This is by far the best traIner road review I have ever seen. It is obvious you put a lot of thought and work into the review. I know this is an older video but just wanted you to know that your contributions to the triathlon community are appreciated!
Heyo, greatly appreciated! They definitely take a lot of time, and I don't know if "the algorithm" loves them, but I'm very happy to hear that the right people find them super useful. Cheers!
I'm also using trainerroad and would like to add two points here: firstly they designed the software so that you can 'bring your own entertainment'. in opposition to zwift you can still watch movies on the same screen for example. i find that much better than the zwift world which on a Z2 ride doesn't really offer any entertainment except for a colorful landscape. secondly I believe it is important to make clear that there are two very different philosophies in training. there is the polarized camp, with their main man stephen seiler, and then there is the threshold camp. trainerroad is clearly in the threshold camp with a lot of sweet spot and threshold training. with this comes a tendency to do a high carb diet and less emphasis on things like fasted rides and low carb diets. in terms of training goals they're also very focused on ftp in opposition to VO2max, Fatmax or VLamax. it still works. but if you're looking for a polarized training plan it's not for you! that said I'm using the software and calender to make my own polarized plan which still comes in handy.
Both are excellent points, thanks for putting them down on paper. I ALMOST talked about the polarized/threshold side of things, but didn't want to get too deep into pros and cons of each (especially given that it's not clear cut overall.) But you're definitely right, they take a specific approach (with necessary or not repercussions, such as the reliance on carbs) and if you're not interested in that philosophy, then there's no alternative. Spot on.
You nailed it adaptive training, and FTP auto detection. I have been on it for two months now and have seen some gains, I do think their coaching text has improved my peddling form and my breath control. Its pretty generic like you say but it’s the reminder to do the work. Thanks for putting this together and how has your training been over the last month
Thanks man! I keep it pretty chill. An accidental byproduct of not having a UA-camr personality, ha. But yeah, I'm so excited about adaptive training. Even if it takes a little bit to dial in, I think it's a great path for them to be on.
You make UA-cam of everything!! This is golden. I just got a favero power pedal and was looking for plan/way. I could be faster cyclist. Thanks for the video.
Re. liking it less over time. I was in this boat and was considering giving it up (despite being on a grandfathered monthly fee) but I decided to have a go at outdoor workouts and once I did it completely changed by perception of TR. If you are feeling bored by the monotony of indoor workouts I cannot recommend enough having a try at the outdoor functionality, it really was a game changer for me
That makes sense! I definitely don't take full advantage of outdoor workouts personally. My riding environment (roads and such) + the weather around me means that TR is very mostly indoors. But for sure, if you could apply structure to your outdoor rides, especially your long weekend ones, that would be a great perk.
Totally agree with your assessment and specifically the triathlon portion. I asked TR around a year ago to just make one minor naming adjustment within their triathlon plans as their swim and running workouts were just listed by intensity and duration. Because of this generic naming scheme, it really hard to know which workouts you are scheduling for which days without creating a "decoder ring." (which btw, I did). They responded back and pretty much told me that my recommendation was too minor of a change to warrant the effort and that they were focused on the cycling part of things. While I still use TR for my cycling workouts, I've since shifted to using an 80/20 plan for my swimming and running for the very reason you mentioned - testing and scalability. Thanks for the great video review!
Yeah, the tri side of things was sort of hard to review for me. Because it depends on what you're comparing against... Compared to a lot of standard "downloadable' plans, I think it's a liiiiiittle better, but honestly not much. Compared to a proper coach, obviously not as good. But then compared to a lot of the kinda crappy coaches that I think are out there, who basically just dole out pre-written, generic plans, TR is better. I'd really like it if they brought in a proper triathlon coach to build those out. I think they're decent, and they're much better than nothing, of course, but they're pretty weak compared to their cycling plans. And then you get into the mechanics like the naming you said, or how TR doesn't import runs/swims and you basically just have to say "I did it," and there's no way to say, "Well actually, I only ran 7 of the 12 miles today," etc. Without writing way too much, this kinda hits on that bit I wrote about companies that come on, do a ton, make a ton of progress, hire a bunch of people, and then... not much changes to the core product. Yes you have a podcast, yes you have tons of YT content, yes you have improved codebase, yes you have more compatible devices, etc etc, but then the users who've been using it for years are basically like... "Okay, so I'm just doing SSB I & II over and over again until I quit biking, or?"
Great video - thank you. Well developed ideas and fair assessment of TR. I love TR but would recommend this video to anyone wanting a overview of the pros and cons. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man! Yeah, overall, I really like it too. It's easy to be critical, but nothing's perfect and, taken on the whole, I think it's the best option for most people.
Man, it is rare to see a UA-cam video with so much research behind it. It must have taken hours of work and i am grateful for that! Really looking forward to hearing your take on ML and sport training, I think it is the next big thing (duh) and there is a space for popularization work on yt i hope you will fill. Anyway that’s an instant subscribe and like for me and i am sharing this video, just commenting to let the youtube algorithm gods be kind to you 😅
Haha, thanks, I appreciate it! UA-cam is a funny thing, because it's easy to get pulled into "Well these channels are really popular, so people must like that, so I should try to be like that or no one will like what I make." And I'm just not a screamy, shouty, level 11 kinda guy. Perfectly fine if you are, but it's just not authentic for me. I personally really like a lot of the deep dives that I watch on topics that I'm personally interested in, so that's somewhat what led my to this evolution of my format a bit. Especailly when you start thinking about making decisions that are affecting your training for the next 6,12,18+ mos, I think it's worth a really thorough exploration. Not for everyone, sure, but happy it helps those it does. :) And yeah! ML is really cool. I’m not an expert on it, but I know enough to speak to it and understand its applications. I’m really looking forward to when it can start tangibly guiding our training, but I’ve got mixed feelings about the application to racing. On one hand, technology / gear is already an advantage that people who can spend more money have over those who can’t. On the other, ‘race craft’ is currently one of the true equalizers in the sport… If you’ve got a machine that can tell you exactly how to get every second possible, is that 100% fair? It’ll be an interesting dilemma for sure.
You Nail it. Zwift and TR are similar in what appears to be their business model, e.g. development, improvements, solid product, market the shit of the product/brand.
Good discussion of the Trainerroad Eco system. I can relate to basically all you said in regard to them being the whole package and it's the "Gesamtkunstwerk" which is really their value proposition. I at least wouldn't still be around if all they had where they in the meanwhile rather stale plans (which I constantly need to adjust and shuffle around anyways). But - that's one of the things: I _can_ do that with relative easy using the web as well as the in app calendar. Moving weeks, Pushing everything as a cohesive block, moving and copying single workouts. Than there is their podcast which since quite a long time exists also as youtube videos, the forum etc. That's nice. Whats also nice is the concept of "Bring you own entertainment". This is huge! I always have their in-workout messages disabled as it just messes with my screens. As such I really wonder why on earth anybody and you would want their other information in the app as you describe? It works perfect the way it is. My recommendation is always: use a computer or laptop directly in front of you. But it would also work really nice in the iOS app on the ipad for example. Any information, forum thread, youtube video of them - you can consume it, research it, comment on it to your hearts content inside your normal web browser in as many windows, screens (yay for mac) or even displays as you like. You can have the app minimized on the lower bottom of the screen if you want to see everything on a glance still (great design, Kudos Trainierroad) or simply have it in the background or on another screen. That's a core concept! You could also watch your or any other youtube channel while doing so. Either consuming info on your training, learn something completely different, just entertain yourself with Netflix or motivate you by looking cycling race videos. Bottom line: Absolutely no need to bring the stuff you mentioned in the app. That would be bad app design and bad user experience.
Thanks for sharing. I totally get where you're coming from. It's undeniable that many, many apps (and things) have been ruined by trying to be all things for all people.
Great analysis. I’ve been using TR for 12 months and think you nailed it. Even though I have experienced significant gains, I don’t know how many more training cycles I can do before getting bored. Maybe just winter months in the future??? Hopefully TR will listen to your recommendations. Cheers
Thanks! I know I've heard them say on the podcast that they see a lot of cyclists fall off during summer months (and consequently lose fitness.) I like just riding my bike far too much to make 100% of my life structured training, but yeah, especially if you've been in it 2, 3, 4 years, I think the monthly fee to run Sweet Spot Base over and over ad nauseum might get a little hard to swallow. I really do think they've got that amazing position of being in a place where they actually can look at years of data and hopefully start finding some insights to proactively apply; that would really give people a reason to stick around.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon I agree. This year was a good year to just enjoy your fitness level on a bicycle. Outdoor workout options do help to stay with the training in the nice weather months (if you live in a place that has bad weather months). Even if it’s winter and the weather gets nice I gladly pull the bike off the trainer and do an outdoor workout. More creative features like that will sustain my interest over the years to come.
I just use zwift tempus fugit, I get on my bike on my Tacx neo, for exactly an hour every other day ( for rest and recovery between) and ride as fast as I possibly can at my threshold, like an ftp time trial and use the challenge of others to push myself even harder, as I do not like being beaten. I am 62 and my ftp is 266. I hardly ever get overtaken and left behind on zwift. Training plans don't recommend this but it works for me, you have to have a certain mentality to push yourself to the limit every other day and enjoy it, which I do. This year I was the third fastest scratch first claim member of my club time trialling in my sixties against all ages.
I am from Zwift, and using TR for last 6 months, I feel TR not just offer a training workout, but a solid plan to build your fitness overtime. The biggest different to me in using TR comparing to Zwift is that I can hold higher power for much longer and I built very good aerobic engine. Zwift also works for me at early days but then I feel that it is not very structure in terms of schedule, planing etc. TR offers a great plan just like you said that it gets you on the bike and get your commitment in the training. If you have a very strong discipline, any app should work, you don't even need a coach, but I believe majority of people do need a bit of assistant and organizing of their training and setting goal etc.
Great video. Personally I use TR in the winter to strengthen myself for the warmer months. I did 2 years of Sweet Spot/Build cycle in winter and came out stronger. This year I’m trying traditional base to change it up. I think if you just do a plan and finish and dive into another plan, you’ll eventually get bored no matter where you do that. Great content!! 👏🏽
Trad base is really appealing to me, let me know how it goes for you! Even on the TR forum, there are a lot of people who report somewhat plateauing on SSB, switching to trad, and finding good gains again. On paper, I'd love trad, I just don't know if I've got the time for it. :/
@@JustinDoesTriathlon I’m doing mid volume base and short power build. Max is 2 hour rides on weekdays, so done work at 5/6 and off the bike by 7/8 latest, still time for life. Gave ya a follow on strava, I’m the Pickle Rick guy.
@@UltimateTuner10 That's awesome! Yeah, definitely let me know how it goes for you, especially since you've had so much SSB, I'm really curious where you land. 2 hours would be.... hard but doable for me, I suppose. PICKLE RICK!
One knock against TR is that their plans contain too much intensity for a given week which results in short term gains but long term stagnation or burnout.
True of my experience. That said, my profile is not in the wheelhouse of TR. I don't compete, but I like to work hard and ride fast; that makes the easy rides even more enjoyable. The ideal TR person is "all in"; they don't do group rides or any other uncontrolled riding for social reasons. So, in the end, I couldn't find a way to blend TR with the outdoor and social aspects of cycling, which is what I enjoy most.
Their Triathlon plan really needs a complete revamp / overhaul. It even asked me to do a 50 min run during taper 1-2 days before an Ironman. The bike portion is great but not to sure when they incorporate swimming and running into the mix or how much thought they have put into this. They do interview a ton of triathletes, but none of the creators have experienced a triathlon nor triathletes themselves. I have been using TR since 2012, hope this improves @TrainerRoad #TrainerRoad.
Agree. There are a lot of tweaks to be made. I think I might make a triathlon deep dive TR video; more and more this discussion of tri plans in TR keeps coming up.
I used TR for some winters and I loved it. I run TR on a Tablet and have UA-cam/TV Series on a second Screen (PC). In the slow parts I watch a Video, and in the fast/hard parts I switch to tecno music. Works really well. But: I would like to see some plans based on polarized training instead of just sweet spot. In running I really enjoy the polarized approach and I would really like to use this in cycling, too.
Yeah that's a good setup. I can do video/tv up through about low tempo, but above that I'm just fully on music. I sometimes run Zwift concurrently, but I don't find Zwift suuuper engaging as much as others do. Agree re: polarized and other plans. I mean heck, even with a tri plan, I'd love seeing variants in running too; a lot of people do really well on polarized run plans. I know TR is big into maximizing time return, but as they mature, I think I'd like to see them expand into other options.
I am going to try a polarized approach on TR after I finish my current plan and compare the results. Oh, I am going to set it up myself since TR does not offer a dedicated polarized plan.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon It has the full Kona course :) Seriously it's the most engaging simulator I've found. Less of an arcade game feel than Zwift or Rouvy. The videos were shot from a bike and you move along the course according to the power you put out.
@@deanb61 Now that's interesting! I've been using TR with Zwift, but I honestly don't *love* zwift, just more 'better than nothing.' I've done a lot of TR by itself and I think I like it about as much as anyone does, but there's only so many hundreds of hours you can stare at a blue graph line. 🙃I'll check FulGaz out when I get a bit👍
Maybe I’m a little late to the discussion but I’m just now getting into indoor/structured training. What I don‘t completely understand is the „narrowed“ view, only using TR or Zwift. Let me explain this: I heard a lot that TR Plans are to high in volume with to much focus on hard Intervall sessions for amateur cyclists or beginners. On the other hand unstructured training doesn’t provide measurable gains for most people. So why not take the best of both worlds to create a „Gesamtkunstwerk (I‘m german had to use this)“?. Choose a low/mid volume training plan on TR and fill the gaps with outdoor endurance and/or social rides. I mean there are enough apps out there which are able to measure and track the TSS on the outdoor rides. Of course this maybe be not the most of exact approach at the beginning, but I think the upside is that you can tweak this approach to your personal needs (e.g. switching the indoor and outdoor days based on time/weather). Would love to hear your and the communities opinion on this since I’m quite new to the sport and only trying to figure things out for myself.
Ha, well I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation too terribly! I was afraid I'd get a German or two to call me out. It's a fantastic word. I think that's a perfectly valid way of doing things. If I was doing that as a beginner, I would definitely do the LV vs the MV. It's generally better to do a plan as prescribed and add, vs miss parts of something. If I were doing that, I'd also try to really keep my additional rides z2/z3. So, fairly comfortable. It's a great way to add in effort without too much physiological toll. And to the point of long outdoor rides in general: I think if I lived somewhere warm and had a bunch of cycling friends and could just go ride outside and get super fit, I'd 100% do a bunch of polarized training.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon Well thanks for the time to answer! It can be extremely motivating to get advice from people that share the same passion, but have more knowledge on the topic :) And don’t worry about the German pronunciation, in compensation I’ll mess up some English words ;)
From a bike racer perspective, I really like TrainerRoad's flexibility and specificity. The plans are SO specific to different events and disciplines, and really easy to change. I wish they had one for e racing....but I may just cobble one together based on the demands of the Echelon Series races.
Agree! I think the Specialty phase of an e-racing plan should include details on how to digitally lower your weight, set up bots for the Millensteins, and when to blame trainer difficulty for getting dropped. 😅🤣 (But really, agree)
@@JustinDoesTriathlon that’s all in the “base training” portion of the e racing plan. In specialty, you learn advanced techniques like finding a left side only Stages meter that reads 20w high, and then pairing that with a slightly mis calibrated smart trainer for shady dual recordings 🤣
My personal experience after using it for a couple of years: I've become noticably faster on non-hill climbs. My hill climb times remain around the same, but I can sustain that "max" effort for longer. I feel they don't have good plans for climbing.
What's your W/Kg number ? I mean you could be stronger but if you don't have a good W/Kg number you would not climb faster that's the magic number for climbing.
Excellent video!! I am a Zwift user and want to make the switch to TrainerRoad with a focus to the winter indoor training season to build endurance and FTP for the beginning of the outdoor riding season. Can you use TrainerRoad during the outdoor season simply to add a couple of indoor rides per week to supplement your outdoor rides? Second, what happens if life gets in the way and you miss one or two workouts? Does TrainerRoad compensate and adjust your plan for missed workouts? Loved your video, you are a very articulate vlogger.
Thanks Bill! Yeah, that is a very good reason to move to TR, I think. Zwift fills a good niche of "just riding" but 'just riding' isn't the best way to get as fit as possible. You have a couple options here: 1) If you want to use TR in conjunction with outdoor riding (that you already do), then TR will implore your TSS (Training Stress Score) automatically from Strava or others if you have a power meter, or you can Estimate training stress from an outdoor ride if you don’t have a PM. This is a good way to track your weekly TSS including outdoor rides. 2) Many of the TR workouts have outdoor equivalents, so TR can push to your Wahoo or Garmin and give either power or RPE-based workout instructions, so you can continue your structured training outdoors! This is pretty cool. Note that due to inherent inefficiencies in outdoor riding, outdoor workout are longer (time) than their indoor counterparts. Re: Does TR compensate if you miss a workout: No, not at all, and this is an area that I’d love to see them improve upon with their data sets. For instance, say your plan has you working out Tues, Wed, Thu, and Saturday. Say you miss your Thu ride; should you do it Friday? Should you do an easier ride Friday? etc. TR doesn’t give a direct answer to that. You always have the macro option to recalculate your plan at a higher level if dates change and such, but no, it basically doesn’t have any on-the-fly fixes. Definitely an area for improvement. And thanks! I would love to put out more videos, but I really try to make sure that each is meaningful. :)
Thank you for the comprehensive response. I am enjoying the workouts and there is no doubt in my mind that it is making a huge difference. Not only am I becoming more fit as a rider, I am becoming more educated about the process through the text information during each workout.
66.9 years old I wonder if TR would admit if they don't know how much recovery is best or if progression training limits are best for such an old foggie. Even ML might not have much historical data for a fossil like myself. I would like to up my speed though. I have a 53 mile route that always takes 3:45 would like to do 66 miles in that time if TR has old foggie science. They ever discuss their oldest subscribers in podcasts?
You're right, it doesn't. Linked at the end of this comment is a thread on the TR forums you should read, if you haven't; it's about people over 60 who are using TR. I've skimmed it for my own curiosity, and it seems to be a lot of people reporting that they're struggling with the intensity. Given that TR typically takes an intensity-focused path to training (as it's more time-effective [for younger athletes, at least]), that could present a challenge. Sorry, I'm not super knowledgeable in that area, but you should definitely give this thread a read: www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/whos-over-60-y-o-and-using-tr/28280
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks. These oldies get value out of TR but they do have to modify the plans themselves to add in recovery or cut volume. Not ideal but can work for some oldies.
Hey I'm not discounting the oldies, you have old man strength. I've been thoroughly put in my place by guys who could barely even get on their bikes, but once they're on! 😅
ecosystem is in Apple or Google - what eco is in TR? one application plus podcast (that btw is superb - at least first 200 episodes that I listened to) IMHO you can be as fit using ZWIFT as using TR - as long as you know what you are doing - actually even simple Wahoo app that comes with Wahoo trainer is completely enough to train - question is only: how you want to train? even in ZWIFT you can build the plan (or better: build using other software then import into ZWIFT) and follow it up fun part of TR? close to ZERO but again: serious athlete does serious workouts and distraction usually is not necessary - some runners will use mp3 others will not - similar with ZWIFT vs TR (poor swimmers: their fun level is even worse) the most important is: we have a choice - and this is superb as we can chose what we want to achieve our targets ;-)
Thanks! So a few other people recommended Xert to me after this vid and I looked into it. Short version, I just found the interface incomprehensible and too much 'work' for my needs. Honestly, this past 6 months, mentally I've just really struggled to focus on the sport in general, so all the 'work' of Xert was just overwhelming. That, and their user interface just completely flabbergasted me. I think if you're the type of person who really wants that level of granularity, things like Xert, Golden Cheetah, or WKO look like really strong contenders. For me, at this point, it's just too deep of a pool for me to get into, ha. Thanks for mentioning it, though! I could see myself getting in at some point.
Great video - you articulate exactly why I favor TR over Zwift. Out of curiosity, I am shopping for a treadmill - will you do a review on the best ones to get?
Hey! Funny story, I don't actually own a treadmill, so I'd have to defer to those with a lot more knowledge. Everything I've found says that (excluding spending like $10k on a Woodway 🤪) the Sole F80 or S77 are where I'd look seriously first.
Hi Justin, thanks for this very detailed review. The comparison with the Zwfit workouts, is that different? I mean, I was doing the building FTP on Zwift, actually I never just ride on Zwfit, I rather do that outside, so, on Zwfit for me was always just the workouts and most of the times on ERG mode. In short, the question is if I do over and over the FTP build on Zwift, would be not the same as TR ? One thing that I dislike about TR is not compatible with Apple TV. thanks again!
Hey there! So the big difference between TR plans and the Zwift training plans is the overall structure. Zwift plans (like the FTP Builder and the Build Me Up plans) are not bad by themselves, but they don't really have the overall view of your training as an athlete. Like, if you want to build your fitness for races, TR is going to give you that ability using Plan Builder to plan out your season including a specialty phase and taper before your race. TR also gives you better flexibility with the volume. For instance, the FTP Builder plan is 5 hours / week, and then the Build Me Up plan is also 5 hours per week. If you have more or less time to train, they don't really account for that. I think I'd put it like this: if your primary goal and reason to be riding indoors is to be getting fitter, then TR is going to optimize that a bit. That said, the Zwift plans, while maybe not 100% as good, are still much much better than not riding at all, or just going on random rides (indoor or outdoor) that don't have much structure to them. So what I'm saying is: Structured workouts of ANY kind are very effective, and then TR plans are more customizable and more holistic than Zwift plans, but it's not monumentally different; they'll both get you fit, TR might get you a little bit fitter. Regarding Apple TV: Are you on an iPhone? You might be able to mirror your screen to the tv! Check this out: support.apple.com/en-us/HT204289
@@ttbittar Drop me a DM on Instagram (justindoestriathlon) and I'll PM you a free month of TR if you want (I don't get anything in return, just have a bunch of referral codes around)
A UA-camr prenzlow 15.5 minutes in says builder doesn't ask your age. At 44 he is concerned, at 66 myself a plan for a 30 year old would have no value.
TrainerRoad podcast always has a saying. "There is a many thing you can do, BUT does it make you faster???" It is this laser like FOCUS that make me love TR. Zwift is like a MMORPG, lots of distractions but not everything you do there make you faster. Not saying Zwift is bad just different focus.
TR makes people feel like they're improving by increasing their fresh 20minute power when really the big determint of performance is fatigue resistance. There really is no substitute for easy riding for long term sustained performance. A lot of people will improve by doing anything especially to begin with but beyond that is a recipe for burnout and/or plateau.
Thanks for this good content! Watched it only yesterday and B O O M... they listened to you and announced Adaptive Training. Sounds impressive. Let‘s see if this will be a big game changer.
Ha! Yeah, that's a super cool announcement, I'm super hyped for it. I'm sure they've been working on it for years though, I take no credit. The real challenge is the implementation. I'm excited to play around with it. Looks very very promising.
i have used zwift nearly 2 years,been using trainerroad and zwift together for 3 weeks so far for the trial,that gets rid of the boredom but doubles the cost.i might use it for a few months over winter to build my ftp and see how much i can improve as i feel i was just cycling with no goal on zwift and outdoor
Agree, it's really... eh. I'm doing the same thing (TR+Zwift.) Zwift alone doesn't really engage me at all (just riding around,) and their training plans are fine but not at the level I'm looking for. TR by itself I've done for quite a long time, and yeah, it gets pretty rough. TV and such is fine for the easier rides, but not the hard ones. Like you said though, doubling the cost is crappy. Good luck this winter!
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks for the great review! will keep it going over the winter to give it a good go and see if i improve much! have a great weekend!
This is by far the best traIner road review I have ever seen. It is obvious you put a lot of thought and work into the review. I know this is an older video but just wanted you to know that your contributions to the triathlon community are appreciated!
Heyo, greatly appreciated! They definitely take a lot of time, and I don't know if "the algorithm" loves them, but I'm very happy to hear that the right people find them super useful. Cheers!
I'm also using trainerroad and would like to add two points here:
firstly they designed the software so that you can 'bring your own entertainment'. in opposition to zwift you can still watch movies on the same screen for example. i find that much better than the zwift world which on a Z2 ride doesn't really offer any entertainment except for a colorful landscape.
secondly I believe it is important to make clear that there are two very different philosophies in training. there is the polarized camp, with their main man stephen seiler, and then there is the threshold camp. trainerroad is clearly in the threshold camp with a lot of sweet spot and threshold training. with this comes a tendency to do a high carb diet and less emphasis on things like fasted rides and low carb diets. in terms of training goals they're also very focused on ftp in opposition to VO2max, Fatmax or VLamax. it still works. but if you're looking for a polarized training plan it's not for you!
that said I'm using the software and calender to make my own polarized plan which still comes in handy.
Both are excellent points, thanks for putting them down on paper. I ALMOST talked about the polarized/threshold side of things, but didn't want to get too deep into pros and cons of each (especially given that it's not clear cut overall.) But you're definitely right, they take a specific approach (with necessary or not repercussions, such as the reliance on carbs) and if you're not interested in that philosophy, then there's no alternative. Spot on.
Very helpful thanks
You nailed it adaptive training, and FTP auto detection. I have been on it for two months now and have seen some gains, I do think their coaching text has improved my peddling form and my breath control. Its pretty generic like you say but it’s the reminder to do the work. Thanks for putting this together and how has your training been over the last month
watched during a 3:45 TR workout. my third year of high volume plans and agree; 1) it works, and 2) some variety year over year would be nice.
Point #10, nailed it! So excited to see this new feature roll out. Just discovered this channel. I really enjoy your analysis and style!
Thanks man! I keep it pretty chill. An accidental byproduct of not having a UA-camr personality, ha. But yeah, I'm so excited about adaptive training. Even if it takes a little bit to dial in, I think it's a great path for them to be on.
You make UA-cam of everything!! This is golden. I just got a favero power pedal and was looking for plan/way. I could be faster cyclist. Thanks for the video.
Haha yeah, I try! Enjoy the Faveros, I really like mine
Re. liking it less over time. I was in this boat and was considering giving it up (despite being on a grandfathered monthly fee) but I decided to have a go at outdoor workouts and once I did it completely changed by perception of TR. If you are feeling bored by the monotony of indoor workouts I cannot recommend enough having a try at the outdoor functionality, it really was a game changer for me
That makes sense! I definitely don't take full advantage of outdoor workouts personally. My riding environment (roads and such) + the weather around me means that TR is very mostly indoors. But for sure, if you could apply structure to your outdoor rides, especially your long weekend ones, that would be a great perk.
Totally agree with your assessment and specifically the triathlon portion. I asked TR around a year ago to just make one minor naming adjustment within their triathlon plans as their swim and running workouts were just listed by intensity and duration. Because of this generic naming scheme, it really hard to know which workouts you are scheduling for which days without creating a "decoder ring." (which btw, I did). They responded back and pretty much told me that my recommendation was too minor of a change to warrant the effort and that they were focused on the cycling part of things. While I still use TR for my cycling workouts, I've since shifted to using an 80/20 plan for my swimming and running for the very reason you mentioned - testing and scalability.
Thanks for the great video review!
Yeah, the tri side of things was sort of hard to review for me. Because it depends on what you're comparing against... Compared to a lot of standard "downloadable' plans, I think it's a liiiiiittle better, but honestly not much. Compared to a proper coach, obviously not as good. But then compared to a lot of the kinda crappy coaches that I think are out there, who basically just dole out pre-written, generic plans, TR is better. I'd really like it if they brought in a proper triathlon coach to build those out. I think they're decent, and they're much better than nothing, of course, but they're pretty weak compared to their cycling plans. And then you get into the mechanics like the naming you said, or how TR doesn't import runs/swims and you basically just have to say "I did it," and there's no way to say, "Well actually, I only ran 7 of the 12 miles today," etc. Without writing way too much, this kinda hits on that bit I wrote about companies that come on, do a ton, make a ton of progress, hire a bunch of people, and then... not much changes to the core product. Yes you have a podcast, yes you have tons of YT content, yes you have improved codebase, yes you have more compatible devices, etc etc, but then the users who've been using it for years are basically like... "Okay, so I'm just doing SSB I & II over and over again until I quit biking, or?"
Handsdown the best review of TR on youtube
Thanks Shay!
Great video - thank you. Well developed ideas and fair assessment of TR. I love TR but would recommend this video to anyone wanting a overview of the pros and cons. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man! Yeah, overall, I really like it too. It's easy to be critical, but nothing's perfect and, taken on the whole, I think it's the best option for most people.
Very comprehensive assessment of TR... 🙌🏽
@Steve King 😎
Haven’t tried multi sport, so I can’t speak to it, but everything else in this video was spot on 👌🏻
Man, it is rare to see a UA-cam video with so much research behind it. It must have taken hours of work and i am grateful for that! Really looking forward to hearing your take on ML and sport training, I think it is the next big thing (duh) and there is a space for popularization work on yt i hope you will fill. Anyway that’s an instant subscribe and like for me and i am sharing this video, just commenting to let the youtube algorithm gods be kind to you 😅
Haha, thanks, I appreciate it! UA-cam is a funny thing, because it's easy to get pulled into "Well these channels are really popular, so people must like that, so I should try to be like that or no one will like what I make." And I'm just not a screamy, shouty, level 11 kinda guy. Perfectly fine if you are, but it's just not authentic for me. I personally really like a lot of the deep dives that I watch on topics that I'm personally interested in, so that's somewhat what led my to this evolution of my format a bit. Especailly when you start thinking about making decisions that are affecting your training for the next 6,12,18+ mos, I think it's worth a really thorough exploration. Not for everyone, sure, but happy it helps those it does. :)
And yeah! ML is really cool. I’m not an expert on it, but I know enough to speak to it and understand its applications. I’m really looking forward to when it can start tangibly guiding our training, but I’ve got mixed feelings about the application to racing. On one hand, technology / gear is already an advantage that people who can spend more money have over those who can’t. On the other, ‘race craft’ is currently one of the true equalizers in the sport… If you’ve got a machine that can tell you exactly how to get every second possible, is that 100% fair? It’ll be an interesting dilemma for sure.
You Nail it. Zwift and TR are similar in what appears to be their business model, e.g. development, improvements, solid product, market the shit of the product/brand.
Keep it up man the videos are so in depth. Very helpful.
Very thorough my friend, have used it and rate it but the monotony is something mentally tough to deal with
For sure. It gets droning... Especially tough when so many of the workouts require such tight mental engagement
Just watched this video... great input and great information. I just started TR and I feel like it's been helping a lot.
Good discussion of the Trainerroad Eco system. I can relate to basically all you said in regard to them being the whole package and it's the "Gesamtkunstwerk" which is really their value proposition. I at least wouldn't still be around if all they had where they in the meanwhile rather stale plans (which I constantly need to adjust and shuffle around anyways). But - that's one of the things: I _can_ do that with relative easy using the web as well as the in app calendar. Moving weeks, Pushing everything as a cohesive block, moving and copying single workouts. Than there is their podcast which since quite a long time exists also as youtube videos, the forum etc. That's nice.
Whats also nice is the concept of "Bring you own entertainment". This is huge! I always have their in-workout messages disabled as it just messes with my screens. As such I really wonder why on earth anybody and you would want their other information in the app as you describe? It works perfect the way it is. My recommendation is always: use a computer or laptop directly in front of you. But it would also work really nice in the iOS app on the ipad for example.
Any information, forum thread, youtube video of them - you can consume it, research it, comment on it to your hearts content inside your normal web browser in as many windows, screens (yay for mac) or even displays as you like. You can have the app minimized on the lower bottom of the screen if you want to see everything on a glance still (great design, Kudos Trainierroad) or simply have it in the background or on another screen.
That's a core concept! You could also watch your or any other youtube channel while doing so. Either consuming info on your training, learn something completely different, just entertain yourself with Netflix or motivate you by looking cycling race videos.
Bottom line: Absolutely no need to bring the stuff you mentioned in the app. That would be bad app design and bad user experience.
Thanks for sharing. I totally get where you're coming from. It's undeniable that many, many apps (and things) have been ruined by trying to be all things for all people.
Great analysis. I’ve been using TR for 12 months and think you nailed it. Even though I have experienced significant gains, I don’t know how many more training cycles I can do before getting bored. Maybe just winter months in the future??? Hopefully TR will listen to your recommendations. Cheers
Thanks! I know I've heard them say on the podcast that they see a lot of cyclists fall off during summer months (and consequently lose fitness.) I like just riding my bike far too much to make 100% of my life structured training, but yeah, especially if you've been in it 2, 3, 4 years, I think the monthly fee to run Sweet Spot Base over and over ad nauseum might get a little hard to swallow. I really do think they've got that amazing position of being in a place where they actually can look at years of data and hopefully start finding some insights to proactively apply; that would really give people a reason to stick around.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon I agree. This year was a good year to just enjoy your fitness level on a bicycle. Outdoor workout options do help to stay with the training in the nice weather months (if you live in a place that has bad weather months). Even if it’s winter and the weather gets nice I gladly pull the bike off the trainer and do an outdoor workout. More creative features like that will sustain my interest over the years to come.
I just use zwift tempus fugit, I get on my bike on my Tacx neo, for exactly an hour every other day ( for rest and recovery between) and ride as fast as I possibly can at my threshold, like an ftp time trial and use the challenge of others to push myself even harder, as I do not like being beaten. I am 62 and my ftp is 266.
I hardly ever get overtaken and left behind on zwift. Training plans don't recommend this but it works for me, you have to have a certain mentality to push yourself to the limit every other day and enjoy it, which I do. This year I was the third fastest scratch first claim member of my club time trialling in my sixties against all ages.
If it works, it works! There's no "one right way" to train, and it seems like the people who think there is also happen to be selling it.
Great review, helps me a lot. I’m gonna try TR for a several weeks and let’s see what is made, and what I have
Let us know what you think!
Great review. Thank you!
I am from Zwift, and using TR for last 6 months, I feel TR not just offer a training workout, but a solid plan to build your fitness overtime. The biggest different to me in using TR comparing to Zwift is that I can hold higher power for much longer and I built very good aerobic engine. Zwift also works for me at early days but then I feel that it is not very structure in terms of schedule, planing etc. TR offers a great plan just like you said that it gets you on the bike and get your commitment in the training. If you have a very strong discipline, any app should work, you don't even need a coach, but I believe majority of people do need a bit of assistant and organizing of their training and setting goal etc.
Spot on!
Great video. Personally I use TR in the winter to strengthen myself for the warmer months. I did 2 years of Sweet Spot/Build cycle in winter and came out stronger. This year I’m trying traditional base to change it up. I think if you just do a plan and finish and dive into another plan, you’ll eventually get bored no matter where you do that.
Great content!! 👏🏽
Trad base is really appealing to me, let me know how it goes for you! Even on the TR forum, there are a lot of people who report somewhat plateauing on SSB, switching to trad, and finding good gains again. On paper, I'd love trad, I just don't know if I've got the time for it. :/
@@JustinDoesTriathlon I’m doing mid volume base and short power build. Max is 2 hour rides on weekdays, so done work at 5/6 and off the bike by 7/8 latest, still time for life.
Gave ya a follow on strava, I’m the Pickle Rick guy.
@@UltimateTuner10 That's awesome! Yeah, definitely let me know how it goes for you, especially since you've had so much SSB, I'm really curious where you land. 2 hours would be.... hard but doable for me, I suppose. PICKLE RICK!
Very well thought out !!!!
Thanks man! I really put a lot into that one ha
One knock against TR is that their plans contain too much intensity for a given week which results in short term gains but long term stagnation or burnout.
True of my experience. That said, my profile is not in the wheelhouse of TR. I don't compete, but I like to work hard and ride fast; that makes the easy rides even more enjoyable. The ideal TR person is "all in"; they don't do group rides or any other uncontrolled riding for social reasons. So, in the end, I couldn't find a way to blend TR with the outdoor and social aspects of cycling, which is what I enjoy most.
Their Triathlon plan really needs a complete revamp / overhaul. It even asked me to do a 50 min run during taper 1-2 days before an Ironman. The bike portion is great but not to sure when they incorporate swimming and running into the mix or how much thought they have put into this. They do interview a ton of triathletes, but none of the creators have experienced a triathlon nor triathletes themselves. I have been using TR since 2012, hope this improves @TrainerRoad #TrainerRoad.
Agree. There are a lot of tweaks to be made. I think I might make a triathlon deep dive TR video; more and more this discussion of tri plans in TR keeps coming up.
I used TR for some winters and I loved it. I run TR on a Tablet and have UA-cam/TV Series on a second Screen (PC). In the slow parts I watch a Video, and in the fast/hard parts I switch to tecno music. Works really well.
But: I would like to see some plans based on polarized training instead of just sweet spot. In running I really enjoy the polarized approach and I would really like to use this in cycling, too.
Yeah that's a good setup. I can do video/tv up through about low tempo, but above that I'm just fully on music. I sometimes run Zwift concurrently, but I don't find Zwift suuuper engaging as much as others do.
Agree re: polarized and other plans. I mean heck, even with a tri plan, I'd love seeing variants in running too; a lot of people do really well on polarized run plans. I know TR is big into maximizing time return, but as they mature, I think I'd like to see them expand into other options.
I am going to try a polarized approach on TR after I finish my current plan and compare the results. Oh, I am going to set it up myself since TR does not offer a dedicated polarized plan.
I use TR and FulGaz with my wattbike. TR for training for triathlons and sportives, and FulGaz mostly to see how the training is working and fun.
I've never used FulGaz; maybe I should give it a try
@@JustinDoesTriathlon It has the full Kona course :) Seriously it's the most engaging simulator I've found. Less of an arcade game feel than Zwift or Rouvy. The videos were shot from a bike and you move along the course according to the power you put out.
@@deanb61 Now that's interesting! I've been using TR with Zwift, but I honestly don't *love* zwift, just more 'better than nothing.' I've done a lot of TR by itself and I think I like it about as much as anyone does, but there's only so many hundreds of hours you can stare at a blue graph line. 🙃I'll check FulGaz out when I get a bit👍
Maybe I’m a little late to the discussion but I’m just now getting into indoor/structured training. What I don‘t completely understand is the „narrowed“ view, only using TR or Zwift. Let me explain this:
I heard a lot that TR Plans are to high in volume with to much focus on hard Intervall sessions for amateur cyclists or beginners. On the other hand unstructured training doesn’t provide measurable gains for most people. So why not take the best of both worlds to create a „Gesamtkunstwerk (I‘m german had to use this)“?. Choose a low/mid volume training plan on TR and fill the gaps with outdoor endurance and/or social rides. I mean there are enough apps out there which are able to measure and track the TSS on the outdoor rides. Of course this maybe be not the most of exact approach at the beginning, but I think the upside is that you can tweak this approach to your personal needs (e.g. switching the indoor and outdoor days based on time/weather).
Would love to hear your and the communities opinion on this since I’m quite new to the sport and only trying to figure things out for myself.
Ha, well I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation too terribly! I was afraid I'd get a German or two to call me out. It's a fantastic word. I think that's a perfectly valid way of doing things. If I was doing that as a beginner, I would definitely do the LV vs the MV. It's generally better to do a plan as prescribed and add, vs miss parts of something. If I were doing that, I'd also try to really keep my additional rides z2/z3. So, fairly comfortable. It's a great way to add in effort without too much physiological toll. And to the point of long outdoor rides in general: I think if I lived somewhere warm and had a bunch of cycling friends and could just go ride outside and get super fit, I'd 100% do a bunch of polarized training.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon Well thanks for the time to answer! It can be extremely motivating to get advice from people that share the same passion, but have more knowledge on the topic :) And don’t worry about the German pronunciation, in compensation I’ll mess up some English words ;)
From a bike racer perspective, I really like TrainerRoad's flexibility and specificity. The plans are SO specific to different events and disciplines, and really easy to change. I wish they had one for e racing....but I may just cobble one together based on the demands of the Echelon Series races.
Agree! I think the Specialty phase of an e-racing plan should include details on how to digitally lower your weight, set up bots for the Millensteins, and when to blame trainer difficulty for getting dropped. 😅🤣 (But really, agree)
@@JustinDoesTriathlon that’s all in the “base training” portion of the e racing plan. In specialty, you learn advanced techniques like finding a left side only Stages meter that reads 20w high, and then pairing that with a slightly mis calibrated smart trainer for shady dual recordings 🤣
"Well, I WOULD have a 5.5wkg ftp if only I had more time to train, so it's not reallllllllly my fault anyway
I think you get a lot of those in the Podcast.
My personal experience after using it for a couple of years: I've become noticably faster on non-hill climbs. My hill climb times remain around the same, but I can sustain that "max" effort for longer. I feel they don't have good plans for climbing.
What's your W/Kg number ? I mean you could be stronger but if you don't have a good W/Kg number you would not climb faster that's the magic number for climbing.
Great info, thanks
i love TR when they had sufferfest videos for tour de sufferlandria have not used it in a few years now but want to go back
I didn't know about that! That would be fun.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon before sufferfest had it on app
@@bonn1771 Oh gotcha! Yeah, that would be great... More to look at than a blue line
Excellent video!! I am a Zwift user and want to make the switch to TrainerRoad with a focus to the winter indoor training season to build endurance and FTP for the beginning of the outdoor riding season. Can you use TrainerRoad during the outdoor season simply to add a couple of indoor rides per week to supplement your outdoor rides? Second, what happens if life gets in the way and you miss one or two workouts? Does TrainerRoad compensate and adjust your plan for missed workouts? Loved your video, you are a very articulate vlogger.
Thanks Bill! Yeah, that is a very good reason to move to TR, I think. Zwift fills a good niche of "just riding" but 'just riding' isn't the best way to get as fit as possible. You have a couple options here:
1) If you want to use TR in conjunction with outdoor riding (that you already do), then TR will implore your TSS (Training Stress Score) automatically from Strava or others if you have a power meter, or you can Estimate training stress from an outdoor ride if you don’t have a PM. This is a good way to track your weekly TSS including outdoor rides.
2) Many of the TR workouts have outdoor equivalents, so TR can push to your Wahoo or Garmin and give either power or RPE-based workout instructions, so you can continue your structured training outdoors! This is pretty cool. Note that due to inherent inefficiencies in outdoor riding, outdoor workout are longer (time) than their indoor counterparts.
Re: Does TR compensate if you miss a workout: No, not at all, and this is an area that I’d love to see them improve upon with their data sets. For instance, say your plan has you working out Tues, Wed, Thu, and Saturday. Say you miss your Thu ride; should you do it Friday? Should you do an easier ride Friday? etc. TR doesn’t give a direct answer to that. You always have the macro option to recalculate your plan at a higher level if dates change and such, but no, it basically doesn’t have any on-the-fly fixes. Definitely an area for improvement.
And thanks! I would love to put out more videos, but I really try to make sure that each is meaningful. :)
Thank you for the comprehensive response. I am enjoying the workouts and there is no doubt in my mind that it is making a huge difference. Not only am I becoming more fit as a rider, I am becoming more educated about the process through the text information during each workout.
66.9 years old I wonder if TR would admit if they don't know how much recovery is best or if progression training limits are best for such an old foggie. Even ML might not have much historical data for a fossil like myself. I would like to up my speed though. I have a 53 mile route that always takes 3:45 would like to do 66 miles in that time if TR has old foggie science. They ever discuss their oldest subscribers in podcasts?
You're right, it doesn't. Linked at the end of this comment is a thread on the TR forums you should read, if you haven't; it's about people over 60 who are using TR. I've skimmed it for my own curiosity, and it seems to be a lot of people reporting that they're struggling with the intensity. Given that TR typically takes an intensity-focused path to training (as it's more time-effective [for younger athletes, at least]), that could present a challenge. Sorry, I'm not super knowledgeable in that area, but you should definitely give this thread a read: www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/whos-over-60-y-o-and-using-tr/28280
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks. These oldies get value out of TR but they do have to modify the plans themselves to add in recovery or cut volume. Not ideal but can work for some oldies.
Hey I'm not discounting the oldies, you have old man strength. I've been thoroughly put in my place by guys who could barely even get on their bikes, but once they're on! 😅
ecosystem is in Apple or Google - what eco is in TR? one application plus podcast (that btw is superb - at least first 200 episodes that I listened to)
IMHO you can be as fit using ZWIFT as using TR - as long as you know what you are doing - actually even simple Wahoo app that comes with Wahoo trainer is completely enough to train - question is only: how you want to train?
even in ZWIFT you can build the plan (or better: build using other software then import into ZWIFT) and follow it up
fun part of TR? close to ZERO but again: serious athlete does serious workouts and distraction usually is not necessary - some runners will use mp3 others will not - similar with ZWIFT vs TR (poor swimmers: their fun level is even worse)
the most important is: we have a choice - and this is superb as we can chose what we want to achieve our targets ;-)
Great practical information 👏. Have you considered Xert?. I bet you will like it.
Thanks! So a few other people recommended Xert to me after this vid and I looked into it. Short version, I just found the interface incomprehensible and too much 'work' for my needs. Honestly, this past 6 months, mentally I've just really struggled to focus on the sport in general, so all the 'work' of Xert was just overwhelming. That, and their user interface just completely flabbergasted me. I think if you're the type of person who really wants that level of granularity, things like Xert, Golden Cheetah, or WKO look like really strong contenders. For me, at this point, it's just too deep of a pool for me to get into, ha. Thanks for mentioning it, though! I could see myself getting in at some point.
@@JustinDoesTriathlon the effort is worthwhile. Xert teaches you how to train. Most of the other platforms just tell you what to train 😉
@@josemanuelvalverde9342 Very true. I probably owe it a second look. We'll call that a winter project.
Great video - you articulate exactly why I favor TR over Zwift. Out of curiosity, I am shopping for a treadmill - will you do a review on the best ones to get?
Hey! Funny story, I don't actually own a treadmill, so I'd have to defer to those with a lot more knowledge. Everything I've found says that (excluding spending like $10k on a Woodway 🤪) the Sole F80 or S77 are where I'd look seriously first.
Hi Justin, thanks for this very detailed review. The comparison with the Zwfit workouts, is that different? I mean, I was doing the building FTP on Zwift, actually I never just ride on Zwfit, I rather do that outside, so, on Zwfit for me was always just the workouts and most of the times on ERG mode.
In short, the question is if I do over and over the FTP build on Zwift, would be not the same as TR ? One thing that I dislike about TR is not compatible with Apple TV. thanks again!
Hey there! So the big difference between TR plans and the Zwift training plans is the overall structure. Zwift plans (like the FTP Builder and the Build Me Up plans) are not bad by themselves, but they don't really have the overall view of your training as an athlete. Like, if you want to build your fitness for races, TR is going to give you that ability using Plan Builder to plan out your season including a specialty phase and taper before your race. TR also gives you better flexibility with the volume. For instance, the FTP Builder plan is 5 hours / week, and then the Build Me Up plan is also 5 hours per week. If you have more or less time to train, they don't really account for that. I think I'd put it like this: if your primary goal and reason to be riding indoors is to be getting fitter, then TR is going to optimize that a bit. That said, the Zwift plans, while maybe not 100% as good, are still much much better than not riding at all, or just going on random rides (indoor or outdoor) that don't have much structure to them. So what I'm saying is: Structured workouts of ANY kind are very effective, and then TR plans are more customizable and more holistic than Zwift plans, but it's not monumentally different; they'll both get you fit, TR might get you a little bit fitter. Regarding Apple TV: Are you on an iPhone? You might be able to mirror your screen to the tv! Check this out: support.apple.com/en-us/HT204289
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thank you so much! I will give it a try
@@ttbittar Drop me a DM on Instagram (justindoestriathlon) and I'll PM you a free month of TR if you want (I don't get anything in return, just have a bunch of referral codes around)
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks again!
Sub’d. Newest favorite 🚴channel
Thanks! I try :)
A UA-camr prenzlow 15.5 minutes in says builder doesn't ask your age. At 44 he is concerned, at 66 myself a plan for a 30 year old would have no value.
How about Sufferfest?
Have friends who like it, but Iv'e never used it.
TrainerRoad podcast always has a saying. "There is a many thing you can do, BUT does it make you faster???"
It is this laser like FOCUS that make me love TR. Zwift is like a MMORPG, lots of distractions but not everything you do there make you faster. Not saying Zwift is bad just different focus.
TR makes people feel like they're improving by increasing their fresh 20minute power when really the big determint of performance is fatigue resistance. There really is no substitute for easy riding for long term sustained performance. A lot of people will improve by doing anything especially to begin with but beyond that is a recipe for burnout and/or plateau.
Xert already does what you claim TR is *going* to do? For HALF the price.
Xert is popping up in a bunch of my comments lately... I'll have to take a look.
Without an inclusive swim and run effective evaluation...TR is just one of many bike training apps and not a Triathlon training aide.
Mmhm. I think for triathlon it falls into 'a lot better than nothing,' but they're not excellent. I do a lot of modifying.
Thanks for this good content! Watched it only yesterday and B O O M... they listened to you and announced Adaptive Training. Sounds impressive. Let‘s see if this will be a big game changer.
Ha! Yeah, that's a super cool announcement, I'm super hyped for it. I'm sure they've been working on it for years though, I take no credit. The real challenge is the implementation. I'm excited to play around with it. Looks very very promising.
Making new users pay for existing users is like making people with health insurance pay for people without insurance.
There plans are all basically the same
i have used zwift nearly 2 years,been using trainerroad and zwift together for 3 weeks so far for the trial,that gets rid of the boredom but doubles the cost.i might use it for a few months over winter to build my ftp and see how much i can improve as i feel i was just cycling with no goal on zwift and outdoor
Agree, it's really... eh. I'm doing the same thing (TR+Zwift.) Zwift alone doesn't really engage me at all (just riding around,) and their training plans are fine but not at the level I'm looking for. TR by itself I've done for quite a long time, and yeah, it gets pretty rough. TV and such is fine for the easier rides, but not the hard ones. Like you said though, doubling the cost is crappy. Good luck this winter!
@@JustinDoesTriathlon thanks for the great review! will keep it going over the winter to give it a good go and see if i improve much! have a great weekend!
@@jscycles1 You too!