Shrug. I will buy the physical books someday, for the art and to continue my collection. I'm in no hurry. Whoever sells them to me for less than $30 each will get my money. Hell, I only just recently purchased the 4E core books. At thrift prices! I went from playing 2E in the early 2000s to 5E in 2017. No hurry. I will always love D&D despite WotC's BS. But I have been spending more of my money and time exploring other games to mash into my version of D&D.
what they are calling as NEW is a shite, because all it is are the items already released in the other books of their own making, like Tasha. and regurgitated in one book. I like it all being in one book, but don't call it new. Its not. Its old.
@@alaskankare what book was weapon mastery in? What book was the new smite in? What book was warlock's eldritch blast bonuses applicable across cantrips in? What book was the BA wildhshape for all druids in? What book was the BA potion drinking in? You know you can just say "I don't like this company" without making misleading claims? :D
Yeah but how I'm going to show to other people that I have disposable income to waste if I don't preorder these DnD books? She's asking too much of me!
Is the general public aware that literal decades of Fantasy RPG material is just floating around the internet to download for free? You don't even have to pay a soulless conglomerate of corporate stooges to pretend to be an elf.
@@adambester3673 I’d say go for it, me and my group switched to second edition during the ogl crisis and it’s been fantastic. I’m about to run agents of edgewatch for my dad’s lgs.
Yeap That's how I got my Basic/ Expert rules for D&D and original Tomb of Horrors and Keep on the Borderlands and a few more. I'm done with WOTC and their partner companies. In my opinion 3rd edition and on is just a cash grab.
@@truckdrivermm back in 2000, Ryan Dancy and the 3e team had quite a bit if foresight to create the OGL and change the way people thought about RPGs. Whatever happened in the quarter century since, the OGL changed things foe the better.
Preorders also hurt your local stores. Think about it. If your buying directly from Hasbro and not your local store your local store is going to get hit. Keep local stores open, buy from then. Also if you preorder this BS, your going to keep the monitization going. Don't do this you'll hurt the hobby.
Well said! Thankfully, our local store (Midgard Comics, Federal Way, WA), will be taking pre-orders for physical books, so I can support them. Bugger the WOTC VTT.
This. It used to be really taboo for publishers to sell games cheaper themselves than retailers could. I'm surprised that this wasn't brought up in the video. Actually, I'm not surprised. They used the good will from giving brick-and-mortar retailers the books two weeks early for the last few years to creep this kind of undercutting into the hobby. It's in line with some of the undercutting that Magic has been doing too.
@@Axel-zc6xj good point. I suspect overall sales will still be significant enough for local stores to make the effort. But, yeah, that still depends on WOTC and the distribution network giving a rat's bottom about the local stores enough to ever give them the product to be able to sell. (An issue I've seen too many times, too many cities, too many decades.)
@@nahumgardner it's all about profits and fake brand loyalty and short-sighted thinking. With direct-to-consumer being so cheap and easy now, who needs retail partners? Years ago, I was part of a 3e startup and our book was MSRP US$15. IIRC. Our publisher sold it for $5 to retailers, and we got $1.50 per copy. By that model, WOTC could sell it directly for $10, and keep $10, instead of sell for $5 to a local store who cannot afford to sell it for only $10, because their margins are too thin.
If someone falls for that (or digital dice for that matter), that’s on the buyer for having more cents than sense. Only an idiot would be enticed by the virtual rewards.
The preorder rewards SUCK. Their frames are meh, their backgrounds are just illustrations that get covered up by your character sheet info, their digital dice are bland and normal-colored without special crit animations, and finally a useless static digital dragon figure for a VTT no one has played yet (or knows to like/dislike yet).
That digital mini is one step from becoming a physical mini. If it has a 3d model, you can print it. And you are entirely within your rights, if it isn't provided as a model file, to rip the model from the VTT software and print it that way.
It's the same for movies and shows .. don't hate watch. Don't ever hate watch.. you're encouraging them to make more. If you want to see how bad it is .. then just watch content creators who make fun of the stuff so you can vent your frustration instead of watching a show that will only upset and annoy you and encourage them to make another seasons
I did warn my group in January last year. I pointed out the MTG Anniversary Edition. Luckily everyone in my group have more than D&D to play. D&D is one of many RPG we play. ^^
We've seen it coming for years. It's been avoided twice (4th and 5th). I mean 3.5e was just full of monetisation with the splat books. I think due to the average age of players it's less of an issue, because a lot of us are curmudgeonly old gits. As the younger generation comes in, used to this kind of monetisation it might have more effects. That's fine, there's a dozen other really good systems we can move to, away from WotC, we're all old hands at system changes. Might be time to dust off the old Runequest books, or Dungeon Crawl Classics
Forgive me, but I might be missing the issue here. Can someone please explain so I might understand. Is the issue the preorder or is the issue that corporate bad? I'll agree that the money should go to more than corporate and make the creators more money. But I also believe that companies need money to exist and continue providing such content that everyone loves. Without the company, there's not the product, so I'm not sure what the problem is here? Please help and explain!
@@DemonSixRR I think her point is that the current corporate strategy is not healthy. Previously, when we buy something, we're able to make sure the merchandise is good, and then we buy them. Now, it's just a leap of faith. Also, I believe the strategy is to get every DM to buy the most expensive version, which is a lot of money to spend on a product that you don't even know if it's good or not. Our community had a little chat yesterday regarding this thing. Some people think the price is relatively acceptable due to the (supposedly) rich content and inflation, some think the price has gone up by a bit too much, and some think Hasbro is flamed because it's not a company of great reputation, and it's understandable that people feel Hasbro are trying to rip them off again. Personally, I think it's way too expensive, and the preorder is unnecessary. If you compare it to video games, it's a core game that you'd have to spend at least 60 dollars to get into, putting it at a price equivalent to BGIII, COD and some of the most expensive games out there already, and those aiming to DM at 170 dollars entrance fee for early access, which is just too much to begin with, not to mention the expansions that will likely ensue in the following months or year (that's 70 dollar per DLC). I can understand why some people are not happy about this.
I can’t believe Ubisoft claimed we have to get used to not owning our own games. They should get used to not getting any of our money then. Oh I’m sorry, for keeping THEIR money right? Ridiculous….
Well we never really own the game in the first place in thebaspect of video games we own a license to play it, which included the physical copy of said game. So ubisoft's statement is just stating the obvious, now they just want to prevent you from having a physical copy
@@brandonb417 Best bit is it seems so far to be so very much 5E with a few good new ideas to go with some weird (probably bad but till you get to read/play it..), most of which have been in Unearthed Arcana - so you can play 5.5 and not give WoTC money if you like - and I'd not blame you at all.
Then don't. If they still turn out good products for TRPG I'm fine with them making money. None of their announcements so far have indicated they aren't producing good content.
@@junta74 "The AI art, the OGL stuff, the PINKERTONS sent for a accident, pre orders, dlc, and it costing almot 200$, naa thats fine" I did not think someone could love wotc that much they just ignore all that
@@MithrilRoshi I don't. I also don't love most corporations doesn't mean I won't get a Coke. I'm preordering my books from my local comic shop not Hasbro (they usually hook me up with the alternative covers) and I'm not doing anything with their digital. I still think the books are going to be good material.
I actually just played the Pathfinder video games and I loved them. I think they were still 1.0 and based on D&D, but I can't wait when they release a video game using the 2.0 rules.
Darn right. There is a reason that with mods included the OG CRPGs are still the best. I mean companion mods are always iffy but the other stuff like classes and monsters and items are great.
This is Not even a scandal. Just some upset people who what attention in their videos. I personally already preorder my books, and not for the few extras digital content. People who want to preprder will do, people who Dont will not.
Common Sense reminder: 5th Edition, for all it's warts, will continue to exist the day this new edition hits the shelves. And the next day, too. I play in a 3.5 campaign to this day.
And if you REALLY want to keep playing under the 5th edition framework, supported, and give NOT WotC a dime, Tales of the Valiant by Kobold Press is an option.
@@opscontaylor8195 Or just switch to another game. There are so many great TTRPGs out there - the obssession of most US players with D&D is a bit strange to say the least, especially considering the fact that neither 4e or 5e are particularly great. The last good D&D edition was 3.5.
For someone who has been playing D&D since first edition and it was AD&D, who can remember when half the population thought it was witchcraft and the other half worried that playing wouldn't make them cool, seeing how the hobby endured all these years, I'm so disgusted with what it has become.
I remember when dwarf and elf were class. Before AD& D even existed. And sadly, one of the many who left after the ogl Scandal and converted to Pathfinder. decades after
@@goblinballadeer9318 agreed and agreed. Still, it does my nerd heart good every time I hear someone talk about D&D at the grocery store, because now it's so normal 😀
Same. My motivation for leaving was not even as much as the OGL scandal or the monetization. It was executive producer Kyle Brink formally inviting 'guys like me' to leave the hobby. And then waiting for WotC to crawfish, like they had done to some degree with every other blunder. But no, not this statement. Indicating to me that of all the missteps WotC took, the one they cared about most and would not retract or qualify or try to smooth over was that "guys like me can't leave the hobby soon enough." I didn't leave WotC because Hasbro loves money. I left WotC because WotC hates the guys that built the hobby, kept it alive and loved it when nobody else did.
9th gen consoles have failed due to failures of the players experience, Hollywoods flogging visual IP like story doesn’t matter and Srs bzns types preach copyright ownership as extortion rather than a product. Corporate capitalism kills art and joy. AI is the only hype scam they have left. It’s time to beat them at our game. Use your own homebrew rules, develop modded VTTs, write original IP, crowdsource opportunities. Without the GMs & players they only have someone else’s work they are marketing as their own. What’s the point of a new scam with an old idea when there’s plenty of choice in the market? If every DnD fan tried one new franchise the executives would probably be doomed. Perpetual profits are a fantasy of financial ghouls. They have all the money but are creatively bankrupt
And most importantly - stop calling what you play "D&D". WOTC's power in this space comes entirely from the title "Dungeons and Dragons". If no one cared about that name, no one would care about OneD&D and no one would care about WOTC. Break free from the tiny walled garden that is systems based on the name D&D.
3e Player's Handbook (2000) - $30 4e Player's Handbook (2008) - $35 5e Player's Handbook (2014) - $50 Anyway, I got what I wanted from them: a new map of the Flanaess for the "World of Greyhawk," and thankfully that was freely available.
Prices adjusted for inflation: $30 in 2000 = $55 in 2024-USD $35 in 2008 = $51 in 2024-USD $50 in 2014 = $55 in 2024-USD 2024 Player's Handbook Digital + Physical Bundle costs $60 So the real price increased by $5 and includes digital version
Commander Sterling has been warning people for decades, literal decades, that this shit would not stop in the video games industry, that it was only a matter of time before other industries and hobbies started doing this. Do they have your attention now?
They had my attention then, and they still do now. Heck, I work in games, and I tell people not to pre-order. The only ones benefitting from it are the execs at the publisher. For the devs, pre-order bonuses, marketing shots we have to prep early, and especially all that early access is so much extra headache at the worst possible time. When you're trying to get the game ready for release, likely already working overtime, the last thing you need is all that additional work and associated distractions. Screw preorders. If you value the games and people who work on them, buy the game when it ships, preferably after checking out the reviews. Not like Steam or your favorite console storefront are going to run out of digital copies.
We are in the middle of both the Old School Renaissance AND the Indie Press Revolution for TTRPGs. There's no reason to support this company, ever. There are better games out there. Hell, other companies are even doing better Dungeons and Dragons (Basic Fantasy, Old School Essentials, Dungeons Crawl Classics, etc). Forget Ha$bro and WotC and their Pinkerton agents. There's so many other games out there.
We are also in the middle of a huge mainstream alternative RPG moment with games like Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer, Dragonbane and Traveller, (The list goes on and on) selling like beasts.
@@galinor7 Love (and own) all those games too. There's no reason to give WotC/Ha$bro cash at this point. Even if someone likes 5e, there are other 5e games (like the Lord of the Rings one) where you can get the same system without the guilt of supporting a company that uses Pinkerton agents against fans. :)
My mom is 78 and West Virginian, daughter of a coal miner. I brought up what wotc did and the first words out of her were "bleeping Pinkertons? To hell with them then."
that shouldve been the breaking point for everyone imo, if a company can send a physical threat to correct their own mistake then no one should be supporting that company. its very simple.
Proud and Loud boycotter of wotc since Autumn 2007! For 25 years now (I was 7 years late) wotc has aggressively attacked its customer base and, indeed, its own authors, editors and other content-creators, with the belligerent philosophy of (How did the leaked email from 1999 say it?) Quote: "We don't care how many customers we lose as long as we can gain more." (It's actually not precisely a word-for-word quote from that company email that was leaked, but pretty much is 'Exact'.) How many times now has wotc burned down its customer's games in the greed to try to get even more rich? .... To EVERYONE who still pays for wotc product: There are FAR better games, more interesting, more dynamic, more fun -- and even the stuff wotc vomits out that is solid, why support such a company?! Other companies are putting out so much better material AND have FANTASTIC customer service and loyalty to their writers, editors, and fans! Personally, I'm All-In for Paizo's Pathfinder. Or as I call it "Real D&D"! But there's so much great stuff out there! LET WOTC DIE!
Spoiler: The books don't fix any of the old issues, the changes address the superficial complaints of new players which in turn will create more issues.
You're no slouch when it comes to turning a phrase... but "All the grace and dignity of an incontinent flasher at a public park" is one of your all-time best lines. I could see, hear and smell that image in my head. Brava!
Well we can always have another GW scandal after the whole femstodes debacle we know have GW suing a guy for making 3D printable minis for a gamesystem that no longer exists...
@@Erikjust Not just making 3D printable minis for a game system that no longer exists: Making 3d models of things that GW didn't even actually design, for a game that doesn't exist, and for factions they never had models for in the first place, and just giving the files to whoever wanted them to do with as they pleased. In other words: GW is claiming they lost money on something they never created, to a guy that wasn't making money on them.
The answer is simple, stop buying their products. It's a hobby not a necessity and you can play perfectly fine for the rest of your life with what you already have.
Weird. It’s 50$ a book in the US, which is what it’s been for a decade now. The preorder stuff is bizarre , but the books didn’t even get more expensive.
Fr this is one reason i wouldn't get the new stuff, bc for now i can use the old digital ones shared to me and i got the physical set of the 5e books. Why should i now pay to get this again for a fortune...
How is having access to the information on a website a digital copy? Without it being a pdf download it is not a digital copy, it is a digital representation that you will not have access to whenever they decide to increase the price, shut down the site, etc.
Piracy in this case implies that the product is itself worth having. This isn't the only RPG out there, not by a long shot, and it sure as hell isn't the best one either.
@WombatDave Oof, that's savage. And kinda sad, too. Imagine pissing off your fans so much they don't even want to pirate your product. Although for me it's sad because I only just got into the ttrpg hobby a few years ago because I never had any friends who wanted to play back in the 90s and 2000s, and now the company is ruining themselves so bad, nobody wants to play the game anymore. I mean yeah I can just play a different game, but getting all the books is expensive, and I had already spent money on physical books before the first OGL scandal.
Yup thats why I've never spent a dime on any TTRPG materal after the OGL, like sure we won this one, but they did it once, you think we could trust them to not do that again
Weird that they've forgotten (or are simply ignoring the fact) that people don't play dnd to play dnd. We play it to spend time with friends, create cool and fun stories or to just indulge in a little power fantasy. Think i'm gonna have to start asking the games i play in if we should start switching to other TTRPG's at some point with all this craziness happening at dnd.
Some games have appeal for being well-designed and having engaging mechanics. 5e isn't one of those games. I think it is like board games. You have some board games that are legitimately fun to play. And then you have games like Monopoly which everyone knows about and everyone has their own private rules they insist make the game fun when most of the time it does not.
@@look_papriker how can they understand the joy of playing dnd with friends and having a little power fantasy? They want to play with the players (in a different way) and partake in a massive power fantasy XD Jokes aside, I doubt any of the decision makers really understand the joy of dnd. And possibly neither do a good chunk of newer players chasing ideal campaigns as seen on tv/games. They'll monetize it as much as they can, then drop it and hopefully someone new will pick it up and build further
Yeah, the TTRPG world is already split, but this will solidify it. We're going to have people who pre-order D&D on one side, and then people who actually play TTRPGs on the other. And then D&D is going to fade away until Hasbro cuts WotC loose and someone else (like TenCent) will buy the IP.
IMHO, Preorders and Microtransactions both have a place; but that place is also very specific and limited. What it's grown into is objectively horrible...because people are idiots and keep paying for them.
It was pre-ordered for me as a Father's Day gift. I don't think my daughter's a dipshit. But, you go ahead and enjoy playing GURPS or whatever. To each their own.
@@1Bearsfan Regardless of the mental acuity and capacity of your daughter, that does not change the fact that she has contributed to the overall problem; whether it's with D&D, Video games or something else entirely. Regardless of the reason or motivation, the fact remains that by opening her wallet and handing money to WotC, she has told WotC that she is okay with their business model, and is therefore a datapoint that can be used to continue the enshitification of the TTRPG industry.
The moment they release the PDF is the moment the whole thing is available for free. A slightly bigger problem is the fact that it's such garbage nobody would even WANT to pirate it.
WOTC have found an interesting solution to piracy - just drive away all the people who aren't queueing up to kiss the ground they walk on. Get a 0% piracy rate by making your playerbase exclusively people so in love with your company that they'll pay whatever you ask for whatever you make.
I've been playing D&D since 1978, I've played every edition, and since the OGL scandal, I will not be giving WoTC any money, not a penny. I'm hoping that 6e is the Hindenburg for them, I know it a long shot, but I can dream. 12:31
@@normknapp4404but we're not making mega profits where we can have tens of millions of dollars each. That's what the board is thinking every time they do something stupid.
85 for me. Loved going to conventions and playing older versions. OGL killed off any love I have for anything new. There are other games and older versions.
And this? This is why I have my original copies of 2nd edition and have never, ever needed anything else. I have not seen a single new edition that made a DM able to tell a better story. The need for edition after edition is a pure money grab.
Working on a 1st edition module. That's what's getting me back into DMing. My old books. That 5 year campaign. Trying other old systems... Ol' AD&D had it all...
Thank you for encapsulating this for me. I abandoned D&D Beyond when the OGL protest peaked and I haven't looked back. I hope the mainstream will resist this garbage.
@@comyuse9103 Other way around, I think - things go mainstream and creativity dies in the name of fleecing the tourists, and then whoever has the biggest marketing budget starts to decide the course of the most widely known examples of the previously niche hobby, and the subculture disappears as focus group testing and mass market appeal gets blended into it until everything that made it unique and fun in the first place is lost. Then the tourists get tired of it and the oldheads are left to wander the post-apocalyptic ruins, scrabbling for any scraps of past glories to be found in old material that have not been tainted by corporate strip mining. This is why you have to gatekeep your nerdy niche hobby - it's too late for D&D, too late for Star Trek, far too late for Star Wars... Less material and less fans is better if it means only the ones who have a real passion for it are involved.
If Habsro keeps this up, you'll have to change your channel name to "Disappointments & Debacles." But for real, thank you for breaking this down. My tabletop group has really drifted away from D&D towards indie games.
When I was a young nerd, and I went to my local game shop, clutching my saved up allowance to buy the newly released D&D 3.0 books that had just come out, one of the men at the game shop (who had actually DM'd for my older brother's game group when I had first joined them), scoffed at me when I put the books down on the counter and said "Don't buy that crap, don't give Hasbro your money, those f'ers are gonna kill D&D"... and now, a quarter of a century later, that prophecy has come true.
Wait, when I initially went through that...erm... "bonus" list, I thought the dice set were like ACTUAL PHYSICAL sets... why would I pay for differently coloured DIGITAL dice that I see for like 10 seconds every 5 minutes in and every 30 minutes out of combat?
It'd be completely different imo, if the pre-order books came with a physical dragon mini and some 15 sets of actual dice. That's stuff with actual value and if they are of any quality what so ever, those + the books would probably add up to well over 180 dollars in value. The early access thing would still be scummy, but at least they wouldn't be blatantly short-changing us. But nah, they're trying to charge us 180 dollars for 3 books and some pngs for their paid subscription service. They can screw right off with that.
@@webbowser8834 Exactly, that's why I innitially thought it might not be THAT bad. That would be like an actual good thing. Thinking of someone who is interested in DnD, didn't get any stuff yet though, and considers the new rulebooks coming out to be a good time to really start the hobby - then that could be like a nice starter set basically. You get the core books, a cool dragon mini, a set of dice for each of your friends who join you and some more dice sets for the DM. You could even use the rest of the dice as substitute for minis until you get something better for battles. Though as someone who doesn't own any of the books - what was their usual price tag? Are they usually like 60 dollars each? or do they even charge extra for the early access on top?
@@LucRio448 Based on a quick search, it looks like a set of 3 recent RPG books generally goes for 40-50 dollars per physical book, for a total of 120-150 dollars for the set (using the Pathfinder 2e remaster as the baseline here). So yeah, assuming the digital stuff is 100% worthless, WotC is badly overcharging for these books. PDFs are, of course, much cheaper. Typically running at ~20 dollars per book.
@@webbowser8834 No, that's the same price. The physical books are $50 each. The $180 bundle includes both physical AND digital copies of the books. And as a side note, the subscription has a really huge benefit that you might not notice if you're not familiar with it: digital book sharing. In my current group, the DM owns all the books, and all 6 players own 0 books. They can share the books allowing us to access all the info, rules, etc, and make characters, despite not having the books ourselves. I'd say that's worth $5 a month all on it's own. Sure you could share the books around a table in a physical game, but our game is hosted entirely online as we're all spread out and can't do a physical game, so sharing the books that way would require someone to scan and share copies of every book, for instance.
why would i pay for a skin in a FPS game that only the enemy gets to see? same reason. People like pretty things... if you're excited to try the new D&D VTT i'm sure digital goodies are exciting for you. If your not, don't pre-order. just buy from your local game store.
They're charging $30 x 6 ($30 per book). Why they continue to not provide a stout discount for the digital edition if you first buy in paper, or for the paper if you first buy in digital (if you even happen to want both) seems to be the actual topic at hand. I mean if you think of it as, $40 for paper + $20 more for digital that's what this is, except you have to buy all three books in duplicate for $180 to get that "deal."
@@gameblasteralpha The digital books are $30 if bought on their own, which is the standard pricing of most digital books on DriveThru RPG. So if you buy both the physical and the Beyond you get the digital at $20 off, which is much like many of the POD physical + pdf books also o DTRPG. I'm all in support for Hasbro's boycott but we've had pre-orders in the RPG scene for a while, not to mention early supporter bonuses on KS and the likes. If anything it took Hasbro more than I thought it would to get in on that action. The only thing I really see as a problem is the fact that what you get for pre-order is really mid. Painting this as a "New Hasbro's Scandal" is a bit much if not even a bit hypocritical, specially considering the real ones they've been up to.
Not to mention that you can pre-order each book individually, in that bundle, for $60 or just go for either version ($30 for digital, $50 for physical). You're not forced to pre-order the full core bundle as the video insinuates. Again, I'm not in favor of Hasbro, but this video wasn't it.
@@otakuofmine the archives of nethys is the official unofficial free source for all the rules in pathfinder, starfinder, and pathfinder 2e. d20pfsrd also has rules for pathfinder 1e that may be laid out in a way you might like more.
@@delicountercouture It makes me sad though because I grew up on DnD and it's just another cash-grabbing company. I guess what do we expect out of a corporation in the first place? But still it's basically Theseus ship at this point, so i can walk away knowing its no longer for me.
@@zombiehampster1397 Didn’t that get debunked massively when someone looked at the Wikipedia edit history of The Ship of Theseus and came to the conclusion that yes it is still the same “ship” or in this case “page” A better example would be... An EA Vampire chopping up a product to sell one word at a time?
"Fuck WotC" is all I have to say. Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Older D&D Editions, etc are far better choices. The only 5th Edition D&D stuff I buy is Kickstarter ideas like what Kibbles does (and I have helped fund a lot of cool books and ideas) and I buy 3rd stuff like Mage Hand Press and Kobold Press. I pray to every cosmic entity imaginable that this new plan of WotC/Hasbro fails tremendously. I want to see it crash and burn and I hope to God that it doesn't make them money, and that people don't support it. Seeing the absolute dumpster fire of a state D&D is in today saddens the hell out of me.
What angers me the most about the new books is that if just one player wants to make a character using the new PHB, it is "strongly recommended" to then use the new rules for everyone. Basically, it pushes you to buy all the new books just for the one person otherwise it will "grind in a few places". Especially if you're playing online and content share through DNDBeyond
The irony is video game early access normally has glitches and problems. And aren't normally fixed til official release. Which makes this funny for DND to do
"I will not be preordering D&D" Me: "You are paying for the new books?" (No offense meant, imagine that "You are getting paid?"-meme) (OGL soured me on WotC and siccing goons on a youtuber only solidified my decision to stay away.)
The future of Dungeons & Dragons for who? Will they sit at my table here in my home and tell me how I should play? Will they take my wallet and force me to Preorder? Hell, even if they quadruple the price, will they send Pinkertons to my house to stop me from scanning a book and printing it in a high quality hardcover with a local book artisan? You bet they'll fucking not. Did Dungeons & Dragons died when they fucked up royally with 4th edition? Or did people just started playing Pathfinder and started paying money to another company? They tried to revoke the OGL and what did that do instead of at least 6 companies trying to build something better for themselves? We do WotC too much credit. Much more credit than they deserve and much much more credit they can even handle. They can't supply the entire fanbase of TTRPG players in the world. There are trillions of worlds to be told in stories outside their domain. I've been playing TTRPG for 24 years now, I've come and gone from D&D countless times, and like the history of planet earth, countless times doomsayers told us the world would cease to be just around the millenium corner. We're still here, TTRPGs are still here, D&D is still here. Nothing is set on stone and fuck Hasbro. Play however you want, play whatever you like and pirate that fucking thing if you need to.
Preordering is acceptable in one and only one case: To help a startup with limited funds putting their idea and plan of a product that you really, really want into reality. No major business, no AAA videogame publisher and no already established and popular ttrpg publisher has any business to try and convince you to preorder their shit.
Worse, doesn't care. This is 2024 - so very many corporations and intellectual properties are being treated as disposable and guttable by the elite rich. I'm in computers - VMware, Citrix, some others escaping me, but same with D&D - "pump and dump" - maximize profits in the next 1 to 3 years while completely alienating the user base, driving customers away, then dump the carcass. This IS the "long-term strategy."
Cocks comes from Xbox to WotC, eradicates the culture ("we are caretakers on behalf of the players") and fires, pardon, is "forced to lay off due to company changes", anybody who has been there long enough to notice--or care--about the difference. The writing was on the wall 6 years ago when the new strategy of "monetize everything" was made obvious. Now, from the Hasbro chair, he pushes everything forward. He reads the only room that matters just fine--the boardroom. Everybody else is just a mark to be fleeced. Screw preorder, Not One More Dime to WotC or Hasbro. Period. For anything. D&D is dead, accept it and move on to something--ANYTHING--new. (Disclaimer, I was in the 2nd layoff in a handful of months while everything was turned into a "Digital Studio" to create Arena. I wouldn't cross the street to piss on the man if he were on fire.)
Just accept it; D&D is dead. They think they are Sony, selling a video game that people *want* instead of a TTRPG hobby. There are other TTRPGs. Many others. Explore them, and remember what that joy was like.
Nah, DnD isn't dead. It hasn't died since OD&D, AD&D, 2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, 5e. People just stick with the systems they like. Because at the end of the day, they can't take the game away. They're trying to control something in a way that it fundamentally cannot be controlled. Hasbro is treating it like a video game, but it simply... isn't. One person can still share all their books with their friends. It's all we need, and nothing will be able to stop that.
The really sad thing is that *LOADS* of those "other" TTRPGs are ... and have been for decades ... far superior to D&D, yet many players don't realize this because they refuse to even *TRY* anything else. 😠
@@morganpetros9635 The huge advantage for DnD is that you find players quite easily and Dungeon Masters with a little effort. And without the need to convince anyone of your new fancy system. Many players are reluctant to learn a new system. Rather playing what they already know. And there are often so many character ideas and power fantasies stuck in player heads that they can`t really let go of DnD. But I would agree that DnD is among the most inferior RPG systems if you are not out for mindless dungeon crawling. I often refer to DnD as an overhyped hero quest for that reason.
Fully agree. If Hasbro wants to run their business the way that's most financially advantageous to them, I will simply acquire their goods in a way that is most financially advantageous to me. 🤷♀️
I see only truth in the speech, clear and straightforward truths... for us Brazilians it was always hard (understood with this statement: the major PIRACY that had happen in the history of man kind searchin' for a way to spend some good time playin' the hobby of preference) since the prices on D&D books were set in dolar pricefication, and never was a true effort from Hasbro to bring to "portuguese speakers" their product, it was an effort of our enterpeneurs to translate the books that those enterprises could had find trough the opportunity of stabelishing contracts with WoC... and now we face of the uninterest of Hasbro in gain money with the decision of remove support for translation to portuguese of Brasil, know firsthand and as consequence that we will in a "mass attack of piracy" "reach for" all the pdf's and content and translate ourselves all the stuff, just for the fun of playing D&D.
Ok what! You need a DnD subscription to access the early access stuff. Normally when it comes to these preorder offers it would be, "preorder our product and get say 6 months free of our subscription service as the bonus for preordering". Not preorder and now you need to buy our subscription service to access it.
For those that say, "Preorders have existed for RPGs on kickstarters for a long time, this isn't new". That's very different. I've done it with mine, but that's because it's usually smaller developers raising the money needed to make the product in the first place. Did I do several tiers on my early access for my books? Sure, but I needed that to develop the final product, AND I don't offer for any BS side stuff that you're not gonna benefit from, and despite being a small time developers, many of us release books of the same size (or larger) at a much smaller price. WotC had the money to do this from day one, pre-ordering isn't required for the launch, and many of their 'extras' are really there just to push you towards other money generators. They've taken a system that could have helped small developers (like myself) fund their process, and went full EA/Ubisoft. What we've done on kickstarter is very different from what WotC is doing here.
@GeneralHiro if you only see Kickstarter as nothing more than a pre-order platform. But his description (and most kickstarters I've backed) are more about putting up your money for the development (turning your potential customers into investors)
@@fccphoto Well as the "ROI" in this case is "actually getting the product you paid for"... I definitely wouldn't consider myself an investor for backing a Kickstarter... I can get my jollies off thinking I had played some part in making something happen and let myself live in a fantasy that I am now connected to something bigger than myself, but other than that, it's just a pre-order mate. I've seen "sequels" on kick starter... they aren't off limits for established companies... I fail to see the difference. - A Product is promised to arrive at some point in the future, you pay for it before receiving it and wait for said time to arrive, product is then shipped to you. Call it what you want the definition is the same...
It's almost worse than that actually cause you can back a kickstarter and not even get anything. it's like Gambling. at least with a pre-order i know what i am getting and will for sure get it.
@@GeneralHiro That's more of you just not doing good research with where you're putting money and just getting scammed lol. Plenty of scams exist on kickstarter, just like how hasbro and plenty of company scams their audience. Just because you got complacent in their greedy ways doesn't make make you morally right, or right at all for that matter. You're basically saying you're not getting scammed because you still got the product in the end. Try buying a carton of eggs for 100 times the market price and come back to me on that one.
9:49 "we're gonna have to wait weeks after everybody else to play" - it's two weeks and if you are friends with someone who has bought them, you can get access to them from that friend.
You had me until the Paizo reference. Paizo's CEO, Lisa Stevens, was once VP at WotC, and she has gone on record condeming WotC for what is going on right now, she is fueled by spite. Shed burn the company to the ground before following in Wizard's footsteps with this crap. A prime example of this is Archives of Nethys. All the rules for Paizo's games are there.. just like free... accessible to everyone. It doesnt have any fluff or lore, but it's there... Hasbro Wizards wants people to BUY the game... Paizo wants people to PLAY the game.
I am so glad I quit collecting D&D books. This is ridiculous! I already quit buying the Minis because they over priced them out of My budget. When a Brick was $90 - 100 it was fine now they are close to or over $200 ! Nope! This game isn't worth it with all the political overtones and crap. Nah..
Political overtones? My brother in christ, it's based on the world views of a catholic in the 70s who grew up on the stories told by an early-20th century war veteran who made the dwarves into caricatures of Jews and the orcs into racist stereotypes of black people. D&D has _always_ been political.
"Damn it! Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast has done it again! Engaging in deplorable business practices. Why won't they change?" "I know, right? By the way, where are you going?" "Oh, I'm going to buy the new Player's Handbook."
@@jaykarimi7123 Plenty of other GAMES to get that don't cost $. It's time to treat them like THEY'RE UNNECESSARY, DON'T EXIST and look at MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
And that's the problem. People are too stuck in their ways to branch out to one of the THOUSANDS of systems that blow DnD out of the water. People just want their generic, watered down, bland slop that wotc feeds them
The fact is pre-orders were always a problem, but we as consumer base never stopped and said "You know what? No. This is not okay", because they always added some sort of incentive with it. Usually some sort of collectable. It was eventually going to leak into the table top. WotC was just the first one to do it, but if it wasn't them, it was going to be someone else. And yes to the Pathfinder players, it is very likely that if it wasn't WotC first, it was most likely going to be them. And if it wasn't ether of them, it was going to be someone else. We did this to ourselves by allowing it in the video game market for so long.
Honestly "Pre-Order Bonuses" are one of the best ways to monetize imo. No requirement to purchase any special pack but there if you want it. As someone who lives in Canada and has been Paying $59.95/Book for years... it's a nice bonus to get the Digital version for free with a pre-order. Also as someone who lives in Canada, I am mildly annoyed the pre-order bundle is only available for sale on D&D Beyond which only ships to USA... If you're going to offer pre-order bonuses they shouldn't be region locked... WOTC has a massive supply chain I'm sure they could have figured this out. As for: "Pre-ordering books we haven't seen yet"... well that's the thing the pre-order will still be available in a month when the other book reveals will be happening. Plus you can always cancel a pre-order if you find out the book isn't what you were hoping for. Overall everything I'm seeing from all the reveal videos: "Looks good." Genuinely excited to try out the 2024 edition. Looks like it tackles a number of pain point while not requiring me to learn an entirely new system. OGL 2.0 Controversy was a total debacle but love it or hate it: My players all know 5e 🤷♂ Plus we have nearly every 5e module and expansion, all of which are compatible with 2024 edition... so it'll be hard to turn my back on the X-Hundreds of dollars we spent because WotC made a poor choice months ago. End of the Day OLG debacle was a nightmare but also blown out of proportion. Every lawyer pointed out the fact that WotC was basically unable to repeal the original OGL due to the language in it (the language specifically put in it by the original authors to prevent the exact type of abuse Hasbro was trying to implement) Worst case scenario: everything published after OGL 2.0 was covered by it but that would have just left the entire existing 5e homebrew scene as is, untouchable. I believe this is why WotC backed down, At the end of the day they didn't have a leg to stand on. The fan response helped but the nearly impossible legal nature of the entire thing made it a poor choice to even attempt from the outset. Anyone remember the days you could write any old POS down on a napkin and call it homebrew and everyone loved it. Everything is so over judged these days... Everything is "THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE EVER!" this over hype culture has me so burnt out... like can't we be fkin happy for 12 seconds about the fact we just have the time and mental space available to even consider playing these games... but rather than be happy that we can actually play a game, we get upset cause "it'S NoT ThE wRiGhT gAmE1!1!" Like fk anyone remember having fun playing Tag as a kid? TAG! No Equipment Required, The rule are Tag you're it and you just GO! that's all we needed at one time. Now we're gonna have a melt down cause WoTC offers pre-orders... gosh if this is how you feel about pre-orders Kick starter must really get your goat :O
11:36 Imagine having sessions often enough and consistently enough that 2 weeks without a game is a significant schedule alteration. Good for those who can, but even my biweekly games often have dry months from scheduling issues, and meanwhile all the games I've been DMing have been on hold for the past 10 months due to my work schedule.
The best D&D was 2nd addition, instead of creating new content & new worlds, they just repackage, tweek slightly & sale it all again. The game deserves to die if this is what it's going to be.
Damn right! Its disgusting what happened with gaming industry. Standard edition, full edition, game of the year edition, gold edition, elite edition, hero edition, supreme edition, diamond edition… list goes on. And then, there is subscription. Hell no!
($240 for three books) $80 a book is insanely unobtainable to everyone as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully, it's physical and not digital. Almost $100 Digital purchases are a massive obvious problem. That problem is obviously "What happens when the digital files become corrupt?" Or if those files are attached to a website to view "What happens when that website has a conniption fit and deletes your digital content right out from under your nose and any proof of purchase like some people have issues with on console games (Nintendo?) What do you do then?" Just stick to physical books if the price was already an ungodly $60 a book in stores. Now we're bumping up to $80+. This is disgusting. I buy all mine for $25-30 off ebay.
You can get the PHB for $30 on Roll20, and an Expanded Monster manual with 470 monsters. Your best option, works for me since I run most my games through roll20, saves the hassle being able to drag stuff into character sheets, dragging monsters onto the screen
Yeah, it's for 6 books: 3 physical copies, and 3 digital copies. If you just want the 3 digital copies for instance, it's only $90 instead of $180. If you only want a single book, like say the digital players handbook, it's $30.
Since Tasha's, WOTC's books have all dropped to 50%+ off within a few months of release because nobody wants them enough to pay more than that, and WOTC are seeing that and thinking "We can raise the price here".
WotC is awful. Unfortunately, my experience with the video game industry leads me to believe there is a 0% chance people will say "no" to this and put a stop to it. I remember when the spectral tiger mount came out in WoW and some of us were on the forums saying "This is going to lead to them selling gold and power and trivializing the reason for playing the game." And everybody said "no no no, doom and gloom, it's just a trading card that has an extra reward, so what?" The big problem for pushing back against the excesses of corporate ghouls is that most people can't or refuse to tell that the water in the pot is getting hotter and will keep defending Corporation-sempai to the bitter end. People develop a parasocial relationship with a product and therefore its corporate owner. Which is just nuts.
I stopped playing after the 3rd edition. I used what ever rules I saw fit for my friends so we had a good time. Use the old books. Photo copy them for friends. Draw your own maps. Make your own . The price alone is nuts. Pen and paper is the best.
I agree entirely, preordering will only cause more of the core developers to be fired. Don't give these clowns money, they will turn your beloved shared space into a circus.
When you put Hasbro and Wizards together, you get Hazards - y'know, those things you need to avoid in order to keep yourself safe? This whole situation is the result of monetising FOMO, and it's become so normalised that we don't even think twice about it - we see "Pre-order now!!" and our brains immediately go to "I gotta get this ASAP or else I'll have to wait longer to get it!" Frankly, we allowed ourselves to be dragged into this situation by actually buying into this nonsense, and this is the end result. Only one or two people actually need to buy these books anyway, then they can share it online for free so nobody has to give Hazards any more money - not that you'd actually want to, given how they've turned D&D into mush now, especially when there's plenty of other *_better_* TTRPGs out there to play instead.
I don’t know about the new games like daggerheart but I love pathfinder. I play PF2E with my group and starfinder 2e is about to come out, it’s supposed to be cross compatible with PF2E.
@@nunyamyob9555 yeah it does have a lot of crunch to it, starfinder 2e is coming out soon too so that’ll just add it it. It’s not your standard fantasy rpg but I feel like I should shout it out cause I love it, try monster of the week. Very narrative focused rules. Its about a team of hunters get together to investigate supernatural activities, research the monster, figure out it’s weakness, and slay it.
I suggest PF2e. Its a ton of fun and a lot easier to DM for than 5e. A lot of people think it's more rules heavy than 5e. It isn't. 5e pretends to be rules lite because it makes the DM come up with the rules for a lot of situations, so the rules are still there, just in the DMs head and players still have to know them. PF2e has the DMs back a lot more.
At least GW sells you plastic, and there is some real scarcity around not being able to deliver enough copies at launch. Yes, there are additional shenanigans GW pulls on top of that, but there's at least some sort of a foundation. The DnD source books preorder comes with a _digital_ dragon. I almost get the digital preorder exclusives with digital-only games - you're only getting a download for the whole thing. But when you're ordering printed books for a game that, yes, being played more and more online, is still a tabletop game at its core, and your preorder bonus is _digital_ on a $180 price tag? I'd almost forgive this bundle if it came with physical tabletop goodies. It's still greedy, but you're at least trying. As is? I don't think people marketing it know what they're selling or to whom.
A pre-order goes without saying, whenever hype far outpaces actual quality, doing pre-orders is an extremely good move - sell all those products to hyped people before any reviews come out. The bigger problem for me is that WOTC hasn't persuaded me that One D&D is worth buying when it's 67% off in two years, let alone worth buying before release. Actually, since the books are $80 now, it'd need to be a 75% discount before I said "Eh, maybe I'll get this". I can't imagine why anyone would pay $240 for something that is 90% words they *already own*.
Why the hell would I pay an outrageous $180 just for a more woke version of 5e? I'd do better to just keep using the versions I already have, making any necessary fixes with house rules. If I actually wanted 6e, I'd wait a few months for it to arrive at Ollie's.
@bogumilszymanski7716 You're welcome! Full movie is on UA-cam for free! And yes before you ask... that's the actual film quality, there's NO higher res than that.
Thanks to Basic Fantasy RPG, Old School Essentials and Knave - I am GONE for good, farewell WOTC. Also, the way they treated the D&D creators in their new 50th anniversary book is beyond disgusting. Edited: for typos
All great systems. I am really liking Index Card RPG for its simplicity and ability to run many kinds of world settings, fantasy, sci Fi, weird West, superhero and more.
I still don’t understand why people care about DnD. There’s enough ttRPG players that they could create their own system on CC-BY-SA license and all those licensing and pricing issues would go away.
Cairn TTRPG is like this! People also post and sell "Hacks" for it for different flavors like cyberpunk or Norse themed. There's also a ton of extra content and systems for things like spells and base building
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The movie is Fatal Deviation, an indie Irish made martial arts film...
It is, the BEST kind of garbage!
Shrug. I will buy the physical books someday, for the art and to continue my collection. I'm in no hurry. Whoever sells them to me for less than $30 each will get my money. Hell, I only just recently purchased the 4E core books. At thrift prices! I went from playing 2E in the early 2000s to 5E in 2017. No hurry. I will always love D&D despite WotC's BS. But I have been spending more of my money and time exploring other games to mash into my version of D&D.
what they are calling as NEW is a shite, because all it is are the items already released in the other books of their own making, like Tasha. and regurgitated in one book. I like it all being in one book, but don't call it new. Its not. Its old.
@@alaskankare what book was weapon mastery in? What book was the new smite in? What book was warlock's eldritch blast bonuses applicable across cantrips in? What book was the BA wildhshape for all druids in? What book was the BA potion drinking in?
You know you can just say "I don't like this company" without making misleading claims? :D
Surfshark has been confirmed to save your data and sell it to companies which totally defeats the purpose of a VPN.
Fortunately I am not pre-ordering for an entirely different reason: I have been “done” with WotC since the OGL scandal.
2
I've been done with WOTC since they purchased Dnd from TSR. 😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah but how I'm going to show to other people that I have disposable income to waste if I don't preorder these DnD books? She's asking too much of me!
An intelligent man
I've been done with them since before TASHA'S. But even before then, I was just looking for a new and better game. PF2E was my exit ramp.
Is the general public aware that literal decades of Fantasy RPG material is just floating around the internet to download for free? You don't even have to pay a soulless conglomerate of corporate stooges to pretend to be an elf.
honestly yeah for me I think its finally time to learn pathfinder.
@@adambester3673 It is a fun system. And all available for free on Nethis.
@@adambester3673 I’d say go for it, me and my group switched to second edition during the ogl crisis and it’s been fantastic. I’m about to run agents of edgewatch for my dad’s lgs.
Yeap That's how I got my Basic/ Expert rules for D&D and original Tomb of Horrors and Keep on the Borderlands and a few more.
I'm done with WOTC and their partner companies.
In my opinion 3rd edition and on is just a cash grab.
@@truckdrivermm back in 2000, Ryan Dancy and the 3e team had quite a bit if foresight to create the OGL and change the way people thought about RPGs. Whatever happened in the quarter century since, the OGL changed things foe the better.
Preorders also hurt your local stores. Think about it. If your buying directly from Hasbro and not your local store your local store is going to get hit. Keep local stores open, buy from then. Also if you preorder this BS, your going to keep the monitization going. Don't do this you'll hurt the hobby.
Well said! Thankfully, our local store (Midgard Comics, Federal Way, WA), will be taking pre-orders for physical books, so I can support them. Bugger the WOTC VTT.
This. It used to be really taboo for publishers to sell games cheaper themselves than retailers could. I'm surprised that this wasn't brought up in the video. Actually, I'm not surprised. They used the good will from giving brick-and-mortar retailers the books two weeks early for the last few years to creep this kind of undercutting into the hobby. It's in line with some of the undercutting that Magic has been doing too.
I'm still gonna wait until the new PHB goes on sale at a local store. That's also assuming locals stores want to pick it up with how things are going.
@@Axel-zc6xj good point. I suspect overall sales will still be significant enough for local stores to make the effort. But, yeah, that still depends on WOTC and the distribution network giving a rat's bottom about the local stores enough to ever give them the product to be able to sell. (An issue I've seen too many times, too many cities, too many decades.)
@@nahumgardner it's all about profits and fake brand loyalty and short-sighted thinking. With direct-to-consumer being so cheap and easy now, who needs retail partners?
Years ago, I was part of a 3e startup and our book was MSRP US$15. IIRC. Our publisher sold it for $5 to retailers, and we got $1.50 per copy. By that model, WOTC could sell it directly for $10, and keep $10, instead of sell for $5 to a local store who cannot afford to sell it for only $10, because their margins are too thin.
For only $50 extra, you too can get a $50 Golden Dragon... DIGITAL.. mini.
If someone falls for that (or digital dice for that matter), that’s on the buyer for having more cents than sense. Only an idiot would be enticed by the virtual rewards.
But it only works if you buy the Dlc with it that is 70 extra dollars.
The preorder rewards SUCK. Their frames are meh, their backgrounds are just illustrations that get covered up by your character sheet info, their digital dice are bland and normal-colored without special crit animations, and finally a useless static digital dragon figure for a VTT no one has played yet (or knows to like/dislike yet).
That digital mini is one step from becoming a physical mini. If it has a 3d model, you can print it. And you are entirely within your rights, if it isn't provided as a model file, to rip the model from the VTT software and print it that way.
DIGITAL????
WHAT THE FUCK
Remember no matter how much you hate it. No matter how much you complain about it. If you buy it. Then in they eyes of Hasbro, you loved it.
Not me. DND died after 3.5
It's the same for movies and shows .. don't hate watch. Don't ever hate watch.. you're encouraging them to make more. If you want to see how bad it is .. then just watch content creators who make fun of the stuff so you can vent your frustration instead of watching a show that will only upset and annoy you and encourage them to make another seasons
Buddy I have never paid for a sourcebook lmao it is extraordinarily easy to find pdfs
We Magic players tried to warn our dnd playing brethren that WOTC was planning on "monetizing" D&D. This is what that looks like. 😢
I used to save my lunch money to get a deck. After I saved up for one tenth of a decent deck, guess what, it's almost going to drop out of standard.
I did warn my group in January last year. I pointed out the MTG Anniversary Edition. Luckily everyone in my group have more than D&D to play. D&D is one of many RPG we play. ^^
We've seen it coming for years. It's been avoided twice (4th and 5th). I mean 3.5e was just full of monetisation with the splat books. I think due to the average age of players it's less of an issue, because a lot of us are curmudgeonly old gits. As the younger generation comes in, used to this kind of monetisation it might have more effects. That's fine, there's a dozen other really good systems we can move to, away from WotC, we're all old hands at system changes. Might be time to dust off the old Runequest books, or Dungeon Crawl Classics
Forgive me, but I might be missing the issue here. Can someone please explain so I might understand.
Is the issue the preorder or is the issue that corporate bad?
I'll agree that the money should go to more than corporate and make the creators more money. But I also believe that companies need money to exist and continue providing such content that everyone loves. Without the company, there's not the product, so I'm not sure what the problem is here? Please help and explain!
@@DemonSixRR I think her point is that the current corporate strategy is not healthy. Previously, when we buy something, we're able to make sure the merchandise is good, and then we buy them. Now, it's just a leap of faith. Also, I believe the strategy is to get every DM to buy the most expensive version, which is a lot of money to spend on a product that you don't even know if it's good or not.
Our community had a little chat yesterday regarding this thing. Some people think the price is relatively acceptable due to the (supposedly) rich content and inflation, some think the price has gone up by a bit too much, and some think Hasbro is flamed because it's not a company of great reputation, and it's understandable that people feel Hasbro are trying to rip them off again.
Personally, I think it's way too expensive, and the preorder is unnecessary. If you compare it to video games, it's a core game that you'd have to spend at least 60 dollars to get into, putting it at a price equivalent to BGIII, COD and some of the most expensive games out there already, and those aiming to DM at 170 dollars entrance fee for early access, which is just too much to begin with, not to mention the expansions that will likely ensue in the following months or year (that's 70 dollar per DLC). I can understand why some people are not happy about this.
I can’t believe Ubisoft claimed we have to get used to not owning our own games. They should get used to not getting any of our money then. Oh I’m sorry, for keeping THEIR money right? Ridiculous….
Well we never really own the game in the first place in thebaspect of video games we own a license to play it, which included the physical copy of said game. So ubisoft's statement is just stating the obvious, now they just want to prevent you from having a physical copy
This is why I won't buy d&d beyond content. They can't make me pay again for a book that sits on my shelf. I doubt I'll play 5.5.
After Ubisoft removed my never used copy of "The Crew", that was the last thing digital thing I will ever buy from Ubisoft.
@@brandonb417 Best bit is it seems so far to be so very much 5E with a few good new ideas to go with some weird (probably bad but till you get to read/play it..), most of which have been in Unearthed Arcana - so you can play 5.5 and not give WoTC money if you like - and I'd not blame you at all.
watch?v=2UeyhhNFjJU
i think i'll just drop that there
Hasbro wants you to pay them, so they can kill off table top role playing and turning an actual hobby, into a video game.
Don't fall for this.
Exactly. That's what BG3 was about, too.
Then don't. If they still turn out good products for TRPG I'm fine with them making money. None of their announcements so far have indicated they aren't producing good content.
@@JustSteve85 Nah it wasn't. Larian had to fight to get the license.
@@junta74 "The AI art, the OGL stuff, the PINKERTONS sent for a accident, pre orders, dlc, and it costing almot 200$, naa thats fine"
I did not think someone could love wotc that much they just ignore all that
@@MithrilRoshi I don't. I also don't love most corporations doesn't mean I won't get a Coke. I'm preordering my books from my local comic shop not Hasbro (they usually hook me up with the alternative covers) and I'm not doing anything with their digital. I still think the books are going to be good material.
D&D is really being the best marketing tool Pathfinder could have ever asked for at this point.
I perfer Castles and Crusades by Troll lord games
You’re not wrong. I know I’m switching over to pathfinder 2e after all this nonsense. Never thought I’d see the day
I actually just played the Pathfinder video games and I loved them. I think they were still 1.0 and based on D&D, but I can't wait when they release a video game using the 2.0 rules.
This is why I like my AD&D....If I want new things, I write them up myself, make copies and freely share with my players.
there was a reaseon why the follow ups had no "Advanced" in the title anymore.... they could not measure up to the best version....
Darn right. There is a reason that with mods included the OG CRPGs are still the best. I mean companion mods are always iffy but the other stuff like classes and monsters and items are great.
“Can we not have a hasbro/wotc scandal… FOR FIVE MINUTES?!?!”
Then she wouldn’t have anything to complain about … LOL!
That's completely up to Hasbro.
Not when you are dealing with Hasbro. If you think this is bad, dang my heart goes out to the Magic people.
*Hasbro sneeks it ugly muzzle up right next to us*: Pop!
This is Not even a scandal. Just some upset people who what attention in their videos. I personally already preorder my books, and not for the few extras digital content. People who want to preprder will do, people who Dont will not.
Common Sense reminder: 5th Edition, for all it's warts, will continue to exist the day this new edition hits the shelves. And the next day, too. I play in a 3.5 campaign to this day.
And if you REALLY want to keep playing under the 5th edition framework, supported, and give NOT WotC a dime, Tales of the Valiant by Kobold Press is an option.
The srd is under cc by@@opscontaylor8195
@@opscontaylor8195 Or just switch to another game. There are so many great TTRPGs out there - the obssession of most US players with D&D is a bit strange to say the least, especially considering the fact that neither 4e or 5e are particularly great. The last good D&D edition was 3.5.
Euw...3.5? All Casters, right? Melee classes become Obsolete after lvl 7....
@@Hauke-ph5ui3.5 was a joke.
For someone who has been playing D&D since first edition and it was AD&D, who can remember when half the population thought it was witchcraft and the other half worried that playing wouldn't make them cool, seeing how the hobby endured all these years, I'm so disgusted with what it has become.
I remember when dwarf and elf were class. Before AD& D even existed. And sadly, one of the many who left after the ogl Scandal and converted to Pathfinder. decades after
@@goblinballadeer9318 agreed and agreed. Still, it does my nerd heart good every time I hear someone talk about D&D at the grocery store, because now it's so normal 😀
Same. My motivation for leaving was not even as much as the OGL scandal or the monetization. It was executive producer Kyle Brink formally inviting 'guys like me' to leave the hobby. And then waiting for WotC to crawfish, like they had done to some degree with every other blunder. But no, not this statement. Indicating to me that of all the missteps WotC took, the one they cared about most and would not retract or qualify or try to smooth over was that "guys like me can't leave the hobby soon enough."
I didn't leave WotC because Hasbro loves money. I left WotC because WotC hates the guys that built the hobby, kept it alive and loved it when nobody else did.
I'm so happy to have found a local group that plays 1st edition
none of these problems getting in our way 👍
We are right there with ya.... Me Too
9th gen consoles have failed due to failures of the players experience, Hollywoods flogging visual IP like story doesn’t matter and Srs bzns types preach copyright ownership as extortion rather than a product.
Corporate capitalism kills art and joy.
AI is the only hype scam they have left.
It’s time to beat them at our game.
Use your own homebrew rules, develop modded VTTs, write original IP, crowdsource opportunities.
Without the GMs & players they only have someone else’s work they are marketing as their own.
What’s the point of a new scam with an old idea when there’s plenty of choice in the market?
If every DnD fan tried one new franchise the executives would probably be doomed.
Perpetual profits are a fantasy of financial ghouls.
They have all the money but are creatively bankrupt
And most importantly - stop calling what you play "D&D". WOTC's power in this space comes entirely from the title "Dungeons and Dragons". If no one cared about that name, no one would care about OneD&D and no one would care about WOTC. Break free from the tiny walled garden that is systems based on the name D&D.
Corporate greed kills everything
To quote Muse: "a system based on endless growth is Unsustainable." Coorporate greed will kill us all.
3e Player's Handbook (2000) - $30
4e Player's Handbook (2008) - $35
5e Player's Handbook (2014) - $50
Anyway, I got what I wanted from them: a new map of the Flanaess for the "World of Greyhawk," and thankfully that was freely available.
Prices adjusted for inflation:
$30 in 2000 = $55 in 2024-USD
$35 in 2008 = $51 in 2024-USD
$50 in 2014 = $55 in 2024-USD
2024 Player's Handbook Digital + Physical Bundle costs $60
So the real price increased by $5 and includes digital version
Commander Sterling has been warning people for decades, literal decades, that this shit would not stop in the video games industry, that it was only a matter of time before other industries and hobbies started doing this.
Do they have your attention now?
Sorry, my FOMO was hitting hard, what did you say? lol
sterdust has always had my rapt attention!
They had my attention then, and they still do now. Heck, I work in games, and I tell people not to pre-order. The only ones benefitting from it are the execs at the publisher. For the devs, pre-order bonuses, marketing shots we have to prep early, and especially all that early access is so much extra headache at the worst possible time. When you're trying to get the game ready for release, likely already working overtime, the last thing you need is all that additional work and associated distractions. Screw preorders. If you value the games and people who work on them, buy the game when it ships, preferably after checking out the reviews. Not like Steam or your favorite console storefront are going to run out of digital copies.
Next stop movie industry with "a happy ending" "a twist ending" "a real ending* and "a secret real ending" dlcs XD
The Jimquisition knows what's up.
We are in the middle of both the Old School Renaissance AND the Indie Press Revolution for TTRPGs. There's no reason to support this company, ever. There are better games out there. Hell, other companies are even doing better Dungeons and Dragons (Basic Fantasy, Old School Essentials, Dungeons Crawl Classics, etc). Forget Ha$bro and WotC and their Pinkerton agents. There's so many other games out there.
We are also in the middle of a huge mainstream alternative RPG moment with games like Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer, Dragonbane and Traveller, (The list goes on and on) selling like beasts.
@@galinor7 Love (and own) all those games too. There's no reason to give WotC/Ha$bro cash at this point. Even if someone likes 5e, there are other 5e games (like the Lord of the Rings one) where you can get the same system without the guilt of supporting a company that uses Pinkerton agents against fans. :)
Just got a copy of Knave 2. It's supposed to be pretty good.
As a West Virginian I refuse to support a company that works with the Pinkertons
Damn straight.
My mom is 78 and West Virginian, daughter of a coal miner. I brought up what wotc did and the first words out of her were "bleeping Pinkertons? To hell with them then."
Even as a direct descendant of the founding Pinkertons, I say f*ck the Pinkertons.
I give WV a lot of shit, but do you know how hard it is to get people elsewhere to remember who the Pinkertons even are? Bless y'all.
that shouldve been the breaking point for everyone imo, if a company can send a physical threat to correct their own mistake then no one should be supporting that company. its very simple.
Proud and Loud boycotter of wotc since Autumn 2007! For 25 years now (I was 7 years late) wotc has aggressively attacked its customer base and, indeed, its own authors, editors and other content-creators, with the belligerent philosophy of (How did the leaked email from 1999 say it?) Quote: "We don't care how many customers we lose as long as we can gain more." (It's actually not precisely a word-for-word quote from that company email that was leaked, but pretty much is 'Exact'.) How many times now has wotc burned down its customer's games in the greed to try to get even more rich? .... To EVERYONE who still pays for wotc product: There are FAR better games, more interesting, more dynamic, more fun -- and even the stuff wotc vomits out that is solid, why support such a company?! Other companies are putting out so much better material AND have FANTASTIC customer service and loyalty to their writers, editors, and fans! Personally, I'm All-In for Paizo's Pathfinder. Or as I call it "Real D&D"! But there's so much great stuff out there! LET WOTC DIE!
Spoiler: The books don't fix any of the old issues, the changes address the superficial complaints of new players which in turn will create more issues.
You're no slouch when it comes to turning a phrase... but "All the grace and dignity of an incontinent flasher at a public park" is one of your all-time best lines. I could see, hear and smell that image in my head. Brava!
In the immortal words of Commander Sterling: "Companies don't want to make money. They want to make ALL of the money."
This.
The Cassandra of Video Games is always right!
"Make", "take", potato potahto.
Well we can always have another GW scandal after the whole femstodes debacle we know have GW suing a guy for making 3D printable minis for a gamesystem that no longer exists...
@@Erikjust Not just making 3D printable minis for a game system that no longer exists:
Making 3d models of things that GW didn't even actually design, for a game that doesn't exist, and for factions they never had models for in the first place, and just giving the files to whoever wanted them to do with as they pleased.
In other words: GW is claiming they lost money on something they never created, to a guy that wasn't making money on them.
The answer is simple, stop buying their products. It's a hobby not a necessity and you can play perfectly fine for the rest of your life with what you already have.
Word.
Exactly.
Amen
Not to mention everything will be posted online not long after release. Yo ho ho and all that.
Or, just stop pretending everything is an end of the world crisis.
Weird. It’s 50$ a book in the US, which is what it’s been for a decade now. The preorder stuff is bizarre , but the books didn’t even get more expensive.
41 euro here the special edition
The gold dragon is not even a physical figure… why would I even?!?!
Own nothing and be happy
The great thing about previous editions, is the books are still around. We don't have to have the newest, shiny thing.
Nothing stopping us from using the 3.5 books for our own games
@@ApocGenesis Exactly.
@@ApocGenesis And/or modifying with homebrew rules.
I still play 3.5.
In fact, the previous editions (other than 4E) are better.
Most places give you digital copy for free with a physical purchase. HASBRO makes you pay for both.
Fr this is one reason i wouldn't get the new stuff, bc for now i can use the old digital ones shared to me and i got the physical set of the 5e books. Why should i now pay to get this again for a fortune...
How is having access to the information on a website a digital copy? Without it being a pdf download it is not a digital copy, it is a digital representation that you will not have access to whenever they decide to increase the price, shut down the site, etc.
Yar har, fiddle de dee
Being a pirate is alright to be
Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free
You are a pirate!
It's not even worth pirating.
Piracy in this case implies that the product is itself worth having. This isn't the only RPG out there, not by a long shot, and it sure as hell isn't the best one either.
@WombatDave Oof, that's savage. And kinda sad, too. Imagine pissing off your fans so much they don't even want to pirate your product.
Although for me it's sad because I only just got into the ttrpg hobby a few years ago because I never had any friends who wanted to play back in the 90s and 2000s, and now the company is ruining themselves so bad, nobody wants to play the game anymore. I mean yeah I can just play a different game, but getting all the books is expensive, and I had already spent money on physical books before the first OGL scandal.
@@wunnup3229 Pathfinder 1e is free in its entirety as an SRD. Add the Spheres of Power system for really awesome customization. That one is also free.
Dragonbane 😉
Yup thats why I've never spent a dime on any TTRPG materal after the OGL, like sure we won this one, but they did it once, you think we could trust them to not do that again
they are certainly proving that to no suprise, we can not trust them again
There is so much 3rd party 5E content available you could play D&D for decades and never run out of things to do.
My thought exactly. There are countless super talented creators to support instead of giving in Hasbro's greed
I would rather host a DnD 4th edition campaign in Microsoft Paint using Discord's screenshare over purchasing ANY of this price gouged nonsense.
Honestly, using Google Sheets as a VTT works surprisingly well. 😅
Stop giving me ideas
Joking aside, Microsoft Paint with its new AI auto draw/fill features might actually be a good DM tool!
@@byrongehrig8429 wait what
That's not a bad idea! Constder it stolen 😁
Weird that they've forgotten (or are simply ignoring the fact) that people don't play dnd to play dnd. We play it to spend time with friends, create cool and fun stories or to just indulge in a little power fantasy. Think i'm gonna have to start asking the games i play in if we should start switching to other TTRPG's at some point with all this craziness happening at dnd.
This is why many of us switched to Pathfinder first and second edition. It's not the game version. It's the friends and family we play with.
Some games have appeal for being well-designed and having engaging mechanics. 5e isn't one of those games.
I think it is like board games. You have some board games that are legitimately fun to play. And then you have games like Monopoly which everyone knows about and everyone has their own private rules they insist make the game fun when most of the time it does not.
@@look_papriker how can they understand the joy of playing dnd with friends and having a little power fantasy? They want to play with the players (in a different way) and partake in a massive power fantasy XD
Jokes aside, I doubt any of the decision makers really understand the joy of dnd. And possibly neither do a good chunk of newer players chasing ideal campaigns as seen on tv/games. They'll monetize it as much as they can, then drop it and hopefully someone new will pick it up and build further
I think Jason Hall, when talking about why microtransactions are around, also was on point why preorders exist: "Because dipshits keep buying them."
Yeah, the TTRPG world is already split, but this will solidify it. We're going to have people who pre-order D&D on one side, and then people who actually play TTRPGs on the other. And then D&D is going to fade away until Hasbro cuts WotC loose and someone else (like TenCent) will buy the IP.
@@gmjeremy3627
...oh god, please not TenCent. There's a lot horrible companies out there, but TenCent is prolly among the worst.
IMHO, Preorders and Microtransactions both have a place; but that place is also very specific and limited. What it's grown into is objectively horrible...because people are idiots and keep paying for them.
It was pre-ordered for me as a Father's Day gift. I don't think my daughter's a dipshit. But, you go ahead and enjoy playing GURPS or whatever. To each their own.
@@1Bearsfan
Regardless of the mental acuity and capacity of your daughter, that does not change the fact that she has contributed to the overall problem; whether it's with D&D, Video games or something else entirely.
Regardless of the reason or motivation, the fact remains that by opening her wallet and handing money to WotC, she has told WotC that she is okay with their business model, and is therefore a datapoint that can be used to continue the enshitification of the TTRPG industry.
The great news is that there are literally *hundreds* of free role-playing games out there. Fuck Hasbro and everything they stand for.
The moment they release the PDF is the moment the whole thing is available for free. A slightly bigger problem is the fact that it's such garbage nobody would even WANT to pirate it.
WOTC have found an interesting solution to piracy - just drive away all the people who aren't queueing up to kiss the ground they walk on. Get a 0% piracy rate by making your playerbase exclusively people so in love with your company that they'll pay whatever you ask for whatever you make.
As an OSR player, my takeaway from this is
The Irish have pancake mix in jars???
I've been playing D&D since 1978, I've played every edition, and since the OGL scandal, I will not be giving WoTC any money, not a penny. I'm hoping that 6e is the Hindenburg for them, I know it a long shot, but I can dream. 12:31
I stopped playing when the OGL BS happened . I keep checking in every now and then in hopes something positive happens!
same boat for me. im 1979, but same thing, and i stipped before the OGL, just because there stuff is crap.
@@normknapp4404but we're not making mega profits where we can have tens of millions of dollars each. That's what the board is thinking every time they do something stupid.
85 for me. Loved going to conventions and playing older versions. OGL killed off any love I have for anything new. There are other games and older versions.
To be honest, while I may have bad feelings, I do not care how any "ex" fares. It is behind me for a reason.
And this? This is why I have my original copies of 2nd edition and have never, ever needed anything else. I have not seen a single new edition that made a DM able to tell a better story. The need for edition after edition is a pure money grab.
I love that the "like" button flashed when Discourse said "Moneeey pleaaase." Well played, well played.
"Ubisoft exec says gamers need to get comfortable with not owning your games"
Remember, kids: if buying isn't owning - piracy isn't stealing
Piracy is never stealing. You can’t steal data that can easily be replicated
Working on a 1st edition module. That's what's getting me back into DMing. My old books. That 5 year campaign. Trying other old systems... Ol' AD&D had it all...
I miss THAC0. 😔
Everything except game balance.
Or being able to find all the rules for opening doors on a single page. 😊
@@gregoryvn3 nothing home rules and getting reacquainted with you books and having fun with old friends doesn't solve.
Thank you for encapsulating this for me. I abandoned D&D Beyond when the OGL protest peaked and I haven't looked back. I hope the mainstream will resist this garbage.
I keep looking back. I then see what they're doing and cry a little more and turn around and walk farther away.
@@joshuacr Don't look back, do you want pillars of salt? Because that is how you get pillars of salt!!!
things usually only go mainstream if they are garbage, there is a reason pop music is soulless.
@@comyuse9103 Other way around, I think - things go mainstream and creativity dies in the name of fleecing the tourists, and then whoever has the biggest marketing budget starts to decide the course of the most widely known examples of the previously niche hobby, and the subculture disappears as focus group testing and mass market appeal gets blended into it until everything that made it unique and fun in the first place is lost. Then the tourists get tired of it and the oldheads are left to wander the post-apocalyptic ruins, scrabbling for any scraps of past glories to be found in old material that have not been tainted by corporate strip mining. This is why you have to gatekeep your nerdy niche hobby - it's too late for D&D, too late for Star Trek, far too late for Star Wars... Less material and less fans is better if it means only the ones who have a real passion for it are involved.
If Habsro keeps this up, you'll have to change your channel name to "Disappointments & Debacles."
But for real, thank you for breaking this down. My tabletop group has really drifted away from D&D towards indie games.
Whats even worse is that all of the bonus but the $60 are digital.
"You made me look bad. And that's not good." The state of that movie is legendary.
When I was a young nerd, and I went to my local game shop, clutching my saved up allowance to buy the newly released D&D 3.0 books that had just come out, one of the men at the game shop (who had actually DM'd for my older brother's game group when I had first joined them), scoffed at me when I put the books down on the counter and said "Don't buy that crap, don't give Hasbro your money, those f'ers are gonna kill D&D"... and now, a quarter of a century later, that prophecy has come true.
you mean the exact same thing is happening... except this thread is the man at the game shop and potential new players are you.
Wait, when I initially went through that...erm... "bonus" list, I thought the dice set were like ACTUAL PHYSICAL sets... why would I pay for differently coloured DIGITAL dice that I see for like 10 seconds every 5 minutes in and every 30 minutes out of combat?
It'd be completely different imo, if the pre-order books came with a physical dragon mini and some 15 sets of actual dice. That's stuff with actual value and if they are of any quality what so ever, those + the books would probably add up to well over 180 dollars in value. The early access thing would still be scummy, but at least they wouldn't be blatantly short-changing us.
But nah, they're trying to charge us 180 dollars for 3 books and some pngs for their paid subscription service. They can screw right off with that.
@@webbowser8834 Exactly, that's why I innitially thought it might not be THAT bad. That would be like an actual good thing. Thinking of someone who is interested in DnD, didn't get any stuff yet though, and considers the new rulebooks coming out to be a good time to really start the hobby - then that could be like a nice starter set basically. You get the core books, a cool dragon mini, a set of dice for each of your friends who join you and some more dice sets for the DM. You could even use the rest of the dice as substitute for minis until you get something better for battles.
Though as someone who doesn't own any of the books - what was their usual price tag? Are they usually like 60 dollars each? or do they even charge extra for the early access on top?
@@LucRio448 Based on a quick search, it looks like a set of 3 recent RPG books generally goes for 40-50 dollars per physical book, for a total of 120-150 dollars for the set (using the Pathfinder 2e remaster as the baseline here). So yeah, assuming the digital stuff is 100% worthless, WotC is badly overcharging for these books.
PDFs are, of course, much cheaper. Typically running at ~20 dollars per book.
@@webbowser8834 No, that's the same price. The physical books are $50 each. The $180 bundle includes both physical AND digital copies of the books.
And as a side note, the subscription has a really huge benefit that you might not notice if you're not familiar with it: digital book sharing. In my current group, the DM owns all the books, and all 6 players own 0 books. They can share the books allowing us to access all the info, rules, etc, and make characters, despite not having the books ourselves. I'd say that's worth $5 a month all on it's own. Sure you could share the books around a table in a physical game, but our game is hosted entirely online as we're all spread out and can't do a physical game, so sharing the books that way would require someone to scan and share copies of every book, for instance.
why would i pay for a skin in a FPS game that only the enemy gets to see?
same reason. People like pretty things...
if you're excited to try the new D&D VTT i'm sure digital goodies are exciting for you.
If your not, don't pre-order. just buy from your local game store.
They need to justify spending 60 dollars. They have not.
They're charging $30 x 6 ($30 per book). Why they continue to not provide a stout discount for the digital edition if you first buy in paper, or for the paper if you first buy in digital (if you even happen to want both) seems to be the actual topic at hand. I mean if you think of it as, $40 for paper + $20 more for digital that's what this is, except you have to buy all three books in duplicate for $180 to get that "deal."
@@Radian76 they're actually charging $50 per physical book (like they always have) and are offering each digital book at a stout discount of $10 each.
@@gameblasteralpha The digital books are $30 if bought on their own, which is the standard pricing of most digital books on DriveThru RPG.
So if you buy both the physical and the Beyond you get the digital at $20 off, which is much like many of the POD physical + pdf books also o DTRPG.
I'm all in support for Hasbro's boycott but we've had pre-orders in the RPG scene for a while, not to mention early supporter bonuses on KS and the likes. If anything it took Hasbro more than I thought it would to get in on that action.
The only thing I really see as a problem is the fact that what you get for pre-order is really mid. Painting this as a "New Hasbro's Scandal" is a bit much if not even a bit hypocritical, specially considering the real ones they've been up to.
Not to mention that you can pre-order each book individually, in that bundle, for $60 or just go for either version ($30 for digital, $50 for physical).
You're not forced to pre-order the full core bundle as the video insinuates.
Again, I'm not in favor of Hasbro, but this video wasn't it.
Thank you WotC... I no longer feel bad about completely dropping your brand. It is why i am happily moving on to other companies.
Imagine playing D&D when there are better alternatives right there.
Pathfinder 2e's rulebooks are all free btw
Including rules from books you HAVE to pay for, it's just the campaigns and lore you have to buy
both pathfinder editions' rules are free, and so is starfinder's, which is honestly the best shit.
@@comyuse9103 yall deserve so much better than whatever 5e spelljammer was istg
where is it free beyond the SRD??
@@otakuofmine archives of nethys for rules, they even got an official discord
@@otakuofmine the archives of nethys is the official unofficial free source for all the rules in pathfinder, starfinder, and pathfinder 2e. d20pfsrd also has rules for pathfinder 1e that may be laid out in a way you might like more.
Wizbro's D&D is dead to me...
Wizbro, I like that. gonna have ta pull Wizbro & steal it from you. ;)
@@jaykarimi7123 Thanks, I thought it evocative, please steal and use to your hearts content.
I'm going to steal it and offer people to pay $180 to use it 2 weeks before everyone else.😂
@@joshuacr How Wizbro of you!
@@joshuacr 🤣🤣🤣
I'm pretty glad I left DnD behind tbh. You don't treat with people who have knifed you already.
"Isn't that just like Hasbro, bringing exclusive pre-order bundle packages to a whale-hunt." -Jim Malone
@@delicountercouture It makes me sad though because I grew up on DnD and it's just another cash-grabbing company. I guess what do we expect out of a corporation in the first place? But still it's basically Theseus ship at this point, so i can walk away knowing its no longer for me.
@@zombiehampster1397 Didn’t that get debunked massively when someone looked at the Wikipedia edit history of The Ship of Theseus and came to the conclusion that yes it is still the same “ship” or in this case “page”
A better example would be... An EA Vampire chopping up a product to sell one word at a time?
Not even going to mess around with OGL stuff because you just know they're going to try and go after it again, it's only a matter of time.
Left them behind when 3rd edition started!
"Fuck WotC" is all I have to say.
Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Older D&D Editions, etc are far better choices. The only 5th Edition D&D stuff I buy is Kickstarter ideas like what Kibbles does (and I have helped fund a lot of cool books and ideas) and I buy 3rd stuff like Mage Hand Press and Kobold Press.
I pray to every cosmic entity imaginable that this new plan of WotC/Hasbro fails tremendously. I want to see it crash and burn and I hope to God that it doesn't make them money, and that people don't support it. Seeing the absolute dumpster fire of a state D&D is in today saddens the hell out of me.
What angers me the most about the new books is that if just one player wants to make a character using the new PHB, it is "strongly recommended" to then use the new rules for everyone. Basically, it pushes you to buy all the new books just for the one person otherwise it will "grind in a few places". Especially if you're playing online and content share through DNDBeyond
The irony is video game early access normally has glitches and problems. And aren't normally fixed til official release. Which makes this funny for DND to do
They fired the staff, so they can bring back an editor as a contractor to spiff up mistakes? I am sure that is the plan anyway.
"I will not be preordering D&D"
Me: "You are paying for the new books?"
(No offense meant, imagine that "You are getting paid?"-meme)
(OGL soured me on WotC and siccing goons on a youtuber only solidified my decision to stay away.)
Why pay when you can get the PDF "completely legitimately" soon.
@@Lrbearclaw It's not even worth going through "completely legitimate channels".
hell give it less than 4 years and you can get the same book in a bargain bin at 75percent off
@@Lrbearclaw I didnt want to be too obvious about it but considering I do find what I heard of the new rules interesting Yar Har Matey hoist the sails
Agreed, If I’m going to buy anything from WOTC again, it’s so I can make pirating it easier for others
to quote the captain of the enterprise D & E, "the line must be drawn HERE! this far! no further!"
Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!
The future of Dungeons & Dragons for who? Will they sit at my table here in my home and tell me how I should play? Will they take my wallet and force me to Preorder? Hell, even if they quadruple the price, will they send Pinkertons to my house to stop me from scanning a book and printing it in a high quality hardcover with a local book artisan? You bet they'll fucking not. Did Dungeons & Dragons died when they fucked up royally with 4th edition? Or did people just started playing Pathfinder and started paying money to another company? They tried to revoke the OGL and what did that do instead of at least 6 companies trying to build something better for themselves?
We do WotC too much credit. Much more credit than they deserve and much much more credit they can even handle. They can't supply the entire fanbase of TTRPG players in the world. There are trillions of worlds to be told in stories outside their domain. I've been playing TTRPG for 24 years now, I've come and gone from D&D countless times, and like the history of planet earth, countless times doomsayers told us the world would cease to be just around the millenium corner. We're still here, TTRPGs are still here, D&D is still here. Nothing is set on stone and fuck Hasbro. Play however you want, play whatever you like and pirate that fucking thing if you need to.
Preordering is acceptable in one and only one case: To help a startup with limited funds putting their idea and plan of a product that you really, really want into reality. No major business, no AAA videogame publisher and no already established and popular ttrpg publisher has any business to try and convince you to preorder their shit.
Talk about a CEO who can’t read a room.
Worse, doesn't care. This is 2024 - so very many corporations and intellectual properties are being treated as disposable and guttable by the elite rich. I'm in computers - VMware, Citrix, some others escaping me, but same with D&D - "pump and dump" - maximize profits in the next 1 to 3 years while completely alienating the user base, driving customers away, then dump the carcass. This IS the "long-term strategy."
That fellow is a real own last name!
He can read the room, he just doesn't care
Cocks comes from Xbox to WotC, eradicates the culture ("we are caretakers on behalf of the players") and fires, pardon, is "forced to lay off due to company changes", anybody who has been there long enough to notice--or care--about the difference. The writing was on the wall 6 years ago when the new strategy of "monetize everything" was made obvious. Now, from the Hasbro chair, he pushes everything forward. He reads the only room that matters just fine--the boardroom.
Everybody else is just a mark to be fleeced.
Screw preorder, Not One More Dime to WotC or Hasbro. Period. For anything. D&D is dead, accept it and move on to something--ANYTHING--new.
(Disclaimer, I was in the 2nd layoff in a handful of months while everything was turned into a "Digital Studio" to create Arena. I wouldn't cross the street to piss on the man if he were on fire.)
@@DougO_ Welcome to late-stage capitalism. Please turn your wallet over to the guard at the door. You won't need it.
I am so glad I have moved to Free Rules Lite games as a GameMaster
Just accept it; D&D is dead. They think they are Sony, selling a video game that people *want* instead of a TTRPG hobby.
There are other TTRPGs. Many others. Explore them, and remember what that joy was like.
One of the only bright lights in a horrible dark era was dungeons& dragons during the pandemic around the world. That Joy has long been lost.
I don't think D&D is dead, it will just go back to being small niche groups of friends making up stuff with only our imaginations.
Nah, DnD isn't dead. It hasn't died since OD&D, AD&D, 2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, 5e. People just stick with the systems they like. Because at the end of the day, they can't take the game away. They're trying to control something in a way that it fundamentally cannot be controlled. Hasbro is treating it like a video game, but it simply... isn't. One person can still share all their books with their friends. It's all we need, and nothing will be able to stop that.
The really sad thing is that *LOADS* of those "other" TTRPGs are ... and have been for decades ... far superior to D&D, yet many players don't realize this because they refuse to even *TRY* anything else. 😠
@@morganpetros9635
The huge advantage for DnD is that you find players quite easily and Dungeon Masters with a little effort. And without the need to convince anyone of your new fancy system.
Many players are reluctant to learn a new system. Rather playing what they already know. And there are often so many character ideas and power fantasies stuck in player heads that they can`t really let go of DnD.
But I would agree that DnD is among the most inferior RPG systems if you are not out for mindless dungeon crawling. I often refer to DnD as an overhyped hero quest for that reason.
Fully agree. If Hasbro wants to run their business the way that's most financially advantageous to them, I will simply acquire their goods in a way that is most financially advantageous to me. 🤷♀️
I see only truth in the speech, clear and straightforward truths... for us Brazilians it was always hard (understood with this statement: the major PIRACY that had happen in the history of man kind searchin' for a way to spend some good time playin' the hobby of preference) since the prices on D&D books were set in dolar pricefication, and never was a true effort from Hasbro to bring to "portuguese speakers" their product, it was an effort of our enterpeneurs to translate the books that those enterprises could had find trough the opportunity of stabelishing contracts with WoC... and now we face of the uninterest of Hasbro in gain money with the decision of remove support for translation to portuguese of Brasil, know firsthand and as consequence that we will in a "mass attack of piracy" "reach for" all the pdf's and content and translate ourselves all the stuff, just for the fun of playing D&D.
Waitwaitwaitwait.... WAIT.
Your pancake mix comes in a jar?
I think this requires a video all on its own.
Is Ireland even real?
i don't want to understand but kinda do....
Ok what! You need a DnD subscription to access the early access stuff. Normally when it comes to these preorder offers it would be, "preorder our product and get say 6 months free of our subscription service as the bonus for preordering". Not preorder and now you need to buy our subscription service to access it.
For those that say, "Preorders have existed for RPGs on kickstarters for a long time, this isn't new". That's very different. I've done it with mine, but that's because it's usually smaller developers raising the money needed to make the product in the first place. Did I do several tiers on my early access for my books? Sure, but I needed that to develop the final product, AND I don't offer for any BS side stuff that you're not gonna benefit from, and despite being a small time developers, many of us release books of the same size (or larger) at a much smaller price.
WotC had the money to do this from day one, pre-ordering isn't required for the launch, and many of their 'extras' are really there just to push you towards other money generators. They've taken a system that could have helped small developers (like myself) fund their process, and went full EA/Ubisoft.
What we've done on kickstarter is very different from what WotC is doing here.
Ah the "pre-orders are only good if they are MY Pre-orders" Argument. Very Rational.
@GeneralHiro if you only see Kickstarter as nothing more than a pre-order platform. But his description (and most kickstarters I've backed) are more about putting up your money for the development (turning your potential customers into investors)
@@fccphoto Well as the "ROI" in this case is "actually getting the product you paid for"...
I definitely wouldn't consider myself an investor for backing a Kickstarter...
I can get my jollies off thinking I had played some part in making something happen and let myself live in a fantasy that I am now connected to something bigger than myself, but other than that, it's just a pre-order mate.
I've seen "sequels" on kick starter... they aren't off limits for established companies... I fail to see the difference.
- A Product is promised to arrive at some point in the future, you pay for it before receiving it and wait for said time to arrive, product is then shipped to you.
Call it what you want the definition is the same...
It's almost worse than that actually cause you can back a kickstarter and not even get anything. it's like Gambling. at least with a pre-order i know what i am getting and will for sure get it.
@@GeneralHiro That's more of you just not doing good research with where you're putting money and just getting scammed lol. Plenty of scams exist on kickstarter, just like how hasbro and plenty of company scams their audience. Just because you got complacent in their greedy ways doesn't make make you morally right, or right at all for that matter.
You're basically saying you're not getting scammed because you still got the product in the end. Try buying a carton of eggs for 100 times the market price and come back to me on that one.
9:49 "we're gonna have to wait weeks after everybody else to play" - it's two weeks and if you are friends with someone who has bought them, you can get access to them from that friend.
You had me until the Paizo reference. Paizo's CEO, Lisa Stevens, was once VP at WotC, and she has gone on record condeming WotC for what is going on right now, she is fueled by spite. Shed burn the company to the ground before following in Wizard's footsteps with this crap.
A prime example of this is Archives of Nethys. All the rules for Paizo's games are there.. just like free... accessible to everyone. It doesnt have any fluff or lore, but it's there...
Hasbro Wizards wants people to BUY the game... Paizo wants people to PLAY the game.
The Pinkertons would like a word.
If any Pinkertons are listening, I pirated all the Hasbro sht. Stack up.
I have a word for them
I am so glad I quit collecting D&D books. This is ridiculous! I already quit buying the Minis because they over priced them out of My budget. When a Brick was $90 - 100 it was fine now they are close to or over $200 ! Nope! This game isn't worth it with all the political overtones and crap. Nah..
Political overtones? My brother in christ, it's based on the world views of a catholic in the 70s who grew up on the stories told by an early-20th century war veteran who made the dwarves into caricatures of Jews and the orcs into racist stereotypes of black people. D&D has _always_ been political.
It's ridiculous. I use to get my minis the same way until the price hike.
You can get a 3D printer these days for around $100 and print all the minis you want.
"Damn it! Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast has done it again! Engaging in deplorable business practices. Why won't they change?"
"I know, right? By the way, where are you going?"
"Oh, I'm going to buy the new Player's Handbook."
plenty of other ways to get it that don't cost $. It's time to treat them like they treat us.
@@jaykarimi7123 Plenty of other GAMES to get that don't cost $.
It's time to treat them like THEY'RE UNNECESSARY, DON'T EXIST and look at MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
And that's the problem. People are too stuck in their ways to branch out to one of the THOUSANDS of systems that blow DnD out of the water. People just want their generic, watered down, bland slop that wotc feeds them
The fact is pre-orders were always a problem, but we as consumer base never stopped and said "You know what? No. This is not okay", because they always added some sort of incentive with it. Usually some sort of collectable. It was eventually going to leak into the table top. WotC was just the first one to do it, but if it wasn't them, it was going to be someone else. And yes to the Pathfinder players, it is very likely that if it wasn't WotC first, it was most likely going to be them. And if it wasn't ether of them, it was going to be someone else. We did this to ourselves by allowing it in the video game market for so long.
Honestly "Pre-Order Bonuses" are one of the best ways to monetize imo.
No requirement to purchase any special pack but there if you want it.
As someone who lives in Canada and has been Paying $59.95/Book for years... it's a nice bonus to get the Digital version for free with a pre-order.
Also as someone who lives in Canada, I am mildly annoyed the pre-order bundle is only available for sale on D&D Beyond which only ships to USA...
If you're going to offer pre-order bonuses they shouldn't be region locked... WOTC has a massive supply chain I'm sure they could have figured this out.
As for: "Pre-ordering books we haven't seen yet"... well that's the thing the pre-order will still be available in a month when the other book reveals will be happening.
Plus you can always cancel a pre-order if you find out the book isn't what you were hoping for.
Overall everything I'm seeing from all the reveal videos: "Looks good."
Genuinely excited to try out the 2024 edition. Looks like it tackles a number of pain point while not requiring me to learn an entirely new system.
OGL 2.0 Controversy was a total debacle but love it or hate it: My players all know 5e 🤷♂ Plus we have nearly every 5e module and expansion, all of which are compatible with 2024 edition... so it'll be hard to turn my back on the X-Hundreds of dollars we spent because WotC made a poor choice months ago.
End of the Day OLG debacle was a nightmare but also blown out of proportion. Every lawyer pointed out the fact that WotC was basically unable to repeal the original OGL due to the language in it (the language specifically put in it by the original authors to prevent the exact type of abuse Hasbro was trying to implement) Worst case scenario: everything published after OGL 2.0 was covered by it but that would have just left the entire existing 5e homebrew scene as is, untouchable. I believe this is why WotC backed down, At the end of the day they didn't have a leg to stand on. The fan response helped but the nearly impossible legal nature of the entire thing made it a poor choice to even attempt from the outset.
Anyone remember the days you could write any old POS down on a napkin and call it homebrew and everyone loved it. Everything is so over judged these days... Everything is "THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE EVER!" this over hype culture has me so burnt out... like can't we be fkin happy for 12 seconds about the fact we just have the time and mental space available to even consider playing these games... but rather than be happy that we can actually play a game, we get upset cause "it'S NoT ThE wRiGhT gAmE1!1!"
Like fk anyone remember having fun playing Tag as a kid? TAG! No Equipment Required, The rule are Tag you're it and you just GO! that's all we needed at one time. Now we're gonna have a melt down cause WoTC offers pre-orders...
gosh if this is how you feel about pre-orders Kick starter must really get your goat :O
House Biscuit, represent!
"We do not pre-order!"
Prepare to sail the briney seas. Only one person actually needs to purchase these books and that person doesn't have to be you....
Arrr! Ahoy! Avast! Shiver Me Timbers!
Been doing that for YEARS, will never stop.
Even with "free" version, darting away from dnd can only make good things for the hobby. More diversity, more approach, more ideas
@@dennod5025 Yeah, i agree some Neuroshima sounds nice.
Jesuswept no seriously, why bother when you can get full legal systems FOR FREE?
11:36 Imagine having sessions often enough and consistently enough that 2 weeks without a game is a significant schedule alteration. Good for those who can, but even my biweekly games often have dry months from scheduling issues, and meanwhile all the games I've been DMing have been on hold for the past 10 months due to my work schedule.
I feel this... 😔
The best D&D was 2nd addition, instead of creating new content & new worlds, they just repackage, tweek slightly & sale it all again. The game deserves to die if this is what it's going to be.
Damn right! Its disgusting what happened with gaming industry. Standard edition, full edition, game of the year edition, gold edition, elite edition, hero edition, supreme edition, diamond edition… list goes on. And then, there is subscription. Hell no!
"Time to trim the marks" - Hasbro
($240 for three books) $80 a book is insanely unobtainable to everyone as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully, it's physical and not digital. Almost $100 Digital purchases are a massive obvious problem. That problem is obviously "What happens when the digital files become corrupt?" Or if those files are attached to a website to view "What happens when that website has a conniption fit and deletes your digital content right out from under your nose and any proof of purchase like some people have issues with on console games (Nintendo?) What do you do then?"
Just stick to physical books if the price was already an ungodly $60 a book in stores. Now we're bumping up to $80+. This is disgusting.
I buy all mine for $25-30 off ebay.
You can get the PHB for $30 on Roll20, and an Expanded Monster manual with 470 monsters. Your best option, works for me since I run most my games through roll20, saves the hassle being able to drag stuff into character sheets, dragging monsters onto the screen
The $240 is for digital AND physical copies
I still remember that i bought my 3.5 base books in a set for 80 bucks...
Yeah, it's for 6 books: 3 physical copies, and 3 digital copies. If you just want the 3 digital copies for instance, it's only $90 instead of $180. If you only want a single book, like say the digital players handbook, it's $30.
Since Tasha's, WOTC's books have all dropped to 50%+ off within a few months of release because nobody wants them enough to pay more than that, and WOTC are seeing that and thinking "We can raise the price here".
I would only preorder these books in order to leak them to the rest of the community in record time.
here here
You deserve a medal 🏅
That's the spirit
except that nothing states you are getting the books any earlier than anyone else at the stores. You simply prepaid for it.
I'm still wondering if the Surfshark being the sponsor of this video is a very deep cut or just a coincidence.
Not every piece of news can be "the worst scandal yet" 🙄
it is amazing how it kinda has been getting worse...every time
WotC is awful. Unfortunately, my experience with the video game industry leads me to believe there is a 0% chance people will say "no" to this and put a stop to it.
I remember when the spectral tiger mount came out in WoW and some of us were on the forums saying "This is going to lead to them selling gold and power and trivializing the reason for playing the game." And everybody said "no no no, doom and gloom, it's just a trading card that has an extra reward, so what?"
The big problem for pushing back against the excesses of corporate ghouls is that most people can't or refuse to tell that the water in the pot is getting hotter and will keep defending Corporation-sempai to the bitter end. People develop a parasocial relationship with a product and therefore its corporate owner. Which is just nuts.
Meanwhile, PF2e rules are for free :D
Hear, hear!
Technically this one will be free very soon.
@@skyguy713 May I purchase this from a gentleman adventurer?
@@skyguy713indeed, I'm sure there'll be a 6E Tools
1e too, in 2 places: PFSRD, and Archives of Nethys (Paizo's DnD Beyond...which existed before Beyond was even made, let alone bought by Hasbro)
I stopped playing after the 3rd edition.
I used what ever rules I saw fit for my friends so we had a good time.
Use the old books.
Photo copy them for friends. Draw your own maps. Make your own .
The price alone is nuts.
Pen and paper is the best.
I agree entirely, preordering will only cause more of the core developers to be fired. Don't give these clowns money, they will turn your beloved shared space into a circus.
When you put Hasbro and Wizards together, you get Hazards - y'know, those things you need to avoid in order to keep yourself safe?
This whole situation is the result of monetising FOMO, and it's become so normalised that we don't even think twice about it - we see "Pre-order now!!" and our brains immediately go to "I gotta get this ASAP or else I'll have to wait longer to get it!" Frankly, we allowed ourselves to be dragged into this situation by actually buying into this nonsense, and this is the end result.
Only one or two people actually need to buy these books anyway, then they can share it online for free so nobody has to give Hazards any more money - not that you'd actually want to, given how they've turned D&D into mush now, especially when there's plenty of other *_better_* TTRPGs out there to play instead.
*chuckles softly in old man*
Agreed. Please continue your rants, I love it.
5e works fine & I will not be "upgrading"
My group is not migrating to the next edition. We are in the process of choosing a replacement for 5e.
I don’t know about the new games like daggerheart but I love pathfinder. I play PF2E with my group and starfinder 2e is about to come out, it’s supposed to be cross compatible with PF2E.
@@Merchant074 I like something with less crunch. PF2eE seems not to be that. I'm pushing for something closer to DC20, or even Knave.
@@nunyamyob9555 yeah it does have a lot of crunch to it, starfinder 2e is coming out soon too so that’ll just add it it.
It’s not your standard fantasy rpg but I feel like I should shout it out cause I love it, try monster of the week. Very narrative focused rules. Its about a team of hunters get together to investigate supernatural activities, research the monster, figure out it’s weakness, and slay it.
@@Merchant074Love that game, and Powered by the Apocalypse is so versatile. I
I suggest PF2e. Its a ton of fun and a lot easier to DM for than 5e.
A lot of people think it's more rules heavy than 5e. It isn't. 5e pretends to be rules lite because it makes the DM come up with the rules for a lot of situations, so the rules are still there, just in the DMs head and players still have to know them.
PF2e has the DMs back a lot more.
GW: "we charge a ridiculous amount of money for our customers to play our games"
WotC: "hold my soy latte"
At least GW sells you plastic, and there is some real scarcity around not being able to deliver enough copies at launch. Yes, there are additional shenanigans GW pulls on top of that, but there's at least some sort of a foundation. The DnD source books preorder comes with a _digital_ dragon. I almost get the digital preorder exclusives with digital-only games - you're only getting a download for the whole thing. But when you're ordering printed books for a game that, yes, being played more and more online, is still a tabletop game at its core, and your preorder bonus is _digital_ on a $180 price tag? I'd almost forgive this bundle if it came with physical tabletop goodies. It's still greedy, but you're at least trying. As is? I don't think people marketing it know what they're selling or to whom.
A pre-order goes without saying, whenever hype far outpaces actual quality, doing pre-orders is an extremely good move - sell all those products to hyped people before any reviews come out. The bigger problem for me is that WOTC hasn't persuaded me that One D&D is worth buying when it's 67% off in two years, let alone worth buying before release. Actually, since the books are $80 now, it'd need to be a 75% discount before I said "Eh, maybe I'll get this". I can't imagine why anyone would pay $240 for something that is 90% words they *already own*.
Why the hell would I pay an outrageous $180 just for a more woke version of 5e? I'd do better to just keep using the versions I already have, making any necessary fixes with house rules. If I actually wanted 6e, I'd wait a few months for it to arrive at Ollie's.
The movie is Fatal Deviation, an indie Irish made martial arts film...
It is, the BEST kind of garbage!
Thanks, now i can watch it
@bogumilszymanski7716 You're welcome! Full movie is on UA-cam for free!
And yes before you ask... that's the actual film quality, there's NO higher res than that.
@@Simmons8519 There is no need for better quality. I think of it as a part of an art piece.
Go straight to the OSW review instead
Only three minutes in, and I already see that Hasbro is going the way of Ubisoft
Thanks to Basic Fantasy RPG, Old School Essentials and Knave - I am GONE for good, farewell WOTC. Also, the way they treated the D&D creators in their new 50th anniversary book is beyond disgusting.
Edited: for typos
All great systems. I am really liking Index Card RPG for its simplicity and ability to run many kinds of world settings, fantasy, sci Fi, weird West, superhero and more.
I still don’t understand why people care about DnD. There’s enough ttRPG players that they could create their own system on CC-BY-SA license and all those licensing and pricing issues would go away.
Cairn TTRPG is like this! People also post and sell "Hacks" for it for different flavors like cyberpunk or Norse themed. There's also a ton of extra content and systems for things like spells and base building