The way I look at it, there's Blood Moon and there's Ruination. And a deck that hates Ruination will probably also get blown out by "From the Ashes," the fixed Ruination. Blood Moon is the gentleman's Ruination. But the kind of person who would pull up to a casual table with Golos 5c $5k goodstuff deserves to get hit by blood moon into ruination.
I build every deck with the thought of these cards in the back of my mind. In my 3+ color decks, I often run 3 to 6 basics. But I do that knowing those cards exist and are a possibility. I'd prefer getting blown out by ruination over losing to oracle + consultation any day.
Great video. Think the best way to think of stax isn’t necessarily *resource denial* as it is *option denial*. Rule of One being a great example as to essentially establish a new resource (the one spell you get each turn) to deny players the option of casting multiple spells a turn. Drannith Magistrate removes the option to cast spells not from hands. Blind Obedience removes the option of using creatures or artifacts the same turn. Etc…
I played against a zozu MLD deck the other day and it was honestly a lot of fun! There was this whole mini game of anticipating the next land wipe, deciding when to play lands, and waiting for your chance to ramp into plays. Wouldn’t want every game to be like that but it was a blast!
Oh man, I played Wave of Vitriol in a 5-player pod last Sunday! It was savage because for three of the players they had fewer basics left in their deck then non-basics on the field. Building up to it from a really slow start it got me back into the game and out from having to deal with a Darksteeel Colossus and I managed to win it... 3 hours later, anyway. But I didnt cast the next 3 board wipes so that's on them!
I love Keldon Firebombers. I play it in my Sacrifice deck. Splendid Reclamation, Worldshaper and many other shenanigans ensue. I play a bunch of these cards. Balancing the game is good and may make it longer but if you break parity you are the one who comes out on top. I may start running Dimensional Breach and you missed mentioning one of your favorite cards with it. Pull From Eternity! Get that Vorinclex out of the exile zone and into the graveyard. To be honest I don't see Vorinclex as much as I used to. Playing my own Cataclysm screwed me because I hadn't read the card and missed the land part. If you can get to six mana Brought Back works really well with it as well. Eight mana? Faith's Reward and Cataclysm. My dream (never got to do it with the deck I made) would be It That Betrays and Cataclysm.
Fascinating video. I feel it is worth exploring the lesser used cards/strategies to diversify how games unfold and are won. And it is an interesting challenge to use these more brutal cards in a way that wins games rather than lose friends!
I have an Osgir deck with Soulscour. The first time I played it, I actually read it and noticed it that it doesn't spare lands. Then I kept playing it and realizing that I would win if it resolved, usually within 2 turns, sometimes 3, and all turns following its resolution go really quickly. I consider it on par with extra turn spells in that it helps enable wins.
The problem with "dragging a game" out is that some players can only play for 3 hrs on game night every week. And those 5 or 6 extra turns sometimes mean they actually get to play less mtg overall because they can't start a game with only 45 minutes left
Scooping do be always an option. That's fair on a game to game situations. In my opinion, every playstyle be it amicable to play casually with or against can always be summed up as "they can always scoop" so it's less of an indication of whether or not you should play a certain deck in any given circumstances . It's ok to play whatever style you like but I guess just make sure your opponents or your pods know that they might be in for a longer game. @Mariano Sanchez Melo nothing against you if it seem that way. Just want to expand on what I said before
I wasn't expecting to see some cards I've played before in this video. I run Balancing Act in my Noyan Dar deck, because I usually don't have much more in play than lands and my commander. Also a big fan of Arena of the Ancients and Crackdown. Dimensional Breach is also a super cool card, might need to grab a copy of it. I liked the comparison to Warp World and The Great Aurora, I run those in a Phylath deck as a wincon. It's interesting that they kinda feel like the opposite of Dimensional Breach, specifically with token strategies, since Warp World and The Great Aurora will give you more non-token permanents, while Dimensional Breach gives you less. Anyways, great video! I'm really happy I've discovered this channel.
Your Videos are so inspiring and educational! Love your channel! So many cards that I have never seen and definitely think to get them to put in my EDH decks. Cheers from Germany 🍻
I build a Negan deck back when that secret lair dropped. Going into it, I knew that literally everyone was going to hate on that commander/deck because of the secret lair itself and the character from the WD series. Possessed Portal and Smokestack were two villainous cards that I was very excited to play in this ultimate bad guy deck. When either of these hit the table and do their work, I just say, "It's ok to concede." And most pods are ok with it given the option to fold and move on to the next game.
Negan is awesome, so many paths you can go down when you build him. Artifact, reanimate, aristocrat, blink, incremental vs explosive plays, combat vs combo. Fark yeah 🤘
This always seems like a hollow win to me. It’s one thing to demonstrate an infinite/near-infinite combo and asking if ppl want to scoop instead of just watching me go through my combo. It’s another thing to make the game so miserable that no one wants to play and then asking if they want to just quit playing. I’ve done these kinds of things and after about the third time I just removed those types of cards because even winning felt like shit when the only reason I won was no one was having fun anymore and just wanted to play a new game to attempt to have fun again. It was never a victory I could feel good about.
Balancing Act seems really fair play probably working best in a deck where you can sac all your own creatures first, dimensional breach will be breaking out if suspended cards become a thing
at the end of the day, this is a strategic game. "shutdown" strategies have been around since the very beginning of the game, i.e. Stasis, Wrath, Armageddon. not liking a strategy doesn't make it an invalid strategy, and nothing is uncounterable.
It's not only a strategic game. It's also social. even comp 1v1 format cards and banned lists are designed for desirable play patterns, not just strategic balance. Playing in a tournament you're expected to only consider strategy. when playing for fun it's also about what's fun to the players.
I’m theory-crafting a Mardu mass land destruction deck. One of the combos is Balancing Act combined with Rain of Filth. Cast Rain of Filth, tap all lands to float mana, sacrifice all lands to float more mana, and then cast Balancing Act. Follow up plays would be Faith’s Reward (asymmetrical rebuilding) with landfall triggers or Second Sunrise (symmetrical rebuilding) but with something like an Ankh of Mishra, Polluted Bonds, Tunnel Ignus, or Zo-Zu the Punisher on the table.
I’m willing to run Balancing Act, my Liesa deck is a little more controlling and doesn’t put too much on the board. I’m already trying to punish people who go really wide or try to storm off, it seems fair. Agreed that Tangle Wire is fine absent shenanigans, I might try it in my Osgir deck. Possessed Portal could work in my Prosper deck, but I really just don’t want to. Winning the game with it would take me an hour if I didn’t die to attacks. Cataclysm I used to play in my first commander deck in 2012, now I only would if I had a plan for my commander to win afterward like your Myojin combo. If a game pushes 2 hours and people spend a lot of that entirely out of gas, it gets less fun to me at some point, but a long game where everyone’s deck actually shines and part of their plan happens can be great.
I don't agree with the argument that these cards are fine because they can be played wrong or that they are symmetrical. The issue with these cards is that they make the game unfun by slowing things down to a glacial pace. If someone plays it wrong, not only do they suffer from their misplay, but everyone else does too. In regard to dragging the game out, I think it refers to causing the game to last longer with turns where players aren't doing anything. If, for example, a player misplays Cataclysm or another player removes their win-con in response, all players now have 1 land. They've likely already played out a lot of their lands in their hand. Rather than play more magic, most players will just be drawing, maybe using one of the permanents they kept, and then passing until they finally draw and play enough lands to start casting spells again. I think most players would agree that this isn't fun or an interesting game state. Resetting permanents other than lands is good since the game keeps progressing and it prevents the player who just set up the quickest from winning too quickly. Resetting lands down to 1 or 0 invalidates what previously happened in the game and will cause the game to slow to a crawl as players have to reset their land base without having a starting hand with enough of them. It's already hard enough to make sure you have a starting hand which will set you up to get enough mana. Having to repeat the process without having a starting hand you can mulligan into is painful While some of these things are susceptible to removal, "dies to removal" isn't a good argument for why something is okay. Unless someone fills their deck with tons of removal, draws an absurd amount of cards, or has plenty of tutors, it's very much possible for no one to have the correct removal for a particular problematic card. Additionally, there is more than just the one problematic card. Removal will get spent throughout the game. Just because a card can be removed, doesn't mean it's okay. If a card either gets removed or ruins the game, that isn't a great place for the card to be in unless it's expensive, takes setup, and wins the game as opposed to putting it in a boring state where players have to pass a lot of turns before doing anything. I'm much more okay with cards like Keldon Firebombers and Dimensional Breach since they allow players to recover. 3 lands is enough to reasonably continue playing from while Dimensional Breach will allow you to rebuild your board eventually. This'll extend the game but in a way where players can do more than just hope and pray they draw lands in order to start doing anything again. Once you get past the first few turns of the game, I don't want an opponent's card to put me back to just playing lands and passing unless it's a win condition.
Just responding to the "dragging the game out" paragraph. I totally see your point of view and know loads of people are in the same boat. For me, having a game state after a Cataclysm where that player's had their win-con removed in response is fun and interesting (I've actually been in a game where this happened). It doesn't so much invalidate what's happened previously in the game so much as it rewards players that have some sort of protection/redundancy, and those who haven't over-extended by playing out their whole hand. It's akin to starting a new game in that the next few turns are pretty quick because not much is happening, then things start picking up again. As someone who doesn't care about winning / number of wins / number of games and gets enjoyment instead from the interaction and table banter, this is completely fine for me :)
Totally agree with you about Blood Moon and land hate in general. People want to play out their 5c good stuff decks without ever having to think about their opponents having any sort of interaction and these are exactly the cards that make them think.
I generally never have a problem with playing against ld and blood moon. I play a few 5 color good stuffs so people realize how easy it is to get around cards like that and not be completely shut down by just a single card.
Great video! I do think that it is important to acknowledge that at the end of the day - it really boils down to what your playgroup agreed upon, right? I would compare it to watching a movie in a cinema. I always check how long it is beforehand because that determines whether the movie experience is what I am prepared for (for example, many might not mind a 3-hour MCU movie). Similarly, if cards are going to drag out the game, that's fine if I have time to spare today. But if I am made a new deck and I want more games in to get more opportunities to test the deck - probably generally favorable to have shorter games, and thus these cards wouldn't make me feel good. Communication is everything!
I have no qualms with Cataclysm. It changes the game direction, like you said, and it’s also a mass planeswalker removal card, so giving the finger to atraxa superfriends!😂
Possibility Storm is my favorite "nasty" piece. This card disable a lot of combo and control strategies and allow the Tribal/big creatures decks to play the game a little Besides its a CAST trigger so you can use in a nasty way like in a Krark or Zada deck.
I think Crackdown is stax. Tapping your permanents is a resource, mana dorks, attacking, and most activated abilities to name a few. Yeah it’s pretty fair and I wouldn’t be mad about it but it is turning off resources the same as if it said non basic lands don’t untap or winter orb
One of my favorite cards that a lot of people don't like is Warp World. I love the random possibilities that it can give you but a lot of players in my area will scoop if it gets played.
I like the way you think. I know a guy who's played a Jokulhaups as a board wipe because he's behind, and then the game goes on for 10 more turns. Like, just pick a different board wipe if that's how you're playing it.
I'm sure it's already been said somewhere in the comments, and I know you've said it too, Demo, but I am totally okay with Cyclonic Rift. For real, an opponent overloading it while we're all getting swarmed by another opponent has saved the entire table more times than I can count.
as far as “dragging the game out” goes, i hear that as “intentionally forcing the game to go longer for the sake of making it longer and not having a plan for it” i dont mind if a game is longer, but when some generally unfun things are happening for the whole table, id rather someone be able to wrap the game up so we can move on to the next game.
I don't understand why you say it's "necessary" to land hate the players running more colors... I have a 5 color sliver deck because I like the idea of slivers. It's not a 5 color good stuff deck... but it's "necessary" to hose my ability to play instead of the guy with turn 1 Krenko. You're basically saying "screw this guy because he had to work out his mana base more than 'moar moontins plz', he doesn't deserve to play at the same table as mono me." I find play to be far more enjoyable when you have ways to stop your opponent from winning, rather than preventing them from being able to play. I get to play magic like 1 night a week though, so maybe my idea of time well spent is not the norm. Generally though, if I'm forcing 3+ other people to sit there and watch while essentially say "you don't get to play, but you can't leave" is just a dick way to play. There's PLENTY of interaction that doesn't prevent play on a massive scale... can't cast more than 1 per turn is still playing... better than "you can play mana rocks and get something out by turn 8, maybe". Society is littered with people that have the mindset of a crab in a pot... "If I can't, you can't".... I don't really like playing magic with people like that. Guaranteeing a win by preventing others from even playing is public self-gratification, just with pants on. At least make it quick so we can clean up and move on. EDIT: I guess you have to stop the player with 10 fetches and 10 duals... but like you said, stop playing with that player if you aren't on that level. Guess I haven't had that issue.
i don't believe i said it was necessary to hate on 5 colors. it's just necessary to have land hate in the format. more so for landfall decks than 5 color decks.
Sometimes my friends agree on "no winning/attacking till turn 15" just to see how ridiculous the board gets. It's goofy, someone gets 300 squirrels, or 500 life, or whatever. Everyone has fun because the point of the game isn't winning. People having that need to win win win win win is why dickheads say things like "removal wins games"
I was about to say that. Typically in Shirei if I have a free sac outlet and some draining creatures I can pretty much win without ever drawing another card in just a few turn cycles, and obviously it makes the sacrificing non-symmetrical.
I completely agree on your points. Simic value is a problem? Don't shy away from balance effects. 5c good stuff? Nonbasic land hate. Fast mana and comboing off? Slow them down. Most of the problems we have in the format is taboos on playing solutions. Otherwise it's just people being jerks, so don't play with them.
well for the land destruction ones on the list you forgot another combo along with teferi's protection you can tap every single land to hold your mana and cast stuff that way in particular you cast stuff like this Crucible of worlds Ramunap Excavator Splendid reclaimation The mending of Dominaria Planar birth Faith's reward brought back Scaretiller and that could be game ending since your gonna be able to do what you want for the win and they have to watch and like you said as long as it that turn or next turn you will be fine. and for a card that qualifies for the underplayed series and that's "Sacred ground" because that stasis's people from playing their Armageddon effects since you just immediately get the lands back
I'm game with all of this except that portal. I can't even draw my way to removal, I gotta have it on deck. Even then I'd be alright if you could end it in a turn or two
@@edhdeckbuilding you don't have to play either card 4head. I hate the mentality that either extremely broken (like craterhoof) or extremely jank unfun stax pieces (like everything in this video) need to be played
Possessed Portal is crazy in a 4 multiplayer game. It means in 1 full turn there will be a total of 16 cards discarded/sacrificed cards. This is so evil, I like it!!!😈😈😈
Yeah he actually missed how that worked. It's my favorite wincon in Glissa the Traitor Smokestacks. Also, works really well with Life from the Loam (you choose which replacement effect to apply, apply the Dredge 3).
@@twilightwolf90 I'm in the process of the building a CEdh Nath deck. Maybe Possessed Portal is way to slow for the format but I imagine and explosive ritual/lake of the dead/rain of filth turn to jam into play on turn 4 or 5 with Nath into in play. Finishing them with after 2 or 3 turn cycles with elves tokens and Tinybones activation!!!💀😈💣
No problem with any of these when played under the right strategy. I actually have a card I'd like to mention for Nasty consideration >> Force Fruition in my Nekusar deck is one I've seen people just scoop to if it hits the board.
I am a simple man and typically tutor for Elesh Norn and than use Kamahl fist of Krosa and turn their lands into 1/1's or Triskelion/Kamahl and again ping the 1/1's. Last time I was able to destroy 3 of my opponents land which stopped them from being able to cast Sphere of Safety which would have basically won them game. I won the next turn with blinking Rhonas god-eternal 3 times :p
Balancing Act is such a good card to punish those overpower deck that ramp ramp ramp, draw draw draw in unfair way, that has likes 20 permanents at turn 3, whiles everybody else probably just have 3 lands and 2-3 permanents.
I kinda disagree with the 'dragging the game out' rebuttal of 'Well, we're playing more Magic', since usually the only one playing Magic after resolving spells like these is the one that casts them while the rest of the table's stuck in draw-go mode, but part of the issue is probably previous playgroups having vindictive behaviors. I don't mind extending the game if everyone is still playing, but it can run into a similar issue as Monopoly, where one person's most likely going to win but there's just enough of an outside chance of a turn-around that everyone else sticks around to see if the archenemy makes a mistake. Good points overall, though, and I certainly agree that many of these cards are a mindset/deck problem more than problems themselves.
Agreed on the "well, we're playing Magic" statement. I brought a Krark/Sakashima deck to my regular pod for a league game, and about 10 minutes into a turn of flipping tons of coins for an attempt at a non-deterministic win, I looked over to the bored and frustrated faces of my friends and instantly regretted building the thing. Sure, I was having fun, but they clearly were not. And that's not in the spirit of Commander. Tore the deck apart and while I love the concept, it will never be rebuilt. I've been at the butt-end of some horrible solitaire decks where the person is just drawing and flipping and getting their deck to go off without anyone able to do any interaction, and it becomes a "ok, dude, can you just tell us you won so we can get to the next game so we can all play?"
You could always just play a big baddie before you cast the spell. Kinda like the vorinclex situation except you're the one who gets it lmao Edit: it also works really well with Emeria Shepard if you're playing mono white and have some stuff in your graveyard
I use it in narset chaos, always bring her back first, then use her to deploy more chaos while everyone has to play into some difficult choices and unexpected triggers. It works when you have the better board state already or the best piece you’re going to bring back that gets the ball rolling in your favor before anyone else
An-zerrin ruins a big middle finger to that slivers player, and i bought a whole lot of arena of the ancients copies because it shuts a bunch of people down for a while because you wait for the right moment and suddenly you have complete board control. Stax is good and necessary i think in a lot of pods because it can level and balance the game when someone gets ahead to quickly.
Overlord into Harmonizing handles it pretty easily. I’d actually say Slivers are hurt much less than most tribal decks, assuming Overlord is the commander
@@baconsir1159 most people i play have all the boss slivers in the 99 because playing morophon gives them abiltly to play everything for free mostly. Plus always save your removal for the key slivers anyway. So slivers in my "playgroup" ramp to 7 and in mean time play the unoffensive slivers like flying, haste, gemstone. And then tutor for the overlord and from there morophon, overlord, anything you want game over.
@@mrnekomaneki01 If that's your playgroup then yeah this will probably work. According to EDHRec Overlord is the most popular by a bit, with Morophon Sliver Tribal not even breaking 300 decks. Only First Sliver is even close, losing out by a couple hundred (a lot of First Sliver decks are food chain). Not to mention that he can tutor for Morophon.
Possessed Portal in a Magda deck where you can spit out enough treasure tokens to sac to it is very gross. I only had it once to screw with the cEDH Nekusar player.
I actually really like hall of gemstone, didn't know about it but now I know of it I'll put it in a few decks. Blood moon I still dislike as to me it screws fun stuff
I am fine with these cards. I mean I run a colourless Eldrazi Deck with the whole package Mana Crypt, Vault, Ancient Tomb, all the Titans etc etc etc... Thing is some people don't like playing against that to those I say just give it a try in a not competitive pod I often don't make optimal plays on purpose and the role playing aspect of playing literal mana eating eldritch gods can be fun for the whole table :D Don't hate powerful cards and decks in general, look out for who plays them and how they play them. Trust me I have made so many people laugh playing against my horros :P Also casting an Eldrazi Conscription on an opponents creature because he helped you out is one of the most benevolent gifts the dwellers of the blind eternities can offer a believer ;D
I don't like Tangle Wire against turbo ramp decks. They have more permanents in play than non-ramp decks so they are affected less. Static Orb/Winter Orb is more effective, but is too strong for more casual games, and force you to break parity (which makes the cards even stronger and more hated). Natural Balance/Oath of Lieges/newer white cards that ramp up to the green player are awesome as well.
btw, if an opponent is trying to kill me in a casual game (like they all do) its only fair for me to try to slow down my eventual demise with nether void. its only unfun for the over competitive or those with little patience!
I've built group hug using some of the white pieces here to keep the table from spiralling out of hand. Cataclysm when your choices are a good creature, a howling mine, and an oath of lieges, can lead to some interesting play. An MVP I expected to make the list but considering how crowded it is, I see why not: Natural Balance. In short, it puts the whole table at 5 lands, whether they had less or more, in mono green. Cool video, the best to ya.
I agree that Blood Moon and similar cards are needed for hindering multi-color decks. However, I don't think the job of hindering multi-color decks should be on the opponent. The real issue is that lands like fetch-lands make it so going for lots of colors has basically no cost. I'd much rather see some lands which remove the cost of going 3+ color banned along with cards that overly hate on lands that help fix colors like Blood Moon. Going 3+ colors should cost more than a bit of life to use fetch lands. If it did, Blood Moon and similar cards wouldn't be needed in the format.
“Damn, you want to consistently be able to play the cards in your hand? No bro you can’t u gotta wait 10 turns to draw into the right colors.” If they’re playing Esper or something they’re going to run almost all non-basics, even if we ignore fetches, because that allows them to actually reliably play the cards they draw. Punishing them for reliably playing the cards they draw is dumb. Literally saying “You can no longer play the game” because they built their deck with a good manabase is mega dumb, and it’s obvious why they wouldn’t want to play with you.
@@baconsir1159 Are you saying that I think players shouldn't run non-basics, shouldn't be able to play cards in a 3+ color deck, and should be susceptible to cards like Blood Moon turning their decks off? I didn't mean to say any of that. I'd prefer the cost of playing 3+ colors to be having more lands enter tapped and needing to take time to set up your colors. Ideally, not all their lands would enter tapped, but players shouldn't be able to reliable just pay some life and be able to play 5 colors without any tapped lands. It makes it really difficult to justify commanders in fewer colors since adding colors to a commander deck is almost all upside. Adding colors to a deck should always be a trade-off of gaining more options but losing consistency with your mana base. I don't want players to be unable to play the cards in their hand, just delayed due to tapped lands and maybe missing a color early on. Nothing that stops them from playing, just stuff that delays them. The current system of just running fetches and paying a bit of life for them makes adding colors to a commander deck nearly a strict upgrade. I don't like cards like Blood Moon. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. They're unfortunately the only thing keeping 3+ color decks in check in terms of not paying any price for their additional colors. Optimally, the cost of running extra colors would be innate to those decks and cards like Blood Moon wouldn't be needed. I play with a budget 5 color deck that uses guild gates to fix its mana. Guild gates can be searched up really easily so my colors are consistent but a lot of my lands enter tapped. The deck still feels good to run and feels fair. I have access to tons of options due to being in 5 colors but I struggle a bit due to my lands entering tapped. It doesn't stop me from playing, but my extra options from deckbuilding come at a real cost other than paying a bit of life. I can even run Maze's End as a possible win condition. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. I didn't want to come across as being in support of locking players out of the game.
@@infamousXsniper055 I fully disagree with the notion that 3+ color decks ought to be slower than their 1-2 color counterparts because they have more card options, and the idea that punishing 3+ color decks for playing otherwise with a 3-CMC "you cannot play the game" spell is fair is absurd. It's true that multicolor decks have objectively larger card pools and I'm annoyed by 5-color goodstuff as the next guy, but the idea that multicolor decks need to be counterbalanced completely relies on the assumption that 1 and 2 color decks are outclassed by 3+ color decks. This just isn't the case. There's more on the card than just its color identity. Krenko, Prosper, Anowon, Meren, Lathril, Niv-Mizzet Parun, Sythis, Teysa Karlov, K'rrik, Urza, Orvar, Yisan, Kinnan, Jhoira, Tergrid, Dina, there are TONS of 1 and 2 color decks that compete with 3+ colors. Color pie is a benefit but it isn't the end-all decider of how good a card is, and the idea that punishing them with a 3-mana "You cannot play" card is in any way fair is absurd. Mostly referring to Blood Moon. The enchant world one is fine as it just makes you switch the color to any potential answer. Most 3+ color decks literally cannot answer Blood Moon at all once it hits the field. Maaaybe Chaos warp if they happen to be in red and hard draw it.
I love these cards too but My problem with playing them has been becoming targeted by the whole table. People seem to be okay losing to turbo 5c stuff or combo enough to not hate the combo player. But as soon as I do a little stax or chaos to keep the combo players in check, even the non-combo players hate on me for light stax pieces. L. Can't seems to convince them
Yeah, many people hate the fun police. People are a lot more accepting of 1 time effects than something continuous that turns their deck off. It's not in your ability to control what people think or feel, all you can do is find a play group who is like-minded.
Unpopular opinion but I do not care at all what cards people play. I don’t care who wins or how you win. Just the act of playing is fun and being able to see weird or possibly rude cards that aren’t played often is really fun and interesting.
I draw the line at Armageddon and fun casual environment everything that is less powerful than it even if its just more mana costed with same ability is fine by me.
Mark my words, if WotC keeps throwing treasure-engine cards around like they have over the past 3 years, mass land destruction will be a variety of removal that won’t be socially heinous anymore. I saw a Prosper deck not too long ago that barely ran any lands b/c they use THAT many treasures. The format is changing-and playgroups need to be talking about what their social contracts are.
I think if you have the luxury and flexibility of playing multiple decks then there should be some sort of agreement on power level. You saying it’s a mentality. Others say don’t have the player hate the game.
I would like to put Soulscour in the list, ten mana destroy everything that aint artifacts I used to run on a daxos, all the costs are really low, so its kinda the armageddon thing but waaay more desesperate, (if you're playing artifacts then is just being mean but on a regulador deck, you kep your mana rocks, a few lands in hand and there you go
One of my favorite cards is actually emrakul but is a bit of a feel bad for the opponents that i play it against i usually tri to win as them since i play ehit people whit decks that can do that but idk people dont really want u tonolay their cards even if thei get a turn after
The way I look at it, there's Blood Moon and there's Ruination. And a deck that hates Ruination will probably also get blown out by "From the Ashes," the fixed Ruination. Blood Moon is the gentleman's Ruination. But the kind of person who would pull up to a casual table with Golos 5c $5k goodstuff deserves to get hit by blood moon into ruination.
I build every deck with the thought of these cards in the back of my mind. In my 3+ color decks, I often run 3 to 6 basics. But I do that knowing those cards exist and are a possibility. I'd prefer getting blown out by ruination over losing to oracle + consultation any day.
Great video. Think the best way to think of stax isn’t necessarily *resource denial* as it is *option denial*.
Rule of One being a great example as to essentially establish a new resource (the one spell you get each turn) to deny players the option of casting multiple spells a turn.
Drannith Magistrate removes the option to cast spells not from hands.
Blind Obedience removes the option of using creatures or artifacts the same turn. Etc…
Also Possessed Portal is "at each end step, EACH player does this". It's disgusting. I love it.
By the time it gets back to you, you'll have discarded 4 cards, lmao. That's gotta be pretty crazy
Flashback deck
I had it in my Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar deck just bc it's a win-con and I don't actually DRAW cards, so the first section doesn't effect me
Tiny Bones, Trinket Thief
it is one of the "win cons" in my Malcolm+Sakashima deck where i make 4-9 treasures each turn
"Dragging the game out? Do you not like playing magic?" Love it!😂😂
I played against a zozu MLD deck the other day and it was honestly a lot of fun! There was this whole mini game of anticipating the next land wipe, deciding when to play lands, and waiting for your chance to ramp into plays. Wouldn’t want every game to be like that but it was a blast!
Oh man, I played Wave of Vitriol in a 5-player pod last Sunday! It was savage because for three of the players they had fewer basics left in their deck then non-basics on the field. Building up to it from a really slow start it got me back into the game and out from having to deal with a Darksteeel Colossus and I managed to win it... 3 hours later, anyway. But I didnt cast the next 3 board wipes so that's on them!
I love Keldon Firebombers. I play it in my Sacrifice deck. Splendid Reclamation, Worldshaper and many other shenanigans ensue.
I play a bunch of these cards. Balancing the game is good and may make it longer but if you break parity you are the one who comes out on top.
I may start running Dimensional Breach and you missed mentioning one of your favorite cards with it. Pull From Eternity! Get that Vorinclex out of the exile zone and into the graveyard. To be honest I don't see Vorinclex as much as I used to.
Playing my own Cataclysm screwed me because I hadn't read the card and missed the land part. If you can get to six mana Brought Back works really well with it as well. Eight mana? Faith's Reward and Cataclysm. My dream (never got to do it with the deck I made) would be It That Betrays and Cataclysm.
Fascinating video. I feel it is worth exploring the lesser used cards/strategies to diversify how games unfold and are won.
And it is an interesting challenge to use these more brutal cards in a way that wins games rather than lose friends!
I have an Osgir deck with Soulscour. The first time I played it, I actually read it and noticed it that it doesn't spare lands. Then I kept playing it and realizing that I would win if it resolved, usually within 2 turns, sometimes 3, and all turns following its resolution go really quickly. I consider it on par with extra turn spells in that it helps enable wins.
Ogir can be a nasty bugger. I play the Lattice in mine, people aren't prepared for lands to get wrecked, it ends the game shortly after.
The problem with "dragging a game" out is that some players can only play for 3 hrs on game night every week. And those 5 or 6 extra turns sometimes mean they actually get to play less mtg overall because they can't start a game with only 45 minutes left
true,but they also can scoop,if they don´t like it
Scooping do be always an option. That's fair on a game to game situations. In my opinion, every playstyle be it amicable to play casually with or against can always be summed up as "they can always scoop" so it's less of an indication of whether or not you should play a certain deck in any given circumstances . It's ok to play whatever style you like but I guess just make sure your opponents or your pods know that they might be in for a longer game.
@Mariano Sanchez Melo nothing against you if it seem that way. Just want to expand on what I said before
I wasn't expecting to see some cards I've played before in this video. I run Balancing Act in my Noyan Dar deck, because I usually don't have much more in play than lands and my commander. Also a big fan of Arena of the Ancients and Crackdown.
Dimensional Breach is also a super cool card, might need to grab a copy of it. I liked the comparison to Warp World and The Great Aurora, I run those in a Phylath deck as a wincon. It's interesting that they kinda feel like the opposite of Dimensional Breach, specifically with token strategies, since Warp World and The Great Aurora will give you more non-token permanents, while Dimensional Breach gives you less.
Anyways, great video! I'm really happy I've discovered this channel.
Your Videos are so inspiring and educational! Love your channel! So many cards that I have never seen and definitely think to get them to put in my EDH decks.
Cheers from Germany 🍻
Thank you so much!
I build a Negan deck back when that secret lair dropped. Going into it, I knew that literally everyone was going to hate on that commander/deck because of the secret lair itself and the character from the WD series. Possessed Portal and Smokestack were two villainous cards that I was very excited to play in this ultimate bad guy deck. When either of these hit the table and do their work, I just say, "It's ok to concede." And most pods are ok with it given the option to fold and move on to the next game.
Negan is awesome, so many paths you can go down when you build him. Artifact, reanimate, aristocrat, blink, incremental vs explosive plays, combat vs combo. Fark yeah 🤘
This always seems like a hollow win to me. It’s one thing to demonstrate an infinite/near-infinite combo and asking if ppl want to scoop instead of just watching me go through my combo. It’s another thing to make the game so miserable that no one wants to play and then asking if they want to just quit playing. I’ve done these kinds of things and after about the third time I just removed those types of cards because even winning felt like shit when the only reason I won was no one was having fun anymore and just wanted to play a new game to attempt to have fun again. It was never a victory I could feel good about.
Balancing Act seems really fair play probably working best in a deck where you can sac all your own creatures first, dimensional breach will be breaking out if suspended cards become a thing
at the end of the day, this is a strategic game. "shutdown" strategies have been around since the very beginning of the game, i.e. Stasis, Wrath, Armageddon. not liking a strategy doesn't make it an invalid strategy, and nothing is uncounterable.
"Nothing is uncounterable"
(Laughs in vexing shusher)
Why do you take so many words to say you want to be mean?
It's not only a strategic game. It's also social. even comp 1v1 format cards and banned lists are designed for desirable play patterns, not just strategic balance.
Playing in a tournament you're expected to only consider strategy. when playing for fun it's also about what's fun to the players.
I’m theory-crafting a Mardu mass land destruction deck. One of the combos is Balancing Act combined with Rain of Filth. Cast Rain of Filth, tap all lands to float mana, sacrifice all lands to float more mana, and then cast Balancing Act.
Follow up plays would be Faith’s Reward (asymmetrical rebuilding) with landfall triggers or Second Sunrise (symmetrical rebuilding) but with something like an Ankh of Mishra, Polluted Bonds, Tunnel Ignus, or Zo-Zu the Punisher on the table.
I’m willing to run Balancing Act, my Liesa deck is a little more controlling and doesn’t put too much on the board. I’m already trying to punish people who go really wide or try to storm off, it seems fair.
Agreed that Tangle Wire is fine absent shenanigans, I might try it in my Osgir deck.
Possessed Portal could work in my Prosper deck, but I really just don’t want to. Winning the game with it would take me an hour if I didn’t die to attacks.
Cataclysm I used to play in my first commander deck in 2012, now I only would if I had a plan for my commander to win afterward like your Myojin combo. If a game pushes 2 hours and people spend a lot of that entirely out of gas, it gets less fun to me at some point, but a long game where everyone’s deck actually shines and part of their plan happens can be great.
I don't agree with the argument that these cards are fine because they can be played wrong or that they are symmetrical. The issue with these cards is that they make the game unfun by slowing things down to a glacial pace. If someone plays it wrong, not only do they suffer from their misplay, but everyone else does too.
In regard to dragging the game out, I think it refers to causing the game to last longer with turns where players aren't doing anything. If, for example, a player misplays Cataclysm or another player removes their win-con in response, all players now have 1 land. They've likely already played out a lot of their lands in their hand. Rather than play more magic, most players will just be drawing, maybe using one of the permanents they kept, and then passing until they finally draw and play enough lands to start casting spells again. I think most players would agree that this isn't fun or an interesting game state. Resetting permanents other than lands is good since the game keeps progressing and it prevents the player who just set up the quickest from winning too quickly. Resetting lands down to 1 or 0 invalidates what previously happened in the game and will cause the game to slow to a crawl as players have to reset their land base without having a starting hand with enough of them. It's already hard enough to make sure you have a starting hand which will set you up to get enough mana. Having to repeat the process without having a starting hand you can mulligan into is painful
While some of these things are susceptible to removal, "dies to removal" isn't a good argument for why something is okay. Unless someone fills their deck with tons of removal, draws an absurd amount of cards, or has plenty of tutors, it's very much possible for no one to have the correct removal for a particular problematic card. Additionally, there is more than just the one problematic card. Removal will get spent throughout the game. Just because a card can be removed, doesn't mean it's okay. If a card either gets removed or ruins the game, that isn't a great place for the card to be in unless it's expensive, takes setup, and wins the game as opposed to putting it in a boring state where players have to pass a lot of turns before doing anything.
I'm much more okay with cards like Keldon Firebombers and Dimensional Breach since they allow players to recover. 3 lands is enough to reasonably continue playing from while Dimensional Breach will allow you to rebuild your board eventually. This'll extend the game but in a way where players can do more than just hope and pray they draw lands in order to start doing anything again. Once you get past the first few turns of the game, I don't want an opponent's card to put me back to just playing lands and passing unless it's a win condition.
Just responding to the "dragging the game out" paragraph. I totally see your point of view and know loads of people are in the same boat. For me, having a game state after a Cataclysm where that player's had their win-con removed in response is fun and interesting (I've actually been in a game where this happened). It doesn't so much invalidate what's happened previously in the game so much as it rewards players that have some sort of protection/redundancy, and those who haven't over-extended by playing out their whole hand. It's akin to starting a new game in that the next few turns are pretty quick because not much is happening, then things start picking up again. As someone who doesn't care about winning / number of wins / number of games and gets enjoyment instead from the interaction and table banter, this is completely fine for me :)
Welp. The Meria, Scholar of Antiquity deck im building loves that Possessed Portal. Definitely adding it. Thanks!
Totally agree with you about Blood Moon and land hate in general. People want to play out their 5c good stuff decks without ever having to think about their opponents having any sort of interaction and these are exactly the cards that make them think.
I generally never have a problem with playing against ld and blood moon. I play a few 5 color good stuffs so people realize how easy it is to get around cards like that and not be completely shut down by just a single card.
@@chrisjones3372 which is why they need to print more nonbasic land hate. It's too easy to fix your mana these days
Great video! I do think that it is important to acknowledge that at the end of the day - it really boils down to what your playgroup agreed upon, right? I would compare it to watching a movie in a cinema. I always check how long it is beforehand because that determines whether the movie experience is what I am prepared for (for example, many might not mind a 3-hour MCU movie). Similarly, if cards are going to drag out the game, that's fine if I have time to spare today. But if I am made a new deck and I want more games in to get more opportunities to test the deck - probably generally favorable to have shorter games, and thus these cards wouldn't make me feel good. Communication is everything!
I have no qualms with Cataclysm. It changes the game direction, like you said, and it’s also a mass planeswalker removal card, so giving the finger to atraxa superfriends!😂
I love to play Cataclysm in my Oloro Deck with Test of Endurance or Felidar Sovereign out. Can be a great help for these Win-Cons.
Possibility Storm is my favorite "nasty" piece.
This card disable a lot of combo and control strategies and allow the Tribal/big creatures decks to play the game a little
Besides its a CAST trigger so you can use in a nasty way like in a Krark or Zada deck.
The Krark deck idea is amazing!!
Another great video. Dimensional Breach usually means a 10-hour game though
primal order and ancient runes are a couple of my favorites
I think Crackdown is stax. Tapping your permanents is a resource, mana dorks, attacking, and most activated abilities to name a few. Yeah it’s pretty fair and I wouldn’t be mad about it but it is turning off resources the same as if it said non basic lands don’t untap or winter orb
Its stax. Its just not land stax.
One of my favorite cards that a lot of people don't like is Warp World. I love the random possibilities that it can give you but a lot of players in my area will scoop if it gets played.
I like the way you think. I know a guy who's played a Jokulhaups as a board wipe because he's behind, and then the game goes on for 10 more turns. Like, just pick a different board wipe if that's how you're playing it.
I use cataclysm in my galea,kindler of hope. It’s a great win con. I also run bounce land to recoup quickly.
I'm sure it's already been said somewhere in the comments, and I know you've said it too, Demo, but I am totally okay with Cyclonic Rift. For real, an opponent overloading it while we're all getting swarmed by another opponent has saved the entire table more times than I can count.
I have issues with many of the cards in this format but land destruction will never be one of them.
as far as “dragging the game out” goes, i hear that as “intentionally forcing the game to go longer for the sake of making it longer and not having a plan for it” i dont mind if a game is longer, but when some generally unfun things are happening for the whole table, id rather someone be able to wrap the game up so we can move on to the next game.
That or making it so nothing meaningful happens for multiple turns.
I don't understand why you say it's "necessary" to land hate the players running more colors... I have a 5 color sliver deck because I like the idea of slivers. It's not a 5 color good stuff deck... but it's "necessary" to hose my ability to play instead of the guy with turn 1 Krenko. You're basically saying "screw this guy because he had to work out his mana base more than 'moar moontins plz', he doesn't deserve to play at the same table as mono me."
I find play to be far more enjoyable when you have ways to stop your opponent from winning, rather than preventing them from being able to play. I get to play magic like 1 night a week though, so maybe my idea of time well spent is not the norm. Generally though, if I'm forcing 3+ other people to sit there and watch while essentially say "you don't get to play, but you can't leave" is just a dick way to play.
There's PLENTY of interaction that doesn't prevent play on a massive scale... can't cast more than 1 per turn is still playing... better than "you can play mana rocks and get something out by turn 8, maybe". Society is littered with people that have the mindset of a crab in a pot... "If I can't, you can't".... I don't really like playing magic with people like that.
Guaranteeing a win by preventing others from even playing is public self-gratification, just with pants on. At least make it quick so we can clean up and move on.
EDIT: I guess you have to stop the player with 10 fetches and 10 duals... but like you said, stop playing with that player if you aren't on that level. Guess I haven't had that issue.
i don't believe i said it was necessary to hate on 5 colors. it's just necessary to have land hate in the format. more so for landfall decks than 5 color decks.
Sometimes my friends agree on "no winning/attacking till turn 15" just to see how ridiculous the board gets. It's goofy, someone gets 300 squirrels, or 500 life, or whatever. Everyone has fun because the point of the game isn't winning. People having that need to win win win win win is why dickheads say things like "removal wins games"
Our play group has no restrictions or band list. Our group just adapts and changes with the different cards that are played.
I run Posssessed Portal in my Shirei, shizo caretaker deck. fits perfectly for a mono black/artifact deck
I was about to say that. Typically in Shirei if I have a free sac outlet and some draining creatures I can pretty much win without ever drawing another card in just a few turn cycles, and obviously it makes the sacrificing non-symmetrical.
@@littlel9906 Exactly!, and with cards like Sling-gang lieutenant or Marsh flitter you keep creating fodder to sac or attack.
I completely agree on your points. Simic value is a problem? Don't shy away from balance effects. 5c good stuff? Nonbasic land hate. Fast mana and comboing off? Slow them down. Most of the problems we have in the format is taboos on playing solutions. Otherwise it's just people being jerks, so don't play with them.
well for the land destruction ones on the list you forgot another combo along with teferi's protection
you can tap every single land to hold your mana and cast stuff that way in particular you cast stuff like this
Crucible of worlds
Ramunap Excavator
Splendid reclaimation
The mending of Dominaria
Planar birth
Faith's reward
brought back
Scaretiller
and that could be game ending since your gonna be able to do what you want for the win and they have to watch and like you said as long as it that turn or next turn you will be fine.
and for a card that qualifies for the underplayed series and that's "Sacred ground" because that stasis's people from playing their Armageddon effects since you just immediately get the lands back
You can go Cataclysm>Teferi’s Protection. That’s a win.
Dimensional Breech is great in a manifest deck. I actually put one in my manifest deck when I saw your episode that it was in so big thanks for that
wow great idea
I have come to love Dimensional Breach, especially in my Bruna-Aura Voltron deck.
I'm game with all of this except that portal. I can't even draw my way to removal, I gotta have it on deck. Even then I'd be alright if you could end it in a turn or two
can't draw into removal with a craterhoof either. you're just dead.
@@edhdeckbuilding true, that's why I'm saying I'm fine if you end it quick.
@@edhdeckbuilding you don't have to play either card 4head. I hate the mentality that either extremely broken (like craterhoof) or extremely jank unfun stax pieces (like everything in this video) need to be played
Possessed Portal is crazy in a 4 multiplayer game. It means in 1 full turn there will be a total of 16 cards discarded/sacrificed cards. This is so evil, I like it!!!😈😈😈
Yeah he actually missed how that worked. It's my favorite wincon in Glissa the Traitor Smokestacks. Also, works really well with Life from the Loam (you choose which replacement effect to apply, apply the Dredge 3).
Also super awesome in Nath of the Gilt Leaf
@@twilightwolf90 I'm in the process of the building a CEdh Nath deck. Maybe Possessed Portal is way to slow for the format but I imagine and explosive ritual/lake of the dead/rain of filth turn to jam into play on turn 4 or 5 with Nath into in play. Finishing them with after 2 or 3 turn cycles with elves tokens and Tinybones activation!!!💀😈💣
I won a pretty competitive game with cataclysm with a smothering tithe on my own board :D
4:00 I used smoke against a krenko deck once.... he played Throne of the God-Pharaoh xD
I love contamination, playing it in a goblin deck is awesome
i need more episodes of this series
How does your Myojin have a counter on it if you cast it from the command zone?
No problem with any of these when played under the right strategy. I actually have a card I'd like to mention for Nasty consideration >> Force Fruition in my Nekusar deck is one I've seen people just scoop to if it hits the board.
I am a simple man and typically tutor for Elesh Norn and than use Kamahl fist of Krosa and turn their lands into 1/1's or Triskelion/Kamahl and again ping the 1/1's. Last time I was able to destroy 3 of my opponents land which stopped them from being able to cast Sphere of Safety which would have basically won them game. I won the next turn with blinking Rhonas god-eternal 3 times :p
Balancing Act is such a good card to punish those overpower deck that ramp ramp ramp, draw draw draw in unfair way, that has likes 20 permanents at turn 3, whiles everybody else probably just have 3 lands and 2-3 permanents.
I wanna play fall of the thran in my Raff deck so I can Armageddon at instant speed, but my opponents would hate me
Scout's Warning into Desolation Angel you say?
I kinda disagree with the 'dragging the game out' rebuttal of 'Well, we're playing more Magic', since usually the only one playing Magic after resolving spells like these is the one that casts them while the rest of the table's stuck in draw-go mode, but part of the issue is probably previous playgroups having vindictive behaviors. I don't mind extending the game if everyone is still playing, but it can run into a similar issue as Monopoly, where one person's most likely going to win but there's just enough of an outside chance of a turn-around that everyone else sticks around to see if the archenemy makes a mistake. Good points overall, though, and I certainly agree that many of these cards are a mindset/deck problem more than problems themselves.
Agreed on the "well, we're playing Magic" statement. I brought a Krark/Sakashima deck to my regular pod for a league game, and about 10 minutes into a turn of flipping tons of coins for an attempt at a non-deterministic win, I looked over to the bored and frustrated faces of my friends and instantly regretted building the thing. Sure, I was having fun, but they clearly were not. And that's not in the spirit of Commander. Tore the deck apart and while I love the concept, it will never be rebuilt. I've been at the butt-end of some horrible solitaire decks where the person is just drawing and flipping and getting their deck to go off without anyone able to do any interaction, and it becomes a "ok, dude, can you just tell us you won so we can get to the next game so we can all play?"
Man, I love Dimensional Breach, not sure how to make it work in my favor though
You could always just play a big baddie before you cast the spell. Kinda like the vorinclex situation except you're the one who gets it lmao
Edit: it also works really well with Emeria Shepard if you're playing mono white and have some stuff in your graveyard
I use it in narset chaos, always bring her back first, then use her to deploy more chaos while everyone has to play into some difficult choices and unexpected triggers. It works when you have the better board state already or the best piece you’re going to bring back that gets the ball rolling in your favor before anyone else
An-zerrin ruins a big middle finger to that slivers player, and i bought a whole lot of arena of the ancients copies because it shuts a bunch of people down for a while because you wait for the right moment and suddenly you have complete board control.
Stax is good and necessary i think in a lot of pods because it can level and balance the game when someone gets ahead to quickly.
Overlord into Harmonizing handles it pretty easily. I’d actually say Slivers are hurt much less than most tribal decks, assuming Overlord is the commander
@@baconsir1159 most people i play have all the boss slivers in the 99 because playing morophon gives them abiltly to play everything for free mostly. Plus always save your removal for the key slivers anyway. So slivers in my "playgroup" ramp to 7 and in mean time play the unoffensive slivers like flying, haste, gemstone. And then tutor for the overlord and from there morophon, overlord, anything you want game over.
@@mrnekomaneki01 If that's your playgroup then yeah this will probably work. According to EDHRec Overlord is the most popular by a bit, with Morophon Sliver Tribal not even breaking 300 decks. Only First Sliver is even close, losing out by a couple hundred (a lot of First Sliver decks are food chain). Not to mention that he can tutor for Morophon.
Dimensional breach Sounds really fun. I think, I should get some
I use possessed portal in my Prosper deck.... its great
The part about playing mass dedtruction to win, and not doing it out of spite is the key here. Plan for it, try to win in the silence of Armageddon.
Possessed Portal in a Magda deck where you can spit out enough treasure tokens to sac to it is very gross. I only had it once to screw with the cEDH Nekusar player.
Oh boy this is cruel, time to put it in my magda deck
I actually really like hall of gemstone, didn't know about it but now I know of it I'll put it in a few decks. Blood moon I still dislike as to me it screws fun stuff
Hall of Gemstone is an instant target but it is so fun to pull out because so many people don't know of it!
I am fine with these cards.
I mean I run a colourless Eldrazi Deck with the whole package Mana Crypt, Vault, Ancient Tomb, all the Titans etc etc etc...
Thing is some people don't like playing against that to those I say just give it a try in a not competitive pod I often don't make optimal plays on purpose and the role playing aspect of playing literal mana eating eldritch gods can be fun for the whole table :D
Don't hate powerful cards and decks in general, look out for who plays them and how they play them. Trust me I have made so many people laugh playing against my horros :P
Also casting an Eldrazi Conscription on an opponents creature because he helped you out is one of the most benevolent gifts the dwellers of the blind eternities can offer a believer ;D
I rub purphoros with impact tremors as my goblin commandrr for the exact reason of that first card.
this should be a series :)
not sure there's enough of them out there for me to make more than one.
Get around Hall of Gemtstones with mana rocks I suppose
16:40 this could go in the jaxis deck!
Can you do another 10 nasty cards you like?
Balancing Act in a Codie Deck sounds funny to me.
How do you feel about rule of law effects?
fine with it. i usually only cast one spell per turn anyway.
I don't like Tangle Wire against turbo ramp decks. They have more permanents in play than non-ramp decks so they are affected less. Static Orb/Winter Orb is more effective, but is too strong for more casual games, and force you to break parity (which makes the cards even stronger and more hated). Natural Balance/Oath of Lieges/newer white cards that ramp up to the green player are awesome as well.
btw, if an opponent is trying to kill me in a casual game (like they all do) its only fair for me to try to slow down my eventual demise with nether void. its only unfun for the over competitive or those with little patience!
I've used Armageddon when someone used a blood moon once
That escalated quickly.
@@Seedmember I was sick of not having lands, I wanted everyone to know how it felt.
@@theliving1037
I think you got the message through 😂
@@Seedmember yea, I actually did win that game. Had I think 2 artifact that gave mana so had a little advantage.
I like your funny words magic man!
Arena of the Ancients is great in a Merieke Ri Beret deck
Possessed Portal isn’t turn player, EACH player sacrifices at the end of every turn.
Arcane Lab is one i love.
I've built group hug using some of the white pieces here to keep the table from spiralling out of hand. Cataclysm when your choices are a good creature, a howling mine, and an oath of lieges, can lead to some interesting play.
An MVP I expected to make the list but considering how crowded it is, I see why not: Natural Balance. In short, it puts the whole table at 5 lands, whether they had less or more, in mono green.
Cool video, the best to ya.
To quote Janet Jackson, "you nasty boy"
I agree that Blood Moon and similar cards are needed for hindering multi-color decks. However, I don't think the job of hindering multi-color decks should be on the opponent. The real issue is that lands like fetch-lands make it so going for lots of colors has basically no cost. I'd much rather see some lands which remove the cost of going 3+ color banned along with cards that overly hate on lands that help fix colors like Blood Moon.
Going 3+ colors should cost more than a bit of life to use fetch lands. If it did, Blood Moon and similar cards wouldn't be needed in the format.
“Damn, you want to consistently be able to play the cards in your hand? No bro you can’t u gotta wait 10 turns to draw into the right colors.”
If they’re playing Esper or something they’re going to run almost all non-basics, even if we ignore fetches, because that allows them to actually reliably play the cards they draw. Punishing them for reliably playing the cards they draw is dumb. Literally saying “You can no longer play the game” because they built their deck with a good manabase is mega dumb, and it’s obvious why they wouldn’t want to play with you.
@@baconsir1159 Are you saying that I think players shouldn't run non-basics, shouldn't be able to play cards in a 3+ color deck, and should be susceptible to cards like Blood Moon turning their decks off? I didn't mean to say any of that.
I'd prefer the cost of playing 3+ colors to be having more lands enter tapped and needing to take time to set up your colors. Ideally, not all their lands would enter tapped, but players shouldn't be able to reliable just pay some life and be able to play 5 colors without any tapped lands. It makes it really difficult to justify commanders in fewer colors since adding colors to a commander deck is almost all upside. Adding colors to a deck should always be a trade-off of gaining more options but losing consistency with your mana base. I don't want players to be unable to play the cards in their hand, just delayed due to tapped lands and maybe missing a color early on. Nothing that stops them from playing, just stuff that delays them. The current system of just running fetches and paying a bit of life for them makes adding colors to a commander deck nearly a strict upgrade.
I don't like cards like Blood Moon. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. They're unfortunately the only thing keeping 3+ color decks in check in terms of not paying any price for their additional colors. Optimally, the cost of running extra colors would be innate to those decks and cards like Blood Moon wouldn't be needed.
I play with a budget 5 color deck that uses guild gates to fix its mana. Guild gates can be searched up really easily so my colors are consistent but a lot of my lands enter tapped. The deck still feels good to run and feels fair. I have access to tons of options due to being in 5 colors but I struggle a bit due to my lands entering tapped. It doesn't stop me from playing, but my extra options from deckbuilding come at a real cost other than paying a bit of life. I can even run Maze's End as a possible win condition.
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. I didn't want to come across as being in support of locking players out of the game.
@@infamousXsniper055 I fully disagree with the notion that 3+ color decks ought to be slower than their 1-2 color counterparts because they have more card options, and the idea that punishing 3+ color decks for playing otherwise with a 3-CMC "you cannot play the game" spell is fair is absurd.
It's true that multicolor decks have objectively larger card pools and I'm annoyed by 5-color goodstuff as the next guy, but the idea that multicolor decks need to be counterbalanced completely relies on the assumption that 1 and 2 color decks are outclassed by 3+ color decks. This just isn't the case. There's more on the card than just its color identity.
Krenko, Prosper, Anowon, Meren, Lathril, Niv-Mizzet Parun, Sythis, Teysa Karlov, K'rrik, Urza, Orvar, Yisan, Kinnan, Jhoira, Tergrid, Dina, there are TONS of 1 and 2 color decks that compete with 3+ colors. Color pie is a benefit but it isn't the end-all decider of how good a card is, and the idea that punishing them with a 3-mana "You cannot play" card is in any way fair is absurd.
Mostly referring to Blood Moon. The enchant world one is fine as it just makes you switch the color to any potential answer. Most 3+ color decks literally cannot answer Blood Moon at all once it hits the field. Maaaybe Chaos warp if they happen to be in red and hard draw it.
I love these cards too but My problem with playing them has been becoming targeted by the whole table. People seem to be okay losing to turbo 5c stuff or combo enough to not hate the combo player. But as soon as I do a little stax or chaos to keep the combo players in check, even the non-combo players hate on me for light stax pieces. L. Can't seems to convince them
Yeah, many people hate the fun police. People are a lot more accepting of 1 time effects than something continuous that turns their deck off. It's not in your ability to control what people think or feel, all you can do is find a play group who is like-minded.
The price you pay for doing you. I use theft themes and get hated out fairly fast. You get used to it
Cataclysm plus tergrid for some extra spice
Unpopular opinion but I do not care at all what cards people play. I don’t care who wins or how you win. Just the act of playing is fun and being able to see weird or possibly rude cards that aren’t played often is really fun and interesting.
I draw the line at Armageddon and fun casual environment everything that is less powerful than it even if its just more mana costed with same ability is fine by me.
LOVE-THIS-ATTITUDE!:)
Mark my words, if WotC keeps throwing treasure-engine cards around like they have over the past 3 years, mass land destruction will be a variety of removal that won’t be socially heinous anymore. I saw a Prosper deck not too long ago that barely ran any lands b/c they use THAT many treasures. The format is changing-and playgroups need to be talking about what their social contracts are.
MLD will be heinous forever, unfortunately. People are super protective of lands
Possessed portal plus It that betrays
I love crackdown in my angel deck
Warp world makes my oppenents love the game because its like a chaos warp for every card in play token decks love it but spell slingers despise it
Hey Demo, what’s your meanest deck?
well i actually have dimensional breach and balancing act in my sigrid deck. so maybe that one.
I think if you have the luxury and flexibility of playing multiple decks then there should be some sort of agreement on power level. You saying it’s a mentality. Others say don’t have the player hate the game.
I would like to put Soulscour in the list, ten mana destroy everything that aint artifacts
I used to run on a daxos, all the costs are really low, so its kinda the armageddon thing but waaay more desesperate, (if you're playing artifacts then is just being mean but on a regulador deck, you kep your mana rocks, a few lands in hand and there you go
Too bad i can't play any game extender cards because our playgroups games always take like 3 to 6 hours anyways.
Dimensional Breach plus Barren Glory equals win
Thanks !
Playing Cataclysm isnt crazy at all. Great card.
Maralen Mornsong and Op agent by turn 3 usually does it lol if that doesn't do it ob nicous unshackled by turn 4 does it. 😂
I'm actually the kind of person that will play with anything. But I cut things from my decks that specific friend groups don't find fun.
I like Ensnaring Bridge a lot.
One of my favorite cards is actually emrakul but is a bit of a feel bad for the opponents that i play it against i usually tri to win as them since i play ehit people whit decks that can do that but idk people dont really want u tonolay their cards even if thei get a turn after
No black or blue cards on the list?
The word you were looking for is "salty". 😜