Jon, you have done so well to share from the depths all the “goings on” in the SBC, their Seminaries/ we are thankful for your voice and wisdom in sharing.I remember saying to one of our sons not so long ago that my husband and I feel as if we have lost everything we hold dear. So, I feel your pain at the grieving of the losses you’ve had. You always bring us back to the glorious Truth of our Lord Jesus Christ and what He has secured for all of us who are “in Him”. Love you like a son!🥰🙏🏼
I totally agree that everything seems to be dying around us. The gospel and the separation from the world has never been more real than these past few years. The Lord has made us believers for such a time as this. Stay strong brothers and sisters. Our citizenship is in heaven!
@@markrichards6863 what do you mean? I voted for Trump because the other party was Godless, yes Trump is a sinner but the other party flat out said that God was not welcome
@@kathleen.rogers1442 Stop telling lies. Who said that. Joe Biden is the most religious president we've had in more than a generation. You shouldn't just make stuff up like that. Shame on you.
I have left the SBC. Either my Church will be affiliated with Founders or some independent Reformed Church of some kind. I know this may sound crazy to some but if the only faithful Church were some Presbyterian Church, I will take my family to it. Hopefully, they’ll accept a Baptist in their midst but I want to hear the Gospel... From now on until KING JESUS returns, the faithful will be in smaller Churches scattered around the world. The associations will probably be very small too. Instead of going to seminary, let’s have some, “strip mall seminaries,” and bring back those Bible Institutes for our churches. In the near Orwellian universe, there will be smaller Biblical Churches led by unknown Pastors but known by The Great Shepherd! If you have great books, keep them well hidden. We may exchange books among each other soon. The historic mainline denominations are done and It will all be okay. The LORD is working. Stand with Christ! Be encouraged Saints!
Im Presbyterian. About 30% of the church is baptist. We accept credo-baptist as members. You couldn't necessarily be an ordained elder. But i am with you, if my church ever goea liberal ill go down the road to a reformed Baptist church and gladly worship with the faithful.
I too am a PCA pastor, but not sure how much longer conservatives will be able to stay in the PCA. She isn't far behind the SBC. General Assembly will be a big reveal.
My husband and I tried to get our local SBC church to understand and respond to the current issues and drift from scripture over the past several years much to no avail. We finally ended up moving to an independent Baptist church that is biblically sound and like a breath of fresh air, although leaving our church family was extremely difficult. We couldn’t stand the compromises anymore.
I have found that IBCs tend to lean to KJV Bible, only. Which is a problem on its own. Is this your experience? I would be interested to know if there are Biblically sound churches that are not legalistic in some way. Thanks.
The church we moved to uses KJV. I use a NASB as I believe it is closer to the original text. The Pastor does expository preaching and we are very thankful to be under solid teaching. I try to be mindful of others and follow 1 Corinthians 8:9 “But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.” The church provides support for missionaries, seem to have more discernment and care deeply about reaching and saving the lost which we are thankful for.
This really saddens me. I belong to an SBC church. Thank you for opening this discussion. I need to study more about this and pray deeply about this. Oh, it’s so heartbreaking if what you’ve been talking about here (and your other videos) are accurate. Thank you for talking about this.
The sad truth is, that if you leave, the SBC won't even remember your name as you walk out the door. Shake the dust from your feet and go where the Spirit leads.
If your Church has a library ask them to give you the old books they are throwing out. I’ve been doing that for decades and have ended up with a lot of out of print books.
And He will give them over to a reprobate mind. So we see the winnowing begin. God placed Litton there to separate the wheat from tares. Be strong Brothers and Sisters. Stand with Christ!
That's my thoughts. And I am not even Baptist..this is going on in so many churches also..Is God separating the Sheep from Goats..Sure seems so..God says this would happen
@@marcyoverby3120 yes. Sadly this is nothing new to church denominations. Satan has found a way to open the door to heretical teachings such as women pastors and gay marriage under the cultural banner of “love”, but not the true definition in Christ. Now it is in the SBC under CRT-I. We are warned in scripture by Jesus, Paul, Peter and the OT prophets that this would happen. Be thankful we can see it and pray to not be swept up as false teachers spread satan’s agenda. Discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit. We will marvel as the days end at how stark the difference between truth and deception is. A great chasm.
@@stephencancel939 Who appoints leaders and kings and sets up nations, Brother? He's right, God's word says a terrible leader is a judgment on the people.
We had to leave a denomination over false teaching; my husband was an ordained pastor and we had been with one church for over ten years. Our kids all grew up in that church and we had helped to start a school. But it became impossible to minister within the existing authorities; there was so much corruption. It was heartbreaking but let me tell you when we attended a new church just to worship, we experienced such joy and freedom. So yes, the pain will be there but once you leave, it will be so wonderfully freeing! And God opened up new doors of ministry for us overseas - beyond our imagination. You have to look at leaving with an attitude of joyful expectation.
Your husband is an ordained pastor and you left that church because of false teaching? What was your husband teaching falsely? Was he doing it intentionally? Please ask your husband to let you reply to this comment. He might be getting a lot of Scripture wrong.
@@tonyv1695 She never said her husband was part of the false teaching, she said they left because of it. I don’t think her husband would have a problem answering your response. It seems you make a lot of false assumptions with her comment especially where her husband is concerned. I’m just mentioning this because I think you completely misread her message.
Hello brother. I was at the SBC21 annual meeting. I was shocked. I mean really shocked at what I witnessed. Not from those standing on the stage projecting their superior status down on me, but all those messengers sitting around me that were simply following without discernment. If it was said from the stage, it was followed. It was an eye opening experience.
In fairness, I don't think SBs are they different from most other religions. It's the degree of piousness tgststs excessive. As a Catholic, I had to shop around for the right parish, that was doing good work in the community, feeding the hungry, offered and inclusive environment. Sometimes going a couple of miles away can make a world if difference. I don't buy into to religious dogma, don't think sitting in a pew on Sunday will do anything more for me than give me splinters in my buttocks. I am impressed if the church is actually helping people get their basic needs met. Sometimes the loudest voices are backed by the least inspirational actions. Sometimes the most humble person makes the most meaningful actions. Sometimes the front rows are full of show offs. Your religious experience is what you make of it. If you feel good occupying space in church on Sunday, I suggest you try some volunteer work, either inside or outside the church. See how you feel about that. it'll likely put you in touch with folks you don't normally affiliate with. You may have your true religious experience in they way. Stay humble. Question authority. Do the next right thing. Help someone. E expect nothing in return.
@@markrichards6863 Mark just bear in mind works are good but as important is being saved which is being born again…Catholics do not promote that, they just assume they are going to heaven if they say an act of contrition before they die….was a dedicated catholic for 25 years before the Bible opened my eyes to truth rather than traditions.
@@patricepodvojsky9534 You weren't paying attention. None of the Catholics I know believe that. And since you brought it up, what good is being born again if you don't act charitably towards your community at large. I've had quite a few fingers waved at be by born again types who think they'll be saved by studying scripture, but not helping others. Mind you I don't say my religion is better than any other. I just think any judgement will be based on how we help the world be a better place. Thumping the Bible is just a hollow sound if you haven't sought to be truly helpful in our lives. I'm more attracted to someone feeding the hungry than to someone screaming at me about salvation. That sort of rhetoric is often self serving and of low value.
@@markrichards6863 truly born again “Christians”. Know instinctively that once they accept Christ as their savior they must follow Christ by works, helping those less fortunate, feeding the hungry..a multitude of ways to serve others if one is TRULY a born again christian. Those who think by being saved is enough are foolish, we have work to do as Christians.
Great video brother. I was voted out of an SBC in 2007 over "reformed theology." The motion for my termination said "Reformed theology is not the same as traditional baptist theology therefore I move that you vote out Chris Twilley." I also say "I didn't leave the SBC, the SBC left me." The ironic thing is that the church had as their doctrinal statement, the New Hampshire confession. I preached through each article of it in a sermon series and that widened the conflict. It was all part of God's plan to waken me up to the state of things and to progress me in my sanctification. I am so blessed to be a part of Anchored in Truth and am currently planting a church as part of this missions network. They are committed to planting Christ centered, biblically healthy churches. I appreciate your analogy so much, "It will be small at first but it will be healthy." We formed our membership 2 years ago, have 21 members and have 2 baptisms coming up. I'm preaching through Romans right now and no one got mad when I got to chapters 8 and 9. The Lord is at work! Thank you for your ministry.
Chris, thank you for your ministry. I’m very fond of Pastor Jeff Noblit & the incredible work God is doing at Grace Life & anchored in truth. I even drove to muscle shoals, when he decided to pull from the SBC to just simply thank him to his face after the service. He was kind & so very loving. Definitely a solid church. You’ll do just fine too brother.
"reformed theology" should be voted out. u cannot be both baptist and reformed. just ask a presbyterian.tho there have been calvinistic baptists, that is NOT the same thing as being reformed. have u read charles spurgeon?? NO baptist of any kind has ever taught covenant theology, infant baptism, elder rule etc etc. we now have SBC churches accepting into their membership people who were sprinkled as infants without requiring believers baptism, using presbyterian hymnals and sunday school curriculum etc. if u wanna be a presbyterian then go be one, but stay out of baptist churches. the new hampshire confession was written specifically by new england baptists who were repulsed by the philadelphia confession. it was written in such a way that both calvinistic and non calvinistic baptists could agree to before the neo reformed calvinists made a hobby horse of their predestinarian doctrines. the vast majority of baptists in america descend from shubal stearns and the sandy creek association, and they were NOT calvinists, so yes the "traditional" view is just that...dont believe me? read jesse mercers memoirs who was a 5 point calvinist and learn for yourself
I left a church/denomination (partly by force). It wasn't easy. But I can now see how, when you're loyal or very plugged into a denomination, you can't see the slide to the left and, even worse, you find yourself defending it. You put some trust in the denomination's traditions, history, and assume leaders are being vetted. You're firmly on that denominational train and you go where it takes you if you don't get off of it. It takes a lot to step out of and back from and see the real picture. Very freeing. Hard, but freeing.
I am a member of a SBC church. Our Pastor was disgusted with the SBC before he attended the Convention. They voted for a liberal man to be their leader. So that should tell you where the Church itself is leaning. Our Nation is leaning towards the Liberal agenda.
A former pastor of mine (a man I respect) gave his assessment of the convention and his last statement was that "there was no leftist drift in the SBC". I have moved several times in the last 15 years and I can tell you that the search for a solid baptist church is difficult. And I am in the Bible belt! My former pastor may be "too close to the fire to see the flames" because I have seen the drift for quite a few years.
Some of the Christian authors that I have a great deal of respect for shock me at times when I see some of the things that they support. It’s saddening to see what some of the people that we respect are blind to, but it does cause me to reflect on what I may be missing in my assessment of those things that I approve. Pray for discernment for that pastor friend of yours, as well as for you and me.
I'm a northern Independent Baptist and our hearts are so grieved for what's happening to our brothers and sisters. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord. Protect and defend sound doctrine. Leave. Support Christ; not prideful men and their titles.
Thank you for the information. I have recently walked away from the large SBC church I attended for years after discovering many of these things the hard way, first hand. The truly awful capitulations and outright sin they are now enabling, has sadly been confirmed.
This is so hard. My husband and have been back and forth for about a year or so on whether we should leave our small church in the SBC. One of our concerns has been the use of orange curriculum written by Andy Stanley among others for our children. And the initial encouraging of social distancing, etc the past 1.5 years. The independent fundamental baptist church down the road never stopped and never slowed down. We visited a few times and wow! It's so hard to make that leap, because we truly love our church family. We have a lot to pray about.
@@jatuttable sometimes you have to let them be turned over to a reprobate mind as someone else said. The SBC has had its time to come out of this. They keep going farther down the rabbit hole. We are called to be set apart not stay and fight a lost cause with ever increasing more and more liberal denomination at every turn.
Go where the truth is preached. If you elevate those people over the truth, you'll pay the price. If you stay, you and your family will be compromised. The verses about separation in II Corinthians are talking about relationships and the importance putting the LORD above even that. Don't make an idol of your friends. Perhaps they need to leave, too. And if they do not see the need to leave, you may need new friends.
My Presbyterian Pastor, along with other conservative Bible based pastors, stepped away from the PCA for these same reasons. They have established a new denominations rather that waste valuable time and resources on CRTI, and the other “woke” issues plaguing all denominations these days.
@@dr.vonslifeinvesting6485 You didn’t say which denomination you joined. PCA has very much gone after the way of the church of Sardis, as have most churches these days. There remain some faithful pastors who think they can change the direction from within, but SBC is no different from PCA and other denominations, including the Methodists who have gotten to the point where leadership has hijacked control away from the Gospel.
I've grown up in SBC churches but I never paid much attention to the Convention itself. My attention was called to the CRT resolution from 2019 by my Pastor sometime mid-2020. The pandemic paired with personal loss late in 2019 built the perfect storm to drive me deeper into faith. I 'separated' from my local church back in April, not for division but because my faith was becoming very different than the people around me. I loved my church too much to be an cause of division when I was struggling with my faith. I'm currently still at an SBC church, but I am watching events take place. The SBC is much like the Catholic church at this point, too large and too corrupt. Division may hurt some people in the short term, but it may be better to mend wounds now than later.
I don’t think the leadership at my church pays any attention to the SBC, for good or bad. It’s kind of like a bill you always pay but never question why you keep paying it.
The concern is people looking to visit your church see you are affiliated with the SBC may influence their decision to be a part of your church. Even if your church doesn't follow the SBC beliefs, they will assume you do.
@@hollisfarmshoney Exactly what I am dealing with now. Just in the last few weeks started visiting a church. The people are lovely, the pastor is WOW! The Word is preached accurately. Reformed Baptist. I made the mistake of looking at their website a couple weeks later. And I was astounded! They are part of the SBC so, I have to decide. I don't want to be associated with the SBC in any way. Not a penny of my money, and not a quiet acceptance of being yoked with the likes of Rick Warren who destroyed a previous church I was in by his books and church health and the emergent garbage that follows. I am sick.
@@redeemedbyJesus1975 Remain faithful to Christ. These capitulators and enablers of sin will be held accountable one day, as we all are. Sadly they are misleading so many who are naive and unaware. This could well be an end times scenario playing out.
J.d. greer and beth moore were enough to send me away from sbc ... not sure that JESUS would rather have each church autonomous from large organizations. Real point is , once biblical authority is undermined all you have left is opinions and convictions of some who really should not be sheparding GOD's people to begin with !!! Now the sbc seems to be going in the direction of the united methodist, the presbertian, and other more liberal denominations.
Each SBC church is independent and cooperates with its state convention as well as the SBC. If a church feels it’s necessary they can separate from the SBC and join another Baptist body.
It's painful as a Christian. I grieve for the Church. I think this is the Great Apostasy. It's infiltrated many local churches as well. It is something that SEEMS right but is off. I have a friend who's woke and I grieve for her.
I’m not sure institutions of any kind, religious, political or organizational can long survive in this age of distrust, misinformation and disinformation. It’s sad but inevitable.
Any student of revolutions knows that the power is never overthrown. "The poor you will always have among you." And so will institutions. Just look what happened to the Jewish revolt after the destruction of the Temple.
Thank you Jon for your faithfulness to the gospel and exposing the SBC. I did not grow up in a church. I began seeking God as a teenager, after being told by several people that I needed to be born again. After high-school I moved to Hawaii got married had five children. I spent 14 years in a Calvary Chapel (Chuck Smith founder), and left that church to attend a smaller church, was there for about 10 years and while there I began homeschooling our kids, and I was introduced to the Puritans and reformed theology, which seemed more biblical than any teaching I had learned thus far. I have been going to a Baptist church for the past 10 years. Gone through 2 pastors so far and for over a year we've been looking for a pastor. At my age I had hoped I could stay put at this church, but after learning about all that is going on with the SBC leadership I know I am going to need to look for another church. I'm glad to learn about this now though. If most Southern Baptist churches are anything like the one I'm going to, they have no clue. Our church doesn't talk about any of this, our messenger was there to vote without receiving any feedback from the members, that I'm aware of anyway. We have a transitional pastor that was there too and voted, and one of our members asked who he was going to vote for and the pastor told him that he was asking a loaded question and that he didn't want to "bore him with the details", but rather predicted who he thought was going to win, which was Al Mohler.
This is the time of great resolve and digging in to your faith. I would not recommend to leave but rather to take back your righteous place and stand strong in consolidation and faith!! Never stand down and allow the dark force to take hold, it is our duty to stand strong and protect the pulpit. As Davey Crockett said, "First be always sure you're right and then go ahead!" #parrhesia #standuptothewokemob
Run away...we are NOT to come into agreement with idols or demonic teaching. There can be no reformation when we dine at tables with false teachers and false preachers. We're called to expose the unfruitful works of darkness. Every believers allegiance must be to God--not a denomination.
I Understand fully the feelings that everything we love seems to be dying. The way I got out of my funk in being depressed about these things, I looked to the example of Lazerous story, and how without his death there would not be the beautiful story of the resurrection. I am a former NAMB church planter, I appreciated my time with them, but I love the Independant ministry I am now having the privilege from God to be part of. There is hope and life in Christ, but it is His hope and Life, it may look different than what we thought it would, but it’s his and it’s better. Loved your thoughts here and the easy understandability of the message. Keep up the good work my brother. Love from Ethiopia.
I attend a Southern Baptist congregation. The purposes of the SBC are missions, education, benevolence and social services to further the kingdom of God at home and abroad. My local congregation like others is self-governed. My work and church have given me opportunity to serve short-term on 5 of the 7 continents and in multiple closed countries. Our men associate annually with up to 20 other churches (SBC and independent) to build. We work in disaster relief organized by SBC. I know my congregation is imperfect, but in cooperation with others we build in God's kingdom physically and spiritually. We could achieve some of this as an independent congregation, but it is edifying to cooperate in kingdom building (even if mistakes are made and they do not meet everyone's ideals). Thank you for holding everyone accountable. May God grant us grace and mercy to walk more faithfully daily as our lives are transformed. I can't imagine a more fulfilling Christian participation than I have experienced, but God is so good that I know He has more and I'm only a septuagenarian. Seek to edify brother. It is easy to find fault among sinners, but as the trope goes, "God is not finished with us yet."
Just to encourage everyone... because disunity and division breaks my heart and for a while I was struggling with how the devil was infiltrating with so much false teaching and we just keep being fractured in spite of JEsus's prayer in John 17 involving unity (which I see my once beloved Francis Chan has adopted at any cost to great peril of his position in truth), and I was reading through the New Testament when a verse jumped out at me like never before: "18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,[a] 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized." 1ccor11 God's true church isn't dividing - it's like that Church John said he attended in upstate new york. The great "falling away" is happening prior to the end. we need to focus on the gospel primarily, and making disciples. Jesus is letting this crap happen because it must happen before "the man of lawlessness is revealed," and Jesus wants His bride.
I didn't grow up in Church but ended up attending church later on when I got older, in my late teens but I have always respected the southern Baptist church, because they have always been the more bible believing Christians. it's a shame the social justice, has started infecting the Southern Baptist community.
I have been under a rock although there have been some things that have not sat right with me about my church and their focus on diversity. They focus on racial diversity and one of the 14 goals they want to achieve by 2026 says no one culture will make up more than 50 percent of the church. In addition, I was listening to the Truth in Love broadcast last Thursday and found out about Resolution 9. I started doing my research. I cannot believe that the only issue my pastor has ever had an issue with is the sexual abuse stuff, but not Resolution 9 or anything else? Also I feel there is this focus on diversity. Right now it is racial diversity. Then I started noticing other red flags. A podcast on Diversity and the Gospel where the pastor being interviewed started off by saying because he was Korean he never fit in at church growing up. And then our worship pastor acknowledged Juneteenth and pointed out our diversity based on the different ethnic makeup. Why focus on this? And there are some other things too. They don't sit right. Time to leave
What hurts the most is the blatant hypocrisy. I believe that’s why Jesus condemned it so strongly throughout the Gospels. For example, I recall one of Dr. Adam Greenway’s lectures at seminary where he essentially warned us that if we couldn’t adhere to the Baptist Faith and Message that we should not become Southern Baptist ministers. However, I found on his facebook page a post where he congratulates Dr. Ed Litton for being elected and says that they’re looking forward to his leadership this year. Doesn’t the man allow his wife to “preach” in the pulpit? Is that not against the BF&M?
@@tonyv1695 While I can appreciate the sarcasm, my point is that there appears to be a clear double-standard in what many so-called leaders in the SBC say to their students and/or their congregations as opposed to what they say or how they respond when someone who is clearly in error wins in certain SBC political situations. That’s the part I mentioned about hypocrisy. But hey, thanks for your pithy and well-thought out reply…
Amen Jon, I am very thankful Gal 2:20. The worst thing that could happen to me is not to be converted, I am not oppressed, the joy of the Lord is my strength "God bless" Is 41:10
Jon, did you leave the SBC? If so, what are you doing now? Did you go to another denomination, or are you attending a house church? What do you advise?
Hopefully your words of wisdom on moving forward and starting a new are things people will consider. Im neither Baptist nor Southern Baptist..... what I am is a miracle because Jesus loves us . And while people fight and posture overr rules , bylaws , and tradions in between the translation they seem to lose focus of the true purpose of what our aim is to be ..... to preach the gospel of good news . LUKE 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed; 19To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.” All one can do is hope and pray . To try and get them to see their errors. God's loving mercies be yours always.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist church which was a fairly reserved congregation which become more spirited. I am now Episcopalian. Baptists are like any other denomination and vary by congregation. Williston First Baptist nearly broke up over a child bringing a black friend to church. The average black worshipper is more spirited than whites, so there is rarely danger of a black takeover of a white church.
I was at the convention and much of this is true. I did not feel comfortable at times and scratched my head at some of the floors voting. Stone won the most votes first, but then lost to litton. He's not squeaky clean either (Stone) but better overall than litton. I will say we my small church I pastor is going to stay for the next year and see how things play out. If conservatives thought this way 40 years ago it would have been lost long ago and we'd be worse off. Then liberalism was obvious and abhorrent. There are still many conservatives today. I urge everyone to go to Anaheim next year and stand tall calling out the evil and hypocrisy. If next year is like this year, or worse then its time to go
In essentials unity, in non essentials, liberty, in all things, charity. St Augustine Splits and multiple sub splits will continue as long as people make orthodoxy out of non-essentials. Nothing will ever be orthodox enough for those who cannot accomodate differing views on non-essentials which many have confused for essentials.
I can only recommend Iain Murray's series on church history. Simply put, scholarship qualifies a man for nothing in the true Church. The SBC bears no resemblance to the New Testament Church. When Al Mohler signed the Manhattan Declaration (a revision of ETC) the handwriting was on the wall, not only for SBC, but also for mainstream evangelicalism. The blind leading the blind.
There have always been problems with the SBC. Hershchel Hobbs was "Mr. Baptist" himself and in 1980 he stood up for inerrancy and literally got BOOED! He had been a former president of the SBC in the 60's and helped draft the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message Statement. Later in that decade came the Moral Majority and guys like Adrian Rogers and W.A. Criswell helped lead a conservative resurgence but that's all long gone. Jerry Vines was also a great conservative voice. Now it's all about the hipsters and virtue signalers taking over but it's not exactly anything new.
I went to Glorieta for College Student Week in 1987 or 88. Herschel Hobbs was a speaker that week. Before one of the services he was sitting there all along in the pews so I went and introduced my self and asked him about being a preacher. He told me to look at one of the speakers already sitting on the podium. Hershchel told me, "just remember, when you sit up on the podium, people can see your socks. Make sure they match!"
@@greg54444 That's really cool! My mentor got to sit under Herschel at Carson Newman College a lot WAY back in the day and he loved him. I've also talked to multiple people that met him and everyone always spoke highly of him. One guy told me that he was one of those people that when you met him if you asked him to pray about something he would literally just put his arm around you and pray right there on the spot. He wrote his autobiography called My Faith and Message and in it he told the story of when he met JFK and he asked him if it would be alright to have prayer with him and JFK told him yeah and he prayed with him right in the Oval Office. He was a GREAT man and he goes on my personal "Mt Rushmore" of preachers for sure.
The loss of 288,000 church members last year brings total SBC membership to 14.5 million, down from its peak of 16.3 million in 2006. Average worship attendance remained relatively stable at 5.2 million.
I grew up Southern Baptist and had been one for almost all of my life until we left the last SBC church we were a part of in early 2011 due to problems with not only our pastor, but also our associational director, who sided with him even though he was clearly in the wrong. And that was before things REALLY got bad at the national level. I just praise God we got out before the SBC's leftward drift. We now go to a little country church that's affiliated with the General Baptists.
When they divided from the Old School and set up a new School in the 1800s the writing was on the wall remove not the ancient Landmarks. Black rock Association meeting in 1889 the division between the Old School and the New School research it
Just finished listening to Todd Friel's take on the SBC post-convention and was deeply disappointed by him to the point that I've unsubscribed from his show. The SBC, as an organization, is clearly now a wicked one. This isn't a battle between conservative and a little less conservative. These are liberals and you now this for the following reasons: They are happy being pro-life in a country that has canonized baby murder, anti-CRT in name while pro-CRT in action and belief, pro-biblical marriage in a country where same sex marriage is law...need I go on? The SBC is a microcosm of our once many trustworthy and helpful institutions in the United States, but they have lost all credibility. Jon is spot on this. If your SBC church won't leave the convention, get out of that church and go to an independent baptist church. If you live in an area with an SBC church, you are HIGHLY LIKELY to be able to find another baptist church that's not entangled in this organization of deceipt.
Excellent points - in the absence of true Holy Spirit revival and God caused change - it is demographics that will drive everything and all of those are going in the wrong direction for the SBC. However there are still true followers in Jesus and the Holy Spirit is still active. As you say our lives are short let's make them count - working in God's Kingdom instead of those built by man's hands over which the devil presides to keep people "busy" in the worries of the world.
Helpful video. Anyone interested to hear an SBC leader give excellent reasons why he left. He also explains how he announced it to his church. Justin Peters interviewed pastor Casey Butner on Justin’s channel. I recommend watching to learn some inside problems the SBC is not sharing in public.
How many Baptist denominations/associations are there already? Maybe separation is necessary sometimes, but I think people in general are too prone to it.
What? No. Christ said we are to be one Body and prayed that we would be one. Separation means death, theologically, morally, socially. That is the fruit of Protestantism
@@jmjaquinas7298 ...not sure to whom you are replying; however, the term "Sepratists" for the original Baptists was an issue over infant baptism. Well before the actions of Martin Luther. Going back even further, the Great Schism of the 3rd century church over the issue of the Filioque further divided "the churches in Christ"... one would need to emulate the 1st. century church to even approach the "oneness in Christ". The Orthodox Church is "closest", in that regard, but instituted practices during the later 2nd. century which are not in keeping with neither Petrine nor Pauline Apistology.
This is helpful. I want to stay with my local church because of my age and lack of family and personal transportation where I live. Please pray for me.
Jon, I understand your thinking on this and while I find it fairly convincing, I also think Rod Martin makes a great argument for staying. At the beginning of this podcast you suggested you were willing to open your platform to someone with name recognition who held the opposite perspective. I heard him talking with Founders and with Cross Politic about it, and think a discussion between the two of you about this would be edifying even though you hold opposite perspectives.
I Pastored a First Baptist Church years ago, I saw the writing on the wall and we disassociated with the convention and stopped dealing with them. I left later & they've gotten back in unfortunately
It’s the humans in sin. The pride of position and power. The “world” cannot but seduce even Christians. My impulse would be to treat them as unregenerate or fallen. As a group that’s how they are operating. Very sad. With love
Great show with concerns for the direction the SBC is moving to. My view is the Love of God transcends culture and diversity with spiritual transformation for all regardless of race colour religion creed or political beliefs .
Sbc this year was trying to put in an amendment to discontinue the calvinest teaching that started with the founder and has always been in the Baptist, like once saved always saved, pre destination by God, picked for salvation and you can't lose it, or the other teaching everything is Gods will, whether good or bad, but they didn't put in the amendment to get calvinism out
Interesting and thoughtful presentation of your concern for SBC. However you were more than halfway through your presentation before actually giving your "8 Reasons". (At the 17:32 min mark of a 32:59 minutes video) This first half was spent on background and comments about the general take over of SBC by social justice advocates and liberal woke theology. Those were important to know but i think you could have included that info and opinions as you went through each of the 8 reasons. You did do this to some extent but it was a repeat of points you made in the 17minute "preamble". With that said i do believe you have raise issues for every faithful follower of Christ to consider if they are attending a SBC affiliated congregation. I have subscribed to your channel to read your other post. I will continue to strive to follow the example of the Bereans to test all teachings related to Christian Faith and practice against what the Bible actually says letting Scripture interrupt Scripture rather than other men's opinions. Im glad you closed with core of the Gospel : Ephesians 2:89.
You make excellent points, though when I went to SBC churches, they were becoming too far right and political. After going to college I joined a independent Baptist church(at the time I had no idea there was such a thing). For 4 years I actually enjoyed going to Church and experiencing God's peace. But after graduation I returned home and the SBC (there were no independent Baptist churches in my hometown and frankly going to SBC churches was the only way to meet people my age) where I met my ex-fiancé. After we broke up, I tried to find other churches and completely frustrated with not finding that peace I felt in college especially for healing I left the SBC for good. Here are my eight reasons why I left the SBC and why Christians should never join them. #8 Sermons are more theatrical. The last time I went to a SBC service, it was like being a part of a Oprah TV show where the leaders would talk and as if just for show. It all seemed fake to me and not a true representation of how we should worship God. #7 Lack of mission/community service and activities within church. The church that I grew up wasn't very active in our community and had few opportunities to serve. The church I go now (a Methodist church) is very active and has fundraising events at least twice a month. #6 Lack of friendliness I never seemed to fit in in a SBC church especially during my high school days. Nobody ever reached out to me, or made me or other people feel welcome. In fact, I experienced a bit of a culture shock when I joined the Independent Baptist Church and a non-denominational Christian group that each had leaders reaching out to me and offering to have coffee with me while reading the bible or other materials. I since then try to lead by their example and be friendly and welcoming to all even our brothers and sisters that are shy and seemed neglected. #5 Becoming too political Like I mentioned, the SBC that I know are becoming more far right and political. In most SBC sermons, something political has to be mentioned. The last time I went to a SBC service, the preacher talked about Roe vs Wade being overturned (it was the first thing he mentioned in fact). It does seem to me that you have to be a repblican in order to be a proper Christian ( or so they say) I don’t like politics and it’s my belief that politics ruin everything including region. I want to worship God in peace not hear politics. #4 History of discrimination/hatred The SBC was started because the Baptist that owned slaves thought it was Christian to do so and the abolitionists thought otherwise. Since then, the SBC has continued to discriminate against blacks and use the Bible to support discrimination and segregation. The SBC has also spoken negatively against Jews, Muslims, freemasons, Catholics, liberals, and any other non-conservative/ non-Baptist groups and beliefs based on misinterpretations or in my opinion abuse from the Bible. In fact, my ex-fiancé dumped me for being a freemason after going through a Christian revival after losing a job. Since becoming a member, I have received links from dedicated Christians about why the organization is not biblical. #3 Leaders/members are more concerned about being Baptists than being Christians. Growing up, I often hear my preacher talk about other denominations and religions and what they believe. “But that’s not what we believe” He would often say. My mother, when I was at college, reminded me that I’m a southern Baptist. I resent those statements because it is telling us that the loyalty of the SBC is to the organization itself not to God and the teachings of the Lord Jesus. I considered it a vivid example of lacking an open mind, which is necessary for enhancement and improvement, and excluding those that disagree with the orthodoxy of the SBC. #2 Leaders/Teachings are corrupt and hypocritical My SBC preacher was a leader in a mega church and lived in one of the richest neighborhoods in our county. I always thought that that was inappropriate as he should be living a moderate life and dedicated much of the earnings to the mission and community service not so he can live rich and play golf. Also, the SBC leaders had been covering up sexual abuse charges against some of its leaders. This is incredibly wrong and evil not to mention hypocritical as we should expose them as it is written in Ephesians 5:11-12. The SBC is also not a loving community, as they show discontent with homosexuals and liberals. While the acceptance of homosexuals is a bit controversial, I see no reason why we shouldn't love them as Christ wanted us to and to show mercy. #1 Becoming more and more like a cult Because of the abovementioned, especially #2 and #3, I have started to view the SBC more and more like a cult dedicated only to extraction wealth from membership, preservation of own political ideology instead of the truth of God, protecting corrupt leaders, and misusing the bible to justify otherwise unsound doctrine. While I pray that the SBC will continue to be depleted as a result, I do hope that they will find the errors of their ways and revived themselves to be the proper beacon of light that God wanted them to be.
The 2 church's back in the 80s and early 90s..you mentioned potluck dinners...we called them potbless dinners..and Wednesday home Fellowship. Pastors wife always had something for the Women and missionary come to share what God was doing were they where..and National day of prayer..We would hooked up to other churches around our area...praying for our Nation.....What happened????We didn't play Church, We had Church...
Talk about First Baptists? Abraham and Lot ; “ You go your way and I go my way !” But all on the Pilgrimage ! Still caring and not harming !That’s Kingdom People !
A Black pastor talked about OT/NT : Classic/Specific! Inspired me to develop what I wrote on FB ! A) Religiously: Abraham/ Lot: Personal God / Seculariszd god ; B) Politically: OT/NT-Constitution/ Bylaw C) OT/NT-Principle/Practical; D) interpersonally: hurt/harm:-family relations hurt but a lesson to learn ; Street confrontation is to harm and kill to avoid !
@@Acek-ok9dp no argument or debate, but no thank you☺️. I’ve tried those, (not for the sake of denomination, but for the sake of looking for a church that preached the Word and also applied the Word. Everything with Truth and love and also a church that was active not just in abroad but also and emphasis in local soul winning).
@Conversationsthatmatter apparently, you missed it, Apple Pie IS racist! Check out the Guardian article (I don't think we can link to external sites here) entitled, "Food injustice has deep roots: let’s start with America’s apple pie". Here's a "highlight"... "John Chapman, better known as Johnny Appleseed, took these markers of colonized property to the frontiers of US expansion where his trees stood as symbols that Indigenous communities had been extirpated." So, unfortunately, you're going to have to remove something else from the "something you love" list... Apple pie.
That's absolutely right. If you don't like your religion, you are free to leave. I'm a cafeteria Catholic, participating in the elements I agree with, vocally rejected the areas if dogma I don't agree with. I think there are lots if people in the church.
If you leave - do you get to keep the hard assets? The UMC voted for true conservatives to leave and the liberal upcomers get to keep all the hard assets (which is completely preposterous - and, so, we left the UMC.
Jon, you have done so well to share from the depths all the “goings on” in the SBC, their Seminaries/ we are thankful for your voice and wisdom in sharing.I remember saying to one of our sons not so long ago that my husband and I feel as if we have lost everything we hold dear. So, I feel your pain at the grieving of the losses you’ve had. You always bring us back to the glorious Truth of our Lord Jesus Christ and what He has secured for all of us who are “in Him”. Love you like a son!🥰🙏🏼
I totally agree that everything seems to be dying around us. The gospel and the separation from the world has never been more real than these past few years. The Lord has made us believers for such a time as this. Stay strong brothers and sisters. Our citizenship is in heaven!
Amen brother
Amen!!
Elevating Trump proved how morally bankrupt parts of this country are.
@@markrichards6863 what do you mean? I voted for Trump because the other party was Godless, yes Trump is a sinner but the other party flat out said that God was not welcome
@@kathleen.rogers1442 Stop telling lies. Who said that. Joe Biden is the most religious president we've had in more than a generation. You shouldn't just make stuff up like that. Shame on you.
I have left the SBC. Either my Church will be affiliated with Founders or some independent Reformed Church of some kind. I know this may sound crazy to some but if the only faithful Church were some Presbyterian Church, I will take my family to it. Hopefully, they’ll accept a Baptist in their midst but I want to hear the Gospel... From now on until KING JESUS returns, the faithful will be in smaller Churches scattered around the world. The associations will probably be very small too. Instead of going to seminary, let’s have some, “strip mall seminaries,” and bring back those Bible Institutes for our churches. In the near Orwellian universe, there will be smaller Biblical Churches led by unknown Pastors but known by The Great Shepherd! If you have great books, keep them well hidden. We may exchange books among each other soon. The historic mainline denominations are done and It will all be okay. The LORD is working. Stand with Christ! Be encouraged Saints!
Im Presbyterian. About 30% of the church is baptist. We accept credo-baptist as members. You couldn't necessarily be an ordained elder. But i am with you, if my church ever goea liberal ill go down the road to a reformed Baptist church and gladly worship with the faithful.
@@calvinknox1142 I left my local PCA and now attend a Reformed Baptist church. The difference is refreshing.
@@calvinknox1142 I am a PCA pastor and we have a few confessional Reformed Baptists in our church. We love them!
I too am a PCA pastor, but not sure how much longer conservatives will be able to stay in the PCA. She isn't far behind the SBC. General Assembly will be a big reveal.
Well Presbyterians, write all the best stuff. Baptists just don’t write a whole lot. LOL
This is what happens when the church follows the ways of the world…
My husband and I tried to get our local SBC church to understand and respond to the current issues and drift from scripture over the past several years much to no avail. We finally ended up moving to an independent Baptist church that is biblically sound and like a breath of fresh air, although leaving our church family was extremely difficult. We couldn’t stand the compromises anymore.
I have found that IBCs tend to lean to KJV Bible, only. Which is a problem on its own. Is this your experience? I would be interested to know if there are Biblically sound churches that are not legalistic in some way. Thanks.
The church we moved to uses KJV. I use a NASB as I believe it is closer to the original text. The Pastor does expository preaching and we are very thankful to be under solid teaching. I try to be mindful of others and follow 1 Corinthians 8:9 “But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.” The church provides support for missionaries, seem to have more discernment and care deeply about reaching and saving the lost which we are thankful for.
I would take an IFB church that uses KJV only in the preaching than SBC false woke gospel
I left my United Methodist church in the same manner.
We have a hard time finding an Independent Baptist Church in our area.
This really saddens me. I belong to an SBC church. Thank you for opening this discussion. I need to study more about this and pray deeply about this. Oh, it’s so heartbreaking if what you’ve been talking about here (and your other videos) are accurate. Thank you for talking about this.
They do not understand the gospel and rebel against the authority of scripture. The end.
The sad truth is, that if you leave, the SBC won't even remember your name as you walk out the door. Shake the dust from your feet and go where the Spirit leads.
Jon, love your well researched insights, supporting evidence, and biblical perspective as the foundation.
If your Church has a library ask them to give you the old books they are throwing out. I’ve been doing that for decades and have ended up with a lot of out of print books.
And He will give them over to a reprobate mind. So we see the winnowing begin. God placed Litton there to separate the wheat from tares. Be strong Brothers and Sisters. Stand with Christ!
That's my thoughts. And I am not even Baptist..this is going on in so many churches also..Is God separating the Sheep from Goats..Sure seems so..God says this would happen
@@marcyoverby3120 yes. Sadly this is nothing new to church denominations. Satan has found a way to open the door to heretical teachings such as women pastors and gay marriage under the cultural banner of “love”, but not the true definition in Christ. Now it is in the SBC under CRT-I. We are warned in scripture by Jesus, Paul, Peter and the OT prophets that this would happen. Be thankful we can see it and pray to not be swept up as false teachers spread satan’s agenda. Discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit. We will marvel as the days end at how stark the difference between truth and deception is. A great chasm.
God didn’t place that fool there. Man did. Cmon dude
@@stephencancel939 Who appoints leaders and kings and sets up nations, Brother? He's right, God's word says a terrible leader is a judgment on the people.
@@stephencancel939 but God allowed it for such a time as this. I believe. Just like presidents we don’t understand in the White House
We had to leave a denomination over false teaching; my husband was an ordained pastor and we had been with one church for over ten years. Our kids all grew up in that church and we had helped to start a school. But it became impossible to minister within the existing authorities; there was so much corruption. It was heartbreaking but let me tell you when we attended a new church just to worship, we experienced such joy and freedom. So yes, the pain will be there but once you leave, it will be so wonderfully freeing! And God opened up new doors of ministry for us overseas - beyond our imagination. You have to look at leaving with an attitude of joyful expectation.
Your husband is an ordained pastor and you left that church because of false teaching?
What was your husband teaching falsely? Was he doing it intentionally? Please ask your husband to let you reply to this comment. He might be getting a lot of Scripture wrong.
@@tonyv1695 He was the assistant minister; the senior pastor had left and the elders brought on a Federal Vision pastor as senior pastor.
@@tonyv1695 She never said her husband was part of the false teaching, she said they left because of it. I don’t think her husband would have a problem answering your response. It seems you make a lot of false assumptions with her comment especially where her husband is concerned. I’m just mentioning this because I think you completely misread her message.
Hello brother. I was at the SBC21 annual meeting. I was shocked. I mean really shocked at what I witnessed. Not from those standing on the stage projecting their superior status down on me, but all those messengers sitting around me that were simply following without discernment. If it was said from the stage, it was followed. It was an eye opening experience.
Most act cowardly when faced with what's right and being at odds with the "consensus." We saw a lot of that in 2020!
In fairness, I don't think SBs are they different from most other religions. It's the degree of piousness tgststs excessive. As a Catholic, I had to shop around for the right parish, that was doing good work in the community, feeding the hungry, offered and inclusive environment. Sometimes going a couple of miles away can make a world if difference. I don't buy into to religious dogma, don't think sitting in a pew on Sunday will do anything more for me than give me splinters in my buttocks. I am impressed if the church is actually helping people get their basic needs met. Sometimes the loudest voices are backed by the least inspirational actions. Sometimes the most humble person makes the most meaningful actions. Sometimes the front rows are full of show offs. Your religious experience is what you make of it. If you feel good occupying space in church on Sunday, I suggest you try some volunteer work, either inside or outside the church. See how you feel about that. it'll likely put you in touch with folks you don't normally affiliate with. You may have your true religious experience in they way. Stay humble. Question authority. Do the next right thing. Help someone. E expect nothing in return.
@@markrichards6863 Mark just bear in mind works are good but as important is being saved which is being born again…Catholics do not promote that, they just assume they are going to heaven if they say an act of contrition before they die….was a dedicated catholic for 25 years before the Bible opened my eyes to truth rather than traditions.
@@patricepodvojsky9534 You weren't paying attention. None of the Catholics I know believe that. And since you brought it up, what good is being born again if you don't act charitably towards your community at large. I've had quite a few fingers waved at be by born again types who think they'll be saved by studying scripture, but not helping others. Mind you I don't say my religion is better than any other. I just think any judgement will be based on how we help the world be a better place. Thumping the Bible is just a hollow sound if you haven't sought to be truly helpful in our lives. I'm more attracted to someone feeding the hungry than to someone screaming at me about salvation. That sort of rhetoric is often self serving and of low value.
@@markrichards6863 truly born again “Christians”. Know instinctively that once they accept Christ as their savior they must follow Christ by works, helping those less fortunate, feeding the hungry..a multitude of ways to serve others if one is TRULY a born again christian. Those who think by being saved is enough are foolish, we have work to do as Christians.
Great video brother. I was voted out of an SBC in 2007 over "reformed theology." The motion for my termination said "Reformed theology is not the same as traditional baptist theology therefore I move that you vote out Chris Twilley." I also say "I didn't leave the SBC, the SBC left me." The ironic thing is that the church had as their doctrinal statement, the New Hampshire confession. I preached through each article of it in a sermon series and that widened the conflict. It was all part of God's plan to waken me up to the state of things and to progress me in my sanctification. I am so blessed to be a part of Anchored in Truth and am currently planting a church as part of this missions network. They are committed to planting Christ centered, biblically healthy churches. I appreciate your analogy so much, "It will be small at first but it will be healthy." We formed our membership 2 years ago, have 21 members and have 2 baptisms coming up. I'm preaching through Romans right now and no one got mad when I got to chapters 8 and 9. The Lord is at work! Thank you for your ministry.
Chris, thank you for your ministry. I’m very fond of Pastor Jeff Noblit & the incredible work God is doing at Grace Life & anchored in truth. I even drove to muscle shoals, when he decided to pull from the SBC to just simply thank him to his face after the service. He was kind & so very loving. Definitely a solid church. You’ll do just fine too brother.
"reformed theology" should be voted out. u cannot be both baptist and reformed. just ask a presbyterian.tho there have been calvinistic baptists, that is NOT the same thing as being reformed. have u read charles spurgeon?? NO baptist of any kind has ever taught covenant theology, infant baptism, elder rule etc etc. we now have SBC churches accepting into their membership people who were sprinkled as infants without requiring believers baptism, using presbyterian hymnals and sunday school curriculum etc. if u wanna be a presbyterian then go be one, but stay out of baptist churches. the new hampshire confession was written specifically by new england baptists who were repulsed by the philadelphia confession. it was written in such a way that both calvinistic and non calvinistic baptists could agree to before the neo reformed calvinists made a hobby horse of their predestinarian doctrines. the vast majority of baptists in america descend from shubal stearns and the sandy creek association, and they were NOT calvinists, so yes the "traditional" view is just that...dont believe me? read jesse mercers memoirs who was a 5 point calvinist and learn for yourself
Please post time stamp for when he gets to the 8 reasons
I left a church/denomination (partly by force). It wasn't easy. But I can now see how, when you're loyal or very plugged into a denomination, you can't see the slide to the left and, even worse, you find yourself defending it. You put some trust in the denomination's traditions, history, and assume leaders are being vetted. You're firmly on that denominational train and you go where it takes you if you don't get off of it. It takes a lot to step out of and back from and see the real picture. Very freeing. Hard, but freeing.
I am a member of a SBC church. Our Pastor was disgusted with the SBC before he attended the Convention. They voted for a liberal man to be their leader. So that should tell you where the Church itself is leaning. Our Nation is leaning towards the Liberal agenda.
A former pastor of mine (a man I respect) gave his assessment of the convention and his last statement was that "there was no leftist drift in the SBC". I have moved several times in the last 15 years and I can tell you that the search for a solid baptist church is difficult. And I am in the Bible belt! My former pastor may be "too close to the fire to see the flames" because I have seen the drift for quite a few years.
Some of the Christian authors that I have a great deal of respect for shock me at times when I see some of the things that they support. It’s saddening to see what some of the people that we respect are blind to, but it does cause me to reflect on what I may be missing in my assessment of those things that I approve. Pray for discernment for that pastor friend of yours, as well as for you and me.
I'm a northern Independent Baptist and our hearts are so grieved for what's happening to our brothers and sisters. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord. Protect and defend sound doctrine. Leave. Support Christ; not prideful men and their titles.
Thank you for the information. I have recently walked away from the large SBC church I attended for years after discovering many of these things the hard way, first hand. The truly awful capitulations and outright sin they are now enabling, has sadly been confirmed.
This is so hard. My husband and have been back and forth for about a year or so on whether we should leave our small church in the SBC.
One of our concerns has been the use of orange curriculum written by Andy Stanley among others for our children.
And the initial encouraging of social distancing, etc the past 1.5 years.
The independent fundamental baptist church down the road never stopped and never slowed down. We visited a few times and wow!
It's so hard to make that leap, because we truly love our church family.
We have a lot to pray about.
Don't go! Serve the Lord and fight for our denomination.
@@jatuttable sometimes you have to let them be turned over to a reprobate mind as someone else said. The SBC has had its time to come out of this. They keep going farther down the rabbit hole. We are called to be set apart not stay and fight a lost cause with ever increasing more and more liberal denomination at every turn.
Go where the truth is preached. If you elevate those people over the truth, you'll pay the price. If you stay, you and your family will be compromised. The verses about separation in II Corinthians are talking about relationships and the importance putting the LORD above even that. Don't make an idol of your friends. Perhaps they need to leave, too. And if they do not see the need to leave, you may need new friends.
Explain why you leave when you do. I think that's the hard part.
Do not financially contribute to the SBC for all the reasons in the video, and more.
My Presbyterian Pastor, along with other conservative Bible based pastors, stepped away from the PCA for these same reasons. They have established a new denominations rather that waste valuable time and resources on CRTI, and the other “woke” issues plaguing all denominations these days.
I started attending a Presbyterian church this year that sticks to the Bible. I had to leave my Methodist church.
@@dr.vonslifeinvesting6485 You didn’t say which denomination you joined. PCA has very much gone after the way of the church of Sardis, as have most churches these days. There remain some faithful pastors who think they can change the direction from within, but SBC is no different from PCA and other denominations, including the Methodists who have gotten to the point where leadership has hijacked control away from the Gospel.
@@sueregan2782 CREC - Trinity Pres. in Birmingham Al.
What is woke?
God is separating the wheat from the tares. Stand firm on Christ and ride out the storm
Sounds good but that Kingdom parable isn't fulfilled until Christ's 2nd coming to earth at the end times harvest (Mat 13:20).
I'm not saying it's bad advise, but not relevant to the conversation.
I've grown up in SBC churches but I never paid much attention to the Convention itself. My attention was called to the CRT resolution from 2019 by my Pastor sometime mid-2020. The pandemic paired with personal loss late in 2019 built the perfect storm to drive me deeper into faith. I 'separated' from my local church back in April, not for division but because my faith was becoming very different than the people around me. I loved my church too much to be an cause of division when I was struggling with my faith.
I'm currently still at an SBC church, but I am watching events take place. The SBC is much like the Catholic church at this point, too large and too corrupt. Division may hurt some people in the short term, but it may be better to mend wounds now than later.
I don’t think the leadership at my church pays any attention to the SBC, for good or bad. It’s kind of like a bill you always pay but never question why you keep paying it.
Sad but true for too many churches
Unfortunately I think that is the lukewarmth that has led to this.
The concern is people looking to visit your church see you are affiliated with the SBC may influence their decision to be a part of your church. Even if your church doesn't follow the SBC beliefs, they will assume you do.
@@hollisfarmshoney Exactly what I am dealing with now. Just in the last few weeks started visiting a church. The people are lovely, the pastor is WOW! The Word is preached accurately. Reformed Baptist. I made the mistake of looking at their website a couple weeks later. And I was astounded! They are part of the SBC so, I have to decide. I don't want to be associated with the SBC in any way. Not a penny of my money, and not a quiet acceptance of being yoked with the likes of Rick Warren who destroyed a previous church I was in by his books and church health and the emergent garbage that follows. I am sick.
@@redeemedbyJesus1975 Remain faithful to Christ. These capitulators and enablers of sin will be held accountable one day, as we all are. Sadly they are misleading so many who are naive and unaware. This could well be an end times scenario playing out.
Thank you brother for all that you share and teach here! You have helped me greatly!
I appreciate/admire someone who welcomes discussion instead of just labelling anyone who has questions as a "wolf".
When Russell Moore is being interviewed by Beth Moore, that's a gigantic problem.
J.d. greer and beth moore were enough to send me away from sbc ... not sure that JESUS would rather have each church autonomous from large organizations. Real point is , once biblical authority is undermined all you have left is opinions and convictions of some who really should not be sheparding GOD's people to begin with !!! Now the sbc seems to be going in the direction of the united methodist, the presbertian, and other more liberal denominations.
Each SBC church is independent and cooperates with its state convention as well as the SBC. If a church feels it’s necessary they can separate from the SBC and join another Baptist body.
Thanks for doing what you do man, dark times are upon us but God is good. The SBC is becoming more of a new RCC and it is time for a new reformation.
It's painful as a Christian. I grieve for the Church. I think this is the Great Apostasy. It's infiltrated many local churches as well. It is something that SEEMS right but is off. I have a friend who's woke and I grieve for her.
Glad I’m converting to orthodoxy, they don’t simp to the degeneracy and sinful ways of the world.
I’m not sure institutions of any kind, religious, political or organizational can long survive in this age of distrust, misinformation and disinformation. It’s sad but inevitable.
Any student of revolutions knows that the power is never overthrown. "The poor you will always have among you." And so will institutions. Just look what happened to the Jewish revolt after the destruction of the Temple.
Thank you Jon for your faithfulness to the gospel and exposing the SBC. I did not grow up in a church. I began seeking God as a teenager, after being told by several people that I needed to be born again. After high-school I moved to Hawaii got married had five children. I spent 14 years in a Calvary Chapel (Chuck Smith founder), and left that church to attend a smaller church, was there for about 10 years and while there I began homeschooling our kids, and I was introduced to the Puritans and reformed theology, which seemed more biblical than any teaching I had learned thus far. I have been going to a Baptist church for the past 10 years. Gone through 2 pastors so far and for over a year we've been looking for a pastor. At my age I had hoped I could stay put at this church, but after learning about all that is going on with the SBC leadership I know I am going to need to look for another church.
I'm glad to learn about this now though. If most Southern Baptist churches are anything like the one I'm going to, they have no clue. Our church doesn't talk about any of this, our messenger was there to vote without receiving any feedback from the members, that I'm aware of anyway. We have a transitional pastor that was there too and voted, and one of our members asked who he was going to vote for and the pastor told him that he was asking a loaded question and that he didn't want to "bore him with the details", but rather predicted who he thought was going to win, which was Al Mohler.
This is the time of great resolve and digging in to your faith. I would not recommend to leave but rather to take back your righteous place and stand strong in consolidation and faith!! Never stand down and allow the dark force to take hold, it is our duty to stand strong and protect the pulpit. As Davey Crockett said, "First be always sure you're right and then go ahead!" #parrhesia #standuptothewokemob
Run away...we are NOT to come into agreement with idols or demonic teaching. There can be no reformation when we dine at tables with false teachers and false preachers. We're called to expose the unfruitful works of darkness. Every believers allegiance must be to God--not a denomination.
Amen, well stated.
I Understand fully the feelings that everything we love seems to be dying. The way I got out of my funk in being depressed about these things, I looked to the example of Lazerous story, and how without his death there would not be the beautiful story of the resurrection. I am a former NAMB church planter, I appreciated my time with them, but I love the Independant ministry I am now having the privilege from God to be part of. There is hope and life in Christ, but it is His hope and Life, it may look different than what we thought it would, but it’s his and it’s better. Loved your thoughts here and the easy understandability of the message. Keep up the good work my brother. Love from Ethiopia.
Thank you for the rousing reminder to be thankful for all that He has provided. Including the clarity given at the convention.
For God so loved the world that he didn't send conventions and committees.
In one Southern Baptist Church they actually had a Committee on Committees. Sweet.
I attend a Southern Baptist congregation. The purposes of the SBC are missions, education, benevolence and social services to further the kingdom of God at home and abroad. My local congregation like others is self-governed. My work and church have given me opportunity to serve short-term on 5 of the 7 continents and in multiple closed countries. Our men associate annually with up to 20 other churches (SBC and independent) to build. We work in disaster relief organized by SBC. I know my congregation is imperfect, but in cooperation with others we build in God's kingdom physically and spiritually. We could achieve some of this as an independent congregation, but it is edifying to cooperate in kingdom building (even if mistakes are made and they do not meet everyone's ideals). Thank you for holding everyone accountable. May God grant us grace and mercy to walk more faithfully daily as our lives are transformed. I can't imagine a more fulfilling Christian participation than I have experienced, but God is so good that I know He has more and I'm only a septuagenarian. Seek to edify brother. It is easy to find fault among sinners, but as the trope goes, "God is not finished with us yet."
Just to encourage everyone... because disunity and division breaks my heart and for a while I was struggling with how the devil was infiltrating with so much false teaching and we just keep being fractured in spite of JEsus's prayer in John 17 involving unity (which I see my once beloved Francis Chan has adopted at any cost to great peril of his position in truth), and I was reading through the New Testament when a verse jumped out at me like never before:
"18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part,[a] 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized." 1ccor11
God's true church isn't dividing - it's like that Church John said he attended in upstate new york. The great "falling away" is happening prior to the end. we need to focus on the gospel primarily, and making disciples. Jesus is letting this crap happen because it must happen before "the man of lawlessness is revealed," and Jesus wants His bride.
I didn't grow up in Church but ended up attending church later on when I got older, in my late teens but I have always respected the southern Baptist church, because they have always been the more bible believing Christians. it's a shame the social justice, has started infecting the Southern Baptist community.
I have been under a rock although there have been some things that have not sat right with me about my church and their focus on diversity. They focus on racial diversity and one of the 14 goals they want to achieve by 2026 says no one culture will make up more than 50 percent of the church. In addition, I was listening to the Truth in Love broadcast last Thursday and found out about Resolution 9. I started doing my research. I cannot believe that the only issue my pastor has ever had an issue with is the sexual abuse stuff, but not Resolution 9 or anything else? Also I feel there is this focus on diversity. Right now it is racial diversity. Then I started noticing other red flags. A podcast on Diversity and the Gospel where the pastor being interviewed started off by saying because he was Korean he never fit in at church growing up. And then our worship pastor acknowledged Juneteenth and pointed out our diversity based on the different ethnic makeup. Why focus on this? And there are some other things too. They don't sit right. Time to leave
Scripture is being fulfilled. Come quickly Lord Jesus.
As a former catholic I believe that church is more conservative on abortion than the SBC….
Not after the resolution they just passed by an overwhelming majority.
I hope you decide to come back to the faith someday.
This is why we switched to an independent fundamental Baptist church. It’s been so amazing!!! All glory to God!! Stay strong saints until His return!
What hurts the most is the blatant hypocrisy. I believe that’s why Jesus condemned it so strongly throughout the Gospels. For example, I recall one of Dr. Adam Greenway’s lectures at seminary where he essentially warned us that if we couldn’t adhere to the Baptist Faith and Message that we should not become Southern Baptist ministers. However, I found on his facebook page a post where he congratulates Dr. Ed Litton for being elected and says that they’re looking forward to his leadership this year. Doesn’t the man allow his wife to “preach” in the pulpit? Is that not against the BF&M?
He congratulated Litton? Wow! That is serious stuff.
I feel like this is the end of the world coming.
@@tonyv1695 While I can appreciate the sarcasm, my point is that there appears to be a clear double-standard in what many so-called leaders in the SBC say to their students and/or their congregations as opposed to what they say or how they respond when someone who is clearly in error wins in certain SBC political situations. That’s the part I mentioned about hypocrisy. But hey, thanks for your pithy and well-thought out reply…
This is the Lord’s doing. Time for His true church to be revealed.
Amen Jon, I am very thankful Gal 2:20. The worst thing that could happen to me is not to be converted, I am not oppressed, the joy of the Lord is my strength "God bless" Is 41:10
Jon, did you leave the SBC? If so, what are you doing now? Did you go to another denomination, or are you attending a house church? What do you advise?
We left the SBC several years ago and now attend an IFB church. The SBC lost its way years ago.
Hopefully your words of wisdom on moving forward and starting a new are things people will consider. Im neither Baptist nor Southern Baptist..... what I am is a miracle because Jesus loves us . And while people fight and posture overr rules , bylaws , and tradions in between the translation they seem to lose focus of the true purpose of what our aim is to be ..... to preach the gospel of good news . LUKE 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.” All one can do is hope and pray . To try and get them to see their errors. God's loving mercies be yours always.
1. woke
2. woke
3. woke
4. woke
5. woke
6. woke
7. woke
8. woke
These are eight good reasons to get as far away from them as possible.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist church which was a fairly reserved congregation which become more spirited. I am now Episcopalian. Baptists are like any other denomination and vary by congregation. Williston First Baptist nearly broke up over a child bringing a black friend to church. The average black worshipper is more spirited than whites, so there is rarely danger of a black takeover of a white church.
I was at the convention and much of this is true. I did not feel comfortable at times and scratched my head at some of the floors voting. Stone won the most votes first, but then lost to litton. He's not squeaky clean either (Stone) but better overall than litton.
I will say we my small church I pastor is going to stay for the next year and see how things play out. If conservatives thought this way 40 years ago it would have been lost long ago and we'd be worse off. Then liberalism was obvious and abhorrent. There are still many conservatives today. I urge everyone to go to Anaheim next year and stand tall calling out the evil and hypocrisy. If next year is like this year, or worse then its time to go
In essentials unity, in non essentials, liberty, in all things, charity. St Augustine
Splits and multiple sub splits will continue as long as people make orthodoxy out of non-essentials. Nothing will ever be orthodox enough for those who cannot accomodate differing views on non-essentials which many have confused for essentials.
I can only recommend Iain Murray's series on church history. Simply put, scholarship qualifies a man for nothing in the true Church. The SBC bears no resemblance to the New Testament Church. When Al Mohler signed the Manhattan Declaration (a revision of ETC) the handwriting was on the wall, not only for SBC, but also for mainstream evangelicalism. The blind leading the blind.
There have always been problems with the SBC. Hershchel Hobbs was "Mr. Baptist" himself and in 1980 he stood up for inerrancy and literally got BOOED! He had been a former president of the SBC in the 60's and helped draft the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message Statement. Later in that decade came the Moral Majority and guys like Adrian Rogers and W.A. Criswell helped lead a conservative resurgence but that's all long gone. Jerry Vines was also a great conservative voice. Now it's all about the hipsters and virtue signalers taking over but it's not exactly anything new.
I went to Glorieta for College Student Week in 1987 or 88. Herschel Hobbs was a speaker that week. Before one of the services he was sitting there all along in the pews so I went and introduced my self and asked him about being a preacher. He told me to look at one of the speakers already sitting on the podium. Hershchel told me, "just remember, when you sit up on the podium, people can see your socks. Make sure they match!"
@@greg54444 That's really cool! My mentor got to sit under Herschel at Carson Newman College a lot WAY back in the day and he loved him. I've also talked to multiple people that met him and everyone always spoke highly of him. One guy told me that he was one of those people that when you met him if you asked him to pray about something he would literally just put his arm around you and pray right there on the spot. He wrote his autobiography called My Faith and Message and in it he told the story of when he met JFK and he asked him if it would be alright to have prayer with him and JFK told him yeah and he prayed with him right in the Oval Office. He was a GREAT man and he goes on my personal "Mt Rushmore" of preachers for sure.
The loss of 288,000 church members last year brings total SBC membership to 14.5 million, down from its peak of 16.3 million in 2006. Average worship attendance remained relatively stable at 5.2 million.
Southern Baptist make their own rules. I’ve never learnt anything when I was a member at a southern baptist church. Way too much back biting members.
Sounds like a split would be better for everyone involved.
I grew up Southern Baptist and had been one for almost all of my life until we left the last SBC church we were a part of in early 2011 due to problems with not only our pastor, but also our associational director, who sided with him even though he was clearly in the wrong. And that was before things REALLY got bad at the national level. I just praise God we got out before the SBC's leftward drift. We now go to a little country church that's affiliated with the General Baptists.
Got a subscriber from me! Excellent video!
I’m sure thinking my church will
Great voice for radio.
Point 1: Have no fellowship with unbelievers!
Point 2: See point 1
Point 3: See point 1
Point 4: See point 1
Point 5: See (well, you get the point)
Ther is sin in the camp and the sbc needs to repent. Judgement is coming.
When they divided from the Old School and set up a new School in the 1800s the writing was on the wall remove not the ancient Landmarks. Black rock Association meeting in 1889 the division between the Old School and the New School research it
Just finished listening to Todd Friel's take on the SBC post-convention and was deeply disappointed by him to the point that I've unsubscribed from his show. The SBC, as an organization, is clearly now a wicked one. This isn't a battle between conservative and a little less conservative. These are liberals and you now this for the following reasons: They are happy being pro-life in a country that has canonized baby murder, anti-CRT in name while pro-CRT in action and belief, pro-biblical marriage in a country where same sex marriage is law...need I go on? The SBC is a microcosm of our once many trustworthy and helpful institutions in the United States, but they have lost all credibility. Jon is spot on this. If your SBC church won't leave the convention, get out of that church and go to an independent baptist church. If you live in an area with an SBC church, you are HIGHLY LIKELY to be able to find another baptist church that's not entangled in this organization of deceipt.
Excellent points - in the absence of true Holy Spirit revival and God caused change - it is demographics that will drive everything and all of those are going in the wrong direction for the SBC. However there are still true followers in Jesus and the Holy Spirit is still active. As you say our lives are short let's make them count - working in God's Kingdom instead of those built by man's hands over which the devil presides to keep people "busy" in the worries of the world.
Helpful video. Anyone interested to hear an SBC leader give excellent reasons why he left. He also explains how he announced it to his church. Justin Peters interviewed pastor Casey Butner on Justin’s channel.
I recommend watching to learn some inside problems the SBC is not sharing in public.
Good video Jon. Thanks
Right on. Don't waste any more time or money with the SBC.
The greatest reformation movements never happened from within denominations, they always happened by separation.
How many Baptist denominations/associations are there already?
Maybe separation is necessary sometimes, but I think people in general are too prone to it.
The original Baptists were known as Separatists; and this was before the Protestant Reformation...
What? No. Christ said we are to be one Body and prayed that we would be one. Separation means death, theologically, morally, socially. That is the fruit of Protestantism
@@jmjaquinas7298 ...not sure to whom you are replying; however, the term "Sepratists" for the original Baptists was an issue over infant baptism. Well before the actions of Martin Luther.
Going back even further, the Great Schism of the 3rd century church over the issue of the Filioque further divided "the churches in Christ"... one would need to emulate the 1st. century church to even approach the "oneness in Christ". The Orthodox Church is "closest", in that regard, but instituted practices during the later 2nd. century which are not in keeping with neither Petrine nor Pauline Apistology.
Very well done Jon! Thank you!
Thank you for your work brother.
This is helpful. I want to stay with my local church because of my age and lack of family and personal transportation where I live. Please pray for me.
Jon, I understand your thinking on this and while I find it fairly convincing, I also think Rod Martin makes a great argument for staying. At the beginning of this podcast you suggested you were willing to open your platform to someone with name recognition who held the opposite perspective. I heard him talking with Founders and with Cross Politic about it, and think a discussion between the two of you about this would be edifying even though you hold opposite perspectives.
I Pastored a First Baptist Church years ago, I saw the writing on the wall and we disassociated with the convention and stopped dealing with them. I left later & they've gotten back in unfortunately
Whoever plays Christian stuff, If we don't LIVE according to God's Word there is no right period! It is all wrong!
There's only one reason to leave any Southern Baptist Church.....personal integrity.
Good stuff. Keep it coming.
Stay until they kick you out. (and give them reason to).
17:19 getting to the brass tacks
Seventeen minutes into it brother? I’m on a lunch break.
@@sellmorehomesnow just helping you skip all the fluff and get to the issues at hand
17?
@@snrynkee ugh. Are you guys really this dense?
@@kentfink9509 yes
It’s the humans in sin. The pride of position and power. The “world” cannot but seduce even Christians. My impulse would be to treat them as unregenerate or fallen. As a group that’s how they are operating. Very sad. With love
Great show with concerns for the direction the SBC is moving to. My view is the Love of God transcends culture and diversity with spiritual transformation for all regardless of race colour religion creed or political beliefs .
Bump to Al Gore's Rhythm because this is more and more relevant after every SBC presidential election.
Sbc this year was trying to put in an amendment to discontinue the calvinest teaching that started with the founder and has always been in the Baptist, like once saved always saved, pre destination by God, picked for salvation and you can't lose it, or the other teaching everything is Gods will, whether good or bad, but they didn't put in the amendment to get calvinism out
Left the SBC for the Episcopal Church. I was in a church that was so legalistic that it became too much to tolerate.
Keep up the good work! Excellent
Interesting and thoughtful presentation of your concern for SBC. However you were more than halfway through your presentation before actually giving your "8 Reasons". (At the 17:32 min mark of a 32:59 minutes video)
This first half was spent on background and comments about the general take over of SBC by social justice advocates and liberal woke theology. Those were important to know but i think you could have included that info and opinions as you went through each of the 8 reasons. You did do this to some extent but it was a repeat of points you made in the 17minute "preamble".
With that said i do believe you have raise issues for every faithful follower of Christ to consider if they are attending a SBC affiliated congregation.
I have subscribed to your channel to read your other post.
I will continue to strive to follow the example of the Bereans to test all teachings related to Christian Faith and practice against what the Bible actually says letting Scripture interrupt Scripture rather than other men's opinions.
Im glad you closed with core of the Gospel : Ephesians 2:89.
You make excellent points, though when I went to SBC churches, they were becoming too far right and political. After going to college I joined a independent Baptist church(at the time I had no idea there was such a thing). For 4 years I actually enjoyed going to Church and experiencing God's peace. But after graduation I returned home and the SBC (there were no independent Baptist churches in my hometown and frankly going to SBC churches was the only way to meet people my age) where I met my ex-fiancé. After we broke up, I tried to find other churches and completely frustrated with not finding that peace I felt in college especially for healing I left the SBC for good. Here are my eight reasons why I left the SBC and why Christians should never join them.
#8 Sermons are more theatrical.
The last time I went to a SBC service, it was like being a part of a Oprah TV show where the leaders would talk and as if just for show. It all seemed fake to me and not a true representation of how we should worship God.
#7 Lack of mission/community service and activities within church.
The church that I grew up wasn't very active in our community and had few opportunities to serve. The church I go now (a Methodist church) is very active and has fundraising events at least twice a month.
#6 Lack of friendliness
I never seemed to fit in in a SBC church especially during my high school days. Nobody ever reached out to me, or made me or other people feel welcome. In fact, I experienced a bit of a culture shock when I joined the Independent Baptist Church and a non-denominational Christian group that each had leaders reaching out to me and offering to have coffee with me while reading the bible or other materials. I since then try to lead by their example and be friendly and welcoming to all even our brothers and sisters that are shy and seemed neglected.
#5 Becoming too political
Like I mentioned, the SBC that I know are becoming more far right and political. In most SBC sermons, something political has to be mentioned. The last time I went to a SBC service, the preacher talked about Roe vs Wade being overturned (it was the first thing he mentioned in fact). It does seem to me that you have to be a repblican in order to be a proper Christian ( or so they say) I don’t like politics and it’s my belief that politics ruin everything including region. I want to worship God in peace not hear politics.
#4 History of discrimination/hatred
The SBC was started because the Baptist that owned slaves thought it was Christian to do so and the abolitionists thought otherwise. Since then, the SBC has continued to discriminate against blacks and use the Bible to support discrimination and segregation. The SBC has also spoken negatively against Jews, Muslims, freemasons, Catholics, liberals, and any other non-conservative/ non-Baptist groups and beliefs based on misinterpretations or in my opinion abuse from the Bible. In fact, my ex-fiancé dumped me for being a freemason after going through a Christian revival after losing a job. Since becoming a member, I have received links from dedicated Christians about why the organization is not biblical.
#3 Leaders/members are more concerned about being Baptists than being Christians.
Growing up, I often hear my preacher talk about other denominations and religions and what they believe. “But that’s not what we believe” He would often say. My mother, when I was at college, reminded me that I’m a southern Baptist. I resent those statements because it is telling us that the loyalty of the SBC is to the organization itself not to God and the teachings of the Lord Jesus. I considered it a vivid example of lacking an open mind, which is necessary for enhancement and improvement, and excluding those that disagree with the orthodoxy of the SBC.
#2 Leaders/Teachings are corrupt and hypocritical
My SBC preacher was a leader in a mega church and lived in one of the richest neighborhoods in our county. I always thought that that was inappropriate as he should be living a moderate life and dedicated much of the earnings to the mission and community service not so he can live rich and play golf. Also, the SBC leaders had been covering up sexual abuse charges against some of its leaders. This is incredibly wrong and evil not to mention hypocritical as we should expose them as it is written in Ephesians 5:11-12. The SBC is also not a loving community, as they show discontent with homosexuals and liberals. While the acceptance of homosexuals is a bit controversial, I see no reason why we shouldn't love them as Christ wanted us to and to show mercy.
#1 Becoming more and more like a cult
Because of the abovementioned, especially #2 and #3, I have started to view the SBC more and more like a cult dedicated only to extraction wealth from membership, preservation of own political ideology instead of the truth of God, protecting corrupt leaders, and misusing the bible to justify otherwise unsound doctrine.
While I pray that the SBC will continue to be depleted as a result, I do hope that they will find the errors of their ways and revived themselves to be the proper beacon of light that God wanted them to be.
The 2 church's back in the 80s and early 90s..you mentioned potluck dinners...we called them potbless dinners..and Wednesday home Fellowship. Pastors wife always had something for the Women and missionary come to share what God was doing were they where..and National day of prayer..We would hooked up to other churches around our area...praying for our Nation.....What happened????We didn't play Church, We had Church...
Praise Christ!!!
Yes the word ""luck"" is of the word lucifer.
Like the word ""magic"" is not used by Believers; we say ""Majestic"" instead.
Talk about First Baptists? Abraham and Lot ; “ You go your way and I go my way !”
But all on the Pilgrimage ! Still caring and not harming !That’s Kingdom People !
A Black pastor talked about OT/NT : Classic/Specific! Inspired me to develop what I wrote on FB ! A) Religiously: Abraham/ Lot: Personal God / Seculariszd god ; B) Politically: OT/NT-Constitution/ Bylaw C) OT/NT-Principle/Practical; D) interpersonally: hurt/harm:-family relations hurt but a lesson to learn ; Street confrontation is to harm and kill to avoid !
First baptists because they split from each other.
I have been attending Independent Baptist Fundamentalist churches. 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
Better orthodox Presbyterian or Reformed Anglican.
@@Acek-ok9dp no argument or debate, but no thank you☺️. I’ve tried those, (not for the sake of denomination, but for the sake of looking for a church that preached the Word and also applied the Word. Everything with Truth and love and also a church that was active not just in abroad but also and emphasis in local soul winning).
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@Conversationsthatmatter apparently, you missed it, Apple Pie IS racist! Check out the Guardian article (I don't think we can link to external sites here) entitled, "Food injustice has deep roots: let’s start with America’s apple pie". Here's a "highlight"... "John Chapman, better known as Johnny Appleseed, took these markers of colonized property to the frontiers of US expansion where his trees stood as symbols that Indigenous communities had been extirpated."
So, unfortunately, you're going to have to remove something else from the "something you love" list... Apple pie.
I’m proud to be a Southern. I never owned slaves, I don’t apologize for anything!!!!
Did The Reformers reform the Catholic Church, Or did they leave and start Protestantism??
That's absolutely right. If you don't like your religion, you are free to leave. I'm a cafeteria Catholic, participating in the elements I agree with, vocally rejected the areas if dogma I don't agree with. I think there are lots if people in the church.
They started a man-made sect called PROTESTANTISM. Which continues to split and split and split....
If you leave - do you get to keep the hard assets? The UMC voted for true conservatives to leave and the liberal upcomers get to keep all the hard assets (which is completely preposterous - and, so, we left the UMC.
Adonai is my light and salvation, whom should I fear. Psalms 27:1