Is consciousness an illusion? | Sean Carroll and Lex Fridman
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Sean Carroll: General ...
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GUEST BIO:
Sean Carroll is a theoretical physicist, author, and host of Mindscape podcast.
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Guest bio: Sean Carroll is a theoretical physicist, author, and host of Mindscape podcast.
Perceiving an illusion requires consciousness. As Max Planck, the father of quantum physics, stated: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."
This is basically a derivation cogito ergo sum...
@@Havre_Chithraa world that persists outside mind is no world at all.
If consciousness is an illusion, then what is perceiving that illusion?
The subconscious
Carroll will not go down the rabbit hole that LexF wants to. Have seen this played out with other guests that are strictly rational and won't engage. Lex's issue is that he want to go to the metaphysical, hoping for some 'other' whether that be ET's, something better/bigger than the Big Band, Sentient AI -- the strictly rational find nothing to discuss.
Definition of metaphysical:
In modern philosophical terminology, metaphysics refers to the studies of what cannot be reached through objective studies of material reality.
He wants to delve deep into it, thinking also he'll find an answer, but I don't think there's any.
Caroll don't waste his time on this, but Fridman still has this young naivety around the big questions. It really feels naive for him in such a high-quality podcast. He doesn't need to do it.
@@Walexo45 Yeah...
It comes across nearly as an act of voluntary childishness sometimes.
Lex is endearing on so so many levels, and I think climbing into of this mode of naïve quizzicality could be useful for a period of a conversation, playing devil's advocate to prod the discussion forward. But it doesn't need to be a mode to play for a whole podcast.
It is a viable way to illuminate or to illustrate the absurdity of it all, that of a single human mind that can conceive of the massive interplay of everything, at infinite zoom levels, not least things like Hilbert Spaces and the Many Worlds theory. As was said in another part of the podcast, asking "Why is there something rather than nothing?" being a different quality of a traditional 'why' question, one that cannot be answered from the context of the fact that there is indeed 'something' in the first place to ask that question!
It's fun to go there, the naivety, but I think he does more of it than he needs to.
Maybe others get more out of it than me...
Illusions are experienced by ... what?
Its illusions all the way down
Sensors
@@RaphaelDartigues sensors don't "experience" anything
@@norbu_la both illusions and experiences are perceived reality. When you touch fire it is the skin that burns (not your brain).
@@RaphaelDartigues why would you display your stupidity to the world? Or are you making a sarcastic joke?
To able to understand the external world you first have to understand who who wants to understand it. Somebody who understands himself has a big advantage on this. And this is pure science as it is based on observation, contemplation , look at you’re mind to find out the nature of the mind, the tool science is using to understand the external world. So it seems science is using a tool that they don’t understand or know what it actually is. If they don’t know what it in essence is how can they use it properly.?
It's not that deep.
The difference between an "illusion" and something that "represents" external reality, is the idea of a correlation to that external reality (i.e., by the consciousness/representation), including, in that correlation, what other minds say they can see, hear, smell, logically prove, etc. If consciousness didn't correlate to an external reality well, it couldn't do anything useful for us in real time, while we're out and about "existing". This is not to say that your consciousness can't be private too; it's only saying that a really important part of it is involved in the correlation to a "real" world. People who are "out of their minds" are typically uncorrelated.
Guy probably has some decent insight. But anyone who asks a listener "right?" to affirm their own assumption is annoying.
"if people had replaced their belief in god with that of a mechanistic universe, they would have done just as well" Brave assertion by Carroll which I don't believe for a minute
Coke bottle is empty…but, if I imagine it to be full then I, too, am full of it…
NO, that would prob mean that you yourself would also be an illusion so ask yourself that question.. consciousness is a form of energy
he truly is trying hard to put meaning to our existence.
Quite the opposite, actually. A mechanistic view of reality removes meaning.
I find this happens when we discuss belief in God. When Carroll says that had ancient peoples abandoned their belief in God and focused on something else, they would have done just as well. I'm not sure that's the case. There is an entire morality that goes along with religion that underpins societies actions and lead to the creation of laws and societal contracts. Without those, we don't have a functioning economy, etc. The U.S. constitution would never have been written had their not been a religious morality. And that constitution inspired the rest of the world's democratic governments. So yeah, I disagree.
That's just plain wrong and ignorant. The writers of the constitution were heavily influenced by French enlightenment philosophers. To claim it inspired the other democracies is just unbelievably ignorant as claiming it came from some religious morality. It's actually the opposite, sectarian progress was made once humans dropped religious morals.
What are precognative dreams?, how and why do they occur?
The purpose of the brain is to make predictions.
I BELIEVE THAT IT'S REAL, AND I AGREE, AND PLANET EARTH IS NOT THE MOVIE THE MATRIX.❤
“The Mapper is the Territory.”
Life and Consciousness is Eternal,
Consciousness is 100% Electric,
Consciousness is mirrored in the Rainbow,
Stuff-side, the Motion-Ocean,
is a Real Illusion, caused by Consciousness,
Forced by the Life-Desire.
He must have meant a mirage rather than an oasis
Oasis means spot in desert, where water is found. Oasis can be an illusion or mirage
Yes, Mirage or Fata Morgana! Oasis is something 100% Real! :)
No, he meant oasis.
He meant to say (a mirage of an) oasis, but language doesn’t have to be explicit at all times. The fact that you were able to infer “mirage” proves this. The context of communication often adds more to meaning than the words themselves. Grunt and point to a rock, and we will know exactly what you are labeling.
Oasis works. Especially if you got friends in low places. 😉
This guy learned to replace “umms” with lengthened words
What is the observer if consciousness is an illusion?
A computer
@@RaphaelDartigues Yes indeed, but not a digital computer, not a computer based on algorithms, not a so called quantum-computer but The Quantum itself. Space-time is the result of its endless computation.
Thinking that if so, no biggie. Not like we can do anything about it. Enjoy life. Be kind. Always. Out lies and evil. Always. Have fun out there.
have fun being out there
What if evil is the fun in life?
What is evil? What is goodness even? Does these concepts exist independently of human experience?
If you go through life believing in Santa Claus, you live in an illustration. But your life may be richer, and more fun. So who is to say you are wrong? God may be the missing link, the spark that separates us from the apes. A divine force in Evolution.
1. "We dont know what the world is at a deep fundamental level"
3. "Belief in god is an illusion that has been proven wrong"
see #1
Seems to me that to conclude that there is no god and that that particular 'illusion' has been proven wrong you would NEED to know what the world is at a deep fundamental level. He is so sure of what he admits he doesnt know. I am always amazed at how really smart people ignore the fact that we are on a progression and this is just a slice in that progression. They forget about the people 200 years in the future who will look back at Carroll and wondering how such an idiot could ever exist. There seems to be a lack of humility in this regard. He starts out by claiming that we know nothing about the world at a deep fundamental level and then turns around and claims that god has been debunked because we know better than that now.
Yeh I immediately question someone’s ability to approach these topics without bias when they make comments like that. I can understand it though as we are human and it’s easy to see how humanities representation of religion could leave a stain on one’s impression of the whole concept of God, but to say that god is an illusion that has been disproven is arrogant.
It's impossible to "prove" that God doesn't exist. We can't even agree on a definition of God.
People 200 years in the future probably won't be people
@@suncat9 google
@@suncat9 God is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity that exists beyond space/time, outside of the scope of material physics and is responsible for the creation of the reality we all experience. Nearly everyone agrees on this. What people don’t agree is whether God should be personified or not. God is not meant to be comprehended or measured by the human brain because it permeates everything.
Yes it is ! Confirmed by Ramana Maharshi and my personal journey 😂❤ true but not true take it for what you will.
Lex things imagining something can make it happen. So lots of people imagine God, sooooo Gods is just around the corner. Keep imagination alive!!
My imagining of a purple, one-eyed unicorn makes it no more likely that such a creature exists. To a certain extent, imagination DOES usher certain MATERIAL things into existence, but you have to actually construct that thing. He said as much. Imagination alone doesn't affect odds or likelihood of something existing though.
@@toddsmith5715 You just gotta make it happen, you lazy? But first, imagine...
@@TheVigilante2000 That was a pretty lazy response. The point is, imagining something alone doesn't increase the odds of that thing existing. It's rather elementary and thus not really debatable.
👀
These questions have been answered a long time ago.
Enlighten me , by whom? And do you know these people...? I truly don't believe they are answered because they are deep Q's and we are still pondering them till this day
Answered, yes. Proven, no. Anyone can give answers, but nobody could give a definitive truth since these questions are not an objective question since we lack the capacity to give empirical evidences. So best we can do is to continue using these questions as debate points so that more and more people can provide more approaches to look at it.
And the answers change. This is called progress.
Only consciousness is not an illusion, everything else is...
"Consciousness is the source of all. Consciousness is the stuff existence is made of. But there is no source of consciousness itself. Existence consists of consciousness. Existence itself is made of consciousness. And consciousness has always been here, is here, will be here. It can be asleep, it can be awake, but it is consciousness all the same. Consciousness itself is the very foundation of the whole existence. Nothing is deeper than that. You cannot go beyond consciousness. But if you want to experience what is the source of all, go deeper into meditation, and you will find that there is nothing deeper than meditation. You will find that everything comes out of consciousness. Even matter is condensed consciousness, in deep sleep - perhaps in a coma." - Osho 🔥
Lexington has small hands
If Homelander were an intellectual his name would be Sean Carroll.
the answer is yes, but again, most people cant accept that because it doesnt sound profound enough for their self-centered ignorance.
I think one day he will have to answer to the god he so confidently denies.
religion: surviving on threats since forever
who mentioned religion?
Same for you if you picked the wrong god, rules or religion to follow.
@@kingsleykronk3141 I can’t force you to understand
So will those “believers” who ignore the message of chapter 25 of Matthew…
"replace their belief in God with a mechanistic view of the universe.." says the guy who has no idea what makes the mechanics of the universe work. The hubris to say that God is an illusion without knowing even what is under the sea let alone what exists in the universe is laughable.
We could do like the Orks in 40K do: If they believe something is real, then it IS REAL.