I love how different tools work and don't work for different people and needs. I have the M11, SL2 & SL2-S and just did a big commercial stills job attached to a video shoot and I used the SL2-S with the 24-70 for 95% of the job. I was in ~14 degrees F for 7 days crawling around in the snow and ice from sun up to sun down and the SL2-S output incredible images the client is super happy with. Shot over 7K images in sub freezing temps and it was rock solid not only with the images, but the reliability in that kind of stress test. But, the auto focus is 100% a limitation on the SL 2/S line and if you do need continuous focus I fully agree with you. My M11 & 50 M Summilux did give me some of my favorite images, but for this job, the M was not the right tool and the SL2-S delivered. I'm not touchy about the subject, and love your work, and it does sound like its the wrong tool for you and your needs, but just wanted to share a quick counterpoint and my experience over the last week as well. Keep up the great work Dave!!!
No doubt! I shoot the M nearly all the time so photography with the SL2S isn’t even something I was trying to do. With the video side, yeah… definitely need continuous for vlogging. But if I was behind the camera making films or shooting other subjects, it’s tough to beat it!
Totally agree! The clients LOVE the SL2-S images, and fully freaked out with the few I did shoot with the M11 and 50 Lux. That's just a special combo and we're both blessed to have that option in our bags! @@davidherring
Excuse me, sir! I haven’t actually ventured deep enough to videography to know my camera. So, my SL2-s, is the Atomos Ninja V good enough or it needs Atomos Ninja V Ultra? Will the SL2-s utilize the Ultra?
I understand that drawing attention on YT requires bold statements and exaggeration, but this is bordering nonsense. I’m using the Leica SL2 and SL2-S on almost a daily basis for fashion and beauty photography and the AF is more than able to handle that. The SL2-S is next to my M, also a camera for personal work incl. urban night photography under harsh conditions like snow blizzards. It’s perfect for that too and much better weather-sealed than any A7, I’ve owned. No, it’s not the same level AF-C as a Sony A7RV or A1, but the AF-S is more than good enough for most of us. What it doesn’t do well is ‘unmanned’ AF-C with eye-AF. You have a valid point there, but apart from YT-ers, very few people do that on a daily basis, let alone consider buying a Leica SL2 for that purpose.
I don’t create anything to “stand out” on UA-cam. I shared my honest thoughts, not something I manufactured to be noticed. If it works for you, great. It didn’t work for me. ✌🏼
I totally agree with you. I use my sl2s in af-s for street photography mostly and it works well enough. And it’s better for m glass too. I actually get more keepers with the sl2s with m glass as I can nail focus more often. I love my m11, but the rangefinder has gone off calibration so as a result i had one shoot where i only nailed focus when i stopped down…. It’s off to wetzlar for service under warranty.
Since I got the SL2-S a year ago, my Sony kit is collecting dust; my film cameras are also collecting dust. I love the feel of it, and how thoughtfully engineered it is. I'm shooting it only in manual focus, using Contax C/Y glass, and a couple Minolta MD/MC lenses, and really loving the results. I did try it with the Leica SL 35mm Summicron, and found the AF to work just fine for my photography. That said, it's so easy to use MF, that it seems pointless to us AF lenses (for photography anyway). 24MP is enough for me, since It's only a hobby. The payoff with 24MP is amazing low-light performance. If I did photo or video for a living, I'd probably use Sony.
This exquisite camera has proven to be nothing short of extraordinary, an artistic extension of my vision that I've passionately embraced for a delightful span of two years. In the wake of its presence, I bid adieu to my array of Sony equipment, for this masterpiece stands as the unrivaled epitome of visual sophistication. The color science embedded within its core is a symphony of unparalleled brilliance, painting my compositions with a richness that transcends the mundane. The output is not merely an image but a canvas of ethereal hues, each shade seamlessly interwoven into a tapestry of visual poetry. In essence, the camera's prowess manifests as a luscious, buttery-smooth experience, where every frame is a testament to the harmonious marriage of technology and artistry.
My workhorse for interior photography, 24MPX is well enough for everything digital as I do not print. Absolute beast and very reliable. Its heavy, not sure I would use it for street photography or anything handheld for a long time but its marvel in color rendering and its usability. When doing videos its usually studio shoot so no problem with AF at all. Works well on sport shoots if not using AFc but only AFs. I am not really a person of fast burst shooting. Overall, I am fine with quirks, it does the job and thats about it. I do believe most of YTubers need to create some content so switching system is the the way to go.
How big do you think that the photos that these guys take with their cameras are being printed? To put it straight, what the hell do they think they are shooting that warrants giant printing? I really would like to see an example of it, just to prove to myself that I am wrong.
@lensman5762 printing isn’t the issue. It’s commercial work and cropping. I can take a product shot that’s wider with a 50mm and also deliver a very pinched in photo at a high enough resolution as a detailed shot. Also, for tourism boards that want to put photos on the wall at your local airport, resolution matters.
FINALLY some honesty about a camera that makes no sense in 2023/2024. I have 2 M bodies and a Barnack and love Leica for the experience and feel and the SL feels great but is just not fit for purpose….
I just sold my SL2-S. Main reason: it was just too heavy and bulky. It took great photos, but I never ended up taking it with me far from home. And I really don’t need fancy video, the advanced video settings just confuse me. I’ll make do with the Q3 for video. Now I’m down to M11, MP, and Q3. Small and highly portable. Did the new SL3 change your mind at all?
Feeling, color, quality for SL2 and SL2s is amazing. SL2 is terrific but heavy. Hoping SL3 will be competitive and still maintain superiority in feel, color, quality. Personally, I really enjoy the interchangeability of the L-system (CL, SL2) with M-lenses as well. Going to Egypt and bringing the SL2, 24-90, 100-400 and TL 11-23. Don't do much video, so the contrast detect is more than good enough. Thanks Dave.
@@davidherring Agree w Eric, though I haven't looked as much at the SL2 vs S5 as the S1r and whatever Leica SL2. Seems like with both the reviews are similar to the Panasonic. S5ii or S5iix is the better choice in 2023 for phase-detect for video.
Thanks for the honesty. The SL2 does compete because of its design with Sony, Canon etc. unlike the M system and here the old tech really shows quickly its age. According to the rumors the SL3 might fix all your needs. M11/Q3 sensor with 60MP - might be true, since they already have the parts Phase detect AF - will also come, since Q3 already has it. The only thing they to make sure is the software. Right now the phase detect AF of the Q3 is still hit or miss compared to the Lumix S5II. Since Leica collap with Panasonic I was expecting phase detec AF on the Q3 same as on the S5II, but after 3 firmwares still not the same yet.
I mostly agree Dave. I love my SL2s and havent had issues with talking head videos but the AF is def lacking. I think the SL3 is going to be incredible. In the hand, its fantastic, and I dont mind the MP. 24 is plenty for my work. I do miss my rangefinders, and have considered to go back to an M body but with a heavy heart to list my SL2s lol. Keep em coming man!.
Yeah...I agree with you on pretty much all points, except for photography. I think the distinction with this camera is that it's setup more like a cinema camera then a video camera, and I think that's the big difference between the SL2-S and the Sony's (minus maybe the FX series bodies from Sony). They are amazing as a cinema camera when putting beautiful cinema manual glass or even the M glass on it, where you are pulling focus and shooting it as a filmmaker, to your point. But if you are looking for a self-focusing video camera, there is nothing out there better than the Sony period especially for vlogging. Sony just wrote the book on that and they've even started dedicating cameras for just that type of application. If I were shooting myself for the purposes of self recording videos, I would stick with Sony, but if you have any intention of shooting films and being behind the camera, I would argue you might get better results on the Leica. The video parameters are geared more toward a cinema camera like experience, and can you imagine mounting PL Anamorphic or even Leica Cinema glass on that camera? At a used price of around $3300, I think it's the perfect cinema camera for Leica. Additionally, I actually enjoyed shooting photos on the SL2-S a lot. The AF sucks, but shooting manual M lenses was quite nice with faster glass like ones with f1.2, and it's optimized to work with M lenses, whereas wider focal ranges, fall apart when adapted to cameras like Sony. I kinda see the SL2-S as a compliment to the M cameras for the more difficult to nail focus M lenses. I also found the images to be quote sharp and detailed, and was often surprised how close it felt to my M11-P or Q3's image quality. With that said, if the experience doesn't give you joy, then you should totally ditch it! Because at the end of the day it's how it feels. I'm in a conundrum where I own Sony and Leica as well and as I shoot more Leica, the Sony is starting to feel boring, but I shoot event photography professionally, and need fast accurate AF for my clients as well as very good high iso performance. The SL2-S has one of the best sensors for lowlight but the AF blows in low light. So at the moment, the SL2-S is out for me.
Totally feel every word of this! I really love the behind the camera experience, but trying to determine what I’m actually doing right now is challenging. I held onto my Sony kit for video, and I’m glad I did. But as I shared in my video, the Leica has just much better, more true to life colors. Definitely an elevated experience behind the camera.
@@davidherring Have you ever thought about buying a DJI RS3 Pro with the Lidar? Or just the Lidar (I think you can use it without the RS3 now). I do 98% of photo with my SL2, but I've always had in mind that when I would start marking more videos, I would take an anamorphic lens and the RS3/Lidar.
@@alexjoxcsHow would the RS3 affect focus though? LiDAR could follow position but unless the DJI can speak to either the lens or a follow focus that is attached to the lens I’m not sure how that would add benefit
@@petereprice the LiDar operates the follow focus motor. It's its main mode of operation, since it was designed for cine lenses. I think there's only Panasonic that started recently doing an integration, so that the LiDAR talks to the AF lens (don't quote me on this though). RS3 will not doing anything in regards to AF, it's just that you needed it for LiDAR until recently, when they released the "brain" module as a standalone.
I share your love for taking photographs without EVF when possible. I use an M11, an M3, a Nikon F3, a Rolleiflex TLR, a Fuji folding camera. I had the SL2S and sold it. The EVF was pretty good as was the manual focus experience. I am an old school focus and recompose guy, so the autofocus was meh for me. In the end I went with the Nikon Zf because it shaved a little off the size and weight. And then I met the Techart autofocus M to Z adapter. That plus the Zf autofocus is pretty amazing. Content creators may like the flippy screen. I can take it or leave it, and like to flip it totally closed.
Agreed…I tried it…felt amazing and love the colors on the video. I felt the 24mo were light for my taste and use. I also like a little more dynamic range to be able to shoot portraits backlit and be able to under expose the subject and bring it up in post. Something that the Sony did amazingly.
I can already see the video "The SL3 finally made me switch (sorry Sony)" coming just after the launch of the SL3 on March 7th. Joking aside, love your videos and have just recently picked up my first M camera and love it!!
@@davidherring haha true true, hopefully with the new SL3/s Leica might twist your arm. But like you said in the review the Sonys AF is too good to ignore
Completely disagree with you on your view of the SL2 autofocus, at least when talking about photos. Just lost kind of interest in your views, as I feel this was much too superficial to take it as a serious review. However, I am sure that there will be a number of Leica haters and pure amateurs which will be delighted with this post.
I’m not a Leica hater. I’m deep in the Leica ecosystem and it’s my primary method of working. Sorry you lost interest, just giving my honest opinion about the autofocus and how it doesn’t work well for my uses. ✌🏼
He has to release this in time for the sl3 so the algorithm bumps his video up the charts. Coincidence a number of youtub o graphers made sl2 videos before release. No
I`m a Leica shooter (have been for 30 years) and I have an SL2s .The Af isn`t really good enough when things start moving other than that (apart from the weight) its a lovely camera .To the extent that I`ve held on to mine when really I should have traded it in .
My AF hit rate on both my SL2S and SL2 is in the high 90s. I can only think of one occasion when I had to switch to MF to get the SL2S to focus on the eyes and not the leaves in front of my subject. But your work is different. So you gotta do what you gotta do. Pick the best tool for the job.
Hi, I discovered your videos while researching to change my camera for something better adapted to do a bit of video, I'm still hesitating between the SL2s and the A7rv... I mainly take travel, street and car photos for pleasure and real estate for work, I don't need cutting-edge technology and the Leica ecosystem appeals to me, but when you see the Sony's performance, it makes you want to... As someone who owns both, what do you think would be the most versatile and, above all, condition-resistant camera possible?
Hey Dave, my comment as a SL2S user for photography (not video) I love this camera and will look to buy another one (used). 1/ 24Mpix not enough ? the Flagship Sony Alpha 9ii and 9iii are 24Mpix, the revered Canon R3 is 24Mpix, not to mention R6 Z6 Zf S5ii S1H. I feel these 24Mp way enough in 2024 still, easy to edit, never needed to deliver more and if needed Topaz can increase to 100Mpix 2/ Autofocus ? yes this is the weak point compared to Sony Canon Nikon, if you value eye AF better go there 3/ The EVF is best of the best, too bad you don't use it 4/ adapting M lenses with it is amazing but of course next month the SL3 comes with 60Mpix and phase detect AF so you'll be ok the price might be 8k thus... Look at it at another angle -> it's the cheapest Leica, entry level to a dream world to young photographers just for this it's a great camera ! Also ... the SL2-S Reporter Edition !! Most beautiful camera ever !! Lol
Sony a7RC paired with M glass is way better for many reasons than an SL with M glass. You get similar range finder experience, plus the latest advances in AF and video codecs. I almost jumped on board to get an SL with the Black Friday discounts but I’m glad I didn’t. Even if Leica releases an SL3 I think the A7CR plus M glass still be a better deal
I love my SL2-S. What are your settings for focus in video mode? In my experience, setting Eye/Face focus mode and AFc will work well. iAF doesn't work well, and AFs won't track movement at all.
They (Panasonic, which the SL system actually is) went with contrast AF because as opposed to PDAF it doesn’t compromise image quality (same is true for IBIS btw). But as they eventually realised that most people don’t care about best quality possible and prioritise convenience I’m pretty sure the next generation will feature PDAF (like all current Panasonics do) and people will be happy as long as the image quality is just good enough. I just hope Leica will stick to their promise and keep the M system clean.
@@davidherring You would have to directly compare the same sensor generation with one having PDAF implemented while the other does not, to even have a chance of distinguishing the impact. The only case I'm aware of is the Q3 having the PDAF iteration of the same sensor as the M11 has without PDAF, and it has been mentioned already on Red Dot Forum (I believe) that the Q3 sensor does not quite reach the performance level of the M11. Apart from that manufacturers bacame really good with their software for it not having a huge impact on the outcome. But still, in the end it's just a workaround for a real problem and the fact that you're trading image creating pixels for focus acquiring pixels is remaining true. Initially there have been a lot of issues with banding caused by PDAF (across different brands), which had to be fixed with FW updates, but hiding image defects with software is not exactly my conception of getting the best performance out of the sensor. If I have to choose image quality or convenience in my photography tools I will go for image quality all the time (although I'm using manual focus only for all my projects and I understand that there's a need for reliable AF as well). The problem is that most customers are not even aware of the downsides of different technologies (as in the case of IBIS as well) and it's more common (and easy) to compare spec sheets than it is to compare the quality of images. It is only when you outgrow your camera's capabilities when you start researching it's limitations and questioning the design decisions being made.
I think instead of being brand loyal. My philosophy is use the right tool for the right job. I own both Sony and Leica. Sony is more of a work horse camera for tough scenarios and circumstances. I like Leica more for stationary jobs and more easier to handle situations. Both great products for different reasons. Color output definitely goes to Leica along with the joy & experience of shooting.
I imagine a Lumix S5Xii could be a solution since it's an L-mount system? I'm also looking at adjusting my gear more towards the Leica ecosystem in some ways
I know this is an old video, but if you want to use Leica glass on a hybrid camera, wouldn't the Panasonic Lumix S5II or S5IIx be the fix since it's basically the same image camera with the addition of phase detect AF and probably the same 24MP sensor?
I’m not very optimistic about the autofocus coming with the SL3. Just did a toddler shoot with the Q3 last night at f1.7 and didn’t get a single photo with the eyes sharp. Instead it focused on the eyebrows. My old A7RV would have gotten it perfect.
To be quite honest a Leica SL2s with m lens adapter and 24-70 SL lens seems a bit overkill for Vlogging. There are much more specific tools for just that at fraction of cost. I understand the brand recognition reasoning however if you know Leica youll know their target audience for their tools aren’t being used to Vlog.
6:11 Hey Dave. News Flash. Leica sources most of their technology from Panasonic - I doubt Leica develops anything related to auto-focus in house themselves. As such, the focus system on the SL cameras is following (e.g., trailing) what Panasonic does on their S5 line. When Leica introduces the SL3 generation you can expect it to have the same phase detect focus system that Panasonic introduced with the S5II.
Before you totally ditch it all, check out a panasonic body for video. I don't do video, but I'm thinking you could hold on to your L-mount glass until the SL-3 shows up. I have an SL2-S but I use it for photos, and I have a bunch of sigma lenses, which are awesome. No actual leica lenses.
love hate with my SL2S, i use canon for work but Leica is my playtime camera with M lenses. The main reason besides autofocus I couldn't use Leica for work is Repairs! Mine has been getting fixed for over 5 months, I'm sorry but that is not a professionals tool. But I did order a SL3 :)
Hi, finish recently encountered a very troublesome problem, my m11 often crashes when I look back at the photos, leica staff told me to replace the sd card, I'm currently using a sony sd memory card, I'd like to ask you what brand of sd card you are currently using and their model !
For photos af is more than good enough, I make extensive portraits and it rarely missed focus. For video it is a bit different, I switched to an external monitor and use manual focus. and it works fine
Thanks for the vid. For me, I have been exposed to Sony for video as well so everything I try afterwards will have to give me that minimum level of functionality.
Ridiculous, megapixels don’t mean anything…. I agree with you about the autofocus…. It’s no good no matter how I try. On vintage glass for photography is awesome
M shooter although I do have an SL2s (and a CL ) .I found the grip very uncomfortable .Hands were sore at the end of the day. I also found the AF very poor. I do a lot of equestrian work and the AF just isn`t reliable . Because of that , other than the 24/70 , I haven`t invested in any of the native SL glass. It is also in my opinion unnecessarily heavy .I tend to gravitate towards my M4 BP or 246 and for a compact set up my CL with its super lenses or shoot it with M glass.
❤👍🔔 thanks for your videos. I have only one hand left, so i have to take the SL. M is too hard to work with. I am waiting for your next videos, greets from germany. Carsten, Villa Petersberg
The same YTers who complain about the SL2-S AF will make excuses for M rangefinder calibration or MF challenges with a system that costs 2x. ie, Dave, your shots from the pumpkin patch @ f/1.4 looked pretty rough.
With the SL2-S, I expect usable autofocus...because it is an autofocus camera. With the M, if I fail, it's on me - not the tech. Thanks for the comment and feedback.
@@davidherring was it just for video, or also stills? I honestly really curious how you can get usable results at 60MP on an M11 at low aperture. I have been in every system except Nikon and currently own an SL2-s, Q2 and A7RV. Sony AF is hands-down but I hate the look. SL2-s gives me great stills and I rarely miss focus.
@@davidherring Makes sense, never used it for video. Super impressive skate parks shots. Looks like you got the hang of MF wide open. Love your content, keep up the great work!
I only do photography and used it with wide angle and hard-to-focus M lenses. As long as cropping is not required, 24 MP is good enough for me. Sometimes I found spot focusing mode is more accurate with the SL lenses.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah I’d agree, if I never cropped then 24mp would be fine but I shoot horizontal 90% of the time and sometimes punch in vertically. Then it kind of falls apart.
If you want to be a cinematographer just buy a Red and ARRI camera ... ops🤦♂ sorry they not allow you to autofocus... not even has the stabilisation ... good luck 😅
I love how different tools work and don't work for different people and needs. I have the M11, SL2 & SL2-S and just did a big commercial stills job attached to a video shoot and I used the SL2-S with the 24-70 for 95% of the job. I was in ~14 degrees F for 7 days crawling around in the snow and ice from sun up to sun down and the SL2-S output incredible images the client is super happy with. Shot over 7K images in sub freezing temps and it was rock solid not only with the images, but the reliability in that kind of stress test. But, the auto focus is 100% a limitation on the SL 2/S line and if you do need continuous focus I fully agree with you. My M11 & 50 M Summilux did give me some of my favorite images, but for this job, the M was not the right tool and the SL2-S delivered. I'm not touchy about the subject, and love your work, and it does sound like its the wrong tool for you and your needs, but just wanted to share a quick counterpoint and my experience over the last week as well. Keep up the great work Dave!!!
No doubt! I shoot the M nearly all the time so photography with the SL2S isn’t even something I was trying to do. With the video side, yeah… definitely need continuous for vlogging. But if I was behind the camera making films or shooting other subjects, it’s tough to beat it!
Totally agree! The clients LOVE the SL2-S images, and fully freaked out with the few I did shoot with the M11 and 50 Lux. That's just a special combo and we're both blessed to have that option in our bags! @@davidherring
The sL2s it’s rock solid.
My work horse.
Excuse me, sir! I haven’t actually ventured deep enough to videography to know my camera. So, my SL2-s, is the Atomos Ninja V good enough or it needs Atomos Ninja V Ultra? Will the SL2-s utilize the Ultra?
I understand that drawing attention on YT requires bold statements and exaggeration, but this is bordering nonsense. I’m using the Leica SL2 and SL2-S on almost a daily basis for fashion and beauty photography and the AF is more than able to handle that. The SL2-S is next to my M, also a camera for personal work incl. urban night photography under harsh conditions like snow blizzards. It’s perfect for that too and much better weather-sealed than any A7, I’ve owned.
No, it’s not the same level AF-C as a Sony A7RV or A1, but the AF-S is more than good enough for most of us. What it doesn’t do well is ‘unmanned’ AF-C with eye-AF. You have a valid point there, but apart from YT-ers, very few people do that on a daily basis, let alone consider buying a Leica SL2 for that purpose.
I don’t create anything to “stand out” on UA-cam. I shared my honest thoughts, not something I manufactured to be noticed. If it works for you, great. It didn’t work for me. ✌🏼
I totally agree with you. I use my sl2s in af-s for street photography mostly and it works well enough. And it’s better for m glass too. I actually get more keepers with the sl2s with m glass as I can nail focus more often. I love my m11, but the rangefinder has gone off calibration so as a result i had one shoot where i only nailed focus when i stopped down…. It’s off to wetzlar for service under warranty.
Since I got the SL2-S a year ago, my Sony kit is collecting dust; my film cameras are also collecting dust. I love the feel of it, and how thoughtfully engineered it is. I'm shooting it only in manual focus, using Contax C/Y glass, and a couple Minolta MD/MC lenses, and really loving the results. I did try it with the Leica SL 35mm Summicron, and found the AF to work just fine for my photography. That said, it's so easy to use MF, that it seems pointless to us AF lenses (for photography anyway). 24MP is enough for me, since It's only a hobby. The payoff with 24MP is amazing low-light performance. If I did photo or video for a living, I'd probably use Sony.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, for my workflow and work load, I unfortunately need a snappier autofocus.
This exquisite camera has proven to be nothing short of extraordinary, an artistic extension of my vision that I've passionately embraced for a delightful span of two years. In the wake of its presence, I bid adieu to my array of Sony equipment, for this masterpiece stands as the unrivaled epitome of visual sophistication. The color science embedded within its core is a symphony of unparalleled brilliance, painting my compositions with a richness that transcends the mundane. The output is not merely an image but a canvas of ethereal hues, each shade seamlessly interwoven into a tapestry of visual poetry. In essence, the camera's prowess manifests as a luscious, buttery-smooth experience, where every frame is a testament to the harmonious marriage of technology and artistry.
Thanks for sharing! Glad its worked out for you.
I agree with you. I like the camera for photography, the photography is really good you need vintage glass though to really capture its magic.
For sure!
The color grade on this video is slick... I like it.
Thanks! Phantom LUTS + Dehancer 💪🏼
My workhorse for interior photography, 24MPX is well enough for everything digital as I do not print. Absolute beast and very reliable. Its heavy, not sure I would use it for street photography or anything handheld for a long time but its marvel in color rendering and its usability. When doing videos its usually studio shoot so no problem with AF at all. Works well on sport shoots if not using AFc but only AFs. I am not really a person of fast burst shooting. Overall, I am fine with quirks, it does the job and thats about it. I do believe most of YTubers need to create some content so switching system is the the way to go.
Thanks for sharing!
How big do you think that the photos that these guys take with their cameras are being printed? To put it straight, what the hell do they think they are shooting that warrants giant printing? I really would like to see an example of it, just to prove to myself that I am wrong.
@lensman5762 printing isn’t the issue. It’s commercial work and cropping. I can take a product shot that’s wider with a 50mm and also deliver a very pinched in photo at a high enough resolution as a detailed shot. Also, for tourism boards that want to put photos on the wall at your local airport, resolution matters.
FINALLY some honesty about a camera that makes no sense in 2023/2024. I have 2 M bodies and a Barnack and love Leica for the experience and feel and the SL feels great but is just not fit for purpose….
Agreed! Thanks for the comment.
I wouldn’t say it makes no sense hard stop. It makes no sense IF you’re in front of the camera. If you’re behind it, it’s brilliant.
@BrandonTalbot 100%
I just sold my SL2-S. Main reason: it was just too heavy and bulky. It took great photos, but I never ended up taking it with me far from home. And I really don’t need fancy video, the advanced video settings just confuse me. I’ll make do with the Q3 for video. Now I’m down to M11, MP, and Q3. Small and highly portable. Did the new SL3 change your mind at all?
The SL3 looks amazing, but I’m looking for a video camera. The specs of the SL3 are definitely for photography. Holding out for the SL3S!
Feeling, color, quality for SL2 and SL2s is amazing. SL2 is terrific but heavy. Hoping SL3 will be competitive and still maintain superiority in feel, color, quality. Personally, I really enjoy the interchangeability of the L-system (CL, SL2) with M-lenses as well. Going to Egypt and bringing the SL2, 24-90, 100-400 and TL 11-23. Don't do much video, so the contrast detect is more than good enough. Thanks Dave.
I think for photos it would be fine. That’s why my point with the camera regarding photos was the lower-res than what I’m use to. Thanks for sharing!
Phase detect was left out because it’s a Panasonic S5 in a fancy shell.
That shell makes all the difference then.
@@davidherring I’m just saying the AF tech is rumored to be shared with Panasonic. The SL3 will likely have phase detect like the S5.2
@@davidherring Agree w Eric, though I haven't looked as much at the SL2 vs S5 as the S1r and whatever Leica SL2. Seems like with both the reviews are similar to the Panasonic. S5ii or S5iix is the better choice in 2023 for phase-detect for video.
Yup.@@ericrjennings
My all-time favourite camera for grip and ergonomics has to be my Canon EOS 1, and that's why I stayed true to Canon for so many years.
Canon does have a good feeling in the hands.
Thanks for the honesty. The SL2 does compete because of its design with Sony, Canon etc. unlike the M system and here the old tech really shows quickly its age.
According to the rumors the SL3 might fix all your needs.
M11/Q3 sensor with 60MP - might be true, since they already have the parts
Phase detect AF - will also come, since Q3 already has it.
The only thing they to make sure is the software. Right now the phase detect AF of the Q3 is still hit or miss compared to the Lumix S5II. Since Leica collap with Panasonic I was expecting phase detec AF on the Q3 same as on the S5II, but after 3 firmwares still not the same yet.
Yeah, we’ll see what happens. I think I’m just going to stick to my M for photography and remain with Sony for AF and video.
I’m 6’8 with size 17 shoes. This is the best feeling camera I’ve ever used.
Can’t beat that design!
That pro res raw is soooo underrated. And that’s an understatement. Trust me!
Haven’t tried raw video yet.
I mostly agree Dave. I love my SL2s and havent had issues with talking head videos but the AF is def lacking. I think the SL3 is going to be incredible. In the hand, its fantastic, and I dont mind the MP. 24 is plenty for my work. I do miss my rangefinders, and have considered to go back to an M body but with a heavy heart to list my SL2s lol. Keep em coming man!.
Thanks for sharing! I’m at about 60/40 talking head either in focus or not/breathing. But that’s still considerable lost time, unfortunately.
I completely agree. @@davidherring
Yeah...I agree with you on pretty much all points, except for photography. I think the distinction with this camera is that it's setup more like a cinema camera then a video camera, and I think that's the big difference between the SL2-S and the Sony's (minus maybe the FX series bodies from Sony). They are amazing as a cinema camera when putting beautiful cinema manual glass or even the M glass on it, where you are pulling focus and shooting it as a filmmaker, to your point.
But if you are looking for a self-focusing video camera, there is nothing out there better than the Sony period especially for vlogging. Sony just wrote the book on that and they've even started dedicating cameras for just that type of application. If I were shooting myself for the purposes of self recording videos, I would stick with Sony, but if you have any intention of shooting films and being behind the camera, I would argue you might get better results on the Leica. The video parameters are geared more toward a cinema camera like experience, and can you imagine mounting PL Anamorphic or even Leica Cinema glass on that camera? At a used price of around $3300, I think it's the perfect cinema camera for Leica.
Additionally, I actually enjoyed shooting photos on the SL2-S a lot. The AF sucks, but shooting manual M lenses was quite nice with faster glass like ones with f1.2, and it's optimized to work with M lenses, whereas wider focal ranges, fall apart when adapted to cameras like Sony. I kinda see the SL2-S as a compliment to the M cameras for the more difficult to nail focus M lenses. I also found the images to be quote sharp and detailed, and was often surprised how close it felt to my M11-P or Q3's image quality. With that said, if the experience doesn't give you joy, then you should totally ditch it! Because at the end of the day it's how it feels.
I'm in a conundrum where I own Sony and Leica as well and as I shoot more Leica, the Sony is starting to feel boring, but I shoot event photography professionally, and need fast accurate AF for my clients as well as very good high iso performance. The SL2-S has one of the best sensors for lowlight but the AF blows in low light. So at the moment, the SL2-S is out for me.
Totally feel every word of this! I really love the behind the camera experience, but trying to determine what I’m actually doing right now is challenging. I held onto my Sony kit for video, and I’m glad I did. But as I shared in my video, the Leica has just much better, more true to life colors. Definitely an elevated experience behind the camera.
@@davidherring Have you ever thought about buying a DJI RS3 Pro with the Lidar? Or just the Lidar (I think you can use it without the RS3 now).
I do 98% of photo with my SL2, but I've always had in mind that when I would start marking more videos, I would take an anamorphic lens and the RS3/Lidar.
@alexjowx if I’m honest with you I didn’t even know that’s a thing 😂 Thanks for sharing!
@@alexjoxcsHow would the RS3 affect focus though? LiDAR could follow position but unless the DJI can speak to either the lens or a follow focus that is attached to the lens I’m not sure how that would add benefit
@@petereprice the LiDar operates the follow focus motor. It's its main mode of operation, since it was designed for cine lenses.
I think there's only Panasonic that started recently doing an integration, so that the LiDAR talks to the AF lens (don't quote me on this though).
RS3 will not doing anything in regards to AF, it's just that you needed it for LiDAR until recently, when they released the "brain" module as a standalone.
I share your love for taking photographs without EVF when possible. I use an M11, an M3, a Nikon F3, a Rolleiflex TLR, a Fuji folding camera. I had the SL2S and sold it. The EVF was pretty good as was the manual focus experience. I am an old school focus and recompose guy, so the autofocus was meh for me. In the end I went with the Nikon Zf because it shaved a little off the size and weight. And then I met the Techart autofocus M to Z adapter. That plus the Zf autofocus is pretty amazing. Content creators may like the flippy screen. I can take it or leave it, and like to flip it totally closed.
Thanks for sharing! M all the way!
Agreed…I tried it…felt amazing and love the colors on the video. I felt the 24mo were light for my taste and use. I also like a little more dynamic range to be able to shoot portraits backlit and be able to under expose the subject and bring it up in post. Something that the Sony did amazingly.
Thanks for sharing!
I can already see the video "The SL3 finally made me switch (sorry Sony)" coming just after the launch of the SL3 on March 7th. Joking aside, love your videos and have just recently picked up my first M camera and love it!!
I've see the SL3, I can say it's better, but won't come close to his Sony in AF!!
Haha I would never write that title and honestly don’t think I’m done with Sony.
@@davidherring haha true true, hopefully with the new SL3/s Leica might twist your arm. But like you said in the review the Sonys AF is too good to ignore
Completely disagree with you on your view of the SL2 autofocus, at least when talking about photos. Just lost kind of interest in your views, as I feel this was much too superficial to take it as a serious review. However, I am sure that there will be a number of Leica haters and pure amateurs which will be delighted with this post.
I’m not a Leica hater. I’m deep in the Leica ecosystem and it’s my primary method of working. Sorry you lost interest, just giving my honest opinion about the autofocus and how it doesn’t work well for my uses. ✌🏼
@@davidherring No, I know that you are not a Leica hater. I was just surprised about your view on the SL2.
He has to release this in time for the sl3 so the algorithm bumps his video up the charts. Coincidence a number of youtub o graphers made sl2 videos before release. No
@angellondian7628 what if I told you I didn’t care at all about any algo and I just made the videos I want? ✌🏼
I`m a Leica shooter (have been for 30 years) and I have an SL2s .The Af isn`t really good enough when things start moving other than that (apart from the weight) its a lovely camera .To the extent that I`ve held on to mine when really I should have traded it in .
My AF hit rate on both my SL2S and SL2 is in the high 90s. I can only think of one occasion when I had to switch to MF to get the SL2S to focus on the eyes and not the leaves in front of my subject. But your work is different. So you gotta do what you gotta do. Pick the best tool for the job.
I was using the SL2-S for video, and the breathing was too much. Photography wasn't as bad, but it definitely can't handle autofocus for video.
Hi, I discovered your videos while researching to change my camera for something better adapted to do a bit of video, I'm still hesitating between the SL2s and the A7rv...
I mainly take travel, street and car photos for pleasure and real estate for work, I don't need cutting-edge technology and the Leica ecosystem appeals to me, but when you see the Sony's performance, it makes you want to...
As someone who owns both, what do you think would be the most versatile and, above all, condition-resistant camera possible?
A7RV all day long. Eventually sold the SLS2 because the autofocus was so poor on it compared to Sony.
Hey Dave, my comment as a SL2S user for photography (not video) I love this camera and will look to buy another one (used). 1/ 24Mpix not enough ? the Flagship Sony Alpha 9ii and 9iii are 24Mpix, the revered Canon R3 is 24Mpix, not to mention R6 Z6 Zf S5ii S1H. I feel these 24Mp way enough in 2024 still, easy to edit, never needed to deliver more and if needed Topaz can increase to 100Mpix 2/ Autofocus ? yes this is the weak point compared to Sony Canon Nikon, if you value eye AF better go there 3/ The EVF is best of the best, too bad you don't use it 4/ adapting M lenses with it is amazing but of course next month the SL3 comes with 60Mpix and phase detect AF so you'll be ok the price might be 8k thus... Look at it at another angle -> it's the cheapest Leica, entry level to a dream world to young photographers just for this it's a great camera ! Also ... the SL2-S Reporter Edition !! Most beautiful camera ever !! Lol
I don’t disagree. Just for the work I do, 24mp isn’t enough. But I stand by the lacking autofocus. Tough sell!
Sony a7RC paired with M glass is way better for many reasons than an SL with M glass. You get similar range finder experience, plus the latest advances in AF and video codecs. I almost jumped on board to get an SL with the Black Friday discounts but I’m glad I didn’t. Even if Leica releases an SL3 I think the A7CR plus M glass still be a better deal
I haven’t had great results adapting M lenses onto Sony. They loose a lot of contrast compared to M on M or M on SL.
@@davidherring that could be the mount adapter you use. I use the K&F Concept and works like a charm. No issue with contrast. Try it out if you can
I love my SL2-S. What are your settings for focus in video mode? In my experience, setting Eye/Face focus mode and AFc will work well. iAF doesn't work well, and AFs won't track movement at all.
iAF but also tried AFc and still had issues.
They (Panasonic, which the SL system actually is) went with contrast AF because as opposed to PDAF it doesn’t compromise image quality (same is true for IBIS btw). But as they eventually realised that most people don’t care about best quality possible and prioritise convenience I’m pretty sure the next generation will feature PDAF (like all current Panasonics do) and people will be happy as long as the image quality is just good enough. I just hope Leica will stick to their promise and keep the M system clean.
I have never felt pdaf compromised any image quality for me with Sony. My experience, at least.
@@davidherring You would have to directly compare the same sensor generation with one having PDAF implemented while the other does not, to even have a chance of distinguishing the impact. The only case I'm aware of is the Q3 having the PDAF iteration of the same sensor as the M11 has without PDAF, and it has been mentioned already on Red Dot Forum (I believe) that the Q3 sensor does not quite reach the performance level of the M11. Apart from that manufacturers bacame really good with their software for it not having a huge impact on the outcome. But still, in the end it's just a workaround for a real problem and the fact that you're trading image creating pixels for focus acquiring pixels is remaining true. Initially there have been a lot of issues with banding caused by PDAF (across different brands), which had to be fixed with FW updates, but hiding image defects with software is not exactly my conception of getting the best performance out of the sensor. If I have to choose image quality or convenience in my photography tools I will go for image quality all the time (although I'm using manual focus only for all my projects and I understand that there's a need for reliable AF as well). The problem is that most customers are not even aware of the downsides of different technologies (as in the case of IBIS as well) and it's more common (and easy) to compare spec sheets than it is to compare the quality of images. It is only when you outgrow your camera's capabilities when you start researching it's limitations and questioning the design decisions being made.
I think instead of being brand loyal. My philosophy is use the right tool for the right job. I own both Sony and Leica. Sony is more of a work horse camera for tough scenarios and circumstances. I like Leica more for stationary jobs and more easier to handle situations. Both great products for different reasons. Color output definitely goes to Leica along with the joy & experience of shooting.
Thanks for sharing!
I’m just here for the Pendleton. 😍
Haha love it
I imagine a Lumix S5Xii could be a solution since it's an L-mount system? I'm also looking at adjusting my gear more towards the Leica ecosystem in some ways
I'm just sticking with my Sony kit.
@@davidherring fair enough! Hope it works well for ya
I know this is an old video, but if you want to use Leica glass on a hybrid camera, wouldn't the Panasonic Lumix S5II or S5IIx be the fix since it's basically the same image camera with the addition of phase detect AF and probably the same 24MP sensor?
I just stuck with Sony.
I’m not very optimistic about the autofocus coming with the SL3. Just did a toddler shoot with the Q3 last night at f1.7 and didn’t get a single photo with the eyes sharp. Instead it focused on the eyebrows. My old A7RV would have gotten it perfect.
Bummer! Yeah my Q2 wasn’t great at autofocusing.
Ohhh, what a disaster😂😂😂
To be quite honest a Leica SL2s with m lens adapter and 24-70 SL lens seems a bit overkill for Vlogging. There are much more specific tools for just that at fraction of cost. I understand the brand recognition reasoning however if you know Leica youll know their target audience for their tools aren’t being used to Vlog.
Totally get that. I am making some short films this year too and got it for ALL of my video work, but it can’t handle the vlogging side unfortunately.
Nice, Good luck with that my dude!
6:11 Hey Dave. News Flash. Leica sources most of their technology from Panasonic - I doubt Leica develops anything related to auto-focus in house themselves. As such, the focus system on the SL cameras is following (e.g., trailing) what Panasonic does on their S5 line. When Leica introduces the SL3 generation you can expect it to have the same phase detect focus system that Panasonic introduced with the S5II.
Thanks for sharing.
Before you totally ditch it all, check out a panasonic body for video. I don't do video, but I'm thinking you could hold on to your L-mount glass until the SL-3 shows up. I have an SL2-S but I use it for photos, and I have a bunch of sigma lenses, which are awesome. No actual leica lenses.
Thanks for sharing! Not giving up just yet.
love hate with my SL2S, i use canon for work but Leica is my playtime camera with M lenses. The main reason besides autofocus I couldn't use Leica for work is Repairs! Mine has been getting fixed for over 5 months, I'm sorry but that is not a professionals tool. But I did order a SL3 :)
I recently sold mine. I’m really just an M guy.
Like the honesty about its issues.
Thanks!
Hi, finish recently encountered a very troublesome problem, my m11 often crashes when I look back at the photos, leica staff told me to replace the sd card, I'm currently using a sony sd memory card, I'd like to ask you what brand of sd card you are currently using and their model !
I use Lexar cards in all my cameras and I’ve never had an issue.
Extremely Grateful@@davidherring
For photos af is more than good enough, I make extensive portraits and it rarely missed focus. For video it is a bit different, I switched to an external monitor and use manual focus. and it works fine
Yeah, if I was behind the camera I'd just use manual focus and have no issues.
Hey Dave, what cage are we using here? Thanks.
8Sinn 💪🏼
Thanks for the vid. For me, I have been exposed to Sony for video as well so everything I try afterwards will have to give me that minimum level of functionality.
Definitely.
Hearing great things about lumix s5ii as a good alternative to the sl2s albeit has 24mp
Yeah, I think a lot of people love Lumix for video. Haven’t heard much about photos, though.
@@davidherringalso great for photography.
Ridiculous, megapixels don’t mean anything…. I agree with you about the autofocus…. It’s no good no matter how I try. On vintage glass for photography is awesome
Thanks for sharing.
M shooter although I do have an SL2s (and a CL ) .I found the grip very uncomfortable .Hands were sore at the end of the day. I also found the AF very poor. I do a lot of equestrian work and the AF just isn`t reliable . Because of that , other than the 24/70 , I haven`t invested in any of the native SL glass. It is also in my opinion unnecessarily heavy .I tend to gravitate towards my M4 BP or 246 and for a compact set up my CL with its super lenses or shoot it with M glass.
Thanks for sharing!
Check your software for any updates to the cameras computer.
Yeah it’s current. Great tip though!
Does anyone know where he got that black sticker for the sl2? I’ve been looking for one without the Leica logo!
geni.us/reddotcover/
They say the SL3 will be out in March
Yeah I’m watching to see what the specs are.
❤👍🔔 thanks for your videos. I have only one hand left, so i have to take the SL. M is too hard to work with. I am waiting for your next videos, greets from germany.
Carsten, Villa Petersberg
Thanks for the comment! The SL sounds perfect in this case, and I wish you all the best.
Upgrade the firmware for face detection focusing. I am a SL2S user. Yes the autofocus is not its strength
I was running current firmware. Sold this camera a while ago.
The same YTers who complain about the SL2-S AF will make excuses for M rangefinder calibration or MF challenges with a system that costs 2x. ie, Dave, your shots from the pumpkin patch @ f/1.4 looked pretty rough.
With the SL2-S, I expect usable autofocus...because it is an autofocus camera. With the M, if I fail, it's on me - not the tech. Thanks for the comment and feedback.
@@davidherring was it just for video, or also stills?
I honestly really curious how you can get usable results at 60MP on an M11 at low aperture.
I have been in every system except Nikon and currently own an SL2-s, Q2 and A7RV. Sony AF is hands-down but I hate the look. SL2-s gives me great stills and I rarely miss focus.
@seansitter7350 all wide open on the M11 ua-cam.com/video/hs1ORu2vn4I/v-deo.html
It was just for video, but that’s what I bought it for. If I wanted photos, I’d have done the SL2. Either way, just sticking with the M system.
@@davidherring Makes sense, never used it for video. Super impressive skate parks shots. Looks like you got the hang of MF wide open. Love your content, keep up the great work!
I only do photography and used it with wide angle and hard-to-focus M lenses. As long as cropping is not required, 24 MP is good enough for me. Sometimes I found spot focusing mode is more accurate with the SL lenses.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah I’d agree, if I never cropped then 24mp would be fine but I shoot horizontal 90% of the time and sometimes punch in vertically. Then it kind of falls apart.
LUMIX s52 maybe?
Probably not for me. Sony is working fine.
@@davidherringLUMIX and Leica definitely have better colors. Sony has an ugly look to it.
👍
Thanks!
The jumping back and forward made me nauseous
Thanks for the feedback.
@@davidherring love your channel
SL-3s…
We’ll see what the real world results are!
If you want to be a cinematographer just buy a Red and ARRI camera ... ops🤦♂ sorry they not allow you to autofocus... not even has the stabilisation ... good luck 😅
I didn’t get the SL2S to be a cinematographer and one of its selling points IS autofocus. Thanks for the comment.