Electrical Issues! Renogy 2000 watt Inverter Review // Teardrop Camper Build
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- I continue working on the #offgrid electrical setup for the teardrop camper and test and review the Renogy 2000 watt inverter: renogy.sjv.io/5...
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Yes, it takes 1800W to get 1600W. Efficiency of these units is somewhere near 90%, which approximately accounts for your ~200W discrepancy. Further, when drawing so many amps, you need very large wire (like 4/0) unless it's like 1 foot (1/3 meter) or something, or your voltage drop will be too much. Test what the volts are at the inverter with a standard voltage meter when you're using high power appliances, and I'll be it's at or below 10.5v due to voltage drop over the wires, hence the shutoff. There are calculators online to get the right wire gauge.
Overkill is never bad, but can be expensive. You are way over the 80% by NEC. 2/0 is rated for 200A. 4/0 for 400A. I do agree with Texas though, BIGGER IS BETTER.
@MP-qn1jw 😂 or maybe she could just get a 24v system and cut the amps by half. Then she can use her 4 gauge wires.
Had exactly the same problem, same inverter, same circuit breaker, changed the circuit breaker to heavy duty battery isolator and 225A mega fuse...works fine . figured the 225A circuit breaker can't really handle the current and starts to fail, tripping the inverter. Thanks for your channel your video really helped
Great advice about the circuit breaker. My guess is that there are some losses in the unit which is normal (200 watts for 2000 watts is a 10% loss which seems high but might be in line). Some loads will draw 2x the normal amps during startup so the circuit breaker is probably tripping / going bad quickly. Maybe a 250A breaker would work better?
I have the same system with 2 250 watt breakers incoming on two 400 amp battery packs and it blows at 1500
Its about 5 years old, pulls 1000 watts 12 hours a day from 1600 watts of solar so I cant complain. I am adding another 600 watts of panels and a 3500 watt inverter
A breaker is not "tripping the inverter". This product is simply garbage. A 3VAC swing when under 5% load means it is just plain garbage. Maybe ok for incandescent light bulbs. So sorry.
@@j_m_b_1914 Nah, it's just garbage.
Just trying to understand how a fuse that apparently did NOT trip would in any way impact the inverter? In my knowledge a fuse is either open or closed. That it is starting to fail (“starts to fail”) is irrelevant, i.e. if it has not yet failed then it remains closed, essentially allowing full current to flow through to the inverter
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
What is the ‘ 500’ you mentioned twice in your comments?
The renogy name would suggest if they claim 2k watts it would be able to do 2k watts continuous. A current shunt would be the best way to analyze how much power its consuming. The lower the voltage the more the current and the faster the voltage goes. None the less I'm second guessing buying this inverter even though I have a few renogy items that have worked flawlessly thus far. I digress well put together video. I'm am now a subscriber thankyou for your help
Renogy looked to be a great brand, until I saw this video. I can't speak for other Renogy products, but from what I have seen in this video they suck. Or, at least their inverters do. 3VAC swing under 5% load is an EPIC FAILURE. Inverters by nature are voltage regulators, and Renogy fumbled the F_-= out of this one.
The Renogy inverter has 4000 watt momentary and 2000 watt continuous output
you arent missing 200 watts, you losing powerfactor to the fans, when you account for power factor the math works out, use a purely resistive load and see how that goes.
88% efficiency is decent for an inverter by itself. For 150a that wire gauge and length will easily result in 0.25v drop which is 35watts by itself. Non- problem. Use 2ft 4/0 awg cables without all the connections and retest.
That inverter should be 1/0 minimum for 166amps which that inverter puts out.
You cannot fit 4/0 lugs onto the Renogy terminals. My 2/0 lugs wouldn't even fit. Nor would my 1/0 marine grade lugs. Needless to say, i recommend AVOIDING all Renogy products (for this and too many other reasons to list.)
@@handoverfist7355 Ok, that's fair. Aside from Renogy using the cheapest (flimsy) battery cable terminals which NONE of my battery lugs could fit (because they were too large), ... Well let's look at that one, actually. My battery cables were both marine grade and standard lugs, sized and terminated properly for 2000w to 3000w inverters (which is the peak power delivery stated for a 2000W inverter here). So why is the CORRECT size too big? That's a question worth asking. Chinsy terminals were too small for the CORRECT cable lugs.
Ok, then there's the lying cheating company itself, Renogy. You can look at all the failures of their batteries, chargers and inverters online. It's common, TOO common. So you need good customer service with a poorly designed (cheaply designed) product. Well, Renogy tech support is useless for any specific technical issues because Renogy doesn't design their products. So no tech knows about it past the technical bulletins sent out by the Chinese company that actually makes and manufactures all these products, which Renogy and Rich Solar and many others simply have their names and brand colors added to.
I will paste this in from another reply to a question someone asked me on my costumer service experience with that company, just to avoid retyping. Read around any bits that don't apply to you:
*Renogy is the single WORST company I've ever delt with.* The 2000w inverter (and 1k and 3k) are notorious for Ground faults, premature shutdown, and not delivering their rated power (look up the real reviews on amazon, as renogy sensors the reviews on their website).
The company is impossible to get ahold of when RETURNING or referencing DEFECTIVE equipment, but quite EASY when BUYING.
I had to file a fraud claim with my credit card company to get refunded a product i did NOT order, yet was double charged anyways. This took 14 HOURS of actual phone time and 5 WEEKS before the STOLEN money was returned to my account. Even this only happened after the A.G. (Office of the Attorneys General) of my state opened a criminal inquiry, as mine was not the first case referred to them. Then Renogy was "magically" able to process my refund in 20 Minutes! What "magic" when the active case number was given to the "customer service" manager, who 5 minutes earlier said i needed to contact the accounting department as it was "IMPOSSIBLE" for customer service to refund my money without their codes! Hmmm?
I've been doing solar since the "big" PV panels were a wopping 45 Watts and cost $300 Each! Not exactly a newbie here. There is ONE and ONLY ONE company i recommend to AVOID AT ALL COSTS: RENOGY. Their electronics are cheap chinese company exports rebranded. Same products as "Rich Solar", but different colors and junkier QC and terminal hardware, etc. (I've never bought anything from that company and are not recommending them, just noting they have nearly identical products except without the junky hardware connectors Renogy specifies to boost their profits $0.05 per unit. And Orange instead of teal colors).
I would recommend anyone NOT buy ANYTHING from Renogy unless you have a lot of time and a good consumer protection attorney, as i now do.
@@handoverfist7355 I have about a dozen Renogy solar PV panels, and haven't had any problems with them so far, seems fine. I bought through the Sky God Jeff Bezos company, who handles any customer service issues. Not expecting the 20 year power output warranty to be honored, but the PV does seem fine. The QC on their electronics though... I would just not ever buy another Renogy. A person i know is still waiting for their charge controller/ inverter combi to be repaired. Renogy said it was not repairable after it was shipped to them (at his cost). So they refunded his money, right? Right? .... It's only been 4 months, give 'em a little, have some patience.
I'd definitely buy from a 3rd party who has leverage, like Lowes in your case. There seems to be no end to these Renogy stories online. It's definitely not an isolated event(s).
Some people get a good copy of whichever product, some don't. You do NOT want to deal with Renogy directly if you have a bad product from them. You need to fill out multiple request service cards online (if they ever bother calling you back at all. And even then you can't call back and talk to the same person.)
Definitely go 3rd party. Or with another company. Solar power is worth doing. You get a lot of satisfaction from energy independence with renewables. Aside from PV and wind, solar hot water heating is another great (yet often overlooked) option. It's actually a faster Return On Investment than PV or wind. Lots of plans online too.
- Good Travels.
@@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 Hmm. It would seem that your experience isn't that usual. I'd point out there are many more fly-by-night inverter companies these days also... But, too bad if, 2/0 or thicker wires can't be easily connected. Have you tried asking the company about crimp connections to larger wires? Maybe you can DIY make your own wires by using a crimper with thicker wires and their approved connectors...
I just ordered a 3,000 Renogy pure sine wave inverter. I got 2 x 230 amp hour redodo batteries, 4/0 copper cables, etc. As soon as my hydraulic crimping tool gets here, I’ll assemble it and see how it runs my new camper. It will run a microwave 6 hours, central AC about 2 1/2, but hoping much longer if it cycles. I have 190 watts factory solar, going to add another 200 watt panel too.
If you decide to go 3000 watt over the 2000 watt, keep in mind the idle current will be higher. If you can afford to lose higher amount of amps, go for it. I have 1000 watt inverter charger and a 500 watt inverter. I also at firsf had 200 watt solar panels. 500 watt served me well when using computer, tv , or stereo while idle current is only 0.7 amps while my inverter charger draws 2.5 amps but only used it for vacuum or microwave.
Your problem is the difference between an inductive load and a resistive load. Inverters and generators rated at 2000W are only capable of delivering that into a resistive load, when connected to an inductive load it may only be capable of delivering 1200W-1500W depending on the power factor. Take a closer look at the specifications of your inverter but I am pretty sure it's not faulty.
the renogy docs say that a 2000w inverter should be able to momentarily handle up to 4000w so I'd have expected inductive loads of up to 2000w to not be an issue for it
@@Matt-df6hz She didn't account for efficiency loses..As that 200 watts that vanished. Is consumed in the conversion from 12volts to 120v..
Why even the best inverters you should expect 91% efficiency conversion. In the best of conditions...
WOW! No, the problem is that inverter is garbage. 3VAC swing at 5% load. Total garbage. A proper inverter can hold the line. The advertised load capacity should be attainable no matter what kind of load you put on it. It did not say 2000 peak, or short duty, no. It says 2000 constant. While the 80% rule is to live by, this inverter's 100% is actually 80% of what it claims. So if you did not test it, like she did, you would be running at 100% when you think you are just at80%. Did someone say FIRE?!?!?!
Is there a part 2 to this video? I'm very curious now because my Renogy 3000w is coming in 5 days and now I'm worried it won't function as advertised.
Go for a 3000 Watt inverter. Manufacturers, particularly the budget ones, tend to exaggerate the actual power output by a fairly wide margin. It is also better to not run them at close to their maximum rating for very long, particularly if you don’t want the fan coming on very often.
Make sure to test your air conditioner too. A 5000 BTU A/C likely draws about 2500-3000 Watts for a few seconds during startup. Air Conditioners are quite difficult to power with inverters.
You might consider getting an inverter/charger. That would allow you to charge the batteries from AC shore power. You also get much better monitoring and far more intelligent handling of power. I swapped my inverter with a Xantrex Freedom XC inverter/charger and am thrilled with it. One of the best decisions I ever made.
You can also run multiple inverters. One small one for light loads like a laptop or charging phones, and a bigger one you can switch on when you need high power.
In my tests the air conditioner was fine but I'll probably end up with a 3000 watt unit.
I agree with Doug on the inverter/charger. Having that integrated makes this like an rv and I have upgraded my I/C every time we get a new rv. They are fabulous.
Or just buy better equipment. That inverter is garbage. 3VAC swing at 5% load, what a POS! No excuse for a 3VAC swing at 5% load, none. No exaggerations here, that is just crap. The 2kW inverter I just purchased holds 119VAC all the way to full rated load, and then some, regardless of input VDC. 13.4VDC in 119VAC out. 11VDC in 119VAC out. Proper gear. No Noogies here!
Basically, everything that really needed to be said has already been said in the comments below. I just wanted to put it in my own words anyhow. Why? Because I have time, I'm bored, and why the hell not.
I happen to be an electrician. That in no way makes me an expert on DC power. In fact, while I have a good working understanding of electricity in general, learning about DC systems for my RV has been, interesting. So, without going into loads of technical details that nobody is going to follow, there are some very general rules that DIYers can apply.
1) Once you figure out what you think you need mathematically in terms of power, there are two additional factors to consider. The Expansion Factor and for lack of better words, the "Reality Factor". Lets start with the reality factor because that's pretty straight forward.
If you determine for example that you will draw 1800 watts with every appliance on at the same time, you might decide on a 2000w inverter (because 1800w inverters are not exactly common). A general rule of thumb is to add 20% capacity. More on that in just a second, but basically, you never want to run anything ( i mean like ANYTHING, motors, generators, inverters, ANYTHING) at 100% or near 100% rated capacity. In the most general of terms, the rated capacity of anything is what something can safely run for short periods of time. In some cases, a VERY SHORT period of time before things either melt down or they otherwise shut themselves off as a matter of self preservation. Adding (as a general rule of thumb) 20% additional capacity gives you enough head room to really consume the power you want to draw. (There are other considerations, for example, you're probably never going to run every appliance at once, but you are generally building any system for a worst case scenario). So 20% of 2000w is 400w additional. Now, generally speaking (seeing a theme here), you would be lucky to find an inverter of 2400w or 2500w. I'm not saying none exist, but companies generally go from 1000w to 2000w to 3000w. So depending on the brand you wish to go with, you may find that the next step up is 3000w. Thus, once taking the "Reality factor" into consideration, your 1800w power needs will best be paired with a 3000w inverter. Hopefully you are sizing your entire system around happily supplying your 3000w inverter. Yes, everything will be somewhat bigger than it "Technically" needs to be. But that "Reality Factor", as you are discovering, works in strange ways. The power factor concerns as pointed out by a previous commenter being one such bug bear. The bottom line is, we tend to do "Easy Math" because it's easy. The reality is, there is more going on than the Easy Math shows you. That's essentially why there's a general 20% extra rule.
2) The expansion rule is even a bit more subjective, and you can handle it in two ways. So the Expansion Factor takes into account the basic truism of life. What ever it is you need today, you're going to want twice more of tomorrow. Now, I'm not suggesting that in the example above, that one should move to a 6000w inverter and the commensurate system needed to support it. That is 1 of the two ways one might go about handling this Expansion Factor. But assuming money IS a factor, the other way to handle the Expansion Factor is to face that beast UP FRONT. One would be well advised to consider what one would need to double the capacity derived in number 1 above. Anything that is particularly difficult to get to (access), or expensive to replace, one might think about biting the bullet and spending the money up front to accommodate an expanded system later. For example, buying the wire needed for a 3000w system, while cheaper than the wire needed for a 6000w system, is still expensive. And the labor cost of manufacturing the cables and installing all that wiring? If your time is like my time, the cost of doing this is VERY EXSPENSIVE, and it's not a cost you want to endure twice. You don't have to USE the extra capacity you have built in. But you CAN'T use extra capacity in the future that doesn't exist. Strategically spending money upfront can in many cases save you money, time, effort and other resources in the future.
One might additionally consider SPACE. Should you want to increase the Battery Bank in the future, do you have the room, and not just any room, but THE RIGHT room to add additional batteries? Is there generally enough room TOO expand into? And component's. Especially components that are rather expensive. Let's say a 3000w inverter is $500. And a 6000w inverter is $1000 Sure, you wanna save yourself $500 on the upfront cost. But later on when you decide you want a 6000w inverter, now that $1000 inverter is going to cost you $1600. Why $1600? Because 1) the cost of the inverter was $1000 a year or two ago. Now, that inverter is $1200. Further 2), ain't nobody want your used ass 3000w inviter unless you're gonna effectively give it to them. So, one might consider with the most expensive components, pre-emptively upgrading those from the very start. Upgrade the system with consideration of the Expansion Factor where things are going to cost you the most down the road, or in some cases, will outright prevent you from expanding at all. In the future, you can always add more solar, or a new charger or even an inverter to the system. But you will thank yourself many times over if the BULK of the work and expense to upgrade was taken care of from the start. It may be the case that you NEVER use the additional capacity you built in. Those larger wires were never used to their potential. Those more expensive components were never used to their potential. But there are always additional benefits to these things. Components can be removed and moved to a new build. The wire you left behind is a selling point to the next owner who effectively has a rig prewired to accept 6000w of power consumption.
In general terms, you're almost always better to figure these two factors in from the start (The Reality Factor and the Expansion Factor). Millions of people have learned about these two factors the hard way. If you have ever been forced to rewire an RV to accommodate some serious solar power, you will know just how difficult installing that stuff is. You don't want to have to pay twice and more so, you don't want to have to tear out the work you already did and re-install upgraded components. This is a fools errand. Obviously budgets are a factor, and you may KNOW FOR A FACT that you will never use more than 1800w in your RV. Sure, then, skip the Expansion factor. But the 20% reality factor is virtually mandatory. And that's exactly the reason your 2000w inverter is not performing the way you thought it would. It's not that the Inverter is faulty (and I'm not a fan of Renogy). The fact is, almost every 2000w inverter is going to have the same capacity issue you are running into. You don't have the headroom you need. And virtually nothing should ever be run at 100% or even 90% of it's "Rated Capacity" for more than a few minutes. With inverters especially, the "Continuous Watts" claim is questionable at best (because of things like power factor that they are not informing lay people about), or outright false advertising in the case of many "Cheap" alternatives.
I'll leave you with one more story. I recently bought a 500w 12v inverter that came with a cigarette plug and alligator clamps. The literature tells you correctly that you will only be able to draw a max of 150 watts out of a cigarette plug, which is technically not a lie if your plug is fused at 15 amp. But most cig plugs are fused at 10 amps so you are lucky if you can draw 100w continuous without blowing the fuse. And if you put a bigger fuse in, the wires in the vehicle will melt, light your car on fire and you will die in a fiery Hollywood style explosion. Most people SHOULD understand how Cig plugs work, but you would be surprised how many people don't understand why you can't get 500 watts out of the inverter when plugged in this way. But more interesting to me is the alligator clamps that come with the inverter. The instructions say to clamp directly to a battery in order to get the max watts. Well, first off, a 500 watt inverter isn't going to run 500 watts continuous for very long without either shutting off or destroying itself. But the wires on the alligator clamps aren't NEARLY large enough to run 500 watts. 41amps over 14awg wire? I don't think so jack. You want a fire in your engine compartment? Because that's how you get a fire in your engine compartment. What's the point of this story? I think in many ways, the Alligator clamps that come with this 500w 12v inverter are physical tangible evidence for why the 500w continuous rated inverter, can't actually run 500w continuous. Just like the wires that were included, the components in the inverter are not physically capable of running that much power for long periods of time without overheating. It can do it for a little while, until the fan in the inverter is no longer able to dissipate the heat being generated. Then the unit will shut down, if it has built in protection. A very well known UA-camr, (Will Prowse) has stated that most Inverters come with copper clad aluminum wire. He says very explicitly that you SHOULD NEVER USE the wire that comes with an inverter unless you are certain its pure copper. The wire that comes with most inverters is simply not up to the task of carrying the kind of power that the unit is advertised at continuously. In the same way, most inverters are not constructed to to continuously supply the rated power, or even 90% of rated power unless you install the unit in a freezer. And that is the best explanation I can give you for the 20% Reality Factor rule of thumb.
WOW, you do have time. Thanks for the info.
Love my renegy 2000 watt inverter. Used it with my kuerig coffee maker and 1850 watt hair dryer on my 12v 200 ah Weize lithium battery and works great and highly recommend.
Hope your renogy inverter still performing great ?
@Ben6n yes it still does. Actually over the winter we lost power and used our camper power for many small items.
@@brads3111 thanks for your response, im planning to get a Renogy 1000watt inverter but I’m scared because of all this negative reviews about the product.
@Ben6n if you feel doubt about it you should get a victron inverter.
@@brads3111 victron is expensive 😂 I want inexpensive reliable inverter
I too have a 2000 watt inverter in my diesel motor home and it runs everything fine. On my sailboat that was totally off grid I used Xantrex Prowatt Sw2000 - True Sine Wave Inverter and I was able to run an induction plate at full power. That being said with what you want to run (at least what you are talking about in your videos) a 3000 watt might be a better choice for you. If you read the specs most of the 2k inverters are around 1800 watts continuous and peak at or just above he 2000 watts..... That being said living off grid is about learning to manage your power. You have said you want the instant pot which I believe is 1100 watts or rough numbers 10 amps @12v so every hour you run the instant pot you will deplete your battery by 10AH add on computers lights etc... it will add up. I personally the xantrex stuff they have been around for a long time and make a quality product. I know others have said go 24 volt but in your small system that doesn't make sense.... Thank you for putting out quality content!!!! Bob
Question please, I am curious; would 10 amps @ 12v = 120 watts.. if so, an 1100 watt instant-pot would consume about 9 amps @ 120v , BUT, it would consume about 90 amps @ 12v.. So you'd need a 100ah battery to run it for one hour... is that correct, or do i have that wrong?
@@TheWVContractor yes you are correct I must of been tired when replying.
Going larger is never a bad idea. Pressing equipment to its max usual leads to problems.
OMG!! YOU ROCK!! REFUND REFUND REFUND!! Sorry I just now found you...
Below is my 2 cents, as I have returned a few myself.
-@5:06 Shunt shows 13.3 and MM shows 13.26, one in the same. It is very common at such low voltages to be off by 0.20V when using different devices to measure.
-@5:55 A 3VAC swing when under a 5% load means that thing is garbage. Hardly anyone is paying attention to the actual VAC output. VAC output is super important, and I am so glad you are looking at many test points, taking many different readings. You say you are not a pro, but sure are testing like one.
-@6:50 200W of 2000W is about a 10% loss. 85%-90% efficiency is average. Most of that loss is heat from the conversion. If it shuts off 12.8V under less than 2kW, it again is garbage. Refund PLEASE!!
In an effort to extend stays on my new (to me) boat I have been testing inverters, and batteries. The 7th inverter I tried did the trick. The output did not change under load, or low input voltage. An inverter by design is a sort of voltage regulator. The first 6, and the one you tested here, clearly did not do their job as voltage regulators. So far in my journey, Victron Energy has been outstanding. However the 7th inverter, that I decided to keep is the BougeRV 2000W with Bluetooth. I did not have the budget for the $1,200 Victron Mutli, so I had been looking at alternatives. This one a.co/d/i6uqDVU has been outstanding.
I hope some of that helps you out. Thanks for the video. I am gonna go look for some more of you. Keep up the good work. Stop second guessing yourself, you're doing great! Safe travels!!
MP, appreciate you sharing all your information here. With one of your 12V Lifepo4 batteries whats the continuous Amps you can get out of the inverter? Thanks
Thank you so much. It is in my cart with a few others but now it might get removed. Your system was to spec and all parts were of high quality. You get an A+ for Explanation. 3000 Watt requres much more so please look into that.
I've been running appliances in a large diesel motorhome since 05 off a 2000w continuous duty inverter & all works fine. 3000w not needed. My microwave draws ~160A from the 12v batteries. Either the Renogy 2kw isn't continuous duty or it's faulty
It has active cooling...And if your running high loads all the time.. The fans will stay on to protect it....I have a hunch here voltage is to low..Which cause higher amps. Why people need an amp shunt on the line side of any inverter....
I wonder what the low voltage cut off is on that inverter. Looking at the battery voltage, it dropped down to low 12V range. The Lifepo4 BMS may of cut in and done something if any of the individual lifepo4 cells within went into low voltage threshold. Infact my money is one of the cells within the battery went down to 2.5-2.0v triggering the BMS unless the inverter low voltage cutoff is set at 11V or something
Excellent review.
I was going to buy the 3000w model but will wait for now. I will try to search your videos to see if you decided differently etc.
Thanks for sharing amen,
James & Kitties
An inverter rated at 2,000 watts is required to *output* 2,000W. Period. End of statement. Beyond that, any inverter worth buying should briefly support twice the rated wattage. Best in class units sustain overloads for up to 30 seconds.
Any loss (and 10% at 12V is to be expected) is measured *between* the input and output. The output is *never* derated for losses. In short ~2,222W in (185+A @ 12Vdc) and 2,000W out (16+A @ 120Vac).
If the inverter doesn't meet its rating, return it.
Lyn, for the usage profile you outline, a 3,000W inverter is overkill. There are lots of 12V PSW inverters available (in the same price range) from very reputable manufacturers from which to choose.
Was about ready to buy the same one! If the wattages is a 2000 Watts Max realistically it is a thousand watt inverter.nice job!! go with 7000 or 8000 watt inverter. It will serve your purpose a lot more better and then you'll be able to do the things you want to do! Awesome I 'm doing the some thing!
The 2000 watt renogy has a 4000 watt surge
Its not a 1000w inverter.
It has 4000w surge.
The 2000w are real. They dont lie. See other youtube videos on what this beast can do.
Either her cables are too small, circuit that is made has some faulty parts, or its defective.
This unit draws 166amps with wiring of 1/0 to 2/0 depending how long the cable run is.
Enjoyed your candor! I'm running into same thing.
I've been looking at a Renogy 3500 watt combination charger/inverter. The unit has extra intelligence, and many different modes of operation are programmable. The idea is to install it on our campground golf cart to perform a number of duties. For one thing, the device will allow the large golf cart batteries to power our stationary trailer during any power failure. For another thing, it will allow me to charge the golf cart with solar panels on a regular basis (as well as during any extended power failures course). Finally, it can charge the golf cart batteries without attaching an external charger, and be programmed to work in Uninterruptable Power Supply mode to protect the trailer refrigerator from any power failures when we are away. With the optional small BT-2 unit, all electrical parameters can be monitored via phone app via Bluetooth. Perhaps that unit would provide what you need, AND cut down on equipment count/weight/space?
I should add that this is a 48 volt D.C. unit and battery setup. (So D.C. cabling can be ¼ the areal thickness; or almost 3 gauge or aught sizes difference...)
I use a Renogy PCL inverter/charger. This deals with shore power connection, too. My 2kW unit cost me about $600. I am now using a victron monitoring system and wish I had bought a victron inverter/charger. Of course, they do cost twice as much....
If you pay attention to this video, it is clear that Renogy does not know a F-ing thing about inverters. That thing is absolute garbage. duh.
Id say the missing 200 watts is the inverters efficiency. Unless there is some power factor not being taken into account, but the Victron shunt would be wattage of the fan Plus the inverters inefficiency.
dont forget, the type of load you are applying. If you plan to use up to 2000 watts regularly, you should get at least a 2500 or 3000. You always want wiggle room instead of constantly maxing out your system.
Go with the bigger unit, you don't want to run at the max anyway. looking pretty good! by the way, if you're ever thinking of heating or cooling the camper you will want to go way bigger on everything. the only reason you needed as big as you have is because of cooking.
Cook on gas,heat on gas
@@mrcina8621 Agreed Solar isn't cheap enough or advanced enough yet. best used for low current devices.
Hook your shunt up as close to your battery as possible and get a low frequency inverter and always go twice as big as you think you will use
The problem is currency peak when you switch on some appliance...... you need invertor between 2500-3000W to consume 2000w of energy....simplified. When you start fridge for example the currency peak can be 4x higher.....
www.renogy.com/2000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter/
The spec says continuous power at 2000W, surge power at 4000W. Even assuming motor loads, 80% derating, etc. it should still work?
@@christopherverges2328
Not if your appliance is drawing more amps than you expect.
The heat build up in an electrical system is due to amps being drawn, not voltage being used. The higher the amps, the more heat. There of course are exceptions to this, but it's a general rule to keep in mind when diagnosing an electrical unit.
You may think your within specs with your 120 volt unit at x amps, but if that unit is drawing more amps, the inverter will work harder and ultimately shut down due to heat build up.
I suspect that there is an excess heat cut off circuit to prevent damage that a higher than 15 amp draw would cause.
@@christopherverges2328 Ok, that is true. Then lets wait for another product.
Go with a 3000 watt model.
Don't design a power supply system that gives you exactly what you are going to use. Always design a buffer in the system so that should one of your appliances start to wear out, it won't take out your inverter in the process.
Oh, and don't forget to put a 15 amp circuit breaker on that unlimited power port.
Did you test the actual amps you were pulling, or just wattage?
The unit may have been shutting down due to too much amps being drawn.
I wouild say 16A but that's not a preferred value in north america (would allow another 120w of headroom)... plus you could choose a C curve breaker to allow short term overloads.
Wrong! For direct load wiring to the inverter terminal block, a 20A breaker should be used. A more typical application is to supply an AC distribution panel from the terminal block while reserving the included outlets for "convenience" loads.
Breakers in the panel then protect downstream wiring and loads.
Wow. I'm glad you let her know. 😌 really...
Yours may be faulty. Mine, the fans never run under 1000 watts. At 1300 Watt draw, mine runs the fans occasionally. At close to 2000, the fans run continuous, and I've never has the unit shut down. Having said that, I bought the 2000 to run 1000-1200 watts. If I was going to run any more, I would have got the 3000.
Hope my 2000w does as good as yours. These are highly rated. She is using 4 awg. That is rated for 2/0 to 1/0 awg. 2000w 12v = 166amps.
use a fanless dish heater, 300 watts resistive load and they put out heat
I looked at one of these two days ago to run a sump pump from my pickup to get spring water. I wound up buying an Ampeak 2000 watts inverter, 12 volts. I already have a 24 volts Aims inverter charger 2000 watts...it will do the rating. But it weighs 46 pounds too. Low frequency pure sine wave. I have it hooked to 20 AutoZone marine batteries. With two sets of #2 welding leads. The cables don't ever get warm.
Running the same 2000W. Hooked it up last week. Used 0/1 wire in a 6 foot run in my Class C.. pricey but do it right. 200 amp + fuse. Ordered a Renogy Volt meter (really worth the money as u wont always be guessing where the battery status is at .
Runs my solo Keurig with no issues. Running off two new Trojan 6 volt T105’s.
I tried a 2000 Power Drive bluetooth inverter before this one and it could not cut it with the Keurig. Happy with this unit.
Thanks for the info. I will be running the Renogy 2000w with 1/0awg for about 6 feet as well. 2 100mah batteries and solar.
Hope it works to do coffee,microwave and blowdryer. 1 at a time of course.
The 200 watts is because it needs 200 extra watts to deal with the inductive load. This is a power factor issues. Look up apparent power (kVA) vs Reactive Power(kVAr). And research inductive loads vs. resistive loads. Then research low frequency inverters vs. high frequency inverters. Then you’ll realize why the Renogy inverter was showing a 200 watt difference and could not power most of her appliances. It’s not a bad inverter. It’s a high frequency inverter(HF). And HF inverter can’t deal with inductive loads very well. She needs to purchase a 3000 watt low-frequency inverter. Maybe purchase a Sun Gold LF series 4000 watt or a Victron 3000 LF inverter. But these cost high $. And you’ll differentially need two batteries with at least 200 amp BMS.
The 200W discrepency may include the power used for the internal functions of the inverter. Often it consumes power for the drive circuits that turn DC into AC. They are only about 70-90% efficent in most cases, depending on the design of the inverters internal circutry.
I purchased an inverter from harbor freight and it's a monster. It operates everything I connect up to it and never shuts down. The renogy 3000 with model is my 2nd time with the same problem. It can barely operate a simple fan motor without shutting off
I got the 3000 watt today , have 400 wats of solar to a fogstar 560 AH battery ....first time doing this i have no clue so went overgboard on everything hopeing it asll works lol
Great video.
Those pesky Gremlins need a few hundred watts to do their job.
Thank you for your time.
8 years ago I bought a cheap 1500W aliexpress pure sine wave inverter which still works fine. I use power tools, fridge, induction hob. It only uses 150mA on standby. Renolgy is good for solar, but their inverters are rubbish. You also need to look at a real life situation like when would you ever be using all your power items at once, in the electrical world we call it load diversity.
What brand? Can l ask? Looking for something cheap
I wonder if it's overheating. You mentioned that the fans kept turning on even with no load on the inverter. Anyway, I'm enjoying these videos. I also plan to wire up a trailer to charge with solar, the truck alternator, and grid power. Though my plan is to use all DC devices from the battery. Looking forward to the next video! :)
No, it is just garbage.
Isn't on the algo-lifted top comments, so here goes a suggestion on what could be the problem with 1800/2000 Watts.
Many AC loads are partially inductive and thus their current is phase shifted compared to the voltage.
This means that the load current is at an angle (90 degrees for purely inductive load, -90 for purely capacitive) and in order to get the needed real current (x axis), the apparent current (hypotenuse) needs to be that much longer.
The reactive current (y axis) is needed from the supply, the wire needs to be thick enough to carry it, but the reactive current is not used by the load and "is sent back to the supply".
Wikipedia has decent if lengthy explanation on the subject of power factor.
Another reason the inverter shut off before its rated output was reached could well be that motors need double the rated current for startup period (until running speed has stabilised) and the inverter isn't liking that at all. Normal fuses take a double of their rated current for quite some time before tripping.
Creating AC that has stable frequency, that does not sag and doesn't contain too much harmonics isn't very easy, which is why inverters have only now became reasonablyish priced.
For those news to the idea of phase shift, the current and voltage take the shape of a sine wave. The peaks do not coincide for some loads. In that case, the delay/advance between the two is the amount that the phase is shifted.
There have been a number of reviews on this model. at 5% 1 star on Amazon. Mostly for DOA and poor customer support.
Love those solar panels. 👍
My 2000 watt inverter popped and stopped working under 1300 watts. Renogy honored their warranty
So ... an 2000w max rated power - 10% Inverter Efficiency - 3.2% loss: Cables ,conections, Shunts etc = 1736w Real max continous output power... and after that it shut off it seems normal and logical..so there is your discrepancy, because the shunt shows draw before the inverter (before the efficiency loss) and the wattmeter after the inverter (after efficiency loss) pull in 1800w but push out only 1620w.
EVERY inverter I have seen or read about under performs at bout 60-70% of it's rating. I hope you do the 3000.
The victrons seem to perform better then rated. At least mine does.
@@MrDingaling007 I'm going to test the GoWISE Power 3000W. We'll see how that goes.
Specs say around 90% efficiency. That's a loss of 100w per 1000w. That should be the cost at the battery end though and not at the inverter output. It should be able to output the full 2000w as advertised.
Wires u get with inverter are useless,u need bigger ones to get maximum use from inverter
I can say that all these stand alone inverters seem to have issues. Since I started using 3 - 5kw hybrid (solar) inverters (in my case from SAKO Sunpolo & Sunun Pro) which are supposed to power a home I didn't have any issues. The hybrid inverter gives you a charger and MPPT controller too along with WiFi monitoring. The MPPT controller will require a relatively hight starting voltage which you might not be able to achieve with a less than 1000W panel setup. But in this case you can add a separate inexpensive MPPT charger. Bit the inverters/chargers are real powerhouses. Maybe worth a thought.
The specs says there is
Voltage drop on the input is the problem. She did all the voltage measurements at the start, but didn't measure the battery voltage and compare it to the voltage at the inverter input when it's under load.
The cables from the battery are too long. Cable size is too small. Manufacturers recommend using a fuse instead of a circuit breaker, as fuses have slightly less voltage drop.
The battery will be hard pressed to run the power-hungry appliances mentioned for any reasonable length of time. Assuming the battery is 12.8V nominal - 12.8V x 400AH = 5.12kWH of which 80% is usable, 5.12kWH x 80% = 4.1kWH.
Assuming a generous DC/AC conversion by the inverter of 85%, 4.1kWH x 85% = 3.4kWH AC.
On a cold night a 1.5kW electric heater will run the battery down from full in about 2 hours.
The high demand appliances are not wise choices with a battery inverter system.
Your calculation seems sound but heat requirement are exaggerated. Electric resistive heat would not the best solution if a mostly cold climate. But she wont need a 1500w(5000btu) heater in a little teardrop. 1kw of heat would cook her like a chicken in that small space, provided it was reasonably insulated. Probably only need 500w(1700btu) of heat intermittently on a t stat. That makes electric more feasible but still a significant load.
@@daversj Exactly. I don't know what kind of insulation other people have, but when we had this house built, we spent an extra 25k to get the best insulation possible. I can heat a bedroom on a cold night with just the GPU in my computer (200 watts) while gaming. Pick a few rooms (bedrooms) and just run 250w heaters off and on when needed. Hell, stick the inverter in the house to help heat the common areas.
Good insulation goes a really long way. If I ran a 1.5kw heater in our bedroom, it would hit 90 degrees in about 15 minutes and would take hours to drop back down to the high 70s.
2 x 12vdc 200amp batteries = 400amp capacity. So way above the inverters maximum requirement.
If you can afford it go for the 3000 watt.
Please do a follow-up vid. I'm in the market for a 2000 watt inverter and am unsure which one to buy. I've seen mixed reviews on Renogy inverters.
The inverter should run at 2000w continuous is what the spec says with peak 4000w surge and your testing looked fine, yes it could be a faulty product but do consider the battery bms too as it might not be continuous, but a peak rating. Had mixed reviews over the years Renogy plus so have lot's of other brand's! (Made in China some time is ?) however victron gear seems to hold there owen. Good luck
I am currently having issues exactly the same as you are with a renogy 3000watt inverter. Renogy replaced it and the replacement is doing exactly the same thing. It will run for a short time and the turn off. It does not get hot and the fans never turn. I am not over powering the inverted only giving it a load of 1490w and it cannot handle it. Their tech support suggested returning it for my money back and buying another brand call AIMS. WOW
I have 3 of the 3000 watt Renogy pure sine inverters and never had troubles even while testing the latest to 2800 watts for an hour. Here's one doing 2000 watts. I also have an Aims 4KW and a 6KW inverter/charger and they work well. I don't know why you had troubles. This unit in the video has run every day for 6 months.
ua-cam.com/video/NYpczRYDFJQ/v-deo.html
What is your gauge wire and are your circuit breakers blue seas or bussman? Cheapo circuit breakers can cause inverters to do odd things.
I plan to use this with direct solar to DC. If clouds block the sun and there isn’t enough solar power, it will switch to AC power. When the sun provides enough light again, will it automatically switch back to using DC power?
I had the same inverter running in my cabin. I have two one year old deep cycle batteries connected. Only lights can be run. 32" LED television will run for few minute then alarm at inverter goes on. When I check, it has about 43% left. Very odd.... and not what I was expected....
You said that the input voltage "shouldn't be a problem". You should have measured the input voltage directly at the inverter input terminals while under maximum load before condemning this inverter. . An excessive Voltage drop may the cause of your shut down.
That missing 200 watts was probably was probably turned into heat. I may be wrong, but I think the only way to fix that is to modify your system to use a higher volts and less amps.
I have one and it blows at 1500 watts
The 200 watts is because it needs 200 extra watts to deal with the inductive load. This is a power factor issues. Look up apparent power (kVA) vs Reactive Power(kVAr). And research inductive loads vs. resistive loads. Then research low frequency inverters vs. high frequency inverters. Then you’ll realize why the Renogy inverter was showing a 200 watt difference and could not power most of her appliances. It’s not a bad inverter. It’s a high frequency inverter(HF). And HF inverter can’t deal with inductive loads very well. She needs to purchase a 3000 watt low-frequency inverter.
@@nthenet My inverter hates the vacuum as much as my cats do.
Watts is less important for inverters than VA. Victron inverters are rated in VA which allows for power factor. So for example my fridge draws 70-80 watts ish but the inverter shows 120-130 VA. VA is important because this in effect the power going through the inverter which is why they never put out as many watts as they say. You can think of the difference between watts and VA as power that is not being used but is being pushed and pulled from the battery. The extra current has to be handled by the inverter which means it has to be deducted from the inverters rating. That explains why Victron says a 1200VA inverter is rated at 1000 watts. Power factor is watts divided by VA. Power factor is all to do with whether the current and voltage waves are happening at the same time or if they become separated due to driving difficult loads like motors, transformers etc (things that use coils of wire).
I have gone through many new inverters thinking something was wrong…turned out after all kinds of isolation tests….It was my cheap circuit breaker that got stuck in closed position but indeed tripped however not visible from looking at it.( I had the same types she has until I switched to more expensive brand)
Can l ask which more expensive brand circuit breaker you purchased??
Thank you
Interesting video. I bought the 1000W model, and with a 850W toaster it shuts off after a minute with a beep (overheat), so I'm having to downgrade the toaster to a 700W one. It seems the headline figure of 1000W is incorrect.
Check your wire lengths, wire gauge and battery/power source strength. It sounds like you could be having voltage drop below the shut off point either due to resistance/losses (long or thin wires) or due to an undersized battery/powersource.
Many inverters dont live up to what they advertise on the box.I cant use my Reliable 3000 Watt pure Sign Wave inverter because it cant start my 6000 btu A/C very sad. I had to substitute a Harbor Freight 2000 Watt inverter and now i can run my A/C .The only problem is the H.F inverter is not a pure sign wave so the digital A/C makes a slight humming noise. Now i was thinking on buying the Renogy 2000 Watt Inverter,which should handle the load w/o the humming.
My experience is that anything with a motor creates problems with standard, high frequency inverters.
Always specify a larger unit, batteries and solar array than you think you need.
The idle current and losses are higher and the cables are expensive, but it will do what you want it to do.
Fridges suck.
What was your solution? I have the very same problem right now with my 2000 watt Renogy inverter….
Did you get the "new edition" ?
I'm about to buy it and not sure anymore...
Your very knowledgeable, I am just starting to put together a solar system and this is very helpful. Where did you get those battery disconnects? Thank you
Thanks. I think I will still buy it but then the 3000W model since I want it to run 2000W without problems.
Of course the 2000W inverter should run a 2000W load, but yeah, for these kind of prices I am not complaining.
You can buy a nice (and better) Victron but it is also often not rated for 2000W continous when you are talking about 20 minutes or so. Temperature is a big factor here as well.
My renogy 3000w inverter trips just shy of 2000w. It’s a nightmare. I’m returning it.
@@dustinbyerley7226 I actually bought the 3000W version of Renogy and it is working fine for me. I have run a 2000W watercooker/boiler, and a 2000W induction cooktop on it (from Ikea) and it is working fine! Once I even had the things running at the same time accidently and it was pulling 3500W, but I guess that was luck because in most cases it would trip
This is all at the 230v version in Europe, I must add.
So far I am pretty happy for 300 Euro, powering all this stuff.
Thank you, good information. You may have saved me a lot of time and money.
I agree with the 24V suggestion. Since you have already 2 huge batteries on hand. But you might have to change more of your charging setup.
WTF? Then you have to convert the 24VDC to 120VAC AND 12VDC. WOW! Can I sell you an electrical system?
@ 2:27 2000W/12.8 = 156A is not correct that is because the inverter has efficiency rating, 85 ~ 90% is typical, that means at 90%eff. the input power (power drawn from battery) to the inverter will be higher than 2000W, it will be about 2222W so at 12.8V the current draw from batteries will be 174A.
Also the surge rating that claims 2 x the contentious rating are usually meaningless because most of these inverter can supply peak power at around 30 ~ 50 mSec (1 cycke of 60Hz AC is about 17 mSec), so if the load such as compressor may have surge duration in 100's of mSec then the inverter will not be able to handle it. The transformer based inverter usually has surge rating in seconds which can easily handle compressor/inductive load.
Compressor can easily have 3 ~ 7 times higher power than running Wattage rating when it starts up.
You should get a Clamp-on Amp meter with peak hold reading so you can see what the peak current draw is when it starts up.
Definitely should have a higher rating for loads like that. A 2000w would only be good for a fridge and maybe a couple fan.
Hello very good video. The fans on the inverter are noisy.
2 x 3000w renogy inverters failed me within 6 months. Just ordered a giant and will eventually just go Victron as I am 100% offgrid and need reliability.
You have to account for your wire positive and negative 4 awg wire run too.
What was the end result of this? you were talking about your unit and you might try a new one, what came of that?
Your intelligence and beauty is unparalleled. Thanks for sharing 🍸
Ditch that thing and spend the extra money on the Xantrex Prowatt SW2000 2000W True Sinewave Inverter. It's designed for continuous use of 1800 watts. High wattage appliances. ..And it stays cool. As it has both active and passive cooling..
And yes I install this system all the time. As your not the only one that finds out the hard way. How cheap built some of these are..
Good Luck
Check online instructions. Frequently using plugs in front may not give you full inverter power (have had a 2000 watt inverter that would provide less than 1800 watts to plugs in front). To get full power you'll need to hardwire into the back connections. I apologize if you did this, it looked like you were coming off the front (edit note that you did this- outlet does need to be rated for amps, some household outlets are rated for 15a max). I also recommend trying thicker single wires if you want the full power (make sure any circuit breakers are blue sea or bussman). Temperature also plays into max watts you can get from an inverter. It could be that it just doesn't quite cut it and the inverter is faulty or you have very short surges you can't capture on your equipment. There's a lot of trouble shooting points. Regardless, wiish you best of luck with your next inverter.
100% agree. She should try running 2/0 gauge to the batteries and 8/3 from the hard wire connections rather than the outlets
Hi you need 3500 watts inverter then it will do the job for you. that's what I'm using, and it works for me!!
When your inverter alarm sounded and it shut down which of the front LED lights illuminated, the yellow or red? Thanks
I would go with the 3000 yes it will use more power but pay close attention to your power plan .
Most quality inverters are about 88 to 92% efficient, so it's perfectly normal to have more watts going into the inverter than coming out. The watts lost through inefficiency are dissipated as heat, that's what the fans are for. If it were possible to make a 100% efficient inverter, no cooling would be necessary.
Mine lasted exactly fourteen months from the moment it was professionally installed. The warranty for this product is one year. I contacted Renogy customer service bc an inverter is supposed to last something like twelve to fifteen years according to current design standards. Renogy informed me after asking me for photos that my unit certainly had malfunctioned but since it was out of warranty they cannot help me. Read that again if you are considering this for your van or camper. Mine is at least the third unit I’ve heard of wearing out before the fifteen month mark. It’s almost as if they are made just good enough to put outlast the warranty by a bit and die. I’m making a video about this product and the customer service of this company soon. For $400 more I could have had a Victron that would have lasted fifteen years. Now I’ve cost myself an extra $700 for this unit that is of poor design. Don’t buy this product and limit how much Renogy equipment you install in your build bc they will not stand behind their products if you encounter issues.
I run mine at 750 watts draw for 12 hours a day for 3 years. However it will blow at 1500 watts surge if my refer goes on. If I unplug my freezer I can add my AC with full sun on panels to about 1250 watts and it runs ok. I would go to a 3500 - 4000 for my next one though
2:27 been searching a few videos and all the "experts" keep spinning around,and there u said plain as day than you 🤗
Saw your Instagram post. Can't wait for the follow-up
I am doing a similar mod in our motorhome here in the uk, I opted for the Giandel 3000w pure sine wave and am yet to get one that does half the job, i have had 2 now off amazon and they both act just like yours - apart from the fact i hardly had anything connected drawing much - less than 1000w and they beep and shut down, i have just printed off the returns label to send the second one back.
Great thanks plenty of info.
I have the 1000 watt model. I find that I’m also loosing an extra 200 W. I also have the same issue with the fan running and hot air coming out.
That should have no problem running 2200w long term
Are those small leads from inverter 12 volt, Not 120?
does it automatically switch back to dc power when available?
Thank you for the explanation on the D/C in and A/C output.
You said the 3 outlets have 15amps, but I need to know how many amps the direct wire outlet port is. Is it 15,20,25amps???
Thank you.
the max you can get is 2000 watts, so maybe 16.6 amps. 2000 watts / 120 volts = 16.6
very interested.Dear one question.Because in my place there are many lightings .in case some parts are burned ,even PIC chips ,will you sell me to replace them???
Err, near the beginning you were listing some of your more energy hungry items and if you run your Insterpot, Cooktop and Heater at the same time, you're going to hit 4500 watts! You need to work out what you might be running at the same time and then get the correct size unit..... in other words if you want the insterpot + cooktop + heater together your converter needs to be able to handle it or you will need to be constantly turning other items off just so you can make a cup if coffee. It might need a bigger unit and another battery or you need to find appliances that require less power 👍
I bought one also and I had to return it. I put only 100w load and the unit tripped.
Nothing is wrong with it, I suspect that is us 2000W max and not constant load
Nope. 2000W continuous/4000W peak.
Something is wrong with the inverter. The continuous power is 2000 watts and peak is 4000 watts. I have one and it will run at 2000 all day. I even have the 700 watt one and it works fine. Check the cables are they the right size check to see is all the nuts are tight.
You should look at upgrading to at least a 24v system. 2000w at 13.3v is 150A! That's about half a volt drop at least across the wires alone. Or about 5% loss in the wires. The internal resistance of the batteries will work against you at higher amps as well. You are looking at at least another half volt drop from battery resistance. Going to 24v will half the current and be a quarter the loss In the wires and be easier on the batteries.
Lyn's already constructed a 12V system, so moving to 24V is just really bad advice. Also, volts and amps, in and of themselves have nothing whatsoever to do with voltage drop. Voltage drop is determined by the size and length of conductor. Period!
And "the internal resistance of the batteries"? Are you kidding me?
Yes, doubling the voltage halves the current, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation Lyn's encountering with the inverter.
@@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt moving to 24V would not be difficult. She has 2 batteries that can be changed from parallel to series. Her charge controllers are 24V capable. And that would also halve the amps on the charge controller, meaning she would only need 1 of them.
Yes you are partially right, size and length of conductor are the only big contributing factors to the wire RESISTANCE. But current does very much have a lot to do with the voltage drop. V=IR
The internal resistance of the battery does have a lot to do with how much current it can take. The manufacturer of the batteries she is using does not list what the internal resistance is, but it is typically about ~10mOhms for a good 200AH lifepo4 battery. With 2 of them that is 5mOhms of internal resistance.. and at 150A, that is 150A*0.005ohms=0.75Volts, which is not an insignificant amount of voltage when you only have 12V. But if you don't want speculation, then the manufacturers website says they operate optimally at around 0.2C discharge rate. And for 200AH battery that is only 40A, or 80A with them in parallel. However, all of that to say it doesn't really matter if you operate them in series, or parallel, they are still undersized for 2000W. She would need another 2 batteries to be around a 0.2C discharge rate.
BTW I do know what I am talking about as I am an Electrical Engineer. Please don't spread misinformation if you do not know exactly what you are talking about as voltage drop does have a lot to do with the current you are putting through a conductor. That is exactly why power transmission lines operate in the kilovolts is to reduce the current through the wire and therefore reduce the power loss in the wires.
@@Cracked1ce Firstly, you dodged my conclusion that your original comment had nothing to do with the issue Lyn encountered with the inverter failing to deliver on its rated capacity.
Instead, you attempt and fail (again) at powering up with EE credentials.
Point by point:
• "moving to 24V would not be difficult" - This is your opinion. One that's fundamentally flawed in a number of ways.
Yes, her chosen charge controllers are 24V capable. However, that's only a single factor in a multi-factor problem.
#1 - Moving to 24V requires the addition of two equalizers.
#2 - It also requires the addition of one or more buck converters to supply regulated 12V for powering existing equipment, devices and/or appliances.
#3 - The existing charge controllers are already undersized. The Lynac batteries are to be charged at 0.2C to 0.5C continuous. That's 80A to 200A (1S2P). Collectively, at STC, the charge controllers will push a maximum of 65A.
At 24V (2S1P), the battery could charge at between 40A and 100A. So, no, the current wouldn't be halved. The battery would take 65A for the ~5 hours (C*1.5 for LFP) required to charge from 20% SoC (what Lynac considers their floor) to 100% SoC (assuming STC).
#4 - Lyn plans two separate PV arrays (1S3P * 2). Therefore, one charge controller would *not* be eliminated, as you contend.
• "V=IR" - How could I possibly forget Ohm's law? I must be some kind of idiot who spreads misinformation!
The answer is: I didn't and I'm not.
While you're _technically_ correct, you neglected the minor detail that the issue with the inverter has nothing to do with the amount of input current at the nominal 12V.
You were also flat wrong with your initial comment, "That's about half a volt drop at least across the wires alone. Or about 5% loss in the wires."
I'm not sure where you came up with that, but your calculations are off. Way off.
Two 4AWG cables paralleled are equivalent to a single 1AWG cable; good for 211+A in this application. Well within the generally accepted 25% safety margin.
Further, for a 1M run from battery to inverter, the total loss is approximately 0.92%, or 0.12V, not the 5%/0.5V you contend. (Assumes 150A at a nominal 13.2V)
All this, by the way, well within the generally accepted tolerance of
@@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt she has not even purchased any 12v appliances as I have seen so far. There are plenty of 24V appliances. And even if she was set on 12v appliances you can tap it off of one battery. Or even do a center tap 12v and 12v to balance the 12v loads. Or just have a separate battery for the 12V appliances. She already has an extra charge controller that could be dedicated to the 12V system. There are a lot of possibilities and you are just stuck in your fantasy land thinking that nothing was wrong and it's just the inverters fault for not living up to unreasonable expectations. Marketing numbers are just that... Marketing numbers run in lab scenarios under ideal conditions, something of which is never seen in the real world.
These batteries are designed to be run in a series configuration as well. They have a built in BMS that allows them to operate in series so you do not have to have a separate BMS or equalizers.
If she is returning the inverter anyway, might as well upgrade to 24V that is going to have less loss overall and be easier on all of the components involved.
I have real world experience with high power DC systems, and I have built many off-grid and on-grid solar systems. Nuclear ≠ Electrical