The incidence of the stab is easy: it must be parallel to the direction of flight. For the wing, it will vary from 0º to some positive degrees. My Funglider (great little all purpose model) has a full moving stab too.
Good stuff! You’re changing the thrust line while changing the incidence. Much better to mount a large motor on the fuse and change one parameter at a time
I am so excited with this channel! those tests were amazing! I didn't expect that but after you explained, yeah, made complete sense! SO GLAD YOU ARE BACK !!!!!!!!! 👍🙂
I really enjoyed this. I had to teach myself some of this stuff a few years ago to make a viable Chitty Chitty Bang Bang flying car RC model, and did it without the benefit of being in school and having a young brain. Finally got the airfoil shape, incidence and CG figured out. The thrust angle was also important, especially as it had canard features and was a pusher. My solution for turning (I had similar problems to you) was to have the pusher motor with vectored thrust. This makes flying it a pretty hair raising experience! There are videos of the process on my youtube channel if you are interested. Looking forward to your future videos (the atlatl glider launcher looks sweet!)
I've seen a lot of people using Fusion recently and I definitely need to check it out. But, Onshape is free to everyone, which I find incredible. I'm certified in a few CAD softwares, and familiar with the interfaces of most of the others (Solidworks, Catia, AutoCAD Inventor, 123D, ProE) and Onshape has successfully combined all of the best characteristics from these programs without taking on any of their issues. I'm not sponsored by them at all, I just really agree with their mission.
As of today (05/Jul/2018) Onshape starts from STANDARD $1500 per user, per year. (www.onshape.com/cad-pricing). Overkill for hobbyists IMHO. Alternatives?! FreeCAD (www.freecadweb.org/), an Open Source product powerful enough for professional use.
Darn...OH PLEASE do more tests with this system but this time PLEASE do NOT rotate your horizontal stab to match the wing incidence every time. Keep the Horiontal stab at zero incidence or slight negative incidence as in a real aircraft... and test some angles from 1 to 3 degrees positive incidence on the wing, as well as slight negative wing incidence. The reason I ask is I'm a huge RC plane addict and I run into incidence questions/problems A LOT. I have tried slight negative wing incidence like some sailplane folks suggest (on a warbird) and it flew great until that first turn, then all hell broke loose...why? I have no idea. Great stuff thanks.
Love that video so much!! Wish there were more like that for new builders, this helped me make clear a lot more how this is working. I am designing an aerobatic airplane and because I will bot be able to adjust those incidence levels after, I am trying to get it right from the start. Wouldn't it be about the same to give no inc angles at both wing and elevator and then add some trim up?
I built a tiny powered plane, (converting a Multiplex Fox hand-throw glider), using just two servos, one for each wing, to change the angle of incidence from positive to negative values. I pivoted the wings on a carbon spar too, the idea was they could act as elevators and aileron, (elevons I guess). It was very hard to launch but I did get it to fly in the end, just not very well.
The Sky Buster! I love the experimenting. By the way, Pitching moment, coyld you do a video about that, how to find it and evaluate it? That would help my own efforts of design as I too am in school for aerospace.
The angle of incidence between the thrust line of the motors and the wing is zero in all the cases. Wouldn't it make more sense to mount the motors to the fuselage to check the effects of angle of incidence to the thrust line?
Do you think if you designed a fuse with less drag, the plane would fly at some ridiculous angle of incidence? Such as if you were able to design a similar plane with an arrow shaft as a fuselage instead. Would be tough to build, but would be a cool test to see if you could fly at your 30 degree AOI!
Yes definitely! You could build a profile plane with the wing and tail mounted at that angle of incidence, and since the fuselage is totally flat, it would just cut through the air with little drag. Unfortunately, this isn't very realistic and that's why Buster has a fuselage, to see what would happen if you made a real plane do this. But, I am thinking about building that profile plane to demonstrate the idea, for kicks and giggles!
This is awesome info, as I am just about to start my own foamy build, but much more lift from more surface area of a larger wing, but likely slower in flight which is what I'm looking for, ..What I noted is that your motor / prop selection is either very near or spot on what I have, 920kv motors x 4 , that run with a 3 to 4 s 1800 to 2200 mAh battery x 2, (a batt for the inboard motors, and 1 batt for the outboard) with 10 x 4.5 props, My first go around building a electric multi-motor, , plenty of gas/nitro glow experience going back to 1979.. I ran into an issue I'm hoping you have some insight on and willing to offer up advice? After soldering my new motor (first of four), the esc just beeps and the prop does a small jiggle at each beep or tone, is something I'm missing, as I hooked up an older 30 amp esc and the motor worked fine? I'm confused and ignorant, can you help? Seems it may be a esc programing issue, but one that I have no clue as to how to fix!?? (Spektrum dx8 2nd gen tx, spektrum receiver, made in china cheap esc's and motors... HELP! I have hardware but can't get it up! lol Thanks, Mike
can you test a mutiwing biwing 2 sets (4wings) and a tail set.. on your cargo plane with or without extra canards.. i need a cargo plane that wont stall or at least glide to landing on stall
Battery moment arm was only a minor factor for hi wing craft. For mid wing it wouldn't matter at all THE REAL REASON WAS FUSELAGE DOWNWARD LIFT & DRAG CENTER AROUND CG WHICH IS IN MIDDLE OF PLANE IE WAY BEHIND YOR PLANE CG
Then just an Armin wing or a KFm3 would work great. If this is a smaller plane (like a 1 meter wing) then it doesn't really matter (video about why coming out soon).
I didn't test this, but if you mounted a gyro in the fuselage then it would try to level the fuselage and not the wing. If you attached it to the wing then you still have the problem with drag from the fuselage preventing the plane from flying faster than its stall speed at that altitude. I am planning on adding some sensors to Buster in the future to collect more data though!
Oh ok, we were thinking of different gyros then. I thought you were talking about a gyro stabilizing board or receiver to prevent the plane from pitching wildly. I think having data logging would be really useful though!
These test are not really accurate....let me explain,you have wing mounted motors,that alone will make the plane pull up hard with that 30 degree angle...remember a motors thrust angle alone in front of rc plane dictates whether it pulls up,down,or level.....so in conclusion factoring those wing mounted motors with extreme thrust angle on them will have different results compared to front fuse mounted motor , the wing alone has a 30 degrees angle.....interesting test,video though.
U made same mistake that every failed project in history has in common Size matters-but in reverse.. All large scale prototypes were disaster. Always have smallest possible prototype to try out all phenomenas-Choose calm day for mico scale as analogus to windly conditions for life sized one; then scale up using Reynold no based scaling techniques
The incidence of the stab is easy: it must be parallel to the direction of flight. For the wing, it will vary from 0º to some positive degrees. My Funglider (great little all purpose model) has a full moving stab too.
Just came across your channel, really good stuff man!! Keep it up!!
Your videos are very very interesting presented in a very approachable way. Excellent.
Love this stuff, reading about it always made my head spin.
Good stuff! You’re changing the thrust line while changing the incidence. Much better to mount a large motor on the fuse and change one parameter at a time
After 4 year I watched you, lovely .........................
Awesome, thanks for sharing 👍
Hope to see you at Flite Fest!
That's incredible I learned a lot. I'm designing a plane at the moment
I am so excited with this channel!
those tests were amazing! I didn't expect that but after you explained, yeah, made complete sense!
SO GLAD YOU ARE BACK !!!!!!!!! 👍🙂
Thanks Nelson! I really appreciate it!
Very cool, and very happy you are back!
Brilliant video can wait to see more like it
I really enjoyed this. I had to teach myself some of this stuff a few years ago to make a viable Chitty Chitty Bang Bang flying car RC model, and did it without the benefit of being in school and having a young brain. Finally got the airfoil shape, incidence and CG figured out. The thrust angle was also important, especially as it had canard features and was a pusher. My solution for turning (I had similar problems to you) was to have the pusher motor with vectored thrust. This makes flying it a pretty hair raising experience! There are videos of the process on my youtube channel if you are interested. Looking forward to your future videos (the atlatl glider launcher looks sweet!)
Great job !!
Autodesk Fusion 360 is free for students. Its a great program I totally recommend it! 👍
And I'll see you at flite fest :)
I've seen a lot of people using Fusion recently and I definitely need to check it out. But, Onshape is free to everyone, which I find incredible. I'm certified in a few CAD softwares, and familiar with the interfaces of most of the others (Solidworks, Catia, AutoCAD Inventor, 123D, ProE) and Onshape has successfully combined all of the best characteristics from these programs without taking on any of their issues. I'm not sponsored by them at all, I just really agree with their mission.
That's cool! 👍
As of today (05/Jul/2018) Onshape starts from STANDARD $1500 per user, per year. (www.onshape.com/cad-pricing). Overkill for hobbyists IMHO. Alternatives?! FreeCAD (www.freecadweb.org/), an Open Source product powerful enough for professional use.
good plane choice for study
Awesome content! SUBSCRIBED!
Buster is a nice build, brother!
Your awesome thank you
2024 BUMP ... Go Buster Go
Nice project sir, i make similar model like yours but only 2 propeller and flying succesful.
Darn...OH PLEASE do more tests with this system but this time PLEASE do NOT rotate your horizontal stab to match the wing incidence every time. Keep the Horiontal stab at zero incidence or slight negative incidence as in a real aircraft... and test some angles from 1 to 3 degrees positive incidence on the wing, as well as slight negative wing incidence. The reason I ask is I'm a huge RC plane addict and I run into incidence questions/problems A LOT. I have tried slight negative wing incidence like some sailplane folks suggest (on a warbird) and it flew great until that first turn, then all hell broke loose...why? I have no idea. Great stuff thanks.
Fascinating
A new sub because of you coming back!!
Your videos are amazing and there so good quality!! Love it!
Love that video so much!! Wish there were more like that for new builders, this helped me make clear a lot more how this is working. I am designing an aerobatic airplane and because I will bot be able to adjust those incidence levels after, I am trying to get it right from the start. Wouldn't it be about the same to give no inc angles at both wing and elevator and then add some trim up?
I built a tiny powered plane, (converting a Multiplex Fox hand-throw glider), using just two servos, one for each wing, to change the angle of incidence from positive to negative values. I pivoted the wings on a carbon spar too, the idea was they could act as elevators and aileron, (elevons I guess). It was very hard to launch but I did get it to fly in the end, just not very well.
The Sky Buster! I love the experimenting. By the way, Pitching moment, coyld you do a video about that, how to find it and evaluate it? That would help my own efforts of design as I too am in school for aerospace.
Nice work! I wanted it to work so bad!
The angle of incidence between the thrust line of the motors and the wing is zero in all the cases. Wouldn't it make more sense to mount the motors to the fuselage to check the effects of angle of incidence to the thrust line?
How about photocopying a protractor and adding it to the side of the fuse for the tail and another for the wing saddle.
Lucas, I look forward to seeing you and Buster at Flite Fest 2017. Will you be creating Buster mods in the build tent?
Really,,,,, levelly!?!
_ DEVSTER _ yeah why not? Hahaha I never claimed to be good at grammer (or spelling apparently)
Do you think if you designed a fuse with less drag, the plane would fly at some ridiculous angle of incidence? Such as if you were able to design a similar plane with an arrow shaft as a fuselage instead. Would be tough to build, but would be a cool test to see if you could fly at your 30 degree AOI!
Yes definitely! You could build a profile plane with the wing and tail mounted at that angle of incidence, and since the fuselage is totally flat, it would just cut through the air with little drag. Unfortunately, this isn't very realistic and that's why Buster has a fuselage, to see what would happen if you made a real plane do this. But, I am thinking about building that profile plane to demonstrate the idea, for kicks and giggles!
@@LucasWeakley Any progress on the "profile plane " ? Post a link for a donation to it !
This is awesome info, as I am just about to start my own foamy build, but much more lift from more surface area of a larger wing, but likely slower in flight which is what I'm looking for, ..What I noted is that your motor / prop selection is either very near or spot on what I have, 920kv motors x 4 , that run with a 3 to 4 s 1800 to 2200 mAh battery x 2, (a batt for the inboard motors, and 1 batt for the outboard) with 10 x 4.5 props, My first go around building a electric multi-motor, , plenty of gas/nitro glow experience going back to 1979.. I ran into an issue I'm hoping you have some insight on and willing to offer up advice?
After soldering my new motor (first of four), the esc just beeps and the prop does a small jiggle at each beep or tone, is something I'm missing, as I hooked up an older 30 amp esc and the motor worked fine? I'm confused and ignorant, can you help? Seems it may be a esc programing issue, but one that I have no clue as to how to fix!?? (Spektrum dx8 2nd gen tx, spektrum receiver, made in china cheap esc's and motors... HELP! I have hardware but can't get it up! lol Thanks, Mike
can you test a mutiwing biwing 2 sets (4wings) and a tail set.. on your cargo plane with or without extra canards.. i need a cargo plane that wont stall or at least glide to landing on stall
do a series on flight mechanics and physics
Hi Lhcas were can I purchase the win g mount grid what company sells It,regardsTerry U/K.
Thought about kmf wing?
Battery moment arm was only a minor factor for hi wing craft. For mid wing it wouldn't matter at all
THE REAL REASON WAS FUSELAGE DOWNWARD LIFT & DRAG CENTER AROUND CG WHICH IS IN MIDDLE OF PLANE IE WAY BEHIND YOR PLANE CG
This guy looks like obi wan Kenobi from star wars revenge of the sith cool plane looks like a c-130 Hercules
Why not Catia for CAD? You can get it through Riddle
Yes I could, but I can't use it commercially. It's also a bit of a pain to use, in my opinion.
hey lucas, great work! just wanted to ask what airfoil would you suggest for high lift and medium aerobatics?
Do you plan on wanting to fly inverted for long stretches?
not for long. barrel rolls, immelman turn, hammerhead, and a 360° vertical loop.
Then just an Armin wing or a KFm3 would work great. If this is a smaller plane (like a 1 meter wing) then it doesn't really matter (video about why coming out soon).
thanks a lot really! waiting for the video
Muhammad Waqar you may use depron moulding technique as I taught you in class :p
no such word as levelly---its just level
beard game on point.
If you add a gyro ? And a data logger?
I didn't test this, but if you mounted a gyro in the fuselage then it would try to level the fuselage and not the wing. If you attached it to the wing then you still have the problem with drag from the fuselage preventing the plane from flying faster than its stall speed at that altitude. I am planning on adding some sensors to Buster in the future to collect more data though!
Lucas Weakley i think that the only purpose of the gyro is to record the angles not for the corections
Oh ok, we were thinking of different gyros then. I thought you were talking about a gyro stabilizing board or receiver to prevent the plane from pitching wildly. I think having data logging would be really useful though!
Lucas Weakley yes, arduino or somthing similars and openlog, it is cheaper and ready to run soo good luck!!!! :)
Why build a new design by guesswork, when there are hundreds of proven old timer designs for free?
These test are not really accurate....let me explain,you have wing mounted motors,that alone will make the plane pull up hard with that 30 degree angle...remember a motors thrust angle alone in front of rc plane dictates whether it pulls up,down,or level.....so in conclusion factoring those wing mounted motors with extreme thrust angle on them will have different results compared to front fuse mounted motor , the wing alone has a 30 degrees angle.....interesting test,video though.
U made same mistake that every failed project in history has in common
Size matters-but in reverse.. All large scale prototypes were disaster.
Always have smallest possible prototype to try out all phenomenas-Choose calm day for mico scale as analogus to windly conditions for life sized one; then scale up using Reynold no based scaling techniques