I'm still just flabbergasted someone signed off on sending account information to potential problematic users, as part of of protecting users from said problematic users. Like, bro...
It is a major issue they thought that was a good fix to the blacklist to make it better. My hope is they can revert back to the old system while they work on a new system that won't show account information. It eiter has to be server side (Which I don't think they wanna do simply for data requirements) or potentially only load account info while you are logging in? I don't know...but whatever it is, it shouldn't be something that can be used to detect user info.
I find that very creepy. You can "subscribe" to characters! If they change their hairstyle, you get notified, if they change their race, you get notified, if they change their name, you get notified! Literally tells you everything they do at all times!
I'm pretty sure this happens on the Lodestone by default, frankly the default settings for the Lodestone giving you constant updates on everything on any character you've even looked at is just a bit much. While I was a being wee bit hyperbolic, I also feel like maybe I don't need to know when dingle-dongus launches a sub, it just doesn't seem that important.
@moosecat00 some people see their character as an extension of themselves. For those people it is even scarier! Imagine a drone constantly flying over your head, watching every little step you do.
@@TobinatorTx Yeah, but this is a default game feature, you can go private after the fact, but what I was saying is that much of the lodestone features feel wasted on me at least.
LMFAO WAIT it does this?!?!?! YIKES that's terrifying. I had no idea you can literally "subscribe" to player data via this plugin this is crazy. That's like holy hell what the oh my gosh =s
@@ColeEvyx exactly! That was my reaction. That happens when you let players do whatever they want in a game without any kind of safety measures. You should read the official forums. They are calling for anti cheat, the japanese players are calling for boycot until the issue is resolved. It's wild!
I don't think an Anticheat will stop this because the data is coming in client side so they could scrape the data without getting caught pretty easily. SE needs to change their Blacklist system to either be server side or do something else so it doesn't show your account ID. At most they can IP ban, but people can change their IP. They've used trial accounts to show the program off so we don't know their main account.
They don't need to do any of that, just implement weekly micro patches and all mods will disappear overnight. No anti cheat programs or black list changes are necessary.
@BaithNa micro patches don't really effect plugins usually. It's the big patches that do messing with the network and databases for the game when the release new content. Doing that is a lot of extra work for the dev team to do forever.....instead of fixing the underlying problem they created.
@@BaithNa Even if that did work for mods, it won't stop this tracking as mods aren't required to gather this information. They only streamline it. The new blacklist system is just poorly designed from a security standpoint.
From what I understand from other people the data is so plainly accessible in the memory that even if they had implemented an anti-cheat you could still retrieve all of this information so it's ultimately up to SE to do something about it. I don't think this adheres to the spirit of their intent with the blacklist system so it should eventually be resolved.
ya you can get the info with wireshark to just look at your network traffic and pull it out. you dont need a mod to interact with any of the game's memory to learn this info. the in game overly certainly makes it a bit easier to parse stuff, but thats it really.
They don't need any anti cheat programs, just weekly micro patches and no modders will be able to update their mods in time for the next patch. Problem solved overnight.
@@BaithNa depends on the mod, depends on how it works. micro patches will litterally need to change lines of code that do stuff and that may make bugs that effect more people. some mods just read network info and patching the game wont change that. and the moment they stop the mods return.
I like how some are like “the foreigners” when jp has been involved in the biggest mod controversies within the past few years several times. Blame the specific modders plz.
Most Japanese players are on consoles so the vast majority of them don't use mods and the only reason JP players use mods in the worlds first is because western players use them. Stay in school, kid.
@ My coy cat boy, nobody is denying every region cheats but JP has been caught on live during the race several times in a row. Everyone uses the excuse “Well they did it first!” Nobody should be throwing stones like that in the first place because everyone cheats, especially by SE standards. Mods or no. If you’re gonna do mods don’t stream and dumbasses keep streaming. So evidently they do have to cheat because they’re not that smart.
This is 100% a problem SE created by choosing to look the other direction; it was only a matter of time before malicious modders appeared. Unless SE either goes iron curtain or actually polices each mod (unlikely), this issue is only gonna get worse.
Any tool capable of reading game data (e.g. Cheat Engine) or sniffing network data (e.g. ACT, Wireshark) is able to grab and extract these values. For similar reasons, anti-cheats would be ineffective at resolving this problem. The only practical solution would be to alter the blacklist system to not send raw IDs to the client.
To be fair, XIValexander and some Dalamud plugins simply make the game *playable* for a lot of people. Not having something to fix the ping issues is a death sentence. A full blown anti-cheat will result in many people simply no longer being able to do content. The degen crowd (which is a pretty large chunk of players at this point) will also leave if anything stops them from being able to use their weird NSFW mods. This right here leaves SE with a major problem. They must choose between losing a significant number of players - and thus sub fees and mogstation purchases - or allowing mods to continue running rampant.
Realistically square loses a lot of money because of the modders. People that mod dont buy mogstore items, they just get it for free. They don't buy fantasias, they use plugins to change race for free. It is honestly a ton of money these people cost them.
@@TobinatorTx Those people won't buy store items in the first place and only wants to see their own character prettier in their own screenshots and has no desire to flaunt their prettiness to outsiders, so modding or not, SE loses nothing cuz they have zero incentive to buy from the store in the first place. People who actually wants everyone (emphasize EVERYONE) to see their character looking pretty buy stuffs from the store.
@@YoukoZukiwas gonna say this right here. There are plenty of non mogstation items too look great in. But even modding cant fix your char looking crap in game so people still try to dress nice. Even some of my modding friends drop big bucks on the stupid crap like 20$ outfits or 40$ mounts so the point is kinda moot
@@arknightsboi2050 ah well, there are calculations out there how many millions they potentially lose to modders. Keep in mind most mogstore items are worth multiple months of sub money. So it is easy to get the lost sub money back from cash shop transactions. But i could see this arguement being as moot as the argument that tons of players would quit because they cant mod. That is also very unlikely. Some might quit, sure, but the numbers are always so exaggerated xD edit: oh yes i remember now. The fashionista did a video about square losing tons of money due to modders. Was very informative. Dont remember if she names any numbers tho. But she explains how much of a problem modding poses to the game.
"If everybody followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem", is about what I expected to hear, and what caused the problem in the first place: Square broadcasting UID's into the client as if nobody should read that data since they aren't allowed to. Guess what though? Adding an anti-cheat doesn't fix a thing- all the information that's being gathered by UID's can be done without modifying the client in any way.
They're gonna have to do some kind of anti-cheat. Between things like this and the constant cheating drama in Ultimates, the community is not going to stop, it's just gonna get worse if they continue to do nothing. That's how it is, once the player base knows there are things they can exploit to whatever end, without consequences, they will do it.
Anti cheat programs are a last resort but they can do weekly micro patches and stop all mods from being updated in time for the next patch, killing the mod scene overnight.
@BaithNa They're gonna do it in the easiest way possible for them and that's usually anti-cheat unfortunately. It's getting so out of hand now that it feels inevitable. You hear about cheats and problematic mods more than you hear about the actual content of the game recently.
@@mismismism anticheat wouldnt do anything. 99.9% of the plugins used are client side and done actually interact with the game itself. so anticheat wouldnt work unless it was kernal level which would push WAY too many people away
@N00bie666 Then I don't know what the answer is. Because they are gradually getting pushed into a corner where they will need to handle this but if they divert resources to having people constantly fighting mods/cheats, all the other issues with the game will get worse because Square is Square.
Modding in FF14 becoming out of hand. We are at the point where people can talk freely that they are using mods, and even go out of their way to advertise it in their adventure plate. They just can't understand that it hurting everyone in the community because over the years it became more and more selfish when they feel like there is no consequences for their actions. And in the end we all going to suffer for it when SE will be forced to take actions. And if you think it won't affect you because you are not using mods, let's not forget how much % of the community actually use mods, and how much revenue FF14 will lose when all those people will get banned. And don't go: "Well it's a good thing if FF14 losing players", because from business perspective it's not, less revenue means less income, which means less budget, which also means there won't be enough money to give us expansions and updates.
I hate that people are blaming mod users as a whole. Even the mod users, hell *especially* the mod users dont want their alts revealed. If you just log and raid you dont have much to worry about, or even just msq andys. Everyone else has a lot more at stake
@arknightsboi2050 Mods and plugins are explicitly against TOS, the dev team has reminded this explicitly multiple times in the last 5 years. Either the devs need to enforce the TOS, or revise it. I'd honestly prefer that they enforced it.
@@jakkandjing absolutely agree! Square is already disappointed by the western community, but they never got mad. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and they get really mad that players misuse their trust. The silence is weird, but they probably discuss things and then come up with their plan and i could absolutely see that including measurements against mod users.
@@jakkandjing And they did nothing to stop them. A rule that isnt enforced is not a rule at all. If this was truly enforced from the get go yes go ahead, but the game would be worse off for it. If they blanket ban them now the game truly will be worse off especially as we arent in a good state regardless of mods.
@@TobinatorTx I love how the conclusion is that the western community is the only ones at fault here. When wasnt it JP teams that were the ones caught using third party tools in the past two ultimates? Unless Im misremembering that and it wasnt JP teams, then yeah JP is no better than their western counterparts.
@@arknightsboi2050 oh yeah that is completely true, jp uses that stuff, too, and much worse they get caught! I just remembered that interview where yoshi p was so disappointed about seeing obscene pictures of ff characters on social media. They dont want their game represented in that way. He made that very clear. He already warned about anti cheat before, so i could see it happen... in the official forums especially the japanese side is calling for anti cheat now.
My biggest peeve with mod users isn't because they're breaking TOS. It's because mod users are frequently complacent to their own awareness that they ARE breaking TOS. People often forgetting to uninstall their mods before a patch, people forgetting to remove their mods before they upload pictures/videos on social media, people not understanding what are the boundaries they shouldn't cross with mods and datamining etc. I played other games with mods myself, and I can say that mod enjoyers in the FFXIV community is one of the worst when it comes to learning self-responsibility in mod usage. Yoshi-P knows there's no end to enforcing the rule against mods, because everytime an anticheat work against these mods, people will still eventually find a way to counter the anticheat again. If you'd played any game with DRMs and MMOs with third party anticheats you know this better than anyone else. It's a never-ending tug of war which Yoshi-P does not want to commit resources to deal with. All he asks for is telling people to know their own boundaries and stay in their line. But every now and then there are always people whom crosses the line : GShade drama, Zoom hack, Pitch Perfect, PlayerScope etc. If I was Yoshi-P I'll be presented with couple of choices : 1. Outsource a third party anticheat and let the PC playerbase suffer performance issues(they're well-known for being CPU-instensive) or, 2. Undo crossplay between PC and Playstation userbase, to ensure the Playstation users do not get compromised by PC user's rampant use of third party programs or, 3. Issue legal notices to mod creators for breaking TOS Yoshi-P has no means to ban all third party tools. MMO mouse macros, VPNs are all classified as third party programs. If they have to go after every single third party programs, they will have to do partnerships with various companies in order to legitimize what's allowed and what's not allowed to be used to play FFXIV : 'Oh you're using Logitech G600 I'm sorry you cannot use that mouse to play FFXIV as we have no contacts with their company if their software is compliant with our game's use. Please change to another hardware or we're banning you'. Can you imagine how ridiculous that sounds? Yoshi-P knows this is impossible, that's why he's been asking the community to know their boundaries so that it doesn't have to be enforced. But this game is full of idiots whom constantly pushes the envelope to the point that he has to keep addressing it.
squares fault for sending account ids to the client in their new blacklist system, ant program that can access memory can do this, not just dalamud plugins
Not exactly in this comment section but ive seen People acting like it's too difficult or time-consuming for SE to try and take down some mods, when all it would take is a single dmca from SE to dalamund to irreparably fracture the modding scene.
Imagine using an unofficial third-party tool to log into your game because you can't spend a few seconds typing in your password. FFS just use a txt document and copy and paste if you're so desperate to save time, bet it's even safer there than inside an unofficial launcher that just promises to never do bad things with your data, source: trust me bro. Get real.
@@hanakage2354 Yeah the funny thing is the encryption algorithm they use is literally copy pasted over from a wikipedia article, where that same algorithm is marked as "DO NOT USE. THIS IS NOT SUITABLE." It's hilarious. It's either incompetence or account harvesting, neither is good.
Is there something different for the PC launcher? I'm on PS5 and my password has been saved on it for several months now, if not at least a year or two, or more. It's been so long that I can't even remember when the password save was added. The only thing I have to enter is the authenticator number.
@@bunbox Is there a source for this? I cannot find anything mentioning it online and when I look up XIVLauncher's password encryption, it says that it uses Windows CMS. According to wikipedia, governments and corporations use CMSs. Sorry if I am misunderstanding something. I don't know much about this stuff. If you could give a name of your source so I could read more, that would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Thank you for explaining to us the situation and opinions, it's really helpful! I love your artstyle, it's really cute, will defnitely check out your store.
This goes to show how uninformed the JP players are. Even if you implement anti-cheat and ban Dalamud, PlayerScope exploits a vulnerability SE created when they implemented their new blacklist system. This can be done even without Dalamud itself. SE needs to patch up that vulnerability.
Honestly? I would prefer that. That Playerbase don't even really engage in most of the content really. Controversial take but i would gladly sacrifice mods for consistency in art style among other things.
@@italian504when they got rid of modding, then they could finally start implementing some qol changes! Viera hats, server stability, ui customization. It is not needed right now because people use mods and that leads to lazy devs that don't put in any effort anymore because people just mod everything.
@@TobinatorTx viera hats still aren't happening lol, they have had MULTIPLE YEARS to fix it yet they never have because they're lazy. Modders shouldn't have to do something that should be in the base game by now.
@@velkana why did they not fix it? Because modders fixed it for them. Because people use these mods, there was no reason to fix it. Why are the events so low effort? Why is new glamour so lame? Because there was no need to put in any effort if modders create better glamour. If that is gone they might have to focus on more qol.
Banning all mods outright would effectively make most dedicated people quit on the spot; Raiders rely on certain mods to deal with the dogshit netcode that CBU3 is adamant about never fixing and virtually every RPer uses mods in some capacity to enhance their character's appearance, not to mention utilities to help design their homes more efficiently.
TL/DR: Square's arch conservatism regarding giving their customers control over their experience is the root cause of this, as always. As a long time XI player, I can attest to a SEVEN YEAR WAIT for a [badly implemented, I might add] windowed mode, let along DPS meters or whatevs. If you don't provide the services your customers want, someone else will. Back then it was Windower. As far as the data farming, that's really more a symptom of the root problem [see above]
If CB3 didn't suck at implementing ANYTHING and hadn't caused this major security issue they wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Somebody aught to get fired for such a fuckup.
JP over here acting like they dont use addons and plugins. als the person talking about anticheat, doesnt know how thesee plugins actually work. anticheat would do nothing. While most of the fault absolutely is with the plugin dev, whoever decided character info needs to be client side with this new update needs to be fired.
Interesting enough is people were already tracking down how to use the new blacklist feature in vanilla for much the same thing. If you blacklist one person, it identifies all their alts since it blacklists the whole account. Doesn't take a lot of mogstation digging to find that out. Problematic users are gonna problematic, and CB3 fed them a great tool to use.
The issue with saying "just anticheat" is that you're telling the rest of the gaming audience to go back to WoW. Because WoW doesn't have this exact stalker plugin issue and yet still embraces plugins. It's the product of being in a competitive space against another top MMO that simply will offer a service the other MMO banned outright this time, instead of simply overlooking things like Dalamud launcher. JP servers don't have to deal with high latency problems that have been endemic to NA servers. It's why aoe and spells have slight lag to them. I know a lot of people who would flatout stop doing raid content because they wouldn't have the plugin that helps with reducing latency, especially with how tight hitboxes are nowadays. Again, it is more incentive to simply go to a competitor whilst SE is already in freefall due to DT's less than stellar user retention. With that being said, excellent translation as always!
I don't think that people only play because of modding. The game is perfectly playable without any mods or plugins. If there are people that can't play it without mods then they shouldnt play it all imo.
To be fair, the FFXIV community seems not too mentally well since DT's launch. The WoW community has their nutjobs, but they mainly just keep to themselves whereas the FFXIV community seems to enjoy starting drama on a daily basis over the most pointless things
@ It's not the end all be all but it reflects on what Gabe Newell once said. Abbreviating here but he didn't blame customers for pirating games, but companies for not providing a better service to accommodate to players. It's almost like a "service" that would be negated entirely by anti-cheat. A service that is provided by most western MMOs. Not to mention the fact that in the scenario where anti-cheat is implemented, playerscope has already been ported in private and might be actively worked upon behind the scenes. People don't stop cheating because of an anti-cheat. You could make the argument that had SE made these bans earlier, you wouldn't have a flourishing modding community familiar with FFXIV's intricacies and code. But now? It's too late to put pandora back in its box. I subscribe to the idea of banning certain mods while allowing others like what WoW had to do back in Legion when people were making botting scripts to run the dungeon for them. But that would take a lot of effort and more importantly, money on SE's part.
Anti cheat programs aren't necessary. All they need to do is weekly micro patches and all modders will be unable to update their mods before the next patch. If people leave, let them go. The devs will be more incentivized to implement mod features into the game and the whole game will be better for it.
Healer fix? I guess they will reduce number of attack buttons even further. Like look! Those poor casual players keeps forgetting when to re-apply DoT or when they should use AoE instead of single target! May as well give them a button that do full damage on selected target, reduced damage to nearby enemies, and also cause DoT.
Hire the dalamud devs to build a new client. Monitor and approve a plugin repository, while implimenting an anticheat to detect and ban thirs party clients.
Ohh nice thanks for the translations. Thsyre pretty much correct, but anti cheat wont help, they (SE) have to change their code for the blacklist and not keep whats currently in place.
2:35 #20: If they implement a real mouseover feature into the game (N O T the macro version we have now), I'll be happy af. WoW already implemented a base game version with Dragonflight (again, not macros) after players needed addons for it for so long
I dont have anyone harrassing me in the game. I can see how a gamer an be stalked by this and it wont be hard. Just need to show the game moderators any messages from a black listed player.
The best way I have seen an online game manage cheating and modding is osu!. Just make a new game client that's completely open-source and people can send modifications to and keep the server-code proprietary. Since at at this point FFXIV's code might as well be open and a new client would certainly be welcome to reduce the spaghetti code in half.
Hey at least we can see who owns all the houses in that one ward with all the alts lol. No but seriously this is a privacy issue? No one other than the account owner needs the account number.
For those who think an anti-cheat can fix this issue. I am 99% certain this won't work, something like lets say ACT and playerscope function by reading data sent between your computer and the server and parsing the information into a readable format. These types of actions will not trigger a anti-cheat unless you specifically tailor the anti-cheat to look for it but even then you run the risk many false positives in the process. Imo it seems insane they decided the current interaction of a block list wouldn't be exploited almost immediatly.
They don't need an anti cheat program to fix this. All they need to so is weekly micro patches and all mods will be gone because the modders won't be able to update their mods before the next patcb.
@@BaithNa That still wouldn't stop things like ACT and a mod like player scope could be made to work outside of ffxiv so all you do is create a HUGE workload for next to no benefit and destroy a lot of communities in the process.
And you really think people will be holy angels and use it that way? Its a stalker plugin. Stalkers are gonna use it (or were going to) - though funnily enough Github banned it for breaking ToS. ..yeh. Not even SE's ToS.. they broke GITHUB's ToS. Here's hoping this thing never comes back and that anyone who actually installed the damn thing gets tossed on a watchlist.
@@jakkandjing and all three of us know, nobody will use it for that purpose. People that try to use alts to get around FC bans usually arent the smartest so you'll figure out its them really, REALLY quickly without the need to install a stalker plugin. Here's hoping it never resurfaces.. and if it does, you at least know which people to keep an eye on after kicking them out of your life if they mention having it installed.
You're blacklisting the whole account anyway, there's no need to see if the alt in question belongs to a blacklisted player as the alt would already be blacklisted. I see no reason not to blacklist someone who has earned themselves a fc ban, so there is still no good reason for this stalker tool.
Really funny for JP players to be so “yeah just put anticheat in already!!!” while twice already the world first clears we’re by JP groups that had plugins with functionality that goes WELL PAST a simple buff timer or something. Like… who’s gonna tell ‘em?
I feel a big thing that we really need to shift is that the vast amount of people who use 3rd party tools, don't really understand what it is being used. There is a strong difference between mods, addons and plugins. Most people who use plugins think of them in the same way they think of addons (like in WoW), but these are *not* the same thing. Plugins have open access to anything and everything, there is nothing that can be done, to deny access for a plugin to anything, or to limit capabilities in any way when this is running through a generalised plugin loader like Dalamud. Addons on the other hand are limited by an exposed API, since they do not directly interact with the game executable. The vast amount of what people use plugins for, can be done by addons, without any of the risks that come with plugins if SE implemented an addon API, but the team behind dalamud exploit this lack of understanding in the community to keep themselves defended from controversies like this. If you want an analogy for the difference. Imagine the game as like a bank. An addon is like someone walking up to an ATM and using it to be able to extract and use information in controllable ways. A plugin loader is punching a hole in the wall and putting a dude inside who will pretend to be the bank and do things on your behalf, and a plugin is instructions given to him to do on the inside. No amount of obsfucation or encryption would have helped in this situation, because to be used at some point the data is going to have to be in useable form, at which point a plugin could grab/make use of this. There is no way around this as long as plugins exist, and the idea SE could have done some magic different approach is copium from those scared they'll lose access to plugins they like (again because Dalamud hides behind this instead of doing any basic protection in their own loader to prevent it, or petition for addons) We don't have Addons in XIV, but if we did, the vast amount of these issues would not occur, as the only people using plugins would be those trying to cheat or do stuff like this. Sooner we get an anti-tamper enabled in engine (I mean it already exists for the engine XIV uses) and an addon API the better.
I disagree. There is no reason for certain data to be made available to anyone's game client. A victim adding a stalker to their blacklist should block all of the victim's data from being sent from the game servers to the stalker's game client to block the victim from existing in the stalker's game, in addition to the current implementation of removing the stalker from the victim's game.
@@BOFH_ Tell me you know nothing about development without saying it lol. The point is you have arbitrary code running inside the application itself that means no matter what you do it's exposed. There is no conversation to be had as long as this is the case. Things that get used have to be held in memory and at some point even if you were to communicate IDs in an encrypted format it still has to be converted to usable format. GUIDs and UUIDs are completely standard in development but nothing can be done about protecting them if you have arbitrary code running inside the application.
@ I'm a software dev for a living, don't talk down to me. The game client cannot know what assets to load and render unless the server tells it what to do. Just don't send unnecessary data, and that way a breached client won't know that data exists and cannot let a player know there is data they can extract from the client. 'Don't trust the client' is a very typical stance to have when it comes to server-client architecture, and the FF14 devs failed to use that stance by trusting clients to hide data that a player shouldn't see. As we can see from that plugin's existence, that was a very bad decision. TL;DR - The plugin becomes unusable if SE cuts off the flow of unnecessary data to clients that don't need that data.
@@BOFH_ If you're a software dev for a living, then you should know better, and I am certain you do know better, and so speaking dev to dev, it is for that exact reason I will continue to talk down to you when you balatantly ignore the core point you and I both fully understand when it comes to injected plugins compared to the likes of tools interfacing with an API instead. Want to be treated in good faith? Act in it first instead of attempting to pick one aspect of the point made and present it in a vacuum devoid of it's context. People are expressing their reasonable concerns about an ongoing issue that has been occuring, and it is a bizzare stance to take to lead with attempting to minimise and dismiss those concerns by reframing this into a hyperfocus onto a bizzare take about SE's protocol for communicating to the client (Some degree of this has to occur, this is not unreasonable. You *know* this and as a dev yourself you *certainly* know there is nothing unusual by using GUIDs and UUIDs as part of this.) I will speak to you in good faith, when you choose to do so first with the valid concerns the playerbase is expressing, even if it doesn't fit your preferences. Fair?
Why the heck are you blaming the XIV Launcher devs here? Fact of the matter is, you can do more cool stuff with a plugin API, and its a heck of a lot more effort to make a really good addon sandbox. Volunteers working on XIV Launcher just dont have the time or the budget, especially because someone could just fork the project and remove those sandbox restrictions. So you know, maybe dont shit on people that are improving the game while square sits on their ass not implementing basic features like being able to rename the combat tab or having a ui for dms that doesnt suck incredibly hard.
I really hope they dont add an anticheat, because id very much like to continue playing the game for the next few years, and depending on which one they go with if they do get one, that might no longer be possible as a linux user. Also, i cant live without chat 2 and instant messager, theyre such basic features that should just be in the game by default.
Also, if the gposers get inconvenienced then that’s a lot of free advertisement gone. Course, the way square acts at the best of times, that might sound good to them.
the sad truth is that if they go against mods they will lose a huge chunk of the playerbase that is being kept in the game for modding and gpose, especially because of the slow content schedule
The game will survive and those players will come back as mod features are implemented into the game. We're all better off without modders anyway, mods have infiltrated and ruined too many aspects of this game already.
Plenty of good reasons for this tool to exist. The problem is that ff14 is full of creepy weirdos so it has more of a negative view than a positive one. It's all subjective at the end of the day. All tools are a problem period. Delete one delete all.
sounds like it will become a metagame of who can outplugin each other in a plugin versus plugin cat and mouse now that felony level malicious actors are involved, we arent even playing the game anymore, but rather a competition similar to youtube vs adblockers but with a video game software and plugins
@@whovegas comprehension is not a skill I expect you to have. When I said "no one cares", that carries with it a very specific context about specifically what is cared about. It is not a statement about nobody caring about things in general.
I'm still just flabbergasted someone signed off on sending account information to potential problematic users, as part of of protecting users from said problematic users. Like, bro...
It is a major issue they thought that was a good fix to the blacklist to make it better. My hope is they can revert back to the old system while they work on a new system that won't show account information. It eiter has to be server side (Which I don't think they wanna do simply for data requirements) or potentially only load account info while you are logging in? I don't know...but whatever it is, it shouldn't be something that can be used to detect user info.
Ah, so it's UA-cam copyright claim system!
I find that very creepy. You can "subscribe" to characters! If they change their hairstyle, you get notified, if they change their race, you get notified, if they change their name, you get notified! Literally tells you everything they do at all times!
I'm pretty sure this happens on the Lodestone by default, frankly the default settings for the Lodestone giving you constant updates on everything on any character you've even looked at is just a bit much. While I was a being wee bit hyperbolic, I also feel like maybe I don't need to know when dingle-dongus launches a sub, it just doesn't seem that important.
@moosecat00 some people see their character as an extension of themselves. For those people it is even scarier! Imagine a drone constantly flying over your head, watching every little step you do.
@@TobinatorTx Yeah, but this is a default game feature, you can go private after the fact, but what I was saying is that much of the lodestone features feel wasted on me at least.
LMFAO WAIT it does this?!?!?! YIKES that's terrifying. I had no idea you can literally "subscribe" to player data via this plugin this is crazy. That's like holy hell what the oh my gosh =s
@@ColeEvyx exactly! That was my reaction. That happens when you let players do whatever they want in a game without any kind of safety measures. You should read the official forums. They are calling for anti cheat, the japanese players are calling for boycot until the issue is resolved. It's wild!
I don't think an Anticheat will stop this because the data is coming in client side so they could scrape the data without getting caught pretty easily. SE needs to change their Blacklist system to either be server side or do something else so it doesn't show your account ID. At most they can IP ban, but people can change their IP. They've used trial accounts to show the program off so we don't know their main account.
They don't need to do any of that, just implement weekly micro patches and all mods will disappear overnight. No anti cheat programs or black list changes are necessary.
@BaithNa micro patches don't really effect plugins usually. It's the big patches that do messing with the network and databases for the game when the release new content. Doing that is a lot of extra work for the dev team to do forever.....instead of fixing the underlying problem they created.
@@BaithNa Even if that did work for mods, it won't stop this tracking as mods aren't required to gather this information. They only streamline it. The new blacklist system is just poorly designed from a security standpoint.
We need both. Even when the Account ID problem is fixed you're still going to have all this other info being crowdsourced by these stalking plugins.
From what I understand from other people the data is so plainly accessible in the memory that even if they had implemented an anti-cheat you could still retrieve all of this information so it's ultimately up to SE to do something about it. I don't think this adheres to the spirit of their intent with the blacklist system so it should eventually be resolved.
ya you can get the info with wireshark to just look at your network traffic and pull it out. you dont need a mod to interact with any of the game's memory to learn this info. the in game overly certainly makes it a bit easier to parse stuff, but thats it really.
@@danielbricker7204 Most anticheat block wireshark
They don't need any anti cheat programs, just weekly micro patches and no modders will be able to update their mods in time for the next patch.
Problem solved overnight.
@@BaithNa depends on the mod, depends on how it works. micro patches will litterally need to change lines of code that do stuff and that may make bugs that effect more people. some mods just read network info and patching the game wont change that. and the moment they stop the mods return.
I love these high quality JP interpreter videos. Glad YT's been recommending them to me. You're great at this!
I like how some are like “the foreigners” when jp has been involved in the biggest mod controversies within the past few years several times.
Blame the specific modders plz.
How many times have they caught them cheating in Ultimates?
Most Japanese players are on consoles so the vast majority of them don't use mods and the only reason JP players use mods in the worlds first is because western players use them.
Stay in school, kid.
@ My coy cat boy, nobody is denying every region cheats but JP has been caught on live during the race several times in a row. Everyone uses the excuse “Well they did it first!”
Nobody should be throwing stones like that in the first place because everyone cheats, especially by SE standards. Mods or no. If you’re gonna do mods don’t stream and dumbasses keep streaming. So evidently they do have to cheat because they’re not that smart.
@@Zyart TOP and FRU I know for a fact had memes going around about mods for clears. Videos came out and all.
those statements just scream "remnant of isolationist era xenophobia" and it honestly makes me sad that there are so many people like that in Japan
This is 100% a problem SE created by choosing to look the other direction; it was only a matter of time before malicious modders appeared. Unless SE either goes iron curtain or actually polices each mod (unlikely), this issue is only gonna get worse.
I'm all for modding but this is a borderline game master level tool that absolutely should not be in the hands of the public.
Any tool capable of reading game data (e.g. Cheat Engine) or sniffing network data (e.g. ACT, Wireshark) is able to grab and extract these values. For similar reasons, anti-cheats would be ineffective at resolving this problem. The only practical solution would be to alter the blacklist system to not send raw IDs to the client.
To be fair, XIValexander and some Dalamud plugins simply make the game *playable* for a lot of people. Not having something to fix the ping issues is a death sentence. A full blown anti-cheat will result in many people simply no longer being able to do content.
The degen crowd (which is a pretty large chunk of players at this point) will also leave if anything stops them from being able to use their weird NSFW mods. This right here leaves SE with a major problem. They must choose between losing a significant number of players - and thus sub fees and mogstation purchases - or allowing mods to continue running rampant.
Realistically square loses a lot of money because of the modders. People that mod dont buy mogstore items, they just get it for free. They don't buy fantasias, they use plugins to change race for free. It is honestly a ton of money these people cost them.
@@TobinatorTx If they were gonna do that shit in the first place then that money is entirely hypothetical- bording on nonexistant- in the first place.
@@TobinatorTx Those people won't buy store items in the first place and only wants to see their own character prettier in their own screenshots and has no desire to flaunt their prettiness to outsiders, so modding or not, SE loses nothing cuz they have zero incentive to buy from the store in the first place. People who actually wants everyone (emphasize EVERYONE) to see their character looking pretty buy stuffs from the store.
@@YoukoZukiwas gonna say this right here. There are plenty of non mogstation items too look great in. But even modding cant fix your char looking crap in game so people still try to dress nice. Even some of my modding friends drop big bucks on the stupid crap like 20$ outfits or 40$ mounts so the point is kinda moot
@@arknightsboi2050 ah well, there are calculations out there how many millions they potentially lose to modders. Keep in mind most mogstore items are worth multiple months of sub money. So it is easy to get the lost sub money back from cash shop transactions. But i could see this arguement being as moot as the argument that tons of players would quit because they cant mod. That is also very unlikely. Some might quit, sure, but the numbers are always so exaggerated xD
edit: oh yes i remember now. The fashionista did a video about square losing tons of money due to modders. Was very informative. Dont remember if she names any numbers tho. But she explains how much of a problem modding poses to the game.
"If everybody followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem", is about what I expected to hear, and what caused the problem in the first place: Square broadcasting UID's into the client as if nobody should read that data since they aren't allowed to. Guess what though? Adding an anti-cheat doesn't fix a thing- all the information that's being gathered by UID's can be done without modifying the client in any way.
Interesting video! I actually find it neat to hear the Japanese side of things. Thank you for this insight!
They're gonna have to do some kind of anti-cheat. Between things like this and the constant cheating drama in Ultimates, the community is not going to stop, it's just gonna get worse if they continue to do nothing. That's how it is, once the player base knows there are things they can exploit to whatever end, without consequences, they will do it.
Anti cheat programs are a last resort but they can do weekly micro patches and stop all mods from being updated in time for the next patch, killing the mod scene overnight.
@BaithNa They're gonna do it in the easiest way possible for them and that's usually anti-cheat unfortunately. It's getting so out of hand now that it feels inevitable. You hear about cheats and problematic mods more than you hear about the actual content of the game recently.
@@mismismism anticheat wouldnt do anything. 99.9% of the plugins used are client side and done actually interact with the game itself. so anticheat wouldnt work unless it was kernal level which would push WAY too many people away
@N00bie666 Then I don't know what the answer is. Because they are gradually getting pushed into a corner where they will need to handle this but if they divert resources to having people constantly fighting mods/cheats, all the other issues with the game will get worse because Square is Square.
Modding in FF14 becoming out of hand. We are at the point where people can talk freely that they are using mods, and even go out of their way to advertise it in their adventure plate. They just can't understand that it hurting everyone in the community because over the years it became more and more selfish when they feel like there is no consequences for their actions. And in the end we all going to suffer for it when SE will be forced to take actions.
And if you think it won't affect you because you are not using mods, let's not forget how much % of the community actually use mods, and how much revenue FF14 will lose when all those people will get banned. And don't go: "Well it's a good thing if FF14 losing players", because from business perspective it's not, less revenue means less income, which means less budget, which also means there won't be enough money to give us expansions and updates.
The game will recover. Modders need to go, they've gone too far and have ruined too many aspeof the game.
I hate that people are blaming mod users as a whole. Even the mod users, hell *especially* the mod users dont want their alts revealed. If you just log and raid you dont have much to worry about, or even just msq andys. Everyone else has a lot more at stake
@arknightsboi2050 Mods and plugins are explicitly against TOS, the dev team has reminded this explicitly multiple times in the last 5 years. Either the devs need to enforce the TOS, or revise it. I'd honestly prefer that they enforced it.
@@jakkandjing absolutely agree! Square is already disappointed by the western community, but they never got mad. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and they get really mad that players misuse their trust. The silence is weird, but they probably discuss things and then come up with their plan and i could absolutely see that including measurements against mod users.
@@jakkandjing And they did nothing to stop them. A rule that isnt enforced is not a rule at all. If this was truly enforced from the get go yes go ahead, but the game would be worse off for it. If they blanket ban them now the game truly will be worse off especially as we arent in a good state regardless of mods.
@@TobinatorTx I love how the conclusion is that the western community is the only ones at fault here. When wasnt it JP teams that were the ones caught using third party tools in the past two ultimates? Unless Im misremembering that and it wasnt JP teams, then yeah JP is no better than their western counterparts.
@@arknightsboi2050 oh yeah that is completely true, jp uses that stuff, too, and much worse they get caught! I just remembered that interview where yoshi p was so disappointed about seeing obscene pictures of ff characters on social media. They dont want their game represented in that way. He made that very clear. He already warned about anti cheat before, so i could see it happen... in the official forums especially the japanese side is calling for anti cheat now.
My biggest peeve with mod users isn't because they're breaking TOS. It's because mod users are frequently complacent to their own awareness that they ARE breaking TOS. People often forgetting to uninstall their mods before a patch, people forgetting to remove their mods before they upload pictures/videos on social media, people not understanding what are the boundaries they shouldn't cross with mods and datamining etc. I played other games with mods myself, and I can say that mod enjoyers in the FFXIV community is one of the worst when it comes to learning self-responsibility in mod usage.
Yoshi-P knows there's no end to enforcing the rule against mods, because everytime an anticheat work against these mods, people will still eventually find a way to counter the anticheat again. If you'd played any game with DRMs and MMOs with third party anticheats you know this better than anyone else. It's a never-ending tug of war which Yoshi-P does not want to commit resources to deal with. All he asks for is telling people to know their own boundaries and stay in their line. But every now and then there are always people whom crosses the line : GShade drama, Zoom hack, Pitch Perfect, PlayerScope etc.
If I was Yoshi-P I'll be presented with couple of choices :
1. Outsource a third party anticheat and let the PC playerbase suffer performance issues(they're well-known for being CPU-instensive) or,
2. Undo crossplay between PC and Playstation userbase, to ensure the Playstation users do not get compromised by PC user's rampant use of third party programs or,
3. Issue legal notices to mod creators for breaking TOS
Yoshi-P has no means to ban all third party tools. MMO mouse macros, VPNs are all classified as third party programs. If they have to go after every single third party programs, they will have to do partnerships with various companies in order to legitimize what's allowed and what's not allowed to be used to play FFXIV : 'Oh you're using Logitech G600 I'm sorry you cannot use that mouse to play FFXIV as we have no contacts with their company if their software is compliant with our game's use. Please change to another hardware or we're banning you'. Can you imagine how ridiculous that sounds? Yoshi-P knows this is impossible, that's why he's been asking the community to know their boundaries so that it doesn't have to be enforced. But this game is full of idiots whom constantly pushes the envelope to the point that he has to keep addressing it.
I agree, although as others have stated in these comments, anticheat can do nothing to help with this specific stalking problem.
squares fault for sending account ids to the client in their new blacklist system, ant program that can access memory can do this, not just dalamud plugins
Not exactly in this comment section but ive seen People acting like it's too difficult or time-consuming for SE to try and take down some mods, when all it would take is a single dmca from SE to dalamund to irreparably fracture the modding scene.
Make the official client save passwords and then we'll talk about not using XIV launcher.
Imagine using an unofficial third-party tool to log into your game because you can't spend a few seconds typing in your password. FFS just use a txt document and copy and paste if you're so desperate to save time, bet it's even safer there than inside an unofficial launcher that just promises to never do bad things with your data, source: trust me bro.
Get real.
@@hanakage2354 Yeah the funny thing is the encryption algorithm they use is literally copy pasted over from a wikipedia article, where that same algorithm is marked as "DO NOT USE. THIS IS NOT SUITABLE." It's hilarious. It's either incompetence or account harvesting, neither is good.
Is there something different for the PC launcher? I'm on PS5 and my password has been saved on it for several months now, if not at least a year or two, or more. It's been so long that I can't even remember when the password save was added. The only thing I have to enter is the authenticator number.
Imagine not having a password manager in (current year)
@@bunbox Is there a source for this? I cannot find anything mentioning it online and when I look up XIVLauncher's password encryption, it says that it uses Windows CMS. According to wikipedia, governments and corporations use CMSs. Sorry if I am misunderstanding something. I don't know much about this stuff. If you could give a name of your source so I could read more, that would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Thank you for explaining to us the situation and opinions, it's really helpful!
I love your artstyle, it's really cute, will defnitely check out your store.
Most MMO's run their blacklists on server side for a more secure connection, once again SE coders being lazy or incompetent.
This goes to show how uninformed the JP players are. Even if you implement anti-cheat and ban Dalamud, PlayerScope exploits a vulnerability SE created when they implemented their new blacklist system. This can be done even without Dalamud itself. SE needs to patch up that vulnerability.
they could stop all the mods stuff if they wanted, but i can almost assure you that they would lose a HUGE part of their playerbase.
Honestly? I would prefer that. That Playerbase don't even really engage in most of the content really. Controversial take but i would gladly sacrifice mods for consistency in art style among other things.
@@italian504when they got rid of modding, then they could finally start implementing some qol changes! Viera hats, server stability, ui customization. It is not needed right now because people use mods and that leads to lazy devs that don't put in any effort anymore because people just mod everything.
@@TobinatorTx viera hats still aren't happening lol, they have had MULTIPLE YEARS to fix it yet they never have because they're lazy.
Modders shouldn't have to do something that should be in the base game by now.
yup, and that will cost them like 900,000 of their already almost below 1 million active users
@@velkana why did they not fix it? Because modders fixed it for them. Because people use these mods, there was no reason to fix it. Why are the events so low effort? Why is new glamour so lame? Because there was no need to put in any effort if modders create better glamour. If that is gone they might have to focus on more qol.
Banning all mods outright would effectively make most dedicated people quit on the spot; Raiders rely on certain mods to deal with the dogshit netcode that CBU3 is adamant about never fixing and virtually every RPer uses mods in some capacity to enhance their character's appearance, not to mention utilities to help design their homes more efficiently.
TL/DR: Square's arch conservatism regarding giving their customers control over their experience is the root cause of this, as always. As a long time XI player, I can attest to a SEVEN YEAR WAIT for a [badly implemented, I might add] windowed mode, let along DPS meters or whatevs. If you don't provide the services your customers want, someone else will. Back then it was Windower.
As far as the data farming, that's really more a symptom of the root problem [see above]
If CB3 didn't suck at implementing ANYTHING and hadn't caused this major security issue they wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Somebody aught to get fired for such a fuckup.
JP over here acting like they dont use addons and plugins. als the person talking about anticheat, doesnt know how thesee plugins actually work. anticheat would do nothing.
While most of the fault absolutely is with the plugin dev, whoever decided character info needs to be client side with this new update needs to be fired.
Interesting enough is people were already tracking down how to use the new blacklist feature in vanilla for much the same thing. If you blacklist one person, it identifies all their alts since it blacklists the whole account. Doesn't take a lot of mogstation digging to find that out. Problematic users are gonna problematic, and CB3 fed them a great tool to use.
The issue with saying "just anticheat" is that you're telling the rest of the gaming audience to go back to WoW. Because WoW doesn't have this exact stalker plugin issue and yet still embraces plugins. It's the product of being in a competitive space against another top MMO that simply will offer a service the other MMO banned outright this time, instead of simply overlooking things like Dalamud launcher. JP servers don't have to deal with high latency problems that have been endemic to NA servers. It's why aoe and spells have slight lag to them. I know a lot of people who would flatout stop doing raid content because they wouldn't have the plugin that helps with reducing latency, especially with how tight hitboxes are nowadays. Again, it is more incentive to simply go to a competitor whilst SE is already in freefall due to DT's less than stellar user retention.
With that being said, excellent translation as always!
I don't think that people only play because of modding. The game is perfectly playable without any mods or plugins. If there are people that can't play it without mods then they shouldnt play it all imo.
To be fair, the FFXIV community seems not too mentally well since DT's launch. The WoW community has their nutjobs, but they mainly just keep to themselves whereas the FFXIV community seems to enjoy starting drama on a daily basis over the most pointless things
@ It's not the end all be all but it reflects on what Gabe Newell once said. Abbreviating here but he didn't blame customers for pirating games, but companies for not providing a better service to accommodate to players. It's almost like a "service" that would be negated entirely by anti-cheat. A service that is provided by most western MMOs.
Not to mention the fact that in the scenario where anti-cheat is implemented, playerscope has already been ported in private and might be actively worked upon behind the scenes. People don't stop cheating because of an anti-cheat. You could make the argument that had SE made these bans earlier, you wouldn't have a flourishing modding community familiar with FFXIV's intricacies and code. But now?
It's too late to put pandora back in its box. I subscribe to the idea of banning certain mods while allowing others like what WoW had to do back in Legion when people were making botting scripts to run the dungeon for them. But that would take a lot of effort and more importantly, money on SE's part.
Anti cheat programs aren't necessary. All they need to do is weekly micro patches and all modders will be unable to update their mods before the next patch.
If people leave, let them go. The devs will be more incentivized to implement mod features into the game and the whole game will be better for it.
That pronunciation on serene is max lel
gonna get a healer fix before any action that could negatively impact the modding community is taken
Healer fix? I guess they will reduce number of attack buttons even further. Like look! Those poor casual players keeps forgetting when to re-apply DoT or when they should use AoE instead of single target! May as well give them a button that do full damage on selected target, reduced damage to nearby enemies, and also cause DoT.
WOW is finally going after their modders
Hire the dalamud devs to build a new client.
Monitor and approve a plugin repository, while implimenting an anticheat to detect and ban thirs party clients.
Ohh nice thanks for the translations.
Thsyre pretty much correct, but anti cheat wont help, they (SE) have to change their code for the blacklist and not keep whats currently in place.
2:35 #20: If they implement a real mouseover feature into the game (N O T the macro version we have now), I'll be happy af. WoW already implemented a base game version with Dragonflight (again, not macros) after players needed addons for it for so long
SE just needs to ban all mods. Whoever wants to quit let them quit.
REDnote even dislikes mods go fig
I dont have anyone harrassing me in the game. I can see how a gamer an be stalked by this and it wont be hard. Just need to show the game moderators any messages from a black listed player.
The best way I have seen an online game manage cheating and modding is osu!. Just make a new game client that's completely open-source and people can send modifications to and keep the server-code proprietary. Since at at this point FFXIV's code might as well be open and a new client would certainly be welcome to reduce the spaghetti code in half.
Hey at least we can see who owns all the houses in that one ward with all the alts lol. No but seriously this is a privacy issue? No one other than the account owner needs the account number.
For those who think an anti-cheat can fix this issue. I am 99% certain this won't work, something like lets say ACT and playerscope function by reading data sent between your computer and the server and parsing the information into a readable format. These types of actions will not trigger a anti-cheat unless you specifically tailor the anti-cheat to look for it but even then you run the risk many false positives in the process. Imo it seems insane they decided the current interaction of a block list wouldn't be exploited almost immediatly.
They don't need an anti cheat program to fix this. All they need to so is weekly micro patches and all mods will be gone because the modders won't be able to update their mods before the next patcb.
@@BaithNa That still wouldn't stop things like ACT and a mod like player scope could be made to work outside of ffxiv so all you do is create a HUGE workload for next to no benefit and destroy a lot of communities in the process.
The only channel I get updates and what's happening in FFXIV :3 Thanks Vimimi. Your voice suits well for this. Keep it up. :3
I don't expect any action to be taken. SE is horrendously horrible at addressing cheating or mod usage.
Horrendously horrible?
@BaithNa yes
A good way to use it is that you can check to see if someone trying to join your FC is the alt of someone you already kicked out for causing problems.
And you really think people will be holy angels and use it that way? Its a stalker plugin. Stalkers are gonna use it (or were going to) - though funnily enough Github banned it for breaking ToS.
..yeh. Not even SE's ToS.. they broke GITHUB's ToS. Here's hoping this thing never comes back and that anyone who actually installed the damn thing gets tossed on a watchlist.
We got one non creepy use on board! Can we see a second?
@@jakkandjing and all three of us know, nobody will use it for that purpose.
People that try to use alts to get around FC bans usually arent the smartest so you'll figure out its them really, REALLY quickly without the need to install a stalker plugin.
Here's hoping it never resurfaces.. and if it does, you at least know which people to keep an eye on after kicking them out of your life if they mention having it installed.
@@jakkandjing Confirming if your party member in a duty is a bot or not I guess
You're blacklisting the whole account anyway, there's no need to see if the alt in question belongs to a blacklisted player as the alt would already be blacklisted. I see no reason not to blacklist someone who has earned themselves a fc ban, so there is still no good reason for this stalker tool.
Really funny for JP players to be so “yeah just put anticheat in already!!!” while twice already the world first clears we’re by JP groups that had plugins with functionality that goes WELL PAST a simple buff timer or something. Like… who’s gonna tell ‘em?
Just ban all pc mods, always one goober that takes it too far and ruins it for everyone, too bad.
I feel a big thing that we really need to shift is that the vast amount of people who use 3rd party tools, don't really understand what it is being used.
There is a strong difference between mods, addons and plugins.
Most people who use plugins think of them in the same way they think of addons (like in WoW), but these are *not* the same thing.
Plugins have open access to anything and everything, there is nothing that can be done, to deny access for a plugin to anything, or to limit capabilities in any way when this is running through a generalised plugin loader like Dalamud.
Addons on the other hand are limited by an exposed API, since they do not directly interact with the game executable. The vast amount of what people use plugins for, can be done by addons, without any of the risks that come with plugins if SE implemented an addon API, but the team behind dalamud exploit this lack of understanding in the community to keep themselves defended from controversies like this.
If you want an analogy for the difference.
Imagine the game as like a bank.
An addon is like someone walking up to an ATM and using it to be able to extract and use information in controllable ways.
A plugin loader is punching a hole in the wall and putting a dude inside who will pretend to be the bank and do things on your behalf, and a plugin is instructions given to him to do on the inside.
No amount of obsfucation or encryption would have helped in this situation, because to be used at some point the data is going to have to be in useable form, at which point a plugin could grab/make use of this. There is no way around this as long as plugins exist, and the idea SE could have done some magic different approach is copium from those scared they'll lose access to plugins they like (again because Dalamud hides behind this instead of doing any basic protection in their own loader to prevent it, or petition for addons)
We don't have Addons in XIV, but if we did, the vast amount of these issues would not occur, as the only people using plugins would be those trying to cheat or do stuff like this. Sooner we get an anti-tamper enabled in engine (I mean it already exists for the engine XIV uses) and an addon API the better.
I disagree. There is no reason for certain data to be made available to anyone's game client. A victim adding a stalker to their blacklist should block all of the victim's data from being sent from the game servers to the stalker's game client to block the victim from existing in the stalker's game, in addition to the current implementation of removing the stalker from the victim's game.
@@BOFH_ Tell me you know nothing about development without saying it lol. The point is you have arbitrary code running inside the application itself that means no matter what you do it's exposed. There is no conversation to be had as long as this is the case. Things that get used have to be held in memory and at some point even if you were to communicate IDs in an encrypted format it still has to be converted to usable format. GUIDs and UUIDs are completely standard in development but nothing can be done about protecting them if you have arbitrary code running inside the application.
@ I'm a software dev for a living, don't talk down to me. The game client cannot know what assets to load and render unless the server tells it what to do. Just don't send unnecessary data, and that way a breached client won't know that data exists and cannot let a player know there is data they can extract from the client. 'Don't trust the client' is a very typical stance to have when it comes to server-client architecture, and the FF14 devs failed to use that stance by trusting clients to hide data that a player shouldn't see. As we can see from that plugin's existence, that was a very bad decision.
TL;DR - The plugin becomes unusable if SE cuts off the flow of unnecessary data to clients that don't need that data.
@@BOFH_ If you're a software dev for a living, then you should know better, and I am certain you do know better, and so speaking dev to dev, it is for that exact reason I will continue to talk down to you when you balatantly ignore the core point you and I both fully understand when it comes to injected plugins compared to the likes of tools interfacing with an API instead.
Want to be treated in good faith? Act in it first instead of attempting to pick one aspect of the point made and present it in a vacuum devoid of it's context.
People are expressing their reasonable concerns about an ongoing issue that has been occuring, and it is a bizzare stance to take to lead with attempting to minimise and dismiss those concerns by reframing this into a hyperfocus onto a bizzare take about SE's protocol for communicating to the client (Some degree of this has to occur, this is not unreasonable. You *know* this and as a dev yourself you *certainly* know there is nothing unusual by using GUIDs and UUIDs as part of this.)
I will speak to you in good faith, when you choose to do so first with the valid concerns the playerbase is expressing, even if it doesn't fit your preferences.
Fair?
Why the heck are you blaming the XIV Launcher devs here? Fact of the matter is, you can do more cool stuff with a plugin API, and its a heck of a lot more effort to make a really good addon sandbox. Volunteers working on XIV Launcher just dont have the time or the budget, especially because someone could just fork the project and remove those sandbox restrictions. So you know, maybe dont shit on people that are improving the game while square sits on their ass not implementing basic features like being able to rename the combat tab or having a ui for dms that doesnt suck incredibly hard.
I really hope they dont add an anticheat, because id very much like to continue playing the game for the next few years, and depending on which one they go with if they do get one, that might no longer be possible as a linux user. Also, i cant live without chat 2 and instant messager, theyre such basic features that should just be in the game by default.
Also, if the gposers get inconvenienced then that’s a lot of free advertisement gone.
Course, the way square acts at the best of times, that might sound good to them.
They literally dont want modders posting screenshots. Those people are misrepresenting the real game.
That's free advertising for mods, not the game. They would prefer if those Gposers stopped completely.
the sad truth is that if they go against mods they will lose a huge chunk of the playerbase that is being kept in the game for modding and gpose, especially because of the slow content schedule
The game will survive and those players will come back as mod features are implemented into the game.
We're all better off without modders anyway, mods have infiltrated and ruined too many aspects of this game already.
Plenty of good reasons for this tool to exist. The problem is that ff14 is full of creepy weirdos so it has more of a negative view than a positive one. It's all subjective at the end of the day. All tools are a problem period. Delete one delete all.
sounds like it will become a metagame of who can outplugin each other in a plugin versus plugin cat and mouse now that felony level malicious actors are involved, we arent even playing the game anymore, but rather a competition similar to youtube vs adblockers but with a video game software and plugins
Yeah the community is kinda awfull if you look closely
People want to show they're friendly in game, but it's just a show
Dont really give a fuck whos getting stalked. If they take away my ability to mod outfits, im out.
Congrats you just said the most distasteful thing possible.
@HamsterPants522 and i stand by it. Thank you
@ no one cares
@HamsterPants522 im certain thats true. Thank you for deciding you should respond.
@@whovegas comprehension is not a skill I expect you to have. When I said "no one cares", that carries with it a very specific context about specifically what is cared about. It is not a statement about nobody caring about things in general.