One of the best detailed explanations of all systems involving traction control , ive got a new Mitsubishi Pajero Sport GLX , which doesn't come with the factory diff locker , but i honestly haven't needed it , as the traction control system does exactly what you have explained it should do and has got me through some interesting terrain already.Well done !
Perfect! Yeah , braking a spinning wheel will do nothing for wearing out your brakes . You're stopping far less rotating force. Nothing compared to stopping thousands of lbs. Yeah ... Some of the FJs (some years , not all years ) , when you cut on the rear locker , it turns off atrac. For my jeep , when I cut on the rear locker , bld still works on the front which is fantastic.
Best demonstration of how the brake control system works I have ever seen. You use the model in an incredibly simple and smart way.. BTW: what is the specific Lego model you use?
You did say some other factors and the Yaw sensor is one other thing used aside from the wheel speeds and steering input angle for the vehicle to tell what’s happening when one wheel is spinning and the other side isn’t.
I think the big disadvantage is that if its going to perform close to or as well as diff locks they require very large brakes such as fitted to Land Rovers, that then limits the wheel size you can use and 20 inch rims are not a good thing off road. I think the best combination is TC and twin locked. But it’s very important the front TC works with the rear locker on to get the best of both.
@@L2SFBC I know it doesn’t require very large brakes. What I’m saying is that the bigger brakes will make more on an effect and thus improving the system.
I've given up trying to tell dummies they're wrong when they think they're turning off traction control by turning off the stability control. Now I just file them as morons and keep quiet. It's the Dunning Kruger effect and most 4wders are not mental giants. I have respect for anyone who actually knows the difference between ABS, stability control, and brake traction control. There's a moron in the comments here that thinks ABS applies the brakes when in fact it cleverly does the opposite to stop a wheel from locking and skidding. ABS does stand for Antilock Braking System after all. You can't turn traction control off on a Land Rover, and why would you want to?
Wow...I didn't think people like you existed, Mike! Great! Yes I've seen it a LOT with 4x4 instructors - "oh those electronics just switch them off". Totally agree with your comments, and yes I've never, ever found a need to disable BTC. Engine traction control and ESC yes for 4X4s, but not BTC. On racetracks I like it all off except for ABS, but that's for fun.
Excellent video as usual. I have a rear diff lock on the Pajero but in some instances, say going up a sanding incline, locking the read diff can tend to make the rear of the car go sideways.
This is the best example on the subject I could find. One question though, does turning off traction control (stability control) affect the brake lock control?
Yes it does - read this for more, and also our Everest owner interview here. motofomo.com.au/advice/ford-everest-and-ford-ranger-raptor-terrain-management-system-tms-explained/
Subscribed! That’s an excellent video. Thank you. I’m curious about a related technique I once heard about, maybe you could help me - does applying the brake pedal help if you’ve cross-axled an old 4x4 without electronic traction control? I can’t understand how it could work. Really keen on hearing what you think of it.
Thanks, yes that can work, if you look at my torque-biasing diffs video that'll explain the base principle. However, use brake traction control instead, far, far more effective.
@@L2SFBC just saw it. Thanks once again for another excellent video. I understand now how left-foot braking would work thanks to the 1:3 torque biasing effect. You do however mention that it would work better than with an open diff. My question is then how can it work AT ALL with an open diff? Can it?
Yes it can work with purely open as it stops the unloaded wheel spinning and the engine has to drive through the brakes on the other one. Not very effective though.
@@L2SFBCbut if the breaking forces on both wheels are equal, the amount of torque you win (by breaking the spinning wheel) is cancelled out at the wheel with grip. I mean, the torque you can transfer to the wheel that has grip equals the torque you created using brakes. It’s the same braking torque that’ll be stopping the wheel with grip so they’d cancel each other out
Clear explanation thanks. Robert, is there an advantage to "dragging the brakes" with an LSD equiped forby eg Nissan Patrol and if so please explain principles?? Thanks in advance CB
Depends on the LSD type. If it requires friction on a spinning wheel to work then yes. I may do a video on this concept which is the same as left foot braking an open diff car.
What is the difference between brake traction control and creep mode or are they very similar/same? Thanks for your videos. I have enjoyed learning the benefit of your experience.
I already explained in the last video it's the speed sensors that send the signal to the abs. Never is the traction control engaged at any moment. Traction control just cuts power when it detects slippage it can't apply the brakes, that's the abs doing that. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand
@@L2SFBC every automaker calls it what they want but it's the abs doing the job in this case it locks the wheels, sooo doing the opposite lol idk what it's called but my friend was calling it that last time and it was just his traction control cutting power, completely different!
@@L2SFBC honesty this is one of those things where who knows who's right lol. I'm gonna agree with you even though I hate when people call it that, it just creates confusion. But at the end of the day it is called traction control so if that's what people call it then whatever I guess.
Well, I work with automotive engineers who design and build the system, so I'm using their term. Engine traction control cuts power, brake traction control modulates wheelspin.
One of the best detailed explanations of all systems involving traction control , ive got a new Mitsubishi Pajero Sport GLX , which doesn't come with the factory diff locker , but i honestly haven't needed it , as the traction control system does exactly what you have explained it should do and has got me through some interesting terrain already.Well done !
Thanks please share 👍
Perfect! Yeah , braking a spinning wheel will do nothing for wearing out your brakes . You're stopping far less rotating force. Nothing compared to stopping thousands of lbs.
Yeah ... Some of the FJs (some years , not all years ) , when you cut on the rear locker , it turns off atrac. For my jeep , when I cut on the rear locker , bld still works on the front which is fantastic.
Which is should. TC should always work on any unlocked axle - unless deactivated on purpose.
Best demonstration of how the brake control system works I have ever seen. You use the model in an incredibly simple and smart way.. BTW: what is the specific Lego model you use?
Thanks! Please share! It is one I custom built based mostly on Unimog parts.
All the information I needed on ATRAC/lockers. Thank you.
Thanks please share 👍
You did say some other factors and the Yaw sensor is one other thing used aside from the wheel speeds and steering input angle for the vehicle to tell what’s happening when one wheel is spinning and the other side isn’t.
You got yourself a subscriber! Please continue to do what you do 🙏🏽
I think the big disadvantage is that if its going to perform close to or as well as diff locks they require very large brakes such as fitted to Land Rovers, that then limits the wheel size you can use and 20 inch rims are not a good thing off road. I think the best combination is TC and twin locked. But it’s very important the front TC works with the rear locker on to get the best of both.
Brake traction control doesn't require big brakes and therefore big rims. And yes should work with rear locker.
@@L2SFBC I know it doesn’t require very large brakes. What I’m saying is that the bigger brakes will make more on an effect and thus improving the system.
I've given up trying to tell dummies they're wrong when they think they're turning off traction control by turning off the stability control. Now I just file them as morons and keep quiet. It's the Dunning Kruger effect and most 4wders are not mental giants. I have respect for anyone who actually knows the difference between ABS, stability control, and brake traction control. There's a moron in the comments here that thinks ABS applies the brakes when in fact it cleverly does the opposite to stop a wheel from locking and skidding. ABS does stand for Antilock Braking System after all. You can't turn traction control off on a Land Rover, and why would you want to?
Wow...I didn't think people like you existed, Mike! Great! Yes I've seen it a LOT with 4x4 instructors - "oh those electronics just switch them off". Totally agree with your comments, and yes I've never, ever found a need to disable BTC. Engine traction control and ESC yes for 4X4s, but not BTC. On racetracks I like it all off except for ABS, but that's for fun.
I'm with you 100%. The fact that I'm only the second person in 12 months to give you a "like" reinforces exactly what you said.
The articulation of that 200 Land Cruiser is MAD!😱
KDSS :-)
Excellent video as usual. I have a rear diff lock on the Pajero but in some instances, say going up a sanding incline, locking the read diff can tend to make the rear of the car go sideways.
Definitely can!
Accurate content once again and very clear.
Glad to hear it!
Wow! I love this video! Best explaination!
Thanks Robert.
this is such a great video! well done
Glad you liked it! Please share :-)
Very decent system I have it in my jeep. Key is staying on the throttle let it work. My jeep seems faster to respond than some of these models
This might solve my problem. I'm going to do some more research.
The discos break traction control works well. Pitty they don't discovery much as they are mostly seen driving around the city.
Thanks great explanation!
Mercedes-Benz calls it 4-ETS. I like old W164 and X164, they were quite good offroad.
This is the best example on the subject I could find. One question though, does turning off traction control (stability control) affect the brake lock control?
Turning off stability control turns off engine traction control but not brake traction control except sometimes with a long press.
@@L2SFBC thanks for the relpy😁
Great video, except the sound volume is too low. I can't hear you... why don't you upload it again with higher sound volume ?
Sorry about that
Hi there,
I have a 2020 Ford Everest Biturbo 2.0, does this vehicle have break traction control?
Yes it does - read this for more, and also our Everest owner interview here.
motofomo.com.au/advice/ford-everest-and-ford-ranger-raptor-terrain-management-system-tms-explained/
Subscribed! That’s an excellent video. Thank you. I’m curious about a related technique I once heard about, maybe you could help me - does applying the brake pedal help if you’ve cross-axled an old 4x4 without electronic traction control? I can’t understand how it could work. Really keen on hearing what you think of it.
Thanks, yes that can work, if you look at my torque-biasing diffs video that'll explain the base principle. However, use brake traction control instead, far, far more effective.
@@L2SFBC just saw it. Thanks once again for another excellent video. I understand now how left-foot braking would work thanks to the 1:3 torque biasing effect. You do however mention that it would work better than with an open diff. My question is then how can it work AT ALL with an open diff? Can it?
Yes it can work with purely open as it stops the unloaded wheel spinning and the engine has to drive through the brakes on the other one. Not very effective though.
@@L2SFBCbut if the breaking forces on both wheels are equal, the amount of torque you win (by breaking the spinning wheel) is cancelled out at the wheel with grip. I mean, the torque you can transfer to the wheel that has grip equals the torque you created using brakes. It’s the same braking torque that’ll be stopping the wheel with grip so they’d cancel each other out
Clear explanation thanks.
Robert, is there an advantage to "dragging the brakes" with an LSD equiped forby eg Nissan Patrol and if so please explain principles??
Thanks in advance
CB
Depends on the LSD type. If it requires friction on a spinning wheel to work then yes. I may do a video on this concept which is the same as left foot braking an open diff car.
What is the difference between brake traction control and creep mode or are they very similar/same? Thanks for your videos. I have enjoyed learning the benefit of your experience.
Creep mode (Crawl Control for Toyota or ATPC for Land Rover) uses the BTC system, but under the control of a computer, not a human.
Very interesting & informative, loving the Lego element too. Is Lego now the new Mecano ?
I believe so!
RP puts in claim at tax time for large Lego purchases as work expense. ATO sends please explain, RP sends youtube video.
ATO - well played :)
@@L2SFBC lol, you might be on the wrong "tube" for that. Try "redtube" hahah
If your car does not have traction control, simulate it by pressing the brake slowly.
Yes that works to some extent
It's actually the opposite of slowing you down... It actually is like dropping the clutch ! Lol....
I already explained in the last video it's the speed sensors that send the signal to the abs. Never is the traction control engaged at any moment. Traction control just cuts power when it detects slippage it can't apply the brakes, that's the abs doing that. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand
No. What I have in the video is correct. You're confusing engine and brake traction control.
@@L2SFBC engine braking is a completely different thing
There is no such thing as traction control braking. It's a wrong term
What did I actually say?
And what do you think the correct term is?
@@L2SFBC every automaker calls it what they want but it's the abs doing the job in this case it locks the wheels, sooo doing the opposite lol idk what it's called but my friend was calling it that last time and it was just his traction control cutting power, completely different!
@@L2SFBC honesty this is one of those things where who knows who's right lol. I'm gonna agree with you even though I hate when people call it that, it just creates confusion. But at the end of the day it is called traction control so if that's what people call it then whatever I guess.
Well, I work with automotive engineers who design and build the system, so I'm using their term. Engine traction control cuts power, brake traction control modulates wheelspin.
@@L2SFBC that makes sense. I guess that's the term being used.