lol, I love her blank stare when he's explaining that his gun is on the plane that he wasn't able to board, probably unlocked, headed to God knows where. Nice job TSA. I feel much safer.
dunno how its done in usa but in poland even if it means that the plane will be delayed we have to unload the bag. Bag simply is not allowed to travel without the owner, and thats not for passengers conviance but security, in case its a bomb or something. the only case when bag is flying without the owner is if its been lost and owner left without it for any reason, then its a special procedure and it has special "RUSH" label instead of standard one
In Australia baggage is also offloaded if the passenger isn't travelling on the same flight. Plus, warrants must be obtained to open a locked bag without the passenger present. X-rays are fine, and if an x-ray reveals an immediate threat warrants can be issued impressively fast. Passengers don't need to be served the warrant to search the bag. Opening cargo/post however is different, as it falls under several legislative acts, and warrants aren't necessarily needed to open something as part of an investigation.
@@shinjisan2015 yeah im pretty sure the regulation to offload luggage in case of passanger not flying is part of either ICAO or IATA therefore it is international
NO he took some locks that had been abandoned and slapped them on there because it was locked. SO she said that they would have to be cut off at his destination.
Standard procedure is (according to TSA website) that if they need to open a gun case (or any bag that's locked for that matter) that the airline contacts the passenger for the keys. They are ONLY allowed to cut locks when all other attempts to get the bag open have failed. You were 1000% right to stand your ground. They had zero right to cut your locks.
Joseph Gunnar NO NO NO !!! You did not listen. ONLY the person who owns and checks the bags in is allowed to be in possession of the key. There is no “call for the key”. They have to take you to the bag where YOU unlock and relock it, or bring the bag to you where you unlock and relock it. The TSA in this video is in violation of federal law.
@@RealDonLarson - I hate to burst your bubble but, you're incorrect. What you're speaking about is a bag with nothing potentially harmful in it. The only time the bag is brought out to the passenger for them to open it is in THAT specific circumstance. They do NOT bring bags with guns in them out from the secure area of baggage for the passenger to open in front of God and country. Imagine someone traveling with their AR15 and the TSA waltzes out to check in and allows the passenger to open the bag there. Think that would make everyone winessing it feel comfy? No.. And NO ONE is allowed into the secure area of baggage without appropriate credentials. So, the only other option is, turn over the key or they cut your lock. Bear in mind, they don't open your bag just because there's a gun in there. Guns travel without molestation a thousand times a day. BUT, if the bag alarms when sent through x-ray OR it is loaded they are REQUIRED to open it. Then everything I just said above comes into play. You can "NO, NO, NO!!" me all you want. It's a unarguable fact. PS- I DID listen. That's why my original post said that the TSA in this video were 1000% wrong in what they did.
Joseph Gunnar Here it is explained again by another frequent flier ua-cam.com/video/yd6Cc1r7L40/v-deo.html As I said, I fly once and sometimes twice a week That particular “regulation” is VERY familiar to me.
Joseph Gunnar One more thing. The firearms have to be in a locked HARD CASE inside the luggage. Soft Bags are not acceptable or advised cause your firearm will get damaged. As for locks, My co worker has a locking gun box inside his pellican luggage which has a padlock on it as well Not being an ass, I just know how we do it all over the country, and weekly, and on United/american/southwest/delta
@@DSiren "police" are usually "immune" to breaking the law in the course of supposedly "upholding the law" or some stupid bullshit like that. "Higher standard" "crimes of moral terpitude" shit only applies to having been busted 20 years ago when you got caught with weed in college, not to such things as intentionally causing and permitting an unlocked gun to leave both your and the owner's possession (and city) without a second thought. Or a first one for that matter.
Damn they almost stole you firearm, damaged property, broken multiple laws and safety codes, and made you miss you flight which most likely wont refund you for you. Thats a big fat lawsuit if i've seen one
The uploader is infuriatingly well mannered throughout all this. The lawbreaking by the airline and TSA here is absolutely fucking baffling, this is not freedom and legal action NEEDS to happen to set better precedents. If such a well mannered, responsible gun owner is being so carelessly disregarded imagine how easy it would be for a psychopath to social engineer the system and cause real terror. This does not make me feel safe as an american; it's a fucking mess.
Help me wrap my head around this. The TSA had a perfectly secured, locked and declared firearms package, which they rendered impossible to securely lock, tossed it on a plane with shitty generic combination locks (if it was locked at all) apart from the owner. So basically, both the owner of the guns and the rest of the passengers are now less safe than if the TSA never existed in the first place... Anything I'm missing here?
@@ryano.5149 it's theatre. Billions of dollars spent annually to make people think we did something to improve aircraft safety after 9/11 OTHER than put a soldier/policeman on every flight.
Isn't it a felony for the TSA to unsecure your firearms? On top of a misdemeanor for property damage? What legal recourse do you have in cases like this? :-/
My biggest concern would be if I were now somehow legally liable for traveling with unsecured firearms and end up in jail. TSA ain't gonna cop to shit even though it's their monumental fuck up. You are legally not allowed to secure firearms with locks that others (i.e TSA) can access
Omg I don't know how you stayed so calm through this. They were continually trying to minimize their liability and lie about what happened. She's also manipulating their rules to fit her views. Wtf man. I'd have flipped my shit. And probably ended up in cuffs.
@@DeviantOllam This is getting ridiculous. I wonder if this will help-- taping signs with electrical tape over the locked hasps stating: "This container has been secured in accordance with *49 C.F.R. § 1540.111(c)(2)(i)-(iv)*. If the situation requires the case to be opened, call the phone number listed on the side-- the passenger will be happy to present the key so that the contents may be inspected under his supervision in accordance with the regulations referenced above".
@@DeviantOllam I'd have tried calling the cops to tell them Airport security just stole my firearm and yeeted it onto a plane I didn't board. That'd make dispatch send someone to hear my side of the story, if nothing else.
I had an argument with TSA in Salt Lake City. Demanding my keys. I refused, told them to call their supervisor. Cited the law to him FOUR times. "NO THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. I AM TSA. WE DONT HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT." etc. Told him I would unlock it for him but I would not provide the keys as the law stated I was required to retain my key. Went back and forth for 45 minutes, he finally called his supervisor, supervisor chewed him out over the phone and told him to listen to what I was saying :)
My favourite part: Lady- it was too late when you called Dude- no the bag was right here we called to tell them, the guy we talked to left and they cut it anyway. I love the effort he went through to show that he’s gotta reason to be this pissed off.
Most of the employees quit anyway. Most of them don't stay around longer than a year now. Most of the ones you see today at the airport won't be there by next the next several months you travel to another state or country by plane.
For real. Kinda crazy they didn’t even know the rules for GUN cases, and even crazier kept trying to say they had to be TSA locks despite Dev explaining WHY. Like think about that. Any TSA bag checker or even handler with that common key could open it, take your gun, and no one would be the wiser.
KryptLynx my thought exactly. That first guy was barely able to speak it understandably and I've been in a lot of countries with difficult accents that I could still understand.
Shockingly San Francisco actually does it better. -You declare that you have a firearm. -They take you to a separate security screening area. -You provide the agent the key. -The agent opens the case with the key while you are there. -Your case is screened. -You lock your case backup with your key. -The case is escorted or put on an exempt cart.
Yes. Downstairs at the roll-up door near the cargo office, if I recall. That is hands-down the best way to do things. Also noteworthy is the fact that SFO airport does not have the TSA. They use the private contractor Covenant Aviation Services.
Exactly. In fact, even foreign countries are held to the same standards -- any country that doesn't use them is not allowed to operate aircraft in US airspace.
@@andridcore8042 They expect anything and everything, up to and including a chicken masala. It is their job to make sure that you are not trying to transport something that you are not allowed to transport. So yes, they expect a gun. Which is why they don't open it in a public location, and (ideally) they don't let the passenger open it themselves. But they're also make sure you're not smuggling Kinder Eggs or other forbidden items.
They tried this shit with me at Minneapolis. Had to explain to them that they were free to access my case without me present, but the moment they had access to my 11" barreled SBR and suppressors that THEY would be federal felons in posession of contraband NFA items, and as I am on a first name basis with many agents in the ATF field office in Minneapolis that they WOULD be investigated. Got them to knock their bullshit off real quick after that. MSP also does the bullshit "ziptie the case right in front of you at the baggage counter" crap, which lead to Delta calling the fucking cops on me as I cut the zipties right in front of them. I thought that was thoughtful, as I was demanding to know who in the baggage department KNEW I had firearms in the case in blatant contradiction to TSA guidelines and if they knew then they must have had ACCESS to said NFA items. Screw the TSA and the patriot act. Flying is just awful now. If my destination is within 1-2 days driving I skip it alltogether.
So they put a firearm on an airplane without the owner of the firearm and the firearm was locked with common key locks and this is a common practice for them?!?!?! That's appalling.
jadefalcon001 the tsa was not actually created to keep anybody safe. In reality it was created to fill affirmative action positions and harass law abiding Americans while completely ignoring actual threats. Tsa in a nutshell: White 80 year old couple finally getting to take the trip to Hawaii they always wanted to but could never afford gets strip searched because of "random inspections". Middle easterner wearing shirt saying "desth to infidels" and carrying a "prayer rug" (aka: dirty throw rug) and muttering about how he'll show the infidels is apologized to for the long line and is escorted around the metal detectors & the xray machine.
The TSA is in violation of the Code of Federal Regulations; Title 40, Subtitle B, Chapter XII, Subchapter C, Part 1540.111 (c)(2)(iv) "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination." & 1544.203 (f)(2)(iii) "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination". This is why I carry a copy of those codes with me.
Who holds them accountable? No one! The People have become weak, and just allow more and more illegal and unconstitutional crimes, by those they have entrusted to “protect” us. This is called Stockholm Syndrome!
@@abennett2783 In order for enforcement to occur you must contact law enforcement and inform them. I still believe it would only end in policy enforcement ( but you could ask to pursue a case, they probably won't try to do anything without you pushing for it )
My thoughts exactly. Though I would have politely informed them to expect to be charged for their crimes. Folks simply won't get it until they realized there are repercussions.
So glad we gave the government control over this. If that was Delta or Airport controlled security; you could sue and be made whole, it's the TSA so you're f*cked. -- The fact of the matter is, if you need increasing laws to control a society, the society has either devolved into a subhuman state or the "leaders" are trying to oppress you further to break your spirit and kill a trusting society.
Security theater? Who cares about that part? I'm more worried about the fact that they're a massive criminal organization that spits in the face of the Constitution. Kind of like the rest of the government.
Compared to the other thing, it's too insignificant for me to pay any attention to it. It's like worrying about a sore throat from breathing cold air while you're freezing to death.
This problem predates TSA. Back in the mid 1990’s I stopped taking certain camera lenses as checked bags because every time I checked them some Federal agent would cut the locks off my camera cases. It only just now occurred to me that my Pelican camera cases are identical to cases used to carry guns, and that an extraordinary dense person could confuse a 1000mm telephoto lens with a firearm.
They run them through automated machines, and they take a normal xray and slices like a cat scan. Certain lense materials and dense metals cause these machines to alarm, which prompts a bag check. Policy states that if a check is called, it has to be conducted. So it isn't a case of people not knowing the difference, it's just that they have to finish the check once the process has started.
Funnily enough, I know several photographers that travel with a firearm in their camera gear very specifically. Their case CANNOT be "lost" or that company is in some major shit. Seems like overkill, but he's always got his gear when he gets to his destination.
@@SlightlyM3ntal wait so people carry guns with their cameras just to make sure it doesn't go "missing" since the airport would get fucked if a gun went missing?
@Addict in case there was any confusion, a 1000mm lens isn’t actually 1000mm long; 1000mm refers to the focal distance, meaning the distance from the point where light rays converge to form a sharp image, to the sensor (or film). It’s a calculated value, not something directly measured. But I get your point!
I wouldn't say disbanded, but there should be a minimum IQ and logic test to be a TSA agent. They seem to hire any idiot these days who can't think for themselves. I will say that I once forgot about a knife i had in my backpack, which they correctly screened and founded during security. It was my fault for forgetting to put the knife in my checked luggage. Although I was a bit sad I had to leave the knife behind to board my flight, it was a silver lining to know that some TSA agents are doing their job.
So when they relocked the case. Was it with TSA locks? Because now you have a case containing a firearm secured in a manner that is against federal regulation.
@@wobblysauce I don't reckon they were TSA locks. Cause he had no way to open them when he got there. If they were TSA locks they could have unlocked them at the airport.
What you need to do is next time it happens and you are told that your locks have been cut, Instantly and in front of the TSA agent call the local FBI branch and report that firearms are "unsecured and loose somewhere in the airport". It is the honest truth at the time and it will light fires at the FBI to investigate and they are more than willing to arrest whoever did it and their supervisor. When asked why you called them just say you didn't want to be arrested for someone else's crimes.
IANAL, but, I would assume you will someday hear a recording of that phone call being played back in a courtroom, and be careful how you phrase things. For example, you don't know that the guns are unsecured and roaming freely around the airport - you know that a Delta agent (or TSA agent) TOLD YOU they cut the locks on your gun case - and you know the alleged lock-cutting didn't happen in your presence, which would be a violation of TSA rules - and therefore, based on what Delta/TSA has told you, you are concerned, as you cannot possibly know whether your guns are still secured properly or not. You don't even know at this point whether they're still in the case or not. That's the key - you don't know.
Also the courts have ruled that ignorance of the law is a justifiable defense for government officials. So good luck getting anyone fired or prosecuted.
Huge props to you and the Delta staff for handling this like the professionals you all are. You better have gotten a check from the TSA for the destroyed property.
Wrong, don't make taxpayers pay for goon fuckups. Make the goons pay. It's goon's job to know the law, and if goon doesn't, and it costs money, goon should have to pay.
This is why I used to carry a paper copy of the policies with me when I flew (2-3 times a week). Just for occasions like that, so when they say it’s not the policy, you hand it to them and say here’s the updated copy for your records. Contacting the security director is a nice touch as well.
It occurs to me to tuck a camera inside the case, and a big sign that says "You just committed a felony." ... and then submit the footage to your favorite lawyer for the lawsuit later.
Kind of unnerving that neither of them was familiar with the fact that TSA locks can't be used on firearm cases. Without them knowing the policy offhand, I wonder how many guns are successfully traveling with insecure TSA locks.
Yeah, that's SUPER fucked up. Ladies: FEDERAL LAW SAYS NO TSA LOCKS. FEDERAL LAW SAYS YOU HAVE TO CHECK FIREARMS. How in the FUCK does that TSA lady still have a job when she doesn't even know the laws she's supposed to be enforcing?!
@@rogerthornsby7074 No the guy who posted the vid is absolutely correct. The only person who can be in possession of the key or the combination for a checked firearm is the passenger. If TSA needs access they are required to call the passenger who will open it for them and be present for the bag check. Feel free to Google the procedures outlined by the TSA for properly checking a bag with a firearm. TSA locks are not allowed on a gun case.
Joseph Cota I’m not trying to be difficult but do you have a reference on this. I use the tsa locks on gun cases all the time. It has been encourage at several airports and I know that their guidelines not only allow it but also encourage it. Unless this is a very recent thing?
The fact that by the end they still didn't seem to understand that you are not allowed to put TSA approved locks on a firearms case and that them relocking the case with TSA approved locks is against policy is astonishing to me.
"is astonishing to me" it shouldn't, look at the quality of the agents... They might as well be saying "do you want fries with that" if TSA didn't hire them.
FYI "Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks." www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
CliffArt + First off, policy is not law. That's why its not codified as a CFR. The TSA policy is not in compliance with 49 CFR 1540.5. This needs to be corrected ASAP or sooner. The wording that the TSA site uses, "SHOULD" is incorrect. Should is a best practices procedure. "SHALL" is a mandate. Per 49 CFR 1540.5, section §1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals. Paragraph (i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded; (ii) The firearm is unloaded; (iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and (iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination. At the point that TSA cut the lock from this case, they've broken Federal law. Ignorance of the law doesn't pertain to most government agencies, so keep that in mind. You and I can't use the excuse of ignorance, but government employees aren't required to know all of the laws which they are charged with enforcing. IMO, they need to bring their policy into compliance with the law, and retrain their employees. After retraining, if they continue to break the law, they should be prosecuted for violating federal law.
Wow. That's a level of stupidity you don't see too often. A firearm on an aircraft separated from its owner and secured using common-key locks, which will be arriving long before the owner.. Brilliant.
Thanks Olga. One last thing: Would you spell your last name for me so I get it right on police report? You were so much cooler about this than I would have been. How the eff did the let the plane leave with your bag on it without you? Seriously no bueno. Too bad: MCO is my favorite airport.
What would have happened if one of the workers cut that open and decided, "Hey, you know who I really don't like? Everyone else I work with." This is not just a privacy matter, it's a safety matter.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 No, it doesn't. Similarly, ammunition needn't be carried in a separate checked bag. Here's the relevant federal regulation: "(8) Small arms ammunition for personal use carried by a crewmember or passenger in checked baggage only, if securely packed in boxes or other packagings specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition clips and magazines must also be securely boxed. This paragraph does not apply to persons traveling under the provisions of 49 CFR 1544.219." www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0e643a4dc787c2bebb8e96698e046b29&mc=true&n=pt49.2.175&r=PART&ty=HTML%20-%20se49.2.175_110#se49.2.175_110 TSA interpretation lays out more possibilities, allowing for the admitting to be stored in magazines: "Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm. Read the requirements governing the transport of ammunition in checked baggage as defined by 49 CFR 175.10 (a)(8). Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm." www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition Airlines may have policies requiring ammunition to be in its original packaging. But that's not the regulation nor how it's been interpreted by the TSA.
bnctaj I stand corrected, yet technically right. It doesn’t have to be in a separate checked bag, merely not loaded :) I just went off what I knew from flying with *airline name here* and what they asked I do.
Or, you know, make it a policy to start calling the cops saying someone just broke into your gun case and there is now an unsecured firearm every time someone, you know, breaks into your gun case How many times would "airline X agent creates security breach shutting down airport" have to be in the news before the asshatery stopped.
@@OliverKrystal that's silly. Making things up doesn't help the matter, you just look like a loon. Nothing was stolen in this case, the legal issues are the destruction of the locks, and leaving firearms unsecured.
@@RobertSzaszIt seems to me tho' that he could made a good case that the firearms are now outside his control, through the deliberate actions of a third, trusted, party.
@@nicolek4076 yup, but that's different from being stolen. Even the locks weren't stolen. Stealing usually requires not only intent to permanently deprive the owner of the thing, but also some intent to take for your own use.
I love your response very informed and forceful in making sure they understand your issues and try resolve them but also extremely professional and polite
I watched your video about turning off your inner capslock earlier today and I just have to say that I'm absolutely blown away by your ability to take a breath, step back, and deescalate a situation that you are actively involved in.
Lots of backpedaling when you say you called the bag room prior to the bag on the belt. I travel for work all the time, and have had equipment go missing or get broken only to find a lovely parting pamphlet. I really enjoy your series on flying with weapons, and am considering doing it as well. Appreciate all that you do in order to keep us informed!
@@gh0stmast3r yeah, just gotta keep up to date on which states, municipalities, and townships crap all over AR-15 lowers. A couple years ago (and after watching Deviant's traveling with firearms video/powerpoint) I thought of packing a flare gun on a trip to California. Sadly, no go, CA has a prohibition on non-residents owning flare-guns or unregistered gun parts.
@@gh0stmast3r a cheap ass high point is more than enough. About $200-300. As someone else pointed out its a PITA to keep up with what states, counties and municipalities laws and ordinances regarding semi-auto sport rifles and their parts.
also, as a side, that TSA rep, other than just rolling out some well used lines, really seemed to lack what I would expect as the basic knowledge of the rules
Agree. She's saying they have to cut the locks if they aren't TSA locks when federal fucking law says they CAN'T be TSA locks. WTF lady. How do you even have this job.
They took my cane. The second part of a round trip, returning home. On the way down it was fine but I couldn't bring it home. Not metal, not a sword, a medically necessary stick. They waited till I was on the plane and rushed me. It was the craziest thing. I thought about shitting my pants, making a scene but went home and started calling people in the TSA. I was apologized to but it was all kind of hollow. I consider it theft.
@@mayalesovsky2764 Yeah, I don't fly with that one but put it in my baggage. On a side note they totally freaked when they found my wires and computer parts in my carry on and ripped off my cigarettes. It's like I was dealing with muggers.....Oh yeah and they xrayed the shit out of my laptop...This was all on the return trip. On the way out I could have had an atomic bomb and several elephant tusks. On the way out I had a shirt "Welcome to Glorious Kazakhstan" on and a beard..No kidding. I had shaved and had a polo shirt on the return trip.
The number of times you backed off your tone with the "I appreciate you listening", "You didn't do this", "you don't deserve this..", etc would've made me (at least when I worked in customer service) take you to the closest gun store and buy you a gun, case, and locks, then run down the runway and stopped your plane. A LOT of people wouldn't have been as cool as you were.
I'm not sure if people realise this. Good customer service can, genuinely, go both ways. If you use some "customer service" practices when you are the customer (empathy, active listening techniques, remaining logical and calm etc), the outcome will almost always be better for you.
There an 80% chance he worked in some sort of customer service. People who have worked customer service usually remember what jerk offs people can be and at least try to be polite. Ive talked to phone reps and had to preface the call with "please don't take anything I'm about to say or how I'm going to say it personally. I know your not the one who screwed up but if I don't vent a little I'm going to explode"
@@SiFiFreak Yeah. I am almost certain that a big part of the way I treat service industry employees comes from the fact that I worked in service industries from high school through college.
@@enisylo , I have worked customer service as well. I still did MY JOB regardless of how well or poorly the customer treated me. In the incredibly rare instance when I was unable to do MY JOB I went to a supervisor. Yes, being treated poorly is in bad taste, stressful, etc., but doing YOUR JOB is what you get paid for. It may not be "your problem" on a personal level but because of YOUR JOB and the poor actions of YOUR COWORKER it is now "your problem". It's a shame the US has gotten to the point where others think if their feelings are hurt that it is a reasonable and valid excuse to performing poorly or stonewalling the customer to the point of costing them.
I didn't mean in the sense that if you act like an arsehole, you should necessarily expect someone to treat you like one (although in reality the chances of that also increase). I meant it more in the sense that if you approach it as a problem that needs to be solved, and being calm and communicating clearly will result in you getting what you want or need out of the situation far more quickly. For example: if Deviant had acted, understandably, incredibly upset and kept interrupting these people while they tried to do their job that wouldn't result in him getting what he wanted any quicker or more effectively. It just makes everyone's experience worse.
@@robertkubrick3738 just checking but do you know who deviant ollam is? This is the guy locksmiths go to for help 😎 his question was purely rhetorical.
I'm active duty military, I fly with firearms all the time. While they can search your luggage they are supposed to let you be present when they search your luggage when asked. I unlock the case, ask for a TSA rep and tell them (when I declare my firearms at the counter) I want to be present when they check my firearm(half the time it's military weapons) before locking the case. They have always brought me back to a screening area they check my weapons case and ammo(if I'm bringing it). Then I lock the case, thank TSA for helping me out and I'm off.
Jer F when do you fly with military weapons? It’s against SOP to transport military weapons or ammunition in any POV/non-govt vehicle so I find it hard to believe you’ve transported military weapons on a commercial airline.
Dylan Lewis well then it’s not a military weapon anymore. Military surplus sales of weapons only happen after a significant amount of time and after a weapon is reduced to civilian legal standards if it doesn’t already meet them. Which just makes it a firearm, not a military weapon. From the context that I understand he’s saying he brings his service weapon on commercial airlines sometimes which doesn’t add up. Weapons are issued to you from your unit and when you PCS to another duty station you are issued a weapon from that unit. The only person with authorization to allow weapons to be taken out of the armory is the unit commander and only for specific purposes like occasional maintenance, training, and range day. No commander will or should even allow a weapon to be taken home, into a POV, or anywhere other than training grounds. When a weapon goes unaccounted for the policy is to lockdown the installation until the weapon is found. That’s how serious the military takes it’s firearms.
Have they said what they’re going to do about reimbursing you for the locks? I have switched to the Pelican “Air” series for the large containers which allows me to put Abloy 340 locks on them. Which means hydraulic bolt cutters or an electrical grinder to remove. I also have very clear guidance (as I know you do) next to the locks showing, “For Access call xx” so that it’s very clear. I also put name/add/phone where the case is going inside the trunk, take a picture of that with contents and then again with case closed and locked with date/time stamps to document everything. Last time I flew in FL, baggage had added those half inch zip ties around case “per their policy “. We’ve lost so many of our rights. There was a time you could carry on the flight with just your CCW creds. Even Police have to jump through hoops to carry onboard now.
@@JamEngulfer stricter like the video and many others in comments? Yea cause those stricter gun laws on planes sure stopped those bad guys with box cutters kill thousands huh?! Just saying that most of those policies are not for safety but to insure we as citizens behave and to how much we'll put up with before no more. No matter the laws today, something will happen to kill that security and TSA will just implement more and more laws that only restrict the rights/privileges of the citizens who use those services. We'll give TSA more power too. Need to stop being so comfy having "armed guards" protect us and protect ourselves together.
@@ediciusbizaar4977 Well, yeah. Now we've restricted taking sharp items on planes, no planes have been hijacked by people with boxcutters. In fact, we're now living in one of the safest times for plane travel ever. Since the massively increased security restrictions introduced after 2001, we haven't had a single hijacking of a plane going to or from US airspace. 2017 had zero deaths in commercial aviation. These are pretty clear indications that the policies work.
@@JamEngulfer The draconian policies are theater. The reason why hijackings are next to impossible now isn't because of TSA restrictions - it's because of the cultural shift that happened during the 9/11 hijackings. It used to be that if your plane was hijacked you'd most likely be delayed, and in the most extreme cases one or two passengers might die. People were routinely told that if a hijacking takes place, keep your head down, stay quiet, don't resist. In an hour that completely changed. Now if someone tries to hijack a plane, the assumption is that everyone in the plane is dead unless they immediately rise up and fight. So how, instead of a plane full of people conditioned to be docile, any would-be hijacker is now facing 200 people who will literally charge into gunfire because they know that's their only hope. That's why the last plane hijacked on 9/11 never reached its target. The TSA hasn't made anyone safer. The radical change in mindset has.
@@Datan0de Except there were still hijackings outside of US airspace in places where airport security is more lax. The security theatre doesn't necessarily have to be effective, it just has to stand as a deterrant.
As a former airline employee and a person who flies with a firearm 95% of the time. You are the most calm irate person I have ever seen in person or on a video.
I might recommend having the FAA and ATF local field office phone numbers on your phone for the next time this happens. When your told that the lock has been cut tell the person you are dealing with that you are reporting an unsecured firearm in the controlled/sterile area of the airport, as otherwise you might be held liable. Because worst of all in this instance is your unsecured/undersecured firearm flew to its destination without you and will enter another sterile environment on the other side and 1) you weren't present to claim it. 2) it's a security problem on the other side as well.
FAA doesn't care where the firearm is, unless it's being used to hijack a plane. Get the number for the airline ops department, if you can (not the customer service, the aircraft dispatch). They provide a response to your completely true information that will result in all of the gate and TSA agents getting new training on how to handle firearms in checked baggage.
The way you handled the situation and your tone of voice was inspiring and helpful for me. This video literally helped me to try and be a better person by being understanding and calm.
Thanks! A lot of that has to do with: 1. Understanding who really is at fault and who isn't 2. Knowing that you'll be taken more seriously if you're not shouting 3. I have a lot of privilege that comes from being financially secure and knowing that any damage caused will either be paid for by them or paid for by me but not be a hardship in either case.
They're on the defensive. They are shifting blame and also showing that they don't even understand the law. Regardless of the law, they should have some concern for the major communication breakdown of something so simple that you went out of your way to spoon-feed them the easy parts of the process. And you are right, when " fetch my bolt cutters" is the first reaction there is a lack of training and knowledge of procedure. So many things wrong here. In the name of making people safe they have created a huge bureaucratic government tit for sometimes otherwise unemployable people to suck on and who have a disproportionate amount of power for the lack of training and concern that they have for others. When I moved into my house I had a lot of problems with a next door neighbor constantly fighting out in the street, selling drugs, assaults, everything. Guess who the owner of the house was? A TSA agent. The same person who had a SWAT team break into their house for her family's involvement in an armed robbery and drug bust is the same person who has the authority to not only go through my bags but seriously ruin not just my trip but arbitrarily put some sort of black mark on an unaccessible list that could affect my ability to travel forever. Just keep doing what you're doing: Stay polite, follow the rules, so that anytime somebody fucks up the onus is on them. Good luck and safe travels, you are doing a great service by doing what you can to fairly force accountability on the people that screw up. Otherwise it won't change. Once your bags are on that plane the plane cannot take off anyway. Stand your ground. They will try to make you feel bad and try to rush you but in the end your rights and the law is on your side ... hopefully there won't be a huge inconvenience or retaliatory consequences from that airport which from these kind of people can easily happen. Edit: I didn't realize the plane took off with your luggage. OMG. Magna Carta bitches. The laws that they heavily enforce in the name of safety they didn't even follow when the plane left with the luggage of a passenger that did not board. I wouldn't even know where to start with Delta or with TSA or just walking to an attorney's office and show them this video LOL. Again, good luck.
What actual evidence does this video provide? Other than coversations. He needs to get the video from the luggage handling cameras. You know where Juan is.
How about "Hey, there's GUNS now flying unaccompanied. Think that might be a little fucking dangerous?" Or even "Hey, there's baggage flying on a plane without its owner. Think *that* might be of a security concerning nature?!"
Throwing TSA locks on a secure container creates an _unsecure_ firearm in the sterile area. Allowing the unsecured firearm to take flight on it's own exposes the destination sterile area to higher risk (they are not aware).
The amazing thing to me is how incredibly uneducated the staff AND TSA are on their OWN policies...! Why the hell is this allowed to happen...?! When they have a clear policy and the LAW requires you to do something a certain way, how can their own staff and (past) managers not be aware of this shit?
As someone who hasn’t had much parental guidance, I would really like to say how much I respect the way you handled the situation. You obviously have more than enough reason to be mad and frustrated and it showed, but with that there’s was a clear amount of self awareness that put yourself back in your place knowing that they didn’t deserve it. I think I could say just by this display of level headedness, you’d maintain the same respect in the even that they did deserve it. You seem to be a very good person and I thank you for the inspiration as I feel these days people with that same restrain from negativity are lacking and deserve the praise.
Deviant... OMG Sir handled like an absolute professional. I love your con talks and too see this side of you is amazing!!!! You sir are a true educator!!
@@atsnokki they would argue that they cannot know if a firearm is really contained and that they cannot locate the passenger... and honestly, no judge will loose his time for 2 locks at 10$ each...
Mad props to you Deviant for handling that situation like a pro. I would never be able to remain that calm knowing my baggage is travelling across the country unsecured and without me. I hope to see a followup article next time you fly through MCO and how that goes.
The fact that they have blatantly ignored their own policies, destroyed personal property, and offer nothing in terms of compensation; against a man who is apologizing to them for having his rights violated, is outrageous.
If I travel by plane, I take my Sig P-250 apart and mail it to my destination except for the trigger assembly that I keep ( trigger assembly on a Sig-250 is the serial number part that's concerned the "gun").The T.S.A. is a joke.
Time to start carrying extra locks with you so you can get your cases home safely, dude. This is total BS, but it's clear they're not going to learn. You might eventually have to sue for the cost of those locks...what is it, about $1000 in Abloys by now? Or more?
I always have a spare pair of abloy PL321 padlocks in my carry-on at all times. Sometimes we've used them at public accommodation lockers like at hostels and such in Amsterdam. But other times I have needed to use them mid journey when someone's locks have been cut.
@@TJackson736 far too much of the country is, sadly. I used to teach shooting years ago, but was disabled by an accident and no longer can. (Ironically, I suffered a broken neck because, while re-arming from my trunk safe after work, the trunk lid blew down on my head in a 40mph wind. The company didn't allow weapons, you see, and I needed the work.) Now I use lock picking, among other things, as physical therapy for my hands and my dexterity.
Phil Swaim Good luck- When’s the last time the ATF perp walked another alphabet soup agent? There’s probably some of their own agents they should start with.
This is the problem with any bureaucracy; the arm doesn't talk to the hand, which doesn't talk to the other hand which is doing a completely separate part of what is supposed to be the same task. It is a problem when the head of security knows the procedure that is supposed to happen and can recite it by memory, but the lower level staff of the same department don't follow it yet alone know the policy itself. It shouldn't take (especially repeated) incidents like this for them to attempt to instill changes directly on a large scale; the policy was made to avoid garbage like this in the first place.
Kind of you to say. And in all honesty, it comes from holding a lot of privilege... Knowing I have pull with the airline and that they kind of "have to" listen to me. Not just anyone could do this and get a result. It is important, I think, to remain mindful of that.
They usually x ray my bags with my pelican with locks on them. They never ask to open the case, and if my gun was messed with, thats a federal crime. TSA should be held responsible.
I bet there are pictures all over the bag floor at Orlando of your specific cases and contact info with the words "cut this guys locks no matter what."
Oh boy, it infuriates me that the initial response is along the lines of; "Oh well, we've put new locks back on.", knowing your talks I highly doubt they're an equivalent, whether they came with keys or not.
Based on TSA’s history, they’re more apt to steal your items than stop a terrorist. I was assaulted by TSA for opting out of their body scanner, so I no longer fly.
You were way too polite here Deviant. Olga was flat out lying to you to avoid admitting they did something wrong. You were in no way rude or frustrated, you should have threatened to escalate further and requested to be reimbursed for the locks plus inconvenience, if they refuse you can bring them up on the violations of federal policy.
Devient mentioned an incident like this in another of his videos, he said it took about a year and a month of trying but he eventually got a cheque for the cost of the locks.
Probably goes without saying, but Dev, you are the most cordial person I've ever seen dealing with frustrating situations via customer service. Even despite the infuriating situation and repeated offense. I worked in customer service for close to a decade, and can say that I would absolutely cherish dealing with any customer who is as kind and understanding of the position those agents and managers are in, despite the miscommunication and destruction of your property. I wish more people were as understanding. Obviously, we all deal with situations that can be awful and frustrating, and sometimes it's the final straw on an already rough day, but maintaining composure is a skill that I value greatly in the world of customer service. It seems to be more rare than it should be. Each of us, whether we are customers or working in customer service ought to spend time reflecting on our actions, tone, and the larger situation. The fact that you figure out and keep track of the names of people who you interact with is very inspiring, that's something I've always been bad at, but I think it goes a very long way when dealing with situations like this. Of course, maintaining composure is beneficial for helping to get what you want in that situation, but it also has the effect of making the situation at least somewhat less stressful and more manageable for the customer service professionals involved. We all get into predicaments where someone makes a bad call, or isn't thinking, or thinks they're doing the right thing and are misinformed, and certainly there are some rare times when someone does something (like cutting a lock, for instance) with malicious intent, but the key thing to remember is that we're all human, we all have lives outside of these brief interactions we have with one another. Thank you for being so gracious in these situations.
it's more than the second time for me, and plenty more than that for my team and I together. But, remember, we are on a hundred flights or more per year. Eventually the number start catching up to you and we get to experience all the edge cases once in awhile.
The reason why is training he has trained himself. Clearly the TSA doesnt provide adequate training. As a government entity it is just not working either the higher ups are next to useless and thats why they have very few properly trained employees.
@@Marin3r101 The TSA is a *huge* organization, that employs nearly 60,000 people, with a minimum requirement of a high school degree or GED. I'm willing to bet most hires are not going to stick around for more than a year or two, which means training all those employees is really expensive. There's going to be more than a few employees at each airport that are undertrained.
@@DrakonIL Have you looked at TSA's reports on its turnover rate? It's *astronomical.* Check this out: "The TSA employs a total of about 11,700 screeners at the 10 airports. The turnover rate across those sites ranged from 30 percent to more than 80 percent over the five years analyzed. Turnover among federal employees overall has hovered around 15 percent during the past three years, Hausknecht said." www.bna.com/airport-screeners-often-n73014482630/ It's a fucking garbage organization, and the only people that stay are either idiots, or people unemployable anywhere else.
Next time you go through MCO have a bodycam going from the moment you enter, or just pointedly film the whole interaction with the check in process and tell them specifically that it is so you can later identify who has screwed things up. Knowing ahead there might be a sliver of accountability could make a difference in their willingness to actually do the job competently.
Let's say this was a layover, you now can't fly because you don't have locks for you gun case, your legally required to have standard non TSA locks on the case. You (at least as far as I know) can't usually leave the airport on a layover stop to get more padlocks. So what happens now?
They confiscate your firearms. That is the intent of every U.S. government agency. Their procedures supersede all laws and the United States Constitution. They are shielded from civil actions, also.
@@phlodel Yeah, no. They didn't cut the locks because ZOMG GUNS, they cut the locks because they're fucking idiots that can't pick up a phone. It didn't matter WHAT was in the case, they wanted to cut the locks because TSA fucks.
Thoughtless people like those TSA agents that cut your locks are the same type of people that also seem to expect to make $30 an hour for such piss-poor decision making.. Some people have zero frigging critical thinking skills..
I’ve been browsing through your videos this week, extremely informative and entertaining at the same time. But this shows how kind of a person you are. This is how to be upset and polite at the same time. The ladies were indeed polite and helpful back, or at least so it seems. Subscribed and hooked! Thanks for everything, Deviant. Cheers from France :)
You're way to nice, I would be beyond pissed if they did that more than once. There would already be a court case in the works. That smug look at 11:45 just made me more pissed.
TSA / CBP training is spotty at best. I typically lock all 4 locking holes (NANUK case) with their TSA lock. I know I am supposed to be the only one with the key, but they are TSA combination locks, and whatever. Always insist on Special/Oversized baggage handling, and make sure the bag clears x-ray and security before you do. Sometimes they ask you to wait for the baggage to clear and OK before you head off to the passenger screening line.
lol, I love her blank stare when he's explaining that his gun is on the plane that he wasn't able to board, probably unlocked, headed to God knows where. Nice job TSA. I feel much safer.
dunno how its done in usa but in poland even if it means that the plane will be delayed we have to unload the bag. Bag simply is not allowed to travel without the owner, and thats not for passengers conviance but security, in case its a bomb or something. the only case when bag is flying without the owner is if its been lost and owner left without it for any reason, then its a special procedure and it has special "RUSH" label instead of standard one
In Australia baggage is also offloaded if the passenger isn't travelling on the same flight. Plus, warrants must be obtained to open a locked bag without the passenger present. X-rays are fine, and if an x-ray reveals an immediate threat warrants can be issued impressively fast. Passengers don't need to be served the warrant to search the bag. Opening cargo/post however is different, as it falls under several legislative acts, and warrants aren't necessarily needed to open something as part of an investigation.
@@shinjisan2015 yeah im pretty sure the regulation to offload luggage in case of passanger not flying is part of either ICAO or IATA therefore it is international
NO he took some locks that had been abandoned and slapped them on there because it was locked. SO she said that they would have to be cut off at his destination.
Tsa steals and sells their stolen gubs on the black market for profit
Standard procedure is (according to TSA website) that if they need to open a gun case (or any bag that's locked for that matter) that the airline contacts the passenger for the keys. They are ONLY allowed to cut locks when all other attempts to get the bag open have failed. You were 1000% right to stand your ground. They had zero right to cut your locks.
Joseph Gunnar
NO NO NO !!!
You did not listen.
ONLY the person who owns and checks the bags in is allowed to be in possession of the key.
There is no “call for the key”.
They have to take you to the bag where YOU unlock and relock it, or bring the bag to you where you unlock and relock it.
The TSA in this video is in violation of federal law.
@@RealDonLarson - I hate to burst your bubble but, you're incorrect. What you're speaking about is a bag with nothing potentially harmful in it. The only time the bag is brought out to the passenger for them to open it is in THAT specific circumstance. They do NOT bring bags with guns in them out from the secure area of baggage for the passenger to open in front of God and country. Imagine someone traveling with their AR15 and the TSA waltzes out to check in and allows the passenger to open the bag there. Think that would make everyone winessing it feel comfy? No.. And NO ONE is allowed into the secure area of baggage without appropriate credentials. So, the only other option is, turn over the key or they cut your lock. Bear in mind, they don't open your bag just because there's a gun in there. Guns travel without molestation a thousand times a day. BUT, if the bag alarms when sent through x-ray OR it is loaded they are REQUIRED to open it. Then everything I just said above comes into play. You can "NO, NO, NO!!" me all you want. It's a unarguable fact. PS- I DID listen. That's why my original post said that the TSA in this video were 1000% wrong in what they did.
Joseph Gunnar
Here it is explained again by another frequent flier
ua-cam.com/video/yd6Cc1r7L40/v-deo.html
As I said, I fly once and sometimes twice a week
That particular “regulation” is VERY familiar to me.
Joseph Gunnar
One more thing.
The firearms have to be in a locked HARD CASE inside the luggage. Soft Bags are not acceptable or advised cause your firearm will get damaged.
As for locks, My co worker has a locking gun box inside his pellican luggage which has a padlock on it as well
Not being an ass, I just know how we do it all over the country, and weekly, and on United/american/southwest/delta
take this to court
Man: "This case has a gun"
TSA: breaks locks**
TSA: "Sorry sir, this case can't pass because is not locked"
how is that not a criminal offense???
@@DSiren it could be but they haven't been sued repeatedly enough to train employees to not do that
or let break in if it good to steal someone weapon from this case
@@DSiren "police" are usually "immune" to breaking the law in the course of supposedly "upholding the law" or some stupid bullshit like that. "Higher standard" "crimes of moral terpitude" shit only applies to having been busted 20 years ago when you got caught with weed in college, not to such things as intentionally causing and permitting an unlocked gun to leave both your and the owner's possession (and city) without a second thought. Or a first one for that matter.
@@knghtbrd TSA are not law enforcement. AFAIK they can only detain, not arrest you.
Damn they almost stole you firearm, damaged property, broken multiple laws and safety codes, and made you miss you flight which most likely wont refund you for you. Thats a big fat lawsuit if i've seen one
TSA is immune from lawsuit according to the 3rd circuit courts
The uploader is infuriatingly well mannered throughout all this. The lawbreaking by the airline and TSA here is absolutely fucking baffling, this is not freedom and legal action NEEDS to happen to set better precedents. If such a well mannered, responsible gun owner is being so carelessly disregarded imagine how easy it would be for a psychopath to social engineer the system and cause real terror. This does not make me feel safe as an american; it's a fucking mess.
@@JohnDoe-em7of Not for long. There's a case working through the system about that BS right now. Lehto Law talked about it.
@@krissisk4163 who? What? Link?
@@JohnDoe-em7of How can anyone be immune to a lawsuite?! Thats not how it works...
"This case has a gun in it."
"Okay, we'll just have to cut it open to make sure there isn't anything dangerous in it."
Lol
Seems reasonable... it could be anything in there... a bomb is dangerous... human organs.. drugs...
@@CR604 Nobody smuggles drugs on a domestic flight.
@@kalebbruwer I think that was a joke.
@@CR604 Maybe let the passenger come down and unlock it for a sec?
Help me wrap my head around this. The TSA had a perfectly secured, locked and declared firearms package, which they rendered impossible to securely lock, tossed it on a plane with shitty generic combination locks (if it was locked at all) apart from the owner. So basically, both the owner of the guns and the rest of the passengers are now less safe than if the TSA never existed in the first place... Anything I'm missing here?
You've got it. But they didn't put locks on. The put on zip ties and called it good.
@@DeviantOllam I'm speechless. Literally.
@@DeviantOllam It is legitimately terrifying there are people this stupid responsible for the security of an airport.
@@DeviantOllam makes that pelican case really worth it huh?
@@ryano.5149 it's theatre. Billions of dollars spent annually to make people think we did something to improve aircraft safety after 9/11 OTHER than put a soldier/policeman on every flight.
Isn't it a felony for the TSA to unsecure your firearms? On top of a misdemeanor for property damage? What legal recourse do you have in cases like this? :-/
Bump I kinda wanna know too.
@@aaronevan4065 Qualified immunity makes it very difficult for a citizen to sue the US government.
My biggest concern would be if I were now somehow legally liable for traveling with unsecured firearms and end up in jail. TSA ain't gonna cop to shit even though it's their monumental fuck up. You are legally not allowed to secure firearms with locks that others (i.e TSA) can access
thedudepdx Hence the point of non tsa locks... and look there 'resecured' with tsa locks and flying away from the owner.
The TSA agents literally broke the law and this airport should seriously be investigated by tsa, fbi, atf, and the faa for proper handling procedures.
Omg I don't know how you stayed so calm through this. They were continually trying to minimize their liability and lie about what happened. She's also manipulating their rules to fit her views. Wtf man. I'd have flipped my shit. And probably ended up in cuffs.
Kind of you to say. :-)
JC I would try to stay calm if I was dealing with women too.. but if it was a man I was talking to, I’d probably lose my shit..
@@DeviantOllam This is getting ridiculous. I wonder if this will help-- taping signs with electrical tape over the locked hasps stating: "This container has been secured in accordance with *49 C.F.R. § 1540.111(c)(2)(i)-(iv)*. If the situation requires the case to be opened, call the phone number listed on the side-- the passenger will be happy to present the key so that the contents may be inspected under his supervision in accordance with the regulations referenced above".
@@DeviantOllam I'd have tried calling the cops to tell them Airport security just stole my firearm and yeeted it onto a plane I didn't board. That'd make dispatch send someone to hear my side of the story, if nothing else.
@@DSiren "never call the cops for any reason"
I had an argument with TSA in Salt Lake City. Demanding my keys. I refused, told them to call their supervisor. Cited the law to him FOUR times.
"NO THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. I AM TSA. WE DONT HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT."
etc.
Told him I would unlock it for him but I would not provide the keys as the law stated I was required to retain my key.
Went back and forth for 45 minutes, he finally called his supervisor, supervisor chewed him out over the phone and told him to listen to what I was saying :)
Never had that issue at SLC...probably because you flew before I did...I had the exact same argument in MSP airport though.
Would have just pulled it up on my phone and saved myself 43 minutes of arguing
@@TheBadGuy15 they don't give a rats ass about stuff on a phone unfortunately
@@TheBadGuy15 I did, but it still took arguing.
SLC TSA sucks. I was going through once wearing a long coat, the guy took me for a Mormon missionary and started asking me religious questions.
My favourite part:
Lady- it was too late when you called
Dude- no the bag was right here we called to tell them, the guy we talked to left and they cut it anyway.
I love the effort he went through to show that he’s gotta reason to be this pissed off.
TSA: Committing felonies since 2001.
With a 99% fail rate.
@@mattlord2906 No, they're quite successful at committing felonies; In fact they have a mandate to do so. What they fail at is protecting America.
@ Yep.
TSA: Tough Shit America.
Most of the employees quit anyway. Most of them don't stay around longer than a year now. Most of the ones you see today at the airport won't be there by next the next several months you travel to another state or country by plane.
Holy moly dude you have the patience of a saint.
For real. Kinda crazy they didn’t even know the rules for GUN cases, and even crazier kept trying to say they had to be TSA locks despite Dev explaining WHY. Like think about that. Any TSA bag checker or even handler with that common key could open it, take your gun, and no one would be the wiser.
I'm not sure I would have been able to keep my composure. Right now imagining myself being hauled off by security after an irate ranting fit.
you should design a fluro orange sticker, stating do not cut, replacing with TSA locks is against federal law and you will be sued
I bet they will read that just as well as they did the phone number.
TSA will not follow FAA regs, airline regs, or their own regs.
@@Bruke53I'm not sure they a able to read English
KryptLynx my thought exactly. That first guy was barely able to speak it understandably and I've been in a lot of countries with difficult accents that I could still understand.
Shockingly San Francisco actually does it better.
-You declare that you have a firearm.
-They take you to a separate security screening area.
-You provide the agent the key.
-The agent opens the case with the key while you are there.
-Your case is screened.
-You lock your case backup with your key.
-The case is escorted or put on an exempt cart.
Yes. Downstairs at the roll-up door near the cargo office, if I recall.
That is hands-down the best way to do things. Also noteworthy is the fact that SFO airport does not have the TSA. They use the private contractor Covenant Aviation Services.
@@DeviantOllam private security are still held to the same federally mandated rules and procedures as tsa. Only difference is in name and uniform.
Exactly. In fact, even foreign countries are held to the same standards -- any country that doesn't use them is not allowed to operate aircraft in US airspace.
So if it is a gun case, wtf they expect to see then they open it? A fukin chicken masala?
@@andridcore8042 They expect anything and everything, up to and including a chicken masala. It is their job to make sure that you are not trying to transport something that you are not allowed to transport.
So yes, they expect a gun. Which is why they don't open it in a public location, and (ideally) they don't let the passenger open it themselves. But they're also make sure you're not smuggling Kinder Eggs or other forbidden items.
They tried this shit with me at Minneapolis. Had to explain to them that they were free to access my case without me present, but the moment they had access to my 11" barreled SBR and suppressors that THEY would be federal felons in posession of contraband NFA items, and as I am on a first name basis with many agents in the ATF field office in Minneapolis that they WOULD be investigated. Got them to knock their bullshit off real quick after that. MSP also does the bullshit "ziptie the case right in front of you at the baggage counter" crap, which lead to Delta calling the fucking cops on me as I cut the zipties right in front of them. I thought that was thoughtful, as I was demanding to know who in the baggage department KNEW I had firearms in the case in blatant contradiction to TSA guidelines and if they knew then they must have had ACCESS to said NFA items. Screw the TSA and the patriot act. Flying is just awful now. If my destination is within 1-2 days driving I skip it alltogether.
ok chief
Okay "fr33zy" is that ur codename brah
How do you know they didn't just x-ray your case and saw you had a firearm in it so didn't have to open it to know?
Can't you tell your friends at the ATF that "shall not be infringed" doesn't include restricting peoples rights if they can't afford to pay the taxes.
So they put a firearm on an airplane without the owner of the firearm and the firearm was locked with common key locks and this is a common practice for them?!?!?! That's appalling.
Correct on all points
I feel oh-so-very secure, now!
Jesus fuck. The TSA needs to be destroyed, down to the goddamn foundations.
jadefalcon001 so dose the federal government
@@DeviantOllam Didn't they say the locks they put on were NOT common-keyed, and you'd need to destroy the locks when you get your box?
jadefalcon001 the tsa was not actually created to keep anybody safe. In reality it was created to fill affirmative action positions and harass law abiding Americans while completely ignoring actual threats.
Tsa in a nutshell:
White 80 year old couple finally getting to take the trip to Hawaii they always wanted to but could never afford gets strip searched because of "random inspections". Middle easterner wearing shirt saying "desth to infidels" and carrying a "prayer rug" (aka: dirty throw rug) and muttering about how he'll show the infidels is apologized to for the long line and is escorted around the metal detectors & the xray machine.
The TSA is in violation of the Code of Federal Regulations; Title 40, Subtitle B, Chapter XII, Subchapter C, Part 1540.111 (c)(2)(iv) "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger
retains the key or combination." & 1544.203 (f)(2)(iii) "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination". This is why I carry a copy of those codes with me.
Dilly Dilly!! Well done.
DAMN RIGHT THE LAW BLACK AND WHITE PRINT. ONLY THE PASSENGER CAN RETAIN THE KEY OR COMBO.
Who holds them accountable? No one! The People have become weak, and just allow more and more illegal and unconstitutional crimes, by those they have entrusted to “protect” us. This is called Stockholm Syndrome!
I'm saving this. Thank you so much
@@abennett2783 In order for enforcement to occur you must contact law enforcement and inform them. I still believe it would only end in policy enforcement ( but you could ask to pursue a case, they probably won't try to do anything without you pushing for it )
Unbelievable. Nice job staying polite and calm.
After dealing with it 3 other times.. I would expect it.
@nymersic It's not hard when you turn emotionless. Get a soul crushing job and you'll gain that skill in no time.
@nymersic because getting at some people just makes it more difficult, and you'll get booted out the airport.
My thoughts exactly. Though I would have politely informed them to expect to be charged for their crimes. Folks simply won't get it until they realized there are repercussions.
Chris I don’t know if being rude and excited would be helpful
Idk why this was recommended to me but you handled that way calmer than I would have. I would have become a Karen
Never go full Karen. :)
TSA seems to have an unwritten policy of, "It's your problem.. Even when it isn't."
"Our fault, your problem."
So glad we gave the government control over this. If that was Delta or Airport controlled security; you could sue and be made whole, it's the TSA so you're f*cked. -- The fact of the matter is, if you need increasing laws to control a society, the society has either devolved into a subhuman state or the "leaders" are trying to oppress you further to break your spirit and kill a trusting society.
I was thinking back to the guy who shared at DEFCON that flying with firearms would protect your stuff. THIS IS THAT GUY!
Report the gun as stolen immediately.
And that it is currently on a plane. That should guarantee it never happens again.
@@pluto8404 and you probably wont ever fly again
@@tommyhairyeah7726 why not? Tsa opens your gun case, you have no idea where your gun is. Could be stolen amd on a plane
@@pluto8404 Hello I'm on flight #375 and my gun has been stolen....
@@G1AGAIN he's not on the flight..... *facepalm*
WTF? They can't follow their own rules but we, the sheeple, would be imprisoned if we didn't. All this for security theater.
Security theater? Who cares about that part? I'm more worried about the fact that they're a massive criminal organization that spits in the face of the Constitution. Kind of like the rest of the government.
Compared to the other thing, it's too insignificant for me to pay any attention to it. It's like worrying about a sore throat from breathing cold air while you're freezing to death.
Matthew Ellisor 1 ... theater for the sheep is all it is, the security is an illusion.
this is why i only travel by car and boat
If we are sheeple we should forget about all this petty stuff and get closer to the Creator of our world and us!
Mildly infuriating? Dude you're a saint. I would have been flipping tables over by the fourth time.
For real! Haha
I honestly don't know why he didn't call the cops (federal) at this point
You are probably the most respectable person I’ve seen in this position, I applaud you sir.
This problem predates TSA. Back in the mid 1990’s I stopped taking certain camera lenses as checked bags because every time I checked them some Federal agent would cut the locks off my camera cases. It only just now occurred to me that my Pelican camera cases are identical to cases used to carry guns, and that an extraordinary dense person could confuse a 1000mm telephoto lens with a firearm.
They run them through automated machines, and they take a normal xray and slices like a cat scan. Certain lense materials and dense metals cause these machines to alarm, which prompts a bag check. Policy states that if a check is called, it has to be conducted. So it isn't a case of people not knowing the difference, it's just that they have to finish the check once the process has started.
Funnily enough, I know several photographers that travel with a firearm in their camera gear very specifically. Their case CANNOT be "lost" or that company is in some major shit. Seems like overkill, but he's always got his gear when he gets to his destination.
@@SlightlyM3ntal wait so people carry guns with their cameras just to make sure it doesn't go "missing" since the airport would get fucked if a gun went missing?
Daniel Martin that’s actually genius
@Addict in case there was any confusion, a 1000mm lens isn’t actually 1000mm long; 1000mm refers to the focal distance, meaning the distance from the point where light rays converge to form a sharp image, to the sensor (or film). It’s a calculated value, not something directly measured. But I get your point!
The TSA should be disbanded. They have no idea what they're doing and overstep their authority whenever possible.
Lol I just got hired with the TSA
I resigned after new hire training cause the agency is the biggest joke in history
@@sirnuggets9666 Private Security at airports. They are so much more effective than the TSA.
all being done on purpose
I wouldn't say disbanded, but there should be a minimum IQ and logic test to be a TSA agent. They seem to hire any idiot these days who can't think for themselves. I will say that I once forgot about a knife i had in my backpack, which they correctly screened and founded during security. It was my fault for forgetting to put the knife in my checked luggage. Although I was a bit sad I had to leave the knife behind to board my flight, it was a silver lining to know that some TSA agents are doing their job.
So when they relocked the case. Was it with TSA locks? Because now you have a case containing a firearm secured in a manner that is against federal regulation.
alexander holladay My guess is zip ties. I’ve had that happen on a gun case... my lock gone, zip tie in its place. Infuriating!
They told him they just used tsa locks to resecure to case.
zip ties seem safe for a gun. Wouldn't want toddlers to grab that thing.
They also sent the case with TSA locks on the plane without him. lol
@@wobblysauce I don't reckon they were TSA locks. Cause he had no way to open them when he got there. If they were TSA locks they could have unlocked them at the airport.
They did that because you were recording vertically
And you write stupid comments because the nurse dropped you on your head :/
Ludvigdreng I don’t know what you’re talking about it’s what happens when you record vertically
HaloCartNinja Gamer eh
You approached it the correct way, not targeting the staff dealing with it, cause they were not responsible.
Way to speak up and you were respectful the whole time 👌
Thank you for pushing back and giving other the tools to do the same!
What you need to do is next time it happens and you are told that your locks have been cut, Instantly and in front of the TSA agent call the local FBI branch and report that firearms are "unsecured and loose somewhere in the airport". It is the honest truth at the time and it will light fires at the FBI to investigate and they are more than willing to arrest whoever did it and their supervisor. When asked why you called them just say you didn't want to be arrested for someone else's crimes.
IANAL, but, I would assume you will someday hear a recording of that phone call being played back in a courtroom, and be careful how you phrase things. For example, you don't know that the guns are unsecured and roaming freely around the airport - you know that a Delta agent (or TSA agent) TOLD YOU they cut the locks on your gun case - and you know the alleged lock-cutting didn't happen in your presence, which would be a violation of TSA rules - and therefore, based on what Delta/TSA has told you, you are concerned, as you cannot possibly know whether your guns are still secured properly or not. You don't even know at this point whether they're still in the case or not. That's the key - you don't know.
Also the courts have ruled that ignorance of the law is a justifiable defense for government officials. So good luck getting anyone fired or prosecuted.
GREAT idea... but I would look into it further
@@texasforever7887 yet that door doesn't swing both ways. Citizens can certainly be held accountable even if they are ignorant
@@SiFiFreak sadly this is true.
Huge props to you and the Delta staff for handling this like the professionals you all are. You better have gotten a check from the TSA for the destroyed property.
Wrong, don't make taxpayers pay for goon fuckups. Make the goons pay. It's goon's job to know the law, and if goon doesn't, and it costs money, goon should have to pay.
This guy has the patience of a saint.
This is why I used to carry a paper copy of the policies with me when I flew (2-3 times a week). Just for occasions like that, so when they say it’s not the policy, you hand it to them and say here’s the updated copy for your records.
Contacting the security director is a nice touch as well.
You think TSA cares or will read their own policies? Lmao.
It occurs to me to tuck a camera inside the case, and a big sign that says "You just committed a felony." ... and then submit the footage to your favorite lawyer for the lawsuit later.
Kind of unnerving that neither of them was familiar with the fact that TSA locks can't be used on firearm cases. Without them knowing the policy offhand, I wonder how many guns are successfully traveling with insecure TSA locks.
Its because the TSA isn't held to any accountability.
Yeah, that's SUPER fucked up. Ladies: FEDERAL LAW SAYS NO TSA LOCKS. FEDERAL LAW SAYS YOU HAVE TO CHECK FIREARMS. How in the FUCK does that TSA lady still have a job when she doesn't even know the laws she's supposed to be enforcing?!
Of course you can use tsa locks on firearms. Where did you get this information.
@@rogerthornsby7074 No the guy who posted the vid is absolutely correct. The only person who can be in possession of the key or the combination for a checked firearm is the passenger. If TSA needs access they are required to call the passenger who will open it for them and be present for the bag check. Feel free to Google the procedures outlined by the TSA for properly checking a bag with a firearm. TSA locks are not allowed on a gun case.
Joseph Cota I’m not trying to be difficult but do you have a reference on this. I use the tsa locks on gun cases all the time. It has been encourage at several airports and I know that their guidelines not only allow it but also encourage it. Unless this is a very recent thing?
The fact that by the end they still didn't seem to understand that you are not allowed to put TSA approved locks on a firearms case and that them relocking the case with TSA approved locks is against policy is astonishing to me.
That would mean they'd have to admit they were wrong, no can do.
When you realize they have been misreading their own policies for years and actually implementing them!
"is astonishing to me" it shouldn't, look at the quality of the agents... They might as well be saying "do you want fries with that" if TSA didn't hire them.
FYI "Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks." www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
CliffArt +
First off, policy is not law. That's why its not codified as a CFR.
The TSA policy is not in compliance with 49 CFR 1540.5. This needs to be corrected ASAP or sooner.
The wording that the TSA site uses, "SHOULD" is incorrect. Should is a best practices procedure. "SHALL" is a mandate.
Per 49 CFR 1540.5, section §1540.111
Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals. Paragraph (i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
At the point that TSA cut the lock from this case, they've broken Federal law.
Ignorance of the law doesn't pertain to most government agencies, so keep that in mind. You and I can't use the excuse of ignorance, but government employees aren't required to know all of the laws which they are charged with enforcing.
IMO, they need to bring their policy into compliance with the law, and retrain their employees. After retraining, if they continue to break the law, they should be prosecuted for violating federal law.
Wow. That's a level of stupidity you don't see too often. A firearm on an aircraft separated from its owner and secured using common-key locks, which will be arriving long before the owner..
Brilliant.
This guy puts 100 dollar abus locks on, the law prohibits common key (tsa) locks on firearms
@@freely124The tsa broke those locks, and sent with their own
I wonder if you can get a gun case where you can fit some really bad ass locks so they will rather call you then trying to cut through them.
NetAndyCz only if you want to replace the case instead of the lock.
@@spartan6273 -and sent their own - zipties
Deviant said they put fucking zip ties on it
Thanks Olga. One last thing: Would you spell your last name for me so I get it right on police report?
You were so much cooler about this than I would have been. How the eff did the let the plane leave with your bag on it without you? Seriously no bueno. Too bad: MCO is my favorite airport.
His patience level is over 9000!!!
What would have happened if one of the workers cut that open and decided, "Hey, you know who I really don't like? Everyone else I work with." This is not just a privacy matter, it's a safety matter.
Ammo must be separated
@@levigarrett180 alright then
Levi Garrett no, separated does not mean “different case.” It means unloaded in the original container the ammunition was purchased in.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 No, it doesn't. Similarly, ammunition needn't be carried in a separate checked bag. Here's the relevant federal regulation:
"(8) Small arms ammunition for personal use carried by a crewmember or passenger in checked baggage only, if securely packed in boxes or other packagings specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition clips and magazines must also be securely boxed. This paragraph does not apply to persons traveling under the provisions of 49 CFR 1544.219."
www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0e643a4dc787c2bebb8e96698e046b29&mc=true&n=pt49.2.175&r=PART&ty=HTML%20-%20se49.2.175_110#se49.2.175_110
TSA interpretation lays out more possibilities, allowing for the admitting to be stored in magazines:
"Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm. Read the requirements governing the transport of ammunition in checked baggage as defined by 49 CFR 175.10 (a)(8).
Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm."
www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
Airlines may have policies requiring ammunition to be in its original packaging. But that's not the regulation nor how it's been interpreted by the TSA.
bnctaj I stand corrected, yet technically right. It doesn’t have to be in a separate checked bag, merely not loaded :) I just went off what I knew from flying with *airline name here* and what they asked I do.
Or, you know, make it a policy to start calling the cops saying someone just broke into your gun case and there is now an unsecured firearm every time someone, you know, breaks into your gun case
How many times would "airline X agent creates security breach shutting down airport" have to be in the news before the asshatery stopped.
Oliver Krystal as it flys away...
@@OliverKrystal that's silly. Making things up doesn't help the matter, you just look like a loon. Nothing was stolen in this case, the legal issues are the destruction of the locks, and leaving firearms unsecured.
@@RobertSzaszIt seems to me tho' that he could made a good case that the firearms are now outside his control, through the deliberate actions of a third, trusted, party.
@@nicolek4076 yup, but that's different from being stolen. Even the locks weren't stolen. Stealing usually requires not only intent to permanently deprive the owner of the thing, but also some intent to take for your own use.
@@RobertSzasz putting your own locks on someone else's guns after breaking their own locks seems like it would fit that definition..
I love your response very informed and forceful in making sure they understand your issues and try resolve them but also extremely professional and polite
I watched your video about turning off your inner capslock earlier today and I just have to say that I'm absolutely blown away by your ability to take a breath, step back, and deescalate a situation that you are actively involved in.
Lots of backpedaling when you say you called the bag room prior to the bag on the belt. I travel for work all the time, and have had equipment go missing or get broken only to find a lovely parting pamphlet. I really enjoy your series on flying with weapons, and am considering doing it as well. Appreciate all that you do in order to keep us informed!
He has a video, it's like 50 bucks for an AR-15 lower receiver and it's declared a firearm.
waldosan it is a good watch.
@@gh0stmast3r yeah, just gotta keep up to date on which states, municipalities, and townships crap all over AR-15 lowers.
A couple years ago (and after watching Deviant's traveling with firearms video/powerpoint) I thought of packing a flare gun on a trip to California. Sadly, no go, CA has a prohibition on non-residents owning flare-guns or unregistered gun parts.
@@gh0stmast3r a cheap ass high point is more than enough. About $200-300. As someone else pointed out its a PITA to keep up with what states, counties and municipalities laws and ordinances regarding semi-auto sport rifles and their parts.
also, as a side, that TSA rep, other than just rolling out some well used lines, really seemed to lack what I would expect as the basic knowledge of the rules
+
Agree. She's saying they have to cut the locks if they aren't TSA locks when federal fucking law says they CAN'T be TSA locks. WTF lady. How do you even have this job.
At that point you need to ask if she is confessing to being a party to a federal felony? Is this your confession?
They took my cane. The second part of a round trip, returning home. On the way down it was fine but I couldn't bring it home. Not metal, not a sword, a medically necessary stick. They waited till I was on the plane and rushed me. It was the craziest thing. I thought about shitting my pants, making a scene but went home and started calling people in the TSA. I was apologized to but it was all kind of hollow. I consider it theft.
It *IS* theft!
Maybe they watched too much Lord of The Rings and thought it was a staff.
TSA tried to take Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca) light saber cane
@@mayalesovsky2764 Yeah, I don't fly with that one but put it in my baggage. On a side note they totally freaked when they found my wires and computer parts in my carry on and ripped off my cigarettes. It's like I was dealing with muggers.....Oh yeah and they xrayed the shit out of my laptop...This was all on the return trip. On the way out I could have had an atomic bomb and several elephant tusks. On the way out I had a shirt "Welcome to Glorious Kazakhstan" on and a beard..No kidding. I had shaved and had a polo shirt on the return trip.
worddunlap - they never screw with the people that look like terrorist, that would be profiling.
Everyone here except the TSA seemed very helpful and competent!
An actual crime that endangered thousands, this needs to reposted everywhere
The number of times you backed off your tone with the "I appreciate you listening", "You didn't do this", "you don't deserve this..", etc would've made me (at least when I worked in customer service) take you to the closest gun store and buy you a gun, case, and locks, then run down the runway and stopped your plane.
A LOT of people wouldn't have been as cool as you were.
I'm not sure if people realise this. Good customer service can, genuinely, go both ways. If you use some "customer service" practices when you are the customer (empathy, active listening techniques, remaining logical and calm etc), the outcome will almost always be better for you.
There an 80% chance he worked in some sort of customer service. People who have worked customer service usually remember what jerk offs people can be and at least try to be polite. Ive talked to phone reps and had to preface the call with "please don't take anything I'm about to say or how I'm going to say it personally. I know your not the one who screwed up but if I don't vent a little I'm going to explode"
@@SiFiFreak Yeah. I am almost certain that a big part of the way I treat service industry employees comes from the fact that I worked in service industries from high school through college.
@@enisylo , I have worked customer service as well. I still did MY JOB regardless of how well or poorly the customer treated me. In the incredibly rare instance when I was unable to do MY JOB I went to a supervisor. Yes, being treated poorly is in bad taste, stressful, etc., but doing YOUR JOB is what you get paid for. It may not be "your problem" on a personal level but because of YOUR JOB and the poor actions of YOUR COWORKER it is now "your problem". It's a shame the US has gotten to the point where others think if their feelings are hurt that it is a reasonable and valid excuse to performing poorly or stonewalling the customer to the point of costing them.
I didn't mean in the sense that if you act like an arsehole, you should necessarily expect someone to treat you like one (although in reality the chances of that also increase). I meant it more in the sense that if you approach it as a problem that needs to be solved, and being calm and communicating clearly will result in you getting what you want or need out of the situation far more quickly.
For example: if Deviant had acted, understandably, incredibly upset and kept interrupting these people while they tried to do their job that wouldn't result in him getting what he wanted any quicker or more effectively. It just makes everyone's experience worse.
I LOLED when you said "what would i do with a lock I cant open"
You liked that, eh? Me, too. :-)
@@DeviantOllam I was waiting for the video at the other end where you get your TSA key out.
If you aren't brain dead, call a locksmith like normal people?
@@robertkubrick3738 just checking but do you know who deviant ollam is? This is the guy locksmiths go to for help 😎 his question was purely rhetorical.
@@forric23 - Don't know, don't care. Got nothing to do with what I said. Want to inform me on who your proctologist is? Same thing, don't care.
I'm active duty military, I fly with firearms all the time. While they can search your luggage they are supposed to let you be present when they search your luggage when asked. I unlock the case, ask for a TSA rep and tell them (when I declare my firearms at the counter) I want to be present when they check my firearm(half the time it's military weapons) before locking the case. They have always brought me back to a screening area they check my weapons case and ammo(if I'm bringing it). Then I lock the case, thank TSA for helping me out and I'm off.
Jer F when do you fly with military weapons? It’s against SOP to transport military weapons or ammunition in any POV/non-govt vehicle so I find it hard to believe you’ve transported military weapons on a commercial airline.
Dylan Lewis well then it’s not a military weapon anymore. Military surplus sales of weapons only happen after a significant amount of time and after a weapon is reduced to civilian legal standards if it doesn’t already meet them. Which just makes it a firearm, not a military weapon. From the context that I understand he’s saying he brings his service weapon on commercial airlines sometimes which doesn’t add up. Weapons are issued to you from your unit and when you PCS to another duty station you are issued a weapon from that unit. The only person with authorization to allow weapons to be taken out of the armory is the unit commander and only for specific purposes like occasional maintenance, training, and range day. No commander will or should even allow a weapon to be taken home, into a POV, or anywhere other than training grounds. When a weapon goes unaccounted for the policy is to lockdown the installation until the weapon is found. That’s how serious the military takes it’s firearms.
@@cjpaulino6901 I've known a few that travel with weapons. Normally under specific orders or ravens.
This video taught me to hold my ground, refuse keys unless I am present, and make sure they are aware if they cut my locks thatthey will be felons.
"No one is above the law"
Best joke ever.
Have they said what they’re going to do about reimbursing you for the locks? I have switched to the Pelican “Air” series for the large containers which allows me to put Abloy 340 locks on them. Which means hydraulic bolt cutters or an electrical grinder to remove. I also have very clear guidance (as I know you do) next to the locks showing, “For Access call xx” so that it’s very clear. I also put name/add/phone where the case is going inside the trunk, take a picture of that with contents and then again with case closed and locked with date/time stamps to document everything. Last time I flew in FL, baggage had added those half inch zip ties around case “per their policy “. We’ve lost so many of our rights. There was a time you could carry on the flight with just your CCW creds. Even Police have to jump through hoops to carry onboard now.
Overall I think it's good to have stricter inspection rules for guns on planes.
@@JamEngulfer stricter like the video and many others in comments? Yea cause those stricter gun laws on planes sure stopped those bad guys with box cutters kill thousands huh?! Just saying that most of those policies are not for safety but to insure we as citizens behave and to how much we'll put up with before no more. No matter the laws today, something will happen to kill that security and TSA will just implement more and more laws that only restrict the rights/privileges of the citizens who use those services. We'll give TSA more power too. Need to stop being so comfy having "armed guards" protect us and protect ourselves together.
@@ediciusbizaar4977 Well, yeah. Now we've restricted taking sharp items on planes, no planes have been hijacked by people with boxcutters. In fact, we're now living in one of the safest times for plane travel ever. Since the massively increased security restrictions introduced after 2001, we haven't had a single hijacking of a plane going to or from US airspace. 2017 had zero deaths in commercial aviation. These are pretty clear indications that the policies work.
@@JamEngulfer The draconian policies are theater. The reason why hijackings are next to impossible now isn't because of TSA restrictions - it's because of the cultural shift that happened during the 9/11 hijackings. It used to be that if your plane was hijacked you'd most likely be delayed, and in the most extreme cases one or two passengers might die. People were routinely told that if a hijacking takes place, keep your head down, stay quiet, don't resist.
In an hour that completely changed. Now if someone tries to hijack a plane, the assumption is that everyone in the plane is dead unless they immediately rise up and fight. So how, instead of a plane full of people conditioned to be docile, any would-be hijacker is now facing 200 people who will literally charge into gunfire because they know that's their only hope. That's why the last plane hijacked on 9/11 never reached its target.
The TSA hasn't made anyone safer. The radical change in mindset has.
@@Datan0de Except there were still hijackings outside of US airspace in places where airport security is more lax. The security theatre doesn't necessarily have to be effective, it just has to stand as a deterrant.
As a former airline employee and a person who flies with a firearm 95% of the time. You are the most calm irate person I have ever seen in person or on a video.
I might recommend having the FAA and ATF local field office phone numbers on your phone for the next time this happens. When your told that the lock has been cut tell the person you are dealing with that you are reporting an unsecured firearm in the controlled/sterile area of the airport, as otherwise you might be held liable. Because worst of all in this instance is your unsecured/undersecured firearm flew to its destination without you and will enter another sterile environment on the other side and 1) you weren't present to claim it. 2) it's a security problem on the other side as well.
FAA doesn't care where the firearm is, unless it's being used to hijack a plane.
Get the number for the airline ops department, if you can (not the customer service, the aircraft dispatch). They provide a response to your completely true information that will result in all of the gate and TSA agents getting new training on how to handle firearms in checked baggage.
The way you handled the situation and your tone of voice was inspiring and helpful for me. This video literally helped me to try and be a better person by being understanding and calm.
That's very lovely of you to say. :-)
Why is he being so nice? We need to get rid of TSA. I haven't even dealt with this kind of thing and I refuse to fly anymore.
Yeah, my hats off to you for being so calm. I’m afraid my temper would have gotten the better of me.
Thanks!
A lot of that has to do with:
1. Understanding who really is at fault and who isn't
2. Knowing that you'll be taken more seriously if you're not shouting
3. I have a lot of privilege that comes from being financially secure and knowing that any damage caused will either be paid for by them or paid for by me but not be a hardship in either case.
Seriously. I need to hire you as my life coach lol.
I would've returned and start lighting up the place except for the nice lady
Thank you sir not just showing us the wrongs but telling us how to handle the situation if we are ever in them ourselves.
They're on the defensive. They are shifting blame and also showing that they don't even understand the law. Regardless of the law, they should have some concern for the major communication breakdown of something so simple that you went out of your way to spoon-feed them the easy parts of the process. And you are right, when " fetch my bolt cutters" is the first reaction there is a lack of training and knowledge of procedure. So many things wrong here. In the name of making people safe they have created a huge bureaucratic government tit for sometimes otherwise unemployable people to suck on and who have a disproportionate amount of power for the lack of training and concern that they have for others. When I moved into my house I had a lot of problems with a next door neighbor constantly fighting out in the street, selling drugs, assaults, everything. Guess who the owner of the house was? A TSA agent. The same person who had a SWAT team break into their house for her family's involvement in an armed robbery and drug bust is the same person who has the authority to not only go through my bags but seriously ruin not just my trip but arbitrarily put some sort of black mark on an unaccessible list that could affect my ability to travel forever. Just keep doing what you're doing: Stay polite, follow the rules, so that anytime somebody fucks up the onus is on them. Good luck and safe travels, you are doing a great service by doing what you can to fairly force accountability on the people that screw up. Otherwise it won't change. Once your bags are on that plane the plane cannot take off anyway. Stand your ground. They will try to make you feel bad and try to rush you but in the end your rights and the law is on your side ... hopefully there won't be a huge inconvenience or retaliatory consequences from that airport which from these kind of people can easily happen.
Edit: I didn't realize the plane took off with your luggage. OMG. Magna Carta bitches. The laws that they heavily enforce in the name of safety they didn't even follow when the plane left with the luggage of a passenger that did not board. I wouldn't even know where to start with Delta or with TSA or just walking to an attorney's office and show them this video LOL. Again, good luck.
+
What actual evidence does this video provide? Other than coversations. He needs to get the video from the luggage handling cameras. You know where Juan is.
The Airline Agents aren't responsible at all. The TSA is wholly responsible, and simply refused to send someone to talk to the victim.
How about "Hey, there's GUNS now flying unaccompanied. Think that might be a little fucking dangerous?"
Or even "Hey, there's baggage flying on a plane without its owner. Think *that* might be of a security concerning nature?!"
actually if it is possible to let luggage fly alone this way it would be a way of smuggling a bomb into a plane and then not fly in that plane...
Props to you for being direct, but respectful. I could tell you were trying your best to be professional and courteous, bravo.
Thank you
@@DeviantOllam Noting this was filmed in 2018, did it ever happen again?
It's funny when they think you have something you have a dozen guys around you, but when you need some help, nobody can be found.
Throwing TSA locks on a secure container creates an _unsecure_ firearm in the sterile area. Allowing the unsecured firearm to take flight on it's own exposes the destination sterile area to higher risk (they are not aware).
The amazing thing to me is how incredibly uneducated the staff AND TSA are on their OWN policies...! Why the hell is this allowed to happen...?! When they have a clear policy and the LAW requires you to do something a certain way, how can their own staff and (past) managers not be aware of this shit?
I need this fellow to explain to my wife why I needed to buy that new truck for christmas.
As someone who hasn’t had much parental guidance, I would really like to say how much I respect the way you handled the situation. You obviously have more than enough reason to be mad and frustrated and it showed, but with that there’s was a clear amount of self awareness that put yourself back in your place knowing that they didn’t deserve it. I think I could say just by this display of level headedness, you’d maintain the same respect in the even that they did deserve it. You seem to be a very good person and I thank you for the inspiration as I feel these days people with that same restrain from negativity are lacking and deserve the praise.
Deviant... OMG Sir handled like an absolute professional. I love your con talks and too see this side of you is amazing!!!! You sir are a true educator!!
You're too kind
So...they gonna replace the locks?
I'll would be suing them for damages and for compromising the safety of the firearm
@@England91 and you'd be wasting your money since a suit costs much more than a set of locks.
@@tomasxfranco US courts are joke. in not-shithole countries the loser pays the costs of winner in court.
@@tomasxfranco maybe, maybe not
@@atsnokki they would argue that they cannot know if a firearm is really contained and that they cannot locate the passenger... and honestly, no judge will loose his time for 2 locks at 10$ each...
Mad props to you Deviant for handling that situation like a pro. I would never be able to remain that calm knowing my baggage is travelling across the country unsecured and without me. I hope to see a followup article next time you fly through MCO and how that goes.
It's been a long fight with MCO about this... See the James Lyon clip in the previous article, claiming they wouldn't cut the locks but they did.
Please sue them to hell.
Suing the federal government? Good luck
Delta
It's not delta's fault, it's TSA being wetwipes.
The fact that they have blatantly ignored their own policies, destroyed personal property, and offer nothing in terms of compensation; against a man who is apologizing to them for having his rights violated, is outrageous.
If I travel by plane, I take my Sig P-250 apart and mail it to my destination except for the trigger assembly that I keep ( trigger assembly on a Sig-250 is the serial number part that's concerned the "gun").The T.S.A. is a joke.
Is on Smith pistols it’s usually on the frame isn’t it?
What’s the norm for what part is registered?
Usually the frame for handguns and Receiver (lower if applicable). What’s considered the “gun” is the part with a serial number on it.
Time to start carrying extra locks with you so you can get your cases home safely, dude. This is total BS, but it's clear they're not going to learn. You might eventually have to sue for the cost of those locks...what is it, about $1000 in Abloys by now? Or more?
I always have a spare pair of abloy PL321 padlocks in my carry-on at all times.
Sometimes we've used them at public accommodation lockers like at hostels and such in Amsterdam. But other times I have needed to use them mid journey when someone's locks have been cut.
@@DeviantOllam Sorry Orlando is so clueless, man. You shouldn't have to put up with that crap. Maybe they'll learn someday.
@@JennyEverywhere South Florida is willfully ignorant on guns.
@@TJackson736 far too much of the country is, sadly. I used to teach shooting years ago, but was disabled by an accident and no longer can. (Ironically, I suffered a broken neck because, while re-arming from my trunk safe after work, the trunk lid blew down on my head in a 40mph wind. The company didn't allow weapons, you see, and I needed the work.) Now I use lock picking, among other things, as physical therapy for my hands and my dexterity.
DeviantOllam do you give them the itemised bill for you time labour.
They should be prosecuted for breaking the law. Surely this is a felony. Were talking ATF FBI and FAA
Phil Swaim
Good luck- When’s the last time the ATF perp walked another alphabet soup agent? There’s probably some of their own agents they should start with.
Some animals are more equal than others
Corporation's make the laws anyway
This is the problem with any bureaucracy; the arm doesn't talk to the hand, which doesn't talk to the other hand which is doing a completely separate part of what is supposed to be the same task. It is a problem when the head of security knows the procedure that is supposed to happen and can recite it by memory, but the lower level staff of the same department don't follow it yet alone know the policy itself.
It shouldn't take (especially repeated) incidents like this for them to attempt to instill changes directly on a large scale; the policy was made to avoid garbage like this in the first place.
I wish I had your patience and self control.
Kind of you to say. And in all honesty, it comes from holding a lot of privilege... Knowing I have pull with the airline and that they kind of "have to" listen to me.
Not just anyone could do this and get a result. It is important, I think, to remain mindful of that.
They usually x ray my bags with my pelican with locks on them. They never ask to open the case, and if my gun was messed with, thats a federal crime. TSA should be held responsible.
Gee, they don't know the Federal Aviation Administation's policy for transporting firearms in checked luggage.
Shocking.
Damn. 4 times at one airport is a systemic problem. I’m glad you bring it up every time. It’s a very important issue and you rock!!!
They won't change their policy.
I bet there are pictures all over the bag floor at Orlando of your specific cases and contact info with the words "cut this guys locks no matter what."
Oh boy, it infuriates me that the initial response is along the lines of; "Oh well, we've put new locks back on.", knowing your talks I highly doubt they're an equivalent, whether they came with keys or not.
Deviant wrote they put zip ties on it
Based on TSA’s history, they’re more apt to steal your items than stop a terrorist. I was assaulted by TSA for opting out of their body scanner, so I no longer fly.
A Bennett I had a similar experience. A bunch of thugs high on their own small power.
You were way too polite here Deviant. Olga was flat out lying to you to avoid admitting they did something wrong. You were in no way rude or frustrated, you should have threatened to escalate further and requested to be reimbursed for the locks plus inconvenience, if they refuse you can bring them up on the violations of federal policy.
Just trying to make sure you're not smuggling bitcoins ;)
Ha
That's a goddamn throwback
ah of course, drug dogs must have smelled the bitcoins in his case ;)
So did they ever pay for the locks they cut off?
That's what I want to know lol
I think we both know the answer to that question.
Devient mentioned an incident like this in another of his videos, he said it took about a year and a month of trying but he eventually got a cheque for the cost of the locks.
Probably goes without saying, but Dev, you are the most cordial person I've ever seen dealing with frustrating situations via customer service. Even despite the infuriating situation and repeated offense. I worked in customer service for close to a decade, and can say that I would absolutely cherish dealing with any customer who is as kind and understanding of the position those agents and managers are in, despite the miscommunication and destruction of your property. I wish more people were as understanding.
Obviously, we all deal with situations that can be awful and frustrating, and sometimes it's the final straw on an already rough day, but maintaining composure is a skill that I value greatly in the world of customer service. It seems to be more rare than it should be. Each of us, whether we are customers or working in customer service ought to spend time reflecting on our actions, tone, and the larger situation.
The fact that you figure out and keep track of the names of people who you interact with is very inspiring, that's something I've always been bad at, but I think it goes a very long way when dealing with situations like this. Of course, maintaining composure is beneficial for helping to get what you want in that situation, but it also has the effect of making the situation at least somewhat less stressful and more manageable for the customer service professionals involved.
We all get into predicaments where someone makes a bad call, or isn't thinking, or thinks they're doing the right thing and are misinformed, and certainly there are some rare times when someone does something (like cutting a lock, for instance) with malicious intent, but the key thing to remember is that we're all human, we all have lives outside of these brief interactions we have with one another. Thank you for being so gracious in these situations.
Isn't this the second time this is happened to you. it's a joke should not happen why is it you know more than the people who should
it's more than the second time for me, and plenty more than that for my team and I together. But, remember, we are on a hundred flights or more per year. Eventually the number start catching up to you and we get to experience all the edge cases once in awhile.
DeviantOllam and you have the right numbers to call.
The reason why is training he has trained himself. Clearly the TSA doesnt provide adequate training. As a government entity it is just not working either the higher ups are next to useless and thats why they have very few properly trained employees.
@@Marin3r101 The TSA is a *huge* organization, that employs nearly 60,000 people, with a minimum requirement of a high school degree or GED. I'm willing to bet most hires are not going to stick around for more than a year or two, which means training all those employees is really expensive. There's going to be more than a few employees at each airport that are undertrained.
@@DrakonIL Have you looked at TSA's reports on its turnover rate? It's *astronomical.*
Check this out:
"The TSA employs a total of about 11,700 screeners at the 10 airports. The turnover rate across those sites ranged from 30 percent to more than 80 percent over the five years analyzed. Turnover among federal employees overall has hovered around 15 percent during the past three years, Hausknecht said."
www.bna.com/airport-screeners-often-n73014482630/
It's a fucking garbage organization, and the only people that stay are either idiots, or people unemployable anywhere else.
Next time you go through MCO have a bodycam going from the moment you enter, or just pointedly film the whole interaction with the check in process and tell them specifically that it is so you can later identify who has screwed things up. Knowing ahead there might be a sliver of accountability could make a difference in their willingness to actually do the job competently.
Let's say this was a layover, you now can't fly because you don't have locks for you gun case, your legally required to have standard non TSA locks on the case. You (at least as far as I know) can't usually leave the airport on a layover stop to get more padlocks. So what happens now?
They confiscate your firearms. That is the intent of every U.S. government agency. Their procedures supersede all laws and the United States Constitution. They are shielded from civil actions, also.
@@phlodel Believe it or not, the government is not out to take away your guns. This was clearly a case where people were insufficiently trained.
@@phlodel Yeah, no. They didn't cut the locks because ZOMG GUNS, they cut the locks because they're fucking idiots that can't pick up a phone. It didn't matter WHAT was in the case, they wanted to cut the locks because TSA fucks.
And that, everyone, is the correct way to handle issues at an airport.
What do you expect? They can't even keep your pet alive. WTF!
Are the locks "DEFCON lockpick village" certified? 🤣
Thoughtless people like those TSA agents that cut your locks are the same type of people that also seem to expect to make $30 an hour for such piss-poor decision making..
Some people have zero frigging critical thinking skills..
I’ve been browsing through your videos this week, extremely informative and entertaining at the same time. But this shows how kind of a person you are. This is how to be upset and polite at the same time. The ladies were indeed polite and helpful back, or at least so it seems.
Subscribed and hooked! Thanks for everything, Deviant. Cheers from France :)
That's very kind of you to say... Thank you! (And thank you also for watching and enjoying the content here)
You're way to nice, I would be beyond pissed if they did that more than once. There would already be a court case in the works.
That smug look at 11:45 just made me more pissed.
TSA / CBP training is spotty at best. I typically lock all 4 locking holes (NANUK case) with their TSA lock. I know I am supposed to be the only one with the key, but they are TSA combination locks, and whatever. Always insist on Special/Oversized baggage handling, and make sure the bag clears x-ray and security before you do. Sometimes they ask you to wait for the baggage to clear and OK before you head off to the passenger screening line.
Thank you for the video man I am also firearm owner I have not needed to fly with my firearm but this video is very helpful for future travels