This one is something I still think about.... A little while back, a hurricane hit the west coast of Florida. Devastated the area it made landfall and caused quite a few deaths and millions in damage. A few days later, here on UA-cam there was a story posted about a woman who found her wedding ring that she had lost some time earlier, after her home had been destroyed. Or rather, BECAUSE her home had been destroyed as the ring was apparently somewhere she never would have found it otherwise. The comments of that story and the woman herself thanked god for finding her ring. "The lord has bleesed you!" "God is good!" "Thank you god for finding my ring!" And so on and blah blah as you could probably imagine. All of this... thanking god for finding a ring... A F'ING RING MAN! While standing in the ruins of your home and attending the funerals of your neighbors with thousands of others displaced with everything they had... gone. These people are delusional to a magnificent extent. Not ever realizing the hypocrisy they are spouting. I will never forget that lesson.
Always has made me angry when something like this happens and one person finds a bible open to a certain page, and they claim it is the hand of god, when there are many dead and people with no homes left. It just beyond belief. Tell that to the family of people who have died, and the people who have lost everything they own.
@@stephanieguile9072 I mean, I have seen religious people in similar situations go on to say the victims must not have been in god's good graces, or even that he likes the other person more. Never underestimate the ability of the religious to become ever more ugly in defense of their beliefs.
@@jeremysmetana8583 I know...leaves a really bad taste in the mouth. And the christians claim "he " is a loving god. Only loves some and not others??? Try and explain that to parents of a child with cancer. Try and explain to the families and loved ones of the hundreds of thousand killed in the 2004 tsunami, the 2011 tsunami, the earthquakes in Haiti and Turkey, China etc... the covid pandemic. This is not a loving god;this is a mass murderer. These people make me want to puke.
@@stephanieguile9072 gawd is ALWAYS good. Anything bad is obviously Satan, Or Gays, or Atheists or other marginalized groups. To me it just proves the impotence of their gods.
I had a bad accident in Wyoming in 2008, after which someone tried to say "god saved you." I immediately said, "I'm so grateful to the engineers who designed my pickup truck with the ability to handle a double roll-over down a 20 foot embankment!" Those engineers deserve SO much thanks from me, as do the engineers who designed the slopes and grades around I-80, and the company that provided a tiny patch of viable cell phone service so I could call for help, and the police and ambulance who came to take me away from the side of the freeway during a developing blizzard. "Oh, but you could have died! Most people in an accident like that would have been dead!" Yeah, I could have died. If most people would have, I was the statistical outlier who didn't. But more likely, the engineers that reduced the odds of my death by a HUGE amount, and I had repacked the contents of my truck so nothing large and heavy could crash into my head as everything did two flips--I was the "heads" on a coin flip, and those happen ALL THE TIME. An advantageous and existent godd would have prevented the accident and its years worth of impacts on my life.
My car does not move unless the seat belt is fastened. I was encouraged in this decades ago by an man with whom I was infatuated who had survived three near-fatal wrecks by being buckled in. Subsequently, I survived two. The voice of "God"? Not likely. The individual's name would ring a bell to those familiar with some notorious legal cases in the last century -involving a high ranking military officer, who turned out to be a satanist! He got removed from my acquaintance quickly -- but the advice was still good. By the way, my thanks also to those engineers and car interior designers, and the urgent care people with the ambulance, and the medical staff at the hospitals.
@@dianahill5116 Funny you have said that, I do agree though, But I have been hit by three different drunk drivers in a 5 year period. And I was able to "walk-away" without any injuries each time. Figure those odds. And this was before seatbelts were required to be used! My cars were totaled & towed from the scenes. I don't think any god was standing around and watching out for me, otherwise why did he let it happen in the first place?
I recently heard an expression I loved, talking about right-wing Christian anti-abortion activists: "They want to sit around at home doing nothing and feel like they're saving the world." Armchair superheroes FTW.
I was once such a staunch Christian, that I could have been persuaded to commit an act of terrorism had that been a tenet of my faith. We were taught that life was just a prelude to eternal life, thus devaluing earthly life. When I finally gained free access to the Internet and to philosophy classes in college, it led to my gradual de-indoctrination. Many people don’t understand what you said, Seth, about the 9/11 terrorists being victims as well as perpetrators, but I do.
As Christopher Hitchens once said: In saying "there, but for the grace of God, go I", what is REALLY meant is "there, by the grace God, goes somebody ELSE"...
Believers will always keep making lame, half-assed excuses to validate their beliefs to themselves. As a Christian once told me- " it makes her feel good."
Here is my social media profundity for the day. The definition of "respect" has morphed into an entitled attitude of deferential submission. Mutual respect has been replaced with the instant blanket accusation of "disrespect." No truer example exists than when Xian nationalists use the imaginary victim card to justify their brand of Fascism to resolve their issues. If an American politician wears their religion on their sleeve, they will HAVE to make a choice to be true to their belief or true to protecting the Constitution. All too often these days, those people choose to remove the Constitution rather than face the hypocrisy of their positions.
It was years ago I read something in regards respect so please forgive me, if I butcher it a bit, I try to retain the spirit. Respect has two meanings, colocially it's the treatment of others as a human being. The other is a stance of reverence. Yet, when christians demand respect to give respect, what they mean is they want you to kiss their ass so they at least treat you like a human being.
If one is on the roof of a 30-story burning building and flames and smoke are rapidly approaching, I certainly have free will as to what I do next. I can jump and most likely die as I hit the ground. Or, I can allow the flames to engulf me as I wait for help that will never come. Christians freely admit that God can not intervene because i have this free will, yet they pray for deliverance from this predicament.
I had a coworker tell me his daughter was saved by God when he put her cancer into remission. Sure, she had medical treatment, which he says is because God gave doctors the knowledge to treat it. Oh really? Why did he wait so long to give us this knowledge? Change discussion.
@@rockpadstudios More like they refuse to be challenged -- to think about this might shake their belief and they are desperate to retain that above all else. They expect you to be Christian as well and to nod and coo "Thank God!" and when you go off-script they don't know what to do.
Thinking Atheist, Seth, you do such great work! Love and admire you! I'd be the biggest financial supporter if I wasn't beyond broke. Partly due to dog getting diabetes. Yep, our service dog, so phenomenal to us, we are now his seeing eye people. Life is ironic. With fraud and hackers abounding! 👍💙💖🥰✌
The Vacation Bible School thing kills me. I was Pagan for 20 years. We had to turn away teenagers or just point them to resources and tell them to look into it themselves because if we even had a chat with someone under 18 about Paganism we were insidious creeps corrupting the youth. But these people are picking up grade schoolers in a bus off their front lawn and indoctrinating the living heck out of them day in and day out and everyone's just alright with that. For my first 3 ish years of Paganism I was a teenager and I resented the hell out of churches for basically locking me out of the faith I felt fit me better while burying me in Bibles.
@ 34:24 Thank you, Seth! I'm done with Sixty Minutes. 🤦♂️ WTF were they thinking? How did they expect that fiasco to play out? We live in interesting times. 🇺🇸
Ever notice that though "Jesus is beyond our pithy insect brain" in his "portraits" he always looks like Thor right before he went all fat, drunk, and self-pitying in that Avengers movie?
Hi, thank you. I've only recently found this channel, atheist experience and several others, but you've helped me articulate what my beliefs have become over the last 20+ years. I really appreciate these, they've given me more perspective than what I've been able to parse on my own.
I can remember my teacher when I first went to school telling the class to put our hands together to pray. Many of us would look each other wondering what it was all about. We were only four and many of us had never been told about God or Jesus. This was London, shortly after the second WW. No one cared and no one still dones unless they're not born in England.
used to think that unconditional love is the best. now i can only see it as dogmatic refusal of facts that easily ends up in abuse. unconditional love is like blind faith. we may think it is unconditional love bestowed upon us by someone special, especially if we've been mistreated and misunderstood. calling it unconditional actually sells it short, as love needs to have limits, for best interests of all involved.
Yeah, I thought "Mr Skydaddy" was supposed to be on the job up on his magic white cloud looking over humanity. So, why isn't he preventing these disasters or calamities that happen? Answer: There is no god.
I went to a catholic elementary school and more than once we tested the nuns by throwing down a stick in the hallway and they walked over it as if it weren't there, so we always called them "hover nuns".
Just read an article that said Oklahoma got some terrible tornados on Wednesday, April 19. Hope you are safe and sound Seth. Please let us know when you can. I understand many are without electricity. BTW great podcast as usual. Thanks so much for your dedication.
El nońo is a recurring year of “extreme” weather. The el niño year comes back in a pattern. I think a 5 year pattern. It was quite the party line a few years ago
And they sing; "Oh it's real, it's real, Oh I know it's real, praise god the doubts are settled, for I know, I know, it's real". This song only reveals their deeply felt doubt, and constant reinforcement is required for their own self deception. A false mantra.
a couple months ago a boat was struck by lightning in the gulf of mexico near st pete and after being towed back safely some of the fishermen thanked god for the epirb satelite beacon that saved them!!!!?
Heaven is perfect with no fee will & no one who truly knows God would choose to not go to heaven... But then... God's FAVORITE angel was like 🤔 "nah I'm out"... And a THIRD of God's perfect creation went with him. 66% success rate is a D my friend. A big ol D he used to screw his next less than perfect creation that he expected a better outcome from. 🤔🙄🙄🙄
@KingJustice98 Your parents typically don't run your adult life no matter where you are in the world. It’s not the same thing. Especially seeing as how they don't start killing everything once they get upset.....
@@rs72098a lot of religious parents surely treat their own children as slaves , demand total obedience and even kick out those kids who didnt fit in their strange views on how a person should be.
Free will is a concept that bioethicists are doing a lot of work about at the moment. We have choices... yes... within limits, and these limits mean that free will is over emphasized and may indeed be a false concept. Religions require it, because it sells the concept of "deity"... but if the deity doesn't exist, well, the whole thing falls apart.
Yeah i read dr swaab “we are our brain” on this. And in all honesty i found it dumb and insulting. In this case i have to agree,were i normally dont, that the scientific method has its flaws and can not reach. Or lets say the scientific method used here.
The free will argument doesn't work for me. If the god created everything, it created our choices. When I play The Sims, I download and install a no jealousy hack, because I don't want my Sims fighting. I don't allow the "choice" of being jealous. A god, if it existed, could limit our choices to only things that are beneficial, and we'd never know it, because no other choices would exist.
Freewill is crushed and destroyed by the cause and effects of a deterministic universe. We can enjoy the illusion of Freewill and we can suffer from our choices, but those are the only choice that we could make, because of all the things that occurred up to each point of decision. Freewill is an illusion but it doesn't matter anyways.
I'm probably closer to Dennit's stance here. Free will is an illusion -- and what's your point? Walls are not technically solid (space between atoms), and the sun does not rise and set (rather the earth spins). But we experience all these things as reality, even if we know in a legalistic sense these are either likely a sham or an oversimplification it is the unavoidable way we experience our day to day reality. There is almost certainly no free will, but we don't experience it that way. I'm unaware of the nebulous undercurrents driving my choices, and even though I know a wall is 99% empty space I'm not going to be trying to run through one any time soon.
Good rant, Seth (about thanking god after a car wreck). It's a pattern of abuse, isn't it? Imagine for a second that this is...a dog groomer, for example. They claim to 'love' dogs, but will arbitrarily harm the dogs, help them, be indifferent to them, allow them to suffer while claiming it is 'for their own good', take credit for the good and shift responsibility for the bad, all while being distant (absent) and silent. Oh, and occasionally throw the dogs INTO THE FURNACE for breaking rules. If it was their dog groomer abusing their dog this way, they would fire them immediately, calling it negligent and unprofessional. But when it is their god abusing THEM, they excuse it by calling it 'mysterious'. They would be better to their own dog than they are to themselves because of the bad ideas they have been trained with. In regards to your 'victims of bad ideas' point, I have taught some kids who were truly awful; bullying, violent and abusive. Then you meet their parents, who are WORSE. That kid is the victim of a bad environment and upbringing AND they are also harming other kids as a result of it. You can feel sorry for them at the same time as doing everything you can to prevent harm. It's easy. Because that kids is BEING HARMED and DOING HARM often on the same day. So oppose the HARM.
The free will argument goes out the window when you realise that god created angels. Angels knew god existed, interacted with him and could apparently still have the free will to choose to disobey.
If god have no power over free will , then he is not all powerful. If we can't diviate from God's plan, where the freedom at? Free will - the ability to make choices unimpeded, is impossible with or without god, considering the deterministic nature of reality. It is indeed the stupidest idea there is
My mom is a fundamental Baptist and she has no idea that I’m atheist. One of the most harmful things she had said to me was how she thanked God that the roses that grow in the garden are so beautiful. I water the roses with flower food, I scrape away the fertilizer and replace it every spring/autumn. I place new mulch around the base of them. I give them fungicide when I see black spot or powdery mildew. I spray them with bug repellent. But she thanks god; not her own child who cares for the roses. Luckily the things I do aren’t usually for her; I love my plants and especially my roses but those comments really did sting the most. Well those and how she hated gay people, not knowing or caring that her daughter is gay. I think she’s the reason why I’m so emotionally distant from people.
There are 2 thorns of christian speak: 1) thank god, not the people who work hard to fix things b) repent to god, not say sorry to the people who they have wronged. Its ALL about the imaginary "friend" NOT the people who surround them... Ironically that jesus they talk about, supposedly said, "Whatsoever you do to the lease of my brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." Yet the words of the beLIEvers are exactly like the crown the Roman soldiers placed on "the savior". The lack of self awareness of people due to the veil of religion is not just sad and hurtful, but dangerous.
Want more fun? Ask Christians why, if God hates sin, he allowed sin to exist? Then you will get a passionate defense of sin and how wonderful it is, and how horrible life would be if we couldn't sin.
Go on asking them if he knew the holocaust and similar would happen and armed with this knowledge created the souls exactly that way knowing their free will would necessarily lead to this and gave it a thumbs up. Or, if he was ignorant of that and based on his weakness was impotent to the effect of the psyche, world, and free will interacting - because he didn't know. Together with your statement: That's A Check Mate.
A cop isn't sitting in a car when it gets demolished..... Police officers working for the government come out and thank God for intervening on behalf of the police officer.... Seth points out that God could have intervened in other ways that make more sense. Christian response - God can't intervene................ 🤦🤦🤦
At least Jehovah's Witnesses are clever enough to not use the free will excuse. Talking snake, original sin, blah blah yes but at least I didn't have to grow up having to argue free will.
Surprised they don't try saying the Japanese weren't doing their kamikaze acts into something religious, but they didn't do that for any religious reasons
Younger generations slant secular, but who taught it to them? It didn't happen in a vacuum, it's something that has been going on for a long time. Most of the people I was religious with back in the mid-'nineties identify as atheist now (people now in their forties and fifties). Who created the environment in which my 22-year-old son never felt pressured to be religious? I did. I feel like throwing it all at the feet of kids as if they were born enlightened is a good way to get hits and likes, but it's disingenuous and possibly pandering. When you ignore the subtleties, you're thinking in black and white, and in my opinion that's just the same as magical thinking. On the other hand, if you understand the trends, if you admit it's complicated, when you set the pandering aside, you may find the results you want are duplicatable.
You make a great point. Props to our generation. I have teenaged kids and made the decision early on to teach them to be skeptical and secular. I live with my extended family of Hindu-theists and have to actively debate or confront them when they try indoctrinating my kids. I keep up with science so I can continue to engage with my kids who now bring up multiverses and time travel.😅 It has not been easy. We are the generation that decided enough was enough.
My form of activism is sharing ideas on how to make the world better. Recently I like to share this idea: I have found that the best way to deal with friends and family with opposing views, is to write down the two opposite ends of the views; Then REFUSE to DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then say you are only willing to discuss compromise that can achieve common goals. Whenever a subject drifts back to stubborn debate, start back at the first step. People can only convince themselves. It is also helpful to avoid personal demonization which is very popular now. This is very helpful with politics. My friends and family always want to focus on certain politician's behavior, so I always redirect to party policy which is actually the way legislation really works. I then point out how power is about 50/50 and how this requires compromise in order for either side to get anything they really want.
God is supposed to do Armageddon not humans making it happen is it that they believe God is taking so long? Or do they really believe he doesn't exist Lol
Please help me out with the Sarah Silverman quote in the intro. Source? TY! It is so clear. God's internet connection lagging. The holly spirit wifi provider sorry for the inconvenience. I think that the only real place for the public to make politics is when we vote. It may looks lazy but do you respect others voting rights and accept when your side loose? Light religious woman pastor is the worst of all. The pinnacle of cherry picking. For me this is a thinking / reasoning ShannonQ does where she argue against religiousity... a sa mental illness. lightening the problem of serious religiousi... or mental illness
Do I 'respect' others that vote for known liars who want to take away other American's rights? Not really. Do I go around shooting them? No, but the reicht does. (Kyle Rittenhouse and the jerk TX gov Abbott is trying to pardon after he shot and killed a protestor) And it's no wonder that 'conservative Christians' are confused about what's moral. Is it right to kill a bunch of actual babies? (not a fetus which, BTW, OT YHWH is fine with forced miscarriage) I assume you'd say no. But YHWH does in the Exodus story and the flood story. They'll excuse that with either God can do anything he wants or well, those were 'bad people', they owned slaves (which is exactly what the Hebrews did). Or 'it was a different time ' (which never made sense to me bc why would it be different then if the same God in the current era was the one that existed back then) In the OT, YHWH threatens people with their lives. There is no afterlife. In the NT, Jesus threatens with a hell in the afterlife. So 'conservative Christians', instead of admitting their holy book of sexist mythology is flawed, they stay permanently confused and hypocritical all the time. No, I do NOT respect their vote, especially when it's done to take away my rights as a female. Or it's done to take away other American's rights bc they are if a minority race, or if they're somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. Or any other reason.
Funny the ideas we have of heaven and hell didn't come from the bible but ppl believe it anyway bcuz it sounds good and bad. You won't have free will, you won't be with friends and family, they are not looking down on you, you will HAVE to Worship and praise God and Jesus and kiss their ass 24/7 for eternity and won't have time for anything else. Heaven is just a place where god lives nothing more and nothing less.
sin began in heaven according to the bible.. first the so called devil and some angels betrayed god and was cast out BEFORE creation.. so where is the free will there right.. and why is it our fault
rs etc: That is the extent of your response? You ENTIRELY miss the point AND you try to deflect from the obvious nonsense spouted by Christians. How wide of the mark do you have to be in order to overlook completely the fact that Seth's point here is that Christians focus on the one thing they can find to be positive about while ignoring the much bigger picture? In other words, the inverse of your sentiments. I can only conclude that you are some kind of Christian who knows that Seth is right, but desperately wants to look the other way.
This one is something I still think about.... A little while back, a hurricane hit the west coast of Florida. Devastated the area it made landfall and caused quite a few deaths and millions in damage. A few days later, here on UA-cam there was a story posted about a woman who found her wedding ring that she had lost some time earlier, after her home had been destroyed. Or rather, BECAUSE her home had been destroyed as the ring was apparently somewhere she never would have found it otherwise. The comments of that story and the woman herself thanked god for finding her ring. "The lord has bleesed you!" "God is good!" "Thank you god for finding my ring!" And so on and blah blah as you could probably imagine. All of this... thanking god for finding a ring... A F'ING RING MAN! While standing in the ruins of your home and attending the funerals of your neighbors with thousands of others displaced with everything they had... gone. These people are delusional to a magnificent extent. Not ever realizing the hypocrisy they are spouting. I will never forget that lesson.
Always has made me angry when something like this happens and one person finds a bible open to a certain page, and they claim it is the hand of god, when there are many dead and people with no homes left. It just beyond belief. Tell that to the family of people who have died, and the people who have lost everything they own.
drives me crazy
@@stephanieguile9072 I mean, I have seen religious people in similar situations go on to say the victims must not have been in god's good graces, or even that he likes the other person more. Never underestimate the ability of the religious to become ever more ugly in defense of their beliefs.
@@jeremysmetana8583 I know...leaves a really bad taste in the mouth. And the christians claim "he " is a loving god. Only loves some and not others??? Try and explain that to parents of a child with cancer. Try and explain to the families and loved ones of the hundreds of thousand killed in the 2004 tsunami, the 2011 tsunami, the earthquakes in Haiti and Turkey, China etc... the covid pandemic. This is not a loving god;this is a mass murderer. These people make me want to puke.
@@stephanieguile9072 gawd is ALWAYS good. Anything bad is obviously Satan, Or Gays, or Atheists or other marginalized groups. To me it just proves the impotence of their gods.
I had a bad accident in Wyoming in 2008, after which someone tried to say "god saved you." I immediately said, "I'm so grateful to the engineers who designed my pickup truck with the ability to handle a double roll-over down a 20 foot embankment!" Those engineers deserve SO much thanks from me, as do the engineers who designed the slopes and grades around I-80, and the company that provided a tiny patch of viable cell phone service so I could call for help, and the police and ambulance who came to take me away from the side of the freeway during a developing blizzard.
"Oh, but you could have died! Most people in an accident like that would have been dead!" Yeah, I could have died. If most people would have, I was the statistical outlier who didn't. But more likely, the engineers that reduced the odds of my death by a HUGE amount, and I had repacked the contents of my truck so nothing large and heavy could crash into my head as everything did two flips--I was the "heads" on a coin flip, and those happen ALL THE TIME.
An advantageous and existent godd would have prevented the accident and its years worth of impacts on my life.
Theist also have no explanation for crimes: murder, rape, incest, pedophilia, stalking, embezlement, burglary, and such.
I agree. The automobile industries have greatly reduced deaths, because of safety designs.
____
Also, using a seatbelt
My car does not move unless the seat belt is fastened. I was encouraged in this decades ago by an man with whom I was infatuated who had survived three near-fatal wrecks by being buckled in. Subsequently, I survived two. The voice of "God"? Not likely. The individual's name would ring a bell to those familiar with some notorious legal cases in the last century -involving a high ranking military officer, who turned out to be a satanist! He got removed from my acquaintance quickly -- but the advice was still good. By the way, my thanks also to those engineers and car interior designers, and the urgent care people with the ambulance, and the medical staff at the hospitals.
@@dianahill5116 Funny you have said that, I do agree though, But I have been hit by three different drunk drivers in a 5 year period. And I was able to "walk-away" without any injuries each time. Figure those odds. And this was before seatbelts were required to be used! My cars were totaled & towed from the scenes.
I don't think any god was standing around and watching out for me, otherwise why did he let it happen in the first place?
@@dianahill5116 yep. Engineers are the invisible safety components we take for granted; the seatbelt is added on as an intelligence test.
Everyone is born atheist.
Religion has to be taught.
Atheism doesn't have to be taught.
I recently heard an expression I loved, talking about right-wing Christian anti-abortion activists: "They want to sit around at home doing nothing and feel like they're saving the world." Armchair superheroes FTW.
I was once such a staunch Christian, that I could have been persuaded to commit an act of terrorism had that been a tenet of my faith. We were taught that life was just a prelude to eternal life, thus devaluing earthly life. When I finally gained free access to the Internet and to philosophy classes in college, it led to my gradual de-indoctrination. Many people don’t understand what you said, Seth, about the 9/11 terrorists being victims as well as perpetrators, but I do.
"I have angry-typed this world into a more reasonable place" is a great quote 😂
As Christopher Hitchens once said: In saying "there, but for the grace of God, go I", what is REALLY meant is "there, by the grace God, goes somebody ELSE"...
Believers will always keep making lame, half-assed excuses to validate their beliefs to themselves. As a Christian once told me- " it makes her feel good."
Here is my social media profundity for the day.
The definition of "respect" has morphed into an entitled attitude of deferential submission. Mutual respect has been replaced with the instant blanket accusation of "disrespect." No truer example exists than when Xian nationalists use the imaginary victim card to justify their brand of Fascism to resolve their issues.
If an American politician wears their religion on their sleeve, they will HAVE to make a choice to be true to their belief or true to protecting the Constitution. All too often these days, those people choose to remove the Constitution rather than face the hypocrisy of their positions.
It was years ago I read something in regards respect so please forgive me, if I butcher it a bit, I try to retain the spirit.
Respect has two meanings, colocially it's the treatment of others as a human being. The other is a stance of reverence.
Yet, when christians demand respect to give respect, what they mean is they want you to kiss their ass so they at least treat you like a human being.
Yeah I do not want to spend all eternity in a golden Borg cube with my lips press permanently up against the colon of the invisible sjy wizard.
Lol. Perfect analogy. 😂
@@amypieterse4127 A terrifying, creepy, and disgusting analogy, but yes, quite perfect!
Bruh! No thanks for the image 😶
If one is on the roof of a 30-story burning building and flames and smoke are rapidly approaching, I certainly have free will as to what I do next. I can jump and most likely die as I hit the ground. Or, I can allow the flames to engulf me as I wait for help that will never come. Christians freely admit that God can not intervene because i have this free will, yet they pray for deliverance from this predicament.
I had a coworker tell me his daughter was saved by God when he put her cancer into remission. Sure, she had medical treatment, which he says is because God gave doctors the knowledge to treat it. Oh really? Why did he wait so long to give us this knowledge? Change discussion.
yeah the blank stare - they simply are not challenged on the nutty beliefs.
@@rockpadstudios More like they refuse to be challenged -- to think about this might shake their belief and they are desperate to retain that above all else. They expect you to be Christian as well and to nod and coo "Thank God!" and when you go off-script they don't know what to do.
Thinking Atheist, Seth, you do such great work! Love and admire you! I'd be the biggest financial supporter if I wasn't beyond broke. Partly due to dog getting diabetes. Yep, our service dog, so phenomenal to us, we are now his seeing eye people. Life is ironic. With fraud and hackers abounding! 👍💙💖🥰✌
The Vacation Bible School thing kills me. I was Pagan for 20 years. We had to turn away teenagers or just point them to resources and tell them to look into it themselves because if we even had a chat with someone under 18 about Paganism we were insidious creeps corrupting the youth. But these people are picking up grade schoolers in a bus off their front lawn and indoctrinating the living heck out of them day in and day out and everyone's just alright with that. For my first 3 ish years of Paganism I was a teenager and I resented the hell out of churches for basically locking me out of the faith I felt fit me better while burying me in Bibles.
@ 34:24
Thank you, Seth!
I'm done with Sixty Minutes. 🤦♂️
WTF were they thinking?
How did they expect that fiasco to play out?
We live in interesting times. 🇺🇸
"In heaven there is no beer - that's why we drink it here."
Cute ! Never heard that 😊
Yep - old Polka. Next line is "And when we're gone from here, our friends will be drinking all the beer." (Everybody!)
Love this podcast.
Seth is a genius at sarcasm, which I consider to be a demanding art form. Love it!
If free wil is the argument than why thank god at all? It reeks of the belief that he did intervene
Oh come now, asking Christians to be less hypocritical is like asking the sea to be less wet.
Agreed. The free will aurgument sounds like we are in control.
Ever notice that though "Jesus is beyond our pithy insect brain" in his "portraits" he always looks like Thor right before he went all fat, drunk, and self-pitying in that Avengers movie?
Praying won't save you from nothing, start to think about it!
Seth I love your speaking. You are cut out for this. You crack me up but what u are saying is very logical
Hi, thank you. I've only recently found this channel, atheist experience and several others, but you've helped me articulate what my beliefs have become over the last 20+ years. I really appreciate these, they've given me more perspective than what I've been able to parse on my own.
I can remember my teacher when I first went to school telling the class to put our hands together to pray. Many of us would look each other wondering what it was all about. We were only four and many of us had never been told about God or Jesus. This was London, shortly after the second WW. No one cared and no one still dones unless they're not born in England.
The reason god does nothing is because god is a fictional character that is the real truth about god .
Seth when are you writing your next book? I need more good reads from you ❤.
" I have angry-typed this world into a more reasonable place!" -- lol, you're awesome =D
used to think that unconditional love is the best. now i can only see it as dogmatic refusal of facts that easily ends up in abuse. unconditional love is like blind faith.
we may think it is unconditional love bestowed upon us by someone special, especially if we've been mistreated and misunderstood. calling it unconditional actually sells it short, as love needs to have limits, for best interests of all involved.
Yeah, I thought "Mr Skydaddy" was supposed to be on the job up on his magic white cloud looking over humanity. So, why isn't he preventing these disasters or calamities that happen? Answer: There is no god.
Correct answer: Too busy finding car keys or parking spaces.
As they used to say in the commercial, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.❤❤
Serh is great its just crazy to me he had never heard of El Niño.
I went to a catholic elementary school and more than once we tested the nuns by throwing down a stick in the hallway and they walked over it as if it weren't there, so we always called them "hover nuns".
With the utmost respect...you sound like a clear minded, free thinking Paul Harvey...and I'm here for it...
That`s why Prayers are so Funny ,
"Don't trip about all that horrible stuff bro,
I gotch u,
when you die." - Geezus
thank you for this!
Just read an article that said Oklahoma got some terrible tornados on Wednesday, April 19. Hope you are safe and sound Seth. Please let us know when you can. I understand many are without electricity. BTW great podcast as usual. Thanks so much for your dedication.
El nońo is a recurring year of “extreme” weather. The el niño year comes back in a pattern. I think a 5 year pattern. It was quite the party line a few years ago
I thought it was El Nino and La Nina
Hey he (god) couldn't even stop the planes from hitting the WTC, but give me a mountain (no prob)
Or.... and this might anger the Christians... he DID help the planes hit the WTC. Who knows who's got the right theology?
And they sing; "Oh it's real, it's real, Oh I know it's real, praise god the doubts are settled, for I know, I know, it's real". This song only reveals their deeply felt doubt, and constant reinforcement is required for their own self deception. A false mantra.
And now introducing, The Toothless Nuns!
God’s actions are limited by free will? How can a supreme being be bound by anything? Especially something it created?
a couple months ago a boat was struck by lightning in the gulf of mexico near st pete and after being towed back safely some of the fishermen thanked god for the epirb satelite beacon that saved them!!!!?
Amazing the hypocrisy didn't even occur to them what they were saying!
Calvin Candy makes for an accurate god
Heaven is perfect with no fee will & no one who truly knows God would choose to not go to heaven... But then... God's FAVORITE angel was like 🤔 "nah I'm out"... And a THIRD of God's perfect creation went with him.
66% success rate is a D my friend. A big ol D he used to screw his next less than perfect creation that he expected a better outcome from. 🤔🙄🙄🙄
We can’t second quess the lords will. We will find out
"Agents of Awfulness" where can I buy the Records of this great Band ?
Would we have free will if it wasn't a fallen world?
You can't have free will while being slave to a deity.....
You can obey your parents and follow their home rules without being a slave right??
@KingJustice98 Your parents typically don't run your adult life no matter where you are in the world. It’s not the same thing. Especially seeing as how they don't start killing everything once they get upset.....
@@rs72098a lot of religious parents surely treat their own children as slaves , demand total obedience and even kick out those kids who didnt fit in their strange views on how a person should be.
About a year ago we had the same thing happen... the truck killed 4 police officers... the god person must not like Australian police... 😕🤣🤣🤣🤘🤘🤘
A minister who became less about theology and more about humanity...
You mean Jerry DeWitt and Dan Barker?
The church should probably read some John Watson and his Determinism ideas.
Free will is a concept that bioethicists are doing a lot of work about at the moment. We have choices... yes... within limits, and these limits mean that free will is over emphasized and may indeed be a false concept. Religions require it, because it sells the concept of "deity"... but if the deity doesn't exist, well, the whole thing falls apart.
Yeah i read dr swaab “we are our brain” on this. And in all honesty i found it dumb and insulting. In this case i have to agree,were i normally dont, that the scientific method has its flaws and can not reach. Or lets say the scientific method used here.
The free will argument doesn't work for me. If the god created everything, it created our choices. When I play The Sims, I download and install a no jealousy hack, because I don't want my Sims fighting. I don't allow the "choice" of being jealous. A god, if it existed, could limit our choices to only things that are beneficial, and we'd never know it, because no other choices would exist.
Freewill is crushed and destroyed by the cause and effects of a deterministic universe.
We can enjoy the illusion of Freewill and we can suffer from our choices, but those are the only choice that we could make, because of all the things that occurred up to each point of decision.
Freewill is an illusion but it doesn't matter anyways.
I'm probably closer to Dennit's stance here. Free will is an illusion -- and what's your point? Walls are not technically solid (space between atoms), and the sun does not rise and set (rather the earth spins). But we experience all these things as reality, even if we know in a legalistic sense these are either likely a sham or an oversimplification it is the unavoidable way we experience our day to day reality. There is almost certainly no free will, but we don't experience it that way. I'm unaware of the nebulous undercurrents driving my choices, and even though I know a wall is 99% empty space I'm not going to be trying to run through one any time soon.
@@grigorigahan I agree 👍🏻
Good rant, Seth (about thanking god after a car wreck). It's a pattern of abuse, isn't it? Imagine for a second that this is...a dog groomer, for example. They claim to 'love' dogs, but will arbitrarily harm the dogs, help them, be indifferent to them, allow them to suffer while claiming it is 'for their own good', take credit for the good and shift responsibility for the bad, all while being distant (absent) and silent. Oh, and occasionally throw the dogs INTO THE FURNACE for breaking rules. If it was their dog groomer abusing their dog this way, they would fire them immediately, calling it negligent and unprofessional. But when it is their god abusing THEM, they excuse it by calling it 'mysterious'. They would be better to their own dog than they are to themselves because of the bad ideas they have been trained with.
In regards to your 'victims of bad ideas' point, I have taught some kids who were truly awful; bullying, violent and abusive. Then you meet their parents, who are WORSE. That kid is the victim of a bad environment and upbringing AND they are also harming other kids as a result of it. You can feel sorry for them at the same time as doing everything you can to prevent harm. It's easy. Because that kids is BEING HARMED and DOING HARM often on the same day. So oppose the HARM.
Christian logic: "God does not interfere with our free will! But we thank god for helping us."
How did god get the police officer out of his car WITHOUT violating his free will?
El nino is the little boy. Baby god?
Okay then, free will on earth, then they pray for the lord to step in and mitigate the consequences of said, free will... alrighty then. 🥴
The free will argument goes out the window when you realise that god created angels. Angels knew god existed, interacted with him and could apparently still have the free will to choose to disobey.
If god have no power over free will , then he is not all powerful. If we can't diviate from God's plan, where the freedom at? Free will - the ability to make choices unimpeded, is impossible with or without god, considering the deterministic nature of reality. It is indeed the stupidest idea there is
I doubt Heaven exists
21:12 😂😂😂
My mom is a fundamental Baptist and she has no idea that I’m atheist. One of the most harmful things she had said to me was how she thanked God that the roses that grow in the garden are so beautiful. I water the roses with flower food, I scrape away the fertilizer and replace it every spring/autumn. I place new mulch around the base of them. I give them fungicide when I see black spot or powdery mildew. I spray them with bug repellent. But she thanks god; not her own child who cares for the roses. Luckily the things I do aren’t usually for her; I love my plants and especially my roses but those comments really did sting the most. Well those and how she hated gay people, not knowing or caring that her daughter is gay. I think she’s the reason why I’m so emotionally distant from people.
There are 2 thorns of christian speak: 1) thank god, not the people who work hard to fix things b) repent to god, not say sorry to the people who they have wronged.
Its ALL about the imaginary "friend" NOT the people who surround them...
Ironically that jesus they talk about, supposedly said, "Whatsoever you do to the lease of my brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." Yet the words of the beLIEvers are exactly like the crown the Roman soldiers placed on "the savior". The lack of self awareness of people due to the veil of religion is not just sad and hurtful, but dangerous.
Want more fun? Ask Christians why, if God hates sin, he allowed sin to exist? Then you will get a passionate defense of sin and how wonderful it is, and how horrible life would be if we couldn't sin.
Go on asking them if he knew the holocaust and similar would happen and armed with this knowledge created the souls exactly that way knowing their free will would necessarily lead to this and gave it a thumbs up. Or, if he was ignorant of that and based on his weakness was impotent to the effect of the psyche, world, and free will interacting - because he didn't know. Together with your statement: That's A Check Mate.
_I give in to sin_
_Because you have to make this life liveable_
-- Depeche Mode, Strange Love
If the answer is free will, why did he get involved to save the cop? that is intervening! if that was the best god could do he sucks at his job.
A cop isn't sitting in a car when it gets demolished..... Police officers working for the government come out and thank God for intervening on behalf of the police officer.... Seth points out that God could have intervened in other ways that make more sense.
Christian response - God can't intervene................
🤦🤦🤦
Why did the cop park in that stupid way?
hello
😂😂😂😂😂
At least Jehovah's Witnesses are clever enough to not use the free will excuse. Talking snake, original sin, blah blah yes but at least I didn't have to grow up having to argue free will.
Surprised they don't try saying the Japanese weren't doing their kamikaze acts into something religious, but they didn't do that for any religious reasons
Actually, I think the Japanese had Zen Priests train the pilots so that they could fly their planes on suicidal missions. That was very controversial.
Younger generations slant secular, but who taught it to them? It didn't happen in a vacuum, it's something that has been going on for a long time. Most of the people I was religious with back in the mid-'nineties identify as atheist now (people now in their forties and fifties). Who created the environment in which my 22-year-old son never felt pressured to be religious? I did. I feel like throwing it all at the feet of kids as if they were born enlightened is a good way to get hits and likes, but it's disingenuous and possibly pandering. When you ignore the subtleties, you're thinking in black and white, and in my opinion that's just the same as magical thinking. On the other hand, if you understand the trends, if you admit it's complicated, when you set the pandering aside, you may find the results you want are duplicatable.
You make a great point. Props to our generation. I have teenaged kids and made the decision early on to teach them to be skeptical and secular. I live with my extended family of Hindu-theists and have to actively debate or confront them when they try indoctrinating my kids. I keep up with science so I can continue to engage with my kids who now bring up multiverses and time travel.😅 It has not been easy. We are the generation that decided enough was enough.
My form of activism is sharing ideas on how to make the world better. Recently I like to share this idea:
I have found that the best way to deal with friends and family with opposing views, is to write down the two opposite ends of the views; Then REFUSE to DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then say you are only willing to discuss compromise that can achieve common goals. Whenever a subject drifts back to stubborn debate, start back at the first step. People can only convince themselves.
It is also helpful to avoid personal demonization which is very popular now. This is very helpful with politics. My friends and family always want to focus on certain politician's behavior, so I always redirect to party policy which is actually the way legislation really works. I then point out how power is about 50/50 and how this requires compromise in order for either side to get anything they really want.
God is supposed to do Armageddon not humans making it happen is it that they believe God is taking so long? Or do they really believe he doesn't exist Lol
Please help me out with the Sarah Silverman quote in the intro. Source? TY!
It is so clear. God's internet connection lagging. The holly spirit wifi provider sorry for the inconvenience.
I think that the only real place for the public to make politics is when we vote. It may looks lazy but do you respect others voting rights and accept when your side loose?
Light religious woman pastor is the worst of all. The pinnacle of cherry picking. For me this is a thinking / reasoning ShannonQ does where she argue against religiousity... a sa mental illness. lightening the problem of serious religiousi... or mental illness
Hokiurmix, what?! That didn't make sense. 😂
@@oregoncoastbeachcomber2060 That?
Do I 'respect' others that vote for known liars who want to take away other American's rights? Not really. Do I go around shooting them? No, but the reicht does. (Kyle Rittenhouse and the jerk TX gov Abbott is trying to pardon after he shot and killed a protestor) And it's no wonder that 'conservative Christians' are confused about what's moral. Is it right to kill a bunch of actual babies? (not a fetus which, BTW, OT YHWH is fine with forced miscarriage) I assume you'd say no. But YHWH does in the Exodus story and the flood story. They'll excuse that with either God can do anything he wants or well, those were 'bad people', they owned slaves (which is exactly what the Hebrews did). Or 'it was a different time ' (which never made sense to me bc why would it be different then if the same God in the current era was the one that existed back then) In the OT, YHWH threatens people with their lives. There is no afterlife.
In the NT, Jesus threatens with a hell in the afterlife. So 'conservative Christians', instead of admitting their holy book of sexist mythology is flawed, they stay permanently confused and hypocritical all the time.
No, I do NOT respect their vote, especially when it's done to take away my rights as a female. Or it's done to take away other American's rights bc they are if a minority race, or if they're somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. Or any other reason.
@@hokiturmix the last paragraph seems to be missing words or your thought wasn't finished. It doesn't make sense.
@@oregoncoastbeachcomber2060 Trivialize. Do you know the argumentr of shannonq why religion is not a mental illness?
Funny the ideas we have of heaven and hell didn't come from the bible but ppl believe it anyway bcuz it sounds good and bad. You won't have free will, you won't be with friends and family, they are not looking down on you, you will HAVE to Worship and praise God and Jesus and kiss their ass 24/7 for eternity and won't have time for anything else. Heaven is just a place where god lives nothing more and nothing less.
sin began in heaven according to the bible.. first the so called devil and some angels betrayed god and was cast out BEFORE creation.. so where is the free will there right.. and why is it our fault
nobody has proven a free will, let alone a god given one. religious lies rely on things sounding as if true..but in fact baseless assertions
With so many issues going on the world, THIS is what you're upset about?? A police department thanking God?? Seriously get a life.
rs etc: That is the extent of your response? You ENTIRELY miss the point AND you try to deflect from the obvious nonsense spouted by Christians.
How wide of the mark do you have to be in order to overlook completely the fact that Seth's point here is that Christians focus on the one thing they can find to be positive about while ignoring the much bigger picture? In other words, the inverse of your sentiments.
I can only conclude that you are some kind of Christian who knows that Seth is right, but desperately wants to look the other way.
I don't know if your purposely missing the point or what