Great to see you back in the workshop Olly! This looks like a great project, I hope there's a part 2. I've still never tried a 3D printed thread. I'd assumed that they were largely for decoration, and would shear off at the first sign of any torque, but you seem to be giving it some welly at 06:35. Something I need to experiment with I reckon 👍
Honestly I'm amazed at how that little lock ring has stood up to the forces. It's a 1mm pitch and 3mm thick (from memory) so only about 3 threads engaged. It was printed on the 0.12mm layer height setting on my bambu, I could only print decorative threads on my creality.
Almos 2K subs. That's good. It's a milestone. I never used ER collets but still, it's a very clever consept. And if it doesn't work, you will make it work.
It's a totally arbitrary milestone, but it's a nice round number 😃. I've never used anything except ER collets, but it's something a lot of people have so thought it an interesting idea.
Hi! I am glad to see someone trying this as i had similar ideas but did not pursue them for the following reasons: 1. ER collets require more compressive force to close the collet than other tapered collet designs which are commonly used in auto-collet-closer applications, which is probably why we don't see ER auto-collet-closers. 2. Quite often when loosening an ER collet, the collet does not disengage from the taper on its own. You break the nut loose, spin it out a few turns, and then encounter resistance again, that is the collet "stuck" in the taper. Further torque applied pulls the collet out with a "pop." Your design may or may not address this, I can't tell. If it doesn’t, it should, or else there will be problems. That said, i think you have chosen wisely with the Belleville washers and I look forward to being proven wrong. Subscribed to follow your progress.
A couple of excellent points there. No 2 is easy, because I'm retracting the rear taper, it definitely disengages, as you can see when I'm releasing the drill bit. No 1 is a concern, not being a mechanical engineer by trade, I'm not sure how to calculate the forces required, the numbers for the Belleville washers are quite high (~2600N), but no idea how this compares to the compressive force when a collet nut is torqued up (about 130Nm for ER32).
@@ollysworkshop ok cool. #1 shouldn't be too hard to figure out either, just torque the nut however tight it takes to keep the workpiece from spinning when a "normal cutting load" (use your calibrated wrist I guess) is applied, and see if your mechanism still works. If you have to apply so much torque that it collapses the Belleville washers, then the mechanism won't do its thing. You may or may not be able to do this with a 3D printed body. My gut feeling is that you won't be able to do a real test until you invest in a metal body, and if true, that sucks.
Hi Olly, well done on reaching and surpasing the 2K subscribers mark, its richly deserved. The main housing in blue printed perfectly, those threads looked moulded👌👌 Well done for taking this on, you'll get there I'm sure, you've certainly proved the concept. Very interesting to see the Belleville washers, we had a very long stack of them fitted to some valves at work to provide a failsafe closure on loss of hydraulics. All the best!!
I think the reason no one has done it is 5C collets are more used in the industry and you can get easy on/off chucks for those. I like the idea! I’m eagerly awaiting the next step so I can get even more excited (I use er32 and just do not want to buy yet another set of collets). I could see this also being fantastic if you have a stop in the back of the Chuck, maybe held in place through a spider or something in the back of the spindle? This way quick in quick out, you can make the parts ultra fast.
Not requiring a complete separate set of collets was the main motivator for this. I know a normal person would just buy a suitable bit of kit and the collet set, but where's the fun in that! I'll add the back stop to the list, great idea, thanks. When I have a useable set of drawings I'll post them on the discord and you can make one!
If you drill a hole midway between the 2 release pins and make a spanner which starts with a pin in that hole, attach 2 metal arms which come around the tool body and can push the 2 release pins and then come back together on the other side of the chuck to form a handle the tool would be very easy to operate. There will have to be some o-rings between the sliding piston and the container sleeve to keep out dirt and swarf but your design is a good one... Congratulations on a well thought out concept.
Hi, thanks for your input. The lever you suggest is pretty much where I'm at, although I've had loads of feedback so lots of ideas bouncing around in my head. Excellent idea to use o rings to seal the mechanism, I'll definitely be incorporating that one.👍
Hi Olly Seems to be a great idea for the lathes with the ability to take the leverage, great for production work, to save time, but i'm permanantly on snail pace now!!😄😄😄😄 Get it made now you have proven it and i might make a micro version for my micro lathe.👍👍👍👍 if you don't do it someone else will take the credit see you next time atb keb
Good to know that a real manufacturer uses them. I first heard about them when Physics Anonymous did their power drawbar, no doubt they mentioned Haas, but I just remembered the name of the washers!
There's quite a bit of fun stuff on Haas machines. One of the more fun bits is the resistors used for motor braking. For quite a while, they were using regular high power resistors, which are quite expensive. Then one day Gean asked Kurt if they could use the heating elements from the common electric range. Kurt handed the project off to one of the engineers and the design was completed, saving around $150 per machine. Out of the box engineering.
Fun idea and video! I'm a bit worried about cutting tool pressure releasing the grip since the only thing holding the collet closed is the springs. Lever action collet closers for other collet systems have an "over center mechanism" so that when they are locked, there is a great amount of force required to get back into the open state. They do pop open sometimes but it is pretty rare. Maybe you could look at adding that kind of mechanism.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely add that to the list. I'll try it out without first, as if it works then it's preferable to keep it simple, but you make a valid point.
That's spooky - I have a design for just such a thing in my head that has been keeping me awake for the last couple of months. Is UA-cam listening to my brain? My design however, used a tube that passed through the spindle (the largest ER40 is somewhat smaller than the spindle bore). Subscribed.
Hi, yes it's scary when UA-cam can tell what you're thinking! I did think about something through the headstock but my through hole is only 25mm and I wanted to keep my options open as you can get "special" ER32 collets up to 25mm (normal limit is 20mm). Stay tuned for more development 👍
I'm still sleepy, so probably may not make sense. I think this is a very good start, and it'll be more useful if you can make the inner collet and spring loaded fixture freely rotating against a stationary outer sleeve.
Just discovered your channel. Subbed. Interesting idea well executed, but from my experience in a home shop, the need to open and close the same collet size repeatedly isn't really a thing I've found I need to do unless you happen to have a small production run going.
Hello Olly, A big CONGRATULATIONS on the 2,000 subscribers, richly deserved indeed... cool project, I have one of the for my Myford. I think Duncan Bullock shows his in action on his channel... If you need any photos of mine just shout and I'll email them over. Well done on the 2k again Take care. Paul,,
Don Dyar Machining installed a 5C collet closer very similar to this concept on his axelson. I think it was a commercially available product that he adapted to his lathe.
In my experience using ER, fine chips get into the collet and chuck. If you use ER at all you know it's a clean every time you release the nut affair.... For the manual lathe, the Hardigne/Sjogren speed chuck in 5C is my favorite. You really only need a few stock size collets and some soft emergency collets for 2nd op or odd sizes. I have a 5C lever action chuck, never set it up.
2.01K subs as I watch, Well Done Olly. Looking at you actuate the pins with the long bar, I assume there is a fair amount of force in those washers, but do you think there is any chance of cutting force applied to the work piece pushing the collet back and therefore releasing itself (just a thought)? I'm also curious as to how you are going to apply your lever mechanism when actually on the lathe ie Waiting for part 2.👍 Cheers from Down Under
Hi Bob! 2038 as I write this, got to be my most popular video to date. There is a risk of slipping as the force will be less than a rigid chuck. Will be interesting to see what kind of load it will handle. Hopefully by part 2 I'll have figured out how to do the lever bit!
Hi thanks for the feedback. The lathe is a WM290, similar to the warco machine (and probably from the same factory) but a different distributor. Set true would certainly be an upgrade. I'll add it to the list. It'll be interesting to see what the runout is when I've got a proper metal version.
Clamping the parallel shank of a tool by spring pressure is not used in industry for obvious reasons. Bellevile washers are used to clamp solid tapers into a socket via a drawbar where the inherent friction of the taper and drive keys stop the toolholder from spinning. The cutting tool is securely clamped in the toolholder.
WIthout a cross section diagram, I couldn't see, but unless mistaken, only the back half of the ER is in a taper? (the sliding part) Or does the ER front also get gripped in the body of the chuck?
Hi Nigel, on this version I could only get a small amount of taper contact with the sliding part as I had to make the neck of the body (the bit with the M40 thread for the nut) fairly substantial as it was only a 3D print. I'm redesigning it in metal and I think I can get the taper to full length on that version. I'll include a section drawing of the mechanism in the next video.
You earned a sub... A great idea... Some potential issues, but honestly, nothing that can`t be engineered out... I just deleted a comment i was writing, but i`ll try and get back to this and comment again a more detailed idea... Hell, i maybe even do a tech drawing of what comes to mind and post a short video explaining the thinking behind it... Let`s just say that i would take your idea, and make it a bit more complex... The thing could be made a tad longer, thus granting space for an integral loosening mechanism akin to the american taper lathe spindle nut that draws the chucks and retains them on the taper while the key does it`s job... The nut would be a 3-piece design, being drawn back by a spring towards the spindle as a safety feature, and the special wrench or an actuator could be made that would allow you to push it away from the spindle and towards the lugs of this, catching them and forcing the inner piece to slide back... You would need a secondary rod to be insertable in a hole in the base of the body for actual torque to be transmitted rather than turning the damn thing, and the spindle would have to be stationary with such a design, but it would be quick and damn stout at any rate... Now a whole bunch of other ideas come to mind, more akin to conventional collet closers and even automatic closers, but all of that often puts force on the headstock casting or spindle itself, neither of which is the best thing imaginable for the castings nor the hollow shaft that is in fact a high precision instrument of sorts... I much prefer to keep all the force that a system needs contained fully within the system itself, rather than making any part of the lathe a subsidiary of that system and a potential failure point... A cracked chuck is easily tossed away, a damaged lathe casting is a reason to grease the train wheels with ones own fat... If you want, or better said, if i feel like it, i may do a tech drawing of what comes to mind and film a short bit on it, explaining the thoughts and general design premise, but i think you get the point... Kind regards and all the best! Steuss -Edit- I made the drawing, it`s a tad flawed, but i`ll go through it and post a vid in a few days(hopefully)
Hi, sorry for the delay in responding. Wow, what a comment! There's a lot of good suggestions there, and it's triggered a few ideas of my own. I will certainly be interested to see what you have come up with. I am with you on not putting too much force through the lathe, food for thought!🤔
@@ollysworkshop I recorded like 6 fucking videos today, going over the damn rough draft again and again, and every damn footage had some damn issue, be it sound or other... I`ll record again tomorrow and likely post within a day or two... I really need to get some proper recording eq. made for the job... Regarding the ideas, i`m most glad, that design has quite the potential in my eyes, i added some details to the drawings which i will explain... But yeah, putting loads on parts that may bear with it but may also fail as a result over time is a major concern to me... I`m not a purist regarding oem, but i generally like to be mindful of what the design department had in mind before the casting even had a mould... Best regards and ``see ya`` soon! Steuss
@@ollysworkshop Here we go, I`ll upload a vid in a few minutes... I think it mostly covered everything... I have some additional thoughts, but let`s just say that the ``rear retainer ring`` doesn`t have to have the ``thin retaining/locking nuts``, one could make a long nut with a tapered shoulder and a locking configuration of whatever chosen integral sort, thus granting the split nut full support from both ends, while at the same time reducing the number of parts from 3 to 1 to achieve the same effect... I may touch up the draft and record a short addendum, but what i said here is mostly what i would add at this moment... We`ll see... Best regards!
Cool project. How are you planning on making the lever mechanism independent from the spindle? So that the lever can remain stationary as the spindle turns?
I had originally planned to have bearings on the bolts sticking out of the side that would run on a stationary ring. I didn't like that idea, so I didn't show that bit of it. I'm now leaning towards an external sleeve that would be pressed on by a bearing on the lever. Either regular bearings or some kind of clutch bearing.
@@ollysworkshop yeah i was thinking something similar with a bearing and some kind of groove on the OD of the inner ring with matching protrusion for the lever. so essentially you're pulling back on a ring locked into the groove of the inner ring instead of 2 pins. that's probably doesn't make any sense lol but i swear it looks clever AF in my head... 😂
Have a look at the construction of this collet - your belleville washer idea is inspired BTW Check this video ua-cam.com/video/n0VbUNIt4ds/v-deo.html as he disassembles and services a quick change collet chuck of a similar design intention - what I like was the two piece bearing ring. The collet closing mechanism, like yours moves from behind. From your design I would say that the collet closing taper needs to encapsulate the whole collet, or as much as it can for secure workholding as the ER collets being cut both ends can flare - otherwise it's a very solid idea and a really good one at that.
I find this idea a great bit of fun. So as you said in reply to HM-Projects "I'm still trying to figure out the best way to make the lever actuator mechanism. It will sleeve over the rest to hide the spinny bits". I was wondering what you had in mind for that. I myself would make an outer ring that picks up shorter bolts than the ones that you are currently prying on. At least three and perhaps four of those bolts. This would then give a spinning ring, close against the main body, which you could then cover with a stationary one that attaches to the lever system that is used to compress the springs. There is of course a more crazy method, that being using compressed air to release the part. You would set up a piston system inside the chuck to compress the Belleville washers. Then there would be a pair or so of valve stem tubes sticking out where you bolts currently reside. In use, you use a simple air chuck on a hose from your compressor to apply pressure to the tubes, which releases the part. Then by removing the air chuck, the pressure is released because the Schrader valves in the tubes have been removed and the next part is clamped. No matter how you do this, I like your project, it's fun. Air Chuck d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/12031745/images/10778%201.jpg Valve Stem static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/bkm-15-1974_xl.jpg Schrader Valve en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrader_valve
That's some great ideas. I had considered an air actuator of some kind, but went off the idea as I was imagining some kind of banjo fitting with a permanent air connection. I didn't fancy designing that. Your idea is somewhat simpler. We're definitely on the same page as far as the outer sleeve goes. I'm still thinking, and processing everyone's comments, but hopefully something will emerge from my brain soon!
Great to see you back in the workshop Olly! This looks like a great project, I hope there's a part 2.
I've still never tried a 3D printed thread. I'd assumed that they were largely for decoration, and would shear off at the first sign of any torque, but you seem to be giving it some welly at 06:35. Something I need to experiment with I reckon 👍
Honestly I'm amazed at how that little lock ring has stood up to the forces. It's a 1mm pitch and 3mm thick (from memory) so only about 3 threads engaged. It was printed on the 0.12mm layer height setting on my bambu, I could only print decorative threads on my creality.
Almos 2K subs. That's good. It's a milestone.
I never used ER collets but still, it's a very clever consept. And if it doesn't work, you will make it work.
It's a totally arbitrary milestone, but it's a nice round number 😃. I've never used anything except ER collets, but it's something a lot of people have so thought it an interesting idea.
Hi! I am glad to see someone trying this as i had similar ideas but did not pursue them for the following reasons:
1. ER collets require more compressive force to close the collet than other tapered collet designs which are commonly used in auto-collet-closer applications, which is probably why we don't see ER auto-collet-closers.
2. Quite often when loosening an ER collet, the collet does not disengage from the taper on its own. You break the nut loose, spin it out a few turns, and then encounter resistance again, that is the collet "stuck" in the taper. Further torque applied pulls the collet out with a "pop." Your design may or may not address this, I can't tell. If it doesn’t, it should, or else there will be problems.
That said, i think you have chosen wisely with the Belleville washers and I look forward to being proven wrong. Subscribed to follow your progress.
A couple of excellent points there. No 2 is easy, because I'm retracting the rear taper, it definitely disengages, as you can see when I'm releasing the drill bit. No 1 is a concern, not being a mechanical engineer by trade, I'm not sure how to calculate the forces required, the numbers for the Belleville washers are quite high (~2600N), but no idea how this compares to the compressive force when a collet nut is torqued up (about 130Nm for ER32).
@@ollysworkshop ok cool. #1 shouldn't be too hard to figure out either, just torque the nut however tight it takes to keep the workpiece from spinning when a "normal cutting load" (use your calibrated wrist I guess) is applied, and see if your mechanism still works. If you have to apply so much torque that it collapses the Belleville washers, then the mechanism won't do its thing. You may or may not be able to do this with a 3D printed body. My gut feeling is that you won't be able to do a real test until you invest in a metal body, and if true, that sucks.
I will be making a metal body that I can properly test very soon!
@@ollysworkshop according to my math it's about 18kN axial force from the nut. That doesn't mean every work piece requires that much.
Congratulations on getting close to your 2K subs, you absolutely deserve it. That's an interesting concept looking forward to the final version
Thanks, I'll be working on the next step very soon.
I'm really looking forward to how this turns out. 1.99k subs as we speak, and worth so much more. Kepp it up mate.
Just crossed the threshold of 2k. Thanks for your encouragement.
Excellent work. We shared this video on our homemade tool forum last week, and people really liked it 😎
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Olly, well done on reaching and surpasing the 2K subscribers mark, its richly deserved.
The main housing in blue printed perfectly, those threads looked moulded👌👌
Well done for taking this on, you'll get there I'm sure, you've certainly proved the concept. Very interesting to see the Belleville washers, we had a very long stack of them fitted to some valves at work to provide a failsafe closure on loss of hydraulics.
All the best!!
Thanks David
No idea if it's a good method or not, but it's one cool project!
Thanks Paul 😁
I think the reason no one has done it is 5C collets are more used in the industry and you can get easy on/off chucks for those. I like the idea! I’m eagerly awaiting the next step so I can get even more excited (I use er32 and just do not want to buy yet another set of collets).
I could see this also being fantastic if you have a stop in the back of the Chuck, maybe held in place through a spider or something in the back of the spindle? This way quick in quick out, you can make the parts ultra fast.
Not requiring a complete separate set of collets was the main motivator for this. I know a normal person would just buy a suitable bit of kit and the collet set, but where's the fun in that!
I'll add the back stop to the list, great idea, thanks.
When I have a useable set of drawings I'll post them on the discord and you can make one!
If you drill a hole midway between the 2 release pins and make a spanner which starts with a pin in that hole, attach 2 metal arms which come around the tool body and can push the 2 release pins and then come back together on the other side of the chuck to form a handle the tool would be very easy to operate.
There will have to be some o-rings between the sliding piston and the container sleeve to keep out dirt and swarf but your design is a good one...
Congratulations on a well thought out concept.
Hi, thanks for your input. The lever you suggest is pretty much where I'm at, although I've had loads of feedback so lots of ideas bouncing around in my head. Excellent idea to use o rings to seal the mechanism, I'll definitely be incorporating that one.👍
this looks amazing, and quite an accessible design that could be fabricated on a lathe at home. subscribed!
Hi, the intention was to make it simple to make. Still some development work to do, but I will keep going. Thanks for the feedback.
Hi Olly
Seems to be a great idea for the lathes with the ability to take the leverage, great for production work, to save time,
but i'm permanantly on snail pace now!!😄😄😄😄
Get it made now you have proven it and i might make a micro version for my micro lathe.👍👍👍👍 if you don't do it someone else will take the credit
see you next time
atb
keb
Thanks Kev. I don't seem to be able to get beyond snails pace lately, but pleased to have got this done, it seems to be of interest to several people.
... A micro lathe version would be awesome!
Very nice. Haas uses BelSeville washers for the drawbar.
Good to know that a real manufacturer uses them. I first heard about them when Physics Anonymous did their power drawbar, no doubt they mentioned Haas, but I just remembered the name of the washers!
There's quite a bit of fun stuff on Haas machines. One of the more fun bits is the resistors used for motor braking. For quite a while, they were using regular high power resistors, which are quite expensive. Then one day Gean asked Kurt if they could use the heating elements from the common electric range. Kurt handed the project off to one of the engineers and the design was completed, saving around $150 per machine. Out of the box engineering.
@@oldfarthacks interesting 🤔
Cool idea! Always wondered about quick change er collets. Good luck will be watching.
Fun idea and video! I'm a bit worried about cutting tool pressure releasing the grip since the only thing holding the collet closed is the springs. Lever action collet closers for other collet systems have an "over center mechanism" so that when they are locked, there is a great amount of force required to get back into the open state. They do pop open sometimes but it is pretty rare. Maybe you could look at adding that kind of mechanism.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely add that to the list. I'll try it out without first, as if it works then it's preferable to keep it simple, but you make a valid point.
That's spooky - I have a design for just such a thing in my head that has been keeping me awake for the last couple of months. Is UA-cam listening to my brain? My design however, used a tube that passed through the spindle (the largest ER40 is somewhat smaller than the spindle bore). Subscribed.
Hi, yes it's scary when UA-cam can tell what you're thinking! I did think about something through the headstock but my through hole is only 25mm and I wanted to keep my options open as you can get "special" ER32 collets up to 25mm (normal limit is 20mm). Stay tuned for more development 👍
@@ollysworkshop
Similar problem for me. I am running a mini lathe with a 3/4 inch through bore, so even more constrained on things through the bore.
@@oldfarthacks another reason for me to get this done properly!
I'm still sleepy, so probably may not make sense. I think this is a very good start, and it'll be more useful if you can make the inner collet and spring loaded fixture freely rotating against a stationary outer sleeve.
Heh, I sure didn't. I should've watched the video when I was more awake 😂
Hehe, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to make the lever actuator mechanism. It will sleeve over the rest to hide the spinny bits
FWIW, the Tormach quick release uses Belleville washers in a similar way. It's a good idea.
Just discovered your channel. Subbed. Interesting idea well executed, but from my experience in a home shop, the need to open and close the same collet size repeatedly isn't really a thing I've found I need to do unless you happen to have a small production run going.
I agree, there's no need for it, and I've never made so many parts that I would have benefited from one! That's not enough to stop me though 😁
Gday Olly, very interesting and congratulations on 2k subs
Thanks Matty 👍
Hello Olly,
A big CONGRATULATIONS on the 2,000 subscribers, richly deserved indeed... cool project, I have one of the for my Myford. I think Duncan Bullock shows his in action on his channel... If you need any photos of mine just shout and I'll email them over. Well done on the 2k again
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks Paul
Don Dyar Machining installed a 5C collet closer very similar to this concept on his axelson. I think it was a commercially available product that he adapted to his lathe.
Thanks, I'll have to take a look. 👍
In my experience using ER, fine chips get into the collet and chuck. If you use ER at all you know it's a clean every time you release the nut affair....
For the manual lathe, the Hardigne/Sjogren speed chuck in 5C is my favorite. You really only need a few stock size collets and some soft emergency collets for 2nd op or odd sizes. I have a 5C lever action chuck, never set it up.
Hi, thanks for the feedback, that's a good point about cleaning the collet. Makes me think that some kind of chip shield is on order 🤔.
2.01K subs as I watch, Well Done Olly.
Looking at you actuate the pins with the long bar, I assume there is a fair amount of force in those washers, but do you think there is any chance of cutting force applied to the work piece pushing the collet back and therefore releasing itself (just a thought)?
I'm also curious as to how you are going to apply your lever mechanism when actually on the lathe ie Waiting for part 2.👍
Cheers from Down Under
Hi Bob! 2038 as I write this, got to be my most popular video to date. There is a risk of slipping as the force will be less than a rigid chuck. Will be interesting to see what kind of load it will handle. Hopefully by part 2 I'll have figured out how to do the lever bit!
Superb idea, even marketable. Warco 250?
Make the collet chuck set true also maybe?
Hi thanks for the feedback. The lathe is a WM290, similar to the warco machine (and probably from the same factory) but a different distributor. Set true would certainly be an upgrade. I'll add it to the list. It'll be interesting to see what the runout is when I've got a proper metal version.
Clamping the parallel shank of a tool by spring pressure is not used in industry for obvious reasons.
Bellevile washers are used to clamp solid tapers into a socket via a drawbar where the inherent friction of the taper and drive keys stop the toolholder from spinning. The cutting tool is securely clamped in the toolholder.
WIthout a cross section diagram, I couldn't see, but unless mistaken,
only the back half of the ER is in a taper? (the sliding part)
Or does the ER front also get gripped in the body of the chuck?
Hi Nigel, on this version I could only get a small amount of taper contact with the sliding part as I had to make the neck of the body (the bit with the M40 thread for the nut) fairly substantial as it was only a 3D print. I'm redesigning it in metal and I think I can get the taper to full length on that version. I'll include a section drawing of the mechanism in the next video.
You earned a sub... A great idea... Some potential issues, but honestly, nothing that can`t be engineered out... I just deleted a comment i was writing, but i`ll try and get back to this and comment again a more detailed idea... Hell, i maybe even do a tech drawing of what comes to mind and post a short video explaining the thinking behind it... Let`s just say that i would take your idea, and make it a bit more complex... The thing could be made a tad longer, thus granting space for an integral loosening mechanism akin to the american taper lathe spindle nut that draws the chucks and retains them on the taper while the key does it`s job... The nut would be a 3-piece design, being drawn back by a spring towards the spindle as a safety feature, and the special wrench or an actuator could be made that would allow you to push it away from the spindle and towards the lugs of this, catching them and forcing the inner piece to slide back... You would need a secondary rod to be insertable in a hole in the base of the body for actual torque to be transmitted rather than turning the damn thing, and the spindle would have to be stationary with such a design, but it would be quick and damn stout at any rate...
Now a whole bunch of other ideas come to mind, more akin to conventional collet closers and even automatic closers, but all of that often puts force on the headstock casting or spindle itself, neither of which is the best thing imaginable for the castings nor the hollow shaft that is in fact a high precision instrument of sorts... I much prefer to keep all the force that a system needs contained fully within the system itself, rather than making any part of the lathe a subsidiary of that system and a potential failure point... A cracked chuck is easily tossed away, a damaged lathe casting is a reason to grease the train wheels with ones own fat...
If you want, or better said, if i feel like it, i may do a tech drawing of what comes to mind and film a short bit on it, explaining the thoughts and general design premise, but i think you get the point...
Kind regards and all the best!
Steuss
-Edit-
I made the drawing, it`s a tad flawed, but i`ll go through it and post a vid in a few days(hopefully)
Hi, sorry for the delay in responding. Wow, what a comment! There's a lot of good suggestions there, and it's triggered a few ideas of my own. I will certainly be interested to see what you have come up with. I am with you on not putting too much force through the lathe, food for thought!🤔
@@ollysworkshop I recorded like 6 fucking videos today, going over the damn rough draft again and again, and every damn footage had some damn issue, be it sound or other... I`ll record again tomorrow and likely post within a day or two... I really need to get some proper recording eq. made for the job...
Regarding the ideas, i`m most glad, that design has quite the potential in my eyes, i added some details to the drawings which i will explain... But yeah, putting loads on parts that may bear with it but may also fail as a result over time is a major concern to me... I`m not a purist regarding oem, but i generally like to be mindful of what the design department had in mind before the casting even had a mould...
Best regards and ``see ya`` soon!
Steuss
@@ollysworkshop Here we go, I`ll upload a vid in a few minutes... I think it mostly covered everything... I have some additional thoughts, but let`s just say that the ``rear retainer ring`` doesn`t have to have the ``thin retaining/locking nuts``, one could make a long nut with a tapered shoulder and a locking configuration of whatever chosen integral sort, thus granting the split nut full support from both ends, while at the same time reducing the number of parts from 3 to 1 to achieve the same effect... I may touch up the draft and record a short addendum, but what i said here is mostly what i would add at this moment... We`ll see...
Best regards!
Cool project. How are you planning on making the lever mechanism independent from the spindle? So that the lever can remain stationary as the spindle turns?
I had originally planned to have bearings on the bolts sticking out of the side that would run on a stationary ring. I didn't like that idea, so I didn't show that bit of it. I'm now leaning towards an external sleeve that would be pressed on by a bearing on the lever. Either regular bearings or some kind of clutch bearing.
@@ollysworkshop yeah i was thinking something similar with a bearing and some kind of groove on the OD of the inner ring with matching protrusion for the lever. so essentially you're pulling back on a ring locked into the groove of the inner ring instead of 2 pins. that's probably doesn't make any sense lol but i swear it looks clever AF in my head... 😂
👍👍😎👍👍
Thanks
Have a look at the construction of this collet - your belleville washer idea is inspired BTW
Check this video ua-cam.com/video/n0VbUNIt4ds/v-deo.html as he disassembles and services a quick change collet chuck of a similar design intention - what I like was the two piece bearing ring.
The collet closing mechanism, like yours moves from behind.
From your design I would say that the collet closing taper needs to encapsulate the whole collet, or as much as it can for secure workholding as the ER collets being cut both ends can flare - otherwise it's a very solid idea and a really good one at that.
Thanks, I'll watch that now. Some excellent feedback too👍🙂
@@ollysworkshop It's nice to see that I'm not the only one that gets kept awake at night by ideas like these...
I find this idea a great bit of fun.
So as you said in reply to HM-Projects "I'm still trying to figure out the best way to make the lever actuator mechanism. It will sleeve over the rest to hide the spinny bits". I was wondering what you had in mind for that.
I myself would make an outer ring that picks up shorter bolts than the ones that you are currently prying on. At least three and perhaps four of those bolts. This would then give a spinning ring, close against the main body, which you could then cover with a stationary one that attaches to the lever system that is used to compress the springs.
There is of course a more crazy method, that being using compressed air to release the part. You would set up a piston system inside the chuck to compress the Belleville washers. Then there would be a pair or so of valve stem tubes sticking out where you bolts currently reside. In use, you use a simple air chuck on a hose from your compressor to apply pressure to the tubes, which releases the part. Then by removing the air chuck, the pressure is released because the Schrader valves in the tubes have been removed and the next part is clamped.
No matter how you do this, I like your project, it's fun.
Air Chuck
d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/12031745/images/10778%201.jpg
Valve Stem
static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/bkm-15-1974_xl.jpg
Schrader Valve
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrader_valve
That's some great ideas. I had considered an air actuator of some kind, but went off the idea as I was imagining some kind of banjo fitting with a permanent air connection. I didn't fancy designing that. Your idea is somewhat simpler.
We're definitely on the same page as far as the outer sleeve goes. I'm still thinking, and processing everyone's comments, but hopefully something will emerge from my brain soon!
Great job and idea man, Thanks for sharing