@@Tuskin38 OK well let’s just last year it came out the same day as number two so maybe it might come out the same day as number one and then will get our dragon short on Christmas Day
Scott, not sure if you knew. But in the printed manga, there’s a scene where it shows how cranberry survived. He’s the guy Zarbon kicked into the lake when the Namekian warriors show up in the original Dragon ball manga. Because Zarbon killed him, the earth dragon ball wish to bring everyone back killed by Freeza and his men brought Cranberry back. Who then deserted and escaped using the ship Vegeta arrived in.
@@KaiserNeko Hello Kaiser I have a quick question for you what are your thoughts in predictions on the new Dragon Ball Super movie announcement that stated to be released in 2022
It was already established SSJ4 returns someone to their prime, it doesn’t “age you up”. That’s why when Goku transformed he returned to his fighting prime as an adult and when Vegeta transformed, Bulma remarked he looked younger (and this is emphasized by his hairstyle resembling his look in Z). I also know the pants don’t make much sense but it’s better than them going naked
Really? In the dub, Goku's aging up was attributed to the form being more powerful than the wish that made him a kid, returning him to his proper age. It would make a kind of sense though for SS4 to put you at your prime. Very interesting. As for pants or no, that depends entirely on who you ask.
Its weird to say it returns them to their prime cause even the end of z establishes that goku and vegeta have no problem fighting at all. Theres nothing to imply that they aren't still as strong or even stronger than they were during the buu saga
@@DiZtheJedi iirc that wasn't directly said in the dub, it was some magazine or smth. The wish thing could be part of it, though; in the transformation scene when it shows all those naked Kid and Adult Gokus, then finally zooms in on the eye of Adult Goku I thought that was supposed to show the form enabling him to return to his adult body since that was his prime/"true self". But ig that's just me reading into visuals lol
@@jensennguyen02 well yeah ig it's just part of the aesthetic; like vegeta hadn't aged much physically bc saiyans, but his fighting days were mostly behind him so he resembled his old self more. even his gloves grew fingers lol
Actually fun fact about fandubs on Yo Son Goku and Episode of Bardock. In Latin America, which treats fandubs with a lot more respect than the english speaking industry, there is a fandub of Episode of Bardock, that not only got some official members of the cast to do their roles, it managed to get noticed by the media to the point of being broadcasted on Cartoon Network as a Special episode of Kai. When it comes to the fandub of Son Goku, the guy that played Goku for that fandub was recognized enough that he managed to officially do it for DBS: Broly in Argentina. He's obviously more than just a fandubber, but it's still something they took notice when checking on his performance.
That is so awesome to hear. I wish english studios cared less about their copyright like that and were more relaxed. I mean there has been fan voice actors getting hired to play official roles--like the guy who voices Joker in the Batman Telltale games!--but it's just that, well, we've seen how Toei has treated TFS for a fan parody lol...
@@ObligedUniform Does he not like the tracks themselves out how they’re used within DBZ? I thought the most common complaints were just that it didn’t fit the original tone of the show.
Was that in the manga? If you make it 7% then the following arcs make a lot more sense. In the manga I know Gowasu was reluctant to say Vegetto surpassed even Beerus, but Vegetto is way stronger in the manga than anime. He practically curbstomps Fused Zamasu before his time runs out unexpectedly
Also let's not forget that even if we pretended as if Beerus was using 70%, that doesn't mean Goku was anywhere near 70% of Beerus's strength. Beerus was still fooling around, fighting lazily, didn't get a single scratch on him, and only pretended to be tired out at the end.
Very interesting choice, but also probably the least connected to the rest of the series so I can see it being alright to read first, though I Stan reading part 6 first just cause
In fairness, just about anything in the manga that isn't in the anime isn't Toriyama's draft, it's stuff Toyotaro came up with--Toriyama's drafts are basically just the stuff the two versions have in common.
I would like to get an episode with breakdown of the Moro arc, high and low points, without fear of spoilers. There are some amazing highlights of the arc that it could be fun to hear you guys geek out about. The fun background details of the galactic prisoners, the fact that the Z B-Team gets some minor highlights, ect.
Honestly I'd love to see another episode like this one where Kaiser takes a deep dive into a different part of Dragon Ball. Maybe Buu saga or og Dragon Ball. It's super interesting to listen to you guys talk about this thing that you're so passionate and knowledgeable about in a candid even handed way.
'Vegita would never underestimates someone' -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Goku -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Zarbon -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Recoome -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Frieza -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Metal Cooler -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Android 13 (not sure on the chronology) -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Brolly (not sure on the chronology) -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Android 18 -Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Perfect Cell Only saw the Buu saga once like...10-15 years ago. But I'll hazard he shit talks someone he shouldn't have.
During his first visit to Earth, it's ultimately Gohan, Krillin, and Goku as team that beat Vegeta. Even then: Goku is battered and broken, Gohan is knocked out, and Krillin can barely stand. Vegeta was defeated and put in his place when he underestimated Earth, but it was by no means as one sided as you make it seem
A state of being is probably what you're looking for trying to explain Ultra Instinct. The Kaioken is just an Aura change and blatant technique boosting speed, strength etc. Though the muscles do swell a bit but there's no actual physical transformation unlike Ultra Instinct with distinct and clear physical and mental changes.
I like the manga version of UI, with Master Roshi able to dodge Jiren it makes it more of a state that any character can learn rather than just a saiyan or god thing.
@@brettz5288 it happened during kind of a pep talk and Roshi, seemed to go into an imperfect UI, which I think could be indicative of maybe the human cast getting some love and being able to at least have some access to UI to make them relevant again.
I love it when you guys actually talk about Dragon Ball like you do for DB Cember If you wanted to review Dragon Ball from beginning to end, arc by arc every couple of months I’d definitely watch it.
Dude you guys have, in the first 10 minutes, hit SO MANY OF MY CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES. "Oh Goku's early years! Cool prequel!" "Hey this is the same guy showing up as every other minor character in Yu Yu Hakusho.....das weird"
The potential Tuffle could still be a part of the lore. The broly movie doesn’t say King Cold gave the Saiyans space travel Bardock says that they made their fortunes conquering planets AND THEN Cold took over. They could still have dominated the Tuffles to get off their planet in the first place
Top 12 mentors, mentors for any character, this is just my rating so you can use your own: their affect on the story, their affect on the character that is their student, how long they were the characters mentor, how much work you think they put in the mentor ( how good you think they look, how good you think their techniques, if they had any techniques, are), how many times does this mentor show up in the series and how many times does this mentor meet one of his students again, how good were this mentor's teaching methods, and how well did the series display the teachings of this mentor.
I want to see the Online timeline happen: Goku knows he's not long for the world and decides to have one last fight with Vegeta with Supernovas being seen years later as a result of this fight. But the one thing I would Change/Add is that, after that fight, Vegeta takes over as God of Destruction and honestly I see Goku taking over for King Kai; basically making him this legendary martial arts instructor in the afterlife that trains people who truly need it like him before Vegeta and Nappa.
@@TheAzulmagia yes that was implied, I just kinda like the idea of Vegeta going on to do bigger things. The Goku/King Kai thing literally came to me during my lunch break earlier today and I just really like it, it takes the Uub ending of Z to the Logical Extreme.
@@JustSomeMexicanwithaMustache thats just how I picture Vegeta's retirement because, unless they use the Super Dragon Balls to bring back Planet Vegeta and the Saiyans, he's basically just Bulma's Trophy Husband.
What I never understood about that is how much sense it didn't make, by the end of Z Vegeta was more caring for his wife and family over fighting, yet with online he just up and leaves, along with Goku (which also doesn't make too much sense) and fights til he hits his 80s, then dies I also don't see them fighting to the death, neither could possibly bring themselves to kill the other, Goku is Goku, and Vegeta has a necessary dependence on Goku's existence, without Goku, Veget would have no more reason to live, besides his wife and kids, but he's millions of light-years away from them, and he has no access to instant Transmission, plus telling Chi-Chi, "Sorry kinda killed your husband" and vise versa, and Goku, without Vegeta, has no more reason to get stronger, Goku's drive is to stay ahead of Vegeta, the same way that Vegeta's drive is to catch up with Goku, however I see it being more devastating for Vegeta, because of Vegeta's pride, if Goku dies, he's finally won, now what? He loses everything he's worked so hard to surpass, now he's gone, there's nothing left
While Xenoverse, and I guess Heroes, are doing okay with Online's material, another sequel series would be cool. If only because the previously mentioned Xenoverse and Heroes seem to focus more on the time travel plotline than exploring a post Goku world. Also, while I prefer Goku and Vegeta both going out with a bang, literally thanks to the supernova, the idea of the former becoming an honorary Kai and the latter taking Beerus' job, possibly by beating him, does sound cool.
I enjoy things like around 17:00 that give you an idea of the difficulty people have to deal with behind the scenes. Complainers don't usually understand that the companies or governments they take to task are usually actually a bunch of different bodies with competing goals and needs.
This is sort of tangential, but I find it funny/wierd how you guys put Janemaba almost in every DBecember list, from Villains to Fights to Transformations, mostly on the basis of how creative his moveset was, but then not only did none of his techniques make it into the top 12 Techniques list, he didn't even get mentioned in the honorable mentions for them!
@@mushroomkaat2667 Yeah, and I think Janemba is better than the sum of his parts. Perhaps no one technique truly stands out but as a collective moveset, it exudes creativity.
I think it's because Janemba's moves are natural abilities. The portals and stretching and reality manipulation are just inherent abilities that I don't think others could learn.
I think Geekdom summarizes the Ultra Instinct stuff way better than I ever could, but Ultra Instinct always seemed like a technique that becomes a transformation once you master it. Because when you're fully in it, it's like a different state, a higher state of mind
Always a treat hearing your thoughts on Dragon Ball. I personally ended up wanting to hear more about your thoughts on Moro because you really end up comparing him to other villains of the saga and left it at that. While yes, he's not the most unique in terms of WHAT he does, the WAY he does things ended up entertaining imo (the first encounter with the heroes was amazing). Maybe do consider making a spoiler version of this podcast, I would love to hear it.
I loved the Moro arc. I think he was a good combination of Cell and Buu. I know a lot of people are annoyed by another absorb villain, but in a series that is all about transformation and different forms, I'm ok with the villains being similar. it also helps to think how he is the first on of Super. Favorite cookie is Chocolate Chip but have been really enjoying no bake oatmeal cookies.
@@itsknighttime9572 .... 2013 is when they were making good shit ? Anyway I can understand being disappointed with a creator you used to like. I had a very similar experience with mat pat , game grumps and I few others. But you shouldn't tell others their bad for still liking this stuff ( unless it was a joke in which case ignore me )
Moro was so interesting until he became Cell... Merus was the best part though! When he showed up I was mad af that he was able to keep up with Goku and make Vegeta look dumb lol but the payoff was great.
I used to really like oatmeal raisin cookies when I was a kid but as I got older I REALLY love white chocolate and macadamia nut cookies. Omg, when fresh out of the oven, it melts in your mouth 😛😋
My favorite cookies will always be double chocolate. I'll be honest, I was mostly a fan of dragonball because of my experience with the games until this channel and have now watched/read the whole thing, including GT, and rekindled my love for anime as a whole because of this channel. I can't see how anyone could possibly feel that you guys aren't fans.
Man, Tire- I mean Moro was a very strange villain. I totally agree with him being a "greatest hits" kind of threat. Also Goku fucking it up; a la Cell Games, was a real odd throwback.
You guys made my day first with no. 2 on the transformations list and now the retrospective. It makes me wonder though will they ever give vegeta an arc all his own?
Lol, you guys are just awesome! Also, Chocolate chip are the bomb! Snickernoodles too when made right. The ones at my community college were AMAZING! And my cousin's holly cookies. My 12 year old niece is supposed to be trying to make them for the first time on her own this year since my cousin has been laid up from kidney transplant surgery. Aunt Kara's got her fingers crossed!
Funimation: "IT'S NOT FAIR USE! IT'S STEALING!!" Also Funimation: "Yeah, Of course Marting is an official Freeza." Absolutely amazing for Martin! Being recognized as an Official Character-representative because of a parody series is amazing and goes to show what an outstanding job he did. But Funimation's gonna give me Whiplash at some point.
I remember that era where the same guys/gals would pop up everywhere in dubs. The best was Schemmel showing up every few episodes of pokemon as a slight variant of King Kai. Hey look, it's King Kai the scientist! Now its King Kai the struggling pokemon trainer Wait, when did King Kai join team rocket?
something i love about the freeza hell scene in the English dub is that the... girlfriend?.. partner? for freeza's VA plays some of the bears tormenting freeza
My issue with Ultra Instict being called a transformation is that everyone we've seen use it apart from Goku himself doesn't change visually, Beerus stays the same, Whis is always using it pretty much so I dont know if that counts but still its only really a "transformation" for the monkey man himself
Every other individual that can reach UI isn't mortal. As far as I know, there's no canon precedence for a mortal achieving the godly state of UI, rather than just the regular martial arts concept of Mushin
@@bananagamr8180 Apparently Roshi's thing is a very basic, not quite right imitation, because his is only capable of dodging/evading attacks. In the manga, Whis says he's not actually using UI, but at the time he's the mortal closest to understanding and using it
If not for Goku transforming to look like an angel I might agree, but clearly like with Super Saiyajin God his genetics enable him to tap into this power and it alters his appearance as well in mastered form like his “limit break” x survivor, which is an awesome intro, especially after finally having heard the full version
I considered DBZA A viable dub. Mostly because that’s actually how I got into watching Dragon Ball. A buddy of mine started quoting it at random, and I kept asking him “what the hell are you talking about“, and he would always tell me “it’s Dragon Ball Z abridged“, and I’m like OK I got to see this shit. And that’s how I started watching y’all and fell in love with dragon ball.
Moro being a combo of every villain is good imo, it’s supposed to represent all of goku’s mistakes. Seth the programmer has this really good analysis about it in the second to last chapter reading, I think it’s actually well written Moro isn’t supposed to be a deep character, but embody all of goku’s mistakes for him to achieve UI and complete his arc
Wait how did u come to this conclusion Goku litteraly made the same mistake of giving morrow a sensu almost destroying the world just so he could fight him again. He didn't even beat him by himself he needed help from uub.
1:24:00 the jojo arguement wasn't that you can't start on whatever part you want, the arguement was the specific order jeff suggested watching the series
1:13:03 The Tuffles are a canon race. Have been for a long while. They just did not get much focus. The T.O.P. showed off one Zarbuto from Universe 2, but that is it.
If thy redo Broly as an arc in the anime I want them to spend more time on Planet Vegeta. Leave the fight fairly the same but elaborate o the Saiyan stuff.
Two more Oatmeal Raisen brethren confirmed!? As if I needed more reasons to love you guys and the work you do. Also, that tidbit about Martin being recognized as a Freeza is so wholesomely amazing and I love it. That's awesome. And seriously, someone called any of you a fake fan? Just...I don't even know how to process that. Don't get me wrong, I also used to be a gatekeeper when I was younger, hated that I used to be that way. But even I would never even consider you guys fake fans despite Kiran loving GT (jk love you Kiran). Asinine.
I can't help but wonder if there's gonna be a burst of furry interest in Moro if they do animate this arc, like what happened with Beerus. (Not counting the Diet Cell final design)
I literally grew up watching Dragon Ball-Dragon Ball Z. As a kid I never questioned why Goku had a tail in a world were the king of the Earth is a furry. By the time Dragon Ball Z started and they reveal that Goku has a tail because he is in fact an alien blew my childish mind
The singing in the beginning is a bit slow, but it is pretty good actually. I like the chorus, and I *really* love its usage when Goku goes Kaioken against Hit.
The way Kaiser describes the characters in the super manga makes it sound like all those accumulated blows to the head have finally come to fruition in dragon all.
Scott, there is a scene in the anime where it shows Trunks killing Dabura. That isn't just in the manga. In the anime it shows part of the fight where Dabura turns Trunk's sword to stone and then Trunks turns Super Saiyan 2 and kills him.
Dragon Ball WAS actually shown before DBZ in North America, very briefly in 95. It was very unpopular at the time and the dub was shortly cancelled but I definitely remember watching it as a kid
Question to Team Four Star: if you were to choose another anime series to abridge (hypothetically you had the time, resources, copyright legal stuff sorted out), which would you be most eager to do and why? Thank you so much for your constant content and videos to keep us entertained, and I wish your entire team and loved ones the best. Here's to 2021 and a possible Jo-July.
Great question!! I'm super glad they finished Hellsing but sad they didn't go farther with Attack on Titan. I would've loved just a few more episodes of that.
1:20:30 YES! THANK YOU! Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta absolutely deserved love. The pinkish fur on Goku was a bold choice but Vegeta's red just looks better lets be honest. Though to counter your point about Vegeta not "earning" Super Saiyan 4 I argue this - the only things that appear to be required to achieve Super Saiyan 4 are: 1. The Oozaru form (which Vegeta achieved via the Blutz Wave Generator in lieu of growing his tail back like Goku) 2. The Super Saiyan form (to become a Golden Oozaru) 3. Full Control of the Oozaru form/not being a rampaging monkey (which Vegeta has always had) By those standards Goku didn't earn it anymore than Vegeta did.
I thought that it was established that both Toyotaro and Toei were getting the same drafts from Toriyama, and that any extra things or differences between the two were at their discretions.
Right now my headcanon includes Super and the Timeline leading up to Online with the old movies, GT, and Heroes being the huge branching Timeline Trunks fucked up so bad it requires its own Supreme Kai.
The Pilaf Gang made the wish that turned them into kids during the Android attacks in Future Trunk's timeline, I believe the Manga has a flashback to it. Literally seconds before Piccolo is killed.
Can never go wrong with Chocolate chip. But I always say if your going to sin, then dive into the fire. CHOCOLATE CHUNK FUDGE COOKIES MADE OUT OF CHOCOLATE.
Honestly if Chris did both Frieza and Frost I would be down with Mills replacing him for Frost but I love how the Ayres Brother's voice both Frieza and his universe 6 counter part.
@@chriscannon8144 I mean the Kais haven't been relevant since the Buu Saga lol Shin is literally useless and does nothing. Him sacrificing himself to bring Merus back is by far the most substantial thing he's ever done. His fight with Buu was alright but still.
The ending was was not bad but I really dislike how unnecessarily and messily convoluted Toyotaro writes each arc's conclusion in order to tie in with another arc. Moro devolved into a mess of a character with a less interesting character design and becomes a planet somehow.... Zamasu becomes something that needs Whis to explain like he's seen it happen before (a universal wallpaper in the anime) because it just didn't make sense (even the anime didn't make sense). The Tourney of Power was the only arc that ended in the manga in a decent way, but was less interesting than the anime because they just wanted to move on to the next arc.
Something that is specific in the manga is that it actually shows Beerus being able to use Ultra Instinct at a basic level and they also make it clear among the other gods of destruction he is very high ranked if not top-dog since he takes on several other GoD's at the same time(he fights like 8 of them) and after completely destroying Vegeta says to him "in another universe you could've been a god of destruction" but that he's easily at least another million years away from even being an opponent for Beerus. So it might sound weird, but other than Toriyama's statement of Beerus using X percentage during battle of gods. Beerus being ahead of everyone still makes some sense. Since it could easily be assumed that Jiren might be stronger than some GoD's, if not most, but not Beerus.
My biggest problem with the Moro arc is that while it had a pretty good start (Moro noticing Goku sensing him was one of the coolest things ever), it just became increasingly obvious as it went on that it was *so* derivative. Like Kaiser said, Moro is basically just all the other villains rolled into one, but it's not even just him. The entire arc was a mishmash of plot beats from other arcs, some examples being the hunt for the Dragon Balls on Namek (Frieza Saga), Moro wishing for youth (King Piccolo Saga), the Z Fighters fighting henchmen to stall for Goku and Vegeta while Moro just watches (Resurrection F), Goku giving Moro a Senzu Bean (Cell Saga), and everyone giving their energy to Goku (Buu Saga). There was some good stuff there, but seeing just how much was being recycled from earlier arcs really brought it down for me. Really hoping this next arc can get away from all that and be more original. Also, for the Mai age thing, there was a special chapter in the manga where they showed that Pilaf made the wish even in Future Trunks' timeline. I think it happened during the three years before the Androids showed up or soon after they appeared, can't really remember. Edit: For Kaiser's discussion on how the attacks in Super don't look like they couldn't have happened in the Cell Saga, I understand that and think it's a problem too, but at the same time, I think that's been a problem since planet busting was a legitimate thing they could do. It's kind of hard to make attacks look more powerful when you know they could blow up planets since the Saiyan or Frieza Saga but aren't allowed to because they don't want to kill people and they're not able to breathe in space. Still, there are some attacks I think they did a pretty good job with like Toppo's giant Hakai blast that split the arena and turned the sky purple or when Goku's aura became so large that it turned into a galaxy.
I'd recommend you to read the last fight of Toriko, since its Planet Buster galore and shows that DB could be...specially because they have Dballs to undo any dmg
"there was a special chapter in the manga where they showed that Pilaf made the wish even in Future Trunks' timeline. I think it happened during the three years before the Androids showed up or soon after they appeared, can't really remember" Yeah, the manga in Super shows how Gohan slipped away from the fight with Androids 17 and 18, with Bulma and baby Trunks, to try to use the Dragonballs before Piccolo dies. But Pilaf uses them to wish for youth right before Gohan and Bulma can, and then Piccolo presumably dies, and it's all over. It's also neat because it explains why Gohan, Bulma, and Trunks were the only ones to survive the Androids' initial appearance.
I honestly never noticed that Ayres wasn't voicing Frieza (fight me) the whole time. I knew about his medical issues, but I just assumed he was being a massive trooper about it and was recovering more quickly than one would have thought.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/teamfourstar12201
when is the honorable mentions video coming
@@joeferri3491 I'd assume after #1.
@@Tuskin38 OK well let’s just last year it came out the same day as number two so maybe it might come out the same day as number one and then will get our dragon short on Christmas Day
Do you guys ever plan to do a Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure talkcast podshow?
@@thepyrostickfigure7637 OK I actually need that like right now about as much as another JoJo in minutes video
Scott, not sure if you knew. But in the printed manga, there’s a scene where it shows how cranberry survived. He’s the guy Zarbon kicked into the lake when the Namekian warriors show up in the original Dragon ball manga.
Because Zarbon killed him, the earth dragon ball wish to bring everyone back killed by Freeza and his men brought Cranberry back. Who then deserted and escaped using the ship Vegeta arrived in.
OH RIGHT I REMEMBER SEEING THAT
Haha, that's so fucking goooood.
@@KaiserNeko Merry Christmas Scott
And all the people Nappa killed are still dead.
@@ShinobiPXO well, technically he worked for Vegeta
@@KaiserNeko Hello Kaiser I have a quick question for you what are your thoughts in predictions on the new Dragon Ball Super movie announcement that stated to be released in 2022
18:00 LittleKuriboh being recognised as a Freeza is pretty goddamn amazing. Fucking tops to him.
Was that a video? Is there a way it can be seen?
@@kingusernamelxixthemagnificent Not that I've seen or been able to find, but there's pictures of it on his Twitter.
@@IBrowneeI Thanks!
Hearing Scott say "Ayres is getting better all the time" hits different in late 2021.
Yeah that part just instantly made me really sad for a hot minute
It was already established SSJ4 returns someone to their prime, it doesn’t “age you up”. That’s why when Goku transformed he returned to his fighting prime as an adult and when Vegeta transformed, Bulma remarked he looked younger (and this is emphasized by his hairstyle resembling his look in Z). I also know the pants don’t make much sense but it’s better than them going naked
Really? In the dub, Goku's aging up was attributed to the form being more powerful than the wish that made him a kid, returning him to his proper age. It would make a kind of sense though for SS4 to put you at your prime. Very interesting.
As for pants or no, that depends entirely on who you ask.
Its weird to say it returns them to their prime cause even the end of z establishes that goku and vegeta have no problem fighting at all. Theres nothing to imply that they aren't still as strong or even stronger than they were during the buu saga
@@DiZtheJedi iirc that wasn't directly said in the dub, it was some magazine or smth. The wish thing could be part of it, though; in the transformation scene when it shows all those naked Kid and Adult Gokus, then finally zooms in on the eye of Adult Goku I thought that was supposed to show the form enabling him to return to his adult body since that was his prime/"true self". But ig that's just me reading into visuals lol
@@jensennguyen02 well yeah ig it's just part of the aesthetic; like vegeta hadn't aged much physically bc saiyans, but his fighting days were mostly behind him so he resembled his old self more. even his gloves grew fingers lol
An explanation doesn't make it not dumb
As long as HxH is ongoing, no other manga release schedule can be “the worst”
I think its tied with Berserk imo😂
@@alexj848 I was just about to say that
@@alexj848 Nah Berserk has been better now and releasing chapters every few months. HxH has been on hiatus for over 2 years now.
Vagabond would like to know your location... don't expect it anytime soon though.😂
I've done the math on it. I'm pretty sure HxH and Beserk are about even. I think HxH is actually a bit better on average though.
Actually fun fact about fandubs on Yo Son Goku and Episode of Bardock. In Latin America, which treats fandubs with a lot more respect than the english speaking industry, there is a fandub of Episode of Bardock, that not only got some official members of the cast to do their roles, it managed to get noticed by the media to the point of being broadcasted on Cartoon Network as a Special episode of Kai.
When it comes to the fandub of Son Goku, the guy that played Goku for that fandub was recognized enough that he managed to officially do it for DBS: Broly in Argentina. He's obviously more than just a fandubber, but it's still something they took notice when checking on his performance.
That is so awesome to hear. I wish english studios cared less about their copyright like that and were more relaxed.
I mean there has been fan voice actors getting hired to play official roles--like the guy who voices Joker in the Batman Telltale games!--but it's just that, well, we've seen how Toei has treated TFS for a fan parody lol...
A cool idea for next DBcember would be the top 12 dragon ball tracks
The problem is the whole list would be filled with Bruce faulconer music.
Biggest problem is you couldn't play the music in the countdown.
@@mathewhaight not if Kaiser digs in his heels. Apart from a few he's not much of a fan of Faulconer tracks :(
@@ObligedUniform Does he not like the tracks themselves out how they’re used within DBZ? I thought the most common complaints were just that it didn’t fit the original tone of the show.
I would like, but it's at 69
Imagine saying "Happy Frieza Day" to the people who play Frieza.
"Make sure you put this picture in the archive"
"Oh yeah totally."
No picture. :(
They retconned Beerus using 70% of his power. They changed it to less than 10%.
Didn't they also pretty much say that Beerus was lying about that statment?
Zoinks!
@@ShadowEclipex beerus didn't say the percentage it was whis
Was that in the manga? If you make it 7% then the following arcs make a lot more sense. In the manga I know Gowasu was reluctant to say Vegetto surpassed even Beerus, but Vegetto is way stronger in the manga than anime. He practically curbstomps Fused Zamasu before his time runs out unexpectedly
Also let's not forget that even if we pretended as if Beerus was using 70%, that doesn't mean Goku was anywhere near 70% of Beerus's strength. Beerus was still fooling around, fighting lazily, didn't get a single scratch on him, and only pretended to be tired out at the end.
I started on JoJo Part 5 back in 2008 because I am EXTREMELY powerful.
I really want to say something relevant to part five, but I'm on part two so...
Wasn't expecting you here
Very interesting choice, but also probably the least connected to the rest of the series so I can see it being alright to read first, though I Stan reading part 6 first just cause
You know I was just thinking about how TFS and TTS are my two most searched acronyms on UA-cam
Part 5 is so oddly disconnected. It kind of works for me though.
It's obviously going to be Freeza's third form.
Hahaha
You fool it is obviously Hirudegarn
Not if they want to avoid a Ridley Scott lawsuit
Freeza lil mouth: nnnnnnnn
No... Frost's 3rd form.
In fairness, just about anything in the manga that isn't in the anime isn't Toriyama's draft, it's stuff Toyotaro came up with--Toriyama's drafts are basically just the stuff the two versions have in common.
A Bird approves of this video.
Oh good I only watch bird approved videos
Do you miss Android 16 Bird
So does an apple rabbit with a metal arm
Thank you A Bird, I value your input highly and this was the comment that made me watch this through to the end
Did u teach a dinosaur to ride a ball?
I would like to get an episode with breakdown of the Moro arc, high and low points, without fear of spoilers. There are some amazing highlights of the arc that it could be fun to hear you guys geek out about. The fun background details of the galactic prisoners, the fact that the Z B-Team gets some minor highlights, ect.
MasakoX has dbs chapter reviews of the moro arc on his channel
That’s what I thought/hoped this would be with the thumbnail
Honestly I'd love to see another episode like this one where Kaiser takes a deep dive into a different part of Dragon Ball. Maybe Buu saga or og Dragon Ball. It's super interesting to listen to you guys talk about this thing that you're so passionate and knowledgeable about in a candid even handed way.
honestly, the name of this episode left me disappointed that it _wasn't_ about og db
'Vegita would never underestimates someone'
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Goku
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Zarbon
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Recoome
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Frieza
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Metal Cooler
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Android 13 (not sure on the chronology)
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Brolly (not sure on the chronology)
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Android 18
-Vegita gets his shit wrecked by Perfect Cell
Only saw the Buu saga once like...10-15 years ago. But I'll hazard he shit talks someone he shouldn't have.
Vegita never actually loses to Goku though
During his first visit to Earth, it's ultimately Gohan, Krillin, and Goku as team that beat Vegeta. Even then: Goku is battered and broken, Gohan is knocked out, and Krillin can barely stand. Vegeta was defeated and put in his place when he underestimated Earth, but it was by no means as one sided as you make it seem
Goku had to spam Kaioken and tear his body into oblivion to even fight on an even playing field.
I wanna see Kiran talk about SSJ4 Gogeta in fighterz, I just wanna hear him because it makes me happy
A state of being is probably what you're looking for trying to explain Ultra Instinct.
The Kaioken is just an Aura change and blatant technique boosting speed, strength etc. Though the muscles do swell a bit but there's no actual physical transformation unlike Ultra Instinct with distinct and clear physical and mental changes.
Yeah. It's something you can achieve, but it's not something you turn into.
I like the manga version of UI, with Master Roshi able to dodge Jiren it makes it more of a state that any character can learn rather than just a saiyan or god thing.
@@Worm-revolver Roshi dodging a single attack from Jiren was retarded.
@@brettz5288 it happened during kind of a pep talk and Roshi, seemed to go into an imperfect UI, which I think could be indicative of maybe the human cast getting some love and being able to at least have some access to UI to make them relevant again.
I love it when you guys actually talk about Dragon Ball like you do for DB Cember
If you wanted to review Dragon Ball from beginning to end, arc by arc every couple of months I’d definitely watch it.
Piccolo: "Vegeta would NEVER underestimate an opponent. He just overestimates himself."
Hilariously, just as I said “Buff Roshi,” Kaiser commented “don’t worry, we talk about Buff Roshi.”
Dude you guys have, in the first 10 minutes, hit SO MANY OF MY CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES. "Oh Goku's early years! Cool prequel!" "Hey this is the same guy showing up as every other minor character in Yu Yu Hakusho.....das weird"
I was completely fine with Trunks' Spirit Sword. Inexplicable, yes; all they needed was a throwaway line regarding him training with Future Kaioshin!
Listening to this a year later hurts, a lot. R.I.P Christopher Ayres.
The potential Tuffle could still be a part of the lore. The broly movie doesn’t say King Cold gave the Saiyans space travel Bardock says that they made their fortunes conquering planets AND THEN Cold took over. They could still have dominated the Tuffles to get off their planet in the first place
That would make sense. The Saiyans killing off the Tuffles could have impressed King Cold and be why he hired/annexed them.
Top 12 mentors, mentors for any character, this is just my rating so you can use your own: their affect on the story, their affect on the character that is their student, how long they were the characters mentor, how much work you think they put in the mentor ( how good you think they look, how good you think their techniques, if they had any techniques, are), how many times does this mentor show up in the series and how many times does this mentor meet one of his students again, how good were this mentor's teaching methods, and how well did the series display the teachings of this mentor.
I want to see the Online timeline happen: Goku knows he's not long for the world and decides to have one last fight with Vegeta with Supernovas being seen years later as a result of this fight. But the one thing I would Change/Add is that, after that fight, Vegeta takes over as God of Destruction and honestly I see Goku taking over for King Kai; basically making him this legendary martial arts instructor in the afterlife that trains people who truly need it like him before Vegeta and Nappa.
I thought the implication was that they fought to the death.
@@TheAzulmagia yes that was implied, I just kinda like the idea of Vegeta going on to do bigger things. The Goku/King Kai thing literally came to me during my lunch break earlier today and I just really like it, it takes the Uub ending of Z to the Logical Extreme.
@@JustSomeMexicanwithaMustache thats just how I picture Vegeta's retirement because, unless they use the Super Dragon Balls to bring back Planet Vegeta and the Saiyans, he's basically just Bulma's Trophy Husband.
What I never understood about that is how much sense it didn't make, by the end of Z Vegeta was more caring for his wife and family over fighting, yet with online he just up and leaves, along with Goku (which also doesn't make too much sense) and fights til he hits his 80s, then dies
I also don't see them fighting to the death, neither could possibly bring themselves to kill the other, Goku is Goku, and Vegeta has a necessary dependence on Goku's existence, without Goku, Veget would have no more reason to live, besides his wife and kids, but he's millions of light-years away from them, and he has no access to instant Transmission, plus telling Chi-Chi, "Sorry kinda killed your husband" and vise versa, and Goku, without Vegeta, has no more reason to get stronger, Goku's drive is to stay ahead of Vegeta, the same way that Vegeta's drive is to catch up with Goku, however I see it being more devastating for Vegeta, because of Vegeta's pride, if Goku dies, he's finally won, now what? He loses everything he's worked so hard to surpass, now he's gone, there's nothing left
While Xenoverse, and I guess Heroes, are doing okay with Online's material, another sequel series would be cool. If only because the previously mentioned Xenoverse and Heroes seem to focus more on the time travel plotline than exploring a post Goku world.
Also, while I prefer Goku and Vegeta both going out with a bang, literally thanks to the supernova, the idea of the former becoming an honorary Kai and the latter taking Beerus' job, possibly by beating him, does sound cool.
I enjoy things like around 17:00 that give you an idea of the difficulty people have to deal with behind the scenes. Complainers don't usually understand that the companies or governments they take to task are usually actually a bunch of different bodies with competing goals and needs.
This is sort of tangential, but I find it funny/wierd how you guys put Janemaba almost in every DBecember list, from Villains to Fights to Transformations, mostly on the basis of how creative his moveset was, but then not only did none of his techniques make it into the top 12 Techniques list, he didn't even get mentioned in the honorable mentions for them!
Honestly it's probably just easy to forget stuff. Like ... There's alot of dragon ball content
@@mushroomkaat2667 Yeah, and I think Janemba is better than the sum of his parts. Perhaps no one technique truly stands out but as a collective moveset, it exudes creativity.
THATS CAUSE JANEMABA IS COOL AS HELL
@@the11thhour44 yea you would have to combine his dope teleportation and his dope sword sword slash for the dope dimensional sword combo
I think it's because Janemba's moves are natural abilities. The portals and stretching and reality manipulation are just inherent abilities that I don't think others could learn.
I think Geekdom summarizes the Ultra Instinct stuff way better than I ever could, but Ultra Instinct always seemed like a technique that becomes a transformation once you master it. Because when you're fully in it, it's like a different state, a higher state of mind
Always a treat hearing your thoughts on Dragon Ball. I personally ended up wanting to hear more about your thoughts on Moro because you really end up comparing him to other villains of the saga and left it at that. While yes, he's not the most unique in terms of WHAT he does, the WAY he does things ended up entertaining imo (the first encounter with the heroes was amazing).
Maybe do consider making a spoiler version of this podcast, I would love to hear it.
I loved the Moro arc. I think he was a good combination of Cell and Buu. I know a lot of people are annoyed by another absorb villain, but in a series that is all about transformation and different forms, I'm ok with the villains being similar. it also helps to think how he is the first on of Super. Favorite cookie is Chocolate Chip but have been really enjoying no bake oatmeal cookies.
I am a simple person i see a TFS alert I click.
@@itsknighttime9572 .... 2013 is when they were making good shit ?
Anyway I can understand being disappointed with a creator you used to like. I had a very similar experience with mat pat , game grumps and I few others. But you shouldn't tell others their bad for still liking this stuff ( unless it was a joke in which case ignore me )
Your chemistry is lovely in these podcasts.
Ultra instinct is a transformative technique. Same could be said about fusion.
Fusion makes them another character.
Yknow my favorite Goku moment is during the Raditz fight. Piccolo comments Goku must be pretty excited and Goku just says he is scared
Launch sneezing is really more of a technique to um... change her state of mind...yeah!
Moro was so interesting until he became Cell... Merus was the best part though! When he showed up I was mad af that he was able to keep up with Goku and make Vegeta look dumb lol but the payoff was great.
I used to really like oatmeal raisin cookies when I was a kid but as I got older I REALLY love white chocolate and macadamia nut cookies. Omg, when fresh out of the oven, it melts in your mouth 😛😋
My favorite cookies will always be double chocolate. I'll be honest, I was mostly a fan of dragonball because of my experience with the games until this channel and have now watched/read the whole thing, including GT, and rekindled my love for anime as a whole because of this channel. I can't see how anyone could possibly feel that you guys aren't fans.
I could literally listen to these guys talk about Dragon Ball for days.
Same, I'm here because I've rewatched all the DBcember stuff multiple times now lol
Still crossing fingers for a Top 12 Curb Stomps one of these days!
Merry Christmas, TFS!
Man, Tire- I mean Moro was a very strange villain. I totally agree with him being a "greatest hits" kind of threat.
Also Goku fucking it up; a la Cell Games, was a real odd throwback.
Waking up at 4:30/5 in the morning to watch original Dragon Ball sub and Sailor Moon. That was part of my childhood
You guys made my day first with no. 2 on the transformations list and now the retrospective. It makes me wonder though will they ever give vegeta an arc all his own?
Lani talking about the Universe 6 tournament arc: It reminds me of the Chuunin Exams
Abridged Vegeta: How dare
Lol, you guys are just awesome!
Also, Chocolate chip are the bomb! Snickernoodles too when made right. The ones at my community college were AMAZING! And my cousin's holly cookies. My 12 year old niece is supposed to be trying to make them for the first time on her own this year since my cousin has been laid up from kidney transplant surgery. Aunt Kara's got her fingers crossed!
Funimation: "IT'S NOT FAIR USE! IT'S STEALING!!"
Also Funimation: "Yeah, Of course Marting is an official Freeza."
Absolutely amazing for Martin! Being recognized as an Official Character-representative because of a parody series is amazing and goes to show what an outstanding job he did. But Funimation's gonna give me Whiplash at some point.
This year's dbcember has been the best in my opinion. Loved the episode on ssj4 especially.
I remember that era where the same guys/gals would pop up everywhere in dubs. The best was Schemmel showing up every few episodes of pokemon as a slight variant of King Kai.
Hey look, it's King Kai the scientist!
Now its King Kai the struggling pokemon trainer
Wait, when did King Kai join team rocket?
he was in yu yu hakusho as well as small roles like baldock the mind reader an roto ...hes in pokemon and yugioh as well
We still have this issue here in pizzaland. We got 10 voice actors and you end up hearing either the same voices or horrible voice acting
I really like Scott’s explanation of Zamasu’s pronunciation. It makes complete sense to me, as does why the dub uses the u at the end.
You can't tell me Soba isn't canon. He's the Yadrati prince of my heart!
something i love about the freeza hell scene in the English dub is that the... girlfriend?.. partner? for freeza's VA plays some of the bears tormenting freeza
My issue with Ultra Instict being called a transformation is that everyone we've seen use it apart from Goku himself doesn't change visually, Beerus stays the same, Whis is always using it pretty much so I dont know if that counts but still its only really a "transformation" for the monkey man himself
Every other individual that can reach UI isn't mortal. As far as I know, there's no canon precedence for a mortal achieving the godly state of UI, rather than just the regular martial arts concept of Mushin
@@Exxel91 Roshi
May not count because it wasn't full ultra instinct but he still did it a bit in the manga
@@bananagamr8180 Apparently Roshi's thing is a very basic, not quite right imitation, because his is only capable of dodging/evading attacks. In the manga, Whis says he's not actually using UI, but at the time he's the mortal closest to understanding and using it
If not for Goku transforming to look like an angel I might agree, but clearly like with Super Saiyajin God his genetics enable him to tap into this power and it alters his appearance as well in mastered form like his “limit break” x survivor, which is an awesome intro, especially after finally having heard the full version
I considered DBZA A viable dub. Mostly because that’s actually how I got into watching Dragon Ball. A buddy of mine started quoting it at random, and I kept asking him “what the hell are you talking about“, and he would always tell me “it’s Dragon Ball Z abridged“, and I’m like OK I got to see this shit. And that’s how I started watching y’all and fell in love with dragon ball.
Cooler's transformation was cool
I thought so too, but overtime I've grown to appreciate Cooler's base form more.
I honestly thought zamas was his original form and zamasu was when they fused for the longest time. For some reason it made all kinds of sense for me
Yeah like Zamas with the u from Goku. I can see that making sense.
Ohhhh, Zamas + Goku = Zamasu lol! Yeah that does make a good amount of sense.
Moro being a combo of every villain is good imo, it’s supposed to represent all of goku’s mistakes. Seth the programmer has this really good analysis about it in the second to last chapter reading, I think it’s actually well written
Moro isn’t supposed to be a deep character, but embody all of goku’s mistakes for him to achieve UI and complete his arc
Wait how did u come to this conclusion
Goku litteraly made the same mistake of giving morrow a sensu almost destroying the world just so he could fight him again. He didn't even beat him by himself he needed help from uub.
notification did not fail me today
Your discussion of Jojo oddly mirrors perfectly with my experience of Dragon Ball.
RIP Christopher Ayres
All Hail Lord Frieza
1:24:00 the jojo arguement wasn't that you can't start on whatever part you want, the arguement was the specific order jeff suggested watching the series
Part of the reason I love dbza to begin with is bc I can tell it was made by legitimate fans who have a love and respect for the series.
1:13:03 The Tuffles are a canon race. Have been for a long while. They just did not get much focus. The T.O.P. showed off one Zarbuto from Universe 2, but that is it.
If thy redo Broly as an arc in the anime I want them to spend more time on Planet Vegeta. Leave the fight fairly the same but elaborate o the Saiyan stuff.
Two more Oatmeal Raisen brethren confirmed!? As if I needed more reasons to love you guys and the work you do.
Also, that tidbit about Martin being recognized as a Freeza is so wholesomely amazing and I love it. That's awesome.
And seriously, someone called any of you a fake fan? Just...I don't even know how to process that. Don't get me wrong, I also used to be a gatekeeper when I was younger, hated that I used to be that way. But even I would never even consider you guys fake fans despite Kiran loving GT (jk love you Kiran). Asinine.
I can't help but wonder if there's gonna be a burst of furry interest in Moro if they do animate this arc, like what happened with Beerus.
(Not counting the Diet Cell final design)
Thanks for this guys. Like many, I was kinda down for not being able to see my family this year again but this was a nice treat to raise my mood.
Fine, I'll be the one to say it. Lani looks amazing with longer hair
48:40 - hey, he doesn't underestimate anyone! He just vastly overestimates himself.
Let's end this miserable year with a banger of a podcast
I literally grew up watching Dragon Ball-Dragon Ball Z. As a kid I never questioned why Goku had a tail in a world were the king of the Earth is a furry. By the time Dragon Ball Z started and they reveal that Goku has a tail because he is in fact an alien blew my childish mind
loved this episode, and i also hate people when people do that "you're not a real fan if you dont" i loved your dbza and it got me back into dbz
Am I the only person who really liked "Chōzetsu Dynamic"? ☹️
I like it aswell
It was good, and fits for most of the first part of Super. Though once it got to the Goku Black arc it was pretty unfitting.
I like it, it’s got a nice chill vibe that fits early Super
I loved that theme I really don’t see how it’s disliked
It’s way better than cha-la tbh
The singing in the beginning is a bit slow, but it is pretty good actually. I like the chorus, and I *really* love its usage when Goku goes Kaioken against Hit.
The way Kaiser describes the characters in the super manga makes it sound like all those accumulated blows to the head have finally come to fruition in dragon all.
Fun fact: Toriyama wrote the tuffle backstory for Z at Toei's request. But he decided not to use it in the manga.
I love you guys. Im sorry I didnt watch your live action show :(
Scott, there is a scene in the anime where it shows Trunks killing Dabura. That isn't just in the manga. In the anime it shows part of the fight where Dabura turns Trunk's sword to stone and then Trunks turns Super Saiyan 2 and kills him.
Nice show guys. Love rewatching the specials this time of year. Merry Christmas!
Scott's method of figuring out canon is honestly the same way I do it too.
Dragon Ball WAS actually shown before DBZ in North America, very briefly in 95. It was very unpopular at the time and the dub was shortly cancelled but I definitely remember watching it as a kid
Question to Team Four Star: if you were to choose another anime series to abridge (hypothetically you had the time, resources, copyright legal stuff sorted out), which would you be most eager to do and why? Thank you so much for your constant content and videos to keep us entertained, and I wish your entire team and loved ones the best. Here's to 2021 and a possible Jo-July.
Great question!! I'm super glad they finished Hellsing but sad they didn't go farther with Attack on Titan. I would've loved just a few more episodes of that.
1:20:30 YES! THANK YOU! Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta absolutely deserved love. The pinkish fur on Goku was a bold choice but Vegeta's red just looks better lets be honest.
Though to counter your point about Vegeta not "earning" Super Saiyan 4 I argue this - the only things that appear to be required to achieve Super Saiyan 4 are:
1. The Oozaru form (which Vegeta achieved via the Blutz Wave Generator in lieu of growing his tail back like Goku)
2. The Super Saiyan form (to become a Golden Oozaru)
3. Full Control of the Oozaru form/not being a rampaging monkey (which Vegeta has always had)
By those standards Goku didn't earn it anymore than Vegeta did.
I thought that it was established that both Toyotaro and Toei were getting the same drafts from Toriyama, and that any extra things or differences between the two were at their discretions.
Right now my headcanon includes Super and the Timeline leading up to Online with the old movies, GT, and Heroes being the huge branching Timeline Trunks fucked up so bad it requires its own Supreme Kai.
The Pilaf Gang made the wish that turned them into kids during the Android attacks in Future Trunk's timeline, I believe the Manga has a flashback to it. Literally seconds before Piccolo is killed.
The Black Arc in the Manga was fireeeee
With JoJo, I started at the beginning in sub because of the memes, favorite cookie is chocolate chip because I'm basic as hell
One of the trappings with lists is justifying why one item is higher than another, and that almost necessitates pointing out flaws and shortcomings.
Can never go wrong with Chocolate chip. But I always say if your going to sin, then dive into the fire. CHOCOLATE CHUNK FUDGE COOKIES MADE OUT OF CHOCOLATE.
The best animation in all of Dragon Ball was from the original Piccolo Arc through to the end of the Saiyan Invasion Arc.
Honestly if Chris did both Frieza and Frost I would be down with Mills replacing him for Frost but I love how the Ayres Brother's voice both Frieza and his universe 6 counter part.
The first half of the Moro arc was incredible, but the second half didn't live up to the hype
Agreed, had a really good start, I love that they touched up on Buu & the Kais again because I thought the they were slowly becoming irrelevant.
@@chriscannon8144 I mean the Kais haven't been relevant since the Buu Saga lol Shin is literally useless and does nothing. Him sacrificing himself to bring Merus back is by far the most substantial thing he's ever done. His fight with Buu was alright but still.
@@johnhouston1590 Why does everyone keep saying that phrase, it's making me miss "OK Boomer". But fair enough, I suppose.
@@chriscannon8144 What phrase?
The ending was was not bad but I really dislike how unnecessarily and messily convoluted Toyotaro writes each arc's conclusion in order to tie in with another arc. Moro devolved into a mess of a character with a less interesting character design and becomes a planet somehow.... Zamasu becomes something that needs Whis to explain like he's seen it happen before (a universal wallpaper in the anime) because it just didn't make sense (even the anime didn't make sense). The Tourney of Power was the only arc that ended in the manga in a decent way, but was less interesting than the anime because they just wanted to move on to the next arc.
Something that is specific in the manga is that it actually shows Beerus being able to use Ultra Instinct at a basic level and they also make it clear among the other gods of destruction he is very high ranked if not top-dog since he takes on several other GoD's at the same time(he fights like 8 of them) and after completely destroying Vegeta says to him "in another universe you could've been a god of destruction" but that he's easily at least another million years away from even being an opponent for Beerus.
So it might sound weird, but other than Toriyama's statement of Beerus using X percentage during battle of gods. Beerus being ahead of everyone still makes some sense. Since it could easily be assumed that Jiren might be stronger than some GoD's, if not most, but not Beerus.
I could listen to you guys talk about DB for hours, haha.
My biggest problem with the Moro arc is that while it had a pretty good start (Moro noticing Goku sensing him was one of the coolest things ever), it just became increasingly obvious as it went on that it was *so* derivative. Like Kaiser said, Moro is basically just all the other villains rolled into one, but it's not even just him. The entire arc was a mishmash of plot beats from other arcs, some examples being the hunt for the Dragon Balls on Namek (Frieza Saga), Moro wishing for youth (King Piccolo Saga), the Z Fighters fighting henchmen to stall for Goku and Vegeta while Moro just watches (Resurrection F), Goku giving Moro a Senzu Bean (Cell Saga), and everyone giving their energy to Goku (Buu Saga). There was some good stuff there, but seeing just how much was being recycled from earlier arcs really brought it down for me. Really hoping this next arc can get away from all that and be more original.
Also, for the Mai age thing, there was a special chapter in the manga where they showed that Pilaf made the wish even in Future Trunks' timeline. I think it happened during the three years before the Androids showed up or soon after they appeared, can't really remember.
Edit: For Kaiser's discussion on how the attacks in Super don't look like they couldn't have happened in the Cell Saga, I understand that and think it's a problem too, but at the same time, I think that's been a problem since planet busting was a legitimate thing they could do. It's kind of hard to make attacks look more powerful when you know they could blow up planets since the Saiyan or Frieza Saga but aren't allowed to because they don't want to kill people and they're not able to breathe in space. Still, there are some attacks I think they did a pretty good job with like Toppo's giant Hakai blast that split the arena and turned the sky purple or when Goku's aura became so large that it turned into a galaxy.
I'd recommend you to read the last fight of Toriko, since its Planet Buster galore and shows that DB could be...specially because they have Dballs to undo any dmg
"there was a special chapter in the manga where they showed that Pilaf made the wish even in Future Trunks' timeline. I think it happened during the three years before the Androids showed up or soon after they appeared, can't really remember"
Yeah, the manga in Super shows how Gohan slipped away from the fight with Androids 17 and 18, with Bulma and baby Trunks, to try to use the Dragonballs before Piccolo dies. But Pilaf uses them to wish for youth right before Gohan and Bulma can, and then Piccolo presumably dies, and it's all over. It's also neat because it explains why Gohan, Bulma, and Trunks were the only ones to survive the Androids' initial appearance.
Loved dragon ball abridged
I honestly never noticed that Ayres wasn't voicing Frieza (fight me) the whole time. I knew about his medical issues, but I just assumed he was being a massive trooper about it and was recovering more quickly than one would have thought.