Problem is I don't want the expense of buying all new lens and my clients don't care whether I shoot on a mirrorless with quiet lens, and I don't do videography. Still don't like EVF, had one. The focus on the d780 is amazingly fast. Your v8 example is a good one. Two card slots are a necessity. Also, with trade in and rebate paid $1,450. To replace all my existing lens that take excellent pictures I would need to spend around $15k. Yes I could get the FTZ, but mirrorless is only really complete with Z mount lens. For photos, the old lens work well. Tired and come and gone doesn't make the photos look any less good as prints, not zoomed in pixel peeping. I use my 50mm D often and most importantly, I have a 105mm D2 DC lens. To move to the 105 1.4 is costly when my D2 lens is exceptionally good. I can't imaginge how much the Z version will cost when it's made. You've got to show me more than "get on the band wagon", "it's the future". I shoot today and prove to me that my wedding clients will ask me if I have a mirrorless based on photos that they have examined giving them a passion for mirrorless. In short, for my uses, it is way more cost effective to buy the d780 than the z6. I know Z lens are the cat's meow, but will a z6 photo in print look different from a high quality F mount to the client, even if I can see some difference. As far as video, if I ever decide to do video, I may buy a camera that is totally dedicated to video (who am I kidding, I'm never going to do video, I just don't like video). Most of your review seem to focus on the video aspects of going mirrorless.
I feel the same as you my friend. I have a lot of full frame Nikon glass, to go mirrorless would be very costly and I’d lose my buttox in selling all my current glass to start over with s Mount glass. If I dump my d750 it’ll be for a d780.
Those old AF lenses ARE a big problem, because they are AWESOME, but, they won't autofocus on the Z bodies. You showed us how that 50mm focuses in D780 live view, which was always Nikon's weak side. That would never stop many of us to still use them with the optical view finder. Those older lenses are THAT good.
My thoughts. The Z6 is a great camera and I love mine. But the D780 does have a few advantages like you mentioned The dual card slots. Access to more native lenses (not needing an adapter) and being able to AF older screw drive lenses No viewfinder lag with shooting because it’s optical which is one of my issues with the Z6 when shooting weddings The D780 has a much longer battery life Oh and the D780 will most likely perform better with AF especially in low light as DSLR is still the king in acquiring AF in low light situations. These aren’t things to be taken lightly for professional work. But with all that being said. I love my Z6 and have no plans on going back to DSLR. And yes you do have a mirrorless agenda. Great job.
Photo-Me-Ike i hate that I am even saying this it af-s is good in low light. If feel like I should be shooting nothing but af-c in mirrorless. Damn you Sony.
I was looking to upgrade from my aging D7100. I wasn’t impressed with the D500 or D750. I have too many F mount lens to drop them for a mirrorless. When the D780 showed up, I knew this was the upgrade I was looking for. I’m satisfied with my new purchase.
Wissell, not the least bit. I rented one and it wasn’t for me. I kept my D7100 and waited for something more substantial. The D780 fit the bill and was so glad I didn’t make the mistake of getting the D500 or D750. Very happy with my choice and totally impressed with the D780.
Wissell, I rented the D500 and took RAW photos along with my D7100 and compared them side by side and didn’t see much of a difference in ISO performance and the D500 had a lower resolution of the same subject. The mechanics of the the D500 were superb, but in the end the visual image wasn’t to my liking. The D750 had superb imaging, but didn’t care for the mechanics. The D780 has both and an awesome LiveView capability similar to the mirrorless cameras. Hence, patience is a virtue and I am quite satisfied with my purchase. Hope that clarifies my decision.
Just downloaded iso comparison Z6 raw files. Omg that Z6 handles high iso incredibly well. There is virtually no color shift. Zoomed in at 100% the noise looks very similar at 51,200 compared to 1,600 on my Fuji xt2. And that has very good noise performance for an apsc camera. Beside that the Fuji detail goes to mush and the Z6 holds detail very well. Impressive.
Hi Jeremy. Great review. I have been studying both of these two cameras and comparing them to the D750 that I currently own. Regarding the image quality, I have noticed one difference. In raw files from D780 and Z6, of short exposure images that have bright areas and very dark shadows, when I increase the shadows over a certain point, I start seeing red and green pixels in the dark areas, same red and green pixels you see when you do long exposure photography. Whereas in my D750, even the darkest blackest shadows, no matter how much I brighten them, I will never see such red and green pixels. Do you know why is this happening? Is it because the sensor of the Z6 is hotter because you use it all the time cause of EVF and live view? And what about the D780 that had the same sensor? Anyways, I have noticed it a lot from all the sample D780 and Z6 raw files I studied and I haven't seen anyone mentioning this. To me the shadows of my D750 are more beautiful that what I have seen from raw files from (especially) Z6.
Thanks for the video Jeremy. Pity about the D780 focus noise on video. I’ll be sticking with my D750 & D850 for the time being. Maybe I’ll look at 2nd gen Nikon mirrorless when released 👍🙏
I Just upgraded from my 750s to 780s. Seriously how much technology to you need? I have used my old glass on them and focusing is fine! the tracking on Live View is amazing!! you push on the eye and takes the picture EASY!!! Great! low light. I dont need IBIS because my lenses are VR!! and I dont use it for video anyways I have Sony A7III. Lenses that have responded well are 35mm 1.4, 16-35 f4 VR, 24-70 2.8 G ED IF VR, 70-200 2.8 VRII. even the nifty fifty 50 1.8D. Its enough for blogging or convenient video clips. I wouldn't use it for Video for weddings or big jobs. But its still amazing! PLUS!! no dual card slot for Z! which is risky even if its an XQD. Better safe than sorry! batteries from 750 can also be used for 780!
I find the AF on the D780 to be basically a D850 with fewer AF points. For that, it's a winner to me. Add to that I already have a bunch of nice F-mount lenses. I didn't find the Z6 as responsive or snappy through the viewfinder, so I returned it.
We shoot weddings every week on Nikon bodies and I just want to point out that the color profiles on the Z series is much different than that of the dslrs. Shooting both in raw the colors seem much better on the D750 & D780 than the z6, z6ii and z7. None the less pictures are great on both.
For years shooting weddings, HS reunions and fashion shows, I used a D3 backed up by a D700. The D3 was set to overflow onto the second CF card but it never did. The D700 had only one card slot but i never filled a card. So the single card on my Z7 or someone’s Z6 would probably make little difference unless maybe they are into using one slot for RAW and the other for JPG versions. Which I never had reason to. A very precise review, Jeremy. I’m now subscribed.
Interesting... I've just switched back from a Z6 to a D780 - Battery life, not a problem, I have multiple batteries so just swap if needed, but I don't often shoot more than 300 frames in a day anyway... Card Slots... I will admit, I was bothered by the Z6 only having one slot, but I have been using the same XQD card that came with the camera for 2 years now and not a problem - For me, the deal breaking problem was keeping the damn sensor clean!!! There needs to be a method of protecting the sensor while changing lenses
That's what I thought too initially but lets just say that lots of behind the scenes testing is currently underway. Another video is forthcoming, you may be surprised by what we have found. ;)
z6 does 3d tracking too. Could have been there but I noticed during version 3 firmware. hit the f1 or ok button and it triggered into 3d tracking. You still need to set up auto area and back button etc.. Guess the d780 has the same z6 milc af plus dslr.
Using MF lenses on the Z bodies is such a joy thanks to the focus peaking and magnification. On traditional DSLRs, nailing focus with today’s focusing screens is extremely painful.
True, manual focus on DSLRs is a pain, especially for moving subjects. But you can get aids such as viewfinder magnifier and focusing screen designed specifically for manual focus lenses.
Liveview on the D780 has focus peaking that works identically to the Z6II and it is very good. I have both cameras and use them in photoshoots. I love what each brings to the table in a shoot. Identical sensors so the resulting IQ is the same. I can be a little more creative with the Z6II because of wysiwyg. I will keep both for their different advantages like using my DC 105mm.
@@nathanielcashjr.732 Nope. To have focus peaking on a D780 you have to use the rear screen and hold the camera like a smartphone in Live View... not very comfortable if you ask me. Ex owner of a D750 here, quite familiar with its weight and size when attached to a lens.
I’ve been running a D7200 and D500 with a couple of Sigma lenses and a Tamron and I’m upgrading this year. I’ve held off because I didn’t want to invest all F Mount series, and I would go full in on mirrorless except the single memory card is a deal breaker - only because I shoot sports and corporate events mainly and I can’t risk a potential failure as I don’t get to reshoot. If I was in the studio all the time I’d go balls deep straight away. I’m hoping that they release the rumoured Z8 and Z70 (D500 mirrorless equivalent) with dual slots, well at least one of them this year and I’ll be all the way in for sure with the z lenses.
the last time I had a card issues was the d7000 writing to both sdcard. But I knew something was wrong, it was freezing. I chuck tha cheap sd card it it fixed the issues. Only corrupt sdcard was back in 2000 when I place it in some old computer that just chew it up. I been using my d750 dual slot as overflow.
One of the most important things of a camera for me is the battery life and the D780 has a battery life of 2300 shots while the Z6 a battery life of 300 shots. That's just an insane diffirence.
Great video, nicely produced, good content. My D750 got smashed to bits a few months ago and I had the choice of going to the Z6, D780, or another D750. I went for the D780 because I wanted to be able to continue to focus my D lenses, and also because I don't like using EVF for my manual lenses. Yes, the focus peaking and viewfinder zoom on the Z6 would be nice, but I actually don't like the "what you see is what you get" aspect of the mirrorless. I actually like having a light meter and adjusting my exposure based off that, by seeing through the lens. It just feels like you're more in the moment, and can feel and anticipate what is going to happen and what the end image will feel like. Furthermore, I really like my existing lens collection and don't think they can be replaced by anything in the Z line up at this time or in the near future (and when more interesting lenses do appear, I very much doubt they will be within a comfortable price range). So even with my G lenses, I'd have to use the funky FTZ adapter and then, what is the point of having the smaller form factor when you have to work off balance with the extra bulk sticking off the front of the camera. I don't think I will ever part with my Nikkor 35mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 DC - they're just too good with the AF capability, for what I like to do in my photography. Using them with a DSLR is a joy I cannot see being emulated with the Z system (yet). That said, if and when they release an adapter that will allow a light metering with manual lenses and the ability to autofocus my D lenses, plus the battery life will be comparable with DSLRs, then I might make the switch. But until then, I'll stick with the DSLR range. The D780 is a really nice camera by the way. I guess the Z6 has the same sensor, but the high ISO is INSANE. I can go to ISO 12800 and make beautiful images with virtually no noise. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the only fault with the D780 (and it's a big one) is that there is no battery grip of any sort to mention and as the D780 doesn't have any base contacts, one is unlikely to appear any time soon, let alone the prospect of seamless vertical controls. When I saw that, I couldn't believe it and will never understand why Nikon decided to gimp the camera in this area. Other than that, and speaking personally, the D780 is a far superior camera than the D750, and I am very happy to continue to use it for many years more. Dedicated Nikon users live in interesting times and I very much look forward to seeing what Nikon produces, both in terms of their future lenses and cameras.
Thanks for the feedback, you bring up some interesting points. It's worth mentioning that you can disable the WYSIWYG aspect of a mirrorless camera and use the meter just like with any other camera. 😉
good points, being a D750 owner I would likely also go down the D780 route. battery life for ages, good hybrid system, FX lenses without adapter, why not enjoy DSLR for some years? (And I have a mirrorless Fuji X system)
For people focus on still photography, a D750/D780 with "retired" AF-D lenses will be adequate for most occasion, the bottleneck is not with camera anymore. The new hybrid shooter starting off their journey, there is little reason to choose Z over A7 III.... PS, A lot of 60 year old lenses still have their charm for photography, please age doesn't make them obsolete. Otherwise the best is to just get an iphone 12 pro and forget camera at all. They are the newest and the future... Thanks for sharing the opinion. It is fun to watch.
Great review! just a few points to mention: To eliminate the noise from FX lenses, just use an external target mic that is raised above the camera. Of course for hobby consumers, they might not want to use one. An advantage of the D780 is for capturing fast action sports and birding with the phase detect of photo still mode is faster and more accurate than z6. This mode gets the AF upgrade of the D5 according to Nikon site. D780 is for people and pros who like OVFs, have a lot of FX lenses, need the speed of AF for fast action sports, birding. D780 has electronic VR stabilization for video which from recording from a stationery postion this works well zooming and panning, while if walking with camera the Z6 5 axis stabilization is much superior for run and gun video, however some pros use stabilizing rigs with D780. Weight wise on body the z6 with FTZ is 800grams vs. D780 body with battery and card is 840grams, while z6 with no adapter is 664grams. Z lens don't have VR stabilization so they are lighter than FX lenses with VR. I would say for most consumers and hobbyists, semi-pros and pros embracing full electronic mirrorless z6 and z6ii is the way to go. For pros who prefer using DSLRs with the benefit of a z6 sensor live-view video mode, perhaps the D780 makes sense.
how does that specific glass convince you? im upgrading from my first DSLR a 5100. iv just broke my sigma 17-50 f2.8 so im limited to only a 70-300 fx as my only good lens)other than the kit 18-55mm) so its pretty much a brand new set up ill have, I love airshows and landscape so i feel like id need both a wide-angle may be the 24-70 or a prime and the ftz for my 70 300 but i want to get the sigma 150-600 so all of that adds up. if i cand o that without the ftz I feel id win. I'm at a total loss for the comparison really, as both the 780 and the z6ii ticks my boxes other than the cost of those new lenses.
Prefer the D780, mainly for the OVF. Can't stand the lag on the EVF, and the waviness of the image when fast panning. Also prefer a larger size body, the Z6 body too small for larger hands.
One thing you missed was Nikon d780's autofocus with its OVF is much much much quicker than any Z bodies. I am not sure if the new Z9's auto focus speed is faster than my D5, D4s or D780. I use my Nikon DSLRs for fast action photography. For anything else, I use my Leica SL, Leica M240, or Sony A7 III or Olympus EM5 Mark III so I like mirrorless cameras as well. However, not the Nikon Z6. With my Nikon gear, I would am very happy with my set of F mount lenses. I like the output but more importantly my clients like the output.
thanks for this video... i will upgrade to d780 because i love dslr build quality the weather sealing , 2 memory cards , the more sense of use F mount natively and lenses availability Z mount very poor at the moment and over priced and the size of dslr i want to grab real camera
"shackled" is not a word I would use in connection to a back catalogue of excellent nikon lenses for a fraction of the cost of these plastic computers with built in motors. I couldn't care less about motor noise either. Let the vloggers worry about motor noise.
Umm your using an old D lens of course it’s gonna be noisy but the glass is superior to zs they actually use less glass and more plastic with the new ones I’m good with F mount for the win
I've been shooting commercially with two 750's for 5 years and I've swapped one for a Z6 and I think for me it's about thinking ahead. Mirrorless is the future and not only that, the Z has 5 axis image stability not to mention being better value for money.
I Will eventually go mirrorless in a few years but really can't justify wiping all my F mount lenses for a Z mount equivalent, will probably havecto settle with an FTZ adapter. Right now I shoot with a D750 and D610....I'm eyeing a D780 or a D850 as the sbsolute LAST DSLR that I'll ever own.
You did not track subjects, you were thinking of video with the vintage lens. Clearly if one is going to shut video the Z6 is better. If someone buys the D780 be assured that it won't be to shoot video only or mostly for that matter. Firmware 3.0 could render the D780 useless, but if it fails once we start seeing actual results (it sticks the box like crazy, but I have not seen the actual pictures) then the D780 will be a better photo tool.
Watching the videos of the Z6 when it first came out reviewers commented how in low light the photo autofocus was slow and hunted. Has this been improved in the firmwares or is it still behind in this regard. I kind of want the Z6 but not if it struggles trying to focus indoors or in less than ideal light conditions. Thanks
I still need to spend a bit more time with the camera on the newest firmware but lets just say I am glad I didn't jump to conclusions as much as some folks when the Z6 was first launched. 😉 Hooking up the Atomos Ninja V and doing an AF test with the Z6 sounds like it could make a good video.
No problem with the low light focus on my Z6II. Same speed as my D780. You have to learn how the focus works on the Z6II and know what setting to use given the circumstances.
Interesting review but very unbalanced as it is too video centric. Unless you want video beyond anything basic you don't need mirrorless. DSLRs are for photographers and if you don't shoot video are the better option. Better handling, much longer battery life, better viewfinder, same image quality. I've shot both D780 and Z6II and the image quality is identical at low and high ISO, but the DSLR is a much better handling experience. There is such a thing as too small a camera. If I were to buy a new camera again now it would be a DSLR again as I'm only interested in photography. Take a walk round a major tourist city (when you can) and see how many people are using mirrorless (almost none) but Canon and Nikon DSLRs are everywhere.
Haha great video but no way I am trading 50/1.4D for the G variant of the lens. :-) It is my all time favourite lens and D780 only breathed new live into it. Modern Nikkors are great universal performers but they lack the character (imperfections which can be used creatively) of D lenses. Imho, you should ideally capture the sound externally in video and loud autofocus is not that big of an issue then.. but I am not saying that D780 is better than Z6 at all: it all comes down to personal preference and how much value you put to those little differences these cameras have :-))
You definitively shouldn't trade your 50 F/1.4D for the G... the 50mm F/1.8 S on the Z6 is what I was hinting at. 😉 I have owned all the Nikon 50mm 1.8 and 1.4 G/D lenses. Perhaps I need to round them all up and do a comparison with the new S...
DSLRs are just sexy, i find the weight, bulkiness and noise of using one to be a positive factor. Also, if you pay $2000-5000 on a camera body, would you want it to be the size of a toy camera?
I understand where you are coming from, that's just like the I really love the sound of a V-8 engine compared to an electric car analogy. I haven't always been a big mirrorless supporter but the tech has simply evolved, I for one am glad it did. It's a shame I don't shoot many weddings these days (or maybe not really) because it's much easier with lighter cameras. The last two weddings I did I used the Sony A9 and it was nice not having pain from carrying my Nikon DSLR bricks around all day! I don't really care if someone perceives the camera I use as a "toy" or not as long as it's reliable and comfortable for me to use. My clients know that a child isn't at play when they see my images. 😉
Shooting weddings the ability to use eye AF with the screen or viewfinder is something I feel is a big asset on the Z6. You also don't have the narrow focus point spread of the D780 to contend with. The only thing that would push me to the D780 would be if I had a lot of older Nikon (non AF-S) lenses or if I really... really needed two cards slots. As far as dynamic range they are practically identical since they are essentially using the same image sensor.
Nice review Jeremy, i have D750 and i was thinking the same as you, Price wise and futureproof Mirrorless is go to option, thinking selling my F mount glass some of them :-(.
I use my f mount on the z6, adapter works well. I don't care if people say adopter aren't cool. It works and I don't lose money selling and rebuying. I only add to my lenses collections. Growing over 10.
@@CJ-dk7hc I have the z6 since it released and the only z lens I have is the 24-70 f4 as a walkaround. I used the Nikkor 50mm f1.4, 85 f1.4, Tamron 70-200 f2.8, 35mm f1.4, 24-70 f2.8, 90 mm macro. Tokina 16-28 f2.8 and even my old have broken Sigma 85mm f1.4. I done skateboarding with the 70-200, seem to work well. My old screwdriver AF 80-400 didn't work for obvious reason as it was a screwdriver AF (D lenses). There are no real differences between f mount on DSLR or Z MILC. I read the report it might be a tad slower on some lenses, but I haven't noticed it. My d750 Af area is too small now so why I don't use it much. I do more off-center shots with a 90% AF coverage area for engagement. I am waiting on the Z lenses 50mm f1.2 or one of the telephoto lenses since my old 80-400 only works only on DSLR with a screwdriver AF.
12 frames/sec using the live view screen is not a plus for me.. it is virtually impossible to shoot moving wildlife in live view and who needs 12 FPS for landscape photography. I’ll stick with the D500
How can you say that the z6 is a better option. A camera that does not have a great selection of lenses available for people who are beginning in photography. The few lenses that exist are extremely expensive and there are no lenses of other manufacturers. The D780 has a large range of Lenses available from third parties companies. Plus is a F mount camera with a great video AF.
Long-term gain outweighs short term inconvenience IMHO. Also nearly all those lenses (even most 3rd parties) work perfectly with the Z6 + FTZ today... and a person would have the option of the Z lenses tomorrow. If it were 2004 right now we could choose to buy a brand new F6 or a D70... I wonder which of those choices turned out to be the better long-term option...🙃
Z for ZERO because that’s how many other camera systems Z mount lenses adapt to. If you have a collection of F glass it makes zero sense to switch to Z Mount particularly if you have AF-D classics that will never appear in Z mount like the 105/2 DC and 135/2 DC. The D780 is really two cameras in one. OVF and LiveView. Plus no ridiculously expensive cards to buy. Incidentally the 50/1.8D you were holding at the end has not and likely will never be beaten in Z mount for lower size and weight and bang for the buck.
I`ve got a nikon d780. I will not choose z6 because I can shoot arount 2700 frames without need to charge battery. The worst is the weight. Problably my second camera body will be fuji xt 30II or fuji xe 4 (weigth around 380 grams).
I need a second full frame body and very badly want to get a z6. I have a d850 and a d500 and there there are a few reasons why I’m hesitant to get it. 1) ergonomics. DSLRs are just made become an extension of the photographers hands. I can change almost all my setting with butting on my cameras without ever having to look at an LCD which “keeps my head in the game” and not looking at the camera screen. I have tried the Z6 and even with practice this may not be possible. 2) af-D lens autofocus. I use manual lenses all the time but my best is an af-d Nikki 105 f2 DC. I don’t need fast AF, but no AF for portraits is.l not acceptable. The 105 f1.4 is trash and I would never give up the F2 DC. 3) there is no reason to “upgrade” to new Z lenses. I have found that while these lenses are sharp sharp sharp, they have very little (if any) character to them. F mount lenses are not perfect, but that is what makes the images amazing. (This is for artistic type work like portraits, landscapes, weddings, beauty, macro, era only. I understand for realistic work like architecture, real estate, product photography, or reproduction). 4) no 2nd card slot... but you did mention that... if the 780 had IBIS and grip compatibility, I would bought it already... right now I’m torn...
I don't have a problem with adjusting my Z6II without looking at the live view screen. You see the same thing in the EVF and it doesn't take too long to get muscle memory on the buttons. I have AIS lenses like the 105mm F2.5, 50mm F1.2, and the 50mm F1.4 that I love and they work very well on the Z6II, particularly because of focus peaking - and the in-body stabilization gives me much better results. I have a 35mm F2.0 that I love for its character. However, my 35MM F1.8 S lens has an amazing look beyond sharp, sharp, sharp in my opinion. Different from my 35MM F2.0, but just as pleasing for its own character. I'll also point out that I have a D750 and D780 that I will not trade. All three are great in their own way and I take the D780 (i.e. DC 105MM F2.0) and use it with the Z6II. My wife uses the D750 with me for weddings. The overall results are excellent.
Just out of interest? I know the Z6 and Z7 aren't Autofocus compatible with most of the earlier generation Tamron lenses (pre G2 series) and Tamron won't be offering firmware for these. Since the D780 has most of the workings from the Z6 does this issue still follow through to d780 in live view mode??
I have one tameron pre g1 and it works fine day 1. The g1 lenses (24-70 and 70-200) works fine too out of the box day 1. The g2 had issues and those were the one tamron fixed (my 35mm f1.8 prime). I have 2012 sigma and they work. no more issues with 3rd party lenses. Only lenses that don't work are the old af-d with the screwdriver body AF.
@@xophaser, thank you for your reply. That's good to know. I have both the 24-70 and 70-200 di vc usd models and first generation 15-30 f2.8. I found out they were not fully compatible with z6 and z7. Only offering manual AF and Tamron is not offering firmware update for first generation. It just seemed logical that the issue may be inherent in the d780 and future d880, since they use z6 and 7 sensor and circuitry. It might be more related to an issue with the FTZ adapter telemetry rather than cameras.
To your question on focusing the D780 in live view, I have the D780 in my hand with a DC105mm lens that uses a screw drive. In live view the focus is snappy. I have an earlier Tamron SP 17-50 lens F2.8 (crop sensor) that will focus with no problem on my D780 and my Z6II with the FTZ.
@@nathanielcashjr.732 Thank you. That's good to know for future references. I've since sold off all my Tamron native f mounts holy trinity in favour of the new Nikon s series holy trinity.
The D780 is, of course, for those who have a lot of F glass and will not be lured into, for years and all over again, spending thousands of dollars to invest in S glass when quality difference is zero.
The Z 6 has no built-in flash, very poor battery life, and only one memory card slot. Three major drawbacks for me, someone who doesn't want to carry an external flash and a few extra batteries all the time, and likes the built-in backup memory card. The D780 not withstanding regarding flash. I prefer the D750 to both, as I almost never shoot video. Now do something about the dismal battery life of the Nikon Z series cameras, and give us a built-in flash, and dual card slots, and I'm there. The Z 50 doesn't count in my book, regarding the built-in flash, as I don't want a DX cropped sensor camera.
Are you basing your conclusion on your own use or the CIPA numbers? A long explanation is needed but keep in mind that real-world battery life for a camera like the Z6 is very different than the CIPA numbers. Most users including me see 1,000+ shots on a charge from the Z6. This holds true with other FF mirroless cams too (A7III, EOS R, etc).
I am wandering, how useful is live view on the D780? I don't see myself holding a DSLR in front of me to benefit of the more focus points etc. I hardly shoot video
I have the D780 and Z6II. I use both in event photography. The live view is very useful. The live view on either camera allows me to get angles for compositions that I cannot get using the OVF or EVF. If I'm shooting the Blue Angels, I will use the OVF of the D780, but the Z6II EVF gives me the same results.
can you remake this bu t for the z6ii? as in most of the downfalls of the z6 seem to have been removed other than the increase in cost. i realy cant tell which i want other than the missing lense i want for airshows
Enjoyed your video but the 105mm DC AF-D and 180mm 2.8D are still gorgeous AF lenses that I want to use af for video. I have the 85mm 1.4G so I don't feel the need to get the 105mm 1.4G and there is no direct replacement for the 180 2.8 yet. I could get manual focus for the 180 and use the old 105 2.5 ai-s autofocus but this is an awkward transition time.
Jeremy, you are awesome, and your videos Rock. However, I respectfully disagree with putting old lenses to rest. Please check Ken Rockwell video on the Z6 using old vintage lenses; he uses many other adaptors. His video was the selling point for me to buy a Z6II. Once again, truly enjoy your content just disagree with the lens advice
D780 is a good camera but I will get the Z6 because of the spread of autofocusing points. This spread makes it easier to use when doing weddings. D780 still has the clustered autofocusing points from the D750.
If you're shooting the D780 in live view the spread of autofocusing points is the same as the Z6II, but not in the OVF. I have a Z6II and a D780 and in live view, I see no difference in the focusing performance at all.
And mirrorless will always be a smaller and lighter system for amateurs, professional photographers will never want it... The horse and buggy will never be replaced by the automobile... And of course the president of IBM Thomas Watson was correct when he said that there was a world market for only 5 computers... Once tech allows for better energy density in batteries and better mass production EV's will be just as ubiquitous as all the other tech we enjoy today that seemed impossible not so long ago. 😉
Testing noise - was this a hi-fi test? Yeah, it was an annoying mirrorless push. My big hands definitely prefer DSLR rather than a wee camera. I can't afford to replace my quality glass. Oh yeah, I don't do video.
I love Nikon but we have to be honest. The Z lenses have no design character whatsoever. They just look dull when comparing the look of the lens to the Gold labelled lenses of old. The box designs are also a downgrade in design compared to the Gold boxes of old. Some sneakers come in nicer designed boxes like Jordans 😅
I agree, even the fact that the current primes are F/1.8 is a bit of a marketing fail IMHO. The lenses perform excellently and are well made but it's hard to sell them as high-end when they are so bland and when we have been conditioned to see F/1.8 lenses as a "bargain" option. With that being said try them if you haven't had the opportunity, marketing and design missteps aside they really are impressive lenses.
nice review! Im thinking to upgrade to Full Frame now i have a D5300 and D7200, i was between D750 and Z6, the problem that i have that here in Argentina the camera cost 3 times more than USA :(. Sorry About my bad english, i speak spanish.
@@darekm6859 Thank you! For sure ill get a Nikon D750 or if i can a Z6 cause i need 4k video recording for my work PS: Sorry About my bad english i speak spanish.
I agree and you could also continue to ride a horse instead of driving an automobile.. but of course this isn't the best thing for the majority of folks. DSLR use will soon join horsemanship and film photography in becoming a small niche. No camera company is actively developing new film bodies, soon that will be the case for DSLRs.
@@JeremySmithPhotography I agree that eventually, mirrorless will be the main cameras used by professionals very soon and much slower for enthusiasts. Here an analogy, internet shopping was going to completely take over brick and mortar malls 20+ years ago. Malls are closing left and right, but 20 years later you still have a few. The change came when a generation that was school-age grew up with a different learned mindset. The change happened slowly. The malls didn't immediately close at the start of the internet shopping (i.e. Amazon). The F-mount market is large and lucrative. You're not going to get all of these people to sell all their stuff and jump mirrorless. Many will die holding on to their DLSRs. Nikon is smart to continue to serve this market because there is yet a lot of money in this market (millions of people) and let this money go to the used camera market as people will just buy from KEH until they die. Nikon certainly can use the cash. People live in the moment with what they have, not in the far future. Just like the malls, a complete change to mirrorless is 20+ years away. The younger generation will make it happen over time, not overnight. As far as comments that Nikon can't afford the research, as long as they are cash flowing (different from the bottom line) banks will be fine with providing working capital lines and term loans for capital expenses, plus they can turn to the capital markets. How you noticed that their stock prices have increased 59% during 2020? $6.10 on 1/4/20 and $9.70 on 5/14/21. Google it. Finally, all this talk about market share. Volkswagen has the largest market share of automobiles. GM used to be number one. Now GM is number 7. Think GM is going away or failing anytime soon?
Add to D780's advantages: - using native F-mount lenses without an adapter; - optical viewfinder which many people prefer; (this may not be an advantage but just preference) - bigger body; (again - preference)
@lightningassault Bro you don't know jack about the difference between the 780 and z6. Reasons not to buy the z6 1 weak image stabilization in video 2 weak battery 3 no 3d tracking something to mention in the video 4 Xqd cards are to expansive 5 only card 1 slot
Depends a lot on which camera you use them on. As a portrait shooter who is typically at wider apertures those D lenses don't hold up sharpness wise or color fringing wise... especially on higher res bodies like the D850. The D lenses look okay until you try some of the better lenses on the market. This holds true with both the 1.8 and 1.4 50mm lenses, both the 1.8 and 1.4 85mm lenses, the 80-200 f/2.8 ("2-touch"), and the 17-35 f/2.8... and I'm sure many more but I only speak of lenses that I have extensively used myself.
@@JeremySmithPhotography With very great respect to you, I think there is more to an image than sharpness. In terms of contrast, rendering and character, the D lenses have their own place in the Nikon lens line up and just because there are sharper lenses being released in more recent years, doesn't mean the older D (or AI-S) lenses are inferior. I have owner both the newer G and older D/AI-S lenses and I have some images produced on the older lenses that you could never make on the newer G lenses. Alot of people love the Sigma Art range, but for me, they're just too damn sharp and they weren't to my tastes, so I actually sold my 35mm Art last year. Each to his own, I'm just saying I don't think sharpness doesn't always equal better.
Half my lenses will not work. That makes the eye focusing worthless! 12 frames a second who cares, spray and pray numbers BS. Ok maybe needed for that absolute one in a million shot otherwise marketing crap. The sound thing is nothing. Concerts and auto races it is irrelevant and even to most wildlife and landscape photographers they could care less. Street Photography??? Maybe useful in a church at a wedding but 90% of the world photographers are not wedding photographers. White balance thru the EVF. Who cares? Every DSLR I own works fine. IBIS may be good for longer lenses but really no need. Learn to hold a camera. The advantage might be at extreme slower speeds. Still no big deal. The lag and quality on many mirrorless EVF's suck. And they are electronic prone to failure. If you are clueless about exposure then maybe some of the EVF info may be good. Otherwise most of it is a gadget.
Problem is I don't want the expense of buying all new lens and my clients don't care whether I shoot on a mirrorless with quiet lens, and I don't do videography. Still don't like EVF, had one. The focus on the d780 is amazingly fast. Your v8 example is a good one. Two card slots are a necessity. Also, with trade in and rebate paid $1,450. To replace all my existing lens that take excellent pictures I would need to spend around $15k. Yes I could get the FTZ, but mirrorless is only really complete with Z mount lens. For photos, the old lens work well. Tired and come and gone doesn't make the photos look any less good as prints, not zoomed in pixel peeping. I use my 50mm D often and most importantly, I have a 105mm D2 DC lens. To move to the 105 1.4 is costly when my D2 lens is exceptionally good. I can't imaginge how much the Z version will cost when it's made. You've got to show me more than "get on the band wagon", "it's the future". I shoot today and prove to me that my wedding clients will ask me if I have a mirrorless based on photos that they have examined giving them a passion for mirrorless. In short, for my uses, it is way more cost effective to buy the d780 than the z6. I know Z lens are the cat's meow, but will a z6 photo in print look different from a high quality F mount to the client, even if I can see some difference. As far as video, if I ever decide to do video, I may buy a camera that is totally dedicated to video (who am I kidding, I'm never going to do video, I just don't like video). Most of your review seem to focus on the video aspects of going mirrorless.
Oh thank you !!! Most clients don't even care what you're shooting with as long as they look good , facts!
I feel the same as you my friend. I have a lot of full frame Nikon glass, to go mirrorless would be very costly and I’d lose my buttox in selling all my current glass to start over with s Mount glass. If I dump my d750 it’ll be for a d780.
@@kennypringle4580 with the ftz adapter you can use your glass on the z
@@richards3656 yes, but I don’t like adapters. I’m selling my d780 to stay with my d500’s using both DX and FX quality glass.
@@richards3656 you can't get AF with anything older than AF-S... no AF with D lenses. The OP has DC lenses as well. Focus motors fail all the time.
Those old AF lenses ARE a big problem, because they are AWESOME, but, they won't autofocus on the Z bodies. You showed us how that 50mm focuses in D780 live view, which was always Nikon's weak side. That would never stop many of us to still use them with the optical view finder. Those older lenses are THAT good.
Z Mount will never see the 28mm f2.8 AI-S replaced. Not gonna happen in that form factor (tiny) and price (about $200-$300) not to mention IQ.
My thoughts.
The Z6 is a great camera and I love mine. But the D780 does have a few advantages like you mentioned
The dual card slots.
Access to more native lenses (not needing an adapter) and being able to AF older screw drive lenses
No viewfinder lag with shooting because it’s optical which is one of my issues with the Z6 when shooting weddings
The D780 has a much longer battery life
Oh and the D780 will most likely perform better with AF especially in low light as DSLR is still the king in acquiring AF in low light situations.
These aren’t things to be taken lightly for professional work. But with all that being said. I love my Z6 and have no plans on going back to DSLR. And yes you do have a mirrorless agenda.
Great job.
Photo-Me-Ike i hate that I am even saying this it af-s is good in low light. If feel like I should be shooting nothing but af-c in mirrorless. Damn you Sony.
I was looking to upgrade from my aging D7100. I wasn’t impressed with the D500 or D750. I have too many F mount lens to drop them for a mirrorless. When the D780 showed up, I knew this was the upgrade I was looking for. I’m satisfied with my new purchase.
You aren't impressed by the d500?!?
Wissell, not the least bit. I rented one and it wasn’t for me. I kept my D7100 and waited for something more substantial. The D780 fit the bill and was so glad I didn’t make the mistake of getting the D500 or D750. Very happy with my choice and totally impressed with the D780.
@@Macjohn1419 what didn't you like about it?
Wissell, I rented the D500 and took RAW photos along with my D7100 and compared them side by side and didn’t see much of a difference in ISO performance and the D500 had a lower resolution of the same subject. The mechanics of the the D500 were superb, but in the end the visual image wasn’t to my liking. The D750 had superb imaging, but didn’t care for the mechanics. The D780 has both and an awesome LiveView capability similar to the mirrorless cameras. Hence, patience is a virtue and I am quite satisfied with my purchase. Hope that clarifies my decision.
@@Macjohn1419 yup thanks! I guess everyone likes what they like
Just downloaded iso comparison Z6 raw files. Omg that Z6 handles high iso incredibly well. There is virtually no color shift. Zoomed in at 100% the noise looks very similar at 51,200 compared to 1,600 on my Fuji xt2. And that has very good noise performance for an apsc camera. Beside that the Fuji detail goes to mush and the Z6 holds detail very well. Impressive.
Hi Jeremy. Great review. I have been studying both of these two cameras and comparing them to the D750 that I currently own. Regarding the image quality, I have noticed one difference. In raw files from D780 and Z6, of short exposure images that have bright areas and very dark shadows, when I increase the shadows over a certain point, I start seeing red and green pixels in the dark areas, same red and green pixels you see when you do long exposure photography. Whereas in my D750, even the darkest blackest shadows, no matter how much I brighten them, I will never see such red and green pixels. Do you know why is this happening? Is it because the sensor of the Z6 is hotter because you use it all the time cause of EVF and live view? And what about the D780 that had the same sensor? Anyways, I have noticed it a lot from all the sample D780 and Z6 raw files I studied and I haven't seen anyone mentioning this. To me the shadows of my D750 are more beautiful that what I have seen from raw files from (especially) Z6.
Thanks for the video Jeremy. Pity about the D780 focus noise on video. I’ll be sticking with my D750 & D850 for the time being. Maybe I’ll look at 2nd gen Nikon mirrorless when released 👍🙏
I Just upgraded from my 750s to 780s. Seriously how much technology to you need? I have used my old glass on them and focusing is fine! the tracking on Live View is amazing!! you push on the eye and takes the picture EASY!!! Great! low light. I dont need IBIS because my lenses are VR!! and I dont use it for video anyways I have Sony A7III.
Lenses that have responded well are 35mm 1.4, 16-35 f4 VR, 24-70 2.8 G ED IF VR, 70-200 2.8 VRII. even the nifty fifty 50 1.8D.
Its enough for blogging or convenient video clips. I wouldn't use it for Video for weddings or big jobs. But its still amazing!
PLUS!! no dual card slot for Z! which is risky even if its an XQD. Better safe than sorry! batteries from 750 can also be used for 780!
Nice review. The biggest problem for most of us, is mirrorless lenses are so expensive. That makes it hard to switch systems.
Robb Breck the adapter works well till you switch fully.
I find the AF on the D780 to be basically a D850 with fewer AF points. For that, it's a winner to me. Add to that I already have a bunch of nice F-mount lenses. I didn't find the Z6 as responsive or snappy through the viewfinder, so I returned it.
true but the D780's live view is on steroids when compared to D850...
@@jakcist-cz Yep. It's the first Nikon DSLR with a reliable live view.
We shoot weddings every week on Nikon bodies and I just want to point out that the color profiles on the Z series is much different than that of the dslrs. Shooting both in raw the colors seem much better on the D750 & D780 than the z6, z6ii and z7. None the less pictures are great on both.
For years shooting weddings, HS reunions and fashion shows, I used a D3 backed up by a D700. The D3 was set to overflow onto the second CF card but it never did. The D700 had only one card slot but i never filled a card. So the single card on my Z7 or someone’s Z6 would probably make little difference unless maybe they are into using one slot for RAW and the other for JPG versions. Which I never had reason to.
A very precise review, Jeremy. I’m now subscribed.
Interesting... I've just switched back from a Z6 to a D780 - Battery life, not a problem, I have multiple batteries so just swap if needed, but I don't often shoot more than 300 frames in a day anyway... Card Slots... I will admit, I was bothered by the Z6 only having one slot, but I have been using the same XQD card that came with the camera for 2 years now and not a problem - For me, the deal breaking problem was keeping the damn sensor clean!!! There needs to be a method of protecting the sensor while changing lenses
3D tracking in the D780 is everything for the sports and wildlife shooter. More important than every advantage the mirroless system offers.
That's what I thought too initially but lets just say that lots of behind the scenes testing is currently underway. Another video is forthcoming, you may be surprised by what we have found. ;)
z6 does 3d tracking too. Could have been there but I noticed during version 3 firmware. hit the f1 or ok button and it triggered into 3d tracking. You still need to set up auto area and back button etc.. Guess the d780 has the same z6 milc af plus dslr.
Using MF lenses on the Z bodies is such a joy thanks to the focus peaking and magnification. On traditional DSLRs, nailing focus with today’s focusing screens is extremely painful.
Yes, you are right! That is an EVF advantage that I did not think to mention.
True, manual focus on DSLRs is a pain, especially for moving subjects. But you can get aids such as viewfinder magnifier and focusing screen designed specifically for manual focus lenses.
D Crowther there was only one good company making focusing screens (used it on my D 750) but it went bankrupt...
Liveview on the D780 has focus peaking that works identically to the Z6II and it is very good. I have both cameras and use them in photoshoots. I love what each brings to the table in a shoot. Identical sensors so the resulting IQ is the same. I can be a little more creative with the Z6II because of wysiwyg. I will keep both for their different advantages like using my DC 105mm.
@@nathanielcashjr.732 Nope. To have focus peaking on a D780 you have to use the rear screen and hold the camera like a smartphone in Live View... not very comfortable if you ask me. Ex owner of a D750 here, quite familiar with its weight and size when attached to a lens.
I’ve been running a D7200 and D500 with a couple of Sigma lenses and a Tamron and I’m upgrading this year. I’ve held off because I didn’t want to invest all F Mount series, and I would go full in on mirrorless except the single memory card is a deal breaker - only because I shoot sports and corporate events mainly and I can’t risk a potential failure as I don’t get to reshoot. If I was in the studio all the time I’d go balls deep straight away.
I’m hoping that they release the rumoured Z8 and Z70 (D500 mirrorless equivalent) with dual slots, well at least one of them this year and I’ll be all the way in for sure with the z lenses.
the last time I had a card issues was the d7000 writing to both sdcard. But I knew something was wrong, it was freezing. I chuck tha cheap sd card it it fixed the issues. Only corrupt sdcard was back in 2000 when I place it in some old computer that just chew it up. I been using my d750 dual slot as overflow.
One of the most important things of a camera for me is the battery life and the D780 has a battery life of 2300 shots while the Z6 a battery life of 300 shots. That's just an insane diffirence.
frederikvr_ I get around 2k shots out of my Z6 on one battery. 300 is not even close to correct.
Great video, nicely produced, good content.
My D750 got smashed to bits a few months ago and I had the choice of going to the Z6, D780, or another D750. I went for the D780 because I wanted to be able to continue to focus my D lenses, and also because I don't like using EVF for my manual lenses. Yes, the focus peaking and viewfinder zoom on the Z6 would be nice, but I actually don't like the "what you see is what you get" aspect of the mirrorless. I actually like having a light meter and adjusting my exposure based off that, by seeing through the lens. It just feels like you're more in the moment, and can feel and anticipate what is going to happen and what the end image will feel like. Furthermore, I really like my existing lens collection and don't think they can be replaced by anything in the Z line up at this time or in the near future (and when more interesting lenses do appear, I very much doubt they will be within a comfortable price range). So even with my G lenses, I'd have to use the funky FTZ adapter and then, what is the point of having the smaller form factor when you have to work off balance with the extra bulk sticking off the front of the camera. I don't think I will ever part with my Nikkor 35mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 DC - they're just too good with the AF capability, for what I like to do in my photography. Using them with a DSLR is a joy I cannot see being emulated with the Z system (yet).
That said, if and when they release an adapter that will allow a light metering with manual lenses and the ability to autofocus my D lenses, plus the battery life will be comparable with DSLRs, then I might make the switch. But until then, I'll stick with the DSLR range. The D780 is a really nice camera by the way. I guess the Z6 has the same sensor, but the high ISO is INSANE. I can go to ISO 12800 and make beautiful images with virtually no noise. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the only fault with the D780 (and it's a big one) is that there is no battery grip of any sort to mention and as the D780 doesn't have any base contacts, one is unlikely to appear any time soon, let alone the prospect of seamless vertical controls. When I saw that, I couldn't believe it and will never understand why Nikon decided to gimp the camera in this area.
Other than that, and speaking personally, the D780 is a far superior camera than the D750, and I am very happy to continue to use it for many years more. Dedicated Nikon users live in interesting times and I very much look forward to seeing what Nikon produces, both in terms of their future lenses and cameras.
Thanks for the feedback, you bring up some interesting points. It's worth mentioning that you can disable the WYSIWYG aspect of a mirrorless camera and use the meter just like with any other camera. 😉
good points, being a D750 owner I would likely also go down the D780 route. battery life for ages, good hybrid system, FX lenses without adapter, why not enjoy DSLR for some years? (And I have a mirrorless Fuji X system)
For people focus on still photography, a D750/D780 with "retired" AF-D lenses will be adequate for most occasion, the bottleneck is not with camera anymore. The new hybrid shooter starting off their journey, there is little reason to choose Z over A7 III.... PS, A lot of 60 year old lenses still have their charm for photography, please age doesn't make them obsolete. Otherwise the best is to just get an iphone 12 pro and forget camera at all. They are the newest and the future... Thanks for sharing the opinion. It is fun to watch.
Great review! just a few points to mention: To eliminate the noise from FX lenses, just use an external target mic that is raised above the camera. Of course for hobby consumers, they might not want to use one. An advantage of the D780 is for capturing fast action sports and birding with the phase detect of photo still mode is faster and more accurate than z6. This mode gets the AF upgrade of the D5 according to Nikon site. D780 is for people and pros who like OVFs, have a lot of FX lenses, need the speed of AF for fast action sports, birding. D780 has electronic VR stabilization for video which from recording from a stationery postion this works well zooming and panning, while if walking with camera the Z6 5 axis stabilization is much superior for run and gun video, however some pros use stabilizing rigs with D780.
Weight wise on body the z6 with FTZ is 800grams vs. D780 body with battery and card is 840grams, while z6 with no adapter is 664grams. Z lens don't have VR stabilization so they are lighter than FX lenses with VR. I would say for most consumers and hobbyists, semi-pros and pros embracing full electronic mirrorless z6 and z6ii is the way to go. For pros who prefer using DSLRs with the benefit of a z6 sensor live-view video mode, perhaps the D780 makes sense.
For me, the 50mm 1.8 S and 14-30mm f/4 S were what convinced me to get the Z6. Amazing glass.
I agree, they are both excellent. I need to spend a bit more time with the 50mm S, perhaps a review is in order. 😉
how does that specific glass convince you? im upgrading from my first DSLR a 5100. iv just broke my sigma 17-50 f2.8 so im limited to only a 70-300 fx as my only good lens)other than the kit 18-55mm) so its pretty much a brand new set up ill have, I love airshows and landscape so i feel like id need both a wide-angle may be the 24-70 or a prime and the ftz for my 70 300 but i want to get the sigma 150-600 so all of that adds up. if i cand o that without the ftz I feel id win. I'm at a total loss for the comparison really, as both the 780 and the z6ii ticks my boxes other than the cost of those new lenses.
Prefer the D780, mainly for the OVF. Can't stand the lag on the EVF, and the waviness of the image when fast panning. Also prefer a larger size body, the Z6 body too small for larger hands.
Right
One thing you missed was Nikon d780's autofocus with its OVF is much much much quicker than any Z bodies. I am not sure if the new Z9's auto focus speed is faster than my D5, D4s or D780. I use my Nikon DSLRs for fast action photography. For anything else, I use my Leica SL, Leica M240, or Sony A7 III or Olympus EM5 Mark III so I like mirrorless cameras as well. However, not the Nikon Z6. With my Nikon gear, I would am very happy with my set of F mount lenses. I like the output but more importantly my clients like the output.
thanks for this video... i will upgrade to d780 because i love dslr build quality the weather sealing , 2 memory cards , the more sense of use F mount natively and lenses availability Z mount very poor at the moment and over priced and the size of dslr i want to grab real camera
"shackled" is not a word I would use in connection to a back catalogue of excellent nikon lenses for a fraction of the cost of these plastic computers with built in motors. I couldn't care less about motor noise either. Let the vloggers worry about motor noise.
Your voice is like butter to my ears
Umm your using an old D lens of course it’s gonna be noisy but the glass is superior to zs they actually use less glass and more plastic with the new ones I’m good with F mount for the win
I've been shooting commercially with two 750's for 5 years and I've swapped one for a Z6 and I think for me it's about thinking ahead. Mirrorless is the future and not only that, the Z has 5 axis image stability not to mention being better value for money.
I Will eventually go mirrorless in a few years but really can't justify wiping all my F mount lenses for a Z mount equivalent, will probably havecto settle with an FTZ adapter. Right now I shoot with a D750 and D610....I'm eyeing a D780 or a D850 as the sbsolute LAST DSLR that I'll ever own.
Well, they are the last DSLR in town ;)
You did not track subjects, you were thinking of video with the vintage lens. Clearly if one is going to shut video the Z6 is better. If someone buys the D780 be assured that it won't be to shoot video only or mostly for that matter. Firmware 3.0 could render the D780 useless, but if it fails once we start seeing actual results (it sticks the box like crazy, but I have not seen the actual pictures) then the D780 will be a better photo tool.
Thanks for the focus noise check. First time I have seen this...its an important factor to consider. I'm now leaning towards a Z.
woowwww ... what a sound you have ... awesome ... woowww
Watching the videos of the Z6 when it first came out reviewers commented how in low light the photo autofocus was slow and hunted. Has this been improved in the firmwares or is it still behind in this regard. I kind of want the Z6 but not if it struggles trying to focus indoors or in less than ideal light conditions. Thanks
I still need to spend a bit more time with the camera on the newest firmware but lets just say I am glad I didn't jump to conclusions as much as some folks when the Z6 was first launched. 😉 Hooking up the Atomos Ninja V and doing an AF test with the Z6 sounds like it could make a good video.
No problem with the low light focus on my Z6II. Same speed as my D780. You have to learn how the focus works on the Z6II and know what setting to use given the circumstances.
Firmware 3.12 is brilliant. The camera is way ahead go my trusty D750
Interesting review but very unbalanced as it is too video centric. Unless you want video beyond anything basic you don't need mirrorless. DSLRs are for photographers and if you don't shoot video are the better option. Better handling, much longer battery life, better viewfinder, same image quality. I've shot both D780 and Z6II and the image quality is identical at low and high ISO, but the DSLR is a much better handling experience. There is such a thing as too small a camera. If I were to buy a new camera again now it would be a DSLR again as I'm only interested in photography. Take a walk round a major tourist city (when you can) and see how many people are using mirrorless (almost none) but Canon and Nikon DSLRs are everywhere.
Haha great video but no way I am trading 50/1.4D for the G variant of the lens. :-) It is my all time favourite lens and D780 only breathed new live into it. Modern Nikkors are great universal performers but they lack the character (imperfections which can be used creatively) of D lenses. Imho, you should ideally capture the sound externally in video and loud autofocus is not that big of an issue then.. but I am not saying that D780 is better than Z6 at all: it all comes down to personal preference and how much value you put to those little differences these cameras have :-))
You definitively shouldn't trade your 50 F/1.4D for the G... the 50mm F/1.8 S on the Z6 is what I was hinting at. 😉 I have owned all the Nikon 50mm 1.8 and 1.4 G/D lenses. Perhaps I need to round them all up and do a comparison with the new S...
DSLRs are just sexy, i find the weight, bulkiness and noise of using one to be a positive factor.
Also, if you pay $2000-5000 on a camera body, would you want it to be the size of a toy camera?
I understand where you are coming from, that's just like the I really love the sound of a V-8 engine compared to an electric car analogy. I haven't always been a big mirrorless supporter but the tech has simply evolved, I for one am glad it did. It's a shame I don't shoot many weddings these days (or maybe not really) because it's much easier with lighter cameras. The last two weddings I did I used the Sony A9 and it was nice not having pain from carrying my Nikon DSLR bricks around all day! I don't really care if someone perceives the camera I use as a "toy" or not as long as it's reliable and comfortable for me to use. My clients know that a child isn't at play when they see my images. 😉
for wedding photography i need fast and accurate autofocus and good dynamic range too.. which one you think would be good?z6 or d780 ?
Shooting weddings the ability to use eye AF with the screen or viewfinder is something I feel is a big asset on the Z6. You also don't have the narrow focus point spread of the D780 to contend with. The only thing that would push me to the D780 would be if I had a lot of older Nikon (non AF-S) lenses or if I really... really needed two cards slots. As far as dynamic range they are practically identical since they are essentially using the same image sensor.
D780 AF is far better than the Z6.
@@chloescanlon1107 really? on what situation?
Nice review Jeremy, i have D750 and i was thinking the same as you, Price wise and futureproof Mirrorless is go to option, thinking selling my F mount glass some of them :-(.
The d750 is really nice and the D780 looks like a nice upgrade but the Z6 is really amazing and now with v3.0 its really really really GREAT!!!
I use my f mount on the z6, adapter works well. I don't care if people say adopter aren't cool. It works and I don't lose money selling and rebuying. I only add to my lenses collections. Growing over 10.
@@xophaser how about the autofocus with the adapter,is it good?im a wedding photographer.
@@CJ-dk7hc I have the z6 since it released and the only z lens I have is the 24-70 f4 as a walkaround. I used the Nikkor 50mm f1.4, 85 f1.4, Tamron 70-200 f2.8, 35mm f1.4, 24-70 f2.8, 90 mm macro. Tokina 16-28 f2.8 and even my old have broken Sigma 85mm f1.4. I done skateboarding with the 70-200, seem to work well. My old screwdriver AF 80-400 didn't work for obvious reason as it was a screwdriver AF (D lenses). There are no real differences between f mount on DSLR or Z MILC. I read the report it might be a tad slower on some lenses, but I haven't noticed it. My d750 Af area is too small now so why I don't use it much. I do more off-center shots with a 90% AF coverage area for engagement. I am waiting on the Z lenses 50mm f1.2 or one of the telephoto lenses since my old 80-400 only works only on DSLR with a screwdriver AF.
12 frames/sec using the live view screen is not a plus for me.. it is virtually impossible to shoot moving wildlife in live view and who needs 12 FPS for landscape photography. I’ll stick with the D500
How can you say that the z6 is a better option. A camera that does not have a great selection of lenses available for people who are beginning in photography. The few lenses that exist are extremely expensive and there are no lenses of other manufacturers. The D780 has a large range of Lenses available from third parties companies. Plus is a F mount camera with a great video AF.
Long-term gain outweighs short term inconvenience IMHO. Also nearly all those lenses (even most 3rd parties) work perfectly with the Z6 + FTZ today... and a person would have the option of the Z lenses tomorrow. If it were 2004 right now we could choose to buy a brand new F6 or a D70... I wonder which of those choices turned out to be the better long-term option...🙃
@@JeremySmithPhotography The F6, as it can still be used today. No one is using a D70 currently.
Z for ZERO because that’s how many other camera systems Z mount lenses adapt to. If you have a collection of F glass it makes zero sense to switch to Z Mount particularly if you have AF-D classics that will never appear in Z mount like the 105/2 DC and 135/2 DC. The D780 is really two cameras in one. OVF and LiveView. Plus no ridiculously expensive cards to buy. Incidentally the 50/1.8D you were holding at the end has not and likely will never be beaten in Z mount for lower size and weight and bang for the buck.
I`ve got a nikon d780. I will not choose z6 because I can shoot arount 2700 frames without need to charge battery. The worst is the weight. Problably my second camera body will be fuji xt 30II or fuji xe 4 (weigth around 380 grams).
I need a second full frame body and very badly want to get a z6. I have a d850 and a d500 and there there are a few reasons why I’m hesitant to get it. 1) ergonomics. DSLRs are just made become an extension of the photographers hands. I can change almost all my setting with butting on my cameras without ever having to look at an LCD which “keeps my head in the game” and not looking at the camera screen. I have tried the Z6 and even with practice this may not be possible. 2) af-D lens autofocus. I use manual lenses all the time but my best is an af-d Nikki 105 f2 DC. I don’t need fast AF, but no AF for portraits is.l not acceptable. The 105 f1.4 is trash and I would never give up the F2 DC. 3) there is no reason to “upgrade” to new Z lenses. I have found that while these lenses are sharp sharp sharp, they have very little (if any) character to them. F mount lenses are not perfect, but that is what makes the images amazing. (This is for artistic type work like portraits, landscapes, weddings, beauty, macro, era only. I understand for realistic work like architecture, real estate, product photography, or reproduction). 4) no 2nd card slot... but you did mention that... if the 780 had IBIS and grip compatibility, I would bought it already... right now I’m torn...
Ed 100% agree , you wrote exactly what I want to saying
I don't have a problem with adjusting my Z6II without looking at the live view screen. You see the same thing in the EVF and it doesn't take too long to get muscle memory on the buttons. I have AIS lenses like the 105mm F2.5, 50mm F1.2, and the 50mm F1.4 that I love and they work very well on the Z6II, particularly because of focus peaking - and the in-body stabilization gives me much better results. I have a 35mm F2.0 that I love for its character. However, my 35MM F1.8 S lens has an amazing look beyond sharp, sharp, sharp in my opinion. Different from my 35MM F2.0, but just as pleasing for its own character. I'll also point out that I have a D750 and D780 that I will not trade. All three are great in their own way and I take the D780 (i.e. DC 105MM F2.0) and use it with the Z6II. My wife uses the D750 with me for weddings. The overall results are excellent.
Just out of interest? I know the Z6 and Z7 aren't Autofocus compatible with most of the earlier generation Tamron lenses (pre G2 series) and Tamron won't be offering firmware for these. Since the D780 has most of the workings from the Z6 does this issue still follow through to d780 in live view mode??
I have one tameron pre g1 and it works fine day 1. The g1 lenses (24-70 and 70-200) works fine too out of the box day 1. The g2 had issues and those were the one tamron fixed (my 35mm f1.8 prime). I have 2012 sigma and they work. no more issues with 3rd party lenses. Only lenses that don't work are the old af-d with the screwdriver body AF.
@@xophaser, thank you for your reply. That's good to know. I have both the 24-70 and 70-200 di vc usd models and first generation 15-30 f2.8. I found out they were not fully compatible with z6 and z7. Only offering manual AF and Tamron is not offering firmware update for first generation. It just seemed logical that the issue may be inherent in the d780 and future d880, since they use z6 and 7 sensor and circuitry. It might be more related to an issue with the FTZ adapter telemetry rather than cameras.
@@harvymckiernan93 take it to a camera store and try it out.
To your question on focusing the D780 in live view, I have the D780 in my hand with a DC105mm lens that uses a screw drive. In live view the focus is snappy. I have an earlier Tamron SP 17-50 lens F2.8 (crop sensor) that will focus with no problem on my D780 and my Z6II with the FTZ.
@@nathanielcashjr.732 Thank you. That's good to know for future references. I've since sold off all my Tamron native f mounts holy trinity in favour of the new Nikon s series holy trinity.
The D780 is, of course, for those who have a lot of F glass and will not be lured into, for years and all over again, spending thousands of dollars to invest in S glass when quality difference is zero.
Wait for the gen2 mirrorless.
The Z 6 has no built-in flash, very poor battery life, and only one memory card slot. Three major drawbacks for me, someone who doesn't want to carry an external flash and a few extra batteries all the time, and likes the built-in backup memory card. The D780 not withstanding regarding flash. I prefer the D750 to both, as I almost never shoot video.
Now do something about the dismal battery life of the Nikon Z series cameras, and give us a built-in flash, and dual card slots, and I'm there.
The Z 50 doesn't count in my book, regarding the built-in flash, as I don't want a DX cropped sensor camera.
Are you basing your conclusion on your own use or the CIPA numbers? A long explanation is needed but keep in mind that real-world battery life for a camera like the Z6 is very different than the CIPA numbers. Most users including me see 1,000+ shots on a charge from the Z6. This holds true with other FF mirroless cams too (A7III, EOS R, etc).
This is more like lens noise, not body noise. If so, you could put tamron lenses, or anything that is more silent for video
I am wandering, how useful is live view on the D780? I don't see myself holding a DSLR in front of me to benefit of the more focus points etc. I hardly shoot video
im thinking the same as i do a lot of airshows, you wotn eb able to see the screen when panning that quick in bright light.
@@phillcom3 If it helps you, I'm a very happy user of the Z6II now. It's a great camera for my usage
I have the D780 and Z6II. I use both in event photography. The live view is very useful. The live view on either camera allows me to get angles for compositions that I cannot get using the OVF or EVF. If I'm shooting the Blue Angels, I will use the OVF of the D780, but the Z6II EVF gives me the same results.
can you remake this bu t for the z6ii? as in most of the downfalls of the z6 seem to have been removed other than the increase in cost. i realy cant tell which i want other than the missing lense i want for airshows
Enjoyed your video but the 105mm DC AF-D and 180mm 2.8D are still gorgeous AF lenses that I want to use af for video. I have the 85mm 1.4G so I don't feel the need to get the 105mm 1.4G and there is no direct replacement for the 180 2.8 yet. I could get manual focus for the 180 and use the old 105 2.5 ai-s autofocus but this is an awkward transition time.
Main area for optical cg is battery life
Jeremy, you are awesome, and your videos Rock. However, I respectfully disagree with putting old lenses to rest. Please check Ken Rockwell video on the Z6 using old vintage lenses; he uses many other adaptors. His video was the selling point for me to buy a Z6II. Once again, truly enjoy your content just disagree with the lens advice
I'll check it out... perhaps this is something to go into detail about in a future video. 😉
D780 is a good camera but I will get the Z6 because of the spread of autofocusing points.
This spread makes it easier to use when doing weddings.
D780 still has the clustered autofocusing points from the D750.
APERTURE ADE that will mostly never change on a dslr without Evf.
If you're shooting the D780 in live view the spread of autofocusing points is the same as the Z6II, but not in the OVF. I have a Z6II and a D780 and in live view, I see no difference in the focusing performance at all.
Hi Jeremy ! Electric Cars will never replace Fuel burning Cars.
And mirrorless will always be a smaller and lighter system for amateurs, professional photographers will never want it... The horse and buggy will never be replaced by the automobile... And of course the president of IBM Thomas Watson was correct when he said that there was a world market for only 5 computers... Once tech allows for better energy density in batteries and better mass production EV's will be just as ubiquitous as all the other tech we enjoy today that seemed impossible not so long ago. 😉
Testing noise - was this a hi-fi test? Yeah, it was an annoying mirrorless push. My big hands definitely prefer DSLR rather than a wee camera. I can't afford to replace my quality
glass. Oh yeah, I don't do video.
I love Nikon but we have to be honest. The Z lenses have no design character whatsoever. They just look dull when comparing the look of the lens to the Gold labelled lenses of old. The box designs are also a downgrade in design compared to the Gold boxes of old. Some sneakers come in nicer designed boxes like Jordans 😅
I agree, even the fact that the current primes are F/1.8 is a bit of a marketing fail IMHO. The lenses perform excellently and are well made but it's hard to sell them as high-end when they are so bland and when we have been conditioned to see F/1.8 lenses as a "bargain" option. With that being said try them if you haven't had the opportunity, marketing and design missteps aside they really are impressive lenses.
Small number of people use and will use mirrorless within next 4-5 years. Too much f mount lenses out there.
No dual card slots a deal breaker
Also if you don’t use video there is some of the advantage of z 6 gone
I like eve though anyway
you can have both cameras aswell
Yes, certainly! I have taken this approach with many camera... probably too many. 😅
nice review! Im thinking to upgrade to Full Frame now i have a D5300 and D7200, i was between D750 and Z6, the problem that i have that here in Argentina the camera cost 3 times more than USA :(.
Sorry About my bad english, i speak spanish.
Given the massive cost difference the D750 + a good lens is probably your best bet. The D750 is still an incredible camera, especially for the cost!
@@darekm6859 Thank you! For sure ill get a Nikon D750 or if i can a Z6 cause i need 4k video recording for my work
PS: Sorry About my bad english i speak spanish.
missing point: battery life. otherwise: yes!
So Jeremy, are you back?????? #Nikon
I may be a Sony user and this video may have been filmed with a Sony but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching Nikon's progress in mirrorless. 😉
DSLRs are phasing out technology. You can certainly keep shooting with them, just like you can continue shooting film.
I agree and you could also continue to ride a horse instead of driving an automobile.. but of course this isn't the best thing for the majority of folks. DSLR use will soon join horsemanship and film photography in becoming a small niche. No camera company is actively developing new film bodies, soon that will be the case for DSLRs.
@@JeremySmithPhotography I'm shocked that I'm not in an argument. 😂 👍
@@JeremySmithPhotography I agree that eventually, mirrorless will be the main cameras used by professionals very soon and much slower for enthusiasts. Here an analogy, internet shopping was going to completely take over brick and mortar malls 20+ years ago. Malls are closing left and right, but 20 years later you still have a few. The change came when a generation that was school-age grew up with a different learned mindset. The change happened slowly. The malls didn't immediately close at the start of the internet shopping (i.e. Amazon). The F-mount market is large and lucrative. You're not going to get all of these people to sell all their stuff and jump mirrorless. Many will die holding on to their DLSRs. Nikon is smart to continue to serve this market because there is yet a lot of money in this market (millions of people) and let this money go to the used camera market as people will just buy from KEH until they die. Nikon certainly can use the cash. People live in the moment with what they have, not in the far future. Just like the malls, a complete change to mirrorless is 20+ years away. The younger generation will make it happen over time, not overnight. As far as comments that Nikon can't afford the research, as long as they are cash flowing (different from the bottom line) banks will be fine with providing working capital lines and term loans for capital expenses, plus they can turn to the capital markets. How you noticed that their stock prices have increased 59% during 2020? $6.10 on 1/4/20 and $9.70 on 5/14/21. Google it. Finally, all this talk about market share. Volkswagen has the largest market share of automobiles. GM used to be number one. Now GM is number 7. Think GM is going away or failing anytime soon?
Hi jeremy! Nice review man!
z6 Good ;))))
Nice review.
Animal eye detection so what!!! This is getting nuts...
Besides the stupid Nikon fangirls we all know that the Z6 is better camera than D780...period.
theyre both Nikons you moron.
Maybe the number of shots per battery charge? 🤣
Advantages Z6:
- sharper Z lenses
- lighter body
- IBIS
- EVF
Advantages of D780:
- battery life.
The end.
Add to D780's advantages:
- using native F-mount lenses without an adapter;
- optical viewfinder which many people prefer; (this may not be an advantage but just preference)
- bigger body; (again - preference)
@lightningassault Bro you don't know jack about the difference between the 780 and z6.
Reasons not to buy the z6
1 weak image stabilization in video
2 weak battery
3 no 3d tracking something to mention in the video
4 Xqd cards are to expansive
5 only card 1 slot
Addition
- 2 card slot
Had me until you said to put the D lenses to bed.
Depends a lot on which camera you use them on. As a portrait shooter who is typically at wider apertures those D lenses don't hold up sharpness wise or color fringing wise... especially on higher res bodies like the D850. The D lenses look okay until you try some of the better lenses on the market. This holds true with both the 1.8 and 1.4 50mm lenses, both the 1.8 and 1.4 85mm lenses, the 80-200 f/2.8 ("2-touch"), and the 17-35 f/2.8... and I'm sure many more but I only speak of lenses that I have extensively used myself.
@@JeremySmithPhotography With very great respect to you, I think there is more to an image than sharpness. In terms of contrast, rendering and character, the D lenses have their own place in the Nikon lens line up and just because there are sharper lenses being released in more recent years, doesn't mean the older D (or AI-S) lenses are inferior. I have owner both the newer G and older D/AI-S lenses and I have some images produced on the older lenses that you could never make on the newer G lenses. Alot of people love the Sigma Art range, but for me, they're just too damn sharp and they weren't to my tastes, so I actually sold my 35mm Art last year. Each to his own, I'm just saying I don't think sharpness doesn't always equal better.
simply said : if you use live-view you have a Z30 , using the view-finder you have a D750 ( 750+30=780 ) 🤣
I see what you did there. 😂
@@JeremySmithPhotography I'm waiting for a " Z s " like the Nikon S3 , S4 , SP, .... that would be a logical increase of the retro-style ! 😎
Half my lenses will not work. That makes the eye focusing worthless! 12 frames a second who cares, spray and pray numbers BS. Ok maybe needed for that absolute one in a million shot otherwise marketing crap. The sound thing is nothing. Concerts and auto races it is irrelevant and even to most wildlife and landscape photographers they could care less. Street Photography??? Maybe useful in a church at a wedding but 90% of the world photographers are not wedding photographers. White balance thru the EVF. Who cares? Every DSLR I own works fine. IBIS may be good for longer lenses but really no need. Learn to hold a camera. The advantage might be at extreme slower speeds. Still no big deal. The lag and quality on many mirrorless EVF's suck. And they are electronic prone to failure. If you are clueless about exposure then maybe some of the EVF info may be good. Otherwise most of it is a gadget.