No one on UA-cam comes close to the quality, depth and clarity of your gear reviews and demos. I've recently bought a mix pre 6ii to help me improve my video/audio quality and your videos have been tremendously helpful to me! I seem to have no trouble getting a great recording of most instruments but I've found dialogue recording and editing to always be challenging. Many thanks, Michael :)
@@lisan_al-ghaib honestly there are few better devices for recording. It’s going to lack the “tone” of a desiccated pre amp or mixer but for clarity this just can’t be beaten
The honesty and objectivity of the videos on this channel are very much appreciated. Specifically regarding this video, I don't understand why someone would click the Dislike button. Seriously, what is not to like with this one?
*Correction*: The MixPre pre-roll time also decreases when you record at higher sample rates (5 seconds at 96kHz & 2 seconds at 192kHz) Jump ahead: 00:11 Summary 01:03 How does it sound compared to Zoom F6? 01:58 Wide Dynamic Range 32-bit Float Recording 09:53 Other new features 11:55 What if you’re sending audio from your recorder to your camera? 13:09 MixPre II vs Zoom F6 - Advantages of each 23:25 Should I buy a Zoom F6 or MixPre II?
@Curtis Judd Curtis, THANK YOU for the excellent and informative comparison & review! 👍 For my personal workflow, one other significant feature of the MixPre units vs the Zoom F6 are the separate TA3/mini-XLR BALANCED Output jacks on the MixPre units. But I realize that this might not be as important to others and when used within their more common use case scenarios. *QUESTION* ... I already own & want to use some of my high-quality analog outboard Microphone Preamplifiers, such as the Millennia HV-3D-8 and AEA RPQ2 with the MixPre-10-II (mostly for location music production with passive & active ribbon mics & high-quality/low noise studio condenser mics)... @Paul Isaacs ...If I route the analog, line level, balanced output signals from my outboard mic preamps into the balanced analog combi XLR/TRS Input jacks on a MixPre 10-II, does the Line Input signal path completely BYPASS the built-in Kashmir mic preamp circuitry and feed directly into the ADC's in the MixPre??? Or would my outboard mic preamp's line level signal still route through the MixPre's Kashmir mic preamp circuitry before hitting the ADC??? ^Especially in regards to using the 32-bit Float recording format for wide dynamic range Classical music, drums/percussion, and EFX recording. THANKS!
Thanks I just got mine and noticed that 🙂. It’s not a deal breaker for me, but until I came back to read the comments I thought it was 10 across the board. Too good to be true I guess!
This is exactly the review I was looking for. I’m now decided on the Mix Pre 10 2. I’ll be primarily using it for recording music with field recording later. Thank you so much for your review. Very helpful!!
Great comprehensive coverage! Thanks! One thing I think is worth noting. In my extensive experience with high end audio recording and playback, the added warmth of the MixPre is likely a consequence of lower distortion rather than a coloration itself. It actually reveals more detail but less aggressively. Thanks again for your even handed attention to detail!
Great info! Nice to see such a in depth comparison of these highend mid range recorders. Decisions, decisions, still up in the air about my next recorder. Thx Curtis
Thanks for all of your videos. I have not done video and sound for a few years and they are helping me relearn old skills and learn some new skills. Recently I purchased a MixPre-6 II to replace a Sound Devices 302. I have had one major issue with it that has caused me to return it. I connected it to a Canon R5 through the tripod screw and via stereo out to mic on the camera. TC on the MixPre was off (though on or off did not change the result). I had a mic on channel one using phantom power though a mic was not necessary to get the issue to appear. The MixPre was powered via NP-F but at other times 4 AA cells. When recording all you could hear was the TC signal on the sound track. Remove the connection between the MixPre and the camera via the tripod screw and the sound goes away. I tried many setting for video and audio. No change. I managed to get the sound to come through a Ninja V+ that connected to the camera hot shoe with an aluminium bracket. The Ninja was connected to the R5 with an HMDI cable. The MixPre was connected to the Ninja via stereo out to mic in on the Ninja. I also tried a Canon R3 with similar results. Working with Sound Devices we tried many permutations of the set-up but never resolved the issue. My concern is that should I purchase another MixPre (if you can find one) the issue might reappear. Have you ever come across anything like this using a MixPre or similar device? Thanks for any comments. Darrill
I have heard of others pickup up a hum when the camera is attached directly to the top of the MixPre and those folks have found that putting a quick release plate and receiver between the recorder and camera solved the problem. But I've never heard of the camera picking up the timecode signal from the MixPre unless you had the output configured to send timecode.
Great review. Now with this wide dynamic range of the recorder, we will need to take a closer look at the dynamic range of the microphone. This is especially true for effects recording. *QUESTION:* what file formats does the Sound Devices recorder support with the floating point format? I'm a bit out of touch with that, if things have changed. For example, How many tracks can be recorded in a single file? Are they limited to ether one mono track or one stereo track? (I'm assuming uncompressed or lossless compression data in this files too.) I took a look for floating point audio file formats but only found two; WavPack Lossless in WAV files and ALS in MPEG-4 files.
Hi Robert, the MixPre II Series and Zoom F6 both record 32-bit float to broadcast wav format in poly wav configuration. This means that the MixPre-10 II, for example, can record up to 12 tacks within a single wav file (8 mic/line inputs plus stereo mix).
Professor hello. Just a quick word. I now have the Sound Devices mix pre 6ii. Well I don't actually have it but it's been on back order and should ship out next week sometime. I purchased mine thru Broadcast Supply Worldwide. .my equipment list is growing exponentially!!! I now own a total of 32 mics and counting. Thank you sir for being the best.. Rev. Bailey
So nice to watch and listen to. You have a good energy. Very inviting and relaxing. My mind is not overloaded but inspired and made curious. And that's quite unique in UA-cam-land imo. Thanks!
It's been about 2 hours since I last used my original Mix-Pre 3, and I still thoroughly enjoyed this video. I've got a lot to learn before I need to upgrade, but I am fascinated with the new hardware. I also enjoy watching someone deliver a review without a stumble or a flub up. It's been about 2 hours since I stumbled through my own video, LOL. Well done, Curtis.
I picked up the MixPre 3 II a couple of weeks ago and could not be happier. I was using a Tascam DR-70D for the field and a MOTU Ultralite-mk3 in the studio. The MixPre is such a step up from both! The self noise is much better than both. The ergonomics is significantly better than the Tascam and of course the wide dynamic range is a game changer!
I don't usually look at the number because it depends on which mic you're using, where it is positioned, and the voice you are recording. But for condenser microphones, I'm usually somewhere between 35 and 55dB of gain.
Very nice video. Can't wait for the next video on mixpre 6 II timecode options. If possible could you also cover the mixpre setup and details about connecting to various TC units (ambient, tentacle, etc...)
Thanks for your great review, Curtis. Your reviews are always informative and trustworthy. Thanks for the detailed comparison of these and pointing out the importance of the headphone amps. When I switched over to Sound Devices products, I was immediately impressed with the quality of the headphone amp, and think it's a critical part of the recording process in the field.
Couple notes and questions: - Voice sounding different at +76db: Since gain is still technically being applied, is it possible that by running the mic "hotter" than the others, its bass response is stronger and that's why you think it sounds different/better? (Or am I totally off-base?) - If I just have 1 camera (specifically the UMP since you have that) there's nothing wrong with just using the MixPre II as a generator FOR the camera, too, right? Instead of buying one for it. - Worth nothing that the pre-roll buffer drops to like 2 seconds (on MixPre-3 II) when in 32-bit mode. (Or at least 32-bit + 192khz) I do wish the MixPre-3 could do USB backup while taking USB power - I refuse to futz with the NPF sled anymore and am only using USB batteries, but would love to give it a big flash drive to keep backups running.
Hi Adam, yes, the difference in sound is most likely the preamps changing in character at different gain settings. This is not unusual at all. You wouldn't get this on the Zoom F6 in 32-bit wide dynamic range mode because the gain level is hard set to unity (whatever that happens to be for that preamp.) There is nothing wrong with using the MP II as the timecode gen for the UMP. Thanks for the correction on the pre-roll time, my mistake there.
Great video. I just looked at the F6 website, it now has the wide dynamic range 32bit oat recording capabilities. Good to know you do some courses. I'll be doing some. Excellent videos.
Hello Curtis and a doggy question: I recorded from a session one mono mic channel and a stereo mic on channels 5&6 on a micpre6ii. Now as I take the "package of tracks" to Locig it opens it in 5 tracks - all mono and I cannot say which are the original channels and which are the two "bussed/masterout" channels, which obviously have all 3 channels mixed. This is to me a lack of clearence - it could be mended by a software update f.ex to mark the tracks in metadata to be readable right? Can you help me whit this or anyone other who happens to reasd this? Thanks in advance.
The first two tracks are the stereo mix, the third is the mono mic on input 1 and tracks 4&5 are the stereo mic on 5&6. Mix is always first, followed by the inputs in order.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis. I somehow just went blurred in this, and as I think of it now I understand that it is just the same "pack" on my DAW as on the screen of mixpre - exactly same picture, stack of tracks! Thank you.
Hi Curtis. Love the reviews and explainers. They truly explain. If you're looking for why the hottest recording sounds different from the quietest, it might be down to the quietest clip using, basically, the least-significant bits of your PCM word. I'd love a true ADC geek to enlighten me, but from my limited experience, years ago, recording string quartets and such on 16/44.1 Sony PCM-1s, i was taught that recording too low meant using, essentially, too few of those limited bits--risking quantization errors. Most of the time what prevented that was the inherent noise in the mics and preamps--a rough-and-ready form of dithering, which linearizes the signal. But what I always noticed back then is that a too-low-yet-dithered recording still sounded different from ones with fuller levels and the same noise underneath. So what you might be hearing is slightly differently modulated noise floors, selectively (and minutely) masking different parts of the spectrum. Which is certainly not a knock on your signal chain. Mic, preamp and converter self-noise haven't changed drastically since the early days. Getting 70-some dB noise floors, through a mic and pre in a quiet studio is great. And even the best MilSpec ADC, wrapped in $20K worth of NASA-grade power supply, is only good for 20-22 bits of actual capture, because of noise. The additional bits are only good for headroom, which ain't a bad thing. We live in good times. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks bobtom reed. You can find the courses over at school.learnlightandsound.com and there are also several tutorials here on my UA-cam channel. Happy recording!
Hey Curtis, is it possible to set up a Mix-Pre so that the fader knob is assigned to adjust to channel gain (instead of the level sent to mix). I am trying to find a way to easily adjust input levels using these knobs. Thanks!
At the 16:24 mark, I was anticipating you mentioning Sound Devices' Wingman iOS App for Mix Pre and 6-series product lines. (you later showed it at the 17:45 mark - my bad!)
Thanks for the very informative review/comparison. You mention a word I do not recognise and I can't find it on google. I may not be spelling it correctly. The word sounded like, "ampasonic".
One thing to mention as I felt this section might of been a little misleading: the Mixpre ii’s Pre-roll function also decreases in time when choosing the higher sample rate / bit depth’s, just like the Zoom f6. I’m not sure what the F6 ends up with when maxed out but I believe the Mixpre ii at 192khz, 32bit float, will only Pre-roll 2 Seconds.
Hi Curtis, Great Review! In my opinion the biggest problem with the MixPre II series is the lack of outputs. If I remember correctly none of them even have a standard XLR L&R Output. Right now, I am liking the 833 a lot. It has a lot more common sense features like more outputs, 2 SD cards, and larger file sizes. I also like the SL-2 a lot; especially since Sound Devices and Audio Limited merged. The SL-2 allows the wireless receiver to transfer the signal digitally to the 833 recorder. Cheers, Mathew
Yes, if you are working on a production set where you need the outputs for IFBs or coms, yes, but of course that's not the market for which the MixPre is intended. The MixPre is made for situations where you don't need more than one 3.5mm output or, on the MixPre-10, 2 TA3 and one 3.5mm output.
Thanks Curtis for the juxtaposition. Very insightful. By the way, I really appreciate the sincerity and honesty in all of your videos. Keep up the great work!
After using my MixPre 10 II all week on a film project here are my complaints: 1. Timecode occasionally (randomly) drifts compared to tentacle sync boxes and Denecke TSC slate. 2. The machine OVERHEATS like crazy. I was in shade the whole time, but the unit was extremely hot to the touch, moreso when multiple tracks are being recorded. Anyone else experiencing these issues? My 633 has never (after 6 years of use) had these problems.
Hi Gerald, I haven’t noticed any drift issues. I believe the heat is normal given the thermal design of the MixPre where I suspect the case is essentially a heat sink. When you say yours overheated, do you mean it shut down or stopped working?
@@curtisjudd The machine was mostly solid, but the DIT came to me after lunch and complained that T/C was off by 30 seconds. I re-jammed and didn't have a problem until the next day when it randomly occurred again. Finally ... yesterday, after the 3rd complaint, I checked the tentacles on both cameras and compared them to the slate. They were rock solid with each other, but the machine was significantly off! I'm thinking that the timecode generator just isn't as accurate as the 633 when powering down for a few minutes, or changing batteries. I'd love to know if anyone else has experienced this! The heat issue wasn't enough for the machine to shut down, but it made me nervous - as it was very hot to the touch. If I were using it outdoors in July, I'm thinking it might not have survived! (Edit: Thanks for responding. Sorry I answered from my other account)
@@hartleyroadmusic Yes, I would ALWAYS rejam after powering down. Some people have complained of issues of that even on the 633. But probably worth contacting Sound Devices support.
@@curtisjudd interesting. I’ve never had to rejam using my 633 after powering down. That’s a good 6+ years of almost daily use! That’s a testament to the quality of the 633 t/c generator!!
I'm confused about which gain controls I should use. The MixPre 3 II manual states: "Channel knob controls all gain for a channel. Dual gain stage. Input gain is set in the Channel Screen. Channel knob controls post-fade levels to mix bus." So I have two XLR cables with input set to Mic, recording stereo/binaural . When I press the knob the touch screen menu allows me to adjust the gain on the screen. Then, the knob itself when turned seems to adjust the gain. Which should I be using and why? I record 1+ hour long continuous 4k walks though the streets and want noise to be as low as possible, but pickup the sound of voices, cars, etc. The goal being to capture 3D ambience. I bought your course on the device BTW.
Hi Droogles, it depends on whether you're in basic or advanced/custom mode. It also depends on how you wish to work. If you want the knob to control gain and give up your fader, then stick with basic mode. If you want the knobs to act as faders because you'll be actively mixing, then you'll want advanced mode. That's the first step. I hope that and the course helps!
Curtis Judd thanks. I’m in advanced mode. For my purposes is it fine to set the on-screen gain to the lowest setting and adjust the gain (or is it fade?) with the physical knob? I don’t understand the difference between fade and gain. I’m new to audio. Hope my question makes sense.
And to clarify, no, you will want to set the gain setting to a level such that the audio hits around -18 to -12dB on the meters. Then use the fader knobs to adjust how much of each mic is sent to the stereo mix.
Curtis Judd I think I understand now. I need to adjust the on-screen gain for each channel to hit -12 for whatever environment I’m in (will be different each time), then keep each channel fader knob set at zero initially and adjust them up and down together as needed? Being that I’m using 32 bit float, the fader part can probably be ignored and any adjustments done in post?
Have a question. If I understand correctly, the mixpre can work as an external sound card with PC or Mac. What about iPhone? Can the mixpre work as an external sound card with iphone?
- edit: I stand corrected! - Correct me if I’m wrong, but the MixPre-6 II does not have timecode output whereas Zoom F6 has a minijack timecode (LTC) out and you can connect it straight to your dslr minijack audio input with cheap minijack-minijack cable for timecode sync. This will essentially save you the cost of one Tentacle Sync (240€) if you wish to sync the timecode with the recorder and camera. The MixPre-10 II is the only in the series with timecode output which brings me to the second question: will the BNC timecode output give the same type of signal output as a minijack timecode out? If yes the it would be usable with a BNC-minijack cable to sync a dslr via the camera audio input. Anyways great video as always, thanks!
Great video. I was just wondering if someone could clue me in as to why we're not recording 32 bit float all the time if it can salvage almost anything?
Hi Linus, it also requires two or more analogue to digital converters and a way to effectively merge the output of the 2+ converters and THEN put that in a 32-bit float file. Many recorders are focused on hitting a specific price point so they'd rather forgo the additional hardware and R&D required to make it work well.
So good, thank you. One question - You can’t set the limiters if you’re using float, right… because you don’t need it. However if you’re recording primary audio in-camera, and using the MixPre recording as a backup, can you set limiters for the output to the camera?
Hi PhotoJoseph, unfortunately, I don't believe the MixPre has output limiters. However, for live, I'd probably use 24-bit mode and turn those limiters on there.
Hi Curtis, thank you so much for all of your great reviews and videos. I almost watched them all and learned a lot (After 8 years of studying film at one of the best film universities and working in the field for more than 20 years that means something). After working as director, screenwriter on bigger feature films, I came lately to the decision to make a more guerrilla-one-man-show-documentary-project and started watching your channel, as well as Gerald's and Josh's. I've bought a Sony Alpha 7 III and some other stuff and now was planning to buy a Field Recorder. In this video you are mentioning all the differences between the Zoom F6 and MixPreSeries but somehow you forgot to mention one of the most important features of the MixpreSeries for a one-man-show-shooting which as far as I understand is missing at the F6: The Record-Trigger via HDMI. With this option you wouldn't need a external-TC-sync as Nano-Lockit or TentantcleSync because it not only syncs the timecode of your camera with the sounddevice but also starts the recording at the same time! With this exact starting point of both files (audio and video) you would not even need the timecode to sync in postproduction as you have exact same file length. (By saying that, the rec trigger would be more important for a solo-shooter than TC-Sync which becomes relevant if you work with more than one camera). So last week we had a shooting where I wanted to test this. The rental only had the old Mixpre 3 I Version available and I was facing several problems, not sure if they occurred because of a broken device or the older version or or or: - USB Power (via Powerbank) occurs the following problem: cannot read TC because of Low Power -Batteries both (rec trigger and tc sync) worked but batteries only lasted for half an hour While connected to a Sony Alpha 7 III the camera thinks it is a monitor that is connected. This means: The moment you hit the record button on the camera both devices start recording but the Picture on the Sony-Monitor disappears which means there's is no way of operating /controlling the shot/ picture. I am aware of that you are mostly using the GH5 and I also watched all videos of Gerald regarding the HDMI Settings which only helps if you record on an external monitor. I've also tried to find other videos and manuals. There is one by sounddevice regarding the Alpha7s but the setup did not work: cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPreSeries-SonyA7SR.pdf As this option - recording on all devices with one button - is a super relevant topic for all one-man-shows (e.g. vloggers) I (and maybe others) would be sooooo thankful if you could give feedback on this. Thank you so much in advance! Best Niels
Hi Niels, Thanks for bringing this up and I agree, it needs some discussion. I can say this: I am not impressed with the implementation of this feature. The problem appears to be that only *some* cameras work and only in *some* configurations. On top of that, the HDMI input is the HDMI-micro port which is extraordinarily lacking in robustness when one is solo operating for the types of situations you cite. Inserting an ATOMOS or other recorder between the camera and MixPre seems to create even more problems as we documented in this video from some time ago: ua-cam.com/video/30MGH_2rwqY/v-deo.html It is not entirely the fault of Sound Devices. The problem appears to stem back to the fact that the HDMI standards do not have a clear spec for how timecode and timecode flags are to be passed via HDMI. I think this is due to the fact that HDMI was created for consumer devices rather than professional equipment. So it appears that each manufacturer implements the HDMI timecode and control flags differently. Sound Devices does put forth some effort to work with as many cameras as they can as demonstrated by the most recent firmware update which expanded the list of cameras it recognizes. Despite the fact that ATOMOS insists that they pass-through all HDMI timecode and control flags, it does not appear to work so there's something going on there as well. People have put together complicated work-arounds which involve powered HDMI splitters but that seems like a rather impractical solution if you're a solo operator. In short, I don't consider this feature reliable enough to consider it a major pro in favor of the MixPre. Not because I think it wouldn't be useful for a lot of people, but because of the technical challenges and the limited number of scenarios where it works.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much Curtis, for your swift reply and all the in-depth-information. It's super interesting and true that HDMI is more of a consumer connection. I have seen your mentioned video with the atomos and the sound device before, although it does not really tackle my problem as I just want to use the sounddevice without passing through an external monitor. I wonder if the configuration works with only your MixPre and the GH5 without losing the picture on the GH5 monitor. So in my case Rec-Trigger and TimeCode-Transfer works perfectly but once I start recording I loose the picture on my internal monitor and viewfinder. Is this only a Sony proplem? Does the MixPre pretend to be a monitor? Is there any HDMI port that makes a difference and give a feedback to the camera that it is ONLY a sound device that needs a TC-Signal and REC-Trigger? I fear that you have answered the question by saying that there is no standard with HDMI, but just wonder if you know someone who could work with a Sony Alpha and a MixPre by starting the MixPre via Rec/Trigger / TC-Information and having a picture to control your shot at THE SAME TIME. Thanks again for your time and effort!
I also remember some tascam recorders with this tc in / rec trigger option. So my basic question is if there has ever been a workflow between a camera an a field recorder without an external monitor as in your mentioned video?
And how do you start and sync your devices if you shoot alone and not with a filmcrew? Always pressing two buttons for starting the recording? And how do you sync audio and video track? Always with auxiliary tc on audio tracks of the video files or with sound recognition in your NLE software?
@@jumpseat Fair question. Hopefully somebody will see this who owns a Sony and can confirm. You might also contact Sony support and ask whether there is a camera setting you can use to prevent the monitor from turning off when recording. Best wishes!
I didn't expect the noise floor to be so low for the clip that was recorded with low gain, then heavily boosted in post. Noise is introduced in each step until the signal is turned into 1s and 0s, but I think that the biggest source is usually from the pre-amp. The more gain there is in the pre-amp. the more noise is introduced. Does the low gain on the pre-amp, and thus less noise introduced, fully explain the result we saw here? (Also, I was listening on nothing-special earbuds, and I could definitely hear that significant shift in timbre from the high gain setting.)
Hi Thomas, I expect that the low self-noise of the preamp is likely the majority of the reason for the great self-noise performance even on the over-gained and under-gained samples.
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Since Zoom and SD have announced their dual Analog to Digital converter + 32 bit float systems, I have been guessing that the pre-amp would become even more important in the signal chain. Looks like SD very much have that covered here, which is great. Looking forward to learning if Zoom's pre-amps in the F6 are on the same level. Should be a very good thing us consumers in this price range!
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Thanks for reminding me! I'll re watch to compare - sounds like Zoom haven't made any changes to the electronics from your pre-release to what they are manufacturing now for full release.
I’m not sure if this changed in the last 2 years, but I noticed that the Mix Pre series has a plug-in called auto mix now, so that’s not an advantage of the zoom anymore
Curtis, I’m having a huge problem with my new mix pre 3 ii. I cannot figure out how to enable phantom power at all. It says to press in on the gain knob, but.... it’s not doing anything..?? I’m not sure I’m doing it right but I’ve literally looked at every setting I could reach. I am stuck on the “menu” setting, and I read that there is a “channel” setting which you can access to utilize phantom and many other things. I cannot reach the “channel”. I have my rode ntg 5 mic with an xlr cable plugged into it. Can you help???
Push the knob for the input to which your NTG5 is attached. That brings up the channel menu. Go to the second page of the menu. Tap +48V to turn on the phantom power. I also have an in-depth MixPre course over at school.learnlightandsound.com.
Good explanation. I had to replay a few times to remember everything you demonstrated. Would you mind creating a video that shows what settings should be on both MixPre-6 II and Leica SL/SL2 when establishing timecode? I tried having the SL2 generate but it didn’t send to the MixPre, then I tried getting the MixPre to send to the SL2 and still no success. I viewed the timecode setup portion of your course I just enrolled in but it doesn’t address it. I am sure there’s something I’m missing. Hoping you can help…among the 200 other tasks you’re already working on!
Hi Curtis, The MixPre II series only has a left and right line out. can you describe how to get multiple camera hop channels for a two camera shoot. a Low cost stereo camera hop setup is something that about everyone could use.. there are some really nice and very expensive systems out there.. it would be nice if there was a single device that handled transmitting from the bag, including talk back, IFB, and camera hops. do you know of anything? and what do you use for camera hops?
Hello Traunch Trauncher, it is a great question. I don't often do camera hops in my corporate work as the budget doesn't call for it and the pieces are pretty straightforward. But the soon to be released DEITY BP-TRX looks like it may be a pretty decent option and much less expensive than many of the pro level IFB systems.
@@curtisjudd I've been looking at that one. and it it really does hit the market at the advertised 249.00 per unit, it will be a steal. Thanks for the reply Curtis!
At 19:04 you show the gain being set in a menu. Why? Are all those knobs on the front just faders? Is that the case only when recording 32bit, or at all times? (And thanks again, for the great, informative video)
Hi San Jacobs, that is because I have the MixPre in Advanced mode so it works more like a traditional mixing board where you set the gain in the menu and then the knob is a fader. You can switch to basic or custom mode where the knobs are used to control gain.
Nice review Curtis! I particularly enjoyed the freq plot comparisons of the 3 gain structures. Damn, those Pres are good! Oddly.I found myself liking the 6db gain setting one the best. I did notice at one point (10:25) that the Batt indicator says EXT with an internal battery symbol. That seeems to be a departure from the way the older MixPre displaed it, with a power input symbol instead. Am i misplaced?
Yes, it looks like that was changed. I think the change was actually in a firmware prior to the MixPre II but not positive on that. Or maybe it is just the 10T and 10 II which do that.
Another great review, especially for being unbiased, as you deal with the obvious elephant in the room, comparing to the Zoom F6. I still went for the F6 because of the feature distinctions from smaller footprint to pricing to powering options, but still find it baffling why Zoom only develops for iOS and not Android.
thanks for your reply to my question earlier, quick followup if you don't mind, if using the preii with say the rode video mic pro + (via 3.5 jack) what are the drawbacks/limitations on quality compared to using a xlr shotgun mic? thanks again.
I don't think it is worth the price if you'll just be using a VideoMic Pro. The VM Pro has its own preamp which will clip before it gets the audio signal to the MixPre so you lose the 32-bit float benefit.
Cannot find this info anywhere. If used as a bus powered USB interface, does it power on with the computer and start working as an interface, without needing to dive into the menus every time?
Hi Harri, first, only the 3 and 6 can be bus powered by the computer. Second, yes, on a Mac at least, they do not need to be reconfigured every time if you are using the MixPre as a USB interface.
Off topic, I have the original MixPre 3 and a GH5. If I attach MixPre to base of camera, I get a low level clicking sound, when the mixer is connected to mic input on camera and monitoring the camera. This seems to happen even when the mixer is turned off. It happens when using batteries. However, if I place a QR plate between mixer and camera clicking goes away. I’m puzzled.
I have heard others cite the same issue but not with any other cameras. It sounds like the GH5 may have a grounding or shielding issue of some sort if I had to guess.
FAB review Curtis! Couple of things I would like to add.... Customer support and ruggedness. I work all over the world and all my SD kit (yep still have a bombproof 633 that always works. hot, cold, humid, rain, dust -Always) just works. On the couple of rare times where I had an issue (ruined out to be an ID 10 T error on my part) the team as SD picked up the phone call and talked me through a fix. Try doing that with the Zoom people! NOT. Thanks for the review!
I'm not sound engineer, i'm a musician. I have Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k and i just bought an MixPre 3 II. I hear that i can synchronize this devices via timecode for audio but i don't know how it works. You can give some tips? Thank you!
Hi Sergiu, we do cover this in our MixPre Course over at School.LearnLightAndSound.com. In short, you use a 3.5mm stereo mini jack cable from the MixPre's aux output into the P4K's 3.5mm mic input. You do need to configure the MixPre to send timecode out via the 3.5mm aux output.
My second or third viewing. Currently I use the Rodecaster. I pull my audio off of that device, and add it to my video in post production. I have focused more on video. But I’m trying to bring my audio skills up more.
Curtis I really like your videos they are very informative. Wondering if you could make a video that shows how much budget is required for a beginner, intermediate, and pro level location sound bag kit. Thanks!
@@curtisjudd Thanks so much for the reply Curtis! I'm very curious to know because quite frankly, you could easily spend just $10k on the field mixer/recorder but I've also seen options to buy an entire (beginner) kit for $10k inclusive. Hope that makes sense?
A few other differences: 96kHz max sample rate and a total of 3 inputs at a time, including the stereo 3.5 mm input on the MixPre-3 II. So essentially, two of the XLR inputs are disabled if you use the 3.5mm stereo input.
I am ryan from Jakarta, I want to ask, I have a problem with the 10t mixpre that I have, so he has no display or black screen, so only the sound device logo is lit, do you think there is a solution for my 10p mixpre?
Hello Curtis! I just got myself a Mix Pre 3 II and i got stumbled in a setup issue. I want to record each of the 3 channels independently in advanced mode but all I get is a single file with all ch mixed. If I import that file in Reaper does not get separated automatically. It does get separated only in Audacity. Is there any way I could do this inside Sound Devices? maybe even monitor the channels individually after recording? Thanks!
Hi Nadayana, Yes, this is a poly wav file. Each microphone is recorded to its own track plus the stereo mix are on two separate tracks. I am not familiar with Reaper so I'm not sure how to split them apart but I would imagine that asking how to split a poly wav file apart in the Reaper forums may get you the help you need. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks for replying! But isn't there a way to split the poly wav file into individual tracks inside Sound Devices? I would like to verify them after recording and before importing them on my laptop
@@Nadayana There is not a way to split the file apart in the recorder, but on playback, you can solo each microphone by going into the channel menu for that microphone.
Hi curtis great videos thanks! I want to use the Mixpre in a very basic way, knob controlling gain, only recording a single ISO track (stereo mix track not needed). All working fine apart from I can't listen back to the recording I've just made on CH1 through the headphones on playback? Am I missing something not selecting the right HP preset? many thanks
Is there a way to navigate the menu without using the touch display? I didn't see anything mentioned in the manual. I'm thinking of those times when recording in damp weather, and wondering if there is a backup method if navigating the touch display becomes difficult...or the off chance the touch display fails. I understand the headphone knob is used to make menu item adjustments, but does it double to navigate? Any hard key combination that navigates? Thanks!
Hey Curtis! Thank you. I've been holding out hope for a Zoom 'F4n' or similar recorder with 32-bit float recording. The F6 is exciting, but not quite the form factor and features I am after. And since Zoom didn't have a new recorder to announce at NAMM this weekend, I am taking a closer look at the MixPre II. I wonder if there are any key combinations remaining to where they could add it as a feature in an update. Not sure if I'm the only one with the touch display navigation concern... That and the battery handling are the only two concerns I have with the MixPre. Otherwise, it looks and sounds great!
Hi Derik, Wireless systems generally convert their audio back to analogue at the receiver and send analogue audio to the recorder. In this case, the MixPre would re-convert it from analogue to 32-bit float, 48kHz. With many of the pro-level wireless systems, they can actually feed digital audio directly to the mixer/recorder from the receiver - this is what I do with my Audio Ltd A10 and Sound Devices 888.
@@derik_niez RODELink and DEITY Connect receivers convert the audio back to analogue and then the recorder re-converts it back to digital. They cannot send digital audio to recorders or cameras.
Hmm, does the MixPre accept a file from outside world for playback, or does it only play back files it has recorded itself? Eg. I would have a song that has timecode audio on one channel, which I would play in MixPre, route the output into camera, which then locks the camera to the song for instant sync.
That didn't work in my initial tests, unfortunately. It seems the MixPre is probably creating some sort of proprietary index of the recorded files and only plays them back if they're in that index. At least that's my guess.
Thank you Curtis. This is invaluable to us noobs who are trying to choose equipment for our future capabilities. Currently I’m very early in my AV career, and have a zoom h5, a Scarlett solo, and a beachtek and a 70d that I picked up second hand. Was considering a new gen Focusrite 2i2 to help with my NT1, but then...why not consider a Mix Pre 3 to cover all bases? Seems like a considerable upgrade on all of my recorders/interfaces. I can keep the solo plugged into my computer for face to face meetings, and the h5 for highly mobile stuff with the NTG3 or Lav, and use the Mix pre for everything in between. I feel as though I will be unappreciative for all the struggles that audio guys of the past went thru.
I loved one man in my life and that's Jesus and now I love another man and that's Curtis ahahahaha these videos are so informative they don't get the justice they deserve this is 700k views worth plus some . thank you for all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMPORTANT ISSUE !!! When I play a clip in Mixpre-3 II (off rec mix st, 32 bits mode, mono track) I listend a shrill-strident-clipping sound very unpleasant in the beggining of the track. I can see in the monitor of Mixpre-3 II clipping all the tracks. It sound very strong and damage my ears when I use headphones. Not happen in other modes (16, 24 bits) or mix st included in the file. This doesn't happen in the sound editor (pc), only when I play the clips in the mixpre 3 II. It is obviously not normal. Is it a mistake of my unit? Should I return to the store? Steps to Reproduce: Rec solo track mono (imput 1,2 or 3), off rec mix st, 32 bits mode, playing clip in Micpre-3 II. Actual Results: Strident sound clipping in the beginning of the track. I listen in my headphones and see in the monitor clipping all the tracks (included not rec) Does anyone else have this problem? Thanks!
Hi Sergio, I have not experienced this issue. I would encourage you to contact SD support. They are typically very responsive and good at resolving issues. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks! I contacted SD and still waiting response. This issue happen whith a very specific configuration. Only if you rec a mono track in 32 bits and play after in Mixpre-3 II. It's like a glitch sound in the beginning, clipping all the tracks. Most people includes st mix when rec, this would explain why no one has noticed. It's nasty monitoring in location this way.
Hi Sergio, I just set my MixPre-3 II up the way you described - 32 bit, L+R off, record one channel mono - and did not experience a loud sound at the start of playback. I had to use a custom headphone preset with all three iso channels selected to playback post fader. Is this the same as the headphone preset you're using?
@@curtisjudd Thank you very much for your supporting. You are the best! I have finally found the real problem: TIMECODE (yes). From the beginning I set the timecode to off. This combined with the previous configuration (32 bit, mono track, off mix st) produces the sound glitches when I playback. I don't know why this happens or if it occurs in all manufactured units. My firmware version is 4.01. Would it be too much trouble if you were to test again? Thanks, thanks, thanks....
@@SergioManuelSanchez Tested as you specified and yes, I do get a very loud pop when I press play. Have you already reported this to SD? That needs to be fixed and hopefully firmware can fix it.
Hey Curtis The zoom F series have a feature removed from them can you confirm this for me? Zoom H series come with compressor/limiter Menu. Where the newer F series only get the Limiter feature. For such a wider dynamic range Zoom should have really carried over the compressor feature what's up with that. Zoom F6 can set output signal levels from −48.0 to +12.0 dB to match up with a large variety of devices. As well it can apply the Limiter feature to the output to avoid clipping the connected device. In this case the compressor feature here would of been a Massive Plus and a rough example of what the final audio could be closer to after editing 32bit file in post.
Hi Cheyen.S, That is a worthy question for empirical testing. I'm not sure that a compressor could necessarily handle all of the potential exceeding 0dBFS. The output is capable of up to +10dBV, a measure of voltage vs. digital level. A compressor could certainly help in some circumstances but not necessarily all.
@@curtisjudd I wouldn't see much of an issue handling that output if the limiters can the compressor would also be able to, given it gets a decently high enough compression ratio. Which is also not impossible as mostly everything is being handled digitally now. "a compressor is used to compress a sound’s dynamic range. That is, to make the louder and quieter parts of the sound’s performance closer to each other in level. It does this in one of two ways. In “downward compression,” the compressor attenuates the signal when it gets too loud. This is the most common form of compression. In “upward compression,” the compressor boosts signal until it reaches a certain level. In either case, the dynamic range becomes narrower." - by Griffin Brown, iZotope Contributor. Basically the compressor's advantage is a "fuller" sound less fatiguing , high peaks and softer audio become closer. "The main reason to use compression is that, by increasing the RMS level, the sound as a whole will sound “louder” and more present in the mix. This loudness is something that our ears naturally enjoy, which was what my friend was picking up on when he said compressors make things “sound good.” Compression will cause the sound to be less dynamic and organic, but this added presence can help a sound stand out in the mix. ie. (or hear unwanted low sound level noises to be easily picked out and avoided from getting baked into the mix) Compressors are also important for controlling the dynamics of live-recorded instruments and vocals. These tend to vary quite widely in level over the course of a performance, so some compression can help make the level more consistent. This will sound fuller and more polished, more like the “professional” sound of instruments in the mix. However, you can always opt to perform less compression (or none at all) if you want to preserve an organic quality to the performance." As you can see here again. So it would be more helpful compressing the huge dynamic range to a more comfortable monitoring or playback level, ie. in those moments of high dynamic range recording, gun shots, rain falling or trickling at very low sound levels while thunder goes off in the background, or race cars passing by at High SPL and still hear the pebbles skip across the road. Not having to adjust the headphone output levels as it goes loud and gets back soft, which was somewhat the point here of being a one man crew and focusing on the video captured not worrying about my headphone volume going through the roof trying to listen to a soft sound and something very loud goes off. This is where Zoom F6 has the limiter feature that can be applied to the output of the headphones as well as 3.5mm line out to a device. Simply add back the compressor function to the F series and we can send compressed audio to any device, other than strictly brick wall limiting which does come out harsh at times. Then work on 32 bit in post on the original if needed ex. for a job or client. But the mock up would give a greater feel of the end product. Or simply be ready for direct posting on social media without extra time spent editing. So yeah that is my take, they could add back the compressor feature they had in the old Zoom H models in a future update. What would be the softest sound SPL level these two recorders can record respectively? Like a pin drop, soft rustling of leaves, anechoic chamber recording what would be the absolute lowest SPL that can be picked up with decent quality. Using those Ultra low noise mics ex. 3-5dBa such as Lewitt LCT 540 or better. At what minimum Ambient SPL Can the lower noise floor Mix Pre record down to? 5 dBA 10dBA 15dBA? Until noise floor destroys it?
@@BushMasterThermal Not sure, would need a microphone in that class to test. Also, how would one test that? Gain up how much on the MixPre? Or lower the gain so that we could handle how much SPL on the high end? Would need some help devising a good testing strategy.
Curtis, I have a little problem I can't find solution to... I'm recording 32bit for a project, but our worklflow demands to first sync the audio and videofiles in Adobe Premiere and then getting the synced audiofiles with videoreference to another PC to work on with Studio One and RX7 (DAW). I reliased that, when I'm getting the files rendered out of premiere (with lossless render settings), the magic of 32bit doesnt seem to work anymore and I'm seeing alot of noise when turning the gain up on those recordings. Would you happen to know any solution to this. Thanks in advance.
Are the limiters adjustable in Custom Mode while using 24 bit recording? I looked through the settings and didn’t see the “Limiters” tab under the System menu. Not necessarily a big deal, but I feel as though I’m missing something.
I believe you can but need to switch one of the custom options to advanced…don’t have it here in front of me so can’t check at the moment, but I would set the channels to advanced first.
I'm a simple man.* I see a Curtis Judd episode, I click it, I watch the ads** (to support his channel), and I thumbs up the video (even before watching it). * Because I think he is a nice person, with the bonus that he provides such an in-depth, honest opinions on products. And I love the fact he gets right to it with the PROs and CONs right at the beginning! ** Huh, seems like no ads in this one. Interesting! That's okay. I just watch another video. Saramonic gave me a juicy ad at 2 minutes 59 seconds... And that's just one of two ads. Haha! Oh, another one now (chgardens) at a minute 56. :) I make sure not to skip the ads. Tricky UA-cam, with your blank few seconds at the end so that people impatiently press skip. Just finished watch the video. Curtis, you freakin' rock. What a great overview. When I have "extra" money, I'll probably get the Mix Pre 6 II. Money is going towards a Skydio 2 at the moment. xD Haha!
No one on UA-cam comes close to the quality, depth and clarity of your gear reviews and demos. I've recently bought a mix pre 6ii to help me improve my video/audio quality and your videos have been tremendously helpful to me! I seem to have no trouble getting a great recording of most instruments but I've found dialogue recording and editing to always be challenging. Many thanks, Michael :)
Thanks so much Michael! And let me say that I've learned so much from you in the music recording and mixing domain.
@@lisan_al-ghaib honestly there are few better devices for recording. It’s going to lack the “tone” of a desiccated pre amp or mixer but for clarity this just can’t be beaten
Your BEST review ever. In truth ALL your reviews are "perfect", it's just that for me this is the most relevant! Big THANKS for making this.
Thanks! 👍
@@curtisjudd Thank you! Your review is just the best! I can listen to real preamp sound without shitty background music.
The honesty and objectivity of the videos on this channel are very much appreciated. Specifically regarding this video, I don't understand why someone would click the Dislike button. Seriously, what is not to like with this one?
Thanks Daniel!
Echo this 100%
*Correction*: The MixPre pre-roll time also decreases when you record at higher sample rates (5 seconds at 96kHz & 2 seconds at 192kHz)
Jump ahead:
00:11 Summary
01:03 How does it sound compared to Zoom F6?
01:58 Wide Dynamic Range 32-bit Float Recording
09:53 Other new features
11:55 What if you’re sending audio from your recorder to your camera?
13:09 MixPre II vs Zoom F6 - Advantages of each
23:25 Should I buy a Zoom F6 or MixPre II?
@Curtis Judd
Curtis, THANK YOU for the excellent and informative comparison & review! 👍
For my personal workflow, one other significant feature of the MixPre units vs the Zoom F6 are the separate TA3/mini-XLR BALANCED Output jacks on the MixPre units.
But I realize that this might not be as important to others and when used within their more common use case scenarios.
*QUESTION* ...
I already own & want to use some of my high-quality analog outboard Microphone Preamplifiers, such as the Millennia HV-3D-8 and AEA RPQ2 with the MixPre-10-II (mostly for location music production with passive & active ribbon mics & high-quality/low noise studio condenser mics)...
@Paul Isaacs
...If I route the analog, line level, balanced output signals from my outboard mic preamps into the balanced analog combi XLR/TRS Input jacks on a MixPre 10-II, does the Line Input signal path completely BYPASS the built-in Kashmir mic preamp circuitry and feed directly into the ADC's in the MixPre???
Or would my outboard mic preamp's line level signal still route through the MixPre's Kashmir mic preamp circuitry before hitting the ADC???
^Especially in regards to using the 32-bit Float recording format for wide dynamic range Classical music, drums/percussion, and EFX recording.
THANKS!
Thanks!
Thanks I just got mine and noticed that 🙂. It’s not a deal breaker for me, but until I came back to read the comments I thought it was 10 across the board. Too good to be true I guess!
The Return of the Judd. May the sound be with us. (Thanks man. Fantastic review).
May the Sound be with you, my Jedi friend.
This is exactly the review I was looking for. I’m now decided on the Mix Pre 10 2. I’ll be primarily using it for recording music with field recording later. Thank you so much for your review. Very helpful!!
Thanks Andrea and happy recording!
I am going to add in the MP10II and the Zoom F6 in my recording in Special effects and music recording soon.. Thanks
Great comprehensive coverage! Thanks! One thing I think is worth noting. In my extensive experience with high end audio recording and playback, the added warmth of the MixPre is likely a consequence of lower distortion rather than a coloration itself. It actually reveals more detail but less aggressively. Thanks again for your even handed attention to detail!
Thanks, Tim, appreciate the insight!
Alhamdulillah tq so much, i decided to get zoom H6
👍
Technology is getting so amazing that I could not imagine before. Thanks for the review!
👍
Thanks I’ve been waiting for this review !!!
You got it!
Great info! Nice to see such a in depth comparison of these highend mid range recorders. Decisions, decisions, still up in the air about my next recorder. Thx Curtis
Thanks Richard.
Thanks for all of your videos. I have not done video and sound for a few years and they are helping me relearn old skills and learn some new skills.
Recently I purchased a MixPre-6 II to replace a Sound Devices 302. I have had one major issue with it that has caused me to return it. I connected it to a Canon R5 through the tripod screw and via stereo out to mic on the camera. TC on the MixPre was off (though on or off did not change the result). I had a mic on channel one using phantom power though a mic was not necessary to get the issue to appear. The MixPre was powered via NP-F but at other times 4 AA cells.
When recording all you could hear was the TC signal on the sound track. Remove the connection between the MixPre and the camera via the tripod screw and the sound goes away.
I tried many setting for video and audio. No change. I managed to get the sound to come through a Ninja V+ that connected to the camera hot shoe with an aluminium bracket. The Ninja was connected to the R5 with an HMDI cable. The MixPre was connected to the Ninja via stereo out to mic in on the Ninja.
I also tried a Canon R3 with similar results.
Working with Sound Devices we tried many permutations of the set-up but never resolved the issue.
My concern is that should I purchase another MixPre (if you can find one) the issue might reappear.
Have you ever come across anything like this using a MixPre or similar device?
Thanks for any comments. Darrill
I have heard of others pickup up a hum when the camera is attached directly to the top of the MixPre and those folks have found that putting a quick release plate and receiver between the recorder and camera solved the problem. But I've never heard of the camera picking up the timecode signal from the MixPre unless you had the output configured to send timecode.
Incredible review Curtis! Thank you! Definitely gotta pick this one up 👍
👍
What a fantastic review - many thanks. Will be ordering a MixPre II this week :)
Thanks Dan. I hope the MixPre works well for you!
Great review. Now with this wide dynamic range of the recorder, we will need to take a closer look at the dynamic range of the microphone. This is especially true for effects recording.
*QUESTION:* what file formats does the Sound Devices recorder support with the floating point format? I'm a bit out of touch with that, if things have changed. For example, How many tracks can be recorded in a single file? Are they limited to ether one mono track or one stereo track? (I'm assuming uncompressed or lossless compression data in this files too.) I took a look for floating point audio file formats but only found two; WavPack Lossless in WAV files and ALS in MPEG-4 files.
Hi Robert, the MixPre II Series and Zoom F6 both record 32-bit float to broadcast wav format in poly wav configuration. This means that the MixPre-10 II, for example, can record up to 12 tacks within a single wav file (8 mic/line inputs plus stereo mix).
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis.
Hi Curtis, I just got a Mixpre 3 ii. I watched a basic intro first and came here for the nitty gritty!
Congrats, Patrick! Happy recording!
How honest can you be in a video? I'm definitely going to post it in my group as a reference. And thanks for spending some money :-)
Thanks Rudy!
This is the best 32 bit demo and analysis video I’ve seen to date.
Thanks RallenMan!
Professor hello. Just a quick word. I now have the Sound Devices mix pre 6ii. Well I don't actually have it but it's been on back order and should ship out next week sometime. I purchased mine thru Broadcast Supply Worldwide. .my equipment list is growing exponentially!!! I now own a total of 32 mics and counting. Thank you sir for being the best..
Rev. Bailey
Thanks and I hope the MixPre works well for you and that impressive collection of mics. Happy recording!
@@curtisjudd :)
So nice to watch and listen to. You have a good energy. Very inviting and relaxing. My mind is not overloaded but inspired and made curious. And that's quite unique in UA-cam-land imo. Thanks!
Thanks Giorgo!
Thank you Curtis! It is always a great pleasure listening to and learning from your reviews.
Thanks Andrew!
Mr. Witt from Sound Devices got back to me. We worked everything out. Thanks again.
That's great news - thanks for the update!
It's been about 2 hours since I last used my original Mix-Pre 3, and I still thoroughly enjoyed this video. I've got a lot to learn before I need to upgrade, but I am fascinated with the new hardware. I also enjoy watching someone deliver a review without a stumble or a flub up. It's been about 2 hours since I stumbled through my own video, LOL. Well done, Curtis.
Thanks Joe. There were plenty of flub-ups that got cut. 😀
I picked up the MixPre 3 II a couple of weeks ago and could not be happier. I was using a Tascam DR-70D for the field and a MOTU Ultralite-mk3 in the studio. The MixPre is such a step up from both! The self noise is much better than both. The ergonomics is significantly better than the Tascam and of course the wide dynamic range is a game changer!
👍 Happy recording!
There should be a feature on youtube for professional/qualified review. Always a 10/10, thank you for the wealth of knowledge you share!
Thanks Sergio!
Great review as always! Looking forward to upgrading from my H4N to the Mix Pre-3 ii.
That’s a big upgrade. Happy recording!
What's your average gain setting on your MixPre10II ??? I found me cranking mine up to about mid 40's.... about 45db .... how about you??
I don't usually look at the number because it depends on which mic you're using, where it is positioned, and the voice you are recording. But for condenser microphones, I'm usually somewhere between 35 and 55dB of gain.
Excellent review! My F6 is on the way and it’s really helpful to see the comparison with the MixPre II. Thanks, Curtis!
Thanks Matt! Congrats on the new F6!
Very nice video. Can't wait for the next video on mixpre 6 II timecode options. If possible could you also cover the mixpre setup and details about connecting to various TC units (ambient, tentacle, etc...)
Thanks Alis.
Thanks for your great review, Curtis. Your reviews are always informative and trustworthy. Thanks for the detailed comparison of these and pointing out the importance of the headphone amps. When I switched over to Sound Devices products, I was immediately impressed with the quality of the headphone amp, and think it's a critical part of the recording process in the field.
Thanks Dave, always appreciate the feedback and your thoughtful comments. Happy recording!
I love listening to your reviews Curtis.
Thanks Saud.
Couple notes and questions:
- Voice sounding different at +76db: Since gain is still technically being applied, is it possible that by running the mic "hotter" than the others, its bass response is stronger and that's why you think it sounds different/better? (Or am I totally off-base?)
- If I just have 1 camera (specifically the UMP since you have that) there's nothing wrong with just using the MixPre II as a generator FOR the camera, too, right? Instead of buying one for it.
- Worth nothing that the pre-roll buffer drops to like 2 seconds (on MixPre-3 II) when in 32-bit mode. (Or at least 32-bit + 192khz)
I do wish the MixPre-3 could do USB backup while taking USB power - I refuse to futz with the NPF sled anymore and am only using USB batteries, but would love to give it a big flash drive to keep backups running.
Hi Adam, yes, the difference in sound is most likely the preamps changing in character at different gain settings. This is not unusual at all. You wouldn't get this on the Zoom F6 in 32-bit wide dynamic range mode because the gain level is hard set to unity (whatever that happens to be for that preamp.) There is nothing wrong with using the MP II as the timecode gen for the UMP. Thanks for the correction on the pre-roll time, my mistake there.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the comparison! Lots I didn't know, and helping prep me to play with the F6 that I'm testing atm :)
You should try a Battery distribution system with an NP1 battery cup. It powers through the input on bottom and frees up your USB port.
Great video. I just looked at the F6 website, it now has the wide dynamic range 32bit oat recording capabilities. Good to know you do some courses. I'll be doing some. Excellent videos.
Thanks Andrew.
Hello Curtis and a doggy question: I recorded from a session one mono mic channel and a stereo mic on channels 5&6 on a micpre6ii. Now as I take the "package of tracks" to Locig it opens it in 5 tracks - all mono and I cannot say which are the original channels and which are the two "bussed/masterout" channels, which obviously have all 3 channels mixed. This is to me a lack of clearence - it could be mended by a software update f.ex to mark the tracks in metadata to be readable right? Can you help me whit this or anyone other who happens to reasd this? Thanks in advance.
The first two tracks are the stereo mix, the third is the mono mic on input 1 and tracks 4&5 are the stereo mic on 5&6. Mix is always first, followed by the inputs in order.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis. I somehow just went blurred in this, and as I think of it now I understand that it is just the same "pack" on my DAW as on the screen of mixpre - exactly same picture, stack of tracks! Thank you.
Hi Curtis. Love the reviews and explainers. They truly explain.
If you're looking for why the hottest recording sounds different from the quietest, it might be down to the quietest clip using, basically, the least-significant bits of your PCM word. I'd love a true ADC geek to enlighten me, but from my limited experience, years ago, recording string quartets and such on 16/44.1 Sony PCM-1s, i was taught that recording too low meant using, essentially, too few of those limited bits--risking quantization errors. Most of the time what prevented that was the inherent noise in the mics and preamps--a rough-and-ready form of dithering, which linearizes the signal. But what I always noticed back then is that a too-low-yet-dithered recording still sounded different from ones with fuller levels and the same noise underneath.
So what you might be hearing is slightly differently modulated noise floors, selectively (and minutely) masking different parts of the spectrum.
Which is certainly not a knock on your signal chain. Mic, preamp and converter self-noise haven't changed drastically since the early days. Getting 70-some dB noise floors, through a mic and pre in a quiet studio is great. And even the best MilSpec ADC, wrapped in $20K worth of NASA-grade power supply, is only good for 20-22 bits of actual capture, because of noise. The additional bits are only good for headroom, which ain't a bad thing. We live in good times. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks for the detailed look!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Once again, extremely instructive video. Thank you very much for your effort to produce this.
You bet!
Thanks for the clear, informative review. I'd be interested in your tutorials.
Thanks bobtom reed. You can find the courses over at school.learnlightandsound.com and there are also several tutorials here on my UA-cam channel. Happy recording!
Thanks for the comprehensive review and I look forward to the TC review soon 👍
Thanks!
Hey Curtis, is it possible to set up a Mix-Pre so that the fader knob is assigned to adjust to channel gain (instead of the level sent to mix). I am trying to find a way to easily adjust input levels using these knobs. Thanks!
Yes, basic mode or custom mode with the channel knob mode set to basic.
At the 16:24 mark, I was anticipating you mentioning Sound Devices' Wingman iOS App for Mix Pre and 6-series product lines. (you later showed it at the 17:45 mark - my bad!)
That was at 18:18
Thanks for the very informative review/comparison. You mention a word I do not recognise and I can't find it on google. I may not be spelling it correctly. The word sounded like, "ampasonic".
Ambisonics. This refers to a special type of surround recording using specialized, multi-capsule microphones.
One thing to mention as I felt this section might of been a little misleading: the Mixpre ii’s Pre-roll function also decreases in time when choosing the higher sample rate / bit depth’s, just like the Zoom f6.
I’m not sure what the F6 ends up with when maxed out but I believe the Mixpre ii at 192khz, 32bit float, will only Pre-roll 2 Seconds.
Thanks Gavin, oversight on my part.
Thanks Curtis :) Very helpful information sequenced beautifully.
Thanks Antony.
Hi Curtis,
Great Review! In my opinion the biggest problem with the MixPre II series is the lack of outputs. If I remember correctly none of them even have a standard XLR L&R Output. Right now, I am liking the 833 a lot. It has a lot more common sense features like more outputs, 2 SD cards, and larger file sizes. I also like the SL-2 a lot; especially since Sound Devices and Audio Limited merged. The SL-2 allows the wireless receiver to transfer the signal digitally to the 833 recorder.
Cheers,
Mathew
Yes, if you are working on a production set where you need the outputs for IFBs or coms, yes, but of course that's not the market for which the MixPre is intended. The MixPre is made for situations where you don't need more than one 3.5mm output or, on the MixPre-10, 2 TA3 and one 3.5mm output.
Thanks Curtis for the juxtaposition. Very insightful. By the way, I really appreciate the sincerity and honesty in all of your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Gerry!
After using my MixPre 10 II all week on a film project here are my complaints:
1. Timecode occasionally (randomly) drifts compared to tentacle sync boxes and Denecke TSC slate.
2. The machine OVERHEATS like crazy. I was in shade the whole time, but the unit was extremely hot to the touch, moreso when multiple tracks are being recorded.
Anyone else experiencing these issues? My 633 has never (after 6 years of use) had these problems.
Hi Gerald, I haven’t noticed any drift issues. I believe the heat is normal given the thermal design of the MixPre where I suspect the case is essentially a heat sink. When you say yours overheated, do you mean it shut down or stopped working?
@@curtisjudd The machine was mostly solid, but the DIT came to me after lunch and complained that T/C was off by 30 seconds. I re-jammed and didn't have a problem until the next day when it randomly occurred again. Finally ... yesterday, after the 3rd complaint, I checked the tentacles on both cameras and compared them to the slate. They were rock solid with each other, but the machine was significantly off! I'm thinking that the timecode generator just isn't as accurate as the 633 when powering down for a few minutes, or changing batteries. I'd love to know if anyone else has experienced this! The heat issue wasn't enough for the machine to shut down, but it made me nervous - as it was very hot to the touch. If I were using it outdoors in July, I'm thinking it might not have survived! (Edit: Thanks for responding. Sorry I answered from my other account)
@@hartleyroadmusic Yes, I would ALWAYS rejam after powering down. Some people have complained of issues of that even on the 633. But probably worth contacting Sound Devices support.
@@curtisjudd interesting. I’ve never had to rejam using my 633 after powering down. That’s a good 6+ years of almost daily use! That’s a testament to the quality of the 633 t/c generator!!
I'm confused about which gain controls I should use.
The MixPre 3 II manual states: "Channel knob controls all gain for a channel. Dual gain stage. Input gain is set in the Channel Screen. Channel knob controls post-fade levels to mix bus."
So I have two XLR cables with input set to Mic, recording stereo/binaural . When I press the knob the touch screen menu allows me to adjust the gain on the screen. Then, the knob itself when turned seems to adjust the gain. Which should I be using and why?
I record 1+ hour long continuous 4k walks though the streets and want noise to be as low as possible, but pickup the sound of voices, cars, etc. The goal being to capture 3D ambience.
I bought your course on the device BTW.
Hi Droogles, it depends on whether you're in basic or advanced/custom mode. It also depends on how you wish to work. If you want the knob to control gain and give up your fader, then stick with basic mode. If you want the knobs to act as faders because you'll be actively mixing, then you'll want advanced mode. That's the first step. I hope that and the course helps!
Curtis Judd thanks. I’m in advanced mode. For my purposes is it fine to set the on-screen gain to the lowest setting and adjust the gain (or is it fade?) with the physical knob? I don’t understand the difference between fade and gain. I’m new to audio. Hope my question makes sense.
Yes, makes sense. There’s a segment in the course titled “What is Mixing” which describes the difference. I hope that helps.
And to clarify, no, you will want to set the gain setting to a level such that the audio hits around -18 to -12dB on the meters. Then use the fader knobs to adjust how much of each mic is sent to the stereo mix.
Curtis Judd I think I understand now. I need to adjust the on-screen gain for each channel to hit -12 for whatever environment I’m in (will be different each time), then keep each channel fader knob set at zero initially and adjust them up and down together as needed? Being that I’m using 32 bit float, the fader part can probably be ignored and any adjustments done in post?
Have a question. If I understand correctly, the mixpre can work as an external sound card with PC or Mac. What about iPhone? Can the mixpre work as an external sound card with iphone?
I've heard yes, just two channels.
@@curtisjudd Cool
- edit: I stand corrected! - Correct me if I’m wrong, but the MixPre-6 II does not have timecode output whereas Zoom F6 has a minijack timecode (LTC) out and you can connect it straight to your dslr minijack audio input with cheap minijack-minijack cable for timecode sync. This will essentially save you the cost of one Tentacle Sync (240€) if you wish to sync the timecode with the recorder and camera. The MixPre-10 II is the only in the series with timecode output which brings me to the second question: will the BNC timecode output give the same type of signal output as a minijack timecode out? If yes the it would be usable with a BNC-minijack cable to sync a dslr via the camera audio input. Anyways great video as always, thanks!
Incorrect. All of the MixPre II series recorders have built-in timecode generators and can output timecode via their 3.5mm outputs.
Fantastic video! SO much useful information, and so nicely presented!! A+++
Thanks Ken.
How do you not have 30 trillion followers. Such a resource. Thank you!
Hahaha! We focus on quality of subscriber rather than quantity. 😀
Ordered my MixPre6 II yesterday☺️
Congrats and happy recording! 🎙
Great video. I was just wondering if someone could clue me in as to why we're not recording 32 bit float all the time if it can salvage almost anything?
Hi Linus, it also requires two or more analogue to digital converters and a way to effectively merge the output of the 2+ converters and THEN put that in a 32-bit float file. Many recorders are focused on hitting a specific price point so they'd rather forgo the additional hardware and R&D required to make it work well.
25:26 beautifully said Curtis. Keep it up, love watching your videos!
Thanks Viraj! 👍
So good, thank you. One question - You can’t set the limiters if you’re using float, right… because you don’t need it. However if you’re recording primary audio in-camera, and using the MixPre recording as a backup, can you set limiters for the output to the camera?
Hi PhotoJoseph, unfortunately, I don't believe the MixPre has output limiters. However, for live, I'd probably use 24-bit mode and turn those limiters on there.
@@curtisjudd thanks mate!
This guy is the man. Very good review.
Thanks Levi!
Hi Curtis, thank you so much for all of your great reviews and videos. I almost watched them all and learned a lot (After 8 years of studying film at one of the best film universities and working in the field for more than 20 years that means something). After working as director, screenwriter on bigger feature films, I came lately to the decision to make a more guerrilla-one-man-show-documentary-project and started watching your channel, as well as Gerald's and Josh's. I've bought a Sony Alpha 7 III and some other stuff and now was planning to buy a Field Recorder. In this video you are mentioning all the differences between the Zoom F6 and MixPreSeries but somehow you forgot to mention one of the most important features of the MixpreSeries for a one-man-show-shooting which as far as I understand is missing at the F6:
The Record-Trigger via HDMI. With this option you wouldn't need a external-TC-sync as Nano-Lockit or TentantcleSync because it not only syncs the timecode of your camera with the sounddevice but also starts the recording at the same time!
With this exact starting point of both files (audio and video) you would not even need the timecode to sync in postproduction as you have exact same file length. (By saying that, the rec trigger would be more important for a solo-shooter than TC-Sync which becomes relevant if you work with more than one camera). So last week we had a shooting where I wanted to test this. The rental only had the old Mixpre 3 I Version available and I was facing several problems, not sure if they occurred because of a broken device or the older version or or or:
- USB Power (via Powerbank) occurs the following problem: cannot read TC because of Low Power
-Batteries both (rec trigger and tc sync) worked but batteries only lasted for half an hour
While connected to a Sony Alpha 7 III the camera thinks it is a monitor that is connected. This means: The moment you hit the record button on the camera both devices start recording but the Picture on the Sony-Monitor disappears which means there's is no way of operating /controlling the shot/ picture.
I am aware of that you are mostly using the GH5 and I also watched all videos of Gerald regarding the HDMI Settings which only helps if you record on an external monitor. I've also tried to find other videos and manuals. There is one by sounddevice regarding the Alpha7s but the setup did not work: cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPreSeries-SonyA7SR.pdf
As this option - recording on all devices with one button - is a super relevant topic for all one-man-shows (e.g. vloggers) I (and maybe others) would be sooooo thankful if you could give feedback on this.
Thank you so much in advance!
Best
Niels
Hi Niels, Thanks for bringing this up and I agree, it needs some discussion. I can say this: I am not impressed with the implementation of this feature. The problem appears to be that only *some* cameras work and only in *some* configurations. On top of that, the HDMI input is the HDMI-micro port which is extraordinarily lacking in robustness when one is solo operating for the types of situations you cite.
Inserting an ATOMOS or other recorder between the camera and MixPre seems to create even more problems as we documented in this video from some time ago: ua-cam.com/video/30MGH_2rwqY/v-deo.html
It is not entirely the fault of Sound Devices. The problem appears to stem back to the fact that the HDMI standards do not have a clear spec for how timecode and timecode flags are to be passed via HDMI. I think this is due to the fact that HDMI was created for consumer devices rather than professional equipment. So it appears that each manufacturer implements the HDMI timecode and control flags differently. Sound Devices does put forth some effort to work with as many cameras as they can as demonstrated by the most recent firmware update which expanded the list of cameras it recognizes.
Despite the fact that ATOMOS insists that they pass-through all HDMI timecode and control flags, it does not appear to work so there's something going on there as well. People have put together complicated work-arounds which involve powered HDMI splitters but that seems like a rather impractical solution if you're a solo operator.
In short, I don't consider this feature reliable enough to consider it a major pro in favor of the MixPre. Not because I think it wouldn't be useful for a lot of people, but because of the technical challenges and the limited number of scenarios where it works.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much Curtis, for your swift reply and all the in-depth-information. It's super interesting and true that HDMI is more of a consumer connection. I have seen your mentioned video with the atomos and the sound device before, although it does not really tackle my problem as I just want to use the sounddevice without passing through an external monitor. I wonder if the configuration works with only your MixPre and the GH5 without losing the picture on the GH5 monitor. So in my case Rec-Trigger and TimeCode-Transfer works perfectly but once I start recording I loose the picture on my internal monitor and viewfinder. Is this only a Sony proplem? Does the MixPre pretend to be a monitor? Is there any HDMI port that makes a difference and give a feedback to the camera that it is ONLY a sound device that needs a TC-Signal and REC-Trigger? I fear that you have answered the question by saying that there is no standard with HDMI, but just wonder if you know someone who could work with a Sony Alpha and a MixPre by starting the MixPre via Rec/Trigger / TC-Information and having a picture to control your shot at THE SAME TIME. Thanks again for your time and effort!
I also remember some tascam recorders with this tc in / rec trigger option. So my basic question is if there has ever been a workflow between a camera an a field recorder without an external monitor as in your mentioned video?
And how do you start and sync your devices if you shoot alone and not with a filmcrew? Always pressing two buttons for starting the recording? And how do you sync audio and video track? Always with auxiliary tc on audio tracks of the video files or with sound recognition in your NLE software?
@@jumpseat Fair question. Hopefully somebody will see this who owns a Sony and can confirm. You might also contact Sony support and ask whether there is a camera setting you can use to prevent the monitor from turning off when recording. Best wishes!
I didn't expect the noise floor to be so low for the clip that was recorded with low gain, then heavily boosted in post. Noise is introduced in each step until the signal is turned into 1s and 0s, but I think that the biggest source is usually from the pre-amp. The more gain there is in the pre-amp. the more noise is introduced. Does the low gain on the pre-amp, and thus less noise introduced, fully explain the result we saw here?
(Also, I was listening on nothing-special earbuds, and I could definitely hear that significant shift in timbre from the high gain setting.)
Hi Thomas, I expect that the low self-noise of the preamp is likely the majority of the reason for the great self-noise performance even on the over-gained and under-gained samples.
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Since Zoom and SD have announced their dual Analog to Digital converter + 32 bit float systems, I have been guessing that the pre-amp would become even more important in the signal chain. Looks like SD very much have that covered here, which is great. Looking forward to learning if Zoom's pre-amps in the F6 are on the same level. Should be a very good thing us consumers in this price range!
@@tomdchi12 The F6 preamps checked out pretty nicely in my initial tests a few months back - I think you already saw that video?
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Thanks for reminding me! I'll re watch to compare - sounds like Zoom haven't made any changes to the electronics from your pre-release to what they are manufacturing now for full release.
👍
Please could post link of the anker power bank to buy today for mixpre 6 ii
They don’t make the one I bought 7 years ago anymore. I’d look for one of the models with power delivery (PD).
I’m not sure if this changed in the last 2 years, but I noticed that the Mix Pre series has a plug-in called auto mix now, so that’s not an advantage of the zoom anymore
Yes, and NoiseAssist, too. But also far more expensive today than back then. The gap in price is even bigger now than in 2019.
Curtis, I’m having a huge problem with my new mix pre 3 ii. I cannot figure out how to enable phantom power at all. It says to press in on the gain knob, but.... it’s not doing anything..?? I’m not sure I’m doing it right but I’ve literally looked at every setting I could reach. I am stuck on the “menu” setting, and I read that there is a “channel” setting which you can access to utilize phantom and many other things. I cannot reach the “channel”. I have my rode ntg 5 mic with an xlr cable plugged into it. Can you help???
Push the knob for the input to which your NTG5 is attached. That brings up the channel menu. Go to the second page of the menu. Tap +48V to turn on the phantom power. I also have an in-depth MixPre course over at school.learnlightandsound.com.
Good explanation. I had to replay a few times to remember everything you demonstrated. Would you mind creating a video that shows what settings should be on both MixPre-6 II and Leica SL/SL2 when establishing timecode? I tried having the SL2 generate but it didn’t send to the MixPre, then I tried getting the MixPre to send to the SL2 and still no success. I viewed the timecode setup portion of your course I just enrolled in but it doesn’t address it. I am sure there’s something I’m missing. Hoping you can help…among the 200 other tasks you’re already working on!
Hi! Unfortunately I don’t have and SL2 on hand to confirm how to set up on that side. Probably best to contact Leica support.
Great review as always. Thank you Curtis!
Thanks xak huh!
Hi Curtis,
The MixPre II series only has a left and right line out. can you describe how to get multiple camera hop channels for a two camera shoot. a Low cost stereo camera hop setup is something that about everyone could use.. there are some really nice and very expensive systems out there.. it would be nice if there was a single device that handled transmitting from the bag, including talk back, IFB, and camera hops. do you know of anything? and what do you use for camera hops?
Hello Traunch Trauncher, it is a great question. I don't often do camera hops in my corporate work as the budget doesn't call for it and the pieces are pretty straightforward. But the soon to be released DEITY BP-TRX looks like it may be a pretty decent option and much less expensive than many of the pro level IFB systems.
@@curtisjudd I've been looking at that one. and it it really does hit the market at the advertised 249.00 per unit, it will be a steal. Thanks for the reply Curtis!
I just received my Mixpre 10 ii! I sound tested it with my lav mic, Shure TL48, and wow what a difference!
That's excellent news! Congratulations and happy recording!
Hey, great that you’re doing in depth paid for courses now. Enjoyed lots of your UA-cam stuff so I’ll be emptying my wallet your way for them!
Thanks J B, I hope you find them helpful!
Curtis Judd some GH5/video production courses would also be welcome :)
@@farmersuiticles I'm working toward a lighting course. Caleb Pike (DSLR Video Shooter) has camera guides which may be helpful.
Great review as usual. Thanks!
Thanks!
At 19:04 you show the gain being set in a menu. Why? Are all those knobs on the front just faders? Is that the case only when recording 32bit, or at all times? (And thanks again, for the great, informative video)
Hi San Jacobs, that is because I have the MixPre in Advanced mode so it works more like a traditional mixing board where you set the gain in the menu and then the knob is a fader. You can switch to basic or custom mode where the knobs are used to control gain.
@@curtisjudd Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the quick response! Keep up the great work! :)
It is officially time to retire my SD 442/Tascam DR70D setup. Thanks, Curtis for the information.
Rest in peace, trusty 442.
Do these have a built in filter and limiter like the 600s?
Yes, they have an analogue limiter for each input and high pass filters built-in.
Nice review Curtis! I particularly enjoyed the freq plot comparisons of the 3 gain structures. Damn, those Pres are good! Oddly.I found myself liking the 6db gain setting one the best.
I did notice at one point (10:25) that the Batt indicator says EXT with an internal battery symbol. That seeems to be a departure from the way the older MixPre displaed it, with a power input symbol instead. Am i misplaced?
Yes, it looks like that was changed. I think the change was actually in a firmware prior to the MixPre II but not positive on that. Or maybe it is just the 10T and 10 II which do that.
exactly informative to what i’m looking for . amazing video man keep it up
trying to figure out my audio system, coming form the cine world
👍 Thanks!
Another great review, especially for being unbiased, as you deal with the obvious elephant in the room, comparing to the Zoom F6. I still went for the F6 because of the feature distinctions from smaller footprint to pricing to powering options, but still find it baffling why Zoom only develops for iOS and not Android.
Yeah, leaving out android sends some message to a significant portion of their customer base.
Yes, that seems a pretty big gap on the Zoom side.
Great video Curtis, what we need now is how to normalize & compress the 32bit float audio in audition 2019...!!
👍
thanks for your reply to my question earlier, quick followup if you don't mind, if using the preii with say the rode video mic pro + (via 3.5 jack) what are the drawbacks/limitations on quality compared to using a xlr shotgun mic? thanks again.
I don't think it is worth the price if you'll just be using a VideoMic Pro. The VM Pro has its own preamp which will clip before it gets the audio signal to the MixPre so you lose the 32-bit float benefit.
Cannot find this info anywhere. If used as a bus powered USB interface, does it power on with the computer and start working as an interface, without needing to dive into the menus every time?
Hi Harri, first, only the 3 and 6 can be bus powered by the computer. Second, yes, on a Mac at least, they do not need to be reconfigured every time if you are using the MixPre as a USB interface.
Off topic, I have the original MixPre 3 and a GH5. If I attach MixPre to base of camera, I get a low level clicking sound, when the mixer is connected to mic input on camera and monitoring the camera. This seems to happen even when the mixer is turned off. It happens when using batteries. However, if I place a QR plate between mixer and camera clicking goes away. I’m puzzled.
I have heard others cite the same issue but not with any other cameras. It sounds like the GH5 may have a grounding or shielding issue of some sort if I had to guess.
Curtis Judd thanks to confirm this. As it happens having the qr plate between them is a bonus for setup speed.
@@JohnnyMotel99 You can use a ground loop isolator like this ... www.amazon.com/Mpow-Ground-Isolator-Stereo-System/dp/B019393MV2
FAB review Curtis! Couple of things I would like to add.... Customer support and ruggedness.
I work all over the world and all my SD kit (yep still have a bombproof 633 that always works. hot, cold, humid, rain, dust -Always) just works. On the couple of rare times where I had an issue (ruined out to be an ID 10 T error on my part) the team as SD picked up the phone call and talked me through a fix.
Try doing that with the Zoom people! NOT.
Thanks for the review!
Thanks and yes, really good point! If you need a repair, the SD support is top notch. Same with questions and working out of tight situations.
I'm not sound engineer, i'm a musician. I have Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k and i just bought an MixPre 3 II. I hear that i can synchronize this devices via timecode for audio but i don't know how it works. You can give some tips? Thank you!
Hi Sergiu, we do cover this in our MixPre Course over at School.LearnLightAndSound.com. In short, you use a 3.5mm stereo mini jack cable from the MixPre's aux output into the P4K's 3.5mm mic input. You do need to configure the MixPre to send timecode out via the 3.5mm aux output.
@@curtisjudd It's working! :) ua-cam.com/video/mfckDcZDwNA/v-deo.html
My second or third viewing. Currently I use the Rodecaster. I pull my audio off of that device, and add it to my video in post production. I have focused more on video. But I’m trying to bring my audio skills up more.
👍 your audience is lucky that you care.
Would you know if you can save to a SSD card from the MixPre IIs?
It records to SD cards and backs up to USB thumb drives.
Curtis I really like your videos they are very informative. Wondering if you could make a video that shows how much budget is required for a beginner, intermediate, and pro level location sound bag kit. Thanks!
Thanks Sean. Good idea, I'll think about how to approach that.
@@curtisjudd Thanks so much for the reply Curtis! I'm very curious to know because quite frankly, you could easily spend just $10k on the field mixer/recorder but I've also seen options to buy an entire (beginner) kit for $10k inclusive. Hope that makes sense?
Is the ONLY difference between Mix Pre 3ii and Mix Pre 6ii the inputs? and physical size of course.
A few other differences: 96kHz max sample rate and a total of 3 inputs at a time, including the stereo 3.5 mm input on the MixPre-3 II. So essentially, two of the XLR inputs are disabled if you use the 3.5mm stereo input.
@@curtisjudd Thank this is helpful. I have been enjoying your channel and learning tons--thanks for all the time you put into this! ~kevin
I am ryan from Jakarta, I want to ask, I have a problem with the 10t mixpre that I have, so he has no display or black screen, so only the sound device logo is lit, do you think there is a solution for my 10p mixpre?
Ryan, please contact Sound Devices support. Best wishes.
Hello Curtis! I just got myself a Mix Pre 3 II and i got stumbled in a setup issue. I want to record each of the 3 channels independently in advanced mode but all I get is a single file with all ch mixed. If I import that file in Reaper does not get separated automatically. It does get separated only in Audacity. Is there any way I could do this inside Sound Devices? maybe even monitor the channels individually after recording? Thanks!
Hi Nadayana, Yes, this is a poly wav file. Each microphone is recorded to its own track plus the stereo mix are on two separate tracks. I am not familiar with Reaper so I'm not sure how to split them apart but I would imagine that asking how to split a poly wav file apart in the Reaper forums may get you the help you need. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks for replying! But isn't there a way to split the poly wav file into individual tracks inside Sound Devices? I would like to verify them after recording and before importing them on my laptop
@@Nadayana There is not a way to split the file apart in the recorder, but on playback, you can solo each microphone by going into the channel menu for that microphone.
Hi curtis great videos thanks! I want to use the Mixpre in a very basic way, knob controlling gain, only recording a single ISO track (stereo mix track not needed). All working fine apart from I can't listen back to the recording I've just made on CH1 through the headphones on playback? Am I missing something not selecting the right HP preset? many thanks
Yes, sounds like your headphone presets need a review: ua-cam.com/video/H_fzuu0m7OE/v-deo.html
Is there a way to navigate the menu without using the touch display? I didn't see anything mentioned in the manual. I'm thinking of those times when recording in damp weather, and wondering if there is a backup method if navigating the touch display becomes difficult...or the off chance the touch display fails. I understand the headphone knob is used to make menu item adjustments, but does it double to navigate? Any hard key combination that navigates? Thanks!
Hi Joey, no, most menu navigation requires touching the screen.
Hey Curtis! Thank you. I've been holding out hope for a Zoom 'F4n' or similar recorder with 32-bit float recording. The F6 is exciting, but not quite the form factor and features I am after. And since Zoom didn't have a new recorder to announce at NAMM this weekend, I am taking a closer look at the MixPre II. I wonder if there are any key combinations remaining to where they could add it as a feature in an update. Not sure if I'm the only one with the touch display navigation concern... That and the battery handling are the only two concerns I have with the MixPre. Otherwise, it looks and sounds great!
What happens when you are in 48khz/32 bit mode for your boom on channel 1 but your wireless lav on channel 2 only sends 44.1khz or 48khz at 24 bit?
Hi Derik, Wireless systems generally convert their audio back to analogue at the receiver and send analogue audio to the recorder. In this case, the MixPre would re-convert it from analogue to 32-bit float, 48kHz. With many of the pro-level wireless systems, they can actually feed digital audio directly to the mixer/recorder from the receiver - this is what I do with my Audio Ltd A10 and Sound Devices 888.
Oh wow thank you for the response. Is this the case for products like the Rodelink wireless and Deity Connect?
@@derik_niez RODELink and DEITY Connect receivers convert the audio back to analogue and then the recorder re-converts it back to digital. They cannot send digital audio to recorders or cameras.
So the files coming from those two systems would result in 32 bit files if recorded to a 32 bit mode?
Hmm, does the MixPre accept a file from outside world for playback, or does it only play back files it has recorded itself? Eg. I would have a song that has timecode audio on one channel, which I would play in MixPre, route the output into camera, which then locks the camera to the song for instant sync.
That didn't work in my initial tests, unfortunately. It seems the MixPre is probably creating some sort of proprietary index of the recorded files and only plays them back if they're in that index. At least that's my guess.
@@curtisjudd Aww, too bad. Fostex FR2LE does the same, BUT! There was some function in the menu that made other files appear in the playlist.
Thank you Curtis. This is invaluable to us noobs who are trying to choose equipment for our future capabilities. Currently I’m very early in my AV career, and have a zoom h5, a Scarlett solo, and a beachtek and a 70d that I picked up second hand. Was considering a new gen Focusrite 2i2 to help with my NT1, but then...why not consider a Mix Pre 3 to cover all bases? Seems like a considerable upgrade on all of my recorders/interfaces. I can keep the solo plugged into my computer for face to face meetings, and the h5 for highly mobile stuff with the NTG3 or Lav, and use the Mix pre for everything in between. I feel as though I will be unappreciative for all the struggles that audio guys of the past went thru.
Thanks Andrew. That seems like a good strategy!
I loved one man in my life and that's Jesus and now I love another man and that's Curtis ahahahaha these videos are so informative they don't get the justice they deserve this is 700k views worth plus some . thank you for all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Adlai!
IMPORTANT ISSUE !!! When I play a clip in Mixpre-3 II (off rec mix st, 32 bits mode, mono track) I listend a shrill-strident-clipping sound very unpleasant in the beggining of the track. I can see in the monitor of Mixpre-3 II clipping all the tracks. It sound very strong and damage my ears when I use headphones. Not happen in other modes (16, 24 bits) or mix st included in the file. This doesn't happen in the sound editor (pc), only when I play the clips in the mixpre 3 II. It is obviously not normal. Is it a mistake of my unit? Should I return to the store?
Steps to Reproduce:
Rec solo track mono (imput 1,2 or 3), off rec mix st, 32 bits mode, playing clip in Micpre-3 II.
Actual Results:
Strident sound clipping in the beginning of the track. I listen in my headphones and see in the monitor clipping all the tracks (included not rec)
Does anyone else have this problem? Thanks!
Hi Sergio, I have not experienced this issue. I would encourage you to contact SD support. They are typically very responsive and good at resolving issues. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks! I contacted SD and still waiting response. This issue happen whith a very specific configuration. Only if you rec a mono track in 32 bits and play after in Mixpre-3 II. It's like a glitch sound in the beginning, clipping all the tracks. Most people includes st mix when rec, this would explain why no one has noticed. It's nasty monitoring in location this way.
Hi Sergio, I just set my MixPre-3 II up the way you described - 32 bit, L+R off, record one channel mono - and did not experience a loud sound at the start of playback. I had to use a custom headphone preset with all three iso channels selected to playback post fader. Is this the same as the headphone preset you're using?
@@curtisjudd Thank you very much for your supporting. You are the best!
I have finally found the real problem: TIMECODE (yes). From the beginning I set the timecode to off. This combined with the previous configuration (32 bit, mono track, off mix st) produces the sound glitches when I playback. I don't know why this happens or if it occurs in all manufactured units. My firmware version is 4.01.
Would it be too much trouble if you were to test again? Thanks, thanks, thanks....
@@SergioManuelSanchez
Tested as you specified and yes, I do get a very loud pop when I press play. Have you already reported this to SD? That needs to be fixed and hopefully firmware can fix it.
Full marks for using MDR 7506 cans!
👍🎧
Hey Curtis The zoom F series have a feature removed from them can you confirm this for me?
Zoom H series come with compressor/limiter Menu. Where the newer F series only get the Limiter feature.
For such a wider dynamic range Zoom should have really carried over the compressor feature what's up with that.
Zoom F6 can set output signal levels from −48.0 to +12.0 dB to match up with a large variety of devices.
As well it can apply the Limiter feature to the output to avoid clipping the connected device. In this case the compressor feature here would of been a Massive Plus and a rough example of what the final audio could be closer to after editing 32bit file in post.
Hi Cheyen.S, That is a worthy question for empirical testing. I'm not sure that a compressor could necessarily handle all of the potential exceeding 0dBFS. The output is capable of up to +10dBV, a measure of voltage vs. digital level. A compressor could certainly help in some circumstances but not necessarily all.
@@curtisjudd I wouldn't see much of an issue handling that output if the limiters can the compressor would also be able to, given it gets a decently high enough compression ratio. Which is also not impossible as mostly everything is being handled digitally now.
"a compressor is used to compress a sound’s dynamic range. That is, to make the louder and quieter parts of the sound’s performance closer to each other in level.
It does this in one of two ways. In “downward compression,” the compressor attenuates the signal when it gets too loud. This is the most common form of compression.
In “upward compression,” the compressor boosts signal until it reaches a certain level. In either case, the dynamic range becomes narrower." - by Griffin Brown, iZotope Contributor.
Basically the compressor's advantage is a "fuller" sound less fatiguing , high peaks and softer audio become closer.
"The main reason to use compression is that, by increasing the RMS level, the sound as a whole will sound “louder” and more present in the mix. This loudness is something that our ears naturally enjoy, which was what my friend was picking up on when he said compressors make things “sound good.”
Compression will cause the sound to be less dynamic and organic, but this added presence can help a sound stand out in the mix. ie. (or hear unwanted low sound level noises to be easily picked out and avoided from getting baked into the mix)
Compressors are also important for controlling the dynamics of live-recorded instruments and vocals. These tend to vary quite widely in level over the course of a performance, so some compression can help make the level more consistent.
This will sound fuller and more polished, more like the “professional” sound of instruments in the mix. However, you can always opt to perform less compression (or none at all) if you want to preserve an organic quality to the performance."
As you can see here again.
So it would be more helpful compressing the huge dynamic range to a more comfortable monitoring or playback level, ie. in those moments of high dynamic range recording, gun shots, rain falling or trickling at very low sound levels while thunder goes off in the background, or race cars passing by at High SPL and still hear the pebbles skip across the road. Not having to adjust the headphone output levels as it goes loud and gets back soft, which was somewhat the point here of being a one man crew and focusing on the video captured not worrying about my headphone volume going through the roof trying to listen to a soft sound and something very loud goes off.
This is where Zoom F6 has the limiter feature that can be applied to the output of the headphones as well as 3.5mm line out to a device. Simply add back the compressor function to the F series and we can send compressed audio to any device, other than strictly brick wall limiting which does come out harsh at times. Then work on 32 bit in post on the original if needed ex. for a job or client.
But the mock up would give a greater feel of the end product. Or simply be ready for direct posting on social media without extra time spent editing.
So yeah that is my take, they could add back the compressor feature they had in the old Zoom H models in a future update.
What would be the softest sound SPL level these two recorders can record respectively? Like a pin drop, soft rustling of leaves, anechoic chamber recording what would be the absolute lowest SPL that can be picked up with decent quality. Using those Ultra low noise mics ex. 3-5dBa such as Lewitt LCT 540 or better. At what minimum Ambient SPL Can the lower noise floor Mix Pre record down to? 5 dBA 10dBA 15dBA? Until noise floor destroys it?
@@BushMasterThermal Not sure, would need a microphone in that class to test. Also, how would one test that? Gain up how much on the MixPre? Or lower the gain so that we could handle how much SPL on the high end? Would need some help devising a good testing strategy.
Curtis, I have a little problem I can't find solution to... I'm recording 32bit for a project, but our worklflow demands to first sync the audio and videofiles in Adobe Premiere and then getting the synced audiofiles with videoreference to another PC to work on with Studio One and RX7 (DAW). I reliased that, when I'm getting the files rendered out of premiere (with lossless render settings), the magic of 32bit doesnt seem to work anymore and I'm seeing alot of noise when turning the gain up on those recordings. Would you happen to know any solution to this. Thanks in advance.
Hi Bruce, you'll need to make sure to reduce the gain on any clips where the audio exceeds 0dBFS prior to exporting from Premiere. Best wishes!
Are the limiters adjustable in Custom Mode while using 24 bit recording? I looked through the settings and didn’t see the “Limiters” tab under the System menu. Not necessarily a big deal, but I feel as though I’m missing something.
I believe you can but need to switch one of the custom options to advanced…don’t have it here in front of me so can’t check at the moment, but I would set the channels to advanced first.
On the MixPre, 32 bit audio that is cliping, also will clip on the camera when send to it via line-out. Is this the same on the F6?
Yes, also the case for the F6 and every other wide dynamic range recorder/mixer of which I am aware.
love the videos. help so much when I'm thinking of new gear!
Thanks Daniel
I'm a simple man.* I see a Curtis Judd episode, I click it, I watch the ads** (to support his channel), and I thumbs up the video (even before watching it).
* Because I think he is a nice person, with the bonus that he provides such an in-depth, honest opinions on products. And I love the fact he gets right to it with the PROs and CONs right at the beginning!
** Huh, seems like no ads in this one. Interesting! That's okay. I just watch another video. Saramonic gave me a juicy ad at 2 minutes 59 seconds... And that's just one of two ads. Haha! Oh, another one now (chgardens) at a minute 56. :) I make sure not to skip the ads. Tricky UA-cam, with your blank few seconds at the end so that people impatiently press skip.
Just finished watch the video. Curtis, you freakin' rock. What a great overview. When I have "extra" money, I'll probably get the Mix Pre 6 II. Money is going towards a Skydio 2 at the moment. xD Haha!
Thanks huyked! 👍