Can a 12 Volt Air Conditioner Cool my entire RV Off-Grid? - Full DIY Install
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Does it work? I was not sure before installing a rugged 12 volt air conditioner in my RV. We put it to the test. Does it cool? How much power does it use? Here's what we found.
00:00 Replacing our RV Air Conditioner to a more efficient 12 Volt A/C
01:25 Why I did NOT choose a Typical Mini Split A/C?
02:35 Designing and Building a better Air Conditioner
17:07 Powering the Air Conditioner with RV Batteries
19:30 Installing the 12 Volt A/C in our Motorhome
21:30 System Check from Cruise N Comfort
22:25 Can You Run an Air Conditioner on Solar?
23:30 How much power does the 12 Volt A/C use?
25:42 Is this a DIY project?
More about our RV Off-Grid Solar Power System
• RV Solar Installation ...
Cruise N Comfort DC-Powered Air Conditioners (Made in USA)
cruisencomfortusa.com
Gear/Parts/Tools (Amazon Store) : rvwithtito.com/gear
Get DISCOUNTS on Popular RV Gear : rvwithtito.com/discounts
More Projects on DIY RV Website : rvwithtito.com
Patreon (Early Ad-Free Video, Behind-the-Scenes Updates) : / rvwithtito
More about this project:
(1) Why a 12 Volt A/C for Off-Grid? The air conditioner is powered directly from batteries thus bypassing the inverter. This saves energy while also allowing you to still power large 120VAC loads when using the A/C.
(2) Why not use a roof-mounted A/C? I wanted one system to cool the entire RV. My OEM A/C was a basement heat pump with ducting originating from that location. Also, there is no adequate 12 volt power available on the roof and my roof vents are surrounded by solar panels.
#rvwithtito #boondocking #madeinusa
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in our videos are our own or from a contributor. Before taking on any project or making a large purchase, we recommend you do your own research and consult a professional for advice. Be responsible and know your limits. We are NOT liable for any damage to your property or injury incurred as a result of following our tips, advice or instructions. We are not professionals or certified technicians. We simply have a desire to share ideas and experiences with others.
Affiliate Disclosure
This video may include links to merchants with affiliate programs who pay us a commission on purchases made or actions taken after clicking the link. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. - Авто та транспорт
Uh...I could never let my wife watch your videos. She thinks I'm a genius and I want to keep it that way. If she saw this video, OMG, I can see the honey-do list now. All kidding aside, what a great job. I don't blame you one bit for showing what you did and being very proud of it.
I get that :) You're not alone.
😂😂😂😂
The interaction with Chris was priceless
Brian you are the mad scientist of RVing lol. You have such cool toys.
Certainly was mad a few times :)
Brian you are quite the fabricator. Definitely not something I would have thought of. Glad that it worked for you. Very informative and you always give me ideas and inspiration. Safe travels.
Thanks! Always willing to try new things. I'm glad you got something from the project. I sure did.
Very interesting setup. Thanks for sharing this. I hope the RV manufactures take a look and start adopting a similar setup in more of the RV's they offer.
I hope so too! There are more and more roof-mounted 12 volt A/Cs hitting the market now.
WOW! Great work Brian. Always love watching the stuff you come up with.
Glad you enjoy it!
was fun running into you today at Overland expo. See you in Quartzsite
Great seeing you again as well. Until next time 😃
Congratulations on your custom AC refit! You are legend! I have truly enjoyed this series. Look forward to any other projects you decide to share. Best...
Thanks a bunch! That was a biggie. Glad it's over 😃
As usual , another great video! Well done Brian. Cheers!
Thanks!
Great job!
Thanks!
Very well done Brian!!!! Good work!!!
Glad you liked it! Thanks.
Your a monster mod mann!!!!!!!! I enjoy and live vicariously live through your videos. Great job, always mod-ing my little oliver camper but your mods are over the top. Thanks so much Tito!
Haha. Thanks! It's never boring around here.
As you said it took many weeks of planning and building not for everybody that’s for sure. Glad it works good for you obviously you enjoy the challenge.
Yup. It was quite an undertaking.
Quite a involved project that turned out great. I would NOT have pert
Careful they might hire you. Nice work and explanation of the system.
I certainly learned a lot on this project. I went in cold not knowing much at all about HVAC.
Good job thank you
Thank you!
I am impressed. You are a talented guy.
Thanks! Learning something new with each project :)
Well that's just amazing. Congratulations on an incredible job done right!
Thank you! Cheers!
Heck of a job, well done thanks for sharing!
Thank you too!
Great project and great video!
Thanks. Glad you're enjoying them.
Great work Tito! 24 or 48 volt would be even more efficient.
True, but I had to stick with 12V.
Thank you for the informative video.
You bet!
Nice job. Great video.
Thanks!
Great Job!!
Thanks.
Impressive results and know you put a lot of thought and adjustments into build
Thanks!
Very amazing solution to a difficult task. Brian, I am again very impressed.
Thanks. Glad you like it!
Awesome Brian, very cool. You are a man of simulator madness as myself. Never stop tinkering brother.😊
Madness is an appropriate word 😃. Never stopping. Thanks for checking in!
you do nice fab work. really nice. you're a really advanced DIY guy...
Thanks! I learn a little more each time :)
Nice Job.....the level of detail is how mechanical inclined you are...Great video..
Thanks 👍I appreciate that.
Love your videos, thanks!
Glad you like them!
Very nice. You always do a good job. I appreciate you sharing.
Thank you very much!
This was a very, very, very impressive pal! Beautiful craftsmanship...as always. And just in case you missed it...I'm impressed!
I think I got it :) :)
Crazy that mid connection you "ducted" into w/ that plastic L piece was previously only just thin Foam!
You are definitely multi talented! Great info , not sure if I could pull it off
It was a difficult job but much of the difficulty was self imposed because of the outcome I was hoping for.
Great video. I wish I had your fabrication skills.
I'm still learning. Gets a little better with each project. I just started welding with this project. Now I'm hooked.
Ballsy I like it. Im HVAC & welder capable. I followed along ok. That’s a diy challenge for sure. Nice job & good results.
Glad you liked it. I definitely learned a lot and am happy with the final result too.
When I first saw you were going to do a replacement of the basement unit I thought great because mine had just died and maybe I’d be able to replicate what you were going to do, but after seeing all the work that you put into it, and not having a place to work on it, I think I’ll just see if I can repair my old ac unit. Thanks for all the great content, looks like you did a great job on it! Not sure if I missed it but I didn’t see if you mentioned the cost 💲
Safe travels and stay cool 😎 ❄️
Great project. I like the way you approach a project. Research, no rushing, assembly or reassembly till it’s right, no overkill, it must keep you up at night.
Thanks! Definitely keeps my wheels spinning :)
Very cool install... pun intended 🙂
Cool indeed :)
The amount of extra work and expense you went to in order to keep using the same ducting is kind of insane, especially when you consider a mini-split would have given you both A/C and heating. You did a great job with what you did.
its a requirement of OCD, which prevents us from just slapping stuff on. If it has a place, thats the place for the device, dammit!
I really enjoyed the videos, your ability to work through the issues and fabricate something that works well. A person without all of the skills could hire theyre weeknesses.
Glad you enjoyed the process. There was certainly some trial and error and starting over that you'll see in videos I made early in the process.
Nicely done !!!! looking at those Cruise AC blowers they look like there designed for smaller area's like found in a boat.
That's why I needed two :)
I truly enjoy your videos and gain many ideas from them, especially this series. I've been referencing this build as I planned my A/C/heat pump upgrade in my little 22' off-grid trailer. Components from Cruise-N-Comfort? Minisplit? Decisions decisions. Then along came the new inverter roof unit from Furrion. I don't have your skillset or toolset, which makes me quite envious, but I can probably manage a single self contained unit.
Glad you enjoyed this project. A roof unit is probably a good straight forward way to go for your trailer as long as you can get power to it.
You never cease to amaze me with your Rv upgrades. Wow!!! Question 1: I’m having a hard time picturing how the compressor fans are mounted to enable cooling to the outside. Is there an opening on the side of your motorhome?
Question 2: Did you measure the decibels when the a/c was on? I’m guessing it would be good since it is a basement rather than roof top although you did say it is under your bedroom.
The air intake is right above that compartment. It has two standard residential air filters. Air is pulled from inside the RV, cooled through the evaporators and blown through the ducts. The condenser is the only thing outside and hangs below the main enclosure. I didn't measure the dB, but it's pretty quiet from the outside. My neighbors would not know it was running. Inside you can hear the blowers from the bedroom because it's underneath that area. You don't hear it much in the rest of the living area like you would a ceiling unit.
Did this last year fully off grid on 24 volts and capture evaporator water to holding tank and run through filters for sinks and shower and just release bathing water to outside but use natural soaps to zero environmental impacts. I can capture depending on humidity around 1 to 2 gallons of free water per day by using this process. My next project is to go with the biracial 16bb panels and work with backside reflective materials and work on more efficient panels which are now at 25%
Funny. I thought of trying to collect the condensation too, but I doubt it will be worthwhile for me. Didn't know they had biracial solar panels :) The bifacial ones however, aren't as effective on RVs though unless you've always got them tilted or significantly raised off the roof. Thanks for the comment.
I think the ac unit is very efficient considering it stays under 1000 watts and delivers 1800 cfm s tbrough the ducts. Any other ac unit would need 2500 watts to 4000 watts to produce the same cooling output as that unit does.
Ya, I typically recommend a mini split for most all cooling and heating situations that's for a smaller sized area.... !!!HOWEVER!!! ..... You're right! Mini split units are mainly for "brick and mortar" homes, not RV's. NOT to say that you cannot use one for an RV, it's just that mini splits are not made to be that rugged and moving around so much. NICE job! That was a LOT of work but you made it right.
Thanks. I appreciate your input. There are lots of folks installing mini-split units on RVs and having good results. Most folks I know who've installed them on larger RVs (motorhomes) have had problems cooling the rig with just one. I could have probably installed multiple smaller CruiseNComfort units on my RV as well, I would not have been able to use the existing duct work though for both.
Not made for it...nope...but they work well for hundreds of thousands all over the country
The cost of that cruise and comfort is like five thousand dollars though. You never mention costs.
You're right. I spent over $7K for the high-end model, plus lots of extra materials I needed. They are not mass produced and was customized for my application. The quality and workmanship was topnotch. Plus being able to work with the owner on a solution and stop in anytime for help is the differentiator.
@@RVwithTito I agree that the system is top notch and that Chris and his business are easy and great to work with but there's a lot of us who can't afford that . I'd certainly install a cruise and comfort if I could afford it. I loved your videos on the project and think you did a great job. Well planned and thought out. That thing will certainly keep your rig cool.
You should see what the prices on central AC for apartments and small homes have gone up to. Seven to nine grand buys you no frills. Little things like a variable speed fand motor rapidly add another grand.
Plus, refrigerants are being changed AGAIN later this year.
@@lyfandeth Yes I know. My folks just replaced their old heat pump for $20K. My industry sources are concerned about the refrigerant issue especially for mobile A/C. Apparently some of the more environmentally friendly ones being mandated don't cool as well and are highly flammable.
Iso-Butane
I'm looking for the Amazon link for the head lamp you are wearing in this video. Thanks for sharing this video.
It's been a great work headlamp. Here you go amzn.to/3QwnJYQ
Probably cools okay when it’s 70 degrees out . That rig needs 30.000 btus for the summer.
We will be doing more testing and tweaking throughout the next few months.
@@RVwithTito A++ on your ingenuity and install.
@@RobertSmith-os2zj Thanks. I appreciate that.
@@RVwithTito How many BTU’s is this system?
@@RVwithTitohow will it go in 40 plus celcius temperature is what we get here in Australia???in summer mainly🤔
You guys are lucky to have all this nice equipment and all the opportunity
Thanks. Yes, we are grateful for what we are able to do to improve this old RV.
$7k with you doing all the labor? Beautiful install, but for anyone living in reality, yeah a 12k 120 volt mini split work great for this type of system for about $600. A mini split will only draw max current (10amps) in extreme conditions 100+ or below 30. Plus you get efficient heat, I didn't catch if he got efficient heat or not.
ANY air conditioner is gonna kick ass in 80 degree weather. Come to south Texas in the summer where all HVAC comes to die...immediately.
The south will eat up the 12v toy
With that being said.. it was a fantastic build/fabrication...but a no no to 12v
Thanks. I'm certainly familiar, but that is not my goal with this setup. In extreme heat and humidity you'll find me in a lake, stream or somewhere much cooler 😃.
Great video and recap of your ac conversion. What refrigerant does the new system use? I have an old SCS basement unit in my Beaver and went through that last fall and knock on wood it’s working great. I’m currently on the Mississippi gulf coast and it’s mid to high 80’s, but very humid. I was looking at RV basement units and nothing came even close to matching the existing ductwork. If I have to replace that unit it will have to be a custom build too.
If you ever need another custom A/C hose Belfair Hose and Rubber can make them for you.
It is very similar to an automotive system and uses standard R134A refrigerant. You're right. Those units are obsolete and there are no replacements. I only know of one shop in Tennessee that will attempt to repair it.
If you don't have a basement ducted a/c could this be used on the roof ducted units? Also I just replaced my double door norcold refrigerator with a 12 volt only norcold fridge and actually gained more cu ft nit having all that tubing on the back for the propane. Not cheap , just over $4000 but replacing it with the original was almost $5000. Great work you do, very professional.
These aren't designed for roof mount. There are lots of 12V roof mounted A/C units available though.
Great job thinking outside the box - very creative and unique design. Clean install too. Man, that looks like a lot of work, congrats! What is the seer rating of this 18,000 btu ducted 12v system? If it only draws 1080 watts (90 amps) to make 18,000 btus of cooling that's an EER of 16.67 which should give it a SEER of over 30. Does it provide heat as well? I'll bet it cost a pretty penny too, not even counting the hundreds of hours of work you put in.
We live in our motorhome FT so don't have a home base with a shop to build things. We went with a 12k EG-4 28.5 Seer-2 mini split heat pump. It is super-efficient, and so quiet we can't even hear it run, though the head unit inside is huge. The install was much simpler though. We don't have the bay space on our MH that you do. We had rooftop A/Cs from the factory, so our floor ducting is for furnace only and roof ducting is A/C only. We can run ours all night providing either heating or cooling for only 15-20% of our 16.3kwh 48v battery. We have a 12v 560ah (7.1kwh) battery for our 12v needs. During the day when it's hot, we must run our soft start equipped front 14.5k Furrion A/C too. We've got 4,400 watts of solar on the roof so can run both A/Cs and charge our batteries at the same time. Take care! We hope to see you on the road one day.
Nice setup. We're running 1740W of solar and 810Ah of lithium. I don't know what the SEER rating is for this unit. No it isn't a heat pump, just cooling. All of the high quality 12V compressors and reversing valves are very expensive compared to their 120VAC counterparts...so I'm told.
Great video series, I have been a subscriber for several years. You have a wonderful way of explaining your thought process. 👏, why did you not go with a 24 or 48 volt system. In most cases the compressor is more efficient and draw less power than 12 volts. I understand that your motorhome is 12 volts. So was just the easy answer? If so, fantastic, you did a wonderful job. Thank you for the series.
Thanks a bunch for being a long term subscriber. I appreciate the feedback. I chose to stay at 12V when I upgraded my electrical system. There were a number of reasons that included simplicity and my choice of batteries. I needed 3 of the Battleborn GC3s and I couldn't make 24V or 48V from that. It's worked out very well. It's easy to jump the starter battery if needed, or power the hydraulic jacks or slides if needed. Also if I wanted to add a DC-to-DC then it would be easy. That's just a few reasons.
@@RVwithTito thank you for taking time to answer my comment. Well done series. Congratulations on completing a very difficult upgrade. Hope you have many enjoyable miles with this system.
I have a travel trailer so this is more complicated , since i dont have duct work. But i still like the idea of the 12V A/C unit. Why not huh ? My over the head unit is so loud it makes me very unhappy. So what is the dBl reading you are getting ? And now that summer is here, please give us an uodate
Really interesting project. We have a 13 year old Coleman basement unit, and someday it will wear out. We just might go with 12 volt. Would like to see a one-year follow-up. How much did this project cost? I learned a lot from your videos when I did my solar/ lithium system.
Keep that Coleman running as long as possible. They are not easily serviceable. I'll certainly report back as I make more tweaks and use it more. The hardware price varies based on what you get. It was over $7K for me. My labor was about $80K :)
@@RVwithTito I very good care of my A/C. I can believe both the cost and the labor. Let us know if you ever have one of those really hot days if the unit can keep up. Keep up the videos.
I went with a mini split when my AC died. Had it installed in a weekend, no welding, no cutting metal, no planning hoses, no charging the system, 24v system, 1600 watts of solar. No complaints so far, and it has heat too. 10.2 kWh LifePo4 batteries, all Victron. To each his own I guess.
Everything but Victron. Way too expensive for what you get and not as reliable as claimed either.
I know lots of folks who also went with the Mini Split. What sized RV do you have? The Class A folks I've talked to with a mini-split ended up needing 2 units.
Hey Brian, do the dc units eat amps like the ac ones? I'm getting ready to start remodeling my house and rv and looking at all my options for heating and cooling. I know I'm getting a soft start/surge protector for my rv, my mobile home and my shed. Tired of the lights flickering in the house when the ac kicks on.
I'm not sure if it eats more or less. The newer units tend to be more efficient though because they are variable speed and can use less energy when maintaining temperature. Old systems are usually on full-blast of off. With an off-grid setup, a DC powered system can be more efficient simply because it doesn't have to get 120V AC power from the inverter which will have some energy loss from the DC to AC conversion. Not sure if that answers your question. I'm not an expert on the subject, but this is my understanding.
@@RVwithTito Thanks
Kinda a skilled DIY. I don’t weld but other than that, it’s doable. Nice job. You could never afford to pay some to build that 😂. Not like you built. 👍🏼
I just started welding for this project :) I certainly opens up more possibilities. Now I'm trying not to become a metal hoarder, but it's difficult. Metal is expensive.
Hi Tito, I am curious how hot your battery temps get to. I can run one of my reg. Dometic 13,500 A/C with soft starts for a long time but during the heat of the day the batteries get to 137 degrees and shuts down the system. I use Lions 1300s. Don
I don't know exactly. It hasn't been a problem even when we ran our old monster heat-pump (no soft start).
@RVwithTito I'm sure it's because I do not have an open space where I have my batteries, plus i'm talking about running it when it's a hundred degrees out.
Easy to beult for your self.
Electro motor on a airco pomp from a car.
Than use the condensor and Evaporator.
Only thing you need is how to control the temperature with the fan speed.
You can use a car climat control systeem
Really its easy to beult if you are a handyman.
Just go to a junk yard for the parts.
QQQ In looking for options for 12v air conditioner for your basement install, did you find any 12v (or 48v) options for people with roof mounted systems?
Oh yes. There are lots of those these days - amzn.to/3wp8JVH
@@RVwithTito Awesome, thanks for the link!
How much would a replqcement basement unit cost? It seems like making it offgrid and low wattage is cool, but what if you just replaced the old unit with a refurbed or new one
I did find this one, but it has no information and reviews are mixed. amzn.to/3QALPSe
Tito, I need you as a neighbor. 😀
My neighbors just hire people to do stuff :)
Did he ever mention where he got the compressors, condensers, evaporators, blowers, ect?
Go checkout CruiseNComfortusa.com
@@RVwithTito Thank you
8 rooftop ac's 4 mini splits or one of these? Why so expensive?
Total price? Maybe I missed it. Thanks.
Around $7K. That high quality Made in USA stuff ain't cheap :)
Not DIY in my opinion, unless you're good at fabrication, visualization, welding, electrical and have a good understanding of air conditioning theory...and have the necessary machinery and know how to use it effectively. You obviously have all those skills and did a really great job!
Two of the skills you mention I had to learn on this project :) Can you guess which two?
@@RVwithTito You did really well on all of the areas. I'm only guessing, but maybe air conditioning theory and welding, as those would be the ones I would be very weak in.
@@jimredding8315 You nailed it 👍
Power in day time no problem .. how about night .. 600 amps battery .. If it draws 360 watts .. make heat pump good for winter ❤ be rich ..
Night mode works fine as long as it's just maintaining temp and not constantly cooling. Heat pump option could be nice in the future. I don't need it though. I guess the 12V reversing valves are super spendy, but it's something they are considering.
What refrigerant did you end up using?
It almost looked like duracool fluid you installed in the system. Please look into the stuff no good mechanic worth his tickets would sell you that stuff. It’s basically butane and heavily flammable. Please upgrade to genuine refrigerant
R134A
How much $? About $5-10k? Did they pay you or give you free gear? Seems like for as much hassle and a lot less money that you could've fit a super efficient mini split in the same space and just adapted it to the duct.
Not sponsored. I paid for it. About $7K for the VES MAXX / IceBox hybrid setup. Here's their product page with pricing stores.12voltairconditioning.com/ves-maxx/
As mentioned, I considered mini-split options but went this route instead.
@@RVwithTito Thanks for the response, it's always hard to judge who has an interest in what in the modern media climate. Cheers.
1000W unit is just about 3500 BTU/h, isn't it. Doesn't sound enough for anything much bigger than a van.
Can't explain it. Just sharing the unit specs. I know the compressors are adjustable, but I haven't had to mess with it.
It can. But why? 48 battery bank. 40amp downconverter to 13.8. Run stuff off 120vAC or 12v chassis, but no 12v battery.
*30amp ASIN B01MYMVGSU. There are higher amperage ones, but what the heck would you need more than LED lights and a water pump?
You can add a 12v LFPo if you want...
That’s a huge achievement Brian I glad it’s working very well and now you can relax and have a great holiday 👍
It has been a relief to finally get it up and running :) I'll be doing more testing and tweaking this summer.
No pictures of the hoses/fittings !
There were a couple of quick shots of those. They are all automotive grade with R134A. The diagram I showed gives you an idea of the fittings and connections. I didn't do much filming during that part of the project. It was cold and very confined. I just needed to get it done to hit the road :)
@@RVwithTito - So in your picture, #6, #8 and #10 refer to hoses sizes, correct ?
Are the fitting O-Ring Flare or Beadlock ?
@@jackpatteeuw9244 You're correct. Those are the hose sizes. They are all beadlock fittings. Since there were two evaporators, I also needed some T fittings which were difficult to find. It all came together well. I did need to have a couple hoses shortened because of my tight space. I took them to a local hydraulic shop. They were able to do it for under $20 and still reused the fitting.
@@RVwithTito "REUSE" the fittings ! Those a crimped on. Never heard of a way to "un-crimp" that type of fitting.
@@jackpatteeuw9244 I was surprised also. What they did was cut the crimped sleeve off, trim the hose and put on a new sleeve. Worked great.
the condenser pointing down and underneeth the rv is going to be a nightmare. its going to get so dirty and require a cleaning every few days.
I stick a hose down there and just rinse it off when I can. So far so good.
THE BASE MODEL IS OVER $5,000!!
Not really sure where you get your information or do your research but on EBay and Amazon they are “backpack” mini split units made specifically for 18 wheeler cabs and campers. They are really full proof “ruggedized” even the home use units are pretty tough and wouldn’t have any foreseen issues on the road. Kind of disappointed in this video because it comes off in a way that you are pushing a specific product whether or not it’s the best and most affordable. This setup you are showcasing is high cost and for the budget you used any size vehicle could be cooled. The amount of work that went into to this installation in so much more that a mini split as well. The backpack mini splits are also 12 volt.
I get what you're saying, but still haven't seen a ducted 12V A/C that meets all of my requirements. This is just me sharing my experiences on this project including what equipment I chose to purchase. I certainly recognize that there are lots of options available. What you choose for your application may likely be different.
You got ripped off big time. These guys have pretty stole our designs and charge a ridiculous amount for a system. I've been installing A/C & Heat on Yachts in 12/24/48 Volt formats since 2005.
All for an average of .12 Cents per BTU on the A/C Side and 12v - 240amp hour Lithiums to run them for $1000. per unit including BMS.
These guys charge 5x what we do and cover our design with their fancy laser cut aluminum advertising.
bla bla bla.