You outsmarted the joker that left the info out of the service info. Great job figuring out and explaining how the ignition switch and BCM work together to crank the engine.
Years ago, I figured out to always look for something that didn't belong from the factory before I spent the time to look for a problem. It always proves me right
Excellent troubleshooting. First thing I did to my grandkids cars was to rip that aftermarket crap out when fixing a electrical issue. Hint: To make that Fluke meter respond faster, take it out of auto scale mode. In manual mode the meter does not have to think to determine the required range.
Idk I make pretty decent and don’t hardly ever have to replace a part lol but yes really hanging parts is easy to sell. Telling someone it’s gonna be a few hundred dollars just tell them what’s wrong is a little harder sell but we are trying to correct the industry and get the value of our knowledge paid for.
@@autodiagyt Honestly, I do diagnosis first because I find that intellectually challenging and I just love that. Well, I make less money but that is okay. Life is too shot not to do what you really like. Btw, very much appreciate your sharing insights. Cheers.
I had same problem 6 months ago. Used car lot just wanted to replace ignition switch. After that didn't work they approved diagnosis. Remove add on part and problem fixed.
nice. i love these electrical studies. gives us newbs a change to reinforce the electrical basics through YOUR eyes and hands. I only fix my own and luckily (Or unluckily) I've never had an electrical issue with my 3. only boring brakes and door-handles... The wife did say her power seat stopped going forward for a few days, maybe I can convince her I need a new 4 channel Pico to fix it...
So, service info did not show that part of the operation. Your thought process with the wiring diagram and the scope proved how it worked, and the 194 bulb proved the problem. Your experience with aftermarket items found the root cause of the problem. WOW! That aftermarket part would have contributed to a starter motor shortened life span. Great Diagnostic Jake! Thank you for this video.
Great Diag. You're the man! ;) It shows how important it is to have a wiring diagram that has all the info. You figured it out when you had the entire diagram where when you only had the first diagram it could have thrown you for a loop. Awesome find and great thinking.
Your knowledge of using overlay in your diagnostics is incredible. Drawing red lines and forming boxes over the circuits really helps me follow along better. I'm more used to trouble shooting with schematics that have the reference signals and voltages under a diagnostics loop
People think an ignition switch is an ignition switch like seen years ago handling 12V when now all it is is a sensor handling a low ref voltage and sending a signal voltage to BCM so it can control the real ignition switch-the run/crank relay and that relay is the real ignition switch for loads to be wired to. Thanks for sharing.
Another weird case! I immediately said "it's the ignition switch", as worn out ignition switches can do crazy things, but that only lasted until I saw the second scope line, showing some capacitance holding the voltage. Very clear minded analysis, Jake! And without the scope and your rational thinking, there would be parts thrown at it. Very interesting and cautionary video!
JAKE, YOU ROCK BROTHER AWESOME APPROACH AND THOUGHT PROCESS TO DIAGNOSE TODAYS CAR A SCOPE IS MUST IN MY OPENION GREAT VIDEO THANKS FOR SHARING CHEEEEERS FROM CANADA.
Very impressive diagnosis and explanation of the start circuit. Being a retired 50 year car wore veteran, my Las few years was working service at a used car dealer. We got lots of junk auction cars with crazy issues. I had no fancy equipment to work with. I barely had a working scan tool. But my go to was looking for aftermarket garbage. Most of the time that was the failure. Backup cameras and remote starts. When they get old they become failure points for sure. Great work! I love your videos along with Ivan's. You both have a bit of Howndog bred into you!
Nice find! Great thinking process! Above and beyond the capabilities of most technicians today. I'm sure with experience, you could just go looking for something aftermarket and cross your fingers, but to prove it before hand is top notch! Thanks for sharing!
That was a serious diagnosis, well done on that. It can be really hard to understand what is going on with modern cars even with the diagrams. Great video 💪💪💪💪
Your meter is fast enough... just take it out of autorange and into manual range 60. Then you see everything from 0 to 60V. At the end this is a 6000 count meter.
sloped voltage is almost always a discharging capacitor. that dropping out so far down then sloping could have also been a zenor diode. remember when manufacturers would put an accessory location on the fuse box? hmm maybe a reason why they dont any more. if that item wasnt so cheap they could have added a diode and a bleed resistor it wouldn't have been a problem
Yes I used to tie into the acc wire all the time on these vehicles when I did car stereo but I always used a 2amp diode and it was only used as a remote turn on wire and not to power something.
My daughters Honda Civic had an aftermarket remote start and it was starting her car during her work day when her remote starter remote control was 20 miles away at her house. I found the controller sending a signal when it picked up a signal from a short in the wiring (scotchlok connections). I disconnected the remote start and she had her gas mileage back to normal and her engine only ran when the original equipment ignition switch said it should.
Jake this video kind of teachers all of us that when a vehicle displays weird electrical issues the first step in fixing the issues look to see if there is anything installed that didn’t come with the vehicle to start with. Is this a car lot vehicle and wonder how long its had the problem? I would kind of think it would show up as soon as the wires were tapped into. What were those extra wires powering? Any way thanks for sharing Jake I know I learned an important troubleshooting step. 👍
Great video and case study. I don’t know how many times I have taken off leftover wiring after most of that old system had been removed. Aftermarket car alarms seem to be the worst offenders since they tap in all sorts of places. It’s always great when you can fix it by taking something off. 😂😂
oh yes how does it work and what does it want 👍 . interesting for history in the truck like when did it start doing it or if it’s been like that since they got it
Time to consult the owner. When I was working on cars and trucks if the vehicle was equipped with an after market remote start system I generally refused to work on it. Of course this was in a flat rate shop.
🤣 I didn't get that....Could you try again.! Lol Geat diag Jake. Taking the time to further investigate the logic of that switch and then obviously once again, the power of the lab-scope to proved out the issue. Honestly, I thought it was going to be someones aftermarket auto start crap before you even went there with that rear view camera junk. Again...Awesome find and great captures of how that circuit works. 🤩👍
Dam good job Jake . Soak him good.i had a viper alarm put in my new dodge p up I picked it up and the abs like stayed on I told the cs to take it out right away and the light was out. Those alarm guys tap in to any thing that's got power. Ps happy father's day .sam
I am a huge fan Jake BUT, I have an issue with Techs all over UA-cam owning a 4-channel scope and hooking up ONE channel, I don't remember Bernie Thompson doing this, the problem would have been found easily at the time the meter was hooked up when a scope ought to have used as the best tool IMHO. BUT I must say thank you for the longer lesson involved in this one. I need to go over to my Toyota library and see who stole this idea from the other, TOY or GM, as TOY had a cranking problem too for years through several Generations of vehicles until they removed this auto sense timed crank-related problem. Actually the temp fix was to cut a single wire so I can see why your friend was on the right track to depin that one wire. As for your meter being slow, is there a setting to turn off AUTO RANGE so it does not have to search? I don't own a FLUKE but if you have a setting, then set it on 25V (within your test range)? it should be faster??? Thanks for all your videos Brother. -NPR
Nicely done! Beautiful example of "test, don't guess." If you wanted to keep that aftermarket module, adding a diode in series with the unit would fix the issue, keeping the capacitor from draining back into the ACC line. Manufacturer was evidently too cheap/dumb to do that.
That resistor is probably a limiting resistor in conjunction with a capacitor thats wasn't drawn in the wiring diagram. Having a schematic of the ecm and that ignition circuit with reference voltages or reference signals would help greatly. I know wats wrong it it ain't got no gas😂🤣 or it ain't got no ground 🤣😂😂😂
great case study, while it would have not made for a good video if you found bulletin PIT4016F which is exactly the issue it was. much cooler to watch the diagnostic process you followed.
I rarely look for bulletins. I’d prefer to just follow the data. Being able to think logically and develop your own test plans will carry you much further than searching for tsb’s with silver bullets. I read that bulletin after I recorded the video and for me it made some sense but I couldn’t visualize it. Seeing it with a scope made it very clear what was going on and why. So hopefully that is what people take away from my videos.
@@autodiagyt Thats why i really like your videos as well as Ivan over at PHAD. As a dealer tech thats all i do is drivability and electrical, but also as a dealer tech if i dont check for bulletins and there is one published i dont get paid time spent for diag lol. Customer pay is hard to sell even 1 extra hour above the 1 hour pre authorized for any issue. Thats where the bad dealer tech stigma comes from. Everyone expects us to have that magic silver bullet. Keep up the good work, thanks.
@@jeffco908 I was a dealer tech so I know how it is. Service advisor won’t try to sell 3 hours of diag but will sell a 3 hour starter no problem and that doesn’t fix it you still gotta figure the problem out for free.
People and their friggen add-ons and they think if a wire is hot I can tap right there. Not realizing a lot of times it's being monitored. I guess what a fellar needs to do first thing is do a visual check and look for after market shit! But a better question would be just how to charge for something like this? I don't know how much time you actually used but I'd charge for it all!
@@autodiagyt If that customer put that on I'll bet he doesn't feel real good and if he bought it that way, I'll bet doesn't feel any better. lol I do wonder how long that was happening cuz surely it didn't just start.
Jake when Ivan says place your bets now he would bet the farm on you and I would to Artificial intelligence can't fix it but real intelligence can Nice logical work Jake 💯
![Intermittent No Start [Magnetic Type Crank Sensor Testing - ALL CARS!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tqnNsFdifSE/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice! Negative Parts Required is always a win 😁👌
You outsmarted the joker that left the info out of the service info. Great job figuring out and explaining how the ignition switch and BCM work together to crank the engine.
Years ago, I figured out to always look for something that didn't belong from the factory before I spent the time to look for a problem. It always proves me right
Scope visualize the fault perfectly. Great. Thank you Jake.
Excellent troubleshooting. First thing I did to my grandkids cars was to rip that aftermarket crap out when fixing a electrical issue.
Hint: To make that Fluke meter respond faster, take it out of auto scale mode. In manual mode the meter does not have to think to determine the required range.
Yes agreed but the visual aspect of the scope makes it even better
Diagnostics with aftermarket garbage found as the cause should be an EXTRA charge. This should be a thing, lol. World class diags!
Thanks for your patience and details, something not easy to pick up. Oh, btw the truth is throwing parts makes more money - plain simple truth.
Idk I make pretty decent and don’t hardly ever have to replace a part lol but yes really hanging parts is easy to sell. Telling someone it’s gonna be a few hundred dollars just tell them what’s wrong is a little harder sell but we are trying to correct the industry and get the value of our knowledge paid for.
@@autodiagyt Honestly, I do diagnosis first because I find that intellectually challenging and I just love that. Well, I make less money but that is okay. Life is too shot not to do what you really like. Btw, very much appreciate your sharing insights. Cheers.
Man this was a terrific case study! Very interesting process to dial in the issue. Lots of techs would have thrown a switch at it…
You never cease to amaze me. I have learned so much from you and I can't thank you enough.
I had same problem 6 months ago. Used car lot just wanted to replace ignition switch. After that didn't work they approved diagnosis. Remove add on part and problem fixed.
nice. i love these electrical studies. gives us newbs a change to reinforce the electrical basics through YOUR eyes and hands. I only fix my own and luckily (Or unluckily) I've never had an electrical issue with my 3. only boring brakes and door-handles... The wife did say her power seat stopped going forward for a few days, maybe I can convince her I need a new 4 channel Pico to fix it...
So, service info did not show that part of the operation. Your thought process with the wiring diagram and the scope proved how it worked, and the 194 bulb proved the problem. Your experience with aftermarket items found the root cause of the problem.
WOW!
That aftermarket part would have contributed to a starter motor shortened life span.
Great Diagnostic Jake! Thank you for this video.
Great case study! I admire your patients to actually diagnose it and not first pull out all the aftermarket stuff.
Great Diag. You're the man! ;)
It shows how important it is to have a wiring diagram that has all the info. You figured it out when you had the entire diagram where when you only had the first diagram it could have thrown you for a loop. Awesome find and great thinking.
This one is a nice scope tutorial, me and my multimeter wouldn't figure out that ,I really need a scope ,thanks for that one
Yes this is a prime video for why scopes should be a quick grab tool.
Your knowledge of using overlay in your diagnostics is incredible. Drawing red lines and forming boxes over the circuits really helps me follow along better. I'm more used to trouble shooting with schematics that have the reference signals and voltages under a diagnostics loop
GREAT VIDEO as always . Man you are right there with Eric and Ivan in my eyes. Love the videos man keep them coming
People think an ignition switch is an ignition switch like seen years ago handling 12V when now all it is is a sensor handling a low ref voltage and sending a signal voltage to BCM so it can control the real ignition switch-the run/crank relay and that relay is the real ignition switch for loads to be wired to. Thanks for sharing.
We learn a lot from you. Greetings from Iraq
Another weird case! I immediately said "it's the ignition switch", as worn out ignition switches can do crazy things, but that only lasted until I saw the second scope line, showing some capacitance holding the voltage. Very clear minded analysis, Jake! And without the scope and your rational thinking, there would be parts thrown at it. Very interesting and cautionary video!
you get the craziest faults, wish I could get stuff like this to play with and learn
JAKE, YOU ROCK BROTHER AWESOME APPROACH AND THOUGHT PROCESS TO DIAGNOSE TODAYS CAR A SCOPE IS MUST IN MY OPENION GREAT VIDEO THANKS FOR SHARING CHEEEEERS FROM CANADA.
Very impressive diagnosis and explanation of the start circuit.
Being a retired 50 year car wore veteran, my Las few years was working service at a used car dealer. We got lots of junk auction cars with crazy issues. I had no fancy equipment to work with. I barely had a working scan tool. But my go to was looking for aftermarket garbage. Most of the time that was the failure. Backup cameras and remote starts. When they get old they become failure points for sure. Great work! I love your videos along with Ivan's. You both have a bit of Howndog bred into you!
Nice find! Great thinking process! Above and beyond the capabilities of most technicians today. I'm sure with experience, you could just go looking for something aftermarket and cross your fingers, but to prove it before hand is top notch!
Thanks for sharing!
Test light was a good call, I liked that.
yeah, I was ready to replace the ignition switch when you were.
Jake, that was pretty incredible. Great scope work. I think you had us all thinking on this one. (Man, that really hurts!) Thanks for Sharing! 🙃🙂
That was a serious diagnosis, well done on that. It can be really hard to understand what is going on with modern cars even with the diagrams. Great video 💪💪💪💪
Your meter is fast enough... just take it out of autorange and into manual range 60. Then you see everything from 0 to 60V. At the end this is a 6000 count meter.
Even off of auto range it’s still not going to show you the cause of this issue. A scope makes it’s pretty clear something is happening.
Superb ! This was a great diag and total explanation Thanks
Great video. Enjoyed the illustration and visual when using the wiring diagram. Thanks for your time and effort.
sloped voltage is almost always a discharging capacitor. that dropping out so far down then sloping could have also been a zenor diode. remember when manufacturers would put an accessory location on the fuse box? hmm maybe a reason why they dont any more. if that item wasnt so cheap they could have added a diode and a bleed resistor it wouldn't have been a problem
Yes I used to tie into the acc wire all the time on these vehicles when I did car stereo but I always used a 2amp diode and it was only used as a remote turn on wire and not to power something.
My daughters Honda Civic had an aftermarket remote start and it was starting her car during her work day when her remote starter remote control was 20 miles away at her house. I found the controller sending a signal when it picked up a signal from a short in the wiring (scotchlok connections). I disconnected the remote start and she had her gas mileage back to normal and her engine only ran when the original equipment ignition switch said it should.
Excellent video and explanation as always. Another great simple one.
Jake this video kind of teachers all of us that when a vehicle displays weird electrical issues the first step in fixing the issues look to see if there is anything installed that didn’t come with the vehicle to start with. Is this a car lot vehicle and wonder how long its had the problem? I would kind of think it would show up as soon as the wires were tapped into. What were those extra wires powering? Any way thanks for sharing Jake I know I learned an important troubleshooting step. 👍
It was a new car trade in and they didn't really know the history of it.
Awesome Diag as always and thank you for walking us through how you think during the whole process .
Awesome always learning something on this channel
Glad to hear it!
Great thought process Jake
Great job. I like the way you think things thru. I always learn something from your videos.
Wow, I thought straight Swatch, well done, thank you
Was thinking that the after market accessory causing a counter efm from a relay. Thanks, the old school guy
Great video and case study. I don’t know how many times I have taken off leftover wiring after most of that old system had been removed. Aftermarket car alarms seem to be the worst offenders since they tap in all sorts of places. It’s always great when you can fix it by taking something off. 😂😂
great diagnostic , smart logic good job
GOOD ONE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME !!!!!!!!!!
I worked at a body shop / used car lot for 10 years and removed hundreds of aftermarket garbage causing all sorts of problems
oh yes how does it work and what does it want 👍 . interesting for history in the truck like when did it start doing it or if it’s been like that since they got it
You shining in every diag❤❤❤❤❤
Awesome diagnosis! Thanks
Great case study
Good video. Thank you for sharing
Time to consult the owner. When I was working on cars and trucks if the vehicle was equipped with an after market remote start system I generally refused to work on it. Of course this was in a flat rate shop.
modified the circuit till it broke lol sweet diag 😊😊👍👍
Excellent video
excellent. no parts required
🤣 I didn't get that....Could you try again.! Lol Geat diag Jake. Taking the time to further investigate the logic of that switch and then obviously once again, the power of the lab-scope to proved out the issue. Honestly, I thought it was going to be someones aftermarket auto start crap before you even went there with that rear view camera junk.
Again...Awesome find and great captures of how that circuit works. 🤩👍
Scope just makes it too simple to spot issues when you know how things should operate.
Amazing great job thank you.l
Excellent work!
Dam good job Jake . Soak him good.i had a viper alarm put in my new dodge p up I picked it up and the abs like stayed on I told the cs to take it out right away and the light was out. Those alarm guys tap in to any thing that's got power. Ps happy father's day .sam
Great job
Excellent video, sir!
Jake, nice find !!…did you ask the owner if he had ANY aftermarket parts or wiring in this case done to the car ??
This was a new car trade in at a dealership so history was unknown
It remembers my 87 Sentra it keep running for a few seconds.
Nobody was able to figured why.
I am a huge fan Jake BUT, I have an issue with Techs all over UA-cam owning a 4-channel scope and hooking up ONE channel, I don't remember Bernie Thompson doing this, the problem would have been found easily at the time the meter was hooked up when a scope ought to have used as the best tool IMHO. BUT I must say thank you for the longer lesson involved in this one. I need to go over to my Toyota library and see who stole this idea from the other, TOY or GM, as TOY had a cranking problem too for years through several Generations of vehicles until they removed this auto sense timed crank-related problem. Actually the temp fix was to cut a single wire so I can see why your friend was on the right track to depin that one wire. As for your meter being slow, is there a setting to turn off AUTO RANGE so it does not have to search? I don't own a FLUKE but if you have a setting, then set it on 25V (within your test range)? it should be faster??? Thanks for all your videos Brother. -NPR
It’s the black box on the backside of ignition messed up my ford did that
Grasias
Nicely done! Beautiful example of "test, don't guess."
If you wanted to keep that aftermarket module, adding a diode in series with the unit would fix the issue, keeping the capacitor from draining back into the ACC line. Manufacturer was evidently too cheap/dumb to do that.
Well done 👍
So the BCM must see approximately 4V to start the starter?
No it only needs to see the accessory voltage drop out with the ignition voltage to stay.
That resistor is probably a limiting resistor in conjunction with a capacitor thats wasn't drawn in the wiring diagram. Having a schematic of the ecm and that ignition circuit with reference voltages or reference signals would help greatly. I know wats wrong it it ain't got no gas😂🤣 or it ain't got no ground 🤣😂😂😂
great case study, while it would have not made for a good video if you found bulletin PIT4016F which is exactly the issue it was. much cooler to watch the diagnostic process you followed.
I rarely look for bulletins. I’d prefer to just follow the data. Being able to think logically and develop your own test plans will carry you much further than searching for tsb’s with silver bullets. I read that bulletin after I recorded the video and for me it made some sense but I couldn’t visualize it. Seeing it with a scope made it very clear what was going on and why. So hopefully that is what people take away from my videos.
@@autodiagyt Thats why i really like your videos as well as Ivan over at PHAD. As a dealer tech thats all i do is drivability and electrical, but also as a dealer tech if i dont check for bulletins and there is one published i dont get paid time spent for diag lol. Customer pay is hard to sell even 1 extra hour above the 1 hour pre authorized for any issue. Thats where the bad dealer tech stigma comes from. Everyone expects us to have that magic silver bullet. Keep up the good work, thanks.
@@jeffco908 I was a dealer tech so I know how it is. Service advisor won’t try to sell 3 hours of diag but will sell a 3 hour starter no problem and that doesn’t fix it you still gotta figure the problem out for free.
I once fixed a 2014 equinox that would randomly crank the engine without a key in it.
You sold it.
🤣
@@CJRock-xn5qf I mean Im no super hero but I did testing before I sold it.
That looks like an arcing waveform to me similar to ignition.. maybe bad capacitor
That was cool
People and their friggen add-ons and they think if a wire is hot I can tap right there. Not realizing a lot of times it's being monitored. I guess what a fellar needs to do first thing is do a visual check and look for after market shit! But a better question would be just how to charge for something like this? I don't know how much time you actually used but I'd charge for it all!
Yes I charged according.
@@autodiagyt If that customer put that on I'll bet he doesn't feel real good and if he bought it that way, I'll bet doesn't feel any better. lol I do wonder how long that was happening cuz surely it didn't just start.
@@billmonroe8826 it probably started when the camera was removed. That would have put a load on the capacitor to drain it.
nice work!!!!!!!!
Master
❤❤❤❤❤
Where are you located?
North Alabama
Sweet home north Alabama 🎵🎶🎵🎶😂
Jake when Ivan says place your bets now he would bet the farm on you and I would to
Artificial intelligence can't fix it but real intelligence can
Nice logical work Jake 💯
👏👍
Somebody fiddled so cut the string.
I'm wondering if it's happen in same time they fixed this garbage aftermarket stuff
Probably one diode will fix that problem.
Yes it would have. I used to use those circuits all the time in car stereo installations but I always put a diode in it.
Always some kind of aftermarket garbage.
Uncle Berny say As usual always aftermarket bs 😂
really smart approach
❤