The device says its designed for 10-11mm static rope, so it probably wouldnt work on a 9.5mm dynamic line ? Just asking because my sport rope is 80m long wheras my bulkier static line is only 30-40meters
3:35 (recommended rope 10mm semi static) do you have a rope preference with your devices? looking to buy a new rope, can't decide between the tendon secure and the camp iridium (the former stretchier than the latter with 4.6% and 3.1% elongation between 50/150 kg at the thickness of 10.5 mm). semi-static ropes make me wonder about hard catches as the rope gets older and more grabby, but i haven't used a static rope in fifteen years, the new stuff would surely be better than what it used to be. i'm 65 kilos the aim of course is making the goblin grab as quickly as possible while still moving freely when climbing.
I am sorry to say I have little experience. The only semi static rope I did some climbing with are the 9mm tendon type B and the 9.5mm Maxim KM-III. With the Goblin, I used some dynamic ropes from 9.5 to 9.9mm for Lead Rope Solo. Both of the options you mentions should be good. Please let us know what you ended up buying and if you liked it!! I personally prefer a « lighter » 9.5mm rope with the micro traxion as a backup because the rope is much lighter than a 10.5mm. Makes sense? Do you already own the Goblin?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing my goblin is still in vienna austria, a friend of mine is getting it for me in a few days. i think i might hold off buying rope, ask my caving friends if i could test falling on theirs (likely thick semi-static ropes), and my brother to try falling on his (9.5mm dynamic simond branded) and decide from there. i'll write what happened in your comment section. thanks for all the testing you do.
Hi Yann, nice video. And, thanks, because making things visible, makes questions, comments and learning possible! In my looking into the Goblin uses, there are still some risks to realize.Like most rope game the are one directional, and head first fall do occur. I could not find any test for not intend use as in solo climbing for upside down falls in industry fall arrestors. That would be very interesting! In the "open mode" the goblin depends on a very light spring to assure some rope friction, (therefor a thicker rope results in more friction and faster grabbing) in combination with a lever movement to pinch the rope when weight is put on the lever. When lifted there is an open channel and both ways! The device is sliding free on the rope. When lifting force is removed, but the lever is not yet weighted yet the device is in freefall with whatever is connected to it or visa versa. Friction build up moves the lever or trying to fall faster then the Goblin will put weight on the lever and the goblin grabs. Theoretical there is a possibility to take a drop. In my not very official and simple testing the most was a 1.70 meters, a distance I would not like to faal on rock and free falling for sure not on static rope which put a to large fall factor on the anchor. The advised steel carabiner is partly to cheaply comply to the minimal 27kN of NFPA212 US standard. But I found that with 162, grams vs 62 grams of an aluminium carabiner it is for sure aiding in a somewhat faster lever action and rope grab. This differs from an average of 25-40 cm to 35-75 cm free drop before the goblin grabs on a 70-80 degree angele rope. In my opinion more tests specially for solo climbing and the movements of rope and goblin are needed to call this thing safe.
Thanks for the encouragements! More tests are needed for sure. Anyway, it is a good habit to have a backup system of some kind. Never rely on a single tool!
How do you feel about using only this device and tying knots as a backup ? (Preferably a thick dynamic rope for softer catch in the event of goblin failure)
Thanks for the video Yann - very useful. You have mentioned people are using Goblin with the dynamic ropes. Do you know if it will work with Mamut Serenity triple rated dynamic rope 8.7 and also with BD dry 9.4?
I have more information on rope size in my course for this setup with what I tried and what other people have tried. There is never a guaranty that anything will work because it has not been fully tested with dynamic ropes in that range of diameters. The 8.7mm would be uncharted territories. Never seen any of that diameter ever tested. A 9.4mm is thin but should be ok. You have to test it yourself and chose for your own really!
What do you think about this setup: Taz Lov (new 2 if I can find it, otherwise 3) as main device Camp goblin as backup two strands My guess is that it should allow me to rappell without disengaging the backup, as the Goblin allows for downclimbing (and therefore also rappelling using the taz lov2/3). What do you think?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing price doesn't really matter (at least as long as it's not more than 400$...) I am leaning towards using your lov+microtrax setup as I have completed your course now (lov3 on the way, haven't ordered anything else). The only thing that still feels kind of funky is repelling without a backup engaged (as you need to disengage the microtrax?). Maybe I could just bring a prusik (or maybe even a Shunt?) and attach that below the Taz lov3 when repelling? I don't want to make my system needlessly complicated, so I'll probably not use my dual rope and camp goblin idea, but yeah...
Hi@@nissengummihone ! Awesome! can you contact me on Facebook messenger? Or by email through my contact page on blissclimbing.com . I always answer all the questions my clients have! Thoroughly ;-)
Hello, thanks for sharing. Any reason why you did not use the harness loop for clipping the goblin in ? This way the catches would be very much more static. Cheers!
Having this type of device between your legs can be a major hazard. Squeeze it between your thighs, fall, and it will slip to the backup knot. Most devices that have no teeth will fail in that way. I can think of the Microcender, uAscend, Lift, Goblin, LOV2, Cinch, Ushba, Shunt, Rescucender, and maybe the grigri and the like. This situation is even more likely on overhangs and roofs! I realize I have to make a video to show that failure mode! Thanks for the comment! Makes sense?
@@pawelbialek8056 Sorry I answered the wrong thing maybe. So I tried to attach the Goblin directly to the chest rig BUT this changes how the Goblin works a lot: no more nice up and down climbing so easily. So if I did that it was potentially more dangerous because the device is clearly not designed for such a use (It would have to be tested). Also it was not as pleasant because I want to be able to down-climb! Does that answer your question?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Hmm, I haven't tried this myself, so it might be that you had to deal with problems I am not aware of and that's why the setup. I am talking about this part of the setup. imgur.com/yqB2Y64 Here, would it be possible to replace the D carabiner (with its piece of dyneema) with just just a piece of polyamide loop / reep attached to the harness loop ? To give a more dynamic fall catch. Of course the orientation of Goblin would have to be maintained.
Thanks for the video! I recently got Goblin and I've used for TRS as a back up for Grigri 1 (extended with doubled 60cm sling above the Grigri). The rope which I use is 9.5mm dynamic rope. With drop tests (me as being the test piece) with backup knots, the Goblin has always caught me first. Have you insight about lead rope soloing with Goblin + Grigri?
I have never tried to lead rope solo with a grigri and a Goblin (neither top rope solo for that matter). Using a grigri along with a goblin sounds like a challenging proposal. I don’t think they are good options. It might be difficult to have a system that lets you climb efficiently... Your mileage may vary obviously! I have yet much to learn :-)
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I found it to be quit good setup for TRS if you just coil the extra rope to hang in the air, then you just pull the slack between through the Goblin and the weight of rope will feed it "automatically" through the Grigri. I will try LRS with this setup as soon as I hit the crag again, I can let you know my findings if you are interested.
Are you on Facebook? Maybe you could post pictures of your setup on the Top Rope Solo Climbing group so I get a good look!! Or contact me via blissclimbing.com so we can email each other :-) Thanks so much!!!
All I use is a chest harness similar setup to what is seen here, a croll with locker to chest, and a quick draw with two lockers attached to belay loop and bottom of croll. As a back up device I don't use a gri gri instead a alpine mammot smart 2.0 autolock. Seems to work well and you're able to back out of the chest harness as long as you use a prussik to unweigh the rope to come off of the chest harness onto the auto lock device.
Thanks for the comment. Note that the Croll is a bad design for tope rope solo and should not used in that configuration in my opinion and in Petzl's opinion. (new basic is similar to croll: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Appendix-1--Petzl-does-not-recommend-using-only-one-ascender-for-self-belaying-?ActivityName=multi-pitch-climbing) Look at Petzl 10 web pages on the subject and try to not re-invent the wheel: the risks are very real! Then I do not know the alpine mammot smart 2.0 autolock so it might be safer than I think! Good luck!
Hello Yann, I think putting microtraxion below the goblin might be dangeous. Here is a video of the goblin slipping 1.6meters ua-cam.com/video/6H-p19n2FQ4/v-deo.html It makes for a soft catch, but do you think this could cause the traxion below to drag along the rope as well? If the traxion slips it will surely shred the rope.
The risk that it shreads the rope because of this is very low in my opinion. Goblin is not my favorite for TRS because it is heavy and expensive. But if you own it: use it! Find all in my online course.
What do you mean by "hard pass"? I have at least 30 devices. Every time you look at a new device on the internet, if you are like me, you see full of promises. Then you buy it, experiment it and often you don't use it ever because what you had is actually better. It takes so much time and effort getting your setups right... That is the reason I encourage to buy my online course: to skip a lot of wasted time, effort and expenses. The online courses are here (for TRS and LRS: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) . Thanks for the comment!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing By ´´hard pass´´ I mean I would not want to purchase a device that requires a special carabiner to function best. I am always geeking around for new devices so thanks for the video!
@@ananda_miaoyin All devices need a carabiner to be used anyway... So why be bothered if it function best with its own carabiner? I can totally accept that in my climbing!! Same as for example top hole of Soloist is better filled with a locking oval: it just makes sense! Thanks for the comment!!
The device says its designed for 10-11mm static rope, so it probably wouldnt work on a 9.5mm dynamic line ? Just asking because my sport rope is 80m long wheras my bulkier static line is only 30-40meters
What do you want to use the Goblin for?
3:35 (recommended rope 10mm semi static)
do you have a rope preference with your devices? looking to buy a new rope, can't decide between the tendon secure and the camp iridium (the former stretchier than the latter with 4.6% and 3.1% elongation between 50/150 kg at the thickness of 10.5 mm). semi-static ropes make me wonder about hard catches as the rope gets older and more grabby, but i haven't used a static rope in fifteen years, the new stuff would surely be better than what it used to be. i'm 65 kilos the aim of course is making the goblin grab as quickly as possible while still moving freely when climbing.
I am sorry to say I have little experience. The only semi static rope I did some climbing with are the 9mm tendon type B and the 9.5mm Maxim KM-III. With the Goblin, I used some dynamic ropes from 9.5 to 9.9mm for Lead Rope Solo. Both of the options you mentions should be good. Please let us know what you ended up buying and if you liked it!! I personally prefer a « lighter » 9.5mm rope with the micro traxion as a backup because the rope is much lighter than a 10.5mm. Makes sense? Do you already own the Goblin?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing my goblin is still in vienna austria, a friend of mine is getting it for me in a few days. i think i might hold off buying rope, ask my caving friends if i could test falling on theirs (likely thick semi-static ropes), and my brother to try falling on his (9.5mm dynamic simond branded) and decide from there. i'll write what happened in your comment section. thanks for all the testing you do.
Hi Yann, nice video. And, thanks, because making things visible, makes questions, comments and learning possible! In my looking into the Goblin uses, there are still some risks to realize.Like most rope game the are one directional, and head first fall do occur. I could not find any test for not intend use as in solo climbing for upside down falls in industry fall arrestors. That would be very interesting! In the "open mode" the goblin depends on a very light spring to assure some rope friction, (therefor a thicker rope results in more friction and faster grabbing) in combination with a lever movement to pinch the rope when weight is put on the lever. When lifted there is an open channel and both ways! The device is sliding free on the rope. When lifting force is removed, but the lever is not yet weighted yet the device is in freefall with whatever is connected to it or visa versa. Friction build up moves the lever or trying to fall faster then the Goblin will put weight on the lever and the goblin grabs. Theoretical there is a possibility to take a drop. In my not very official and simple testing the most was a 1.70 meters, a distance I would not like to faal on rock and free falling for sure not on static rope which put a to large fall factor on the anchor. The advised steel carabiner is partly to cheaply comply to the minimal 27kN of NFPA212 US standard. But I found that with 162, grams vs 62 grams of an aluminium carabiner it is for sure aiding in a somewhat faster lever action and rope grab. This differs from an average of 25-40 cm to 35-75 cm free drop before the goblin grabs on a 70-80 degree angele rope. In my opinion more tests specially for solo climbing and the movements of rope and goblin are needed to call this thing safe.
Thanks for the encouragements! More tests are needed for sure. Anyway, it is a good habit to have a backup system of some kind. Never rely on a single tool!
How do you feel about using only this device and tying knots as a backup ?
(Preferably a thick dynamic rope for softer catch in the event of goblin failure)
I highly recommend a backup device AND backup knot. Some people survive having a single device but some get injured. Not fun!
Thanks for the video Yann - very useful. You have mentioned people are using Goblin with the dynamic ropes. Do you know if it will work with Mamut Serenity triple rated dynamic rope 8.7 and also with BD dry 9.4?
I have more information on rope size in my course for this setup with what I tried and what other people have tried. There is never a guaranty that anything will work because it has not been fully tested with dynamic ropes in that range of diameters. The 8.7mm would be uncharted territories. Never seen any of that diameter ever tested. A 9.4mm is thin but should be ok. You have to test it yourself and chose for your own really!
probably want to go above 9.5mm rope just to be safe
What do you think about this setup:
Taz Lov (new 2 if I can find it, otherwise 3) as main device
Camp goblin as backup
two strands
My guess is that it should allow me to rappell without disengaging the backup, as the Goblin allows for downclimbing (and therefore also rappelling using the taz lov2/3). What do you think?
Heavy and expensive. I like less gear and more climbing! What rope? Maybe the Petzl ASAP if you go that price? Same weight…
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing price doesn't really matter (at least as long as it's not more than 400$...)
I am leaning towards using your lov+microtrax setup as I have completed your course now (lov3 on the way, haven't ordered anything else). The only thing that still feels kind of funky is repelling without a backup engaged (as you need to disengage the microtrax?). Maybe I could just bring a prusik (or maybe even a Shunt?) and attach that below the Taz lov3 when repelling? I don't want to make my system needlessly complicated, so I'll probably not use my dual rope and camp goblin idea, but yeah...
Hi@@nissengummihone ! Awesome! can you contact me on Facebook messenger? Or by email through my contact page on blissclimbing.com . I always answer all the questions my clients have! Thoroughly ;-)
Hello, thanks for sharing. Any reason why you did not use the harness loop for clipping the goblin in ? This way the catches would be very much more static.
Cheers!
Having this type of device between your legs can be a major hazard. Squeeze it between your thighs, fall, and it will slip to the backup knot. Most devices that have no teeth will fail in that way. I can think of the Microcender, uAscend, Lift, Goblin, LOV2, Cinch, Ushba, Shunt, Rescucender, and maybe the grigri and the like. This situation is even more likely on overhangs and roofs! I realize I have to make a video to show that failure mode! Thanks for the comment! Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing you could adjust that slack with the necklace band.
Or you couldn't?
@@pawelbialek8056 Sorry I answered the wrong thing maybe. So I tried to attach the Goblin directly to the chest rig BUT this changes how the Goblin works a lot: no more nice up and down climbing so easily. So if I did that it was potentially more dangerous because the device is clearly not designed for such a use (It would have to be tested). Also it was not as pleasant because I want to be able to down-climb! Does that answer your question?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Hmm, I haven't tried this myself, so it might be that you had to deal with problems I am not aware of and that's why the setup.
I am talking about this part of the setup.
imgur.com/yqB2Y64
Here, would it be possible to replace the D carabiner (with its piece of dyneema) with just just a piece of polyamide loop / reep attached to the harness loop ? To give a more dynamic fall catch.
Of course the orientation of Goblin would have to be maintained.
Thanks for the video! I recently got Goblin and I've used for TRS as a back up for Grigri 1 (extended with doubled 60cm sling above the Grigri). The rope which I use is 9.5mm dynamic rope. With drop tests (me as being the test piece) with backup knots, the Goblin has always caught me first. Have you insight about lead rope soloing with Goblin + Grigri?
I have never tried to lead rope solo with a grigri and a Goblin (neither top rope solo for that matter). Using a grigri along with a goblin sounds like a challenging proposal. I don’t think they are good options. It might be difficult to have a system that lets you climb efficiently... Your mileage may vary obviously! I have yet much to learn :-)
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I found it to be quit good setup for TRS if you just coil the extra rope to hang in the air, then you just pull the slack between through the Goblin and the weight of rope will feed it "automatically" through the Grigri. I will try LRS with this setup as soon as I hit the crag again, I can let you know my findings if you are interested.
Are you on Facebook? Maybe you could post pictures of your setup on the Top Rope Solo Climbing group so I get a good look!! Or contact me via blissclimbing.com so we can email each other :-) Thanks so much!!!
All I use is a chest harness similar setup to what is seen here, a croll with locker to chest, and a quick draw with two lockers attached to belay loop and bottom of croll. As a back up device I don't use a gri gri instead a alpine mammot smart 2.0 autolock. Seems to work well and you're able to back out of the chest harness as long as you use a prussik to unweigh the rope to come off of the chest harness onto the auto lock device.
Thanks for the comment. Note that the Croll is a bad design for tope rope solo and should not used in that configuration in my opinion and in Petzl's opinion. (new basic is similar to croll: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Appendix-1--Petzl-does-not-recommend-using-only-one-ascender-for-self-belaying-?ActivityName=multi-pitch-climbing) Look at Petzl 10 web pages on the subject and try to not re-invent the wheel: the risks are very real! Then I do not know the alpine mammot smart 2.0 autolock so it might be safer than I think! Good luck!
Thanks
@@paulmorrey4298 you are welcome! Thanks for the comment!!
Hello Yann, I think putting microtraxion below the goblin might be dangeous. Here is a video of the goblin slipping 1.6meters ua-cam.com/video/6H-p19n2FQ4/v-deo.html
It makes for a soft catch, but do you think this could cause the traxion below to drag along the rope as well? If the traxion slips it will surely shred the rope.
The risk that it shreads the rope because of this is very low in my opinion. Goblin is not my favorite for TRS because it is heavy and expensive. But if you own it: use it! Find all in my online course.
I have been checking this thing out. Looks like it has some cool features, BUT....
a special carabiner??
Hard pass.
What do you mean by "hard pass"? I have at least 30 devices. Every time you look at a new device on the internet, if you are like me, you see full of promises. Then you buy it, experiment it and often you don't use it ever because what you had is actually better. It takes so much time and effort getting your setups right... That is the reason I encourage to buy my online course: to skip a lot of wasted time, effort and expenses. The online courses are here (for TRS and LRS: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) . Thanks for the comment!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing By ´´hard pass´´ I mean I would not want to purchase a device that requires a special carabiner to function best. I am always geeking around for new devices so thanks for the video!
@@ananda_miaoyin All devices need a carabiner to be used anyway... So why be bothered if it function best with its own carabiner? I can totally accept that in my climbing!! Same as for example top hole of Soloist is better filled with a locking oval: it just makes sense! Thanks for the comment!!