bite,until I got my Burns Marvin,2004 model,also the Apache,and the Black Bison.Apart from having a gorgeous sound,they are all lovely pieces of furniture!Cheers,Bill in Beautiful Northumbria in the UK.
The Gretsch speculation is true, but not on "Apache". This arises because everyone thinks Jet Harris recorded "Diamonds" on a Fender Bass VI (as he had used that instrument on "Besame Mucho" & "The Man With The Golden Arm"), when in fact he recorded it on a Gretsch 6120 detuned from EADGBE to DGCFAD. That's where the 'Gretsch not Fender' thing comes from, and that's from the horse's mouth.
Absolutely fascinating. Very impressive research and work on trying to recreate it.
Thank you for your time and efforts putting together this video. Excellent research, greatly appreciated.
Very well done programme.
I think that many folks who have known and loved the Shadows for decades could hardly tell the difference in many cases between the two makes of guitar.
It is what the overall sound, melody and playing is that makes the Shads so wonderful.
Thank you for this expose, great entertainment.
Has it ever occured to anyone to just ask Hank directly which guitars he used on his studio recordings?
Yes, I would if I lived in the same country, but I wonder does it Really matter 😮😊😊
Because the sound of an electric guitar depends almost entirely on the amplifier settings
Thanks for this video. I know that Hank asked Burns if they could make it a little more Stratic.. Freddie the swede.
The big, overlooked difference, between the maple board and rosewood board models is that Fender put an aluminium shielding plate under the three ply guards from 59-67, which makes a bigger difference to the sound than any difference in the woods and pickups does.
I'll say it again: the Burns Marvin is a strat with balls!
I,ve always thought the Burns Marvins were far superior than the Fender Strats, why they stopped using them heaven knows. Long live The Shadows.
A excellent synopsis on the guitars of choice of The Shadows. I am a bit surprised though, that you didn't mention the decline in quality of the Burns guitar when the company was sold to The Baldwin Piano and Organ Company of Cincinnati in 1965. Those nasty Baldwin-branded guitars not only looked ugly, their sound quality did not compare favourably to the gorgeous 1964 Burns Marvin. On æsthetics alone, no solid-bodied electric guitar has ever matched the beauty of the Burns Marvin. It's first appearance on the magnificently bluesy 'Rise and Fall of Flingel Bunt' cemented its legend in my mind forever.
Great video, and I might add I'm very familiar with the Shadows tunes, and honestly the difference between the two guitar's is Ever so slight ( listening through earphones) I have difficulty telling the difference, it's there But.... To me, the melody is the important part, & a friend had a Burns H/B and as a Guitar/ Tec.told me the Burns Overall didn't sound as good as a Fender Strat and wasn't as easy to play either, just subtle difference's but they were there, I would have liked to compare it playing myself but had to be somewhere...😊
Very interesting, the Burns Marvin is reckoned to have a deeper tone overall,but there is not much in it! i remember reading the NME article by Hank about the new Burns model being sent back each time before they got it right! don't forget the Searchers where playing Burns before the Shadows, i used to read Beat Instrumental!! Ta.
That is true; however, The Searchers were mainly playing the Burns Black Bison model before they got their hands on the Burn Marvin.
Great video..I do think theme for young lovers actually sounded perfect on the burns in that demo.
Jp Ryan..SO DID I..!
Interesting!! it's difficult to get accuracy by listening now and digital listening the guitars sound different from valve radio or record player. If they are CD recordings it's a different sound. I had a talk with the man who built the original Vox amps, I can't remember his name now it was many years ago and he said it was the way the amps were built by hand that made each sound unique so the Vox amps after that period would not sound the same. Also I believe Thyme for Young Lovers was recorded on a Strat as I heard Hank play it live end of 1964 with the Burns and the intro sound, those high notes sound, was different sounding on the burns in fact it had the Burns sound over all but I think on the recording the give away is the intro notes they sound like a Strat
When ever I think of The Shadows I think of Burns because I grew up in the 60's and they always had them on Crackerjack (CRACKERJACK!!) or whatever.
When I saw them with Stratocasters in the Seventies and saw photographs and films of same from the Fifties I was disappointed because the Burns looked so striking and I've always associated Stratocasters with the most bland music played by miming session players. Family entertainment.
I saw The Shadows at Hammersmith on their final tour and from the start beside Mark Griffiths stood a Burns bass, I wondered when it would be used. Marvin changed guitars for each song explaining that the gauge of strings used for early and more recent songs varied. Eventually the road crew brought out the Burns and Hank announced, ''These are Burns guitars''. There was a massive cheer from the knowledgeable audience. And of course they proceeded to play my favourite number by the group: The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt. After that the Burns were taken away and the Fenders returned.
I own an Anniversary Edition. Number 0168, I like it's naseley tone and the heavy engineering of the tremolo unit, even though the arm undoes itself all the time. It doesn't see a lot of use but I feel that it would be my choice if surf didn't require me to practise more.
The early Crackerjack recordings of FBI and Frightened City are with Stratocasters and Precision Bass. They are not mimed to the record because there are tone and note differences. The theory is that the Shadows pre recorded them and mimed to those recordings.
@@nigelduckworth406 Yes indeed. You probably are aware that they couldn't just stick on a record. It had to be a difinitive recording to satisfy the Musician Union.
@@chrisst8922 I didn't know that about the Musicians Union Rules. I presume that a few years later when TOTP came along, those rules must have changed.
@@nigelduckworth406 No, certainly not. If there was any miming to be done then it had to be done over a prepared backing track. That's why so many TOTP recordings are unique.
@@chrisst8922 60 years ago nearly, I naively thought that the singer was live and was actually singing over the record. That clearly can't be the case unless the BBC was able to remove the vocals. So you must be correct.
Paul, many thanks for this eye-opener which I had not come across until now, unlike all your other excellent analyses.
For what it's worth, Brian Locking told me that Theme for Young Lovers was definitely recorded on the white Strat, whilst one of the earlier ones, Atlantis, was recorded using a Burns. This conversation was 10 years ago, so I assume Licorice's memory was sharper then, but mine has faded since, except for the definite Strat on young lovers. I have spent more than 50 years convinced that this number was a Burns production because I could not reproduce the "ring" on 2nd string D in the first 2 verses with a Strat but could with the Burns. And the damped verse 3 to me has a much flatter tone than is usual with the Strat's sharper harmonics. But I now bow to you and Brian.
Of further interest is your suggestion of bridge and neck pickup on Shindig. Since the 5 pole p/u selector was not about then, are you suggesting that Hank's Strat was wired to connect those 2 pickups, because that's what my guitar tech, a man even older than me, told me about 30 years ago. I have tried everything on my 62 Strat but can't get anywhere near the original sound.
Nigel Duckworth..I have only just posted a long story about my Burns Marvin 40th Anniversary re-issue,on another U-Tube Shadows video,where I said my first imression on playing my new Burns,was,that,for the first time ever,I have experienced the exact "Bite",or "Ring",[as you put it],on the first notes of Atlantis,and I rang Barry Gibson,the then Owner of Burns,to ask him if he had any idea if Hank used a Burns ,maybe a Vista-Sonic or similar,but DEFINATELY Burns Tri-Sonic Pick-ups! [I have been playing guitar for 61 years now,and played many a Strat,but never got that Bite,until I got my Burns Marvin,2004 model,also the Apache,and the Black Bison.Apart from having a gorgeous sound,they are all lovely pieces of furniture!Cheers,Bill in Beautiful Northumbria in the UK.
@@highpitwilma Thanks a lot, Bill. Very interesting
The Gretsch speculation is true, but not on "Apache". This arises because everyone thinks Jet Harris recorded "Diamonds" on a Fender Bass VI (as he had used that instrument on "Besame Mucho" & "The Man With The Golden Arm"), when in fact he recorded it on a Gretsch 6120 detuned from EADGBE to DGCFAD. That's where the 'Gretsch not Fender' thing comes from, and that's from the horse's mouth.
Je suis belge et fans des shadows .je préfère la sonorité des guitares burns,bien qu'elle sois quasi ila mémé que celle des fender.
I’m pretty sure a Gretchen was used on Foot tapper …..
hi I would just like to say that I like the Fender Strat better than the Burns
Matter of opinion but there is nothing to match the early recordings which were all done on a Stratocaster. They are quite magical. .
Ive just found a 1963 Burns Split sonic in an attic. Its in translucent red. If anyones seriously interested drop me a message !!
You sold it allready?
@@_-_Michael_-_ its gone mate