Thames Water cause the issue I and dont think their have a leg to stand on. All building work should have building regs I think he should see his MP as well. Bad work like this could cause flooring.
@@jsl4228 The cost to take the Water Authority to court will be astronomical they are also a seperate body that will be capable of creating there own rules.The legal rules are not as clear cut as you would think. This case and my own case should never go to Court and a precourt settlement made but the water Authorities are a law unto themselves and well knowagable at bullying.Due to there fantastic turn overs.
@@timarcher7933 Thanks for that. I'll forget about the past decade or more I've spent litigating these things and listen to some moron on the internet.
If building regs don't apply where are we going with this ? As another comment states, measure it with a level (laser or Dumpy). Drains must have a self cleansing velocity, and a good guide is Maguires Rule. In my day 40 years ago we had building inspectors who often required air tests and mechanical/hydraulic tests. I was recently on a £25 million private house build where the drainage looked like a ride at Thorpe Park, and not one manhole lid was level. This is a disgusting example of unregulated work and a disingenuous slimy pack of lies from the company. I would shovel it out every two weeks and post the contents to the manager. A career in politics awaits him. I think more of this type of exposure is required. Thank you for putting it in the public domain. This gentleman's home is now blighted and he needs legal representation.
A lawyer friend of mine just watched this, His answer is " You have a big case to take this further" Thames water have Literally devalued this guys house! Now that is grounds for a real and detailed "WORKS" correction , ( After all, we are all paying Our regional water companies monthly/yearly)
I inherited a problem with my grandparents drains that they'd been having for over 10yrs! Every 3 months the drains would block up and they would pay a private company to clear the drains out £50 a pop, multiple people down the road including my grandfather said it was never the same when the main sewer line was replaced over 10yrs ago. Fast forward to 2014 when I take over the property and start experiencing the problems pay a couple of times until I ring up Anglian Water and demand they come out and have a look. Anglian Water come out try jetting it but no luck I explained I could get 15m of rod down which was way past my property so its no longer my issue. They asked what I want to do I said, right tomorrow I want a tanker and someone with CCTV, use the tanker to suck out and CCTV to inspect the pipe, the next day they turned up and did exactly what i asked, when it came to the inspection they said the blockage is at 5m (1m before its their responsibility) and I would have to replace the pipe. Well they got a bit of a shock that weekend I hired a mini digger and set to work. Dug a tree up what was in the way and dug all the old clay pipe up and replaced with plastic until I got right to the road, I put in a tee and fed a pipe up to ground level popped an rodding eye fitting on. I put some water into the tee and observed that it didn't flow away - Excellent. Put everything back together and called Anglian Water they turned up shocked to see i'd replaced the pipe and it hadn't fixed the issue, at this point it had started backing up so out came the tanker and down went the CCTV only to find the metal pipe was just completely rusted up and needed replacement, there was just enough of a hole for a rod to fit through but not a jet. 4 weeks later some contractors turned up they didnt dig up the road but instead they've sleeved it since then its been fine but look at all the extra work I had to do just to prove it wasn't our fault! while I was digging so many neighbours walking by said their 2 pence many with similar issues, battling with Anglian Water for years. That rodding eye is right at the end of my responsibility so if it ever blocks in future I can make sure that bits clear then call Anglian Water and they will have no choice but to sort it. They orginally tried fobbing me off with the 3 monthly jetting and tanker for life and I just couldn't accept that as an answer.
Well done you mate. All power to your elbow. Ever thought of running for PM. You and that digger could uproot a lot of blocked up politicians 😄 Seriously though, not many people have the ability to do what you did. And we shouldn't need to. I have noticed as the years have gone by that politicians are gradually undermining the functionality of our society; creating a 'sloping shoulders' mentality in service providers which means that one after the other they try to shed responsibility for solving our problems. There's a lot to be said for just forgetting it and living life. I bet you struggle with that idea; so do i and so do many others - but not enough to make the country function better for all. Great Britain... Hmmm, from the outside, maybe, but live here and I'm not so sure. Hope the drains are still flowing... ! 🤔👍
Thames Water are a law upon themselves, my mother had terrible trouble with them earlier this year . They tell you what you want to hear and then do what they want and then feed you with a load of BS !!!! They are getting to big for their boots and need bringing down a peg or two. Well done Roger fantastic work as always
Thanks for that. My son's neighbour is doing an extension. The sewer is shared. Because it is not allowed to go under the new extension it has to re re-routed. This makes the part in the neighbours garden "public". We will be paying VERY close attention to the modifications. In fairness to the neighbour, extensive drawings (with falls etc) have been provided but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, workmanship is all! Not Thames Water but Southern Water.
Wow... thought this nonsense only occurred in the US. Nice to know we're all swimming upstream in sewage. Also, nice to know that there are experts from SkillBuilder to assist.
Good of you to do a video about this Roger. I think all water companies are the same, their definition if something is either a repair or am improvement is down to them, and I'm guessing they'll go for the cheapest option every time. Also, not bound by building regs - so what regs do they go by, made up ones that they control? This animosity is brought to you by loads of experience with water companies. 🙄
I'd send Thames Water all his poops in a box with a note to forward them on to the next part of their sewage system as the pipes at his property don't work properly.
All the Dno’s are the same. Fing nightmare. Working on a fire damaged property where the electric and gas are off supply. Spent many hours on the phone and finally today there is a live electric cut out in the building at a cost of about 3k. Been trying eon to get the meter fitted but it’s either permanently engaged or if you do get to speak to a human being they ‘accidentally ‘ cut you off. Not just me the property landlord and his son are on the phone to them all the time as well. Not even tried with the gas yet but the water is on. Excellent videos thanks and merry Christmas.
Thames Water is fortunate that 169,000 subscribers haven't yet decided to telephone that Freephone number he so helpfully provided. What a disaster that would be.
7:05 They're already building the groundwork to renege on their three-monthly jetting of the pipes. You can guarantee it'll be down to six-monthly, then yearly, just as soon as they think they can get away with it.
Thames water spend more time and money avoiding fixing the problem than it would cost to fix. What is wrong with these people? Do they enjoy messing people around or are they just congenitally thick? Take it to the next level.
Sounds like a beast of a job. I’m pretty sure if a sewer on your property is your own problem unless it’s a shared sewer then it’s the responsibility of the water company.
I would ask who was the contractor used by the water company. Their “repair” seems to have caused new a problem. I would go directly to a solicitor. Just because it is a utility company, the laws remain the same.
we have the same problem with severn trent WA they don"t want to fix our problem but are happy to send out the jetting team when we telephone them to say the sewer is backing up. They sent the camera team who said the plpe is broken they said they whould report this but nothing has been done. As you said to fix a broken pipe must be more cost effective than to send the jetting team out many times when there is a blockage!
If it needs to be jet cleared every three months and it didn’t need this previously then quite clearly it is not working as it should. Also in the summer and if children are in the garden and possibly eating etc then this is a health risk. Needs sorting properly.
I used to work in the drainage industry. Unfortunately, manholes "holding sewage" is something we saw from time to time. Typically, the homeowner had lived at the property for many years, in some cases decades, without any issues. We would tell them of this when conducting CCTV surveys on the drains for prospective purchasers. This would come as a big surprise to them, as you can imagine. I absolutely sympathise with the homeowner in this video but if I can offer any comfort it is this. From my years of experience it is extremely unlikely that you will ever experience an "operational" issue. Just don't put any wipes (flushable or otherwise), fat, oil etc down the tubes. Of course, legal action is an option. The problem is the cost and the time it could take. Wishing you well.
A pipe connected only to one dwelling is legally a private drain and is the sole responsibility of the property owner. A pipe serving two or more properties is a sewer. If it is adopted by the drainage company it is a public sewer if it is not then it is a private sewer the responsibility of those that benefit from it. If Thames have carried out work to a public sewer which has then caused an issue with a private drain then they are negligent in tort and if damage or loss is incurred then the home owner can claim through the courts ....
Good response but Thames are saying there hasn't been damage or loss and the situation is normal. Just saying it might be hard to prove damage if all you have is some 'water' in the drain. Not taking sides on this but just reflecting on what Thames are saying.
So, what you’re saying here Rodger is Thames Water came along, demolished the neighbours wall, threw his slabs in a skip, dug the garden up twice and had two goes at laying a sewer pipe which they got wrong on both occasions? The victorian sewer builders would be laughing like a drain at them.
I have a joint sewer and am at the end of the line. If there is a blockage, which has happened several times, I have to pay to have it cleared and then request the other parties contribute towards the cost. So far all the costs have been met by myself.
The government ordered water companies to take over “laterals” by legislation in 2011. Thereby drains in common ceased to be shared.Pictures under images on internet.Water companies sent out notices to this effect. Ask them for a copy. Also you can buy plans of your area sewers from the company. Ccounty record. Offices hold historic records when the company say they have not go a copy 19th century sewers. I have records of the famous Joseph Bazelgette visiting Hastings as a consultant See the Great Stink that closed Parliament.1840,s
The bit between your house the boundary is your drain. When it joins the neighbours it becomes a shared sewer. It depends where the blockage is. If their drains are running free then it is your blockage that has caused it. Have you asked the water company to unblock it?
•At the very beginning you say the basement flooded. •Many London homes have converted their basements. These are below sewer level and traditionally where not intended as permanent habitable spaces. •Thames Water adopted the sewers in Oct 2011. Any basement conversion or building work could have altered the Victorian in the hundred or so years between installation and 2011. So I hypothesise that the sewer has been altered due to building work by a neighbour, previous homeowner or current homeowner. As the Thames Water Statements says the issue is on a privately owned manhole, then go ahead and do the work necessary to fix the issue. If I were the homeowner I’d also go ahead and check planning permissions for the neighbours to see if you can locate when the problems may have been caused.
So after read most comments it seem clear that all he has to do is raise he's manhole, problem solved, for him, but then bit of a bummer for for house next door, but this seems like how the water board think.
It would have been good to get some more technical info on this. You've got a laser Roger, how about measuring the invert at both manholes to start with? The furthest manhole is new and may have been put in lower than the drain was originally although as you say it is close to the boundary and can't have changed much but really anything could have happened when that manhole went in... you know what some builders are like :-)
I was thinking of pursuing this and checking the inverts etc but I think if it was clearing his chamber before the work (no proof now) and that chamber was connected to the clay drain with flexible couplings it is possible that when Thames Water joined to it they cut the pipes and in joining it raised it to get the collar on. There is no way of proving this and therein lies the problem. The fact that the threw the slabs in the skip and smashed down the wall and skipped the bricks rather than salvaging suggest they were not on top of their game.
@@SkillBuilder i agree the fact they knocked the wall down when they could of worked under it and throwing the old flags (unless they were cracked or ruined in taking up) speaks volumes, only thing to do is dig it all up again see where they went wrong and then work out best fix and relay, who is going to do it is a big issue, cant believe they havnt reinstated the wall though!
I agree measure the 2 inverts if there is a fall they are at fault. Done some really fleet drains when I have had no chose between 2 fixed points. But if I have had a fall you can make it work especially with plastic pipe.
@@davidcarey41 I agree David there is more to tell on this story and, if I thought I would be paid for my time I would be in there like a shot but when you are a sole trader you have to keep an eye on the bottom line. I want to help the householder out but I want Thames Water to do the heavy lifting as the American's would say.
I have a similar problem with the sewer pipe that goes into the street from the pit in the front of my garden wall. I believe it's called the lead pipe leed pipe ? Mine is broken and I was told by a friend who is good at researching these matters that it is Thames waters responsibility to fix it. Thames water have refused to repair it and instead they come round every few years and pump the pit out.
What you missed in this video roger is that simply setting up a laser level we could have checked the levels of the two chambers. Its my guess that there certainly is a back fall and looking at whats sitting in each end- the heights of the waste water would also prove that. The only fix is to raise everything up about 100mm, of course that also means the internal pipes coming from the house need raising and i can see 3 connections which means probably one pipe runs in under the house. My guess is that with the homes being victorian (you mentioned this period although the homes look newer to me) the foundations are above the invert level of the foul drain and this has likely caused a little settlement over 120yrs causing the pipework to be pushed lower an inch or two. Short of a macerator, which i would never advise especially for this, theres no other solution. I would temporarily advise the owner to have a bath at least once a week to give the drain the best chance of clearing the paper and turds that will accumulate with that large volume of water and flush midway through emptying the bath. Apologies for the long reply. Dan @ weston Groundworks
Totally understand your concern, but need to ask, "Who is this surveryor that lifts manhole covers for a house purchase, and what 'band' survey is it?"
Well said Sir, increasingly Surveyor's don't know a damned thing and are pomped up estate agents. Lifting a manhole lid would be beyond 90% of them. Most reports read " We couldn't access this at the time , so you'd be advised to get someone who knows what they are looking at to check it, and here is my ridiculous bill".
I here about Thames Water issues all the time; like most big companies they'll try every trick in the book to not do something. And you have to laugh at the spokesperson offering his number to help when he's already decided not to help.
Thames. Awful. I had a basement leak which they said was rain. Flooded continously for 11 months until I proved it was from their sewer. They thob you off and literally leave you in it. It was a burst pipe. I should have sued them rotten but could not bar the extra stress so accepted a little compensation for damage to my basement.
Can really empathise with your dilemma. Most people don't have the stamina for long, drawn-out confrontations. Neither do I. This is where our politicians should step in to help - except they have created this "beast of a service infrastructure" by a continued undermining of it's functionality as time goes by. I think the solution is to create a new political system. How long have you got... ??!!!! 🤔
Roger there is one aspect of this where you have got it a bit wrong I think. What Thames are saying is the drain on your friend's property is a private drain up until the manhole where it becomes a lateral drain. So in simple terms if the drain is blocked by next door they will come and resolve that section free of charge but you are still responsible for your drain until it leaves your boundary. I had this problem myself in York, the drain was totally blocked due to insufficient fall, YW came out and resolved it from next door. I looked into it all and found what they were saying is legally correct. It was only the lateral drains which were adopted. I understand this is an unlucky situation but the flush offer is most likely over and above their legal obligation. Like in York had the problem persisted we would have had to relay the drain to the boundary. So I think this is perfectly normal and the Thames response looks to have been good. And perhaps you will get some work out of it!
OK I understand your point. His manhole is right up against the boundary do there is 6 inches of pipe in a flexible coupling from that manhole to the shared section. They have relaid the section twice from the boundary so they must think it is their sewer. Nobody knows quite what went on when they did the work but it is conceivable that they lifted that first section of pipe out of his chamber when they put their coupler on. The problem is that it is a Thames Water sewer and if anyone else touches it they can then claim it was somebody else who created the problem.
Thames water are a huge bureaucracy, last year we had surface water drains overflowing in the rain, turned out you couldn't run a garden hose down next doors drain for more than a few minutes without it coming up in ours which was about 2 metres away. Simple youd have thought but every time they tried to say its either not an operational issue (apparently 4 inch drain cant take a domestic hose
In my area, anything on your property is down to you, they would never do anything with our drains unless it was on the main street. We have always had to pay to do any works to our drains.
If they don't have to follow any regs why didn't they just dig a big hole in the garden and throw the pipe into the middle, easy job and the customer gets a free pond.
More to the point if you read the letter. They have rebuilt the sewer to the spec it was built to. Not current regs. Which means they know exactly what they have done. Don't blame the builders they have just done what they were told
This is the result, as I see it, of a failed political system and a failed society. Our politicians have created a situation where service providers operate a 'sloping shoulders' mentality to avoid problems rather than solve them. In this instance, I would recommend drawing a cross-section of the drain layout with very accurately measured levels and including boundaries. This would make it easier for MPs and legal reps to understand precisely what the problem is. You have it in mind - others don't often have the aptitude to imagine something under ground. On the road where I live (outside my boundary) there is a gully with a collapsed sewer connection. No surface water goes down the gully and hasn't for decades with the result that the road floods big-time. I have engaged our MP; argued with Thames Water till I'm blue in the face; but they refuse to accept there is a problem. In a recent confrontation on Twitter, I was talking about "surface water and gullies and the collapsed sewer connection", when he suddenly began referring to their recent inspection of manhole covers not showing any problems. It left me non-plussed, thinking "Pardon? Where and when have we been discussing manhole covers?" Either the guy didn't know how gullies and sewers are connected, or he wasn't intelligent enough to comprehend a technical conversation, or he was being deliberately obtuse. And in view of the 'slopping shoulders' attitude I have been observing, I have to conclude the latter. So how the hell do we move forward with these issues... and with the overarching issue - the mall-functioning of our society ?? Sorry, but at this instant I don't have an answer ...
I do Thames water build over agreements as part of my job, its legalised extortion, 299 a pop for a peice of paper underwritten by someone who knows little to nothing about drains.
I have been sent a build-over agreement form or should I say book to fill in from Thames Water, for an extension we are having built. It is asking me where the sewer pipe is, what depth it is at and what diameter the pipe is, they then want £300 odd for the privilege. How the hell am I supposed to know these things? I’m not a drainage expert or have survey equipment, what the hell am I having to pay for? It’s their sewer aren’t they supposed to know and tell me? Not the other way round.
@@michaelt2987 it is scandalous, its relatively easy to work out your drainage system by lifting man hole covers, flushing loos etc but to be honest I could send them a totally fabricated drawing and they would pass it as long as the fee was paid.............there was nothing wrong with the building inspector agreeing and passing a proposed method of building over a sewer pipe, concrete lintel and clearance are more than enough to ensure the drain is undisturbed............I've just started building regs drawings on a project that took 18 months and 3ks worth of bat surveys to gain planning permission and there is a forest across the road......this assorted nonsense will price us all out of a job in the end!
Ive got a section 24 sewer as owned and maintained by Severn Trent Water Ltd ive spoken to Roger before over it. There have been problems with this sewer for over 50 years with previous owners including rodent issues. Severn Trent Water Ltd refuse to admit hydraulic lift problems due to sink holes and build up of fine debri. As the nieghbour a rental house owned by a building surveyour has sewer blockage problems on his private sewer i have to sign a disclaimer for Severn Trent Water Ltd to extract the blockage via my home with in their words danger the extraction process could burst and spread swage over my kitchen and house. They have previously jet washed from an inspection chamber in the road which is so deeo they have to winch operates in due to methane collection. The nieghbour has a rodding eye to the sewer which he was totaly unaware of thats after he paid for extensive renovations. Severn Trent Water Ltd refuse to use the rodding eye or the inspection chamber in the road for jet washing. Previously in taking Severn Trent Water Ltd to court over cellar flooding 30 years ago they eventualy argued Legal Technicality to foce any case costs through the roof even where they had no defence. I am now told by the Severn Trent Water Ltd site agent the problem of flooding of my cellar is totaly down to me and my private sewer connection and nothing to do with hydraulic lift. 30 years ago the case was set at over £1million. Oh rodents dont live in sewers which is the official line. This section 24 sewer was described by the head of the Enivromental Health Department Warwick District Council 30 years ago when they where agents of Severn Trent Water Ltd as a figment of my imagination. Still waiting for none exsistant justice.
Tough one that . When was the house and sewers built , how has recent developments affected ground waters and foundations etc . But at the end of the day we all have to pay for sewers ,no choice so it should work .
I understand both sides sometimes you just can’t get the slope you need it sucks but sometimes the main in the street is to high it has happened to me I have had to do a lot of sewers level because the man on the street is higher than when it comes out of the house and sometimes it here in Wyoming you can not go to shallow cause it will freeze no matter what you do it sometimes cost more to try to dig up the city main in the street and try to make it work with all the houses sometimes it cost more then all the houses combined.
Thames Water sent me a high bill which triggered me to get them out to investigate a leak. They dug the public pathway as this was where my meter was located ( yes my meter is not on my property boundary as with all the other homes in the area). The leak was repaired and new slabs were put in as the existing were dug and replaced. A week later another team came and dug the new paving, fixed leak (again) and more new paving put down. 2 weeks later another team knocked on my door and said they were here to fix the leak (Third time!). New paving was dug up and leak was fix for the third time, new slabs were laid and barriers taken away. I'm still in the process of getting the right bill as they need to make readings 20 days apart and was told they'll be calling me for readings.... that was 4 months ago..... If only we could change suppliers in London!!
Everyone always overlooks the drainage when buying a house, it’s not included to have the drainage looked unless you get a home buyers survey on the drainage which is extra, you’ll be surprised how many people have bought a house and not been told about drainage issues, seen some terrible stuff, is that drain the end of the line? I’m sure if it is they are responsible to the boundary also they best check the deeds which should have info on the drainage
Need to chase them up about mine. They block every now and then, had them out a few weeks ago and the final clay U bend looks broken. They jetted and also took photos but not heard anything yet. Something to chase up in the new year.
We have shared drain (which one access is on our driveway, where the problem is). It continually gets blocked, not because of bad angles, but because there are TWO main exit pipes, one above and one below and the bottom pipe keeps getting blocked because it is bricked off but has a 'trap' like gap which is way too small to caiter for two households and as the bottom pipe gets blocked it builds up too much debris for the top pipe to handle and then that also gets blocked. The dynorod guys said that it needs to be broken and widened BUT, the system even though is on our property belongs to Thames water and we are not allowed by law to touch the pipework in any way shape or form and yet Thames water will not come out to fix it as it meets regulations. (My feeling is that one day i am going to take a club hammer to the end brickwork and knock it through to the main sewer pipe as it is frustrating that we can't do ANYTHING about it yet there is a CLEAR problem.)
I have the same problem with being the head of a shared drain meaning the water companies and council have devolved all responsibility onto me. Luckily it seems to be in OK condition but I think it's outrageous that the whole line can be affected but if it affects me they won't do a damn thing about it. They should be responsible for the whole line, end of.
From what I understood from the Thames Water email, the home owner does not have any sewer running into his property, as Thames Water calls this a private asset. If this is the case, they do not have any responsibility nor liability for it - the home owner does until it crosses the boundary, i.e. that 6 inches of pipe is the home owner's responsibility. Thames Water is only responsible if it is a public sewer, that is, a sewer that is laid through a property from one neighbouring property to another neighbouring property. The home owner is responsible for their private sewer and should raise their private sewer so it has a 1:40 fall into the public sewer next door.
Not that the homeowner should have to; but in the interest of having enough weight behind your argument to get it resolved I would consider having a CCTV survey conducted as conditional survey of the runs (do this prior to them coming to jet out so you can show in the CCTV footage the pipes are full/not draining down), a GPS level survey of the invert and cover levels back to datum (so you can demonstrate unequivocally that the new runs have been laid to insufficient falls) then appoint an approved inspector to write you a report on how it does not comply with the building regulations and then ship that all off to the solicitor for them to make representation on your behalf to try and resolve it without the need for the courts etc but letting them know this will all be culminating in small claims court.
It’s a disgrace. Outrageous. This is what you get with privatisation of a monopoly utility like this. They don’t care about you. They are not interested in doing a good solid proper job. You are a captive customer with no choice to go elsewhere , so they treat you with disdain and contempt. There’s no profit in good customer care. 😢😢😢. Thanks Thatcher. Thanks Tories…….keep pumping that sewage into the rivers…..😮😮
They are responsible under6 section 94 of the wiat to maintain cleanse and keep flowing.. if its not flowing its in contravention of the statute!. Any alteration to sewers must also comply with the building regs.. contact local council if installation does not flow continiously
Is the pipe that has not been renewed pitch fibre🤔 if it is it may have de lamination and as it’s only shallow you may as well get building insurance to sort it out or just pay to have it replaced through to new pipework. Would like to see a cctv drain survey going upstream from chamber by garage to confirm though. If your client needs a survey I would recommend Burch drainage services. I live in Margate or I would do it👍
Thames Water mentioned a couple of times that their work is not subject to building regulations, has that been independently verified? Their work must be bound by some form of regulation, so the question becomes what regulations are they bound by, and have they honestly met them? The fact that they consider regular inspection and jetting is a better financial option than correcting the issue they have created, makes me think there is something at play that they are hoping the home owner does not discover. The cost of their solution is going to be huge, so what cost are they trying to avoid?? It must be massive.
@@mward5296 That covers safety during the work, but surely there must be regulations that control the work quality and physical systems they are putting in place. The level of bureaucracy in this country surely cannot disappear when sewers are involved. I mean if every road marking is specified to the mm, with regulations on when they may be used on given roads, surely there are regulations on sewer piping, specification of materials, instalment requirements, and acceptable operation levels.
Disgraceful. If this situation had been the result of a builder's efforts, building control would have rejected the work outright. Double standard Britain, once again.
I know were talking about drains and sewers,but who is rebuilding the wall? It's going to cost a few Bob seeing they thrown the bricks away, they won't match only if they get reclaimed bricks and they won't be cheap.
The fact that they have "agreed to jet" the section isn't very reassuring, because if the rights to the area get sold on, or thames water cease to exist, that agreement will be gone. Leaving the property owner having to go through the hassle and cost of doing this. It would also remove the opportunity to make them take financial responsibility for any repair that needs doing if they are found to have created the problem.
His only options is to raise his sewer levels but will this impact elsewhere . or is it possible run his own new sewers to the street bypassing the new repair work . it will mean digging up alongside the existing new repair
Ultimately it is the contractor they employed to do the work that is at fault. Roger's friend and his neighbour should obtain the address of the contractor and jointly sue the contractor and Thames Water for the issue of the sudden lack of fall following the work AND the damage done to the fencing, flagstones and wall. If these 2 householders are properly insured, they might find their house insurance covers them for legal costs in the case of defective workmanship that impacts upon the 'amenity' of both houses, so it should cost them very little and any excess will be recoverable on their behalf by the insurers.
I had a similar issue with United utilitys - we discovered a sewer that passed through my back garden while digging for an extension, we discovered the original 1950s builders had run a land drain from under the adjacent property in to the sewer which was poorly pieced together the connection method was they chipped a section of the clay collar off and butted it up united utility’s agreed to fix that with a small section of pipe 600mm and cut off the “land drain” as requested by the building control, but we also found that the sewer was damaged near our lateral connection and had concrete round it after however united utility’s would not repair as they said it was our connection - so we chipped back the concrete to find there was a missing collar on the pipe wrapped with plastic and covered with concrete but this was actually behind our connection . We ended up doing the repair ourselves as we gave up on United utility’s as we didn’t want to spend months arguing the toss also we had a deep trench open and waiting to pour concrete .
These big company’s are all the same. We had a problem with phone lines, all the lines are owned by bt and open reach. Over a month we had nothing and we was lied to at least ten times saying they will be out to sort and they didn’t. If these company’s can’t do the work and do it properly they need to sub it out to small guys that will want the work.
So many things to add. Did you vote torie, then you're a volunteer. Surveyors never remove covers so don't rely on that. Sell essential assets to shareholder driven companies and what do you expect?
When M Thatcher privatised water and included drains in the deal the rule was pipes and drains under grassed areas are the landlords resposibility. On the Estates under my wing in London were built in the sixties with loads of grassed areas. Guess where most of the pipes & sewers were laid. Every time Thames Water were contacted the reply would be sorry mate not ours its yours even when there was no doubt it was not. When the Estates were built no one thought that Local authorites would be privatised as well. Kitchens and Bathrooms were designed at the rear of dwellings. Then a right to buy came in. Siblings clubbed together and bought their parents home and about 10 years later because London water pipes were in so bad a condition these pensioners ended up with huge bills and having to take out mortgages. I could go on.
Looking at the manhole at 4:00 from what you have said I assume the water flows from left to right as we look at it. If so then the channel bend is falling backwards (looking at the water in it) so the manhole and the original pipes joined to it have sunk. I bet if you put a staff on the darker bit of channel on the RHS and in the bottom of Robs manhole they would be more or less level so originally the weight of Robs water would have pushed it through. You could argue that Thames are responsible for fixing this manhole and raising the channel properly but it is not their fault that Robs drains are too low. There are some comments about building over the drains? If he is having an extension or something he will have to raise his drains. From what I can see Thames are more or less in the right.
Stephen The manhole on the corner belongs to Thames Water. There is, as you say, a backfall. The section back to Rob's manhole collapsed and that was probably ground movement. On London clay during two very dry summers that is not unusual but who is responsible for that section? Not Rob. He has a short section of pipe going into it and that used to go downhill. He bought the bought the flat with a working drain and the survey covered his drain and not the sewer. The fact that it was working because it was going into a sunken sewer could not and should not suddenly become his liability because Thames fixed their sewer. It is tough luck for Thames Water but that is the game they are in. Their undertaking to come and jet the sewer on a regular basis suggests, to me, that they have ownership of the problem.
@@SkillBuilder See what you are saying about it is their problem re the jetting Roger. But it looks like Rob's property has had a new manhole put in I assume before he bought it. If over the years the drains had sunk so that from Rob's new manhole to the Thames one on the corner it was more or less level it would still run. Now when Thames put a new pipe with a bit of correct fall it comes too high for Rob to connect properly. If it was a private job and me or you was doing it for the neighbour we would check the level between the manholes and then if there was a problem go to Rob and say look mate there is a problem what do you want to do? Rob and the neighbour would then have to sort out who pays for what. Obviously Rob would say " I am not paying it worked fine before" (ignoring the fact that it is his effluent that is going into next doors cellar).At that point I would walk away because I would probably have a hard time getting paid to do a proper job. It really needs a proper level taking from the bottom of the channel as it exits Thames manhole to the bottom of the plastic manhole in Rob's garden. It looks like you can easily get a line of site to a staff in both. If Robs manhole is higher (It won't need much 3 inch would do over that distance) then he has good cause to go back to Thames. If as I suspect there is little to no fall then I think he is really up against it as other people on here have said Thames are not responsible for a single drain only shared use. I think Thames know this (little fall) as re their response with the bit about (it is the way this drain has been designed). Ie their way of saying his drains aren't correct without actually saying that.
I'd imagine that if it was the boss of Thames waters house, this problem would of gone in a matter of day's and there wouldn't of been revisites to site to do all the work wrong again.
Thames water are correct in their interpretation, you are responsible for the drain on your proper if you are the first user up to your boundary, once it goes into your neighbours it then becomes a shared drain , at that point thames water assumes responsibility, before the legislative change it was the local councils responsibility. Unfortunately the homeowner here needs to relay his drains to accommodate the height at the join with the neighbours. As said by others get a dumpy level and gauge invert depths at as many points as you can to prove the issue
Thames say they will not clear drain over 10 metres off my property Private coats are uowards of £1350 +vat. Its their problem and dont know how to make them see this
Very confusing, how is the neighbour's drain pipe a sewer but his is not? What's the difference? And how is it a "private asset" if he can't do work on it without having to summon Thames, if he can then that's the solution he just has to raise it himself
I think he needs a solicitor! Thames Water are not only responsible for their work but may have devalued his property!
Yes, no doubt about it - this needs legal intervention to force Thames Water's hand!
Thames Water cause the issue I and dont think their have a leg to stand on. All building work should have building regs I think he should see his MP as well. Bad work like this could cause flooring.
@@jsl4228 The cost to take the Water Authority to court will be astronomical they are also a seperate body that will be capable of creating there own rules.The legal rules are not as clear cut as you would think.
This case and my own case should never go to Court and a precourt settlement made but the water Authorities are a law unto themselves and well knowagable at bullying.Due to there fantastic turn overs.
@@CrashUK28 See my comments to J Sl and what i have written.
@@timarcher7933 Thanks for that. I'll forget about the past decade or more I've spent litigating these things and listen to some moron on the internet.
If building regs don't apply where are we going with this ? As another comment states, measure it with a level (laser or Dumpy). Drains must have a self cleansing velocity, and a good guide is Maguires Rule. In my day 40 years ago we had building inspectors who often required air tests and mechanical/hydraulic tests. I was recently on a £25 million private house build where the drainage looked like a ride at Thorpe Park, and not one manhole lid was level.
This is a disgusting example of unregulated work and a disingenuous slimy pack of lies from the company. I would shovel it out every two weeks and post the contents to the manager. A career in politics awaits him. I think more of this type of exposure is required. Thank you for putting it in the public domain. This gentleman's home is now blighted and he needs legal representation.
A lawyer friend of mine just watched this, His answer is " You have a big case to take this further" Thames water have Literally devalued this guys house! Now that is grounds for a real and detailed "WORKS" correction , ( After all, we are all paying Our regional water companies monthly/yearly)
go for it claims direct?
I need to get your lawyer friends number
I have ongoing issues with Thames Water
Of course he should take it to court. Thames have caused a problem on private land and pretty much accepted responsibility. An excellent case.
I inherited a problem with my grandparents drains that they'd been having for over 10yrs! Every 3 months the drains would block up and they would pay a private company to clear the drains out £50 a pop, multiple people down the road including my grandfather said it was never the same when the main sewer line was replaced over 10yrs ago.
Fast forward to 2014 when I take over the property and start experiencing the problems pay a couple of times until I ring up Anglian Water and demand they come out and have a look. Anglian Water come out try jetting it but no luck I explained I could get 15m of rod down which was way past my property so its no longer my issue.
They asked what I want to do I said, right tomorrow I want a tanker and someone with CCTV, use the tanker to suck out and CCTV to inspect the pipe, the next day they turned up and did exactly what i asked, when it came to the inspection they said the blockage is at 5m (1m before its their responsibility) and I would have to replace the pipe.
Well they got a bit of a shock that weekend I hired a mini digger and set to work. Dug a tree up what was in the way and dug all the old clay pipe up and replaced with plastic until I got right to the road, I put in a tee and fed a pipe up to ground level popped an rodding eye fitting on. I put some water into the tee and observed that it didn't flow away - Excellent.
Put everything back together and called Anglian Water they turned up shocked to see i'd replaced the pipe and it hadn't fixed the issue, at this point it had started backing up so out came the tanker and down went the CCTV only to find the metal pipe was just completely rusted up and needed replacement, there was just enough of a hole for a rod to fit through but not a jet.
4 weeks later some contractors turned up they didnt dig up the road but instead they've sleeved it since then its been fine but look at all the extra work I had to do just to prove it wasn't our fault! while I was digging so many neighbours walking by said their 2 pence many with similar issues, battling with Anglian Water for years.
That rodding eye is right at the end of my responsibility so if it ever blocks in future I can make sure that bits clear then call Anglian Water and they will have no choice but to sort it. They orginally tried fobbing me off with the 3 monthly jetting and tanker for life and I just couldn't accept that as an answer.
Love a “stuck it to the man” story! Good on you mate.
I genuinely hope you took them to small claims to recoup the unnecessary expense you incurred.
Well done you mate. All power to your elbow. Ever thought of running for PM. You and that digger could uproot a lot of blocked up politicians 😄
Seriously though, not many people have the ability to do what you did. And we shouldn't need to. I have noticed as the years have gone by that politicians are gradually undermining the functionality of our society; creating a 'sloping shoulders' mentality in service providers which means that one after the other they try to shed responsibility for solving our problems.
There's a lot to be said for just forgetting it and living life. I bet you struggle with that idea; so do i and so do many others - but not enough to make the country function better for all. Great Britain... Hmmm, from the outside, maybe, but live here and I'm not so sure.
Hope the drains are still flowing... ! 🤔👍
Thames Water are a law upon themselves, my mother had terrible trouble with them earlier this year . They tell you what you want to hear and then do what they want and then feed you with a load of BS !!!! They are getting to big for their boots and need bringing down a peg or two. Well done Roger fantastic work as always
Thanks for that. My son's neighbour is doing an extension. The sewer is shared. Because it is not allowed to go under the new extension it has to re re-routed. This makes the part in the neighbours garden "public". We will be paying VERY close attention to the modifications. In fairness to the neighbour, extensive drawings (with falls etc) have been provided but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, workmanship is all! Not Thames Water but Southern Water.
Wow... thought this nonsense only occurred in the US. Nice to know we're all swimming upstream in sewage. Also, nice to know that there are experts from SkillBuilder to assist.
WTF!!!!!! Thanks for championing this Roger!!!!!
Good of you to do a video about this Roger. I think all water companies are the same, their definition if something is either a repair or am improvement is down to them, and I'm guessing they'll go for the cheapest option every time. Also, not bound by building regs - so what regs do they go by, made up ones that they control?
This animosity is brought to you by loads of experience with water companies. 🙄
I'd send Thames Water all his poops in a box with a note to forward them on to the next part of their sewage system as the pipes at his property don't work properly.
All the Dno’s are the same. Fing nightmare. Working on a fire damaged property where the electric and gas are off supply. Spent many hours on the phone and finally today there is a live electric cut out in the building at a cost of about 3k. Been trying eon to get the meter fitted but it’s either permanently engaged or if you do get to speak to a human being they ‘accidentally ‘ cut you off. Not just me the property landlord and his son are on the phone to them all the time as well. Not even tried with the gas yet but the water is on. Excellent videos thanks and merry Christmas.
Thames Water is fortunate that 169,000 subscribers haven't yet decided to telephone that Freephone number he so helpfully provided. What a disaster that would be.
Ridiculous, they should remedy this problem.
Legal advice a must. Hopefully a viewer may have suitable qualifications and can advise.
Excellent video, excellent reply .
7:05 They're already building the groundwork to renege on their three-monthly jetting of the pipes. You can guarantee it'll be down to six-monthly, then yearly, just as soon as they think they can get away with it.
Thames water spend more time and money avoiding fixing the problem than it would cost to fix.
What is wrong with these people? Do they enjoy messing people around or are they just congenitally thick?
Take it to the next level.
they rely on enough people giving up early.
No, they spend more money supporting LGBT or anothet alphabet people organisations.
Just as bad as the used car salesman. Keep bodging it up even though it cost's more and annoys every other bugger!
Wrong. They just pay fat salaries to their directors and huge dividends to their shareholders. That is why they are now going bust.@@rafalotreba6824
Sounds like a beast of a job. I’m pretty sure if a sewer on your property is your own problem unless it’s a shared sewer then it’s the responsibility of the water company.
I would ask who was the contractor used by the water company. Their “repair” seems to have caused new a problem. I would go directly to a solicitor. Just because it is a utility company, the laws remain the same.
we have the same problem with severn trent WA they don"t want to fix our problem but are happy to send out the jetting team when we telephone them to say the sewer is backing up. They sent the camera team who said the plpe is broken they said they whould report this but nothing has been done. As you said to fix a broken pipe must be more cost effective than to send the jetting team out many times when there is a blockage!
If it needs to be jet cleared every three months and it didn’t need this previously then quite clearly it is not working as it should. Also in the summer and if children are in the garden and possibly eating etc then this is a health risk. Needs sorting properly.
I used to work in the drainage industry. Unfortunately, manholes "holding sewage" is something we saw from time to time. Typically, the homeowner had lived at the property for many years, in some cases decades, without any issues. We would tell them of this when conducting CCTV surveys on the drains for prospective purchasers. This would come as a big surprise to them, as you can imagine. I absolutely sympathise with the homeowner in this video but if I can offer any comfort it is this. From my years of experience it is extremely unlikely that you will ever experience an "operational" issue. Just don't put any wipes (flushable or otherwise), fat, oil etc down the tubes. Of course, legal action is an option. The problem is the cost and the time it could take. Wishing you well.
Wow that is shocking, poor guy, it would give me sleepless nights.
If TW's works cause backflow, it's irrelevant if the home owners drain contributed. It worked before and doesn't now.
crap work someone got paid for and Thames defend it!!!
to quote an old phrase.."I could do that..Gizza job!"
454,000 subscribers. Should we all phone the dude ?
A pipe connected only to one dwelling is legally a private drain and is the sole responsibility of the property owner. A pipe serving two or more properties is a sewer. If it is adopted by the drainage company it is a public sewer if it is not then it is a private sewer the responsibility of those that benefit from it.
If Thames have carried out work to a public sewer which has then caused an issue with a private drain then they are negligent in tort and if damage or loss is incurred then the home owner can claim through the courts ....
Good response but Thames are saying there hasn't been damage or loss and the situation is normal. Just saying it might be hard to prove damage if all you have is some 'water' in the drain. Not taking sides on this but just reflecting on what Thames are saying.
Downright shoddy job by Thames Water in the first place,need taking to task!Well done Roger!
So, what you’re saying here Rodger is Thames Water came along, demolished the neighbours wall, threw his slabs in a skip, dug the garden up twice and had two goes at laying a sewer pipe which they got wrong on both occasions? The victorian sewer builders would be laughing like a drain at them.
Yes the miles of sewers and drains built by the Victorians, often in brick, are still serving London well.
I have a joint sewer and am at the end of the line. If there is a blockage, which has happened several times, I have to pay to have it cleared and then request the other parties contribute towards the cost. So far all the costs have been met by myself.
The government ordered water companies to take over “laterals” by legislation in 2011. Thereby drains in common ceased to be shared.Pictures under images on internet.Water companies sent out notices to this effect. Ask them for a copy. Also you can buy plans of your area sewers from the company. Ccounty record. Offices hold historic records when the company say they have not go a copy 19th century sewers. I have records of the famous Joseph Bazelgette visiting Hastings as a consultant See the Great Stink that closed Parliament.1840,s
Correction should be a punctuation mark full stop in my note above. Blue type error Pictures Starts next sentence .
The bit between your house the boundary is your drain. When it joins the neighbours it becomes a shared sewer. It depends where the blockage is. If their drains are running free then it is your blockage that has caused it. Have you asked the water company to unblock it?
•At the very beginning you say the basement flooded.
•Many London homes have converted their basements. These are below sewer level and traditionally where not intended as permanent habitable spaces.
•Thames Water adopted the sewers in Oct 2011. Any basement conversion or building work could have altered the Victorian in the hundred or so years between installation and 2011.
So I hypothesise that the sewer has been altered due to building work by a neighbour, previous homeowner or current homeowner. As the Thames Water Statements says the issue is on a privately owned manhole, then go ahead and do the work necessary to fix the issue. If I were the homeowner I’d also go ahead and check planning permissions for the neighbours to see if you can locate when the problems may have been caused.
So after read most comments it seem clear that all he has to do is raise he's manhole, problem solved, for him, but then bit of a bummer for for house next door, but this seems like how the water board think.
It would appear that they do need to be bound by building regulations.
It would have been good to get some more technical info on this. You've got a laser Roger, how about measuring the invert at both manholes to start with? The furthest manhole is new and may have been put in lower than the drain was originally although as you say it is close to the boundary and can't have changed much but really anything could have happened when that manhole went in... you know what some builders are like :-)
I was thinking of pursuing this and checking the inverts etc but I think if it was clearing his chamber before the work (no proof now) and that chamber was connected to the clay drain with flexible couplings it is possible that when Thames Water joined to it they cut the pipes and in joining it raised it to get the collar on. There is no way of proving this and therein lies the problem. The fact that the threw the slabs in the skip and smashed down the wall and skipped the bricks rather than salvaging suggest they were not on top of their game.
@@SkillBuilder i agree the fact they knocked the wall down when they could of worked under it and throwing the old flags (unless they were cracked or ruined in taking up) speaks volumes, only thing to do is dig it all up again see where they went wrong and then work out best fix and relay, who is going to do it is a big issue, cant believe they havnt reinstated the wall though!
I agree measure the 2 inverts if there is a fall they are at fault. Done some really fleet drains when I have had no chose between 2 fixed points. But if I have had a fall you can make it work especially with plastic pipe.
@@davidcarey41 I agree David there is more to tell on this story and, if I thought I would be paid for my time I would be in there like a shot but when you are a sole trader you have to keep an eye on the bottom line. I want to help the householder out but I want Thames Water to do the heavy lifting as the American's would say.
I have a similar problem with the sewer pipe that goes into the street from the pit in the front of my garden wall.
I believe it's called the lead pipe leed pipe ?
Mine is broken and I was told by a friend who is good at researching these matters that it is Thames waters responsibility to fix it.
Thames water have refused to repair it and instead they come round every few years and pump the pit out.
if i was him i'd go and dump a load of rags down the sewer so they had to come out and fix it, everyday till they sort it out.
I'd post them a shit in the mail every day until they fix the issue.
@@ricos1497 a few copy's of Corbyn's manifesto perhaps!🤣🤣🤣
@@ezzyboo3757his manifesto was perhaps the best for his nation, shame tho .
What you missed in this video roger is that simply setting up a laser level we could have checked the levels of the two chambers. Its my guess that there certainly is a back fall and looking at whats sitting in each end- the heights of the waste water would also prove that. The only fix is to raise everything up about 100mm, of course that also means the internal pipes coming from the house need raising and i can see 3 connections which means probably one pipe runs in under the house.
My guess is that with the homes being victorian (you mentioned this period although the homes look newer to me) the foundations are above the invert level of the foul drain and this has likely caused a little settlement over 120yrs causing the pipework to be pushed lower an inch or two.
Short of a macerator, which i would never advise especially for this, theres no other solution. I would temporarily advise the owner to have a bath at least once a week to give the drain the best chance of clearing the paper and turds that will accumulate with that large volume of water and flush midway through emptying the bath.
Apologies for the long reply. Dan @ weston Groundworks
Totally understand your concern, but need to ask, "Who is this surveryor that lifts manhole covers for a house purchase, and what 'band' survey is it?"
His name is Darren. Also responsible for measuring the depth of potholes. 😂
Well said Sir, increasingly Surveyor's don't know a damned thing and are pomped up estate agents. Lifting a manhole lid would be beyond 90% of them. Most reports read " We couldn't access this at the time , so you'd be advised to get someone who knows what they are looking at to check it, and here is my ridiculous bill".
I here about Thames Water issues all the time; like most big companies they'll try every trick in the book to not do something. And you have to laugh at the spokesperson offering his number to help when he's already decided not to help.
Thames. Awful. I had a basement leak which they said was rain. Flooded continously for 11 months until I proved it was from their sewer. They thob you off and literally leave you in it. It was a burst pipe. I should have sued them rotten but could not bar the extra stress so accepted a little compensation for damage to my basement.
Can really empathise with your dilemma. Most people don't have the stamina for long, drawn-out confrontations. Neither do I. This is where our politicians should step in to help - except they have created this "beast of a service infrastructure" by a continued undermining of it's functionality as time goes by. I think the solution is to create a new political system. How long have you got... ??!!!! 🤔
Roger there is one aspect of this where you have got it a bit wrong I think. What Thames are saying is the drain on your friend's property is a private drain up until the manhole where it becomes a lateral drain. So in simple terms if the drain is blocked by next door they will come and resolve that section free of charge but you are still responsible for your drain until it leaves your boundary. I had this problem myself in York, the drain was totally blocked due to insufficient fall, YW came out and resolved it from next door. I looked into it all and found what they were saying is legally correct. It was only the lateral drains which were adopted.
I understand this is an unlucky situation but the flush offer is most likely over and above their legal obligation. Like in York had the problem persisted we would have had to relay the drain to the boundary. So I think this is perfectly normal and the Thames response looks to have been good. And perhaps you will get some work out of it!
OK I understand your point. His manhole is right up against the boundary do there is 6 inches of pipe in a flexible coupling from that manhole to the shared section.
They have relaid the section twice from the boundary so they must think it is their sewer.
Nobody knows quite what went on when they did the work but it is conceivable that they lifted that first section of pipe out of his chamber when they put their coupler on. The problem is that it is a Thames Water sewer and if anyone else touches it they can then claim it was somebody else who created the problem.
Thames water are a huge bureaucracy, last year we had surface water drains overflowing in the rain, turned out you couldn't run a garden hose down next doors drain for more than a few minutes without it coming up in ours which was about 2 metres away. Simple youd have thought but every time they tried to say its either not an operational issue (apparently 4 inch drain cant take a domestic hose
Drainage systems are even worse on new builds. Give me an old system to work with any day
In my area, anything on your property is down to you, they would never do anything with our drains unless it was on the main street. We have always had to pay to do any works to our drains.
If they don't have to follow any regs why didn't they just dig a big hole in the garden and throw the pipe into the middle, easy job and the customer gets a free pond.
More to the point if you read the letter. They have rebuilt the sewer to the spec it was built to. Not current regs. Which means they know exactly what they have done. Don't blame the builders they have just done what they were told
Hi Roger. We do have a broken and blocked with soil and roots pipe.
That is shocking !!!
This is the result, as I see it, of a failed political system and a failed society. Our politicians have created a situation where service providers operate a 'sloping shoulders' mentality to avoid problems rather than solve them.
In this instance, I would recommend drawing a cross-section of the drain layout with very accurately measured levels and including boundaries. This would make it easier for MPs and legal reps to understand precisely what the problem is. You have it in mind - others don't often have the aptitude to imagine something under ground.
On the road where I live (outside my boundary) there is a gully with a collapsed sewer connection. No surface water goes down the gully and hasn't for decades with the result that the road floods big-time. I have engaged our MP; argued with Thames Water till I'm blue in the face; but they refuse to accept there is a problem. In a recent confrontation on Twitter, I was talking about "surface water and gullies and the collapsed sewer connection", when he suddenly began referring to their recent inspection of manhole covers not showing any problems. It left me non-plussed, thinking "Pardon? Where and when have we been discussing manhole covers?" Either the guy didn't know how gullies and sewers are connected, or he wasn't intelligent enough to comprehend a technical conversation, or he was being deliberately obtuse. And in view of the 'slopping shoulders' attitude I have been observing, I have to conclude the latter.
So how the hell do we move forward with these issues... and with the overarching issue - the mall-functioning of our society ??
Sorry, but at this instant I don't have an answer ...
I do Thames water build over agreements as part of my job, its legalised extortion, 299 a pop for a peice of paper underwritten by someone who knows little to nothing about drains.
I have been sent a build-over agreement form or should I say book to fill in from Thames Water, for an extension we are having built. It is asking me where the sewer pipe is, what depth it is at and what diameter the pipe is, they then want £300 odd for the privilege. How the hell am I supposed to know these things? I’m not a drainage expert or have survey equipment, what the hell am I having to pay for? It’s their sewer aren’t they supposed to know and tell me? Not the other way round.
@@michaelt2987 it is scandalous, its relatively easy to work out your drainage system by lifting man hole covers, flushing loos etc but to be honest I could send them a totally fabricated drawing and they would pass it as long as the fee was paid.............there was nothing wrong with the building inspector agreeing and passing a proposed method of building over a sewer pipe, concrete lintel and clearance are more than enough to ensure the drain is undisturbed............I've just started building regs drawings on a project that took 18 months and 3ks worth of bat surveys to gain planning permission and there is a forest across the road......this assorted nonsense will price us all out of a job in the end!
we should all ring the number untill they do something
Ive got a section 24 sewer as owned and maintained by Severn Trent Water Ltd ive spoken to Roger before over it.
There have been problems with this sewer for over 50 years with previous owners including rodent issues.
Severn Trent Water Ltd refuse to admit hydraulic lift problems due to sink holes and build up of fine debri.
As the nieghbour a rental house owned by a building surveyour has sewer blockage problems on his private sewer i have to sign a disclaimer for Severn Trent Water Ltd to extract the blockage via my home with in their words danger the extraction process could burst and spread swage over my kitchen and house.
They have previously jet washed from an inspection chamber in the road which is so deeo they have to winch operates in due to methane collection.
The nieghbour has a rodding eye to the sewer which he was totaly unaware of thats after he paid for extensive renovations.
Severn Trent Water Ltd refuse to use the rodding eye or the inspection chamber in the road for jet washing.
Previously in taking Severn Trent Water Ltd to court over cellar flooding 30 years ago they eventualy argued Legal Technicality to foce any case costs through the roof even where they had no defence.
I am now told by the Severn Trent Water Ltd site agent the problem of flooding of my cellar is totaly down to me and my private sewer connection and nothing to do with hydraulic lift.
30 years ago the case was set at over £1million.
Oh rodents dont live in sewers which is the official line.
This section 24 sewer was described by the head of the Enivromental Health Department Warwick District Council 30 years ago when they where agents of Severn Trent Water Ltd as a figment of my imagination.
Still waiting for none exsistant justice.
Tough one that .
When was the house and sewers built , how has recent developments affected ground waters and foundations etc .
But at the end of the day we all have to pay for sewers ,no choice so it should work .
Unbelievable ! They dont have any skilled men working for them
I understand both sides sometimes you just can’t get the slope you need it sucks but sometimes the main in the street is to high it has happened to me I have had to do a lot of sewers level because the man on the street is higher than when it comes out of the house and sometimes it here in Wyoming you can not go to shallow cause it will freeze no matter what you do it sometimes cost more to try to dig up the city main in the street and try to make it work with all the houses sometimes it cost more then all the houses combined.
Can't they or Rob install and pump to get it over the backfall?
Thames Water sent me a high bill which triggered me to get them out to investigate a leak. They dug the public pathway as this was where my meter was located ( yes my meter is not on my property boundary as with all the other homes in the area). The leak was repaired and new slabs were put in as the existing were dug and replaced. A week later another team came and dug the new paving, fixed leak (again) and more new paving put down. 2 weeks later another team knocked on my door and said they were here to fix the leak (Third time!). New paving was dug up and leak was fix for the third time, new slabs were laid and barriers taken away. I'm still in the process of getting the right bill as they need to make readings 20 days apart and was told they'll be calling me for readings.... that was 4 months ago.....
If only we could change suppliers in London!!
Will someone fix this properly? I think this would be a great video to showcase.
Everyone always overlooks the drainage when buying a house, it’s not included to have the drainage looked unless you get a home buyers survey on the drainage which is extra, you’ll be surprised how many people have bought a house and not been told about drainage issues, seen some terrible stuff, is that drain the end of the line? I’m sure if it is they are responsible to the boundary also they best check the deeds which should have info on the drainage
Need to chase them up about mine. They block every now and then, had them out a few weeks ago and the final clay U bend looks broken. They jetted and also took photos but not heard anything yet. Something to chase up in the new year.
Start chasing now, no point waiting a couple of weeks when you know they will mess you around for ages.
We have shared drain (which one access is on our driveway, where the problem is). It continually gets blocked, not because of bad angles, but because there are TWO main exit pipes, one above and one below and the bottom pipe keeps getting blocked because it is bricked off but has a 'trap' like gap which is way too small to caiter for two households and as the bottom pipe gets blocked it builds up too much debris for the top pipe to handle and then that also gets blocked.
The dynorod guys said that it needs to be broken and widened BUT, the system even though is on our property belongs to Thames water and we are not allowed by law to touch the pipework in any way shape or form and yet Thames water will not come out to fix it as it meets regulations.
(My feeling is that one day i am going to take a club hammer to the end brickwork and knock it through to the main sewer pipe as it is frustrating that we can't do ANYTHING about it yet there is a CLEAR problem.)
A Flygt Pump mecerator in a sump will solve any fall level issues then send the bill to TW
I have the same problem with being the head of a shared drain meaning the water companies and council have devolved all responsibility onto me. Luckily it seems to be in OK condition but I think it's outrageous that the whole line can be affected but if it affects me they won't do a damn thing about it. They should be responsible for the whole line, end of.
From what I understood from the Thames Water email, the home owner does not have any sewer running into his property, as Thames Water calls this a private asset. If this is the case, they do not have any responsibility nor liability for it - the home owner does until it crosses the boundary, i.e. that 6 inches of pipe is the home owner's responsibility. Thames Water is only responsible if it is a public sewer, that is, a sewer that is laid through a property from one neighbouring property to another neighbouring property. The home owner is responsible for their private sewer and should raise their private sewer so it has a 1:40 fall into the public sewer next door.
Thanks, interesting.
Not that the homeowner should have to; but in the interest of having enough weight behind your argument to get it resolved I would consider having a CCTV survey conducted as conditional survey of the runs (do this prior to them coming to jet out so you can show in the CCTV footage the pipes are full/not draining down), a GPS level survey of the invert and cover levels back to datum (so you can demonstrate unequivocally that the new runs have been laid to insufficient falls) then appoint an approved inspector to write you a report on how it does not comply with the building regulations and then ship that all off to the solicitor for them to make representation on your behalf to try and resolve it without the need for the courts etc but letting them know this will all be culminating in small claims court.
And when are they fixing the brick wall?!!
They can't find a match for the bricks they threw in the skip.
Skill Builder brilliant 🙄
It’s a disgrace. Outrageous. This is what you get with privatisation of a monopoly utility like this. They don’t care about you. They are not interested in doing a good solid proper job. You are a captive customer with no choice to go elsewhere , so they treat you with disdain and contempt. There’s no profit in good customer care. 😢😢😢. Thanks Thatcher. Thanks Tories…….keep pumping that sewage into the rivers…..😮😮
It could only happen in UK.Absolute joke.
In the UK we don't do joined up thinking. (Well the powers that be don't!).
Not true. I lived in the USA for 15 years. Same there if not worse.
Thank God for Brexit
Brexit will solve the problem.
They are responsible under6 section 94 of the wiat to maintain cleanse and keep flowing.. if its not flowing its in contravention of the statute!. Any alteration to sewers must also comply with the building regs.. contact local council if installation does not flow continiously
Interesting subject
How good Thames Water!! Not my problem!
Have you measured the fall across the 2 fixed pipes in the manholes and calculated the actual fall?
Is the pipe that has not been renewed pitch fibre🤔 if it is it may have de lamination and as it’s only shallow you may as well get building insurance to sort it out or just pay to have it replaced through to new pipework. Would like to see a cctv drain survey going upstream from chamber by garage to confirm though. If your client needs a survey I would recommend Burch drainage services. I live in Margate or I would do it👍
Thames Water mentioned a couple of times that their work is not subject to building regulations, has that been independently verified? Their work must be bound by some form of regulation, so the question becomes what regulations are they bound by, and have they honestly met them?
The fact that they consider regular inspection and jetting is a better financial option than correcting the issue they have created, makes me think there is something at play that they are hoping the home owner does not discover. The cost of their solution is going to be huge, so what cost are they trying to avoid?? It must be massive.
CDM which sits under HASAWA! It’s the LAW
@@mward5296 That covers safety during the work, but surely there must be regulations that control the work quality and physical systems they are putting in place. The level of bureaucracy in this country surely cannot disappear when sewers are involved.
I mean if every road marking is specified to the mm, with regulations on when they may be used on given roads, surely there are regulations on sewer piping, specification of materials, instalment requirements, and acceptable operation levels.
Wow - so who is responsible? Is it the local council? I'd hate to be in a situation like that...
Disgraceful. If this situation had been the result of a builder's efforts, building control would have rejected the work outright. Double standard Britain, once again.
I know were talking about drains and sewers,but who is rebuilding the wall? It's going to cost a few Bob seeing they thrown the bricks away, they won't match only if they get reclaimed bricks and they won't be cheap.
£4 each for reclaimed London stocks
The fact that they have "agreed to jet" the section isn't very reassuring, because if the rights to the area get sold on, or thames water cease to exist, that agreement will be gone.
Leaving the property owner having to go through the hassle and cost of doing this.
It would also remove the opportunity to make them take financial responsibility for any repair that needs doing if they are found to have created the problem.
His only options is to raise his sewer levels but will this impact elsewhere . or is it possible run his own new sewers to the street bypassing the new repair work . it will mean digging up alongside the existing new repair
Just can not believe that TW can do such a mess up!!!
Ultimately it is the contractor they employed to do the work that is at fault. Roger's friend and his neighbour should obtain the address of the contractor and jointly sue the contractor and Thames Water for the issue of the sudden lack of fall following the work AND the damage done to the fencing, flagstones and wall.
If these 2 householders are properly insured, they might find their house insurance covers them for legal costs in the case of defective workmanship that impacts upon the 'amenity' of both houses, so it should cost them very little and any excess will be recoverable on their behalf by the insurers.
I had a similar issue with United utilitys - we discovered a sewer that passed through my back garden while digging for an extension, we discovered the original 1950s builders had run a land drain from under the adjacent property in to the sewer which was poorly pieced together the connection method was they chipped a section of the clay collar off and butted it up united utility’s agreed to fix that with a small section of pipe 600mm and cut off the “land drain” as requested by the building control, but we also found that the sewer was damaged near our lateral connection and had concrete round it after however united utility’s would not repair as they said it was our connection - so we chipped back the concrete to find there was a missing collar on the pipe wrapped with plastic and covered with concrete but this was actually behind our connection . We ended up doing the repair ourselves as we gave up on United utility’s as we didn’t want to spend months arguing the toss also we had a deep trench open and waiting to pour concrete .
I think they rely on people getting themselves out of the shit.,
Skill Builder no pun intended
any update on this?
The home owner ended up moving the drains at their own expense. Thames Water would not play or pay.
could he get the health and safety people involved? Jon Wilmot had a genius idea whatever was in the drain post to the manager
These big company’s are all the same. We had a problem with phone lines, all the lines are owned by bt and open reach. Over a month we had nothing and we was lied to at least ten times saying they will be out to sort and they didn’t. If these company’s can’t do the work and do it properly they need to sub it out to small guys that will want the work.
Roger, always loved your videos BUT please stop the 2 x 20 seconds advert’s, thanks NT
How do you think he's going to get paid he's not a charity, take out a you tube premium service, it's ad free
So many things to add. Did you vote torie, then you're a volunteer. Surveyors never remove covers so don't rely on that. Sell essential assets to shareholder driven companies and what do you expect?
Ask for payrise they say we have no money, but doing the same job over and over again for God knows how long it's fine
that is not a victorian drain manhole, it has been replaced at some time
When M Thatcher privatised water and included drains in the deal the rule was pipes and drains under grassed areas are the landlords resposibility. On the Estates under my wing in London were built in the sixties with loads of grassed areas. Guess where most of the pipes & sewers were laid. Every time Thames Water were contacted the reply would be sorry mate not ours its yours even when there was no doubt it was not. When the Estates were built no one thought that Local authorites would be privatised as well. Kitchens and Bathrooms were designed at the rear of dwellings. Then a right to buy came in. Siblings clubbed together and bought their parents home and about 10 years later because London water pipes were in so bad a condition these pensioners ended up with huge bills and having to take out mortgages. I could go on.
Looking at the manhole at 4:00 from what you have said I assume the water flows from left to right as we look at it. If so then the channel bend is falling backwards (looking at the water in it) so the manhole and the original pipes joined to it have sunk. I bet if you put a staff on the darker bit of channel on the RHS and in the bottom of Robs manhole they would be more or less level so originally the weight of Robs water would have pushed it through. You could argue that Thames are responsible for fixing this manhole and raising the channel properly but it is not their fault that Robs drains are too low. There are some comments about building over the drains? If he is having an extension or something he will have to raise his drains. From what I can see Thames are more or less in the right.
Stephen
The manhole on the corner belongs to Thames Water. There is, as you say, a backfall. The section back to Rob's manhole collapsed and that was probably ground movement. On London clay during two very dry summers that is not unusual but who is responsible for that section? Not Rob. He has a short section of pipe going into it and that used to go downhill. He bought the bought the flat with a working drain and the survey covered his drain and not the sewer. The fact that it was working because it was going into a sunken sewer could not and should not suddenly become his liability because Thames fixed their sewer. It is tough luck for Thames Water but that is the game they are in. Their undertaking to come and jet the sewer on a regular basis suggests, to me, that they have ownership of the problem.
@@SkillBuilder See what you are saying about it is their problem re the jetting Roger. But it looks like Rob's property has had a new manhole put in I assume before he bought it. If over the years the drains had sunk so that from Rob's new manhole to the Thames one on the corner it was more or less level it would still run. Now when Thames put a new pipe with a bit of correct fall it comes too high for Rob to connect properly.
If it was a private job and me or you was doing it for the neighbour we would check the level between the manholes and then if there was a problem go to Rob and say look mate there is a problem what do you want to do? Rob and the neighbour would then have to sort out who pays for what. Obviously Rob would say " I am not paying it worked fine before" (ignoring the fact that it is his effluent that is going into next doors cellar).At that point I would walk away because I would probably have a hard time getting paid to do a proper job.
It really needs a proper level taking from the bottom of the channel as it exits Thames manhole to the bottom of the plastic manhole in Rob's garden. It looks like you can easily get a line of site to a staff in both. If Robs manhole is higher (It won't need much 3 inch would do over that distance) then he has good cause to go back to Thames. If as I suspect there is little to no fall then I think he is really up against it as other people on here have said Thames are not responsible for a single drain only shared use. I think Thames know this (little fall) as re their response with the bit about (it is the way this drain has been designed). Ie their way of saying his drains aren't correct without actually saying that.
I'd imagine that if it was the boss of Thames waters house, this problem would of gone in a matter of day's and there wouldn't of been revisites to site to do all the work wrong again.
Tex hooper is a great manhole inspector
He'd have got a far better result if is name started with HRH!
Or Johnson, Rees-Mogg or Symonds
Thames water are correct in their interpretation, you are responsible for the drain on your proper if you are the first user up to your boundary, once it goes into your neighbours it then becomes a shared drain , at that point thames water assumes responsibility, before the legislative change it was the local councils responsibility. Unfortunately the homeowner here needs to relay his drains to accommodate the height at the join with the neighbours. As said by others get a dumpy level and gauge invert depths at as many points as you can to prove the issue
Thames say they will not clear drain over 10 metres off my property
Private coats are uowards of £1350 +vat.
Its their problem and dont know how to make them see this
I had a blockage in my manhole. It was awful but the doctor gave me an enema problem solved
Very confusing, how is the neighbour's drain pipe a sewer but his is not? What's the difference? And how is it a "private asset" if he can't do work on it without having to summon Thames, if he can then that's the solution he just has to raise it himself
1 in 40 is normal but 1 in 120 can be done in extreme cicumstance, so why the did not do somewhere inbetween boggles the mind.
So..... what happens now?????