Currently own a 2017 Santa Fe Sport AWD. My engine failed on me regardless of following the recommended services for the car. I frequented the dealership for most of my engine maintenance and when my engine seized on me, they declined to repair or replace my engine under the lifetime warranty due to “maintenance neglect”. I fought and appealed the decision reached by Hyundai as hard as I could, and they still declined repairs. They most certainly did not do much in helping me prevent this situation when I frequently visited for standard mileage maintenance. I was furious. Still owing about a years worth of payments on the car I was left with a car that was no longer running. After exploring my options I found it best to rebuild the engine that was currently in my car. And despite thoroughly going over the common issues and doing my absolute best to prevent them, it is futile. My oil consumption is ridiculous burning about 1 quart every 1000 miles after having replaced many components on the engine to prevent this. I received another faulty knock sensor from Hyundai and ended up putting a 3rd knock sensor (aftermarket this time) in 6 months. And to make things worse, I’m now experiencing another common issue with the AWD feature of the vehicle due to soft alloy parts in the transmission that power the rear wheels. I’m exhausted by this mess. And wish I would have taken the loss and invested in a new car to the best of my abilities as like you, I couldn’t afford to buy a new car without acquiring negative equity by quite a bit. I wish I could burn the thing to the ground in all honesty. Regardless, I’ve already had the engine rebuilt and have dug myself into a ditch fearing that trading it in will not only give me ridiculous payments on a new vehicle but also a loss of the time and money I spent on the rebuild. One things is for certain though. I learned an important lesson about doing my research on specific engines that are experiencing similar issues and will be absolutely certain to never invest in a car that burns oil excessively or in a car manufactured with engines that are known to have similar problems. It’s a shame I had to go through all of this to learn. But I guess that’s just a part of life. Making mistakes.
Sorry to hear you had such horrible problems with your Hyundai. You had the worst case scenario outlined in the class action lawsuit. Perhaps you can look in to that and get some money back for having to pay for engine repairs. Just curious, how many miles did you have on your Santa Fe when the engine broke, and how many miles do you have now? Somebody commented on this video that Hyundai is the Chinese scooter of cars. This is true.
My 2019 sonata start consuming oil at 75k. Now using about 1 extra quart per thousand miles. I change oil every 4 k. The oil looks terrible when i change it.
I’d work on a plan to replace the car ASAP. Even rebuilt it probably won’t last and you’ll be needing an engine again. I’d buy a used Toyota, Honda or Mazda and rest easy.
😅 It's because it was designed to meet EPA requirements. It wasn't designed to live very long. You should have went to a proper engine manufacturer and ask them what type of tolerance is you can run instead of going off of manufacturer's tolerances. 😅 And then taken it to a machine shop and had it set up to run those tolerances. All of the manufacturers are doing. This is not just Hyundai. Most of the time they'll put a low volume low friction oil pump in instead of a proper oil pump. If it's driven off the crank, they'll put the tolerances really really loose which will result in more vibration and steady eating of the engine bearings instead of long engine life. 😅 Pretty much anywhere, there's parasitic drag.
I worked as an oil change tech. I’ve literally never serviced Any Hyundai/Kia GDI engines where a significant amount of oil wasn’t burned off and the oil wasn’t completely sludgy and carbon filled. Even if the customer has done full synthetic oil and a 3k oil change interval. I always advise people not to buy these engines for this reason as well as knowing that they fail so often that getting a replacement is difficult. Thank you for making this in depth video. It was very informative.
You are incorrect! Take a look inside of my 2020 Sorento V6 with almost 80k miles. Mobil 1 synthetic changed every 5k miles with the filter and tier 1 gasoline. Zero issues and Clean. 3rd generation mechanic and engine builder.
Excellent video. This is the best explanation I have found so far to address why Hyundai's engines are breaking down so fast from high oil consumption. I also appreciate the idea to send your oil into the lab for analysis especially when these dealerships are denying warranty claims and making consumers pay out of pocket for these expensive oil consumption tests.
Thanks for watching! Yes, test your oil, gather your own data. The dealer and the manufacturer will do what's best for them, and that may not be the same as doing what's right for you. An oil test from Blackstone labs is only $35 and will tell you a lot about your engine. I'm not sure what their "consumption test" is but you can do that yourself for free. Fill the oil to the correct level on the dipstick. Drive the car. Check the oil. Top off the oil if needed. Look at the bottle and see how much oil it took. Duh.
@@LabCoatPaulGreat video! Do you think having your own test results will positively affect a case with Hyundai when they’re doing their own oil consumption process? I guess my real question is- what do you do with the results given?
I drove my 2017 Kia Soul 1.6 turbo for 137,000 miles without a single problem ever. Changed oil every 5k and used top Shell or Chevron gas only, no exceptions. And i drove it hard. That's the key, I think. Drive it hard to get the sooth out
I own a 2017 Tucson with the 2L engine, got it new in 2018, it now has 82,00 km on it. Since I'm retire i don't drive it much, i did all of the recommended maintenance and oil changes since day 1, which is 2 oil changes per year whether or not i had reached the recommended mileage. The next to last oil change was done at the same time i had all disk and brake pads changed. The last one was done at a Ford dealer though, where my son works as a tech adviser (the guy that greets you at the counter). While the mechanic was working on my car he came up front to the desk and asked me to follow him to have a look at what he had discovered; Turns out the oil pan was full and the oil filter had only been hand tightened. I had lost about 1.5L of oil according to him. So i parked the car in the driveway and drove it for a grand total of 3,000 km. (not 3,000 miles here). Yesterday while i was coming back from a rare one hour and a half drive on the highway, my oil indicator started to come on when i was breaking or turning, i managed to drive it to my local garage (not a Hyundai) dealer but it stalled when i tried to re start it to park it in front on garage door #2. Turns out this time i had lost 2.5L out of the 4L the engine contains and it's not because the dam oil filter was loose this time. Of course my 5 year warranty has expired since may 2023 and i find myself with a seriously damaged engine, of that i am sure. I'm am getting ready to go to the dealer (knowing full well i won't have an appointment before a month at least, winter tire installation season here in good Ol Canuck country). Although i know realize it is a known issue and Hyundai is being sued all over, I am absolutely sure they will do nothing about it, perhaps another oil change at my expense of course. 26 days before Christmas this could not have happened at a worse time, I know from experience I'm heading straight into a David vs Goliath battle here, which i don't expect to win. Great video mate, but seriously who has their engine oil analyze by a lab ? Thanks for sharing nonetheless, have a great day, God bless.
Well you definitely hit the nail on the head with this one. I own a hyundai ix35 here in Australia with the 2 liter Theta engine, which is basically an earlier tucson and yes it burns oill and I am constantly checking the quantity and quality of the oil. For now its running ok but as you said we are all driving ticking time bombs. Very well explained video and thanks for the valuable information.
I'm a Honda technician. We have the same problem with the L15B7/L that's used on the Civic, Accord, and CR-V. They reek of fuel when you change the oil most of the time and they come out thin. We have a TSB about it, but there's not really anything you can do but change the oil sooner to prevent premature wear. Another thing that hurts this cars is being driven only occasionally or being driven softly. Giving your car an Italian tune up is essential for GDI health. Also helps minimize carbon deposits on the intake valves, another big problem with it. All direct injection engines are more prone to oil dilution than port injected cars and they're more likely to burn oil. With any GDI car, I never recommend going past 5000 miles between oil changes under any circumstances. 4000 if turbocharged. I did 4000 mile intervals in my old 2009 Mazdaspeed 3. I have a 2015 Honda Fit myself. I've changed the oil every 3000 miles since I got it and I have 0 noticeable oil consumption or premature wear. My mom also has a 2015 CR-V with the K24W9 engine also with direct injection. I use the same schedule on her car and while hers does burn a bit of oil, it's maybe 1 quart every 4-5000 miles, not that much for a modern car (they all burn a bit of oil nowadays). TL;DR I find that the easiest solution long term is to use shorter oil change intervals. Direct injected engines need MORE frequent oil changes, not less. Doubly so if they have a turbo. Those are very sensitive to oil quality and are quite expensive to replace if they fail. Oil is much cheaper. To give an idea, a turbocharger failed on a 2017 CR-V at the dealership I work at. The cost for us to replace it was $4000. Also clean and/or change your PCV valve often. It usually gets overlooked. It will also keep oil leaks to a minimum. It may also help to run a catch can.
Interesting. I was going to try and get a 2023 civic to replace my shitbox 2018 Tucson. You're saying I'd have the same issues with excessive oil consumption?
One thing i did not recall you mentioning is what your driving style is and the average length of your trips. Short trips often do not allow the oil in your crankcase to reach operating temperature long enough to help evaporate any excess fuel and moisture which are usually blowing by the rings during a cold engine startup.
2017 Kia Sorento 2.0 turbo bought brand new. It started using oil around 90,000 miles about a quart every 2 weeks. Kia did a oil consumption test for about 4 oil changes and said motor needed to be replaced. They didn't replace my motor because I could tell it wasn't brand new and shiny but they did replace something in the motor and told me to use Castrol synthetic blend not full synthetic and they warranted it for 12,000 miles. Have 205,000 miles on it now and been doing my on oil changes since it was fixed at 100,000 miles. Other than that been a great car.
Just purchased mine 7 months ago. At around 3000 the car started running ruff. Checked the oil and it had a strong Gas smell. It now has over 120K miles on the engine and it isn't using any oil.but i dont go pass 3000 miles anymore. Hope to get the Blackstone analyses done soon.
Thanks for watching! I'm curious to see what the lab says about your oil. If you test your oil, please comment and let me know how much fuel contamination you had and how many miles were on the oil.
I own a 2014 Santa Fe sport. I never realized there was an issue because I faithfully had the dealer change my oil every 3000 miles with regular oil. About a year ago I tried the synthetic oil which extended the internal for my oil change. I began to notice that the car would occasionally not start up immediately which it has never done. I decided to check the oil and there was nothing on the dip stick. I immediately added oil to bring it up to full but have had the same issue again after another synthetic oil change. After watching this video I know now I cannot trust the normal oil change frequency nor the quality of the oil. I will try to get back to a 3000 mile interval but I'm not hopeful. I will increase the frequency based on oil level but never more than 3000 miles. Thank you so much for your diligence an extremely detailed and information.
Enjoyed your light approach look at this problem. I have a 2017 2.4 Santa Fe that does not have a turbo but it certainly burns oil. 1 liter per 1000 km. I check it weekly and change it every 5000 km . It has 91000 km on it so that means 18 oil changes, but if I take into account the extra liter every 1000 km that adds another 91 extra liters used. A week ago it went into limp mode so I towed it in and ended up with a decarbonization, plugs (fowled) an injector all for $1000. Now I read consumers reports to see which car I should think about buying or should I spend $4000 to rebuild this when it fails. What a crap shoot. I will give my 2020 Accord to my wife and I will drive the Santa Fe and keep my fingers crossed. PS my Accord has the 1.5 Turbo Earth engine which gas gets in the oil as well.
It's not the DI. Its the piston rings scoring up the cylinder walls. The scoring allows oil to enter the combustion chamber and there it gets burned and pushed out the tail pipe. I've replaced hundreds of the 2.4L and everyone of them has vertical cylinder wall scoring.
Doesn't even have to be scored to have high blow-by. You just need inadequate sealing pressure from the ring pack, which can be caused by a number of issues from bore geometry to distortion to ring tension to end gap. Getting fuel in oil AND oil in combustion would indicate that both the combustion ring and the oil control ring aren't doing their job. That would lead me towards checking the bore geometry. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that free-state geometry has circularity well-controlled. This means it's likely a bore distortion issue. In a soft material like aluminum, especially in such a small application, it would be easy enough for the block to distort when the head is torqued if proper consideration hasn't been given to fastener depth, location, and loading. This often results in an nTH order lobing of the bore that many designers fail to consider. This is especially likely in higher compression applications because bolt load must be increased to maintain sealing pressure at the head gasket. When you mix high loads and high temperature with a material with lower strength (aluminum vs cast iron) and toss in a higher pressure injection not typically seen in the gasoline engine market (not uncommon in diesel though), high blow-by isn't just possible, it's almost a given
@@filippocorti6760 you'd be amazed how much steel will still bend under load, especially when you consider that the amount of distortion needed to cause a leak path is measured in microns
Thanks Paul! Having the same issues with my 2015 hyundai sonata sport 2.4 liter gdi... ugh this thing burns oil like nobody's business! Of course it just passed 100000 miles as well when this all started happening thanks alot hyundai. They said they couldn't do anything about it and to just keep adding oil. I'll be checking out those class action lawsuits you mentioned. Stay safe out there!
The problem with this is people don't realize changing oil on turbo engines is more critical and also many are not changing the pcv valve. My two Elantra 2.0 went 240000miles but I have been working as a mechanic since college since 2009 and I noticed all this on the new engine design changes make maintenance more critical. Look at spark plugs most modern vehicles only do 30000-40000miles on platinum and iridium once marketed as 100000miles on port injected engine's.
I have a 2018 Soul with the turbo 1.6L. It has 94000 miles on it and doesn’t have these problems. I drive 4000 miles between oil changes,mostly highway. This is my third Kia and no problems of any kind.
Of course Paul bought a Korean Hyundai which is essentially the Chinese scooter version of cars. I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. You're the man!
I don't know why everyone says Hyundai is killing it now. 2000s Hyundais are reliable and cheap, but they're not flashy like later ones. Only modern engines of theirs I trust are the 1.8L 4 banger and the 3.3L V6
@@SkylineFTW97 100% agree. The 90s and early 2000s Hyundai used Mitsubishi iron block engines. That's why they were decent. Current trash is sold on that reputation.
@@MirchiBoy a 2001-2006 Elantra is what I would recommend for someone looking for a cheap, reliable, and fuel efficient car if they have less than $3000 to spend. They can be had for under $1500 and parts are common and cheap
@@SkylineFTW97 I had a 96 accent with manual trans that was 15 years old when I bought it and 25 years old when I sold it for $1200 which is no small feat in upstate NY. I've owned toyota's, honda's, nissan's, hyundai/kia's, and a chevy vega. the 96 accent was the best car I ever owned. yes, even the japanese toyota's and honda's need repair. the years you mention were good for hyundai/kia in general.
Oil contamination, small rod bearings, insufficient oil flow to rod bearings, metal shavings in crankshaft oil passages that restrict/block oil flow, low speed pre-ignition that hammers the rod bearings, stuck rings, piston slap, poor pcv valve flow and a few other problems I have probably forgotten or haven't come across yet. The number of problems with this engine is staggering. A lot of these problems can be managed by a knowledgeable and motivated owner, while some cannot. But for the average owner, these engines are a ticking time bomb.
I agree. My plan is to change my oil every 3K miles and send oil to the lab every other oil change to see if any new problems pop up. I should be able to squeeze 100K miles out of it if I watch the ticking time bomb closely.
@@LabCoatPaulthat's what I'm doing on my '19 sonata (2.4L theta II). Bought it new, now drinking oil at 74K at around 1 qt per 1200. BL, I should get 100K at the rate I'm driving, and after that it doesn't owe me anything. I didn't overpay for it, to wit I got it for well under MSRP which I'm still kinda surprised in hindsight they let it go for that in 2019 (ah the good ol days before the Fed stole our future lives with M2 printing) which is why I went with a sonata over some overpriced Honda (mazda outright got out of the full size sedan business altogether so there went that). I am very satisfied with the fuel economy, ride comfort and interior dimensions of my sonata. The frame, suspension, transmission (it did get a software flash when I replaced the fuel pump under warranty and got the bearing knock software subroutine flashed, only work visit required in 75K) and electrics have been problem free, which keeps the dispatch rate high, which is the only thing I care about in a car (they're commodities to me, I'm not a car enthusiast). To wit, I don't need to run oil analysis when I know it's a problem nobody is going to fix. Catch can potato this late in the engine life is also throwing good money after bad. This engine is on palliative care at this point. I'm currently having to add oil in between oil changes given the oil consumption doesn't let me get to a normal 5K interval, so in a way it's like doing oil changes every 2K miles.
@@GonzoT38 The Honda Accord has the same problem now. The L15B7 does the exact same thing and the K20C2 probably does to a lesser extent. Only way to go NA anymore is to get the hybrid. I miss the J35 in those cars. Our shop foreman got a 2017 V6 touring, the last year you could buy a V6 one. They just have fewer problems with normal maintenance (they do have timing belts, but a Honda J series timing belt is one of the easiest timing belts to do on a modern engine. It's 100% a DIY friendly job and you can do it in just 3 or so hours once you know what you're doing)
I have a 2018 Santa Fe Sport with 76k miles on it, having this exact issue. I have only added 22k miles to it the three years I have owned it and have never gone beyond 5,000 miles on an oil change. Always full synthetic. Waiting to hear now if they will replace my engine under their warranty. This is such a sucky situation. No way my car should be burning oil at the rate it has been. I’ll never touch any type of Hyundai or Kia again in my life.
I’m going through the same thing right now. I won’t go through the whole thing, but it got towed in from my house when I check in the morning I had no oil I it . I called the dealer immediately and had it towed into them. Absolutely no lights were on nothing just on a whim. I figured I’m going to check the oil and that’s what I found. I was shocked and now I’m researching the hell out of this.
I’m gonna get mine fixed as best as I can. They should pay for a new engine and I’m researching everything and I’m trading the son of a bitch in as fast as I can for a Toyota
I"m 93,000 for my 2019 hyundai tuscon. Just luckey to catch my oil bone dry 2x! with light coming on for air in tires! turns out both times absolutely zero oil in the car! So far I haven't blow my engine. Bought 2 cases oil at costco and dealer told me i'm burning 1 quart every 1,000 miles! I was planning on driving this car another 50,000-60,000 miles! Not sure what is going to happen but on 12/4 dealer has opening to have the car for full day. They said they would try to get a new engine but no promises! I priced new engines sounds like around 8K.
Have a 2019 with the 2.4. Its burning about 4 quarts per oil change. This will certainly clog your catalytic converter much faster and require regular intake valve and combustion chamber cleanings. Make your changes early and ask for an overfill if you take it somewhere.
Nice Video. However, I know that the user manual does not just instruct the owner to change the oil every 5,000 miles. There are conditions stated in the user manual that indicates when to change the engine oil. For example, if you mostly do short trips, the user manual suggests that you change the oil much earlier than 5,000 miles (around 3,500 miles). You can find this information under the "Maintenance Under Severe Usage Conditions" section of the user manual. (Note that this differs from what is specified under the "Normal Maintenance Schedule" section).
@@LabCoatPaul NOT TRUE! Short trips are considered "severe" because the oil TEMPERATURE doesn't reach high enough to dissipate the condensation (water) in the oil which causes sludge. Driving in town or highway long enough for oil temp to reach normal (about 10miles) WITHOUT shutting the engine off is NOT severe use. Also, idling in cold weather to warm up the engine is BAD because the engine, under no load warms up a LOT slower than DRIVING the car (SLOWLY) after starting it. The condensation remains in the crankcase a LOT longer with the car idling! And don't forget about TOWING (severe use)!
Not enough in this case. I go 7,000 to 10,000 on my Accord. 225,000 miles and all is fine. Changing at 3,000 miles wills been a waist of $2,000!!!!!!!!
I also own 2017 Tucson with 1.6 T-GDi but i live in Europe and here the service interval for oil change is 15000 kilometers/9500 miles... Now after 6 years old/60000miles my engine is burning oil and I was never advised at Hyundai dealership where I did all my service to change oil more often. At last service (3 months ago) I was told that there's almost no oil left in the engine, before I had no clue that this car burns or will burn oil. Now after 3000 miles driven oil level is about 3/4 between low and full on oil stick. A mechanic has adviced me to just add oil when it gets about 1/2 but according to you I should already replace the oil. I don't know what to do with this car, I can't afford a new one currently.
9,500 miles oil change is crazy! If you have a leaking high pressure fuel pump, the last 8,500 miles of that was on bad oil. If the car is working normally, that's 6,500 miles on bad oil. You should never go over 3,000 oil changes in your Hyundai. Theoretically, if you burn all your oil, and you pour in new oil, you're doing more of an oil rotation... You should still change it every 3,000 miles though. Even if the oil overall is experiencing less use, you're still accumulating gasoline in your oil pan an you need to drain it out. Step 1: change your oil and send a sample to the lab. They can tell you how much contamination you have and advise you how often to change your oil. Step 2: keep that oil full. If it burns oil, just keep adding it and don't go over 3,000 mile oil changes. Your car just identifies as a 2 stroke. (burns oil). No big deal. Keep it full and it will continue to run. The catalytic converter will get plugged eventually.
@@LabCoatPaul I do not know about any labs here testing engine oil. From now on I will change oil every 3000 miles. Do you have any reccomendation what oil to use? Hyundai here uses Valvoline 5w30 full synthetic. Thanks for your reply.
2017 1.6T here as well, same color. It started burning oil around 100k miles, perfect timing since thats the warranty! It needs about 0.75 quarts every 1000 miles. Unlike my lexus gx470 with 233k miles which has new looking oil after 7000 miles and no addition needed, the Hyundai oil is black after 500 miles. I do the CRC intake cleaning every oil change and have tried the Castrol Edge GDI oil, which is expensive. Hasn't helped. I may go to cheaper Mobil 1 or Valvoline and just change every 3k miles instead of 5k.
Very good presentation and pictorial presentation on the insanity of GDI. I drive a 2.2L HHR. It continues to average 24 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road as it approaches 120K miles. Oil consumption is negligible. For trips and Sunday driving we also have a 2002 MBZ E320. It continues to average 22 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road. LIkewise the oil consumption is negligible as it approaches 100K miles. Both cars have multi port injection and have never failed an annual emissions inspection. Not all "modern" cars burn a lot of oil...just the ones with GDI. The industry should be allowed to go back to MPI.
I have a 2017 hyundai sonata 2.4lt I believe. I do change my oil between 2,500 and 3,000mi because I do not want to have an oil consumption problem. So far at a 125,000mi I haven't had a issue but I am worried it may happen soon. I read the article on Google but it didn't say what you did to fix the issue. I always changed my oil at 5,000mi on my older vehicles but decided with the weaker rings I would not risk it. I have always gotten at 350,000mi on my vehicles before something would start acting up and I'd junk it due to high mileage and not wanting to sink money into something that can't obviously last much longer. I am hoping to get my $40,000 out of this vehicle before having to replace it. Vehicles cost way to much now days and lose their value to quickly to not get the maximum amount of use out of them in my opinion. If I'm paying 40k for a vehicle I expect to get 350k miles out of it because selling it a few years later is like throwing money away. I need transportation and yes I get the luxury model so I can drive in comfort because it's not much more then the base model but I really don't care about being the coolest on the block. Obviously if I did I would had spent twice as much instead of a hyundai lol. Anyway I am hoping their is an easy fix if this happens.
You're doing the right thing by changing your oil often. This problem can be prevented, but fixing it once the engine is ruined requires a new engine. Make sure you test your oil. If your high pressure fuel pump has a leak, those 2,500 mile oil changes won't save you!
Should I replace my high pressure fuel pump just to be safe? I mean I'm at 126,000mi and it may be better to just be safe. It seems like it would be easy to replace. It can't be that expensive and I'd rather be safe then sorry. I would like to get over 300,000mi out of this vehicle. Personally I think $40,000 is outrageous for a vehicle. Maybe I'm just cheap but paying that much money for something that loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot especially when you include maintenance, taxes, insurance, and is something that could leave you stranded at a moments notice.
This video is so underrated. I have ordered my oil test kit and im sending it to the lab to see if I have contamination however my car is at 330000 KM lol, its a kia sorento
Did you follow Blackstone's instructions for getting a sample properly? IIRC, you're supposed to 1) get the oil good and hot - minimum 15 miles drive before taking the sample and 2) get your simple from the 'middle' of the stream of oil coming from the pan. You show pouring from an intermediate container, and mention in the comments below about most of your driving being < 4 miles, which won't give you the most accurate results (though I guess if you are always doing < 4 miles, it's somewhat more representative of your typical driving conditions... which are not good. You're actually a good use case for electric if you're always doing such short trips).
2011-2019 GDI engines fail because of gasoline mixing with engine oil especially when doing mostly short trips - gasoline doesn't have time to evaporate. Cruising near 1000rpm adds to the problem (low oil pressure at the connecting rod bearings)
I'm hoping the catch can I put on my 2020 Palisade helps reduce the fuel dilution. I have been changing the oil right around the 3000-3200 mile mark since I bought it and I don't see any loss of oil. I've done one GDI cleaning with the Berryman cleaner so far at around 20,000 miles.
The catch can will keep your intake valves slightly cleaner. I doubt it will have any effect on fuel dilution in the oil. 3,000 mile oil changes are a great idea if your high pressure fuel pump doesn't leak. Send a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs to find out if anything is wrong.
2Gr -fks has a serious oil leak problem where the head, block and timing cover seals intersect. Generally get larger after 100,000k. As it ages it drips oill onto a smokey exhaust. Fixing it usually is an engine R/R and cover reseal. Figure $4000.
I have a had a 2011 optima since new. So far it has 165,000km on it. Runs good and has 170+ compression on all 4cyl. I change every 4-5k with 5-20 full synth only. Still gets 40-45mpg on the highway. I assume I am one of the lucky ones?? I haven’t noticed any gas smell in the oil yet but maybey I should look at dumping it soon if this is gonna happen. And I am pretty sure it’s not worth repairing if that happens. I have a lifetime warranty they sent me but from what I hear it may be impossible to get them to replace it. Just a bit worried now lol.
It sounds like your car runs great! Instead of worrying, send a sample of your oil to the lab and you'll know for sure what's going on with your engine.
What kind of driving were you doing ? Severe service will contaminate the oil much faster as engine doesnt warm up fully to burn off fuel in oil . How long the engine runs after its fully warmed up plays a factor also
Paul, thx for the help. I have a santa fe 2016 that is burning oil. 78K miles. what oil wait would you recommend to use such as 10w 30 or ?? Also since burning oil does it make send to go to regular oil if changing every 3K vs synthetic every 5K? Curious what your take would be on just using the regular oil? Hyundai dealer want me to spend $450 for a decarb? curious if you think that is worth doing or changing the PVC value is worth doing or will either make a difference? Sounds like you just have to keep changing the oil about every 3K or keep topping off till 5K. Any other ideas how to curb the oil consumption? Thx Paul M.
Unfortunately, once you have oil consumption, the damage is already done. Change your oil and send a sample to Blackstone labs. Follow the lab's recommendations on oil change interval. I recommend using whatever oil viscosity is written on the oil fill cap. On my Tucson it's 5W-30. Since you won't benefit from the longer life of synthetic oil, you might as well use the cheapest stuff you can find (as long as it has the correct SAE rating for your car). If your car has a turbo, it may still be better to use synthetic oil. As for the GDI carbon cleaning: yes, do it. clean intake valves are very important for the engine to run right. $450 is not the right price for GDI cleaning. Did they recommend a service package that includes other things? I recently paid $671 for my 30K mile service, but it included: oil change, transmission flush, coolant flush, fuel induction cleaning (GDI cleaning), tire rotation, brake fluid flush, and inspect a bunch of stuff. They didn't give me a labor breakdown for the GDI service, but the chemicals were $39. I'm guessing the GDI service alone is around $100 total. And yes, clean the PCV valve. it's easy. You can do it yourself.
I don't blame hardworking folks who dare NOT touch any Kia or Hyundai vehicle. With the massive bill they shouldered from the engine failure fiasco plus other major safety recalls, guess who will foot the bill eventually?
I'm having issues with my tucson 2018 . My mechanic told me the engine is consuming excessive oil. I have done all my maintenance roughly around 3 to 4k miles. I have an appointment this Saturday with the dealership and see what happens .
Sounds like a KIA / Hyundai alright. To be fair.. we have a 2020 RAV4 and it’s the biggest piece we’ve ever owned. It’s been to the shop 6 times for various issues most of them related to the Auto start stop feature causing electrical problems AND the roof rails leaking into the interior of the vehicle. And it has less than 15K miles. Meanwhile my Chevy Bolt (seriously a GM product) has yet to have any issues. Oh well besides the battery that may burn the house down. I guess I’ll stick with my Chinese Scooters instead. ❤
Quality control? hahaha no it's customer service problem now! It's too bad Toyota decided to make the RAV4 junky. Some manufacturers (Hyundai for sure) recommend parking the car in the street in case it catches on fire.
And that crazy nut of a CEO at GM is cutting the Bolt! 95% of GM's EV business, and their cutting it to add to their EV truck line - including the Hummer. Since the beginning of the year, GM has sold one (yes 1) Hummer EV.
The cost of your oil analysis would almost pay for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 synthetic oil (Walmart ) and a filter from the dealer. My advice to friends who buy Korean or European cars : Don't keep them past warranty. My next vehicle will most likely use the Camry hybrid drive train. (Rav4, Vensa, Crown, similar Lexus (probably used)). It has GDI but also has port injection. No turbos, efficiency tuned, no accessory belts. Electric car with gasoline assist. No start stop needed. Engine only runs when it is needed (and to warm up).
Ok, so every 3k. Got it, change oil and check pvc regularly. So, do I still need/ should use synthetic oil or hybrid or conventional ok because so frequent? Or? Thank you for doing these
Synthetic oil is recommended for turbocharged engines because it can handle higher temperatures than regular oil and the viscosity will be more consistent. I buy Kirkland brand oil at Costco and it's about 1/2 price compared the auto parts stores. It still meets the same API specifications. Cheaper oil is not worse than expensive oil. I recommend sending a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs. 3,000 mile oil changes are good IF the high pressure fuel pump isn't leaking. If it leaks like mine did, even the 3,000 mile oil changes will result in a blown engine. That's why you need to test the oil.
Yes, the GDI version of the Lambda 2 engine was introduced in 2011. Most GDI engines have a tendency to get gas in the oil. Test your oil and change it often.
Thanks for sharing your findings. Could one of the consequences of driving one of these vehicles (I have a 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with the Theta II engine, another of Hyundai's gasoline direct engines) lead to pitting of the pistons and cylinder wall wear? That's the struggle I am currently facing but, since it's not rod bearing failure, it's not covered by Hyundai's extended warranty. I certainly was not changing my oil ever 1,000 miles, so who knows how long I may have been operating it with potentially contaminated oil 😔 Thanks again.
Excellent video. IMO, engines using GDI should still have some percentage of its fuel charge delivered using port injection, partly to wash all the crud past the intake valve to be burned in the combustion chamber. The question I have is your driving mix. My thinking is longer duration drives (>30 min) periodically, get oil >>200F, hot enough to evaporate the gasoline from the oil and have it burned after passing through the PCV valve. Is this a bad assumption?
How come a large part of the Diesel Engines do not have this problem since they also use DI since like forever? Also some newer VAG TSI engines seem to be pretty reliable for up to 200.000 km. I'm thinking quality of the parts and build is to blame also here
So im planning on buying one. a 2016 model. Is there a way besides changing oil frequently to prevent an engine from blowing? And what if the engine is starting knocking? What can you do to repair this?
Frequent oil changes are the only way to prevent excessive wear. Change the oil and send a sample to the lab, like I did. If the high pressure fuel pump leaks, even 3,000 miles is not often enough. If you have a knock, that engine is already ruined and needs to be replaced. You could get a few more miles out of a knocking engine by running a higher viscosity oil, like 20w-50, but don't do it to an engine that is working normally.
@@LabCoatPaul that's crazy to keep changing oil every 3000 miles tho hahah. There needs to be some kind of fix voor this... So if the engine in knocking, changing the pistonrings and bearings won't be enough? I cannot believe this. I have an older BMW I change the oil every 10.000 miles or so and I find that often. Now I want to get a newer car and I need to change is more often hahahah am I dreaming
@@LabCoatPaul if the engine is running without tikking, what kind of oil is good to out in? I live in the Netherlands. In the winter it can get somewhat cold. Around 0 to -10 Celsius and in the summer around 20/30 Celsius (30+ only when there is a serious heat wave)
@@007kwaku Many modern engines with gasoline direct injection have oil contamination issues. It's true newer engines require more frequent oil changes than older ones. For example, I sent oil to Blackstone labs from a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles. The report said normal wear metals, 0 fuel contamination, 6,500 mile oil changes are ok. 10,000 miles oil changes are not good for any engine. Next time you change your oil in the BMW, send a sample to the lab. If you pay extra for the TBN test, they can measure the levels of additives remaining in the oil and give you an oil change interval recommendation. If an engine doesn't contaminate the oil (like my Hyundai), 6,000 mile oil changes are ok.
Needless to say, I have learned a lot. Thank you unfortunately be both me and my partner have Hundaes I have a Senada and my partner has a Tucson. Mine is burning about 2 quarts every thousand miles.
Turbocharged direct injection engines, whether gasoline or diesel, are fuel diluters. That's what they do. The problem can be mitigated by boiling the lighter fuel components out of the crankcase oil by taking frequent extended longer trips at highway speeds. If this is your normal driving routine, then fine. However if you drive predominantly shorter trips, especially in cold weather, a turbo DI engine is not a good choice.
Definitely agree. My 2.4 naturally aspirated is pretty much a road trip vehicle. 67k miles and no oil consumption. Also installed a catch can, works well, mostly moisture bit of oil.
So I own a 2014 Hyundai Accent 5dr with the 1.6 L GDI. I've owned this car from new. No real problems with this car in it's lifetime, aside from effects of driving on crappy roads and rusted out brakes. Always changed the oil twice a year, added fuel injector cleaner to the tank periodically, etc. I just passed 100k, and it started to burn/consume oil with ferocity - ~1L per 1000 km. I just changed the PCV valve, and am trying a seafoam treatment on the oil prior to my next oil change. Your video is a lot to wade through. Is there a fix, other than super frequent oil changes? It's north of $80 CAD + taxes at the least expensive place I can take it, and that's for conventional oil.
Only a little bit. Going to 10w-30 is ok, but any thicker than that and the oil won't flow properly through the bearings in the engine. You need to send a sample of your oil to Blackstone-labs to see how much fuel contamination you have. If they recommend 3,000 mile oil changes, that's ok. If it's lower than that, you probably have a leaking high pressure fuel pump or some other problem.
You need a good oil spec for direct injection engines, the volkswagen approved 504.00 507.00 spec oils are the most stringent oil spec on the market, its not cheap but its the best oil for direct injection. You need low saps formula to help reduce carbon build up on the intake valves
But are the other manufacturer's (Audi, BMW, Buick, Chrysler-Jeep Wrangler, Ford, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Saab, Subaru, and Volkswagen) GDI engines having the same problem?
Every manual have clear statement that you should follow the maintenance under SEVERE usage conditions (change the oil twice as often) if the vehicle has not been driven under ideal conditions.
My 2 L turbo, (2-13), has a built in oil separator, I did add a catch can a few years ago. It doesn't catch much oil, but I do get sh*tty brown water in it. Better in the can than the back of the valves.
You can also use a "low volatility" oil that generates less oil vapors. Currently the lowest volatility oil on the market is Pennzoil "ultra platinum full synthetic", it's even better for GDI engines than Amsoil!
I have a 2016 kia soul with the 1.6l with 230k miles on it, all I have had to do is change the alternator, do you think doing this will be worth it on so many miles it still seems good to me
I have seen reviews where they said the oil passage ways when made were drilled but not cleaned out, leaving metal shavings that would clog the oil passages. Leading to failure. Happened with engines made in USA Alabama. Should sue that plant. They had plenty of time to fix the issue. They must be making more money by providing extra engines.
Hyundai denied my engine replacement even though it was still within the warranty mileage and time. My dealership was able to get the extended warranty coverage to cover it. My car being only 2 years old and needing a new engine is pretty deviating when the factory works hard on not helping customers under warranty. All this being said, my new motor has big engine time valve tucking. Sounds like it already is going to blow. This happed a week after having the new engine installed. So basically, it will soon have a useless brick in the driveway. Buy Toyota or Nissan. I will. 😢
Sorry to hear that. Make sure to document all your engine problems with videos and paperwork from when you took it to the dealer. Sometimes dealers will replace your engine with a cheaper used engine that might also have stuff wrong with it.
Couple of questions because I own this car too. 1. What brand of Oil do you recommend using for this car? 2. 5W20 or 5W30? 3. Do you recommend the Fuel injection cleaning from dealership? 4. Do you recommend adding ATS oil and fuel cleaner (like scotty does)?
I own a Santa Fe with the 2.4 and my only recommendation is to trade in the vehicle for a Toyota while prices are still high. I use 10K mile Mobil1 full synthetic oil in all my vehicles, except the Hyundai. It burnt it within 3K miles, so I switched to the cheaper super tech full synthetic and I now do 3K mile oil changes. At least in my car, after changing the PCV valve every 10K miles and turning on eco mode has helped reduce oil consumption. Good luck.
I have tucson 2020 and am having the same issue. It was such a big mistake that I got tucson zeo meter ,first and last time mistake ever....now no one is covering the manufacturer fault where everyone knows the truth...
They explained nothing, but the answer to that question is simple. The high pressure fuel pump sits on top of the valve cover and is driven by the camshaft. It has 2,000 psi of fuel pressure on one side, and almost no pressure inside the valve cover. It's pretty easy for an O-ring inside the pump to leak a bit and dump gas straight into the valve cover.
@LabCoatPaul Thanks, I didn't know the layout and couldn't see any reason for there to be leak path, but that clears it up. I've got a 2020 Honda CRV and do 3,000 mile synthetic oil changes, but have noted a gasoline smell to the used oil. I'm thinking that I'll need to have the oil analyzed the same way you did and check to see what kind of PCV system Honda uses on it. Great video and thanks again!
I wish I would have seen this video before I got rid of my 2017 Sonata. It was burning an insane amount of oil after 115k miles, I think around 3-4qts every 1k miles. I'm really curious how badly diluted the oil was with fuel after 1k miles, I'd go to add more oil and my dipstick REEKED of fuel. I'll never buy another GDI engine or Hyundai again, I drive a lot and I need something reliable.
Good advice! These newer engines run better with higher octane. With low octane they might run rich, retard timing, or limit boost to prevent knocking. Running rich could lead to extra gas in the oil.
I've heard from other youtube videos that Ford has fuel contamination issues on their GDI engines. I'm sure a lot of car manufacturers get gas in the oil. The only way to know for sure is send a sample of your oil to the lab.
@@LabCoatPaul Thanks. Gas in the oil makes it bad not to change the oil on time. Also, the intervals manufacturers recommend are thus too long. Its best to go by the severe use recommendation for OCIs.
The Genesis Coupe last model year was 2016 (3.8 GDI engine). The 2.0T engine was discontinued in 2014. There is no 2017/18 model for the Genesis Coupe. Might want to correct that in you discription.
I have a 2017 tucson as well my oil is being consumed have to add oil abouy every 2 days but since April I keep having a misfire for my piston 1 and 2 have to continously replace spark plugs and coils any solutions ?? Please help it's my only vehical I've paid mechanic to do a check and they thought it was gasket cover replaced that and it still keeps happening
A valve cover gasket will leak oil on top of the spark plug. If you have oil on the part that goes in the cylinder, you have bigger problems like leaking valve seals or bad piston rings. I recommend doing a compression test on your engine.
I have 2016 hyundai tucson, same issue, had to order off ebay oem o2 sensor and oem coil pack, then I added Dual oil catch cans, one for pcv and the other for crankcase, add breathers on the output of catch cans, now car drives a whole lot better, oil burns but not as bad anymore, also I did a carbon clean before adding the 2 oil catch cans
I think the problem with your car actually started with the original owner, which brings up the importance of checking a vehicle's maintenance history. I think you don't have a GDI problem so much as you have a ring wear problem from poor break in and a long time from when it was new til when it got it's first oil change. I would check compression on that engine and also pull the Carfax to see how long that first oil change took. Also, how long are each of your drive cycles? Do you do a lot of short trips?
I bought my car used, with 28,000 miles. It was a lease return from California. I don't know how often the oil changes were done. I'll assume the person didn't care about the car. There were other signs of abuse like paint damage from multiple spilled sodas on the roof and candy under the seats. My first oil test showed 6% of the oil is gasoline. The limit is 2% before the viscosity of the oil is compromised. Older cars with port fuel injection have zero fuel in the oil. One of my friends just did a test on his 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles and there was no gas in the oil. After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, my oil contamination dropped from 6% to 2% over a 3,000 mile oil change, confirming the fuel pump was leaking into the oil. GDI operates at 2,000 psi and the pump sits on top of the valve cover and is driven by the camshaft. If it leaks even a little bit, the gas will go straight into the oil by the camshaft. Also, the gas is sprayed into the cylinder at high pressure, and there's a turbo. All those factors increase the chances of fuel getting past the piston rings. It's possible my engine has some cylinder and ring wear, however, it does not burn oil. After 3,000 miles, the dipstick indicates FULL. Perhaps even a little more, with the gas in there. I start with 4.5 quarts, and I end up with 4.59 quarts of oil + gas in the oil pan. Blackstone labs said there was a serious problem that needed repairs with the first test. After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, they advised to keep an eye on the oil contamination, and not to go over 3,000 miles on the oil. My driving habits are severe duty. I rarely drive the car more than 4 miles at a time. Going to work is 15 minutes, 4 miles. Going to the store is 5 minutes, 1 mile. The engine doesn't get a chance to warm up, and fuel doesn't get a chance to evaporate out of the crankcase. It's reasonable to do 3,000 mile oil changes with that kind of driving, so I don't think my car is broken. But If I blindly follow 5,000 mile oil changes, it will burn tons of oil by the time I get 80K miles on the car.
The issue is gasoline contaminating the oil, so my guess is the better oil would get contaminated the same amount and would not improve anything... Unless the Amsoil makes the piston rings seal better or something that would reduce gasoline getting into the crankcase. It's worth testing.
I think mine is lasting so long BECAUSE i never did any oil change, I just keep adding oil and remove the filter every 10k because it has burned so much oil from day 1 I bought it at mile 1 its now close to 240K miles
Currently own a 2017 Santa Fe Sport AWD. My engine failed on me regardless of following the recommended services for the car. I frequented the dealership for most of my engine maintenance and when my engine seized on me, they declined to repair or replace my engine under the lifetime warranty due to “maintenance neglect”. I fought and appealed the decision reached by Hyundai as hard as I could, and they still declined repairs. They most certainly did not do much in helping me prevent this situation when I frequently visited for standard mileage maintenance. I was furious. Still owing about a years worth of payments on the car I was left with a car that was no longer running. After exploring my options I found it best to rebuild the engine that was currently in my car. And despite thoroughly going over the common issues and doing my absolute best to prevent them, it is futile. My oil consumption is ridiculous burning about 1 quart every 1000 miles after having replaced many components on the engine to prevent this. I received another faulty knock sensor from Hyundai and ended up putting a 3rd knock sensor (aftermarket this time) in 6 months. And to make things worse, I’m now experiencing another common issue with the AWD feature of the vehicle due to soft alloy parts in the transmission that power the rear wheels. I’m exhausted by this mess. And wish I would have taken the loss and invested in a new car to the best of my abilities as like you, I couldn’t afford to buy a new car without acquiring negative equity by quite a bit. I wish I could burn the thing to the ground in all honesty. Regardless, I’ve already had the engine rebuilt and have dug myself into a ditch fearing that trading it in will not only give me ridiculous payments on a new vehicle but also a loss of the time and money I spent on the rebuild. One things is for certain though. I learned an important lesson about doing my research on specific engines that are experiencing similar issues and will be absolutely certain to never invest in a car that burns oil excessively or in a car manufactured with engines that are known to have similar problems. It’s a shame I had to go through all of this to learn. But I guess that’s just a part of life. Making mistakes.
Sorry to hear you had such horrible problems with your Hyundai. You had the worst case scenario outlined in the class action lawsuit. Perhaps you can look in to that and get some money back for having to pay for engine repairs.
Just curious, how many miles did you have on your Santa Fe when the engine broke, and how many miles do you have now?
Somebody commented on this video that Hyundai is the Chinese scooter of cars. This is true.
I'm positive you could have found multiple attorneys willing to sue Hyundai on contingency for you. Probably still can.
My 2019 sonata start consuming oil at 75k. Now using about 1 extra quart per thousand miles. I change oil every 4 k. The oil looks terrible when i change it.
I’d work on a plan to replace the car ASAP. Even rebuilt it probably won’t last and you’ll be needing an engine again. I’d buy a used Toyota, Honda or Mazda and rest easy.
😅 It's because it was designed to meet EPA requirements. It wasn't designed to live very long. You should have went to a proper engine manufacturer and ask them what type of tolerance is you can run instead of going off of manufacturer's tolerances. 😅 And then taken it to a machine shop and had it set up to run those tolerances.
All of the manufacturers are doing. This is not just Hyundai. Most of the time they'll put a low volume low friction oil pump in instead of a proper oil pump. If it's driven off the crank, they'll put the tolerances really really loose which will result in more vibration and steady eating of the engine bearings instead of long engine life. 😅
Pretty much anywhere, there's parasitic drag.
I worked as an oil change tech. I’ve literally never serviced Any Hyundai/Kia GDI engines where a significant amount of oil wasn’t burned off and the oil wasn’t completely sludgy and carbon filled. Even if the customer has done full synthetic oil and a 3k oil change interval. I always advise people not to buy these engines for this reason as well as knowing that they fail so often that getting a replacement is difficult. Thank you for making this in depth video. It was very informative.
The customer may be going over the oil change intervals. It can be a leaky fuel injector like in this video. Also, it could be faulty piston rings.
You are incorrect! Take a look inside of my 2020 Sorento V6 with almost 80k miles. Mobil 1 synthetic changed every 5k miles with the filter and tier 1 gasoline. Zero issues and Clean. 3rd generation mechanic and engine builder.
@@owenhill-vf7ko Do you have a GDI engine?
Excellent video. This is the best explanation I have found so far to address why Hyundai's engines are breaking down so fast from high oil consumption. I also appreciate the idea to send your oil into the lab for analysis especially when these dealerships are denying warranty claims and making consumers pay out of pocket for these expensive oil consumption tests.
Thanks for watching! Yes, test your oil, gather your own data. The dealer and the manufacturer will do what's best for them, and that may not be the same as doing what's right for you. An oil test from Blackstone labs is only $35 and will tell you a lot about your engine.
I'm not sure what their "consumption test" is but you can do that yourself for free. Fill the oil to the correct level on the dipstick. Drive the car. Check the oil. Top off the oil if needed. Look at the bottle and see how much oil it took. Duh.
@@LabCoatPaulGreat video! Do you think having your own test results will positively affect a case with Hyundai when they’re doing their own oil consumption process? I guess my real question is- what do you do with the results given?
I drove my 2017 Kia Soul 1.6 turbo for 137,000 miles without a single problem ever. Changed oil every 5k and used top Shell or Chevron gas only, no exceptions. And i drove it hard.
That's the key, I think. Drive it hard to get the sooth out
I agree. The Santa Fe needs to be driven hard, and one mustn't shy away from pressing the pedal.
I own a 2017 Tucson with the 2L engine, got it new in 2018, it now has 82,00 km on it. Since I'm retire i don't drive it much, i did all of the recommended maintenance and oil changes since day 1, which is 2 oil changes per year whether or not i had reached the recommended mileage. The next to last oil change was done at the same time i had all disk and brake pads changed. The last one was done at a Ford dealer though, where my son works as a tech adviser (the guy that greets you at the counter). While the mechanic was working on my car he came up front to the desk and asked me to follow him to have a look at what he had discovered; Turns out the oil pan was full and the oil filter had only been hand tightened. I had lost about 1.5L of oil according to him. So i parked the car in the driveway and drove it for a grand total of 3,000 km. (not 3,000 miles here). Yesterday while i was coming back from a rare one hour and a half drive on the highway, my oil indicator started to come on when i was breaking or turning, i managed to drive it to my local garage (not a Hyundai) dealer but it stalled when i tried to re start it to park it in front on garage door #2. Turns out this time i had lost 2.5L out of the 4L the engine contains and it's not because the dam oil filter was loose this time. Of course my 5 year warranty has expired since may 2023 and i find myself with a seriously damaged engine, of that i am sure. I'm am getting ready to go to the dealer (knowing full well i won't have an appointment before a month at least, winter tire installation season here in good Ol Canuck country). Although i know realize it is a known issue and Hyundai is being sued all over, I am absolutely sure they will do nothing about it, perhaps another oil change at my expense of course. 26 days before Christmas this could not have happened at a worse time, I know from experience I'm heading straight into a David vs Goliath battle here, which i don't expect to win. Great video mate, but seriously who has their engine oil analyze by a lab ? Thanks for sharing nonetheless, have a great day, God bless.
Your video has been the best I found which goes into detail as well as problems. Thank you very much
Well you definitely hit the nail on the head with this one. I own a hyundai ix35 here in Australia with the 2 liter Theta engine, which is basically an earlier tucson and yes it burns oill and I am constantly checking the quantity and quality of the oil. For now its running ok but as you said we are all driving ticking time bombs. Very well explained video and thanks for the valuable information.
Use valvoline restore and protect oil
It's bizarre how I came to this channel watching you rebuild Chinese scooters but now I know why my Hyundai accent is always low on oil.
I'm a Honda technician. We have the same problem with the L15B7/L that's used on the Civic, Accord, and CR-V. They reek of fuel when you change the oil most of the time and they come out thin. We have a TSB about it, but there's not really anything you can do but change the oil sooner to prevent premature wear. Another thing that hurts this cars is being driven only occasionally or being driven softly. Giving your car an Italian tune up is essential for GDI health. Also helps minimize carbon deposits on the intake valves, another big problem with it.
All direct injection engines are more prone to oil dilution than port injected cars and they're more likely to burn oil.
With any GDI car, I never recommend going past 5000 miles between oil changes under any circumstances. 4000 if turbocharged. I did 4000 mile intervals in my old 2009 Mazdaspeed 3.
I have a 2015 Honda Fit myself. I've changed the oil every 3000 miles since I got it and I have 0 noticeable oil consumption or premature wear. My mom also has a 2015 CR-V with the K24W9 engine also with direct injection. I use the same schedule on her car and while hers does burn a bit of oil, it's maybe 1 quart every 4-5000 miles, not that much for a modern car (they all burn a bit of oil nowadays).
TL;DR I find that the easiest solution long term is to use shorter oil change intervals. Direct injected engines need MORE frequent oil changes, not less. Doubly so if they have a turbo. Those are very sensitive to oil quality and are quite expensive to replace if they fail. Oil is much cheaper. To give an idea, a turbocharger failed on a 2017 CR-V at the dealership I work at. The cost for us to replace it was $4000.
Also clean and/or change your PCV valve often. It usually gets overlooked. It will also keep oil leaks to a minimum. It may also help to run a catch can.
Honda/Toyota with port injection last forever. The newer GDI/Port still need shorter engine oil changes
Interesting. I was going to try and get a 2023 civic to replace my shitbox 2018 Tucson. You're saying I'd have the same issues with excessive oil consumption?
@@theindooroutdoorsman The base 2.0 won't since it still uses port injection.
@@SkylineFTW97 Good. I thought it was back to the drawing board for what car to change to.
@@theindooroutdoorsman Even if you did get the 1.5, you'd be fine if you did the 3000 mile oil changes.
I work for a Hyundai Dealership. Cars come in on a regular basis for tons of repairs and NEW ENGINES. Hense "WE HAVE THE BEST 5 YEAR WARRANTY EVER".
I emptied 3 bottles of Berryman's B-12 Chemtool into my nearly empty gas tank and, voila!...No more oil-burning problem in my 2012 KIA Sorento!!!!
One thing i did not recall you mentioning is what your driving style is and the average length of your trips. Short trips often do not allow the oil in your crankcase to reach operating temperature long enough to help evaporate any excess fuel and moisture which are usually blowing by the rings during a cold engine startup.
It's short trips only for me, so my oil gets contaminated very quickly.
2017 Kia Sorento 2.0 turbo bought brand new.
It started using oil around 90,000 miles about a quart every 2 weeks. Kia did a oil consumption test for about 4 oil changes and said motor needed to be replaced. They didn't replace my motor because I could tell it wasn't brand new and shiny but they did replace something in the motor and told me to use Castrol synthetic blend not full synthetic and they warranted it for 12,000 miles. Have 205,000 miles on it now and been doing my on oil changes since it was fixed at 100,000 miles. Other than that been a great car.
2016 Kia Sorento not 2017 and oil changes every 5000 miles.
Just purchased mine 7 months ago. At around 3000 the car started running ruff. Checked the oil and it had a strong Gas smell. It now has over 120K miles on the engine and it isn't using any oil.but i dont go pass 3000 miles anymore. Hope to get the Blackstone analyses done soon.
Thanks for watching! I'm curious to see what the lab says about your oil. If you test your oil, please comment and let me know how much fuel contamination you had and how many miles were on the oil.
Great info I’m having this same issue with my 2017 Santa Fe .
exceptional production value in this video. great job!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I own a 2014 Santa Fe sport. I never realized there was an issue because I faithfully had the dealer change my oil every 3000 miles with regular oil. About a year ago I tried the synthetic oil which extended the internal for my oil change. I began to notice that the car would occasionally not start up immediately which it has never done. I decided to check the oil and there was nothing on the dip stick. I immediately added oil to bring it up to full but have had the same issue again after another synthetic oil change. After watching this video I know now I cannot trust the normal oil change frequency nor the quality of the oil. I will try to get back to a 3000 mile interval but I'm not hopeful. I will increase the frequency based on oil level but never more than 3000 miles. Thank you so much for your diligence an extremely detailed and information.
Use valvoline restore and protect oil
Enjoyed your light approach look at this problem. I have a 2017 2.4 Santa Fe that does not have a turbo but it certainly burns oil. 1 liter per 1000 km. I check it weekly and change it every 5000 km . It has 91000 km on it so that means 18 oil changes, but if I take into account the extra liter every 1000 km that adds another 91 extra liters used. A week ago it went into limp mode so I towed it in and ended up with a decarbonization, plugs (fowled) an injector all for $1000. Now I read consumers reports to see which car I should think about buying or should I spend $4000 to rebuild this when it fails. What a crap shoot. I will give my 2020 Accord to my wife and I will drive the Santa Fe and keep my fingers crossed. PS my Accord has the 1.5 Turbo Earth engine which gas gets in the oil as well.
It's not the DI. Its the piston rings scoring up the cylinder walls. The scoring allows oil to enter the combustion chamber and there it gets burned and pushed out the tail pipe. I've replaced hundreds of the 2.4L and everyone of them has vertical cylinder wall scoring.
Doesn't even have to be scored to have high blow-by. You just need inadequate sealing pressure from the ring pack, which can be caused by a number of issues from bore geometry to distortion to ring tension to end gap. Getting fuel in oil AND oil in combustion would indicate that both the combustion ring and the oil control ring aren't doing their job. That would lead me towards checking the bore geometry. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that free-state geometry has circularity well-controlled. This means it's likely a bore distortion issue. In a soft material like aluminum, especially in such a small application, it would be easy enough for the block to distort when the head is torqued if proper consideration hasn't been given to fastener depth, location, and loading. This often results in an nTH order lobing of the bore that many designers fail to consider. This is especially likely in higher compression applications because bolt load must be increased to maintain sealing pressure at the head gasket. When you mix high loads and high temperature with a material with lower strength (aluminum vs cast iron) and toss in a higher pressure injection not typically seen in the gasoline engine market (not uncommon in diesel though), high blow-by isn't just possible, it's almost a given
The scoring is from the gas diluted oil?
@@marcb2056 Don't they always use steel sleeves in the bore?
@@filippocorti6760 you'd be amazed how much steel will still bend under load, especially when you consider that the amount of distortion needed to cause a leak path is measured in microns
@@marcb2056 Aren't all GDI engines higher pressure injection?
Thanks Paul! Having the same issues with my 2015 hyundai sonata sport 2.4 liter gdi... ugh this thing burns oil like nobody's business! Of course it just passed 100000 miles as well when this all started happening thanks alot hyundai. They said they couldn't do anything about it and to just keep adding oil. I'll be checking out those class action lawsuits you mentioned. Stay safe out there!
Use valvoline restore and protect oil
Excellent video & explanation of the issues with these cars.
The problem with this is people don't realize changing oil on turbo engines is more critical and also many are not changing the pcv valve. My two Elantra 2.0 went 240000miles but I have been working as a mechanic since college since 2009 and I noticed all this on the new engine design changes make maintenance more critical. Look at spark plugs most modern vehicles only do 30000-40000miles on platinum and iridium once marketed as 100000miles on port injected engine's.
Up here in Winnipeg Canada. My 2013 accent leaks and I really hope my 2023 santa fe is not leaking.
I have a 2018 Soul with the turbo 1.6L. It has 94000 miles on it and doesn’t have these problems. I drive 4000 miles between oil changes,mostly highway. This is my third Kia and no problems of any kind.
Of course Paul bought a Korean Hyundai which is essentially the Chinese scooter version of cars. I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. You're the man!
I don't know why everyone says Hyundai is killing it now. 2000s Hyundais are reliable and cheap, but they're not flashy like later ones. Only modern engines of theirs I trust are the 1.8L 4 banger and the 3.3L V6
@@SkylineFTW97 100% agree. The 90s and early 2000s Hyundai used Mitsubishi iron block engines. That's why they were decent. Current trash is sold on that reputation.
@@MirchiBoy a 2001-2006 Elantra is what I would recommend for someone looking for a cheap, reliable, and fuel efficient car if they have less than $3000 to spend. They can be had for under $1500 and parts are common and cheap
I've never thought of it that way. Yes, they are the Chinese scooters of cars! hahaha
@@SkylineFTW97 I had a 96 accent with manual trans that was 15 years old when I bought it and 25 years old when I sold it for $1200 which is no small feat in upstate NY. I've owned toyota's, honda's, nissan's, hyundai/kia's, and a chevy vega. the 96 accent was the best car I ever owned. yes, even the japanese toyota's and honda's need repair. the years you mention were good for hyundai/kia in general.
Oil contamination, small rod bearings, insufficient oil flow to rod bearings, metal shavings in crankshaft oil passages that restrict/block oil flow, low speed pre-ignition that hammers the rod bearings, stuck rings, piston slap, poor pcv valve flow and a few other problems I have probably forgotten or haven't come across yet. The number of problems with this engine is staggering. A lot of these problems can be managed by a knowledgeable and motivated owner, while some cannot. But for the average owner, these engines are a ticking time bomb.
I agree. My plan is to change my oil every 3K miles and send oil to the lab every other oil change to see if any new problems pop up. I should be able to squeeze 100K miles out of it if I watch the ticking time bomb closely.
@@LabCoatPaulthat's what I'm doing on my '19 sonata (2.4L theta II). Bought it new, now drinking oil at 74K at around 1 qt per 1200. BL, I should get 100K at the rate I'm driving, and after that it doesn't owe me anything. I didn't overpay for it, to wit I got it for well under MSRP which I'm still kinda surprised in hindsight they let it go for that in 2019 (ah the good ol days before the Fed stole our future lives with M2 printing) which is why I went with a sonata over some overpriced Honda (mazda outright got out of the full size sedan business altogether so there went that).
I am very satisfied with the fuel economy, ride comfort and interior dimensions of my sonata. The frame, suspension, transmission (it did get a software flash when I replaced the fuel pump under warranty and got the bearing knock software subroutine flashed, only work visit required in 75K) and electrics have been problem free, which keeps the dispatch rate high, which is the only thing I care about in a car (they're commodities to me, I'm not a car enthusiast).
To wit, I don't need to run oil analysis when I know it's a problem nobody is going to fix. Catch can potato this late in the engine life is also throwing good money after bad. This engine is on palliative care at this point. I'm currently having to add oil in between oil changes given the oil consumption doesn't let me get to a normal 5K interval, so in a way it's like doing oil changes every 2K miles.
@@GonzoT38 The Honda Accord has the same problem now. The L15B7 does the exact same thing and the K20C2 probably does to a lesser extent. Only way to go NA anymore is to get the hybrid. I miss the J35 in those cars. Our shop foreman got a 2017 V6 touring, the last year you could buy a V6 one. They just have fewer problems with normal maintenance (they do have timing belts, but a Honda J series timing belt is one of the easiest timing belts to do on a modern engine. It's 100% a DIY friendly job and you can do it in just 3 or so hours once you know what you're doing)
@@LabCoatPaul A person should be able to get 200K miles out of a well cared for engine. It's unfortunate what this manufacturer has done.
I have a 2018 Santa Fe Sport with 76k miles on it, having this exact issue. I have only added 22k miles to it the three years I have owned it and have never gone beyond 5,000 miles on an oil change. Always full synthetic. Waiting to hear now if they will replace my engine under their warranty. This is such a sucky situation. No way my car should be burning oil at the rate it has been. I’ll never touch any type of Hyundai or Kia again in my life.
I’m going through the same thing right now. I won’t go through the whole thing, but it got towed in from my house when I check in the morning I had no oil I it . I called the dealer immediately and had it towed into them. Absolutely no lights were on nothing just on a whim. I figured I’m going to check the oil and that’s what I found. I was shocked and now I’m researching the hell out of this.
I’m gonna get mine fixed as best as I can. They should pay for a new engine and I’m researching everything and I’m trading the son of a bitch in as fast as I can for a Toyota
I"m 93,000 for my 2019 hyundai tuscon. Just luckey to catch my oil bone dry 2x! with light coming on for air in tires! turns out both times absolutely zero oil in the car! So far I haven't blow my engine. Bought 2 cases oil at costco and dealer told me i'm burning 1 quart every 1,000 miles! I was planning on driving this car another 50,000-60,000 miles! Not sure what is going to happen but on 12/4 dealer has opening to have the car for full day. They said they would try to get a new engine but no promises! I priced new engines sounds like around 8K.
1999 toyota rav4 front suspension shot. Checking out your videos on repairs and parts replacement.
Yep
Have a 2019 with the 2.4. Its burning about 4 quarts per oil change. This will certainly clog your catalytic converter much faster and require regular intake valve and combustion chamber cleanings. Make your changes early and ask for an overfill if you take it somewhere.
Nice Video.
However, I know that the user manual does not just instruct the owner to change the oil every 5,000 miles.
There are conditions stated in the user manual that indicates when to change the engine oil.
For example, if you mostly do short trips, the user manual suggests that you change the oil much earlier than 5,000 miles (around 3,500 miles).
You can find this information under the "Maintenance Under Severe Usage Conditions" section of the user manual. (Note that this differs from what is specified under the "Normal Maintenance Schedule" section).
That's true. Most people actually have severe usage conditions when they drive mostly in town.
@@LabCoatPaul NOT TRUE! Short trips are considered "severe" because the oil TEMPERATURE doesn't reach high enough to dissipate the condensation (water) in the oil which causes sludge. Driving in town or highway long enough for oil temp to reach normal (about 10miles) WITHOUT shutting the engine off is NOT severe use. Also, idling in cold weather to warm up the engine is BAD because the engine, under no load warms up a LOT slower than DRIVING the car (SLOWLY) after starting it. The condensation remains in the crankcase a LOT longer with the car idling! And don't forget about TOWING (severe use)!
I never skip 3k mile oil change. I don't care what car manufacturers recommend. 3k miles oil change. Oil is cheaper than engine
Not enough in this case. I go 7,000 to 10,000 on my Accord. 225,000 miles and all is fine. Changing at 3,000 miles wills been a waist of $2,000!!!!!!!!
this is also happening in Australia 100's of Tucson owners are not happy and have engine failure.
I also own 2017 Tucson with 1.6 T-GDi but i live in Europe and here the service interval for oil change is 15000 kilometers/9500 miles... Now after 6 years old/60000miles my engine is burning oil and I was never advised at Hyundai dealership where I did all my service to change oil more often. At last service (3 months ago) I was told that there's almost no oil left in the engine, before I had no clue that this car burns or will burn oil. Now after 3000 miles driven oil level is about 3/4 between low and full on oil stick. A mechanic has adviced me to just add oil when it gets about 1/2 but according to you I should already replace the oil. I don't know what to do with this car, I can't afford a new one currently.
9,500 miles oil change is crazy! If you have a leaking high pressure fuel pump, the last 8,500 miles of that was on bad oil. If the car is working normally, that's 6,500 miles on bad oil. You should never go over 3,000 oil changes in your Hyundai.
Theoretically, if you burn all your oil, and you pour in new oil, you're doing more of an oil rotation... You should still change it every 3,000 miles though. Even if the oil overall is experiencing less use, you're still accumulating gasoline in your oil pan an you need to drain it out.
Step 1: change your oil and send a sample to the lab. They can tell you how much contamination you have and advise you how often to change your oil.
Step 2: keep that oil full. If it burns oil, just keep adding it and don't go over 3,000 mile oil changes.
Your car just identifies as a 2 stroke. (burns oil). No big deal. Keep it full and it will continue to run. The catalytic converter will get plugged eventually.
@@LabCoatPaul I do not know about any labs here testing engine oil. From now on I will change oil every 3000 miles. Do you have any reccomendation what oil to use? Hyundai here uses Valvoline 5w30 full synthetic. Thanks for your reply.
2017 1.6T here as well, same color. It started burning oil around 100k miles, perfect timing since thats the warranty! It needs about 0.75 quarts every 1000 miles. Unlike my lexus gx470 with 233k miles which has new looking oil after 7000 miles and no addition needed, the Hyundai oil is black after 500 miles. I do the CRC intake cleaning every oil change and have tried the Castrol Edge GDI oil, which is expensive. Hasn't helped. I may go to cheaper Mobil 1 or Valvoline and just change every 3k miles instead of 5k.
This was a very well done video. Excellent presentation and information. Thank you very much.
Very good presentation and pictorial presentation on the insanity of GDI. I drive a 2.2L HHR. It continues to average 24 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road as it approaches 120K miles. Oil consumption is negligible. For trips and Sunday driving we also have a 2002 MBZ E320. It continues to average 22 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the road. LIkewise the oil consumption is negligible as it approaches 100K miles. Both cars have multi port injection and have never failed an annual emissions inspection. Not all "modern" cars burn a lot of oil...just the ones with GDI. The industry should be allowed to go back to MPI.
The industry's only barrier to going back to MPI is their own refusal to produce cars that can achieve decent mileage without GDI.
My VW gti doesn’t burn oil and it has gdi, Hyundai has terrible high pressure fuel pumps and piston rings.
@@locluke979 I think there are aftermarket piston rings.
I have a 2017 hyundai sonata 2.4lt I believe. I do change my oil between 2,500 and 3,000mi because I do not want to have an oil consumption problem. So far at a 125,000mi I haven't had a issue but I am worried it may happen soon. I read the article on Google but it didn't say what you did to fix the issue. I always changed my oil at 5,000mi on my older vehicles but decided with the weaker rings I would not risk it. I have always gotten at 350,000mi on my vehicles before something would start acting up and I'd junk it due to high mileage and not wanting to sink money into something that can't obviously last much longer. I am hoping to get my $40,000 out of this vehicle before having to replace it. Vehicles cost way to much now days and lose their value to quickly to not get the maximum amount of use out of them in my opinion. If I'm paying 40k for a vehicle I expect to get 350k miles out of it because selling it a few years later is like throwing money away. I need transportation and yes I get the luxury model so I can drive in comfort because it's not much more then the base model but I really don't care about being the coolest on the block. Obviously if I did I would had spent twice as much instead of a hyundai lol. Anyway I am hoping their is an easy fix if this happens.
I don’t think any Kia or Hyundai will get close to 350k without a motor change. But ya never know. Meticulous maintenance is key.
@@crashandburngaming5103 from what I am hearing now probably not but so far it's doing good.
You're doing the right thing by changing your oil often. This problem can be prevented, but fixing it once the engine is ruined requires a new engine. Make sure you test your oil. If your high pressure fuel pump has a leak, those 2,500 mile oil changes won't save you!
Should I replace my high pressure fuel pump just to be safe? I mean I'm at 126,000mi and it may be better to just be safe. It seems like it would be easy to replace. It can't be that expensive and I'd rather be safe then sorry. I would like to get over 300,000mi out of this vehicle. Personally I think $40,000 is outrageous for a vehicle. Maybe I'm just cheap but paying that much money for something that loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot especially when you include maintenance, taxes, insurance, and is something that could leave you stranded at a moments notice.
always change the oil every 3k, gdi or non gdi. all that garbage of 10k intervals is insane.
So next vid is about RAV4 sx6?
2013 Santa Fe, GDI, Elderly owner , 10 qrts per thousand , 99144, KABOOM, new engine, no charge........Thanks Hyundai....
Loved your video.
What is your opinion on installing an oil catch can on the Hyundai 2.4 engine??
I think it's a great idea! It will help keep the intake valves clean. It probably won't help with oil contamination or consumption.
This video is so underrated. I have ordered my oil test kit and im sending it to the lab to see if I have contamination however my car is at 330000 KM lol, its a kia sorento
Did you follow Blackstone's instructions for getting a sample properly? IIRC, you're supposed to 1) get the oil good and hot - minimum 15 miles drive before taking the sample and 2) get your simple from the 'middle' of the stream of oil coming from the pan. You show pouring from an intermediate container, and mention in the comments below about most of your driving being < 4 miles, which won't give you the most accurate results (though I guess if you are always doing < 4 miles, it's somewhat more representative of your typical driving conditions... which are not good. You're actually a good use case for electric if you're always doing such short trips).
Cool and thorough, Good job Paul
Love your work mate
2011-2019 GDI engines fail because of gasoline mixing with engine oil especially when doing mostly short trips - gasoline doesn't have time to evaporate. Cruising near 1000rpm adds to the problem (low oil pressure at the connecting rod bearings)
I'm hoping the catch can I put on my 2020 Palisade helps reduce the fuel dilution. I have been changing the oil right around the 3000-3200 mile mark since I bought it and I don't see any loss of oil. I've done one GDI cleaning with the Berryman cleaner so far at around 20,000 miles.
The catch can will keep your intake valves slightly cleaner. I doubt it will have any effect on fuel dilution in the oil. 3,000 mile oil changes are a great idea if your high pressure fuel pump doesn't leak. Send a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs to find out if anything is wrong.
Very good information...I think Honda had the same issue.
2Gr -fks has a serious oil leak problem where the head, block and timing cover seals intersect. Generally get larger after 100,000k. As it ages it drips oill onto a smokey exhaust.
Fixing it usually is an engine R/R and cover reseal. Figure $4000.
This is EXACTLY why I bought the Genesis with the 4.6L NON-GDI engine
were you taking lots of short trips without warming the oil completely?
I have a had a 2011 optima since new. So far it has 165,000km on it. Runs good and has 170+ compression on all 4cyl.
I change every 4-5k with 5-20 full synth only.
Still gets 40-45mpg on the highway.
I assume I am one of the lucky ones??
I haven’t noticed any gas smell in the oil yet but maybey I should look at dumping it soon if this is gonna happen.
And I am pretty sure it’s not worth repairing if that happens.
I have a lifetime warranty they sent me but from what I hear it may be impossible to get them to replace it.
Just a bit worried now lol.
It sounds like your car runs great! Instead of worrying, send a sample of your oil to the lab and you'll know for sure what's going on with your engine.
What kind of driving were you doing ? Severe service will contaminate the oil much faster as engine doesnt warm up fully to burn off fuel in oil . How long the engine runs after its fully warmed up plays a factor also
My car is definitely severe service. Most of my trips are less than 4 miles.
@@LabCoatPaulUgh , That Doesn't Help Oil Contamination. The Engine Must Achieve Full Operating Temp To "Burn Off " Excess Fuel / Moisture .
"Identifies as a two-stroke engine" lmao
Problem is over the long term, this may contaminate the catalytic converter - expensive to replace.
Paul, thx for the help. I have a santa fe 2016 that is burning oil. 78K miles. what oil wait would you recommend to use such as 10w 30 or ??
Also since burning oil does it make send to go to regular oil if changing every 3K vs synthetic every 5K? Curious what your take would be on just using the regular oil?
Hyundai dealer want me to spend $450 for a decarb? curious if you think that is worth doing or changing the PVC value is worth doing or will either make a difference? Sounds like you just have to keep changing the oil about every 3K or keep topping off till 5K. Any other ideas how to curb the oil consumption? Thx Paul M.
Unfortunately, once you have oil consumption, the damage is already done. Change your oil and send a sample to Blackstone labs. Follow the lab's recommendations on oil change interval.
I recommend using whatever oil viscosity is written on the oil fill cap. On my Tucson it's 5W-30. Since you won't benefit from the longer life of synthetic oil, you might as well use the cheapest stuff you can find (as long as it has the correct SAE rating for your car). If your car has a turbo, it may still be better to use synthetic oil.
As for the GDI carbon cleaning: yes, do it. clean intake valves are very important for the engine to run right.
$450 is not the right price for GDI cleaning. Did they recommend a service package that includes other things?
I recently paid $671 for my 30K mile service, but it included:
oil change, transmission flush, coolant flush, fuel induction cleaning (GDI cleaning), tire rotation, brake fluid flush, and inspect a bunch of stuff.
They didn't give me a labor breakdown for the GDI service, but the chemicals were $39. I'm guessing the GDI service alone is around $100 total.
And yes, clean the PCV valve. it's easy. You can do it yourself.
I don't blame hardworking folks who dare NOT touch any Kia or Hyundai vehicle. With the massive bill they shouldered from the engine failure fiasco plus other major safety recalls, guess who will foot the bill eventually?
I'm having issues with my tucson 2018 . My mechanic told me the engine is consuming excessive oil. I have done all my maintenance roughly around 3 to 4k miles. I have an appointment this Saturday with the dealership and see what happens .
How much oil does a gdi turbo engine need?
Sounds like a KIA / Hyundai alright. To be fair.. we have a 2020 RAV4 and it’s the biggest piece we’ve ever owned. It’s been to the shop 6 times for various issues most of them related to the Auto start stop feature causing electrical problems AND the roof rails leaking into the interior of the vehicle. And it has less than 15K miles. Meanwhile my Chevy Bolt (seriously a GM product) has yet to have any issues. Oh well besides the battery that may burn the house down. I guess I’ll stick with my Chinese Scooters instead. ❤
Quality control? hahaha no it's customer service problem now! It's too bad Toyota decided to make the RAV4 junky. Some manufacturers (Hyundai for sure) recommend parking the car in the street in case it catches on fire.
And that crazy nut of a CEO at GM is cutting the Bolt! 95% of GM's EV business, and their cutting it to add to their EV truck line - including the Hummer. Since the beginning of the year, GM has sold one (yes 1) Hummer EV.
@@LabCoatPaul AND, away from structures.......like YOUR HOUSE!
LOL😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂!!!!!!
The cost of your oil analysis would almost pay for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 synthetic oil (Walmart ) and a filter from the dealer.
My advice to friends who buy Korean or European cars : Don't keep them past warranty.
My next vehicle will most likely use the Camry hybrid drive train. (Rav4, Vensa, Crown, similar Lexus (probably used)). It has GDI but also has port injection.
No turbos, efficiency tuned, no accessory belts. Electric car with gasoline assist.
No start stop needed. Engine only runs when it is needed (and to warm up).
Moral of the story. Find a way to delete or re-route the EGR and PCV valve without the computer knowing lol 😂
Ok, so every 3k. Got it, change oil and check pvc regularly. So, do I still need/ should use synthetic oil or hybrid or conventional ok because so frequent? Or? Thank you for doing these
Synthetic oil is recommended for turbocharged engines because it can handle higher temperatures than regular oil and the viscosity will be more consistent. I buy Kirkland brand oil at Costco and it's about 1/2 price compared the auto parts stores. It still meets the same API specifications. Cheaper oil is not worse than expensive oil.
I recommend sending a sample of your oil to Blackstone labs. 3,000 mile oil changes are good IF the high pressure fuel pump isn't leaking. If it leaks like mine did, even the 3,000 mile oil changes will result in a blown engine. That's why you need to test the oil.
Also, do we have the same problem with lambda II motors ? I have a 2015 3.3 l lambda II. Everything works well but just to prevent something… thanks
Yes, the GDI version of the Lambda 2 engine was introduced in 2011. Most GDI engines have a tendency to get gas in the oil. Test your oil and change it often.
Love the scooter videos, btw!
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your findings.
Could one of the consequences of driving one of these vehicles (I have a 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with the Theta II engine, another of Hyundai's gasoline direct engines) lead to pitting of the pistons and cylinder wall wear? That's the struggle I am currently facing but, since it's not rod bearing failure, it's not covered by Hyundai's extended warranty. I certainly was not changing my oil ever 1,000 miles, so who knows how long I may have been operating it with potentially contaminated oil 😔 Thanks again.
Did they just replace the high-pressure fuel pump with a newer version or what?
I think it was the same part number, but there was a lot less fuel in the oil after.
Excellent video. IMO, engines using GDI should still have some percentage of its fuel charge delivered using port injection, partly to wash all the crud past the intake valve to be burned in the combustion chamber.
The question I have is your driving mix. My thinking is longer duration drives (>30 min) periodically, get oil >>200F, hot enough to evaporate the gasoline from the oil and have it burned after passing through the PCV valve.
Is this a bad assumption?
How come a large part of the Diesel Engines do not have this problem since they also use DI since like forever? Also some newer VAG TSI engines seem to be pretty reliable for up to 200.000 km. I'm thinking quality of the parts and build is to blame also here
Diesel has lubricant qualities. Plus yes , built more robust.
So im planning on buying one. a 2016 model. Is there a way besides changing oil frequently to prevent an engine from blowing? And what if the engine is starting knocking? What can you do to repair this?
Frequent oil changes are the only way to prevent excessive wear. Change the oil and send a sample to the lab, like I did.
If the high pressure fuel pump leaks, even 3,000 miles is not often enough.
If you have a knock, that engine is already ruined and needs to be replaced. You could get a few more miles out of a knocking engine by running a higher viscosity oil, like 20w-50, but don't do it to an engine that is working normally.
@@LabCoatPaul that's crazy to keep changing oil every 3000 miles tho hahah. There needs to be some kind of fix voor this...
So if the engine in knocking, changing the pistonrings and bearings won't be enough?
I cannot believe this. I have an older BMW I change the oil every 10.000 miles or so and I find that often. Now I want to get a newer car and I need to change is more often hahahah am I dreaming
@@LabCoatPaul if the engine is running without tikking, what kind of oil is good to out in? I live in the Netherlands. In the winter it can get somewhat cold. Around 0 to -10 Celsius and in the summer around 20/30 Celsius (30+ only when there is a serious heat wave)
@@007kwaku Check your owner's manual for oil viscosity recommendations. Mine says use 5W-30 synthetic for cold weather.
@@007kwaku Many modern engines with gasoline direct injection have oil contamination issues. It's true newer engines require more frequent oil changes than older ones.
For example, I sent oil to Blackstone labs from a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles. The report said normal wear metals, 0 fuel contamination, 6,500 mile oil changes are ok.
10,000 miles oil changes are not good for any engine. Next time you change your oil in the BMW, send a sample to the lab. If you pay extra for the TBN test, they can measure the levels of additives remaining in the oil and give you an oil change interval recommendation.
If an engine doesn't contaminate the oil (like my Hyundai), 6,000 mile oil changes are ok.
Needless to say, I have learned a lot. Thank you unfortunately be both me and my partner have Hundaes I have a Senada and my partner has a Tucson. Mine is burning about 2 quarts every thousand miles.
Bg epr and go with a Lucas additive
Get rid of them if you can as fast as you can. That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m having problems to.
@@jackielheureux3229 what kinda
Turbocharged direct injection engines, whether gasoline or diesel, are fuel diluters. That's what they do. The problem can be mitigated by boiling the lighter fuel components out of the crankcase oil by taking frequent extended longer trips at highway speeds. If this is your normal driving routine, then fine. However if you drive predominantly shorter trips, especially in cold weather, a turbo DI engine is not a good choice.
Definitely agree. My 2.4 naturally aspirated is pretty much a road trip vehicle. 67k miles and no oil consumption. Also installed a catch can, works well, mostly moisture bit of oil.
So I own a 2014 Hyundai Accent 5dr with the 1.6 L GDI. I've owned this car from new. No real problems with this car in it's lifetime, aside from effects of driving on crappy roads and rusted out brakes. Always changed the oil twice a year, added fuel injector cleaner to the tank periodically, etc.
I just passed 100k, and it started to burn/consume oil with ferocity - ~1L per 1000 km.
I just changed the PCV valve, and am trying a seafoam treatment on the oil prior to my next oil change.
Your video is a lot to wade through. Is there a fix, other than super frequent oil changes?
It's north of $80 CAD + taxes at the least expensive place I can take it, and that's for conventional oil.
any update? my hyundai accent 2015 95k milage burns alot of oil since about 90k.
With the issue of oil dilution due to fuel. Would it also help to go to a thicker oil viscosity?
Only a little bit. Going to 10w-30 is ok, but any thicker than that and the oil won't flow properly through the bearings in the engine.
You need to send a sample of your oil to Blackstone-labs to see how much fuel contamination you have. If they recommend 3,000 mile oil changes, that's ok. If it's lower than that, you probably have a leaking high pressure fuel pump or some other problem.
You need a good oil spec for direct injection engines, the volkswagen approved 504.00 507.00 spec oils are the most stringent oil spec on the market, its not cheap but its the best oil for direct injection. You need low saps formula to help reduce carbon build up on the intake valves
Have never heard about this lawsuit or any recalls - I have a 2021 Hyundai Kona Limited with a 1.6T - looks nothing like your motor.
But are the other manufacturer's (Audi, BMW, Buick, Chrysler-Jeep Wrangler, Ford, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Saab, Subaru, and Volkswagen) GDI engines having the same problem?
Every manual have clear statement that you should follow the maintenance under SEVERE usage conditions (change the oil twice as often) if the vehicle has not been driven under ideal conditions.
You can put an air/oil separator on the pcv line to reduce valve carbon build-up.
That's a good idea! I bought one, but I haven't installed it yet. I want to do a comparison video to see if the oil separator actually does anything.
My 2 L turbo, (2-13), has a built in oil separator, I did add a catch can a few years ago. It doesn't catch much oil, but I do get sh*tty brown water in it. Better in the can than the back of the valves.
You can also use a "low volatility" oil that generates less oil vapors. Currently the lowest volatility oil on the market is Pennzoil "ultra platinum full synthetic", it's even better for GDI engines than Amsoil!
Then why isn't Hyundai doing this for free? I bet the part cost them almost nothing and probably take the mechanic 30 minutes to do.
I have a 2016 kia soul with the 1.6l with 230k miles on it, all I have had to do is change the alternator, do you think doing this will be worth it on so many miles it still seems good to me
Sure, if all you need is an alternator to keep your car going, it's a great idea.
Does the Gamma II engine have the same issues?
Aussie 2020 Seltos GT-Line AWD 1.6l turbo? TIA :)
It probably does. Send a sample of your oil to the lab to see how it's doing.
How is the 2014 Tucson not in that list xx
Buz of MPI
I have seen reviews where they said the oil passage ways when made were drilled but not cleaned out, leaving metal shavings that would clog the oil passages. Leading to failure. Happened with engines made in USA Alabama. Should sue that plant. They had plenty of time to fix the issue. They must be making more money by providing extra engines.
Hyundai denied my engine replacement even though it was still within the warranty mileage and time. My dealership was able to get the extended warranty coverage to cover it. My car being only 2 years old and needing a new engine is pretty deviating when the factory works hard on not helping customers under warranty. All this being said, my new motor has big engine time valve tucking. Sounds like it already is going to blow. This happed a week after having the new engine installed. So basically, it will soon have a useless brick in the driveway. Buy Toyota or Nissan. I will. 😢
Sorry to hear that. Make sure to document all your engine problems with videos and paperwork from when you took it to the dealer. Sometimes dealers will replace your engine with a cheaper used engine that might also have stuff wrong with it.
how much does the lab cost?
Couple of questions because I own this car too.
1. What brand of Oil do you recommend using for this car?
2. 5W20 or 5W30?
3. Do you recommend the Fuel injection cleaning from dealership?
4. Do you recommend adding ATS oil and fuel cleaner (like scotty does)?
I own a Santa Fe with the 2.4 and my only recommendation is to trade in the vehicle for a Toyota while prices are still high.
I use 10K mile Mobil1 full synthetic oil in all my vehicles, except the Hyundai. It burnt it within 3K miles, so I switched to the cheaper super tech full synthetic and I now do 3K mile oil changes. At least in my car, after changing the PCV valve every 10K miles and turning on eco mode has helped reduce oil consumption. Good luck.
@@powerjddo you use super tech 5w30 or 5w20
@@truebengalsfan I use 0w-20
@@powerjdI will try it I know some with 2012 sonata 2.4 having same oil consumption issue
@@truebengalsfan yeah, it’s a defect that Hyundai refuses to take care of. Only certain models are covered under the recall from a few years ago.
Update video? How can you fix this problem?
unfortunately you can't fix oil consumption, you can only prevent it.
I have tucson 2020 and am having the same issue. It was such a big mistake that I got tucson zeo meter ,first and last time mistake ever....now no one is covering the manufacturer fault where everyone knows the truth...
Did the dealer ever explain how the high pressure pump could cause gasoline to leak into the crankcase?
They explained nothing, but the answer to that question is simple. The high pressure fuel pump sits on top of the valve cover and is driven by the camshaft. It has 2,000 psi of fuel pressure on one side, and almost no pressure inside the valve cover. It's pretty easy for an O-ring inside the pump to leak a bit and dump gas straight into the valve cover.
@LabCoatPaul Thanks, I didn't know the layout and couldn't see any reason for there to be leak path, but that clears it up. I've got a 2020 Honda CRV and do 3,000 mile synthetic oil changes, but have noted a gasoline smell to the used oil. I'm thinking that I'll need to have the oil analyzed the same way you did and check to see what kind of PCV system Honda uses on it.
Great video and thanks again!
@@kirkjohnson6638 Yes, definitely send it in to the lab! It's the only way to know for sure.
I wish I would have seen this video before I got rid of my 2017 Sonata. It was burning an insane amount of oil after 115k miles, I think around 3-4qts every 1k miles. I'm really curious how badly diluted the oil was with fuel after 1k miles, I'd go to add more oil and my dipstick REEKED of fuel. I'll never buy another GDI engine or Hyundai again, I drive a lot and I need something reliable.
I'm sorry that happened to you. What car did you get instead?
Use higher octane 91-93 on shell. And today you can try use valvoline restore and protect only for better results and cleaning carbon
Good advice! These newer engines run better with higher octane. With low octane they might run rich, retard timing, or limit boost to prevent knocking. Running rich could lead to extra gas in the oil.
What manufacturers other than Hyundai/Kia have had problems with GDI? How bad have those problems been.
I've heard from other youtube videos that Ford has fuel contamination issues on their GDI engines. I'm sure a lot of car manufacturers get gas in the oil. The only way to know for sure is send a sample of your oil to the lab.
@@LabCoatPaul Thanks. Gas in the oil makes it bad not to change the oil on time. Also, the intervals manufacturers recommend are thus too long. Its best to go by the severe use recommendation for OCIs.
The Genesis Coupe last model year was 2016 (3.8 GDI engine). The 2.0T engine was discontinued in 2014. There is no 2017/18 model for the Genesis Coupe. Might want to correct that in you discription.
I have a 2017 tucson as well my oil is being consumed have to add oil abouy every 2 days but since April I keep having a misfire for my piston 1 and 2 have to continously replace spark plugs and coils any solutions ?? Please help it's my only vehical I've paid mechanic to do a check and they thought it was gasket cover replaced that and it still keeps happening
A valve cover gasket will leak oil on top of the spark plug. If you have oil on the part that goes in the cylinder, you have bigger problems like leaking valve seals or bad piston rings. I recommend doing a compression test on your engine.
I have 2016 hyundai tucson, same issue, had to order off ebay oem o2 sensor and oem coil pack, then I added Dual oil catch cans, one for pcv and the other for crankcase, add breathers on the output of catch cans, now car drives a whole lot better, oil burns but not as bad anymore, also I did a carbon clean before adding the 2 oil catch cans
The service manual says changing oil every 3000 miles for severe usage conditions.
Don't forget how the dowel pin walks into the exhaust camshaft phaser on Hyundai/Kia engines.
i got my santa fe 2017 engine replaced as it was burning lots of oil.
I think the problem with your car actually started with the original owner, which brings up the importance of checking a vehicle's maintenance history. I think you don't have a GDI problem so much as you have a ring wear problem from poor break in and a long time from when it was new til when it got it's first oil change. I would check compression on that engine and also pull the Carfax to see how long that first oil change took. Also, how long are each of your drive cycles? Do you do a lot of short trips?
I bought my car used, with 28,000 miles. It was a lease return from California. I don't know how often the oil changes were done. I'll assume the person didn't care about the car. There were other signs of abuse like paint damage from multiple spilled sodas on the roof and candy under the seats.
My first oil test showed 6% of the oil is gasoline. The limit is 2% before the viscosity of the oil is compromised. Older cars with port fuel injection have zero fuel in the oil. One of my friends just did a test on his 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 260,000 miles and there was no gas in the oil.
After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, my oil contamination dropped from 6% to 2% over a 3,000 mile oil change, confirming the fuel pump was leaking into the oil.
GDI operates at 2,000 psi and the pump sits on top of the valve cover and is driven by the camshaft. If it leaks even a little bit, the gas will go straight into the oil by the camshaft. Also, the gas is sprayed into the cylinder at high pressure, and there's a turbo. All those factors increase the chances of fuel getting past the piston rings.
It's possible my engine has some cylinder and ring wear, however, it does not burn oil. After 3,000 miles, the dipstick indicates FULL. Perhaps even a little more, with the gas in there. I start with 4.5 quarts, and I end up with 4.59 quarts of oil + gas in the oil pan.
Blackstone labs said there was a serious problem that needed repairs with the first test. After I had the high pressure fuel pump replaced, they advised to keep an eye on the oil contamination, and not to go over 3,000 miles on the oil.
My driving habits are severe duty. I rarely drive the car more than 4 miles at a time. Going to work is 15 minutes, 4 miles. Going to the store is 5 minutes, 1 mile. The engine doesn't get a chance to warm up, and fuel doesn't get a chance to evaporate out of the crankcase. It's reasonable to do 3,000 mile oil changes with that kind of driving, so I don't think my car is broken. But If I blindly follow 5,000 mile oil changes, it will burn tons of oil by the time I get 80K miles on the car.
@@LabCoatPaul Great explanation. Yes, the short trip driving is severe duty. 3k interval is a good choice.
Strange that you hear all this in the USA and not in Europe. I drive 25,000 km per year without any problems.
Well your using valvoline it’s the bottom of the barrel oil.
Try using Amsoil Signature series oil and do the test again.
The issue is gasoline contaminating the oil, so my guess is the better oil would get contaminated the same amount and would not improve anything...
Unless the Amsoil makes the piston rings seal better or something that would reduce gasoline getting into the crankcase. It's worth testing.
Short trips can allow moisture and gas to build up in oil.
I think mine is lasting so long BECAUSE i never did any oil change, I just keep adding oil and remove the filter every 10k because it has burned so much oil from day 1 I bought it at mile 1 its now close to 240K miles