The Blind Spot Of Science||Pt1
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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salam alaikum brothers and sisters, Hamza here 😎
please don't leave insulting comments against Sebastian, he is a fantastic lad and listened with courtesy to my ramblings.
so please show kindness ,encouragement and respect to him :)
Jazakallah khair
EFDawah Brother hamza ,greetings from the netherlands, may allah grant you jannah and jamee3 al mouslimeen incha allah. Thanks for everything i learned a lot of you now i can give incha allah dawah in Amsterdam.
Jazakum Allah SWT khair brothers!
He indeed showed courtesy and was geniune and respectful, may Allah SWT guide him.
Salaam Hamza,
Thankyou for your work! Its truly inspirational!
EFDawah
May Allah reward you and the brothers at SC, Jzak Allah Khair.
Alban JashAri
Assalamu Alaikum.
Mu'min = believer, not knower, Allah refers to the Muslims (submitters to the will of Allah) in the Quran as Mu'mineen. (believers) Hence Hamza's claim that to be a Muslim is to believe in Allah is correct.
Jzak Allah Khair
This guy seems very sincere and willing to listen. He's not arrogant which is welcome 😊
Guys don't write hostile comments, the guy in the video is my friend (I'm in the blue blazer on his right) he reads these comments. Also he is not an Atheist, in fact he detests atheists. Make Dua for him and write encouraging comments 😀
May Allah SWT guide him and make it easy for him to find good people that will explain things to him intelligently, properly and respectfully.
May Allah SWT reward you too brother.
Tarek Mousa thank you my brother
Nahid Ali Can I speak with Sebastian, please? I understood where he was coming from and felt that, perhaps, Hamza did not understand what he meant by empirical vs logical evidence. I'd like to ask him a few questions, can you help me connect with him, please?
Hatem Elsharidy if you live in London I can organise something Inshallah but it would take some time as we are really busy
Nahid Ali no I'm not in London, in the USA but am available to talk 24 hrs, do you want to exchange Skype information by email or something? (Not interested in video chat, instant messaging is fine)
I think a little respect for Sebastian is in order here. He has displayed good manners, respect and humility. Completely unnecessary to bash him in the comments. "I would rather sit with a well-mannered kafir than a bad-mannered Muslim." (Umar al-Khattab, quoted by Sh. Kamal El Mekki)
TazKhan786 Asalaam Alaykum. Can you share a source for that quote? I don’t mean Shaykh Al Mekki, but one with a chain or a book with number.
chris chow i always find it rather odd when non muslims ( they are called kaffirs in Islam that's just how it is even when an initially Muslim person become an atheist they are called kaffir ) are offended by the word kaffir if you don't care if you don't believe if you consider that the believers are naive and unreasonable why would you care for their opinion ? You might want to ask yourself that
chris chow what are you talking about ? Kafir means someone who disbelieve's in Islam. So should I take from your comment, you'd rather be called a Muslim then ?
im a kafiir to christians and jews too kafiir just mean someone who deosnt believe
This gentleman, on the left, is a bright individual who had a conve with Mohammed Hijab and also Mohammed Tawheed from Guidance Avenue, and seemed to be close to Islam. May Allah make us all steadfast on his religion.
Ameen
Ameen
Sebastian seems like a nice and intelligent guy. He comes across as sincere. I like him. Inshallah he will accept Islam.
BreakFix u wish he will lol, he's very credible and logical plus sincererity in his argument and heart, makes hamza to look like a child as his argument is based on the idea of winning rather than learning lol, not gd enough 🙈
Maxwell Agyemang y' know our entire religion is based on the fact that the believers in allah the people who sincerely follow his will do good deeds and worship him will gain paradise so the best thing a Muslim could wish for another person is to be a Muslim so I find that this person wishing for Sebastian to become a Muslim is rather adorable
only Allah can guide him, he doesn't look interested. it looks like he just wants to debate and win
Love these discussions a lot. Better than yelling at each other and not learn from one another. Big up brother hamza
If u watch all the debates, all this peaceful argument only comes when he argue with atheist. But when it comes to christian, they yelled in order to hide the truth. So I respect atheist more than these pagans.
When br. Hamza is involved in these debates concerning: 'Beliefs' , it is paramount that you are swtiched on otherwise one lapse of concentration and confusion will set in; your whole argument will fall apart; and your interlocutor will gain upper hand. This is why br. Hamza is not only extremely smart but very intelligent -
DarkEntity 786 He obviously run out of preaching words and statements thats why he needed he's number 2 man against a non believer.And just cos u believe it doesn't make it wright
Esoteric Knowledge bro are u a Muslim
??
Paul Cleminson God knows who's a believer and who's not. This was an intelligent debate and discussion, not an immature argument. Always good
Paul Cleminson first he didn't run out of preaching words. It's called knowing your audience. Just because at this point a Christian would get stuck. And we Muslims don't. Doesn't make you right. Sorry to burst your bubble.
O Allah increase brother Hamza's knowledge, understanding and intelligence so that we all benefit from it and grant us with this niymat too. And purify our intentions only for the sake of Allah. Aameen.
Sebatian is a bright fellew and a good listener, beside his good manners.
May Allah guide him to the right path
Sebastian is a good guy. I hope he realized by now how logical and reasonable the belief in Islam is.
A message from your creator:
" So remember Me ; I will remember you. And be grateful to Me and do not deny Me."
Quran 2:153
the atheist basically agreed (and explained really well) that believing in a creator is the natural default state of any rational and logical human being. wow
Urwa Shahid but apparently he is being illogical for being an agnostic
Kurama7 His views don't really fit that of an agnostic if/when he says things like that.
Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
I would have to watch it again, but I think he certainly holds views that don't fit that definition much at all.
Kurama7 i think he is the most logical agnost I have seen at the SC so far. He is surely closer ro the truth than others. May Allah guide him
RAKS 8, check out part 2 to this. I think Sebastian is a very sincere individual. May Allah guide him.
chris chow Everything that began to exist requires a cause. Maybe if you didn't change people's argument you would make some sense.
Brother Hamza is a legend! Keep the videos coming! :)
MMA Release let me tell u something here bro, Hamza lost the argument right from the start and kept making things up which weren't making no reasonable sense, this guy is arguing the honest truth with the intent of learning and came out clear, logical and reasonable, all that Hamza says is ' no no no no no and always jumps in to interrupt thinking he's right lol but he's no where near it lol, pure delusionnal smh lol
MMA Release - U r right - Bro Hamsa makes legendary stupid vids - allways worth watching if U want have fun
I didn't know you were a Muslim bro.
You learn much from these videos keep it up! May Allah purify ur intentions Amin
Another amazing video !!!
I was there and enjoyed listening to the discussion. Thanks both bro Hamza and Sebastian for making my mind pain to digest all the inputs.. thanks again and it was a wonderful discussion. 👍👍👍👍
If only Hamza was sweeter and gentler with his words, then people will draw to him a lot more. I understand sometimes thats whats needed. But not everyone is the same.
Exactly!
Best discussion i have heard in long time . Both of u sebastian and hamza brother great job . Learnd so many things from it . Thanks
What a nice young man is Sebastian, I wish Hatun & co. Take an example of him. May God bless him.
Numan Shamsi the problem is that they have an agenda whereas Sebastian seems to be sincere and is humble in his way of discussing
The guy in the pink is well mannered and he’s seeking knowledge and reason so he deserves respect.
*{فَمَن يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللَّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ (125) وَهَٰذَا صِرَاطُ رَبِّكَ مُسْتَقِيمًا ۗ قَدْ فَصَّلْنَا الْآيَاتِ لِقَوْمٍ يَذَّكَّرُونَ (126) }*سورة الانعام 125
*{So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe ۞ And this is the path of your Lord, [leading] straight. We have detailed the verses for a people who remember(126) }*
Surat Al-Anam125-126
*May Allah guide them to the straight path*
last time when he spoke with br muhammed tawheed was very close to logic and islam as well , but he is very smart person inshallah he will find the truth sooner
What a polite and nice guy. It's always great to speak to nice people like this.
اخي حمزه بارك الله فيك وبي فريقك، فخر الامه، الله يزيدكم قوه و ثبات، your sister from Germany
Love to hear Brother Imran Talk
Alhamdulillah for Islam
Showing calmness.... good to see.... May Almighty Allah show you right path i.e ISLAM
When Hamza has got coffee and he's giving you dawah best believe your about to get shred into pieces
+Abu Rayyaan The thing is that this is not a mentality a Muslim should have. It's not a game of winning or losing debates. Rather, it is about calling others to the Most Merciful.
2manyusernamestaken who said it's game winning or game losing? No where did I say that. Your just assuming. I've been involved in dawah myself for 9 years and believe me I don't have that sort of mentality, if it was then we need to question our intention!
Being so sure of your intention is not a good sign bro. And words like "best believe your about to get shred into pieces" hint at a competitive intention. Just saying be careful because you could be harming your own deeds and harming others too.
When Hamza starts to explain his reasoning, wow. MashaaAllah brother.
Truly “وكان الإنسان أكثر شيء جدلا”
Aww I think Sebastian is amazing - he is really smart and shows no arrogance at all. I really pray he is guided
Alhamdulilah we have smart people like hamza who can talk at such an intellectual level
Nice conversation. The guy on the left is talking about an infinite regression not being a problem, but his idea of the infinite regression is that it's not actually infinite, while it was assumed to be, or really already defined as being infinite. And infinity can not end, by definition. An infinite series of past events simply doesn't have a beginning. The point here really is that infinity does not exist within a timeline. If time was infinite in the past, then it had no beginning. The question then arises; how did we end up in the present moment, if the timeline is supposedly without a beginning? You get these weird consequences, like infinity actually having a duration. You're going to add now to infinity. So for example, today, infinity is 24 hours longer than what it was yesterday. Or that since the Big Bang, an infinite amount of time increased by 13,8 billion years. What's infinity plus one? You can't quantify infinity using units of time that are finite. 50% of an infinite amount of time would still be infinite. There's no traversing infinity, no seperating it into smaller portions. You can never reach a specific moment in time if the timeline that preceeds it is infinitely long, for it would require an infinite amount of time to pass before it could reach that moment. Infinity is not a time. What we call this in the islamic arguments, in English, by lack of a better term is; beginningless eternity. The beginninglessly eternal does not reach a moment on a timeline that has a before and an after.
So the example that the guy brought up about distances is flawed, in a subtle way. He uses an arrow and a running man, I believe, but it really comes down to divisions of distances. So you start in location A and you're on your way to location B, but before you can reach B you first have to reach half the distance between A and B, let's just call it A+. Then before you can reach A+, you need to first traverse half the distance between A and A+. Before you reach A++, you have to first reach A+++, and you keep dividing the distance. Mathematically, you can do that, and you might come to the conclusion that since you can keep dividing these distances, then the distance from A to B can never be traversed, because it now becomes an infinite distance. The problem here is that mathematics is really the only thing that I know of that approaches infinity in the real world. It's not an actual infinity in the real world, it's more of an abstract construct of an infinity. In the real world, we know that distances can in fact be traversed. So you will certainly arrive in location B. If the distance between A and B was truly infinite, then you could never leave A to begin with, or if you could, you would never reach B. This means that distances in the real world are finite. Now I don't know how far one would have to zoom in, into the micro-world, to finally find the shortest possible distance, but it must be there somewhere: a location A on the smallest possible level of reality, right next to location B, while there's no A+ location in between the two. A is not the same as B, but there's no A+ location in between them anymore.
So if you imagine an object, a tiny object, of equal size as the smallest possible location in space, traveling from A to B on that level, then when the object leaves A on its way to B, where is it? Asking "where" something is, is asking for a location in space, but since there is no location for the object to occupy after leaving A and prior to arriving in B, then the object disappears out of existence, and a moment later re-emerges in B. The same is true for space as was for time, which is that infinity is not a distance, just like it's not a very long period of time. Time and space are therefor not infinite. Infinity is not made up of finite parts or portions.
That's why I believe that the universe isn't infinitely big, as some people believe. It's made up of finite parts of distances and locations, so why would the whole be infinite, but not its parts? The idea that the universe is infinitely big can't actually be established. I've heard people like Stephen Hawking express this view. There's no way to know that, though. You can only confirm that the universe is not infinite in size, there is no other outcome, exactly because infinity will always remain elusive, because it can never be reached. Besides, Hawkings himself contradicts that statement by claiming (correctly in this case, imo) that space began to exist at the Big Bang moment of inflation. These two ideas (of space having had a beginning and space being infinite) can't both be true. If the spacial dimensions came into existence 13,8 billion years ago, then space is finite. Space is in fact expanding, as they will confirm, and I think it's absurd to claim that this infinite space is somehow increasing in size. It's actually ridiculous: the object of ridicule.
Ininfity does not have percentages, because a percentage already assumes a finite quantity (100 units in this case, with the 1% simply being 1 part out of a 100). Well if your 100 grand total represents infinity, then the 1% of that still remains infinite. It's not 1 per centum, but rather 1 per infinity, which isn't less than the whole, but equally infinite, which makes it incorrect to even speak of units within an infinity, because infinity is not a finite quantity that can be divided into lesser parts. If it was, then taking one unit out of the whole would decrease the size of infinity, while adding one would increase infinity, which makes no sense. Since infinity has no endings and beginnings, and since infinity can not be comprised of finite units, whether in space or time, then an infinite regression back in time is simply not possible.
The world then must have had a beginning, because it's not an option that it had none, as that would mean that this infinite series of past events is comprised of finite parts, which can't be true, and you'd have to explain how infinity reached the present day. Since the world had a beginning, then it must have been brought into existence by some 'other', and this 'other' can not be bound to a timeline itself, because then 'it' would require 'another' to bring it into being, and then that one requires an other, and so forth, and you're back to the infinite regression problem. This 'other', that brought the world into existence when it did not exist, must be free of time. Here you have your true infinity: the one not locked in a timeline. Not to mention that time itself, according to many scientists, and according to the explanation I just wrote an essay on (ahum, sorry for that), time itself started to exist at the initial moment of the Big Bang. The Creator of the world is therefor not in-time, and His beginninglessness is not a past-time. This Creator therefor never began to exist, and His existence can never come to a stop. This is how one might arrive at the concept for God, as this explains the emergence of the world. So the sceptic might ask why it's not possible that the world simply brought itself into existence, and this can be discarded as an option, because that which does not exist isn't a 'self' that can perform the action of 'bringing itself into being'. It needs to exist to perform the action, but if it exists already, then the action becomes obsolete, as 'coming into existence' is no longer required, while it was established that it began to exist, which means that it was non-extant. And since it didn't exist yet, it's impossible that it could have created itself.
The idea that the Creator does not exist is rejected because of the absolute need of everything that begins to exist to have its emergence (out of non-existence) outweigh its prior state of non-existence by the One who makes it so. This is true for the original creation of the universe at the Big Bang event (or an event prior to that one, possibly), and it's also true for the tiny object moving from A to B. These things can be formulated in a better way, but I tried to keep it simple, without using too much confusing language, and obviously, there's more to it than what I've mentioned here. But I think this is food for thought, and of course, Allah swt knows better.
XaeeD , mashallah fantastic essay 😎
No problem, it was just to add to the discussion, to hopefully contribute, y'know? Who are you, if you don't mind me asking? You're the camera man?
Very well put and detailed and easy follow and understand. Great job!
XaeeD You have asserted that space must be continuous, but there isn't any evidence for this. All scientific evidence indicates the contrary , that space is continuous. Same also for time.
You have listed some properties of infinity that are correct. infinity + 1 = infinity. infinity / 2 = infinity. I can see why this doesn't sit right with you, and the reason is because these statements are actually informal and not strictly accurate. I think you won't be entirely happy with the following explanation. I tried writing out a complete explanation without gaps, but I realised I was invoking more and more jargon, so I'm going to give you the following explanation and then provide a link to look at if you would like to understand better or are not happy. Basically , first of all , these equations treat infinity as though it is a number , but it is not. Infinity is a property, or concept. These equations look like they're talking about numbers, but really they're talking about cardinalities, which means the size of a set. Some jargon: a set is an unordered collection of some things which are all different (cannot have two or more of the exact same thing in a set); an element is a member of a set ; the union of two sets is a new set that contains all the elements from both (so quite like adding two sets together ). So these equations are actually saying "the cardinality of the union of an infinite set and a set with 1 element in it is equal to the cardinality of an infinite set" and " the cardinality of an infinite set where you have removed every second element is equal to the cardinality of an infinite set" But then you might ask, "well then what the heck does equals mean here". Well here equals means something different from normal, it is a relation that asks "can you find a 1 to 1 correspondance between each element in the two sets" that is how you find out whether two cardinalities are equal. And the surprising result is that you can find a 1 to 1 correspondance between the sets in the above examples. So yes, while it would be nonsense for k +1 = k for any number k, infinity is not a number , and = means something different when you're talking about the size of sets.
you might think that therefore we can't talk about time having no beginning, i.e. there being infinite time in the past sensibly. but not really so. for example our number line is infinite both in the positive and negative directions, but we can still do sensible arithmetic in it. We simply aren't able to access the ends of the number line and I think that's more something that seems psychologically disgruntling rather than a rational flaw.
So thinking about Xeno's paradox again, you have correctly identified that in any continuous interval, there are infinite sub intervals. Rather than leaping to the conclusion that therefore there cannot be continuous intervals, why not look at all the scientific data we have so far which all indicates that time and space are both continuous, and therefore that there are infinite smaller intervals inside. So to return to Hamza's assertion:
" if there is an infinite chain of events leading up to now then we would never get to now"
ok , in that case, our current moment contains events that were caused by events that happened half a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 3/4 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 7/8 of a second ago which were caused by events that happened 15/16 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 31/32 of a second ago.... oh look, there's an infinite chain of events between now and one second ago so I guess we never actually got to right now....
But clearly we did get to right now from one second ago, so proof by contradiction , the claim that infinite chains events can't happen because if there were an infinite chain of events we would never get to the present moment is untrue so long as time is continuous, and all the physical evidence available indicates that it is.
Hi Jaimie, thanks for the reply.
I never knew the example I brought up was called the Xeno paradox. I never read about it, it was never pointed out to me, I came up with that on my own one day (or night probably), and it always bothered me. I can see why they call it a paradox, because I figured that the world would be static as a result of the process of infinite divisions, while the world is obviously dynamic and constantly fluctuating, so you'd have to find some way out of that, to explain how that's possible. I'm sure people have found ways to do that, probably physicists, and I'm not gonna pretend I have the knowledge to really delve into that, I really lack the foundational education to approach it from that angle, and so to me this was a rational problem, and it still sort of is. And at my own risk now, I'm going to propose (perhaps out of ignorance, but that's ok, I'm not here to win or lose, but to expand my own understanding) that the scientific data you're referring to is primarily based on calculus, and I find it difficult to view that as empirical data, even if it's founded upon certain natural fenomena. Cause to me, an actual infinity in the real world is very hard to imagine. So an answer to the Xeno paradox would either have to incorporate an actual infinity existing in the real world as part of the solution, or it would have to be emitted from the solution. I figured that the latter would be the most plausible solution, and that's not based on calculations or empirical data, but on a rational thought process behind it. For example, if an event half a second ago caused an event 3/4 of a second ago, which caused an event 7/8 of a second ago, etc., and you keep this up ad infinitum, then you'd have to eventually conclude that there is no shortest possible distance in time between the present moment and a moment that occured just prior to it. There's always an additional moment prior to it. The present moment would then always elude you, it would always remain in the future still, unreachable, because the time that it takes to get to that moment can not be concluded. So that's the paradox. Rationally, you'd have to say that the present moment can only arrive if an infinite amount of moments in the past somehow reached a conclusion, which contradicts the very idea of infinity. But practically, in the real world, we recognize that the passing of time does occur, and the present moment somehow arrived. So here's where you go: "See?! While the distance in time between half a second ago and the present moment can be infinitely divided into smaller portions, we still arrived in the present moment, and therefor, a continuous sequence can consist of infinite parts and still be traversed." That right there, to me, you need to explain, because I don't see how you established this as being true somehow, you simply claimed it to be the case, but that's mathematically. I know that you can divide distances (in time and space) forever, but that's in numbers, so how do you know this is true for the real world? I really do perceive it as a rational contradiction, and not just me not wanting to accept some other explanation. It almost becomes like a visual representation of infinity in the form of an animated fractal, which isn't actually infinite in any real sense, but it's just an image that starts and then loops back on itself, on a 2D finite screen. It's not really infinite as such. How do you know that the continuum is just that, and that it doesn't have any smallest possible units in reality? Not in calculus, mind you, but in the real world. It's like doing a calculation of how many galaxies there are, how many stars in those galaxies have planets that might support life, and you come up with this huge probability of life existing somewhere in the universe, and you take that calculation and claim that now you know that life exists out there. You still require the empirical evidence of an actual, tangible organism, and the calculation alone doesn't prove the existence of extraterrestrial life. If you know what I mean?
Sorry for the long reply, I just want to figure out how you confirm the existence of actual infinities in the physical (or temporal) world. Thanks!
Wa Alaikum Assalam
Nice work Brother Hamza👍
ALLAH bless you and your entire family
Aameen
I'm from INDIA
Su'Bhaan Allah,
What a amazing conversation, so logical with reason, May Allah bless brother Hamza and all the brothers and sisters in the ummah Insha-allah
Wallahi I can't wait for part 2
As'Salaam Wah'Lekum
I love you my brothers ... may ALLAH protect you all and reward you all ALJANEH with the prophets... i am so proud of you all brothers .. Hamza , Hashem , Mansour , Shamsy , Paul , ....
To all of you! please see the background (the nature), the trees, lights, the wind blow so soft, and the air seems so cool! it is like in heaven! I love it so much!...…. Salam from Indonesia
Mashallah Hamza is so knowledgeable person, I really enjoy watching him and also listening to him very often. Real Lion. May Allah bless you brother!
brother hamza has a good way to convince may allah give him even much more knowledge.
Masha'Allah Very respectful and thoughtful Young man 👏 May Allah show him the way. If you read this Sebastian I wish you all the best and to find the truth.
بارك الله بكم حمزه وعمران وعباس وجزاكم الله خيرا
Love you Br Hamza... Maa Shaa' ALLAAH. This young man seems sincere,..may ALLAAH Guide him to Islam
Very intelligent and interesting conversation, I must see the rest of the video, it's informative, mashallah keep up
Best One video in EFDawah
Inshallah this brother will accept the truth and come to Islam. He regularly comes to SC and he even had a chat with Br. Hijab. He's questions are completely logical. Me being a muslim even have questions about Islam. This don't make an individual arrogant, he is out there to find the truth and inshallah he will. He won't if he doesn't ask questions.
Hamza has nailed it... Sebastian seems lost at his explanation... can't wait for part 2
MashaAllah brother hamza and brother imran big up to seb for being honest and sincere
i realy wish if sebastian convert to islam cause we need a man like him with his knowledge and his fantastic soul...
He seems like he is honest guy, may Allah guide him to the truth.
Sebastian is a good guy respect
I do not believe men landed on the moon.
theres evidence they didnt, although its being covered up lately...
May Allah bless you with more hayat bro hamza. I love you for the sake of Allah ❤️❤️❤️
Cant wait for the part 2
i have learnt alot from this discussion both lads are great, Allah is Great
This guy would not be here at the speaker's corner today if there was no starting point (or an uncaused cause). the infinite regression would be going on even now with a creator creating another creator. why is it so hard for him to see this clear problem?
Urwa Shahid because he’s dishonest with himself. His heart is sealed. You don’t need to be a genius to understand this. He’s in rejection and denial. That’s why. Allah guides who he wills. For some people, you can talk to them for 30,000 years and they still won’t believe. The prophets did miracles in front of people’s faces and they still rejected it.
Ramzy Abdulsattar yeah well may Allah guide him. He might be sincere, we dont know if there's a seal upon his heart or not. We will do dawah to him assuming that he is a potential muslim, in sha Allah. Look at zakaria, for example. Couple of months ago he was saying that Quran is the word of satan. Who knew this person would become muslim and invite people to islam. SubhaanAllah. :)
He alluded to why an infinite chain of past events are not a problem when he referred to xeno's paradox but for some reason did not fully elucidate the idea.
" if there is an infinite chain of events leading up to now then we would never get to now"
ok , in that case, our current moment contains events that were caused by events that happened half a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 3/4 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 7/8 of a second ago which were caused by events that happened 15/16 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 31/32 of a second ago.... oh look, there's an infinite chain of events between now and one second ago so I guess we never actually got to right now....
There is an infinite chain of events in any finite interval of time so long as time is continuous, which as far as physicists know , it is , and all our physical evidence indicates it is continuous. So hamza and the other guy need to give another argument for why infinite chains of events are clearly possible in some situations but (they claim) not others.
kingjamie2 you're talking within the realms of the universe. We're talking before its creation. Who caused the universe? And then you would say who caused that cause and who caused that cause and it will go on infinitely unless you stop at a certain point: "the first cause".
We believe that the first cause has to be uncaused, cuz if he is caused as well then this chain of causes would be never-ending and the universe would never come to be! The fact that the universe exists and these events are happening is a logical proof of the fact that there was "a first cause". (unless ofc, you believe that the universe is eternal)
Sebastian, by the end of the video, agreed that its logical for there to be a first creator or an uncaused cause. He said its purely logical and anyone can rationally come to this conclusion without any external influence.
this is exactly the case because Hamza himself came to the conclusion of there being a creator two years prior to becoming muslim
I've been looking into Isam for a while and while I see very strong evidence ,I also seel reasons why it might not be the total truth.
Maybe it's clear but I can't see for looking.
Some of the Quran just doesn't ring true to me and I have a hard time understanding why God would be so bothered about us living a certain way.
We are nothing to an eternal entity and I don't understand why they would concern themselves with us .
Also it seems strange we have to live such a strict way but then can discard our wife and have the pleasure of beautiful untouched women with large pear shaped breasts in heaven.
But then I listen to Hamza and Mohammed Hijab and I can totally see their reasoning.
So I do find myself confused to be truthful.
I believe in a creator but at the same time I question if everything we think is true, is really true.
I am delighted to be amongst knowledgeable people trying to improve our living in this life and in the hereafter.
All my respect to brothers especially Hamza. In the same time, this guy is so respectful, he defend his opinion and I have no issue with that, I hope there is no ego involved here.
Allah said and I quoted some verse from Quran that may make who denying Creator (Allah) :
(21:30) "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"
(25:53) "And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition."
(25:62) "And it is He who has made the night and the day in succession for whoever desires to remember or desires gratitude."
(22:73) "O people, an example is presented, so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should steal away from them a [tiny] thing, they could not recover it from it [fly]. Weak are the pursuer and pursued."
When smart and intelligent minds collaborate. It truly is a beautiful sight and I have enjoyed viewing this talk. I wish Sebastian the best in his endeavors whether it’s into Islam or not. As long as your doing good my man mashallah. Hamza’s videos have made it to big Apple 😂😂.
Sebastian is actually brilliant. I liked him in MH’s video. May Allah reveal to him the absolute truth and bestow on him His guidance.
If only I had manners like him. 🤦🏻♀️
Read “ Edgar Allen Poe Descent into a maelstrom “. Long story short : a man is about to get caught in a whirlpool, vortex of a large body of water; and he so focused on the problem he can’t see the problem giving him
The solution. UNTIL FINALLY he decides to notice /acknowledge/become aware of a object that keeps getting sucked down and constantly reappearing so he gets close enough and attaches himself to it and survives the whirlpool.
God bless you Hamza. You naild it.
Sebastian is a very well mannered and respectful person, I really like how he discussed his views and took in what Hamza was saying, And Hamza could of been a little calmer to me though and as respectful as Sebastian was being, other than that very good discussion, I like Sebastian he’s a good guy 👍🏼
Great, intellectual discussion by brother Hamza and Imran
MashAllah.
Sebastian is a very polite, sincere and rational person, may Allah guide him .
I don't get his way of thinking, how on Earth infinite regression is not a problem?..
Kharisma A. It's so funny how he used a start point to solve the problem of infinite regression and then said there is no infinite regression problem.
exactly, they just change the whole paradigm to fit their logic ( which is a good logic in this case) to explain infinite regression... i dont know HOW they don't recognize that !
He alluded to why infinite chains of events are not a problem when he referred to xeno's paradox but for some reason did not fully elucidate the idea.
" if there is an infinite chain of events leading up to now then we would never get to now"
ok , in that case, our current moment contains events that were caused by events that happened half a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 3/4 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 7/8 of a second ago which were caused by events that happened 15/16 of a second ago, which were caused by events that happened 31/32 of a second ago.... oh look, there's an infinite chain of events between now and one second ago so I guess we never actually got to right now....
There is an infinite chain of events in any finite interval of time so long as time is continuous, which as far as physicists know , it is , and all our physical evidence indicates it is continuous. So hamza and the other guy need to give another argument for why infinite chains of events are clearly possible in some situations but (they claim) not others.
kingjamie2 in this situation, he’s limited infinity for some reason.
I think maybe because he doesn't understand the word "infinite" which not many people can get their heads around. May Allah give us all understanding including this young man here, ameen.
جزاكم الله خير
this is for my brother sebastian you seem like an intelligient smart rational young man and i think if you keep asking queations and doing your researsh i think you will find the truth i promise. I just don't want u to give up. all the love from morocco
There is existence. No one can deny this. Existence has always been there. From created existences (universe) to uncreated eternal existence (Allah).
very intelligent brother amza thanks you so much i learn lot from you. i love you all the way from Africa
If we think we can be like hamza. He's not that smart he only follow the islamic law. The difference is he thinks deeper and his willing to open everybodies mind to follow the truth. Islam is the way
The conversation shifted to weather the landing on the moon analogy is suitable to the uncaused cause of the universe or not. The question to Sebastian is if landing on the moon is 99.9% logical because you prove it wrong, and him saying is believing in uncaused cause is 100% logical "why don't you not believe in it"?
Faith Is The Substance Of Things Hoped For.. The Evidence of Which We cannot See.. Book Of HEBREW'S. Shalom.
Sebastian is just a great intellectual man!!! I like him.
Wasalaam, keep it coming, my bro
The reason that we exist means that someone started off the push of the domino. Allah already decided that we will exist and left us to decide either to believe or not. This is where it's an ongoing argument till the day of judgment 🙌🏻
Interesting video really enjoyed as usual
Jazakallahu khayr
Masha allah
ALLAH guide those whom he wills. If someone wants guidens he should be open minded and scincer then he will be guided.
Sick just sick next level brother Hamza
MaSha Allah
Hamza's sniper (15:35) algegory is falasious for 2 main reason:
First, The chain of command of a state is finite and has a starting point. If you have to regress, the
highest point you can reach is the head of the state. It is not an example of infinite regression.
And for the record, there is no analogy coming from the natural world you can take as example to build an argument on the infinite regression...
And the second, all western armies delegates the tactical decisions (i.e a sniper to take a shot) to lower commanding officers.
If anybody finds counter-evidence that shows that every snipers shots as to be cleared by the president/prime-minister, feel free to share the info...
Great discussion. I benefited a lot
44:15
Sebastian : Then What Are We Arguing About ? 😂😂😂
Brother, That Looked Like You Were Confused.
Good Going.
I think Hamza misunderstood the guy quite a lot. I like Hamza but he did not understand what he meant by logic. I think they actually agreed with each other most of the time but Hamza thought he was trying to disprove him somehow
Harzburgitic To begin with, I think Hamza came from the point of view that the agnostic guy was trying to disprove him and say that his reasons to believe are less valid which is what he misunderstood. In actuality the guy was saying your reasons are more logical compared to being empirical therefore your type of reasoning is different and most importantly NOT less valid. Logic is a process to get to to truth and has steps, like he said if the sky can only be red or blue and its not red then therefore it has to follow and be blue. But rejecting evidence like neil armstrong, nasa etc. Is not illogical it is unreasonable despite there being some observable evidence. Hamza is using illogical here as an adjective and synonym for unreasonable which is not what the agnost means by illogical (Hamzas meant rejecting good evidence is illogical when the guy is saying illogical would be not using the steps of logic like in that example). Now this is where theres misunderstanding from both. The logical reasoning and 'empirical reasoning' BOTH USE REASONS to believe man landed on moon (they both have reason NOT PROOF). The similarity is that reason is being used but the difference is most religious beliefs like why Allah (swt) exists is logical proof not empirical (because Allah is supernatural therefore the tools of science cant measure his exiatence). Other beliefs are often empirical/based on observation. Theres nothing wrong with being logical or empirical is what the guy is saying, hes just saying the type of reasoning is different but reasoning is still used to get to what you believe. He also goes on a tangent by saying logic is 100% therefore it is not belief but its not since the premises may be wrong.
Samad Islam
Assalamu Alaikum Brother please use paragraphs when typing large comments.
now that I just watched his discussion with Mohammad Tawheed, I think you are right. He is a sincere man. MAy Allah guide him
Excited for part 2
Are there any news about brother Sebastian??
Maria Serena
Yeah ... Sebastian, if you read this please come debate Hamza again.
I learned a lot from the discussion between you two.
Yeah he became Buddhist lol
khandaker naeem really?
Only human have an ilussion that something begins and ends.Truth is,that,all that exists is contemporary in its current form.and all things are constantly changing.Only constant in that are protons,electrons,and neutrons.
Can't wait to see the logical conclusion of this entropy
I sure would like to know what the people standing around listening were thinking.
Sebastian is very humble and decent, he does not speak arrogantly. I dont believe he is an atheist tho he is an agnostic and by looking at the other videos where he spoke with both Muhammads i would say that if he believed in god he would become a muslim and thats his position really.
Bro Sebastian is trying very hard to come up with something to argue about. Still he try to stay in realm of logic not just nonsensical argument. Its a good process to diminished doubts in the heart(stronger iman). May Allah guide him.
Allahu Akbar.
Great Vedio brother Hamza
May alah Reward You!!
بارك الله فيكم
He talked about entropy and he is right that it decrease by going forward in time in the universe. Example when you put a drop of color in a cup of water it diffuse into the entire cup by going forward in time. But actually he was thinking that the universe would have more chance to be created at the stade of it diffuse itself to be more uniform . So the problem is that he think that the universe have been created at the stade of how it is today and didn't evolve in time.
I would like to say to Sebastian that .. the silver lining, the whole idea of belief that it is, and always should be - a choice ..
And as I see it as a Muslim believing in God, that God made sure it would always be so.
See, as Sebastian and Hamza agreed in the beginning that emperical testing can't be applied to something beyond the realms of our physical universe, and that's how science basically works ..
Hadn't that been the case, and if we could, say, prove through science the existence of God, there would be no choice but to accept that God exists, right?
Instead God gave us "good reasons" to believe in him by sending messengers with books, and miracles to confirm their message, but in the same time left the ultimate choice to each and every one to accept or reject.
Mashallah good job Hamza brothers
Two very logical human beings
amazing video
Bro Hamza should take it a bit easy. Good manners mostly gets the point across not refutations.
3:159 _So by mercy from Allah, [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. _*_And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you._*_ So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him]._
quran.com/3/159
May Allah increase us all in good manners, ameen
lol I’m so dizzy 😵
Masha Allah love your videos bro
I love these debates when there's all three of them together (Hamza, Abbas and Imran).
Human knowledge is based on one or more of the following criteria:
- Suspicion شك (shakk)
- Prediction ظن (Dhann)
- Illusion وهم (Wahm)
- Ignorance جهل (jahl)
- Imitation تقليد (Tagleed)
- Scientific theories نظريات علمية
- Scientific facts حقائق علمية
Take languages as example, in languages there are names and there's attributes (isnaad) to these names which makes them useful.
Names without attributes are meaningless, take for example the word "Adam", the word itself means nothing. The word (generous) is also meaningless but when we say "Adam is generous" we're making a useful statement; namely attributing (Isnaading) generosity to Adam. But this statement maybe true and maybe false. So we have to ask the question: is Adam truly generous..??
If we're not sure, If the "yes(s)“ equals the "no(s)“ then this is called suspicion.
If the yes is heavier than the no then this is called prediction.
If the no is heavier than the yes then this is called illusion.
following..!
If the statement only says "Adam is generous" but with no external evidences to support it then that would be called ignorance.
So ignorance is not "not knowing" but saying something that lakes the evidence.
a claim with assurety but without (evidence/ Daleel) proof..!! is called imitation (Tagleed). which is essentially repeating -like a parrot- what others are saying without the mind to verify what's being said,
If everyone believes Adam is generous and we haven’t seen this in action then this is called Scientific theory. (ie. Pending confirmation.!)
Now if the statement "Adam is generous" has proof on it..!! then (ONLY THEN) it’s called Scientific fact "knowledge" (ilm).
So knowledge is defined as a Nisbah (a statement) which is (verifiable) and (has a proof)
So the confirmed realities are either imitation (Tagleed) or certainty.
Now after knowing the deference lets ask the question: does the Quran contradicts Scientific facts ie. TRUE knowledge..??
Answer: the Quran can contradict any other criteria (Nisbah) such as ignorance, suspicion, prediction, illusion.. etc but it can NEVER contradict anything proven to be a REAL knowledge (Ilm).
This is because the revealer of the Quran is the creator of the universe thus no scientific fact should contradict a Quranic fact. If there's something in the universe that we can't understand or explain now, it's because we’re either not fit enough or we do not have the necessary tools to understand it. Future generations maybe luckier.
Scientists (mainly atheists) continue using scientific theories as if they are scientific facts, a defacto. Even though they're still theories and lacking the evidence.
Bottomline once the claim has moved from theory into a reality only then we can put it in contests against the Qur’an.
Munther Bin Ahmad@facebook
translation from Sha'rawi audio lectures