I have one that comes to mind specifically... I hit a par 5 in regulation, and then put a putt ever so slightly past the hole and it rolled into a bunker. Wish I'd known that rule.
Very helpful. I was aware of most of the rulings but the final one was completely new to me! I wish I knew it four years ago - I was on a green on a par 4 in two, putted from about 40 feet and went through the green and off and into the lake! I eventually took 10 to hole the ball.
Good stuff. At about 12.52 where you talk about out and back links courses, I think it may be worth clarifying that in the case of shared greens (like many on the Old course at St Andrews) you are not on a wrong green and play the ball as it lies. Also in the last point, where you talk about the stroke and distance option on the green, it may have been worth mentioning that this predicated on you, as the player, having sole discretion to declare your ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course.
The shared greens they're talking about have a strip of fringe separating the two individual green surfaces. If they were connected and the surface was the same from green to green, then they'd truly be considered "shared" greens and you'd be able to putt from the other one.
if I'm looking for my ball and me being a very heavy man step on it and it sinks into the ground but doesn't otherwise move what do you do? I just moved it back on line into more rough and played on but we got the whole club house debating after over beers. lol
on the cart path problem you are certainly right that the nearest point of complete relief is where you drop it, but remember, you have one club length of relief area, no nearer the hole, from that point, meaning you could have dropped it a bit further back and found yourself in the slightly shorter grass. As long as the cart path does not interfere with your stance or stroke where your ball comes to rest, you have still dropped correctly in this given situation.
@@jplucky5783 that section was about determining NEAREST Point of Complete Relief, the one club length only determines the Relief Area the Ball must remain in after being dropped.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 I understand that. That was my point. They correctly stated the process for determining nearest point of relief, but then he demonstrated by dropping the ball on that exact spot (into tall grass), when there was clearly a better option within one club length.
For #1, it would have been a good idea to explain what the hell "take a stroke and distance" means. Or demonstrate the option. Or something. This is actually generally true of several of the statements made, should elaborate rather than using additional terms of art that a more casual audience wouldn't understand.
Looking at the rules (16.1b), after establishing where your nearest point of complete relief is from an immovable object, when dropping your ball you then do this within 1 club length of the NPOR, not nearer the hole which you didn't mention in the video?
The one Club Length establishes the Relief Area the Ball must stay in to remain in play after the Drop. The explanation was on how to determine the NEAREST Point of Complete Relief, which is where the mistake is generally made.
You have the option of Standing on the Path as a "Play it as it lies". IF you want Relief then both You and the Ball must be completely OFF the Path before you play your next Stroke.
You are correct in that he didn't show the full drop proceedure, however the point they were making is that the nearest point of relief from where the Ball lay was in the long grass.
I was going to ask the same question. I took relief from a path in a comp last year. Nearest point of relief and then within 1 club length no nearer the hole. The old boys in the group behind challenged me as they saw me drop and a debate followed. I knew I was right but they were insistent I wasn’t. My playing partners then sat on the fence so I played 2 balls to cover each scenario and got a par with both. Took great pleasure in watching the club pro and comps secretary explain the rule to them and pointing out I was correct. Any apology……..of course not
So how about explaining the correct way & why to help all of us? I have tried originally to pull away from the mark, which makes a really nice flat repair. I have read to not damage the roots to pull in around the divot. When I do that I notice the inside of the hole made is still left with a visible hole. I vote for the repair that makes the surface as best back to normal looking for the next golfers.
Admittedly, I am confused. He said you are allowed to take stroke and distance on the green as you are any where on the course. What? Can you arbitrarily decide to take stroke and distance any time that it suits you? I thought it was required to take S&D if you lost the ball, but is he saying you can do this at any point you hit a wayward shot? Even on the green? This doesn’t make sense to me. Did I miss something?
This is so much fun, but I would really appreciate you giving the number of the rule you’re illustrating. I’m busy trying to memorize all the rules by number so every number is important- as it should be to everyone. Thanks!
On No.6, when I did basic rules school, they emphasised that the call of "virtual certainty" was yours to make. Your playing partner can disagree but ultimately you call it.
I had a scenario at a golf meet: one of the golfers hit a ball into the crook of a tree about 3 feet off of the ground. She was able to identify the ball, but obviously could not hit the ball. She was told that she had to go back to where she hit the ball and rehit with stroke and distance. Was this correct or could she have gotten free relief? Thanks in advance and great videos!!!
She couldn't get free relief, no. Stroke & Distance is always an option but she would have been better off declaring it "Unplayable" and then, because she knew it was her ball, probably using the 2 club length relief area from the spot directly under where the ball was lodged, to drop for 1 PS. She could have taken Back of the LIne relief (a line back along a line from the spot of the ball directly to the flag) or as said earlier, S&D, both for 1 PS.
I'm thinking of coming back to golf after 6 or so years away from the game, I'd heard there had been rule changes/simplifications which was a good positive step, but there's still a long way to go - that last rule seems bonkers!
One thing omitted on the teeing area discussion. What happens with a full, intentional swing that turns into an 'airshot' (been there, done it!) and causes the ball to dislodge from the teepeg? This counts as Stroke 1, with Stroke 2 being played from the tee grass, or wherever it ended up from the peg?
Suggestion for another video: Neil and Jezz cover rules that have significantly changed over the last 50 (?) years that have different penalties/results, etc. Some of the current videos touch on rules that have changed, but if a video(s) could cover before and now. Example: Loose Impediments in Sand trap used to not be allowed to be touched. Now you can move them. So, cover what used to happen along with the penalty, and what is allowed now. Another example would be - I believe it used to be that you had to strike the ball with the 'striking' face of the club, and I believe it used to also be you couldn't hit the ball with the back of a putter unless the front and back were the same, however I've seen golfers in the last last 10 years hitting it with the back and even the toe (Vijay Singh) into the cup without being penalized. I've enjoyed studying the rules for more than 50 years, but now I can't rely on my memory to cite rules and penalties as they change. Videos specifically on CHANGED rules would be helpful.
Pertaining to no. 6 ruling, I noticed that the red penalty was marked very close to the water. In regards to why the new rules were written to help save strikes and time, I would mark the penalty area next to the fairway, because it would save time, because you would probably be virtually certain that the ball would in the PA.
I found the last rules interesting. "Stroke and Distance"! Is that available on ANY shot? For example an approach that goes a overshot and ends up in a position where I would find it difficult to get into a useful position.
With regards to your 'repairing a pitch mark' scenario, what is the rule about being off the green but brushing loose impediments off the green on the line of your shot? I was told this was not allowed but I'm unsure if this is true.
You can attend to the Green at anytime regardless of the Position of the Ball. Just remember Sand and Dirt AREN'T Loose Impediments OFF the Green, so this you can't touch.
Played a course one time where a tiered green was so fast and sloped, I tapped my putt from the top fringe and once it hit the edge of the tier it rolled the 30 yards across the green, off the green and then crossed the cart path and another 16 yards to the pond bank then down into the water. I don't play that course anymore.
For nearest point of relief from the path, I thought you had to mark your spot, then use a one-club relief arc to drop the ball. Since he most likely dropped in what would have been that relief arc, is it OK to skip those prior steps?
Yah they were unclear and the rules themselves on this are a little wordy. basically he is "certain or virtually certain" the ball was not in the penalty area (water) so he must take stroke and distance relief instead of taking the other relief options available when you hit a penalty area.
Yes, It is free relief though. You do get one club length no nearer the hole from the point of full relief. From that point all your nornal options appy as if your ball had gone straight in the bush from your previous shot.
Question for #5, relief from the cart path. What if the long grass to the side of the path was marked as hazard, with the hazard line drawn about a foot off the cart path? Would you be required to drop in the small strip before the hazard and then stand in the hazard?
Yes, as long as you had complete relief from the cart path then you drop it within 1 club length but only in that strip; you cant drop it in the Penalty Area (not Hazard, that term doesn't exist any more). It wouldn't matter if you were then standing in the Penalty area to play your next stroke as long as the ball is in the correct relief area.
Playing from wrong green ... you are saying you can't putt from the wrong green on a double green ? If so, how do you know where the boundary of each green is ?
They were talking about two separate Greens in close proximity to each other. This is Not a shared Green for 2 holes such as St. Andrews is famous for. If your Green is a Shared Green the entire Green is still considered "your Green".
Stroke and distance so if your putt goes further away than off the green u can take it again but add 2 shots is that right? Ihave couple questions and im sure tou gius havent covered believe it or not one is repairing big ditch mark on greens when really wet where do u replace ball if impression is still lower than green surface on top or to the side as i hit shot that did this on downhill par 3 then replaced vall on top but jumped off line for birdie putt and got par even though it was 8inches away from hole gutted. Also if a played ball lands on another fairway and says he's trying to get back on correct hole but proceeds to hit bad shot on wrong hole but is cutting a corner so is a shorter distance clearly thats not allowed? Thanks guys always a pleasure to watch.
If you mean repairing a big divot your ball made on the green, you make your best effort to repair the divot and play your shot from the exact spot. Yes you can play the shortcut across another fairway because its all within the general area, unless there is a local rule which would be written on the score card. The other guy already answered, but ill clarify the stroke and distance, you count the original shot, one penalty for replacing the ball and then your next shot, so its one penalty stroke and any actual stroke you make with a ball in play.
3:18-5:21 - So, if you're not virtually certain it went into the penalty area, and you can't find it, is it officially a lost ball, and re-hit taking stroke and distance?
I didn't know that last one. Or, at least, I never thought about using it in that manner. But I'm still confused a bit. Does the ball have to be unplayable? or can you just declare it unplayable, even if it's not?
@@markmccombes7874 you can declare a Ball Unplayable anywhere on the Course, except for Penalty Areas. As for Penalty Areas, Stroke and Distance is a Relief Option for both RED and YELLOW.
Stroke and Distance Penalty Relief is always an option for Penalty Areas under Rule 17 S and D Penalty Relief is one of the 3 Options for Unplayable Ball under Rule 19
Wait. Please clarify. Based on the last one covered, you’re saying if I merely don’t like the result of any shot, I can drop and hit again from that same spot with just adding one stroke? That portion of the video started on the putting green but it was later said that can be from “anywhere on the course”. Can you tell me where I can cite that in the rules book?
Yes, rule 18.1: At any time a player may take stroke-and-distance relief by adding one penalty stroke and playing the ball or another ball from where the previous stroke was made. which links to rule 14.6 on how to do it correctly.
@@pxblade Follow Up: I believe if one hits a bad shot off the tee and it's still in the tee box, they can re-tee it, as their next stroke (2). However, if it goes outside the tee box, I can re-hit from where the previous stroke was made, taking stroke and distance. My question is, can I re-tee it?
@@BKMadeInUSA hey there, yes you can re-tee it as part of stroke and distance if your last shot was from the tee box. The saying is "three off the tee" when this happens and hopefully you don't need to apply it one more time for five off the tee lol. If you apply stroke and distance on any other stroke in the general play area, you use the official drop rules for relief. On the green you can replace the ball exactly or as close to where your putt was originally taken.
Question on number six, the deep rough near the water... Can you take an unplayable and go back along the line without going back to the original point? Or is it different because it's a lost ball? FWIW, I've almost never seen it played "properly" in the sense of going back to the original point of the shot. Then again, purely for pace of play even in a casual league I would go with "it must've rolled in"
question for your complete relief from the cart path. take the exact situation you have in the video but make the golfer left handed. they get relief to the point where their feet are completely off the path the. to where the end of the club would be. in this case the other side of the path may be the closer point. Am I correct in this?
With the cart path relief, it is closest point of relief no nearer the hole. I think the point that you took relief, according to where you were pointing out the green was, was nearer the hole and that you should have taken it further toward the camera, still in the long grass.
Just to clarify what defines the nearest point of relief and does that include your stance. I you drop but can't take your stance because say of a hedge so you cant play forward and playing back involves standing on the path is that then not the nearest point of relief or just the "rub of the green"
"Nearest," not "nicest." The rule only permits you relief from a very specific condition - the immovable obstruction (cart path in this case). The nearest point of complete relief (and its one-clublength drop area) may very well put you and/or your ball in the middle of a hedge, behind a tree, or some other undesirable condition. After (or before!) you take complete relief, you still have the option of declaring it unplayable, and at the cost of one penalty stroke, take stroke-and-distance, back-on-the-line, or 2-clublength lateral relief.
you can ALWAYS declare your ball as unplayable. its not a question of judgement but of strategy. the reason we use the term "unplayable" in this context is because that was the original reason a rule needed to be conceived. In Strokeplay, when you cant reach a ball, have to climb to your death to play it, etc. etc. etc. this didn't seem to make much sense. Its the same rule that takes effect when you hit it o.b. in this case you are forced to deem it unplayable...
On the nearest point of relief, i have never heard any rules state that the nearest point of relief is the shortest distance the ball has to move in order to get complete relief. Hence it can be different for a right handed player and left handed player
@@wachinpntdry. I disagree. For a lefty, the drop would be on the other side i.e. the ball would have travelled to it's nearest point of relief, shortest distance to move the ball. But if you can direct me to a video or a rule description showing I am wrong, then I will concede.
So, in your second scenario with long grass unsure if ball went in the water. Are you able to drop as far back as you like along the path of the ball? This is a newer rule so does it count in this scenario?
You’ll only get a drop off you think it went in the water. If it’s likely it was lost in the grass you’d have to go back to the tee and play 3 from there
Back on the Line Relief is NOT determined by the Flight of the Ball. BotL starts at the Hole in the Green and proceeds directly to the Point where the Ball ENTERED the Penalty Area. You get to drop farther away from the Hole on this Line.
Isn't number 5. the nearest point of relief with once club length arc. Meaning I find the nearest point off the path and then I can make an arc with my driver (less head-cover) and drop any point in that arc ?
can u clarify the last rule that ....u can take stroke and distance at any part of the course ?? Does it mezns if u hv a bad shot u can always play a second shot from the exact same spot and take one stroke penalty?
7:45 doesn’t complete relief also mean your swing (back and through) shall not be obstructed? So, if there is a bush,tree,fence etc., then that wouldn’t be complete relief, would it?
You did get complete relief from the obstruction (cart path). If your NPoR+ within 1 club length is in bushes you are screwed and better off hitting off the cart path. Also, it would have been a nice touch for him to explain how to determined which side of the cart path is the NPoR. Most players assume it is the side closest to the ball. You have to measure it.
Here's one for you. We have courses where there are rocks in the bunkers & sometimes they end up on the green & could end up partially embedded due to being stepped on or run over by a mower (yes I've actually seen that). Now say the top of the rock is directly in line with the hole & is sticking up 1/4 in making it impossible to make the putt. Can you dig it out or have to play the shot since it is not technically a loose impediment? I've heard opinions but never an actual ruling.
confused by cartpath. you have to drop within one club length of complete relief. that could be backwards (an arc of one club length no nearer to hole) 16 1a
The last one of putting it off the green happened to Tiger Woods and he, as you demonstrated, putted it again. However, what about the scenario where it's a 3-foot uphill putt which misses the cup but then rolls back past you all the way down to the apron of the green. This was happening in a recent event featured on UA-cam "Horrible putting conditions at Iowa Girls' State Golf". Presumably in the phrase 'Stroke and Distance' the 'Distance' part does not have to refer to number of yards towards the hole from the tee.
You can't play from a wrong green, but do you have to hit a putter from the wright green. Lots of people from my club say you can only hit a putter on the green. If it is a funny shaped green and you don't have a straight line to the hole, is it allowed to hit a wedge over the corner with longer grass? (just be careful not to damage the green).I think so, but lots of people say it is not allowed.
I could be completely wrong here but my understanding is that you can play any club on the green (but it is frowned upon). I believe it was Ian Poulter who chipped on the green in an Open years ago and there was nothing wrong with it
practice shots from bunkers are not allowed but what about practice swings (if it won’t slow down play) - either from a different bunker or after getting out of the bunker?
8:32 hold up a moment. Praticing a put after holing out, is t that only allowed in Matchplay? As far as I am aware, if you do this in stroke play you incur a penalty. Also, as far as I know, chipping on the tee box is only allowed on tee 1 before you tee off and then not allowed on any tee box during your round. If I am wrong with any of that, can someone point me to the corresponding rule(s)?
The twelve and sixtenth greens are connected at Park Hyatt Aviara Resort, Spa & Golf Club in Carlsbad, Ca. of which I volunterred for 8 years(2012-2020)and to me in following the rules I would have drop in front of the sixteenth green chip over that green rather than putting. right?
On a Double Green, such St. Andrew's is famous for, as long as the Green is shared by one of the Holes you are playing then the entire Green is "your Green". The Video spoke of two separate Greens that were in close proximity to each other and would each be a "wrong Green" for the other Hole.
You'll need to look at the particular course's local rules. Some golf clubs do define an area of a double green as "the wrong green", but this will have to be indicated somehow. If there are no indications or written rules, a double green is simply defined as the putting green, and you may hit it from anywhere.
So for #6, I assume the same is true for OB? If you hit a ball into some high grass/bushes, and behind those bushes is OB, unless you're 95% sure the ball went OB then you can take drop and distance?
The procedure for a lost ball is exactly the same as for a ball OB, so if you lose the ball in such a way, 95% doesn't apply. If the ball is found in the high grass and not OB, none of that matters.
There was no replaying of a bad shot. If you are referring to him accidentally knocking the ball of the tee, then your answer is in Rule 6.1a. In this case "Make a stroke" is the key factor. A stroke is defined as "The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball." The intention to do so is imperative. If you are referring to accidentally causing the ball to move when you have already identified is as yours, Rule 9,4b If you are referring to accidentally moving it on the putting green, 13.1d and finally if you are referring to accidentally hitting or moving it while searching for it, that's covered by rule 7.4
@@roberttexas3618 Rule 17 for Penalty Areas. Rule 19 for Unplayable Ball. Most People never consider that Stroke and Distance can actually put you closer to the Hole. 😉
The situation of the ball on the path ... if your drop is going to put you in more trouble declare the ball unplayable and then you have 3 options, replay the shot, two club relief no closer to the hole and back as far as you like on the line. Any ball at any time can be deemed "unplayable."
Don't forget the Unplayable costs a Penalty Stroke. And if you have started taking Free Relief, you CAN'T switch off to Unplayable. You have to choose before you pick up the Ball.
This is interesting. In this case, the player is not taking relief from the cart path. I assume the relief (with penalty) could be taken in such a way that AFTER THE DROP, the player might be standing on the path. In that case the player could then take relief from the path using the new ball position to determine nearest point of relief.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 Right! So, you've got to think about that before doing anything. Also, you'd have to look at the idea of how many shots will it take to get on the green. If with the free drop it'll take 2 shots and possibly 3, and with the penalty drop you can definitely get on the green in one shot, the penalty drop is the way to go.
@@Randsurfer Yeah, that too. I was thinking that taking the ball back far enough would allow the player, in that scenario, to hit over the trees or whatever and onto the green in one shot, (two with the penalty.)
@@Randsurfer 2 of the options for Unplayable Ball are 1) Two Club Lengths from the location of the Ball no nearer to the Hole (Lateral Relief) so more than 7 feet. 2) Back on the Line Relief, so depending upon the Location of the Hole and where the Ball is, and the layout of the Path ... And Yes, a Penalty Drop that places you onto a Cart Path is then Eligible for Free Relief, BUT you then still have to follow the procedure of determining NEAREST Point of Complete Relief with the Path. Just remember, Back on the Line Relief is a Straight Line from the Hole on the Green through the Location of the Ball and onwards. Cart Paths usually are on one side of the Hole or the other, so BotL is usually taking you farther off that Golf Hole.
On 7. Is there a difference between long and short rough then? On 6. If I am certain it didn't go in but can't find it, what are the options. Is there a drop in the area or just retake shot with a penalty stroke? On 5. As shown, is there a penalty stroke? Also if the nearest point of relief doesn't let me have a full swing is it nearest point of relief? On 2. No penalty?
7. rough is actually part of the "general area" which is basically everything including the fairways and rough. There are only five defined areas: "general area", Teeing area, penalty areas, bunkers, & putting greens. 6. Retake the shot is the only option as you are not certain. 5. No, you get free relief from the cart path. Yes its still the nearest point if you do not have a full swing. You can take a relief penalty or make the attempt or stroke and distance. 2. No penalty, you get free relief from a wrong green.
What you could have explained with the water hazard is what happens if you had, sensibly, hit a provisional ball? I thought you couldn’t hit a provisional ball with a penalty area?
In this Situation you can have a potential Lost Ball in the Rough that might not have made it into the Penalty Area, so you are allowed a Provisional. The Problem then becomes ascertaining is the Ball "In or Out" of the P A.
If you land in a seemingly unplayable spot when putting or chipping, you can take a stroke to reput and chip or keep your stroke at an attempt to play the near unplayable shot
Easy. 1) If your Putt/Chip ends in a Penalty Area that you Don't want to Play as it lies from the PA - "Stroke and Distance" Penalty is always an option. So add a Stroke, Drop where you played the last Putt/Chip from. Essentially a "do over" that costs a Penalty Stroke. Rule 17 2) You can do the same after you have created an Unplayable Ball because Stroke and Distance Relief is on of the 3 options for Unplayable Ball. Rule 19
A regular rule i see people getting wrong is provisional ball,most notably around hazard areas. Number 6 for example, if the player lost sight of the ball as it was heading towards that heavy rough/hazard can they decide to hit a provisional and what are the consequences of doing so? My understanding is you cant hit a provisional for a ball entering a hazard/OB so once you hit the provisional you are essentially saying your ball is potentially lost but not in the hazard.
If you're 100% (or maybe 95% according to the video) it's in the hazard / OB then yes. Don't play a provisional. Replay for OB and drop/replay for hazard. The point is that if you don't know for sure then play the provisional.
Can someone help with this situation. I'm in a bunker, I hit the ball, the ball doesn't make it out of the bunker and rolls into my own deep foot print. Does it need to be played where it is or can I get a drop out of the foot print? Still on bunkers - if your ball ends up in someone else's deep foot prints (previous player didn't rake the bunker) what is the rule in this situation?
Most of the experienced golfers I play with interpret the rules differently. Many inexperienced golfers haven't got a clue to be honest. This highlights how unnecessarily confusing the rules are. R&A please simplify all the rules!! For example cart path, drop either side no nearer the hole. Moving a ball unintentionally - make it replace in original spot through the course not just certain locations etc. etc.
The Unplayable lie is a big one I see people mess up, even in tournaments. They think, for the drop option, it's the nearest point that gets you out of trouble. Not true. It's two club lengths, even if that drop would occur in an undesirable spot. Often the best choice is to re-hit. You also have the option of going as far back on a line between the ball & the hole as your heart desires & play from there.
I witnessed an incident reciently while looking for a ball in deep rough, as I spotted his ball he nearly stepped on it, just managed to avoid it or so I thought. He looks down, says he stepped on it and proceedes to 'replace' his ball onto a footprint in the grass he'd just made. From being deeply buried, it was now clearly accessable on a flattened piece of rough.
1:15 you say you are not penalised if you accidently move the ball in the rough whilst looking for it. Then at 3:05 you say "If you move your ball accidentally or not on the fairway or in the rough, there is still a penalty, despite a lot of people believing there isn't". Thanks for the contradictory advice, I now have no idea on the correct ruling.
When taking relief from cart path, aren't you supposed to find nearest point, mark it and from there you've got one club length, which is your second mark? It wouldn't have mattered in your case, but it could be relevant otherwise. Edit: I see others spotted it as well :D
@@Ddonaldson9 they were explaining How to determine NEAREST Point of Complete Relief. The One Club Length from NPCR determines how far the Ball can Bounce and/or Roll and still be in play or needs to be dropped a Second time.
yes. you are correct. They did not elaborate that you can drop it within 1 club length of the reference point, which is the nearest point of complete relief. The ball must com to rest in this relief area, which can be no closer to the pin than the reference point, which can also be no nearer the pin than the point where the ball came to rest on the cart path. Rule 16.1b for reference.
You also have one club length from the nearest point of relief, so he could have marked that point, then dropped the ball one club length back towards the camera where the grass looked shorter
Nope, Rule 13.1f saves you. A "wrong Green" is considered General Area and your Relief off the Wrong Green must also be in the General Area. Bunkers aren't General Area.
Not bad but a couple of things I think missed. Firstly is they did not mention what the penalty was if you move your ball in the general area (1 stroke). Secondly I think they should have explained regarding cart path relief that the nearest point of complete relief will normally be different for a left and right handed player. That is often not understood.
Did you not make a mistake when taking relief from the cart path by NOT taking into account that the relief should include the stance, i.e. the feet also need to be off the cart path? It is the entire 'unit' of stance + ball that need to move off the cartpath.
Rule #6…what was it? Seems the rule itself was in the tall grass and I didn’t even know what you were discussing…yes, penalty if in the water, but isn’t a ball lost in the grass also +1 stroke?
Question about number 5 @ 7:44. What if you were heading in the opposite direction, or you were a left handed golfer in that situation you had. Does your nearest point of relief include your feet? You’d have to put the ball so far into those trees if you stayed on that side of the cart path. One might argue, if you were hitting in the other direction, or a lefty, the ball would actually be closer to its original spot, if it was on the other side of the cart path.
For a RIGHT handed Player, the Point of Complete Relief is usually about 6 inches LEFT of the Path and 30-36 inches RIGHT of the Path. Either of these provide Complete Relief for Stance and Swing in relation to the Path. Then you have to determine which of these two are closer to the Location of the Ball. For a LEFT Handed Player the opposite is True. 6 inches RIGHT of the Path and 30-36 inches LEFT of the Path.
Yes. The "nearest point of complete relief" does take into account if you are left handed. In that case you need to measure which point is closest to the balls original position. in this particular case, it looks as if you would have a "nearest point of complete relief" even further into the thick hay, though. That said, if a right handed player can make a good case as to why he would play it left handed, he too can do this. In some cases, for instance if the ball has come to rest exactly in the middle of the cart path, it could make a big difference if you are right or left handed. I should add that the intended shot must be within reason and cannot be based on what outcome you will get from the free relief.
So it sounds to me like it COULD have been a drop on the fairway side, if that means the ball is actually closer to the original spot, even if you end up with a better lie.
With the extreme Width of the Cart Path and the Position of the Ball on it, even if the Hole was being played back towards the Camera the NPCR would be to the Left of the Path as we see it here. A RH Player's heels would just be off the Path. A LH Player would look just like our guy here only he would be Hitting the Ball back at the Camera.
My strangest one is if you hit a drive and suspect it has gone out of bounds you can hit a provisional. If you go on to find your original ball in a very bad or unplayable lie you cannot decide to play your provisional you MUST go back to the tee and play 3 from.
That's because in general, you don't get to choose which situation you like better. Ball in the gorse bush? Of course you would want to play the provisional in the middle of the fairway. But your stroke-and-distance shot might end up right in that same gorse bush or you might take an unplayable and then take 3 more to get to the fairway. So you have to deal with the situation into which you got yourself, not pick the better of two pre-determined options. In the case of OB, once it's determined the ball is OB, it is no longer in play and the provisional becomes the ball in play, Or once it's determined the ball is in-bounds, the provisional is immediately abandoned. In either case, you do not get a choice.
@@wadesworld6250 That throw up the question or when a ball is 'lost'. Players used to think they could just declare it lost but the rules now specifically stop that. A ball is lost when it's not found (after 3 minutes of looking). This can be bypassed. If the ball is "seen" to be OB then provisional is immediately active. If the provisional is played beyond the (I think its) believed point of the lost ball. This does seem an odd rule to me. If the player would rather play the provisional I guess they will either just waste 3 minutes look in the wrong place for a ball they don't want (waste time that the PGA and R&A are trying to stop) or just play dumb and play the provisional beyond the 'lost' ball making it 'in play'. I guess if you can see a ball OB then you're obliged to keep looking for 3 minutes until the provisional can be deemed 'in play'. Even this explanation is 100% www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/declare-lost-golf-ball-rules/
Two scenarios. What happens if you have a putt on a double green where the incorrect hole is on the line of your putt? What happens if you land in the wrong hole on a double green?
ruleswise there is no such thing as a "double green". you are referring to a "shared green". that in turn means you are not playing from the "wrong green". so putt it. make it. make the others cry.
Interesting how, for rule situation #3, Neil repaired the on-green ball mark wrongly and in a way that would likely ultimately kill the grass whose roots he tore.
On a shared Green, as long as you are playing one of these two Holes, the entire Green is your Green even if you are on the distant part. What the Video refers to is Two Separate Greens in close proximity. Each Green would be a "wrong Green " for the other Hole.
Well, rule 1 is going to be abused by our group from now on. Stroke and distance is sometimes preferable. Especially if duffed into a bunker or thick rough and the like.
Stroke and distance is essentially the act of paying one penalty "stroke" for erasing the "distance" of the previous shot, putting you back to where you started. Example - tee shot ends up in the water. Pay one stroke (your 2nd), and give back the distance from your last shot. You're back where you started, about to hit your 3rd stroke from your teeing area. Put a ball somewhere within your teeing area (on a tee, if you choose to do so), and swing away. OR, your par putt on a Par 4 blows by the hole and ends up in the water. Pay one stroke (your 5th), and you're back to where you started your previous stroke - about to hit your 6th stroke from the spot of your last putt. Place a ball there and putt.
That last rule was such a good point.
There are several times (looking back) that I wish I had of done that.
I have one that comes to mind specifically... I hit a par 5 in regulation, and then put a putt ever so slightly past the hole and it rolled into a bunker. Wish I'd known that rule.
The rule i find most difficult to follow is the one that says you have to get the ball in the hole in the least number of shots.
Excellent 😂😂😂
same i often take 30 shots a hole
I always get it in the hole in the least amount of shots, just sometimes the least amount of shots is 9.
😁🤪🤣🏌️♀️
That’s not a rule, just merely a suggestion 😂
Very helpful. I was aware of most of the rulings but the final one was completely new to me! I wish I knew it four years ago - I was on a green on a par 4 in two, putted from about 40 feet and went through the green and off and into the lake! I eventually took 10 to hole the ball.
I did this very thing this week!
@@daveireland1983 we're almost blood brothers now!
I was told very early on in my playing career - you can always replay your shot. It's like taking 3 off the tee,,,
Good stuff. At about 12.52 where you talk about out and back links courses, I think it may be worth clarifying that in the case of shared greens (like many on the Old course at St Andrews) you are not on a wrong green and play the ball as it lies. Also in the last point, where you talk about the stroke and distance option on the green, it may have been worth mentioning that this predicated on you, as the player, having sole discretion to declare your ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course.
Stroke and distance does not require a reason. "Unplayable" can be invoked but player can also just say they are playing Stroke and Distance.
The shared greens they're talking about have a strip of fringe separating the two individual green surfaces. If they were connected and the surface was the same from green to green, then they'd truly be considered "shared" greens and you'd be able to putt from the other one.
you sound like fun harry
Thank you, guys. Some really great lessons there. Cheers.
if I'm looking for my ball and me being a very heavy man step on it and it sinks into the ground but doesn't otherwise move what do you do? I just moved it back on line into more rough and played on but we got the whole club house debating after over beers. lol
on the cart path problem you are certainly right that the nearest point of complete relief is where you drop it, but remember, you have one club length of relief area, no nearer the hole, from that point, meaning you could have dropped it a bit further back and found yourself in the slightly shorter grass. As long as the cart path does not interfere with your stance or stroke where your ball comes to rest, you have still dropped correctly in this given situation.
Also, you must take full relief. You can’t drop and than stand on the cart path.
@@bobmcglone6676 correct
Yes ... I was shocked they left out the one club length. For this type of video, you just can't get stuff like this wrong.
@@jplucky5783 that section was about determining NEAREST Point of Complete Relief, the one club length only determines the Relief Area the Ball must remain in after being dropped.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 I understand that. That was my point. They correctly stated the process for determining nearest point of relief, but then he demonstrated by dropping the ball on that exact spot (into tall grass), when there was clearly a better option within one club length.
For #1, it would have been a good idea to explain what the hell "take a stroke and distance" means. Or demonstrate the option. Or something. This is actually generally true of several of the statements made, should elaborate rather than using additional terms of art that a more casual audience wouldn't understand.
It would be nice to explain the remedies, which ones still incur a penalty and which ones don’t.
Looking at the rules (16.1b), after establishing where your nearest point of complete relief is from an immovable object, when dropping your ball you then do this within 1 club length of the NPOR, not nearer the hole which you didn't mention in the video?
The one Club Length establishes the Relief Area the Ball must stay in to remain in play after the Drop.
The explanation was on how to determine the NEAREST Point of Complete Relief, which is where the mistake is generally made.
You are correct. They failed to mention this.
Just a question.
Do you get stance relief from the cart path? If your ball is on grass but you would stand on path.
Yes
You have the option of Standing on the Path as a "Play it as it lies".
IF you want Relief then both You and the Ball must be completely OFF the Path before you play your next Stroke.
When taking relief from the cart path, are you not entitled to get a club length from the nearest point of relief, no nearest the hole?
Yes I thought that as well………..
You are correct in that he didn't show the full drop proceedure, however the point they were making is that the nearest point of relief from where the Ball lay was in the long grass.
Well done guys,,, love the videos, keep them coming please👍🏻
I was going to ask the same question. I took relief from a path in a comp last year. Nearest point of relief and then within 1 club length no nearer the hole. The old boys in the group behind challenged me as they saw me drop and a debate followed. I knew I was right but they were insistent I wasn’t. My playing partners then sat on the fence so I played 2 balls to cover each scenario and got a par with both. Took great pleasure in watching the club pro and comps secretary explain the rule to them and pointing out I was correct. Any apology……..of course not
you are indeed. As long as the ball comes to rest within this relief area.
Your pitchmark repair was done the wrong way according to our greenkeeper. That way rips up the gras roots.
🤣😂 yep I noticed that too
Agreed 👍 not right at all
Agreed!
spot on.
So how about explaining the correct way & why to help all of us? I have tried originally to pull away from the mark, which makes a really nice flat repair. I have read to not damage the roots to pull in around the divot. When I do that I notice the inside of the hole made is still left with a visible hole. I vote for the repair that makes the surface as best back to normal looking for the next golfers.
Stroke and distance on the putting green, interesting. Surprisingly useful.
Yes, but confusing. Well, for me it is.
Admittedly, I am confused. He said you are allowed to take stroke and distance on the green as you are any where on the course. What? Can you arbitrarily decide to take stroke and distance any time that it suits you? I thought it was required to take S&D if you lost the ball, but is he saying you can do this at any point you hit a wayward shot? Even on the green? This doesn’t make sense to me. Did I miss something?
@elderhiker7787 You can take stroke and distance any time you want but it'll still cost you a penalty stroke
Hey guys. Love the vids. Can we have a vid on the rules of striking the ball? Using your putter like a pool cue for example. ❤
or how for a while players were using those really long putters pressed against their chests.
This is so much fun, but I would really appreciate you giving the number of the rule you’re illustrating. I’m busy trying to memorize all the rules by number so every number is important- as it should be to everyone. Thanks!
On No.6, when I did basic rules school, they emphasised that the call of "virtual certainty" was yours to make. Your playing partner can disagree but ultimately you call it.
I had a scenario at a golf meet: one of the golfers hit a ball into the crook of a tree about 3 feet off of the ground. She was able to identify the ball, but obviously could not hit the ball. She was told that she had to go back to where she hit the ball and rehit with stroke and distance. Was this correct or could she have gotten free relief? Thanks in advance and great videos!!!
She couldn't get free relief, no. Stroke & Distance is always an option but she would have been better off declaring it "Unplayable" and then, because she knew it was her ball, probably using the 2 club length relief area from the spot directly under where the ball was lodged, to drop for 1 PS. She could have taken Back of the LIne relief (a line back along a line from the spot of the ball directly to the flag) or as said earlier, S&D, both for 1 PS.
I'm thinking of coming back to golf after 6 or so years away from the game, I'd heard there had been rule changes/simplifications which was a good positive step, but there's still a long way to go - that last rule seems bonkers!
I've been away for 15 years. First new set of clubs in 30 years.
It's not easy getting back into it.
@@dobermanownerforlife3902 true, but what makes it even worse is when you dig out your old golf bag after all that time and find an uneaten banana 🍌🤢
@@3DGvisualsSorry, but that's funny.
Very helpful. In my experience the yellow marked penalty area causes the most confusion.
Thank you. Very informative. And well explained.
Helpful and clearly explained.
One thing omitted on the teeing area discussion. What happens with a full, intentional swing that turns into an 'airshot' (been there, done it!) and causes the ball to dislodge from the teepeg? This counts as Stroke 1, with Stroke 2 being played from the tee grass, or wherever it ended up from the peg?
Suggestion for another video: Neil and Jezz cover rules that have significantly changed over the last 50 (?) years that have different penalties/results, etc. Some of the current videos touch on rules that have changed, but if a video(s) could cover before and now. Example: Loose Impediments in Sand trap used to not be allowed to be touched. Now you can move them. So, cover what used to happen along with the penalty, and what is allowed now. Another example would be - I believe it used to be that you had to strike the ball with the 'striking' face of the club, and I believe it used to also be you couldn't hit the ball with the back of a putter unless the front and back were the same, however I've seen golfers in the last last 10 years hitting it with the back and even the toe (Vijay Singh) into the cup without being penalized. I've enjoyed studying the rules for more than 50 years, but now I can't rely on my memory to cite rules and penalties as they change. Videos specifically on CHANGED rules would be helpful.
Pertaining to no. 6 ruling, I noticed that the red penalty was marked very close to the water. In regards to why the new rules were written to help save strikes and time, I would mark the penalty area next to the fairway, because it would save time, because you would probably be virtually certain that the ball would in the PA.
I found the last rules interesting. "Stroke and Distance"! Is that available on ANY shot? For example an approach that goes a overshot and ends up in a position where I would find it difficult to get into a useful position.
Yes, the stroke and distance rule paired with the provisional ball rule will speed up your round of golf and lower your score when properly applied!
Can you explain if you get a free drop from faint or deep tractor marks. This is causing a great deal of discussion at our golf club .
With regards to your 'repairing a pitch mark' scenario, what is the rule about being off the green but brushing loose impediments off the green on the line of your shot? I was told this was not allowed but I'm unsure if this is true.
You can attend to the Green at anytime regardless of the Position of the Ball.
Just remember Sand and Dirt AREN'T Loose Impediments OFF the Green, so this you can't touch.
loose impediments can be removed anywhere, even now in bunker or penalty area. But make sure you know definition of "loose impediment".
number 1 is awesome! Didn't know that! 2-stroke pen and putt again
No, only one penalty shot, Rule 18. It costs you 2 because you have one stroke for replacing plus one as you have to hit it again.
Great Stuff.. Very Helpful !!!
Played a course one time where a tiered green was so fast and sloped, I tapped my putt from the top fringe and once it hit the edge of the tier it rolled the 30 yards across the green, off the green and then crossed the cart path and another 16 yards to the pond bank then down into the water. I don't play that course anymore.
For nearest point of relief from the path, I thought you had to mark your spot, then use a one-club relief arc to drop the ball. Since he most likely dropped in what would have been that relief arc, is it OK to skip those prior steps?
No5 nearest point of relief position does depend upon LH or RH golfer
Good video. But, on # 6: I'm not clear on your guidance ... did you instruct on what to do next?
Yah they were unclear and the rules themselves on this are a little wordy. basically he is "certain or virtually certain" the ball was not in the penalty area (water) so he must take stroke and distance relief instead of taking the other relief options available when you hit a penalty area.
When taking relief from path and the side we take relief has a bush do we have to drop in bush ??
Yes, It is free relief though. You do get one club length no nearer the hole from the point of full relief. From that point all your nornal options appy as if your ball had gone straight in the bush from your previous shot.
Yes. you must always drop in the nearest bush, not closer to the green.
Question for #5, relief from the cart path. What if the long grass to the side of the path was marked as hazard, with the hazard line drawn about a foot off the cart path? Would you be required to drop in the small strip before the hazard and then stand in the hazard?
Yes, as long as you had complete relief from the cart path then you drop it within 1 club length but only in that strip; you cant drop it in the Penalty Area (not Hazard, that term doesn't exist any more). It wouldn't matter if you were then standing in the Penalty area to play your next stroke as long as the ball is in the correct relief area.
Playing from wrong green ... you are saying you can't putt from the wrong green on a double green ? If so, how do you know where the boundary of each green is ?
I was going to ask this too, where there is no "boundary" fringe.
Usually there are signs that show where one green ends and the other begins. That is how the course I play handles this.
@@marcc9965 On my course we have a double green with no differentiation at all. People often putt from one to the other.
They were talking about two separate Greens in close proximity to each other.
This is Not a shared Green for 2 holes such as St. Andrews is famous for. If your Green is a Shared Green the entire Green is still considered "your Green".
If there is no visible boundary, you are on "your" green, there is no "wrong" green.
Stroke and distance so if your putt goes further away than off the green u can take it again but add 2 shots is that right? Ihave couple questions and im sure tou gius havent covered believe it or not one is repairing big ditch mark on greens when really wet where do u replace ball if impression is still lower than green surface on top or to the side as i hit shot that did this on downhill par 3 then replaced vall on top but jumped off line for birdie putt and got par even though it was 8inches away from hole gutted. Also if a played ball lands on another fairway and says he's trying to get back on correct hole but proceeds to hit bad shot on wrong hole but is cutting a corner so is a shorter distance clearly thats not allowed? Thanks guys always a pleasure to watch.
No, only one penalty shot, Rule 18. It costs you 2 because you have one stroke for replacing plus one as you have to hit it again.
If you mean repairing a big divot your ball made on the green, you make your best effort to repair the divot and play your shot from the exact spot.
Yes you can play the shortcut across another fairway because its all within the general area, unless there is a local rule which would be written on the score card.
The other guy already answered, but ill clarify the stroke and distance, you count the original shot, one penalty for replacing the ball and then your next shot, so its one penalty stroke and any actual stroke you make with a ball in play.
3:18-5:21 - So, if you're not virtually certain it went into the penalty area, and you can't find it, is it officially a lost ball, and re-hit taking stroke and distance?
I didn't know that last one. Or, at least, I never thought about using it in that manner. But I'm still confused a bit. Does the ball have to be unplayable? or can you just declare it unplayable, even if it's not?
You can declare any ball in the general area unplayable and the decision to do so is entirely up to the owner of the ball. Cheers.
@@markmccombes7874 you can declare a Ball Unplayable anywhere on the Course, except for Penalty Areas.
As for Penalty Areas, Stroke and Distance is a Relief Option for both RED and YELLOW.
Stroke and Distance Penalty Relief is always an option for Penalty Areas under Rule 17
S and D Penalty Relief is one of the 3 Options for Unplayable Ball under Rule 19
"Unplayable" is moot. Stroke and Distance is always available.
Wait. Please clarify. Based on the last one covered, you’re saying if I merely don’t like the result of any shot, I can drop and hit again from that same spot with just adding one stroke? That portion of the video started on the putting green but it was later said that can be from “anywhere on the course”. Can you tell me where I can cite that in the rules book?
Yes, rule 18.1: At any time a player may take stroke-and-distance relief by adding one penalty stroke and playing the ball or another ball from where the previous stroke was made. which links to rule 14.6 on how to do it correctly.
@@pxblade Follow Up: I believe if one hits a bad shot off the tee and it's still in the tee box, they can re-tee it, as their next stroke (2). However, if it goes outside the tee box, I can re-hit from where the previous stroke was made, taking stroke and distance. My question is, can I re-tee it?
@@BKMadeInUSA hey there, yes you can re-tee it as part of stroke and distance if your last shot was from the tee box. The saying is "three off the tee" when this happens and hopefully you don't need to apply it one more time for five off the tee lol. If you apply stroke and distance on any other stroke in the general play area, you use the official drop rules for relief. On the green you can replace the ball exactly or as close to where your putt was originally taken.
Question on number six, the deep rough near the water... Can you take an unplayable and go back along the line without going back to the original point? Or is it different because it's a lost ball?
FWIW, I've almost never seen it played "properly" in the sense of going back to the original point of the shot. Then again, purely for pace of play even in a casual league I would go with "it must've rolled in"
You have to first Find YOUR Ball before you can consider an "Unplayable" in any Situation.
question for your complete relief from the cart path. take the exact situation you have in the video but make the golfer left handed. they get relief to the point where their feet are completely off the path the. to where the end of the club would be. in this case the other side of the path may be the closer point. Am I correct in this?
You are correct, this is why the rule is stupid and unfair to all.
With the cart path relief, it is closest point of relief no nearer the hole. I think the point that you took relief, according to where you were pointing out the green was, was nearer the hole and that you should have taken it further toward the camera, still in the long grass.
Just to clarify what defines the nearest point of relief and does that include your stance. I you drop but can't take your stance because say of a hedge so you cant play forward and playing back involves standing on the path is that then not the nearest point of relief or just the "rub of the green"
"Nearest," not "nicest." The rule only permits you relief from a very specific condition - the immovable obstruction (cart path in this case). The nearest point of complete relief (and its one-clublength drop area) may very well put you and/or your ball in the middle of a hedge, behind a tree, or some other undesirable condition. After (or before!) you take complete relief, you still have the option of declaring it unplayable, and at the cost of one penalty stroke, take stroke-and-distance, back-on-the-line, or 2-clublength lateral relief.
The last example can be used often or only if the result of the putt/shot is judged to be unplayable ?
you can ALWAYS declare your ball as unplayable. its not a question of judgement but of strategy. the reason we use the term "unplayable" in this context is because that was the original reason a rule needed to be conceived. In Strokeplay, when you cant reach a ball, have to climb to your death to play it, etc. etc. etc. this didn't seem to make much sense. Its the same rule that takes effect when you hit it o.b. in this case you are forced to deem it unplayable...
10:28 Can I repair a pitch mark off the green after I made my stroke?
On the nearest point of relief, i have never heard any rules state that the nearest point of relief is the shortest distance the ball has to move in order to get complete relief.
Hence it can be different for a right handed player and left handed player
@@wachinpntdry. I disagree.
For a lefty, the drop would be on the other side i.e. the ball would have travelled to it's nearest point of relief, shortest distance to move the ball.
But if you can direct me to a video or a rule description showing I am wrong, then I will concede.
So, in your second scenario with long grass unsure if ball went in the water. Are you able to drop as far back as you like along the path of the ball? This is a newer rule so does it count in this scenario?
You’ll only get a drop off you think it went in the water. If it’s likely it was lost in the grass you’d have to go back to the tee and play 3 from there
Back on the Line Relief is NOT determined by the Flight of the Ball.
BotL starts at the Hole in the Green and proceeds directly to the Point where the Ball ENTERED the Penalty Area. You get to drop farther away from the Hole on this Line.
"Path of the Ball" is not used.
Isn't number 5. the nearest point of relief with once club length arc. Meaning I find the nearest point off the path and then I can make an arc with my driver (less head-cover) and drop any point in that arc ?
can u clarify the last rule that ....u can take stroke and distance at any part of the course ?? Does it mezns if u hv a bad shot u can always play a second shot from the exact same spot and take one stroke penalty?
What is the rule number for stroke and distance on the green. And does chipping from the fringe of the green count as well.
18.1& does it count as practice? yes you can practice putting or chipping from anywhere on or around the green.
7:45 doesn’t complete relief also mean your swing (back and through) shall not be obstructed? So, if there is a bush,tree,fence etc., then that wouldn’t be complete relief, would it?
You did get complete relief from the obstruction (cart path). If your NPoR+ within 1 club length is in bushes you are screwed and better off hitting off the cart path. Also, it would have been a nice touch for him to explain how to determined which side of the cart path is the NPoR. Most players assume it is the side closest to the ball. You have to measure it.
Here's one for you. We have courses where there are rocks in the bunkers & sometimes they end up on the green & could end up partially embedded due to being stepped on or run over by a mower (yes I've actually seen that). Now say the top of the rock is directly in line with the hole & is sticking up 1/4 in making it impossible to make the putt. Can you dig it out or have to play the shot since it is not technically a loose impediment? I've heard opinions but never an actual ruling.
remember when the fans moved that boulder for Tiger. Iv also seen them move builboards to clear the path on the pga
Does stroke and distance on the putting green just means putting the ball from the same exact place as the prior shot?
Yes it must be taken from the exact spot actually, or best estimate.
confused by cartpath. you have to drop within one club length of complete relief. that could be backwards (an arc of one club length no nearer to hole) 16 1a
The last one of putting it off the green happened to Tiger Woods and he, as you demonstrated, putted it again. However, what about the scenario where it's a 3-foot uphill putt which misses the cup but then rolls back past you all the way down to the apron of the green. This was happening in a recent event featured on UA-cam "Horrible putting conditions at Iowa Girls' State Golf". Presumably in the phrase 'Stroke and Distance' the 'Distance' part does not have to refer to number of yards towards the hole from the tee.
"Distance" in S & D means returning to the origin point of the Previous Stroke.
You can't play from a wrong green, but do you have to hit a putter from the wright green. Lots of people from my club say you can only hit a putter on the green. If it is a funny shaped green and you don't have a straight line to the hole, is it allowed to hit a wedge over the corner with longer grass? (just be careful not to damage the green).I think so, but lots of people say it is not allowed.
I could be completely wrong here but my understanding is that you can play any club on the green (but it is frowned upon). I believe it was Ian Poulter who chipped on the green in an Open years ago and there was nothing wrong with it
You should add chapter markers in your description!
practice shots from bunkers are not allowed but what about practice swings (if it won’t slow down play) - either from a different bunker or after getting out of the bunker?
12.2b doesn't say you can't practice in another different bunker nearby before you hit your bunker shot..😊
@@calcimagnes9124 that’s what I thought. An option probably only if a rules sticklers playing partner objects to a beginner taking practice shots.
8:32 hold up a moment. Praticing a put after holing out, is t that only allowed in Matchplay? As far as I am aware, if you do this in stroke play you incur a penalty.
Also, as far as I know, chipping on the tee box is only allowed on tee 1 before you tee off and then not allowed on any tee box during your round.
If I am wrong with any of that, can someone point me to the corresponding rule(s)?
Nope. In between holes is not in play in any scenario. Until you tee off on any hole you have not put the ball in play.
The twelve and sixtenth greens are connected at Park Hyatt Aviara Resort, Spa & Golf Club in Carlsbad, Ca. of which I volunterred for 8 years(2012-2020)and to me in following the rules I would have drop in front of the sixteenth green chip over that green rather than putting. right?
On a SHARED Green the entire Green is Your Green as long as you are playing One of these Two Holes.
What if you're on a double green can you put from the green that is technically the green you're not playing?
On a Double Green, such St. Andrew's is famous for, as long as the Green is shared by one of the Holes you are playing then the entire Green is "your Green".
The Video spoke of two separate Greens that were in close proximity to each other and would each be a "wrong Green" for the other Hole.
You'll need to look at the particular course's local rules. Some golf clubs do define an area of a double green as "the wrong green", but this will have to be indicated somehow. If there are no indications or written rules, a double green is simply defined as the putting green, and you may hit it from anywhere.
@@Ruinsthename Generally painted line would tell the golfer which green he is on in this scenario.
So for #6, I assume the same is true for OB? If you hit a ball into some high grass/bushes, and behind those bushes is OB, unless you're 95% sure the ball went OB then you can take drop and distance?
What is 'drop and distance'?
The procedure for a lost ball is exactly the same as for a ball OB, so if you lose the ball in such a way, 95% doesn't apply. If the ball is found in the high grass and not OB, none of that matters.
What is the rule number you used for replaying the bad shot on the # 1 misunderstood rule?
Stroke and Distance Relief for Penalty Areas is under Rule 17.
S and D Relief for Unplayable Ball is under Rule 19
There was no replaying of a bad shot. If you are referring to him accidentally knocking the ball of the tee, then your answer is in Rule 6.1a. In this case "Make a stroke" is the key factor. A stroke is defined as "The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball." The intention to do so is imperative.
If you are referring to accidentally causing the ball to move when you have already identified is as yours, Rule 9,4b
If you are referring to accidentally moving it on the putting green, 13.1d
and finally if you are referring to accidentally hitting or moving it while searching for it, that's covered by rule 7.4
@@Ruinsthename no I was talking about stroke and distance putt the ball off the green
@@roberttexas3618 Rule 17 for Penalty Areas.
Rule 19 for Unplayable Ball.
Most People never consider that Stroke and Distance can actually put you closer to the Hole. 😉
The situation of the ball on the path ... if your drop is going to put you in more trouble declare the ball unplayable and then you have 3 options, replay the shot, two club relief no closer to the hole and back as far as you like on the line. Any ball at any time can be deemed "unplayable."
Don't forget the Unplayable costs a Penalty Stroke. And if you have started taking Free Relief, you CAN'T switch off to Unplayable.
You have to choose before you pick up the Ball.
This is interesting. In this case, the player is not taking relief from the cart path. I assume the relief (with penalty) could be taken in such a way that AFTER THE DROP, the player might be standing on the path. In that case the player could then take relief from the path using the new ball position to determine nearest point of relief.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 Right! So, you've got to think about that before doing anything. Also, you'd have to look at the idea of how many shots will it take to get on the green. If with the free drop it'll take 2 shots and possibly 3, and with the penalty drop you can definitely get on the green in one shot, the penalty drop is the way to go.
@@Randsurfer Yeah, that too. I was thinking that taking the ball back far enough would allow the player, in that scenario, to hit over the trees or whatever and onto the green in one shot, (two with the penalty.)
@@Randsurfer 2 of the options for Unplayable Ball are 1) Two Club Lengths from the location of the Ball no nearer to the Hole (Lateral Relief) so more than 7 feet.
2) Back on the Line Relief, so depending upon the Location of the Hole and where the Ball is, and the layout of the Path ...
And Yes, a Penalty Drop that places you onto a Cart Path is then Eligible for Free Relief, BUT you then still have to follow the procedure of determining NEAREST Point of Complete Relief with the Path.
Just remember, Back on the Line Relief is a Straight Line from the Hole on the Green through the Location of the Ball and onwards.
Cart Paths usually are on one side of the Hole or the other, so BotL is usually taking you farther off that Golf Hole.
Where's best to practice banker shots then if it's not permitted on a quiet golf course? ?
Just can’t do it during a round of golf
On 7. Is there a difference between long and short rough then?
On 6. If I am certain it didn't go in but can't find it, what are the options. Is there a drop in the area or just retake shot with a penalty stroke?
On 5. As shown, is there a penalty stroke? Also if the nearest point of relief doesn't let me have a full swing is it nearest point of relief?
On 2. No penalty?
7. rough is actually part of the "general area" which is basically everything including the fairways and rough. There are only five defined areas: "general area", Teeing area, penalty areas, bunkers, & putting greens.
6. Retake the shot is the only option as you are not certain.
5. No, you get free relief from the cart path. Yes its still the nearest point if you do not have a full swing. You can take a relief penalty or make the attempt or stroke and distance.
2. No penalty, you get free relief from a wrong green.
What you could have explained with the water hazard is what happens if you had, sensibly, hit a provisional ball? I thought you couldn’t hit a provisional ball with a penalty area?
In this Situation you can have a potential Lost Ball in the Rough that might not have made it into the Penalty Area, so you are allowed a Provisional. The Problem then becomes ascertaining is the Ball "In or Out" of the P A.
Number 1 (the last one) is still confusing. I think you may need to re-explain that one. Well, at least for me. Please ????
If you land in a seemingly unplayable spot when putting or chipping, you can take a stroke to reput and chip or keep your stroke at an attempt to play the near unplayable shot
Easy. 1) If your Putt/Chip ends in a Penalty Area that you Don't want to Play as it lies from the PA - "Stroke and Distance" Penalty is always an option. So add a Stroke, Drop where you played the last Putt/Chip from.
Essentially a "do over" that costs a Penalty Stroke. Rule 17
2) You can do the same after you have created an Unplayable Ball because Stroke and Distance Relief is on of the 3 options for Unplayable Ball. Rule 19
A regular rule i see people getting wrong is provisional ball,most notably around hazard areas. Number 6 for example, if the player lost sight of the ball as it was heading towards that heavy rough/hazard can they decide to hit a provisional and what are the consequences of doing so?
My understanding is you cant hit a provisional for a ball entering a hazard/OB so once you hit the provisional you are essentially saying your ball is potentially lost but not in the hazard.
If you're 100% (or maybe 95% according to the video) it's in the hazard / OB then yes. Don't play a provisional. Replay for OB and drop/replay for hazard. The point is that if you don't know for sure then play the provisional.
Can someone help with this situation.
I'm in a bunker, I hit the ball, the ball doesn't make it out of the bunker and rolls into my own deep foot print.
Does it need to be played where it is or can I get a drop out of the foot print?
Still on bunkers - if your ball ends up in someone else's deep foot prints (previous player didn't rake the bunker) what is the rule in this situation?
Most of the experienced golfers I play with interpret the rules differently. Many inexperienced golfers haven't got a clue to be honest. This highlights how unnecessarily confusing the rules are. R&A please simplify all the rules!! For example cart path, drop either side no nearer the hole. Moving a ball unintentionally - make it replace in original spot through the course not just certain locations etc. etc.
The Unplayable lie is a big one I see people mess up, even in tournaments. They think, for the drop option, it's the nearest point that gets you out of trouble. Not true. It's two club lengths, even if that drop would occur in an undesirable spot. Often the best choice is to re-hit. You also have the option of going as far back on a line between the ball & the hole as your heart desires & play from there.
What happens when on fairway or rough, if you move an object, like a stick, and your ball moves slightly?
I think people need to play golf to have fun and stop taking everything so seriously. Unless it is for money, have fun. Don't sweat the small stuff.
what does replacing a ball mean? new ball old position, or same ball old position??
What about divets on the fairways
I witnessed an incident reciently while looking for a ball in deep rough, as I spotted his ball he nearly stepped on it, just managed to avoid it or so I thought. He looks down, says he stepped on it and proceedes to 'replace' his ball onto a footprint in the grass he'd just made. From being deeply buried, it was now clearly accessable on a flattened piece of rough.
thats just honesty, golf is built on it, cant do much in that scenario.
1:15 you say you are not penalised if you accidently move the ball in the rough whilst looking for it. Then at 3:05 you say "If you move your ball accidentally or not on the fairway or in the rough, there is still a penalty, despite a lot of people believing there isn't". Thanks for the contradictory advice, I now have no idea on the correct ruling.
When taking relief from cart path, aren't you supposed to find nearest point, mark it and from there you've got one club length, which is your second mark? It wouldn't have mattered in your case, but it could be relevant otherwise.
Edit: I see others spotted it as well :D
Imagine making a video about confusing rules and then explaining the rule wrong.
The Ball has to stay inside the One Club Length Area after being dropped to be back In Play.
@@Ddonaldson9 they were explaining How to determine NEAREST Point of Complete Relief.
The One Club Length from NPCR determines how far the Ball can Bounce and/or Roll and still be in play or needs to be dropped a Second time.
yes. you are correct. They did not elaborate that you can drop it within 1 club length of the reference point, which is the nearest point of complete relief. The ball must com to rest in this relief area, which can be no closer to the pin than the reference point, which can also be no nearer the pin than the point where the ball came to rest on the cart path. Rule 16.1b for reference.
@@Ddonaldson9 I need to see a video explaining the mistakes in this video
Didnt get a full explanation of rule 6, an unsighted lost ball, what are the options and penalties
Your relief from the cart path was closer to the hole😮
Yes, according to them, the hole was "around the corner", they moved in that direction.
You also have one club length from the nearest point of relief, so he could have marked that point, then dropped the ball one club length back towards the camera where the grass looked shorter
Very helpful - too bad you incorrectly repaired the pitch mark on the green (you don’t pull up, you should push in)!
If on wrong green, if nearest point of relief is in a bunker, I guess that's just hard luck?
Nope, Rule 13.1f saves you.
A "wrong Green" is considered General Area and your Relief off the Wrong Green must also be in the General Area.
Bunkers aren't General Area.
Not bad but a couple of things I think missed. Firstly is they did not mention what the penalty was if you move your ball in the general area (1 stroke). Secondly I think they should have explained regarding cart path relief that the nearest point of complete relief will normally be different for a left and right handed player. That is often not understood.
Did you not make a mistake when taking relief from the cart path by NOT taking into account that the relief should include the stance, i.e. the feet also need to be off the cart path? It is the entire 'unit' of stance + ball that need to move off the cartpath.
*Editing note*
Please recap the rule and maybe even add a brief example just before moving on to the next rule. It helps us ADD golfers.
Is there a penalty for moving your ball off the wrong green?
Rule #6…what was it? Seems the rule itself was in the tall grass and I didn’t even know what you were discussing…yes, penalty if in the water, but isn’t a ball lost in the grass also +1 stroke?
So in the last scenario you are saying I can just have a redo using stroke and distance penalty even if the ball is playable? That doesnt sound right
Question about number 5 @ 7:44. What if you were heading in the opposite direction, or you were a left handed golfer in that situation you had. Does your nearest point of relief include your feet? You’d have to put the ball so far into those trees if you stayed on that side of the cart path. One might argue, if you were hitting in the other direction, or a lefty, the ball would actually be closer to its original spot, if it was on the other side of the cart path.
For a RIGHT handed Player, the Point of Complete Relief is usually about 6 inches LEFT of the Path and 30-36 inches RIGHT of the Path. Either of these provide Complete Relief for Stance and Swing in relation to the Path.
Then you have to determine which of these two are closer to the Location of the Ball.
For a LEFT Handed Player the opposite is True. 6 inches RIGHT of the Path and 30-36 inches LEFT of the Path.
Yes. The "nearest point of complete relief" does take into account if you are left handed. In that case you need to measure which point is closest to the balls original position. in this particular case, it looks as if you would have a "nearest point of complete relief" even further into the thick hay, though. That said, if a right handed player can make a good case as to why he would play it left handed, he too can do this. In some cases, for instance if the ball has come to rest exactly in the middle of the cart path, it could make a big difference if you are right or left handed.
I should add that the intended shot must be within reason and cannot be based on what outcome you will get from the free relief.
So it sounds to me like it COULD have been a drop on the fairway side, if that means the ball is actually closer to the original spot, even if you end up with a better lie.
With the extreme Width of the Cart Path and the Position of the Ball on it, even if the Hole was being played back towards the Camera the NPCR would be to the Left of the Path as we see it here.
A RH Player's heels would just be off the Path.
A LH Player would look just like our guy here only he would be Hitting the Ball back at the Camera.
@@MrGreenMath i don't believe thqt to be the case. The LH player would most likely have to drop even further into the rough than the right handed.
My strangest one is if you hit a drive and suspect it has gone out of bounds you can hit a provisional. If you go on to find your original ball in a very bad or unplayable lie you cannot decide to play your provisional you MUST go back to the tee and play 3 from.
That's because in general, you don't get to choose which situation you like better. Ball in the gorse bush? Of course you would want to play the provisional in the middle of the fairway. But your stroke-and-distance shot might end up right in that same gorse bush or you might take an unplayable and then take 3 more to get to the fairway. So you have to deal with the situation into which you got yourself, not pick the better of two pre-determined options.
In the case of OB, once it's determined the ball is OB, it is no longer in play and the provisional becomes the ball in play, Or once it's determined the ball is in-bounds, the provisional is immediately abandoned. In either case, you do not get a choice.
@@wadesworld6250 That throw up the question or when a ball is 'lost'. Players used to think they could just declare it lost but the rules now specifically stop that. A ball is lost when it's not found (after 3 minutes of looking). This can be bypassed. If the ball is "seen" to be OB then provisional is immediately active. If the provisional is played beyond the (I think its) believed point of the lost ball.
This does seem an odd rule to me. If the player would rather play the provisional I guess they will either just waste 3 minutes look in the wrong place for a ball they don't want (waste time that the PGA and R&A are trying to stop) or just play dumb and play the provisional beyond the 'lost' ball making it 'in play'.
I guess if you can see a ball OB then you're obliged to keep looking for 3 minutes until the provisional can be deemed 'in play'.
Even this explanation is 100% www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/declare-lost-golf-ball-rules/
if a player strikes at the ball and misses, making no contact with the ball, is there a penalty ?
Two scenarios. What happens if you have a putt on a double green where the incorrect hole is on the line of your putt?
What happens if you land in the wrong hole on a double green?
Excellent questions.
ruleswise there is no such thing as a "double green". you are referring to a "shared green". that in turn means you are not playing from the "wrong green". so putt it. make it. make the others cry.
Interesting how, for rule situation #3, Neil repaired the on-green ball mark wrongly and in a way that would likely ultimately kill the grass whose roots he tore.
Wait a minute! I play a course that has a dual green ... one side is hole 9 the other is 18. There would be no way to tell where 9 begins and 18 ends.
On a shared Green, as long as you are playing one of these two Holes, the entire Green is your Green even if you are on the distant part.
What the Video refers to is Two Separate Greens in close proximity. Each Green would be a "wrong Green " for the other Hole.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 Yes, in your example The two greens would be separated by a piece of turf which is not cut to green length.
Well, rule 1 is going to be abused by our group from now on. Stroke and distance is sometimes preferable. Especially if duffed into a bunker or thick rough and the like.
Effectively, Stroke and Distance gives you a "Do Over"
but plus 2strokes😢 how is that a do-over?
Stroke and distance penalty for accidental stroke.
What is stroke and distance?
Stroke and distance is essentially the act of paying one penalty "stroke" for erasing the "distance" of the previous shot, putting you back to where you started.
Example - tee shot ends up in the water. Pay one stroke (your 2nd), and give back the distance from your last shot. You're back where you started, about to hit your 3rd stroke from your teeing area. Put a ball somewhere within your teeing area (on a tee, if you choose to do so), and swing away.
OR, your par putt on a Par 4 blows by the hole and ends up in the water. Pay one stroke (your 5th), and you're back to where you started your previous stroke - about to hit your 6th stroke from the spot of your last putt. Place a ball there and putt.