I was a garage door technician for 25 years and an insulator before that. One thing I learned early is like Mike Holmes says. If you're going to do it do it right I would never roof over an existing roof ever , and by ever I mean NEVER.
There's a reason why this roof was leaking or why it was failing or why it was having some kind of problem it might have just been times up for the roof but you don't roof over an existing that's like repainting an engine block with Leak seal.
Hi Kenny, respectfully, I don't see your point at all. "Roofovers" with standard shingles are no problem for leaks if done correctly, and it's really not hard to do correctly if you just follow the instructions and get new shingles that are the same dimension as the old. The old shingles underneath are just like an underlayment. Even if the old shingles had some leaks, they'd be at least as watertight as a new underlayment (and probably a lot more). All the houses around me are similar style from around 1950. Most of them even have their same original underlayment. If underlayment is rotten, then sure, it needs to be replaced.
@@collizaki Nice job. My friend who is a roofer told me you can go over old shingles one time, as long as there were no leaks that would rot out the plywood sheeting; otherwise he said the sheeting would have to be replaced; and a tearoff would be in order.
@@70Marc did I say that I would never quote my cones he's one of the best builders I've ever seen and I was in construction for a long long time whatever I said I must have been drunk I haven't reread it I don't have time right now but okay I understand
After some six years now, it's fine and looks good and no leaks! Some moss started to build up on north side even though I used the "algae resistant" type of shingle. Sprinkling baking soda up there zapped the moss, but it's kind of clingy, so I might try sweeping it off in the summer when it's dry and hot.
Update: the baking soda on the roof moss worked really well. The normal summer weather eventually took away most of the dead moss after the baking soda killed it. I used maybe four pounds of baking soda spread fairly evenly over the moss-affected (north side) of the roof.
I've seen plenty of shingle-overs here in Seattle area, and have never seen anyone using felt paper. It would get in the way of lining up the new shingles with the old. The new shingles fit in the lines formed by the old ones. That's why the new ones have to be the same dimension as the old ones.
So why did you reroof in the first place? From what I saw your existing roof still looked fine. I’m thinking of reroofing mine because my “25 year shingles” are falling apart, bald, curling after 14 years.
The older layer looked kinda OK, but was extremely sandy and slippery from the shingles deteriorating. In fact, when I bought the house, the inspector fell on the roof because of that! There were no apparent leaks, but I figured it couldn't be too long. New ones look real nice too, for some years.
I could not tell for sure, but looks like you replaced your plastic pipe vent boots with lead ones. I had to replace mine after 15 years in the sun here in the south. Went back with lead ones. 20 years later they will outlast the shingles. Good job.
What happens if you decide to sell your home? Is the roofing job abnormal that you have to include disclaimer? Im in the market for my first home and have been binge watching home renovations and DIY projects lol
No, it's still considered a new roof. If you are in the market for a home and the listing says new roof, ask if it has a warranty. If the homeowner did the roofing themselves then there will not be a warranty.
Hi Ahn, in my locality (in the Seattle area) there are no permits necessary for doing such a reroof. When houses are bought/sold, both the bank and the buyer generally perform inspections, and can flag a roof if it appears not done well or if there are more than the allowed number of layers, in which case the seller may have to fix any problem before the house can sell, or else the sales price is negotiated down. Doing a reroof like this is not difficult to do correctly if you carefully follow instructions and guidelines, but it is not a job for everyone.
@@MegaKB333 There is NEVER any warranty on the materials for a ""roofover" reroof like in this video, even if it is done by a professional roofing company. In other words, any house with more than one layer of shingles has no warranty on the shingles (although installers may fix their own glitches on their own honor). That being said, materials warranties are next to worthless anyway. When reroofing like this, it is far better just to use a shingle material that has a good track record in your climate, and if you are not sloppy with workmanship, your chance of problems will be minimal. If, each time I roof, I want to get a warranty (which has lots of loopholes anyway) then I'm obligated to spend about $13,000 extra for a complete tear-off. Instead, I can spend just $2,000 on materials and do it myself without the warranty as long as my roof still doesn't have too many layers. It's a no-brainer if you have the time and necessary skills.
You might check the insurance companies in your state! In Indiana your insurance will cover only two layers( yes I know that’s what he’s doing) my point it would be just good business to check to see if this would be covered
Don't know if this question was asked. How long did it take you to do this roof. My home is about 27 sq 6/12 pitch in Fl. and I'm planing on doing it myself since roofers want over $12,000. to do mines after Hurricane Michael hit an I think it's to much. Also was the roof inspected during and after completion and how did that go. Thanks
Hi firstpitstop. It took me a couple weeks working PT on it, and a friend and a neighbor helped a bit too. I did it in the "dry season" here, but even then it rained a bit. The only water-vulnerable parts of my roof to rain were the ridges where I had removed the ridge cap shingles (have to remove them to do a reroof like this). So I just covered ridges with some thin mil plastic sheets during rains, pinned down with loose shingles. Your roof does sound like a tougher slope than mine. Mine was pretty easy--can just walk on the whole roof easily. In my locality (Seattle area) there are no permits and no inspections for a reroof like this. It's about 5 or 6 years old now and is working and looking fine. Good luck on your project. If you don't want to DIY on it, you might find a roof-knowledgeable handyman to do it for you.
Hi Rob! It took me basically a September that year. Of course, that was part-time, and I did the work mostly by myself. It was the rainiest Sept in the history of my rather rainy area, so that made me take some days off too! I'll guess it was less than 100 hours physical labor, but not too much less. The real time consumer is the valleys and hip ridges. The same roof area without all the valleys and hip ridges (like with a simple gable roof) would me MUCH faster to do, maybe half the labor time. Be sure to read my full story under my video for details. Good luck on your project!
Hi HistoryHunter. When I was prepping to do the roofover, walking on my roof felt solid. There weren't any soft spots where I felt things might have been getting wet or rotted underneath. If I had noticed soft or sagging spots on my roof, I would have checked in the attic under them to see if there has been any leakage or rotten deck areas under the older layer(s) of shingles. I did not notice any issue on my roof as far as that goes. I think the key for me was to add a new layer before the older layer was starting to have any leaks. I'm a homeowner, not a pro, so I'm just telling you my own experiences.
Hi History--in my jurisdiction it is only "permitted" to do three shingle layers max, although for a roofover (adding another layer) there are no permits required and of course no permit checking. But I think there is a bit of a problem just adding more and more layers due to the weight. Shingles actually add quite a bit of weight to the structure, and I wouldn't want to overdo it myself. Also, if you're thinking about reselling the house in my jurisdiction, 4 layers would likely be a no-no. The real estate inspectors can usually easily see the number of layers and would probably raise a red flag on it, which would make the sales price less and would make some banks unable to lend to buyers on it till the roof was replaced with a tear-off.
Yeah, for sound effects the grunts are better than whistling "fiddler on the roof". I swear I wasn't pooping up there! (Neighbors would have objected.)
Hi Anthony, what are the nightmares? My nextdoor neighbor, almost identical house, had three layers of 3-tab. The third layer lasted him 20+ years without leak or any problem. He recently did a tear off. He saved, in today's dollars, roughly $20K by doing roofovers twice.
My previous home had 2 layers and it was fine. Double check in your crawl space to see if there’s any hidden water damage first. My main concern is getting rid of all the moss on my existing roof as it’s lifting the edges of the shingles up. Previous owners did not maintain the house AT ALL! It probably has its original paint from 24 years ago. Roof is holding for now but PNW weather is very wet and I don’t want to risk leaks. I hope it can hold till next summer as we’re painting and probably residing the house this summer.
I agree. From what I've read, shingle-overs result in a few years less lifetime for the layer of shingles. However, that's not a big sacrifice given the huge cost savings of shingle-overs. Also, I think the reason cited for less lifetime is that the surface becomes somewhat less flat with each layer. If you are careful to scrape off any mossy bumps and line up the new shingles with the old, then you will retain a flat surface, and I think that will minimize any loss of lifetime.
@@bigalsguttersandlandscapes909 Hi Big Al, most of my neighbors (similar houses) have done shingle-overs, and none of them have experienced any noticeable warping. My back-door neighbors's house had a third layer that lasted fine nearly 20 years before he had a tear-off done with a new deck (he had lived in the house since 1973 so he knew the house history). This is the Seattle area, so it rarely reaches 100F in summer. Could be different in a place like Arizona, but I have no experience with that.
Hi SteveO. I've never seen anyone use tarpaper when "reroofing" like this, including the professional roofers. (Some of of the roofing companies WILL add layers like this). I don't see any rationale for tarpaper either, especially if there are no existing leaks. If there ARE leaks, then the source of the leak probably should be addressed first before adding a new layer. Also, the tarpaper would interfere with the rhythm of the shingles. When adding a new layer, it's important to get the same dimension of shingles as the ones that are currently on the house, because then the new ones will install right along the lines of the old ones. That makes shingling a lot easier. If you put down a layer of tarpaper, that will make the lines hard to follow. There are two common standard dimensions of shingles: English and Metric. I added some tarpaper and Grace Water Shield in my two valleys as just an extra precaution, but it's not necessary to do so, and is probably overkill.
Agree, that's why I installed the standard Landmark rather than the thick "architectural/dimensional" type. The standard type nowadays is kind of like a bit thicker 3-tab, I guess. But I suppose that might even be more "old school" by your estimation! In any case, these last long, look good, and match with all my neighbors' houses, so it makes the neighborhood look kind of nice too. Probably 90% of houses here in expensive Seattle have similar standard asphalt composite shingles, and people are generally sticking to it with new roofs too.
Many contractors in Iowa say they don't make NCO shingles anymore, lol. The hail annihilated the single part of my architectural shingle so what good is the other half but to cause a bump in next layer or require lumber under steel. And that extra nothing costs money weight heet and not fun to cut. I'll be checking out Landmark......cause I'm a rebel! I should just move to Seattle...dang real estate! The Venus Project to a future near you??
Hi Kansas. What are the negatives in your opinion? I'm a bit surprised because I and other family have had houses with even the maximum allowed three layers, and they had no roof problems. Up until fairly recently, overlaying has been a very standard practice.
collizaki First off, tear off is not that hard or expensive. Heat buildup can be an issue. Flashing around pipes can be an issue and if a leak does happen you now have 2 layers to deal with. And if you ever need or god forbid someone that gets your home ever has to replace the roof its a pita. I over layed my home years ago and just had to fix plywood around vents due to water damage! Dealing with 2 layers was a pita. I will never over lay again.
Hi Kansas. Thanks for bringing up the point on flashings! In my video, I showed that I replaced the flashings. Can't see how to do it well otherwise. Definitely any "roofover" should replace flashings as part of the process, and if you do that, then they will only be embedded in a single layer, just like a new roof. It is CRITICAL to shingle around flashings well. In my write-up below the video, I give a link to one of the many good youtube videos that demonstrate proper shingling around flashings. Not sure what you mean by heat buildup. My roof has the same vents as before, and I replaced the flashings for those as well. Any roof should have proper venting, and people should take care to preserve the venting, or add it where it is missing.
Javier, I am the customer. It was my own house. True, manufacturer warranty only applies to installation over a "clean deck". But there are so many limitations on most shingle warranties that, even in professional installations, the warranty will only cover a part of the costs ONLY IF there is a defect in the shingles. That's why I took care to pick a shingle that got good ratings for durability and quality. The benefit of the savings from doing an intelligent DIY on this far exceeded any risk of voiding the very limited warranty. To attain a "clean deck" with a professional roofer, I would have had to spend literally 6x more money.
Can't speak to Canada, but most "roofing standards" organizations (run by roofing companies of course) promote tear offs. One, because it gives clear evidence of a good deck, and two, because it makes them a LOT more money. Fact is, you can get a pretty good indication of an OK deck by just walking on a lower-sloped roof, or by inspecting a steep-sloped roof from the attic. Another fact is that tear-offs cause a LOT more expense for homeowners, and are usually unnecessary. As for shingle warranties becoming void, that's not much of a sacrifice. Shingle warranties are extremely limited anyway, and only cover the pro-rated lifetime of the shingle material value itself, which is only a minor portion of a re-roof cost, especially when it's a tear off. Best bet is to just research and use a shingle that has done well in durability tests and ratings.
collizaki that’s not true. Walking a roof without visual of deck you cannot detect mold or rot. Shingle over is a cheap bandaid. You get what you pay for.
@@irietropicals4255 Hi Cb. It's generally true, especially if you've had no leak problems, because rot will become soft over time. Also you can just view the underlayment from inside the attic, which is pretty easy, and which I've done plenty of times, because it's my house. It's a good idea for homeowners to be familiar with their attic, and I added a line about doing that in my text description under the video.
@@irietropicals4255 Cb, it's kinda funny to call it a "bandaid". It's been normal practice for likely hundreds or thousands of years, and still is normal, even in the fairly expensive urban area I'm in, until modern marketing stepped in. Can't find exclusions for this in my insurance. The below article (link below) suggests that some insurance companies might exclude MORE than two layers, but I suspect a lot of insurance companies defer to local codes on the issue (in my city it's still three layers, I believe). And the exclusion is only for the value of the roof anyway. You can add a second or third layer for a tiny fraction of the cost of a complete strip-off and new deck, so you're still ahead even if it gets shredded for some unlucky reason. longroofing.com/blog/homeowners-insurance-cover-roof-damage/
All I am saying is that it's like making cheater enchiladas. Instead of rolling them up you just lay the tortillas in their flat that's the same thing as roofing over an existing roof I would never do that to my own home much less somebody else's home tear it off and do it right I'm not saying it won't work, or that it doesn't work. I've seen it done many times! it does work. I would never do it to my own home ever. What I'm saying is it's not the right way to do it! Tear it off and do it right !!
Well, roofing can be a horrible job, if that's what you mean. As for the job I did here, I'm rather proud of it. I studied it in detail before I did it, and I can compare it favorably to the work done by many pro teams that I've seen since, and I did it for a fraction of the price. My roof has had, of course, no problems in the years since I finished it, and looks rather nice. A lot of pro jobs don't even use the drip-edge, which is called for by the shingle specs.
I agree it a poor job. Didn't really read the specs. Grace needs to be on wood or can lap onto the drip edge. Putting it on shingles or underlayment voids warranty. Weaving a valley voids warranty. Low sloped roof like that one should be stripped or it has a chance for ice dam leaking. Must live in the south. The lead flashing looked like ass and yes I replace it. New roof equals new flashings. If you did a true layover there is no need for the grace, underlayment, drip edge but instead you did a modified shit show that loses warranty for all material makers. That includes the shingles too. But keep reading the internet on how to. Been doing roofs few 30 plus years and yes times have changed and layover are not well received. Most area now require an inspection of the trusses or rafters before a layover can occur because of the weight. Yes shingle might last 20 years but there are so many other things that play into it. Like I hope you got good collar ties because your walls can be pushed outwards and ridge line sag because of too much weight. But what do I know only have roofed thousands of places and built hundreds of houses and additions. Just because people do it doesn't mean it's a good practice. Yes pro can suck but you get what you pay for and you need to research who you hire
Hi Michael--actually I followed all the manufacturer specs for ice-dam prevention and valley weaving in the product manual. Warranties on the Grace and the shingles themselves are pretty useless anyway, so nothing much to be concerned about there. Just go with quality rated products, and that's the main protection. The Grace certainly has not lapped onto the drip edge, and it's been about 6 years now. I really can't imagine that it would, given the roughness of material underneath it and the low slope. Some might accuse me of overkill, but the Grace adds some leak protection in areas that could be more prone to leaks. I do agree with you on the roof weight issue, though. I would consider carefully about adding any third layer, even though that is allowed in my jurisdiction.
I think contractors often do a pretty good job of giving themselves a bad name. I often see where contractors are cutting corners, and not even following materials specs! Not to mention padding so many jobs with obviously unnecessary work. It's become like the medical industry!
Looks like you need a better contractor, remember get three estimates do your homework be responsible homeowner when it comes to your biggest investment.
@@MGade-sk8mc I'd say poor contracting work is pretty typical, actually. That's why smart DIY is the way to go, if you can. The owner cares more about his/her house than any contractor will.
Nothing smart about going over shingles man. No warranty stated in there installation guide if you go over. It’s a Pandora’s box doing this way. Like I said before do your homework on a contractor or make sure you follow all instillation guidelines.
Nothing smart about doing a tear off of a completely good membrane that still is light enough. Waste of labor, materials, and money. And shingle warranties are next to worthless: they only cover the pro-rated lifetime of the shingle materials themselves, a tiny fraction of the price of the job. It's best just to choose a shingle with good durability ratings. If roofovers are a pandora's box, then all hell should be breaking loose in any neighborhood built before say 1980, but I'm surrounded by 65+ year-old houses that have likely all had at least 3 layers at some point, and are all fine.
I'm sure a lot of professionals would agree with you. But it's really not very complicated work, and the instructions that the shingle manufacturers provide are good. In fact, years ago, I had a professional re-roofing done on my previous house. I found the manufacturer's specs laying around and read them. I noticed two ways that the pro installers were not following the specs, and had to ask them to correct themselves. That's when I realized I could easily do as good or better than the pros, especially with an easy slope roof like I have now. Still now, I can notice how many pro crews are cutting corners, and I'm proud that my DIY job is among the best (and best looking) in the neighborhood.
collizaki 1/3 DIY Deaths are from homeowners falling off the roof. Just keep that in mind next time you encourage people to just on their roof as you did with no safety equipment. Money not worth anyone's life.
Medgrower, I've never seen any of the pro roofing teams use safety equipment on any of the similar houses in my 'hood, apparently because the slope is so easy and they don't feel a need. Furthermore, I pointed out in the video and the explanation that one reason I DIYed was because of my easy roof slope. Besides, I'm not even suggesting anyone do anything. I'm explaining what I did myself. Sure there are roofs that require safety equipment, and of course any DIYer should rent or buy that if it is needed.
collizaki you may never "see" pros using safety equipment on "similar" houses probably becasue they are pros and they have been doing it their whole lives. Dont risk your life. Be smart.
Medgrower, frankly, that's kinda silly. By the way, where'd you get your statistics from (1/3 of all DIY deaths)? Can you quote the source? I think you're confusing it with a study that shows that 1/3 of all construction-related deaths are due to falls from roofs. That's not at all surprising, and it applies to anyone on a roof, pros or DIYers. You're right that everyone has to be at least somewhat careful on a roof, but any sort of work--DIY or pro-- involves some risks, and my roof presents VERY little risk!
It's true that Grace WS is designed for the deck, but I felt it was just extra insurance in the valleys. It was probably overkill to do it. It's been 5 or 6 years now and have certainly not had any problem with it. It's not oozing out or anything!
You made a good choice, adding the underlayment before the shingles. Kudos!
Awesome video, just what i was looking for! Thank you for taking the time to edit it so well!
Looks really nice. Great job on the roof.
Thanks I'll be doing my roof this summer .
I was a garage door technician for 25 years and an insulator before that. One thing I learned early is like Mike Holmes says. If you're going to do it do it right I would never roof over an existing roof ever , and by ever I mean NEVER.
There's a reason why this roof was leaking or why it was failing or why it was having some kind of problem it might have just been times up for the roof but you don't roof over an existing that's like repainting an engine block with Leak seal.
Hi Kenny, respectfully, I don't see your point at all. "Roofovers" with standard shingles are no problem for leaks if done correctly, and it's really not hard to do correctly if you just follow the instructions and get new shingles that are the same dimension as the old. The old shingles underneath are just like an underlayment. Even if the old shingles had some leaks, they'd be at least as watertight as a new underlayment (and probably a lot more). All the houses around me are similar style from around 1950. Most of them even have their same original underlayment. If underlayment is rotten, then sure, it needs to be replaced.
@@collizaki Nice job. My friend who is a roofer told me you can go over old shingles one time, as long as there were no leaks that would rot out the plywood sheeting; otherwise he said the sheeting would have to be replaced; and a tearoff would be in order.
I wouldn’t quote Mike Holmes. He wasn’t as knowledgeable as he thought he was, just because he had a show.
@@70Marc did I say that I would never quote my cones he's one of the best builders I've ever seen and I was in construction for a long long time whatever I said I must have been drunk I haven't reread it I don't have time right now but okay I understand
I did a second layer on my old house work out fine how is yours holding up
After some six years now, it's fine and looks good and no leaks! Some moss started to build up on north side even though I used the "algae resistant" type of shingle. Sprinkling baking soda up there zapped the moss, but it's kind of clingy, so I might try sweeping it off in the summer when it's dry and hot.
Update: the baking soda on the roof moss worked really well. The normal summer weather eventually took away most of the dead moss after the baking soda killed it. I used maybe four pounds of baking soda spread fairly evenly over the moss-affected (north side) of the roof.
So you don't need to put felt paper down over the old shingles first?
I've seen plenty of shingle-overs here in Seattle area, and have never seen anyone using felt paper. It would get in the way of lining up the new shingles with the old. The new shingles fit in the lines formed by the old ones. That's why the new ones have to be the same dimension as the old ones.
@@douglascollins1042 oh ok. I didn't know if you needed it or not. Thank you.
So why did you reroof in the first place? From what I saw your existing roof still looked fine.
I’m thinking of reroofing mine because my “25 year shingles” are falling apart, bald, curling after 14 years.
The older layer looked kinda OK, but was extremely sandy and slippery from the shingles deteriorating. In fact, when I bought the house, the inspector fell on the roof because of that! There were no apparent leaks, but I figured it couldn't be too long. New ones look real nice too, for some years.
I could not tell for sure, but looks like you replaced your plastic pipe vent boots with lead ones. I had to replace mine after 15 years in the sun here in the south. Went back with lead ones. 20 years later they will outlast the shingles. Good job.
What happens if you decide to sell your home? Is the roofing job abnormal that you have to include disclaimer? Im in the market for my first home and have been binge watching home renovations and DIY projects lol
No, it's still considered a new roof. If you are in the market for a home and the listing says new roof, ask if it has a warranty. If the homeowner did the roofing themselves then there will not be a warranty.
Hi Ahn, in my locality (in the Seattle area) there are no permits necessary for doing such a reroof. When houses are bought/sold, both the bank and the buyer generally perform inspections, and can flag a roof if it appears not done well or if there are more than the allowed number of layers, in which case the seller may have to fix any problem before the house can sell, or else the sales price is negotiated down. Doing a reroof like this is not difficult to do correctly if you carefully follow instructions and guidelines, but it is not a job for everyone.
@@MegaKB333 There is NEVER any warranty on the materials for a ""roofover" reroof like in this video, even if it is done by a professional roofing company. In other words, any house with more than one layer of shingles has no warranty on the shingles (although installers may fix their own glitches on their own honor). That being said, materials warranties are next to worthless anyway. When reroofing like this, it is far better just to use a shingle material that has a good track record in your climate, and if you are not sloppy with workmanship, your chance of problems will be minimal. If, each time I roof, I want to get a warranty (which has lots of loopholes anyway) then I'm obligated to spend about $13,000 extra for a complete tear-off. Instead, I can spend just $2,000 on materials and do it myself without the warranty as long as my roof still doesn't have too many layers. It's a no-brainer if you have the time and necessary skills.
You might check the insurance companies in your state! In Indiana your insurance will cover only two layers( yes I know that’s what he’s doing) my point it would be just good business to check to see if this would be covered
Don't know if this question was asked. How long did it take you to do this roof. My home is about 27 sq 6/12 pitch in Fl. and I'm planing on doing it myself since roofers want over $12,000. to do mines after Hurricane Michael hit an I think it's to much. Also was the roof inspected during and after completion and how did that go. Thanks
Hi firstpitstop. It took me a couple weeks working PT on it, and a friend and a neighbor helped a bit too. I did it in the "dry season" here, but even then it rained a bit. The only water-vulnerable parts of my roof to rain were the ridges where I had removed the ridge cap shingles (have to remove them to do a reroof like this). So I just covered ridges with some thin mil plastic sheets during rains, pinned down with loose shingles. Your roof does sound like a tougher slope than mine. Mine was pretty easy--can just walk on the whole roof easily. In my locality (Seattle area) there are no permits and no inspections for a reroof like this. It's about 5 or 6 years old now and is working and looking fine. Good luck on your project. If you don't want to DIY on it, you might find a roof-knowledgeable handyman to do it for you.
12000 is a fair price. After u do it by ur self u will see why.
How many man-hours do you think it took altogether, minus the planning and quoting?
Hi Rob! It took me basically a September that year. Of course, that was part-time, and I did the work mostly by myself. It was the rainiest Sept in the history of my rather rainy area, so that made me take some days off too! I'll guess it was less than 100 hours physical labor, but not too much less. The real time consumer is the valleys and hip ridges. The same roof area without all the valleys and hip ridges (like with a simple gable roof) would me MUCH faster to do, maybe half the labor time. Be sure to read my full story under my video for details. Good luck on your project!
Can you not read
Thank you for the video.
Roofing for the hearing impaired.... great video
...and youtubing for the speaking impaired! --Cheers
So how do you see if the deck is getting wet underneath?
Hi HistoryHunter. When I was prepping to do the roofover, walking on my roof felt solid. There weren't any soft spots where I felt things might have been getting wet or rotted underneath. If I had noticed soft or sagging spots on my roof, I would have checked in the attic under them to see if there has been any leakage or rotten deck areas under the older layer(s) of shingles. I did not notice any issue on my roof as far as that goes. I think the key for me was to add a new layer before the older layer was starting to have any leaks. I'm a homeowner, not a pro, so I'm just telling you my own experiences.
collizaki im aboutto attempt to do mine.it was my great grandparents home built 1915 and currently has three roof overs....smh
collizaki in my opinion it would sufice leaving it to add an extra barrier...
Hi History--in my jurisdiction it is only "permitted" to do three shingle layers max, although for a roofover (adding another layer) there are no permits required and of course no permit checking. But I think there is a bit of a problem just adding more and more layers due to the weight. Shingles actually add quite a bit of weight to the structure, and I wouldn't want to overdo it myself. Also, if you're thinking about reselling the house in my jurisdiction, 4 layers would likely be a no-no. The real estate inspectors can usually easily see the number of layers and would probably raise a red flag on it, which would make the sales price less and would make some banks unable to lend to buyers on it till the roof was replaced with a tear-off.
collizaki No resale.Hoping to save it.Its 113 114 years old and grandfathered in so its just a dusty diamond lol.thanks for the help.
The grunts at 7:35 hilarious
Yeah, for sound effects the grunts are better than whistling "fiddler on the roof". I swear I wasn't pooping up there! (Neighbors would have objected.)
ummmm always strip and start fresh. reroofing always has its nightmares down the line.
Hi Anthony, what are the nightmares? My nextdoor neighbor, almost identical house, had three layers of 3-tab. The third layer lasted him 20+ years without leak or any problem. He recently did a tear off. He saved, in today's dollars, roughly $20K by doing roofovers twice.
My previous home had 2 layers and it was fine. Double check in your crawl space to see if there’s any hidden water damage first. My main concern is getting rid of all the moss on my existing roof as it’s lifting the edges of the shingles up. Previous owners did not maintain the house AT ALL! It probably has its original paint from 24 years ago. Roof is holding for now but PNW weather is very wet and I don’t want to risk leaks. I hope it can hold till next summer as we’re painting and probably residing the house this summer.
Yea ur probably a ripoff roofer or just ignorant. The idea of a roof is simple, understand it and you will change ur mind unless ur a ripoff roofer:)
vadim nesen it’s totally fine to overpay if there is no water damage from the first roof
Some people can afford a whole rip off
Looks good but the only problem is going over shingles will shorten the life of the shingles that you put on
I agree. From what I've read, shingle-overs result in a few years less lifetime for the layer of shingles. However, that's not a big sacrifice given the huge cost savings of shingle-overs. Also, I think the reason cited for less lifetime is that the surface becomes somewhat less flat with each layer. If you are careful to scrape off any mossy bumps and line up the new shingles with the old, then you will retain a flat surface, and I think that will minimize any loss of lifetime.
@@collizaki true but the heat will warp the shingles quick erdue to no breathing
@@bigalsguttersandlandscapes909 Hi Big Al, most of my neighbors (similar houses) have done shingle-overs, and none of them have experienced any noticeable warping. My back-door neighbors's house had a third layer that lasted fine nearly 20 years before he had a tear-off done with a new deck (he had lived in the house since 1973 so he knew the house history). This is the Seattle area, so it rarely reaches 100F in summer. Could be different in a place like Arizona, but I have no experience with that.
i love it. just seems like them gutters probably werent gonna move water real well. jk but really lol
Shouldn't you of added another layer of tar paper before
Hi SteveO. I've never seen anyone use tarpaper when "reroofing" like this, including the professional roofers. (Some of of the roofing companies WILL add layers like this). I don't see any rationale for tarpaper either, especially if there are no existing leaks. If there ARE leaks, then the source of the leak probably should be addressed first before adding a new layer. Also, the tarpaper would interfere with the rhythm of the shingles. When adding a new layer, it's important to get the same dimension of shingles as the ones that are currently on the house, because then the new ones will install right along the lines of the old ones. That makes shingling a lot easier. If you put down a layer of tarpaper, that will make the lines hard to follow. There are two common standard dimensions of shingles: English and Metric. I added some tarpaper and Grace Water Shield in my two valleys as just an extra precaution, but it's not necessary to do so, and is probably overkill.
Nice job and video. Ignore the trolls.
All of that money for ice/water membrane and no ridge vent ??????
architectural shingles are junk...nco way to go
Agree, that's why I installed the standard Landmark rather than the thick "architectural/dimensional" type. The standard type nowadays is kind of like a bit thicker 3-tab, I guess. But I suppose that might even be more "old school" by your estimation! In any case, these last long, look good, and match with all my neighbors' houses, so it makes the neighborhood look kind of nice too. Probably 90% of houses here in expensive Seattle have similar standard asphalt composite shingles, and people are generally sticking to it with new roofs too.
Many contractors in Iowa say they don't make NCO shingles anymore, lol. The hail annihilated the single part of my architectural shingle so what good is the other half but to cause a bump in next layer or require lumber under steel. And that extra nothing costs money weight heet and not fun to cut. I'll be checking out Landmark......cause I'm a rebel! I should just move to Seattle...dang real estate! The Venus Project to a future near you??
How to over lay a roll on roof
Overlaying is not a good idea. The negatives far exceed the positives.
Hi Kansas. What are the negatives in your opinion? I'm a bit surprised because I and other family have had houses with even the maximum allowed three layers, and they had no roof problems. Up until fairly recently, overlaying has been a very standard practice.
collizaki
First off, tear off is not that hard or expensive. Heat buildup can be an issue. Flashing around pipes can be an issue and if a leak does happen you now have 2 layers to deal with. And if you ever need or god forbid someone that gets your home ever has to replace the roof its a pita. I over layed my home years ago and just had to fix plywood around vents due to water damage! Dealing with 2 layers was a pita. I will never over lay again.
Hi Kansas. Thanks for bringing up the point on flashings! In my video, I showed that I replaced the flashings. Can't see how to do it well otherwise. Definitely any "roofover" should replace flashings as part of the process, and if you do that, then they will only be embedded in a single layer, just like a new roof. It is CRITICAL to shingle around flashings well. In my write-up below the video, I give a link to one of the many good youtube videos that demonstrate proper shingling around flashings. Not sure what you mean by heat buildup. My roof has the same vents as before, and I replaced the flashings for those as well. Any roof should have proper venting, and people should take care to preserve the venting, or add it where it is missing.
I combined my four stink pipes into one and vented them out the rear side.
architectural shingle is junk...nco baby nco old school
Manufacturer warranty will be voided if you overlay the roof. I hope you informed the customer...
Javier, I am the customer. It was my own house. True, manufacturer warranty only applies to installation over a "clean deck". But there are so many limitations on most shingle warranties that, even in professional installations, the warranty will only cover a part of the costs ONLY IF there is a defect in the shingles. That's why I took care to pick a shingle that got good ratings for durability and quality. The benefit of the savings from doing an intelligent DIY on this far exceeded any risk of voiding the very limited warranty. To attain a "clean deck" with a professional roofer, I would have had to spend literally 6x more money.
You should have tore it off, re-paper and shingle. Period.
Ridiculous. Roof is still great after 8 years now. Did the job to code and for a tiny fraction of the quotes from the "tear-off" companies.
This is the biggest mistake you could ever make in roofing.
Ridiculous! The roof is doing great, and it's been many years later already. Mistake to save so much money?
New roof material is void once you put it on over the old roof in Canada we tear off all the old crap and replace everything it code nowadays
Can't speak to Canada, but most "roofing standards" organizations (run by roofing companies of course) promote tear offs. One, because it gives clear evidence of a good deck, and two, because it makes them a LOT more money. Fact is, you can get a pretty good indication of an OK deck by just walking on a lower-sloped roof, or by inspecting a steep-sloped roof from the attic. Another fact is that tear-offs cause a LOT more expense for homeowners, and are usually unnecessary. As for shingle warranties becoming void, that's not much of a sacrifice. Shingle warranties are extremely limited anyway, and only cover the pro-rated lifetime of the shingle material value itself, which is only a minor portion of a re-roof cost, especially when it's a tear off. Best bet is to just research and use a shingle that has done well in durability tests and ratings.
collizaki that’s not true. Walking a roof without visual of deck you cannot detect mold or rot. Shingle over is a cheap bandaid. You get what you pay for.
@@irietropicals4255 Hi Cb. It's generally true, especially if you've had no leak problems, because rot will become soft over time. Also you can just view the underlayment from inside the attic, which is pretty easy, and which I've done plenty of times, because it's my house. It's a good idea for homeowners to be familiar with their attic, and I added a line about doing that in my text description under the video.
collizaki either way you put it, it’s a bandaid. Most insurance companies will not approve this method either.
@@irietropicals4255 Cb, it's kinda funny to call it a "bandaid". It's been normal practice for likely hundreds or thousands of years, and still is normal, even in the fairly expensive urban area I'm in, until modern marketing stepped in. Can't find exclusions for this in my insurance. The below article (link below) suggests that some insurance companies might exclude MORE than two layers, but I suspect a lot of insurance companies defer to local codes on the issue (in my city it's still three layers, I believe). And the exclusion is only for the value of the roof anyway. You can add a second or third layer for a tiny fraction of the cost of a complete strip-off and new deck, so you're still ahead even if it gets shredded for some unlucky reason. longroofing.com/blog/homeowners-insurance-cover-roof-damage/
All I am saying is that it's like making cheater enchiladas. Instead of rolling them up you just lay the tortillas in their flat that's the same thing as roofing over an existing roof I would never do that to my own home much less somebody else's home tear it off and do it right I'm not saying it won't work, or that it doesn't work. I've seen it done many times! it does work. I would never do it to my own home ever. What I'm saying is it's not the right way to do it! Tear it off and do it right !!
Great you pay for it.
is a horrible. job
Well, roofing can be a horrible job, if that's what you mean. As for the job I did here, I'm rather proud of it. I studied it in detail before I did it, and I can compare it favorably to the work done by many pro teams that I've seen since, and I did it for a fraction of the price. My roof has had, of course, no problems in the years since I finished it, and looks rather nice. A lot of pro jobs don't even use the drip-edge, which is called for by the shingle specs.
I agree it a poor job. Didn't really read the specs. Grace needs to be on wood or can lap onto the drip edge. Putting it on shingles or underlayment voids warranty. Weaving a valley voids warranty. Low sloped roof like that one should be stripped or it has a chance for ice dam leaking. Must live in the south. The lead flashing looked like ass and yes I replace it. New roof equals new flashings. If you did a true layover there is no need for the grace, underlayment, drip edge but instead you did a modified shit show that loses warranty for all material makers. That includes the shingles too. But keep reading the internet on how to. Been doing roofs few 30 plus years and yes times have changed and layover are not well received. Most area now require an inspection of the trusses or rafters before a layover can occur because of the weight. Yes shingle might last 20 years but there are so many other things that play into it. Like I hope you got good collar ties because your walls can be pushed outwards and ridge line sag because of too much weight. But what do I know only have roofed thousands of places and built hundreds of houses and additions. Just because people do it doesn't mean it's a good practice. Yes pro can suck but you get what you pay for and you need to research who you hire
Hi Michael--actually I followed all the manufacturer specs for ice-dam prevention and valley weaving in the product manual. Warranties on the Grace and the shingles themselves are pretty useless anyway, so nothing much to be concerned about there. Just go with quality rated products, and that's the main protection. The Grace certainly has not lapped onto the drip edge, and it's been about 6 years now. I really can't imagine that it would, given the roughness of material underneath it and the low slope. Some might accuse me of overkill, but the Grace adds some leak protection in areas that could be more prone to leaks. I do agree with you on the roof weight issue, though. I would consider carefully about adding any third layer, even though that is allowed in my jurisdiction.
Bad idea to go over. People that go over give us contractors a bad name. Leave it to the pros.
I think contractors often do a pretty good job of giving themselves a bad name. I often see where contractors are cutting corners, and not even following materials specs! Not to mention padding so many jobs with obviously unnecessary work. It's become like the medical industry!
Looks like you need a better contractor, remember get three estimates do your homework be responsible homeowner when it comes to your biggest investment.
@@MGade-sk8mc I'd say poor contracting work is pretty typical, actually. That's why smart DIY is the way to go, if you can. The owner cares more about his/her house than any contractor will.
Nothing smart about going over shingles man. No warranty stated in there installation guide if you go over. It’s a Pandora’s box doing this way. Like I said before do your homework on a contractor or make sure you follow all instillation guidelines.
Nothing smart about doing a tear off of a completely good membrane that still is light enough. Waste of labor, materials, and money. And shingle warranties are next to worthless: they only cover the pro-rated lifetime of the shingle materials themselves, a tiny fraction of the price of the job. It's best just to choose a shingle with good durability ratings. If roofovers are a pandora's box, then all hell should be breaking loose in any neighborhood built before say 1980, but I'm surrounded by 65+ year-old houses that have likely all had at least 3 layers at some point, and are all fine.
Should get a professional when dealing with your roof. Not a DIY project.
I'm sure a lot of professionals would agree with you. But it's really not very complicated work, and the instructions that the shingle manufacturers provide are good. In fact, years ago, I had a professional re-roofing done on my previous house. I found the manufacturer's specs laying around and read them. I noticed two ways that the pro installers were not following the specs, and had to ask them to correct themselves. That's when I realized I could easily do as good or better than the pros, especially with an easy slope roof like I have now. Still now, I can notice how many pro crews are cutting corners, and I'm proud that my DIY job is among the best (and best looking) in the neighborhood.
collizaki 1/3 DIY Deaths are from homeowners falling off the roof. Just keep that in mind next time you encourage people to just on their roof as you did with no safety equipment. Money not worth anyone's life.
Medgrower, I've never seen any of the pro roofing teams use safety equipment on any of the similar houses in my 'hood, apparently because the slope is so easy and they don't feel a need. Furthermore, I pointed out in the video and the explanation that one reason I DIYed was because of my easy roof slope. Besides, I'm not even suggesting anyone do anything. I'm explaining what I did myself. Sure there are roofs that require safety equipment, and of course any DIYer should rent or buy that if it is needed.
collizaki you may never "see" pros using safety equipment on "similar" houses probably becasue they are pros and they have been doing it their whole lives. Dont risk your life. Be smart.
Medgrower, frankly, that's kinda silly. By the way, where'd you get your statistics from (1/3 of all DIY deaths)? Can you quote the source? I think you're confusing it with a study that shows that 1/3 of all construction-related deaths are due to falls from roofs. That's not at all surprising, and it applies to anyone on a roof, pros or DIYers. You're right that everyone has to be at least somewhat careful on a roof, but any sort of work--DIY or pro-- involves some risks, and my roof presents VERY little risk!
Hahahaahahah wow
Water shield really on advised being stuck down directly to decking, not over old shingles.
It's true that Grace WS is designed for the deck, but I felt it was just extra insurance in the valleys. It was probably overkill to do it. It's been 5 or 6 years now and have certainly not had any problem with it. It's not oozing out or anything!