Dude went through all of that effort to create a fake livestream only to make it as obvious as possible in said livestream that he's the murderer. Actual scooby doo villain.
It’s crazy how shady this guy is to think of putting a prerecorded live stream to try and cover up a murder. Pretty eerie how it was posted on Christmas and the guy acts or attempts to be heartwarming throughout it.
He probably thought he was a genius for pre-recording a video to fake a livestream for an alibi but ultimately he set himself up for an inescapable first degree murder charge because that is irrevocable proof of premeditation.
@@sisi5444 yeah, that's right, if you plan a murder it's wayyy worse than walking randomly down the street and shooting the first person you come across
The fact that a UA-camr I grew up watching not only murdered a pregnant woman, but planned it at least *days* in advance, is honestly terrifying, and I feel sick for having supported him - especially now knowing that some of my words of encouragement were given after he cruelly stole an innocent life and an unborn one. Rest in peace, Natalie and child.
Holy crap I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I watched his Doctor who toy reviews when I was a kid and now I realize that it was all stupid and none of his jokes where even funny. This whole case is absolutely horrifying.
@@linglongz9713I used to watch this guy because I thought he had the most high quality reviews of all the sonic screwdrivers and other toys and this is just.. yeah. My heart dropped when Charlie said mostly doctor who, and dropped even further when I seen the name.
Ya I used to watch him too so it was shocking to find out he's a cold blooded killer makes me feel uneasy but Thanks moist for shining light on to this, it's even wired because I looked back on that murders yt channel I was still subscribed to him I can tell you that didn't stay for much longer
gotta love that the lawyer said "the livestream being fake isn't a basis for accusing him!" Even though it was never the basis. He was already accused and that was his alibi which was proven to be falsified
Yup! He was the one that tried to use it as his alibi… innocent people don’t need to lie so obviously he’s guilty in some fashion if he’s lying about where he is. I 100% think he did it, there’s too much evidence there.
As a student in his final year of law school, there are some mind-bogglingly incompetent lawyers out there. The best thing to do when your client is almost certainly guilty is to shut up and work on mitigating circumstances.
Fucking disgraceful, as someone who’s Irish and realises how small our country is it’s shocking that something like this could happen so close to home.
Ik. Rewatching this video it always shakes me to the core how easily this could have happened to someone I know since it’s such a small country (I also have family members living in Lurgan.) This man is truly psychotic doing this to a pregnant woman no less. I hope Natalie’s family are doing ok.
@@galaxyred7 may be because it happened specifically in northern ireland, different country different news coverage etc i still find it difficult to believe the info wouldnt spread between the two parts of the island due to it being such a massive case, but it atleast makes a little sense
He suffers from the dunning krueger effect definitely. He honestly believed he had covered all of his bases, so much so that he went through with a murder. He was like "only someone smarter than me could crack this case and good luck trying to find someone smarter than me"
There’s always something truly horrifying and disgusting about watching someone making calculated decisions well in advance to try and murder someone. Somehow the idea that they’ve been planning this for a while with their unintoxicated minds just takes the creep factor up a few notches.
It's a limited plus side, but a positive here in regards to getting justice for his poor victim is that the demonstrably false livestream is likely a great case for the argument of premeditation. The guy who goes out of their way to construct an alibi for murder, demonstrating literal calculated forethought and planning isn't gonna get away with arguing it was an unplanned act, driven by emotion.
@@uyuyuy99 he recorded this days before the murder, so unless he was drunk for days on end then he was sober at some point during the premeditation. Try using your ears or maybe your brain (ideally a combination of both?) before you spew shit out of your mouth
As a former fan of his I can tell you one of the most disturbing parts about this is at the beginning of the year, he made a tweet talking about how "2022 was the worst year of my life. You will never know the levels of suffering, loss, and cruelty I was subjected to, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm not ok, and I don't think I ever will fully be myself again. I've just lost too much." To most of us it just seems like Stephen was going through another depressive episode. We didn't think he was basically admitting he murdered someone.
@@larion2336 lmao victims rly cants win even when they’re stabbed to death there’s somehow a logical explanation to why they were killed. Like are you sure she didn’t do smthg to warrant her being stabbed to death while pregnant? How scary it is that you have to be liked by everyone and be on everyone’s good side and make no enemy ( basically be a doormat with no boundaries) in order to potentially not be killed .
@@larion2336 depending on the reason I highly doubt he's a monster. Monsters kill for no reason other than to fulfill an urge or because and they like it and sometimes both. They also don't feel bad about it in the slightest. Guarantee there's a sad story here as to why he resorted to murder as an answer but yeah I doubt we'll ever hear it because everyone will just assume he's the big bad villain and she's just an innocent victim. Not saying she couldn't just be an innocent victim but most people don't just target someone to murder on a whim.
The senior detective in charge of this case (John Caldwell) was brutally attacked in a premeditated attempt at murder a few days ago and is currently in critical condition. They've just arrested a 6th person today for it. It's really interesting to see such a massive content creator share this story from my small home country. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing it!
Looks like he has a lot of targets on his back. I guess that’s unavoidable when you handle that many high-profile cases. Hope he recovers soon, one article said his condition remains critical but stable.
Big story over here in Northern Ireland. The amount of planning that has went into the murder is scary. Recording a "livestream", changing his clothes after being on the bus, wearing 2 pairs of gloves etc. And all of that a week before Christmas and she was pregnant.
I was the one who mentioned it on your stream! We found out because it was big news here in the UK and Ireland. My boyfriend was a huge fan of his stuff and was devastated, and as soon as I found out I basically rushed to your stream to see your take on it and to hopefully raise awareness of what human beings can be capable of. Best wishes go out to Natalie's family and friends, this is a huge tragedy and I hope they can find peace. R.I.P
I was very proud to see almost all of Doctor Who UA-cam's biggest names immediately posting their condolences to Natalie's family after the news broke. I never particularly watched VoteSaxon07, but he was referred to fairly often by others, and I was as shocked as everybody else. Justice for Natalie.
I'm a big Doctor Who fan, so I used to watch his content for years. His actions are pure evil, and I can't believe I ever thought of him as a decent bloke.
There was so much premeditated planning and even aftercare planning to make sure this would be the perfect crime. That is so extremely disturbing and I feel so horrible for the woman's family. I hope her and her child can find peace.
The best part though, is that the live stream is very obviously not live and he admitted to it later. Dude thought he was The Master but was actually K-9.
@Riley Small I cannot believe I have to explain this: "I hope they find peace", essentially means "now that they are no longer in pain, I hope their family is able to recover." Are you actually this fuckin dense or just trying to be and edgelord?
As a Doctor Who fan I knew his channel and even watched a few of his videos every once in a while but wasn't a big fan. I immediately recognized his face in the thumbnail and let out an audible "oh no". Absolutely chilling and disgusting, you'd never suspect this from him. Monsters lurk in the shadows.
I didn't know who it was in the video until I stopped it and looked. I'm devastated it was votesaxon07 I used to watch his sonic screwdriver reviews and other videos
@@keycrafter7471 yeah its getting to the point where I think I should stop putting faith in random people online that I kinda like just based off of the content they make, respect the art not the artist I guess
The fact he mentioned her name in the "livestream" and also says that police cant solve files anymore show he is proud for his job. He feels like a 100 iq killer. That man would kill again if he does not end up in prison
I know we tend to joke about stuff like this and then kind of just forget about it within an hour and go on with our lives. But seeing a man on camera film a deliberately fake live stream hinting that he is going to murder someone and that same person is found later stabbed to death and you know that HE did it is just freaking terrifying and sickening. I mean you are literally looking at a man who is about to commit a murder and is completely aware of it. God Bless that poor family…
I first thought him saying Natalie was a stretch but it’s like he realizes what he accidentally said it and smiles in appreciation for the coincidence. Actually evil
@@Jasmine1998jewell he says abso-f***ing-not-aly. Then when he repeats it his inflection is just a little different to make it sound more like Natalie, which with his accent didn't really sound like her name at first.
This is absolutely heartbreaking. To think Natalie and her future baby lost their lives because of that scumbag. R.I.P. and I hope that pos gets an appropriate punishment for what he's done.
If he gets jailed at least there is solace in the fact that there are two things other prisoners hate more than cops. Abusers of women, and abusers of children. Killing a pregnant woman is a fast track to getting fucked up.
Bro?? I used to watch this guys videos so much as a kid? He'd review doctor who toys and was actually pretty funny. Wow.. This is insane. May the innocent rest in peace and may their families get the justice they deserve
Thank you for covering this case. It happened very close to me and it's beyond heartbreaking. Your helping people to remember Natalie's name, so thank you for that.
My aunties husband knew him and apparently he was a really creepy guy. Apparently he stalked one of his earlier girlfriends while she was at work and all, sick guy honestly I hope and pray that Natalie’s family get the justice they deserve
Of all UA-camrs who committed the murder, I did not expect to see someone I recognized. Watched his reviews of those Doctor Who sonic screwdriver TV remotes like 6+ years ago. Still have those remotes as well. It's a sick feeling knowing someone seemingly innocuous had sone something so horrible. He's straight-up evil.
How horrific and tragic...her parents lost both a daughter and grandson, just before Christmas. God, I couldn't even imagine the pain her family is experiencing right now!
@@firstnamelastname8790 Some religious people believe God created everything and gave men free will, but He has no control over whether or not we align ourselves with good or evil within our time on Earth. I'm an athiest, too, but these sort of "gotcha" comments are really annoying and only showcase your ignorance and your close-mindedness. You are that which you purport to be against.
@@terrabelle9937 actually referring to god as "he" or "she" is what's ignorant, if god is real then it'd make sense that god wouldn't be subjected to a gender lmfao
I’m in complete shock right now. I’ve been subbed to this dude for well over 10 years. Used to be a big Doctor Who fan when I was younger and watched all his toy/prop review videos. I straight up thought UA-cam was glitching when I saw his picture in the thumbnail
That has to be a pretty shitty feeling.. Kind of like how I felt when I found out about SkyDoesMinecraft, I used to watch him all the time when I was younger I imagine what you feel is even worse though since this guy turned out to be a straight up murderer...
I totally get that man... I'd been subscribed to Stephen for over 10 years too, including his original channel being demonetised and wishing him well after his scary Keratoconus surgery, I loved his live action subscriber milestone specials, But I turned my back on him after he spat disgusting accusations about people who don't like the latest Doctor Who, I unsubscribed from Stephen a few months ago because he essentially said anyone who doesn't like the latest Doctor Who is a Racist and or Homophobe which really stuck in my throat as a disgusting thing to say, He didn't quite say it like I stated it was more like "If you don't like him, why else must you not like them other than being a Racist and or Homophobe" despite his whole thing being "Modern Doctor Who Acting, Direction and Writing being disgustingly awful" he sure changed his tune once the news told him to. When I saw this whole situation my stomach dropped to the floor and felt sick...
This murder actually happened in my hometown, apparently the man was her boyfriend and even attended her funeral under false pretences without anyone knowing he was the muderer
Used to love this guy when I was a kid getting into Doctor Who, I was in shock when I first heard the news. I hope Natalie's family can find peace, and that Stephen gets what's coming
At this point I'm convinced Twitch chat are scrolling 24/7 for any degree of news. It's honestly impressive how fast they relay information to Charlie.
The fact he done it just is disgusting, especially to a woman 15 weeks pregnant. I live in Northern Ireland, believe me when I tell you, if he by chance managed to get away with it, there's people who will get him, anyone from the North or South know that.
@@ireallyreallyreallylikethisimg Well, to be fair, if he's rehabilitated by that time, it's fine. That's why most prisons in Europe are better than those in the US; They actually try to rehabilitate people. The question is of course if he even CAN be rehabilitated. Only time can tell.
The other main scary part was him "accidentally" flashing a "no time to die" poster on the screen, supposedly around the time he would have been in her house during the livestream. Lots of unhinged moments in there from what I saw, he basically made himself look way worse doing it, even if it helped him in the short term.
Instead of this video being used to give him an alibi. It will now most likely be one of the key pieces of evidence to prove at least second-degree murder
Found his channel due to my obsession with Battlebots and robot combat in general. Never thought he would do something like this. Hope the family recovers as best as they can
Listening to your videos on autoplay in the background, I can't express enough my surprise to hear Natalies name. Here in Northern Ireland it's been such a big deal since it happened, the entire country was absolutely heartbroken and furious. To think the culprit is somebody so many of us knew - both irl and as a UA-cam is absolutely disgusting. She was a bright, cheerful and lovely woman who had her whole life ahead of her. Thank you so much for covering this story, because I believe her name deserves to be heard.
@@dhdhhd9647 someone mentioned their relative who knew him, said he seemed creepy and stalked his past girlfriend, while that may be years ago, guess it wasn´t the same person?
@@Tropicanine honestly could've been haha cuz that's exactly what my mum's friend said abt him that he stalked her after they broke up n sent her horrible messages
this story really struck me. I’ve actually interacted with Stephen McCullagh (VoteSaxon07) for a few years through his streams. Been in the same community as him for several years too and have met him when he came to London for Comic Con. what’s also sad is that Stephen had a very close friend called Anthony who did videos together with him (The Doctor Who Spoilerific Reviews on Stephen’s channel) and before this happened he was a very upbeat, funny and just all round happy guy and since the news came out he’s basically gone into a deep depression and has even said he doesn’t want to wake up anymore. I just hope that the lives ruined by Stephen can get justice. Edit: others have informed me that thankfully people have reached out to Anthony and he now seems to be doing better.
That close friend of Stephen is a fucking drama queen. Sure, it's awful that he killed someone but this friend has no direct connection to the murder other than he knew the guy. Sounds like this friend needs to grow the fuck up and get over himself. He's gonna be ok, unlike the woman that got murdered.
It seems like Anthony has left the internet as he’s deleted his Twitter and removed all of his UA-cam videos (many of them featured Stephen so I’m not surprised). I just hope he’s ok.
The most chilling thing is, how premeditated this MURDER was! This was not an act of passion but preplanned under the belief that he would get away with it. Imagine if he did get away with it? Whose to say he wouldn’t do this to another person?!? Thank goodness all those involved in the investigation did an ace job! May the victim rest easy and her family are given the time and space they need to grieve.
@@armintor2826 depends on your local law but in most countries yes, crimes that were planned out tend to carry longer or harsher punishment that Spur of the moment emotional crimes
I'm the same, although Votesaxon07 has influenced me permanently, contributing to me being a collector myself and my mild obsession with Sonic Screwdriver replicas that I've had for nearly 15 years. It has all left a sour taste in my mouth.
This actually got to me because I used to watch Stephen way back then, and to see him do this is just horrifying. I do hope justice comes to Natalie and her family.
Couldn't believe the news when I heard it. Its a big story here in Ireland, the fact this happened 10 minutes from where I live is shocking. Its horrible thinking that someone so cruel and disgusting can exist in the community here. Thoughts and condolences for the McNally family absolutely heartbroken for their loss 🙏
The one thing we can be thankful for about this. Is atleast you and i live in countries where this kind of thing is a shock horror and not a common occurance.
What makes it so evil is how premeditated it is! That’s not in a fit of rage or moment of insanity! That’s cold and calculated! And the arrogance or mentioning her name in the “live” stream? That’s a proper psycho
Weird seeing this talked about. We go over to Northern Ireland for Christmas to see my wife's family, and we weren't far from Lisburn at all. Remember it on the news and her family talking about it. Mental.
The creepiest thing about this is that I have thought about this before, like "would that be a golden ticket out of a murder case if you set this up as an alibi and had like pre-planned messages in the chat to respond to or like an exact phone call to match up to reports?" And to think someone would actually try it is haunting
@@-Roche- Nah it's not completely natural. It's a rather niche concept that most people don't even consider at any point in their life. Not everyone sits around trying to think about how to get away with murder.
@@aSinisterKiid You can play internet psychologist in the youtube comments all you want but you're still wrong. Also how are you gonna claim most people haven't thought about it? Have you interviewed everyone in the world except me?
I hope the family gets justice and that he gets the punishment he deserves. What an absolutely sickening human being he is. The lengths he went to, to have an alibi is just.. I can’t believe it. I mean what is even the motive behind this? Was it his baby?
*Pretends to not be monster* Like seriously this man will definitely get charged with double counts of murder or murder and murder of a minor which it means it would be life sentence or death penalty if "Beyond shadow of a doubt" is rule in court when it comes to cases so severe. Just to be clear im not exactly familiar in legal system but I definitely know this man wont come out of prison for majority if not rest of his life or be executed
This guy's plan is REALLY easy to see through, what sold him out is the fact that he kept mentioning the "i am live, i cannot see the chat" over and over
I hope Natalie’s family can get at least a bit of closure and I hope this man gets put behind bars for a LONG time. It’s truly heartbreaking that they’ve lost not just Natalie, but a future member of their family as well.
Why isn’t Charlie covering the Pfizer executive busted for admitting that they are deliberately mutating Covid to sell their drugs? That is way more evil than this topic.
I never thought this would ever happen. I used to watch him when I was younger and was just getting into Doctor Who. Rest in peace to Natalie and her unborn child. I'm still in shock about this.
@@am-shak I'm not seeking attention. It's just that it's crazy when someone you watched in your childhood turns out to be a murderer. Like you don't expect those kinds of things to happen (unless you had a more cynical view of the world).
I actually watched a UA-camr who covered this too a couple days ago, on Kavos channel. Glad to see you covered this too. RIP to Natalie and her baby. And condolences for her family and friends 🕊️🕊️
This happened 10 minutes from my house. Everyone was talking about it and people were concerned 7 weeks had gone by with no clear suspect. Feel so bad for the family as he was at the funeral, in their house, and made a video about her life that was played at a vigil that was held for her. So sick. I've also heard from friends in the police that he can't be charged with the murder of the unborn baby, which seems really wrong too. I just hope he gets life without parole in prison and has an awful existence for the rest of his life
yeah because murder of an unborn baby isnt a thing, murder of a pregnant woman could be a dedicated crime but otherwise you would have to define if its a life or not and then you would have to define when life begins, which you know, is BS used to basically control woman having babies they don’t want, not so fun fact is that murder is actually the most common cause of death of pregnant women
@@topgeorge6908 i don’t know the laws where they’re at about things like murdering someone who is pregnant, but there is a pretty big difference between someone else brutally taking the life of an expecting mother and her baby and a woman legally choosing what to do with her own body
About 3-4 years ago now, I used to watch this guy's channel for reviews of the engineering show 'Robot Wars' as he actually was part of one of the teams on the show on a season. Would have never expected something like this and just goes to show that you can never trust someone solely from what they choose to show online. Rest in peace to Natalie.
@@mandero8842 Push to Exit. I can't imagine it will stay up if the guy is found guilty but Stephen still has a compilation of his team on TV and lets just say it hasn't aged very well... Aside from the obvious primary victims of Stephen, I really feel for the guys around him though as well. To have spent great time and money to get on a show only for its legacy to now be tarnished by such a monster must be the most humiliating and scary thought that a future murderer was once by your side as a 'friend'. In a way, cases like these kind of remind me of TCAP in how as well as the actual victim of the crime, the effects it can have on both the victim and perpetrator's close circle can be similarly as devastating.
Honestly, horrors of this story aside, the fact that he believed it would work for a second as an alibi despite how unusual and suspicious a chat-less stream is in the first place, how awkwardly acted his "technical issues" were, how many evidence he sloppily left behind, and especially how he kept a full proof of his forgery on his computer makes this whole charade sad. He must absolutely have felt like a genius while putting his plan together, but it's the most predictable outcome you could come up with with that kind of setup and anyone with a tiny bit of technical knowledge could immediately disprove that alibi completely. He could have not bothered with the whole livestream part in the first place and he would have had a better chance at getting away with it ; I guess in the end it's almost a good thing he put so much effort into incriminating himself, if you ignore how messed up attempting to implicate his own viewers into his crime is.
I imagine that your mind stops working properly when you're about to murder someone. I know when I'm heavily stressed, I start doing things that don't really make sense and also become less careful. I can't even imagine the amount of stress that murdering someone would cause.
Well an stream as alibi isnt that impossible. But i guess it needs a shitton of planning, and exact skript. First take a game where you cant tab out properly, because it would bug out. Any old game. Stream it for some time. And i mean like weeks. Then destroy your second monitor "accidentally" while livestreaming. Order a new one live. Choose one with a bit of delivery time, i mean you will use it as your new main screen so why not choose a good one. The two weeks with only one monitor are fine, you can read chat on your phone, right? Now we get to the core. Record a "livestream". Interact with one or two chat messages in the beginning, maybe another one 20 minutes in. Say how sad you are, but apparently the phone didnt properly charge, due to a faulty usb cable. So no more reading chat on phone. After all that recording, play it on livestream. Send the messages you interact with on the video yourself, with a second account. And you are free to go. Destroy the USB-Stick completely. Not in the microwave, one can proove that you destroyed electronics in there. But just to be clear: I dont think that would work. For so many reasons. You will still be seen. Im sure twitch can find out whether it was prerecorded or live, by some technical data like framerate and how stable that was, the source of the stream or whatever. NEver streamed so idk. And the second acc you interacted with on stream will eventually be traced back to you. So yeah, better, but still wont really work But still, this dude is completely stupid and did it the most retarded way.
Its a bot, btw, hope your dad is able to recover from this, got no doubt he's probably going crazy mentally speaking seeing as his friend murdered someone
i still can't comprehend this, i've watched his videos over the last 3 or so years, even interacted with him on a few occasions, he seemed like an affable guy. to find out that someone you thought you knew could potentially be capable of something so utterly calculating and heinous is just... like... i can't fully process the news coming out about him.
100% right about it not having a lot of coverage, I'm from Northern Ireland and I live about 40 minutes away from where it happened and this is literally the first video/article I have seen mention it. Rest In Peace to Natalie & her baby.
This whole situation pains me so so much, because I watch Steven as a kid all the time, his doctor who toy reviews gave me a new appreciations for the series and for how nice it is to hear some one talk about their interests, but to know he was capable of this just hurts.
I mean anyone’s capable of murdering someone in grand reality it’s not that hard. Unless you have morals and this dude is a Moral-less piece of human trash.
We were watching all this on the news here and keeping up with what was happening with it, surprised to see Charlie cover it cause people usually don't care about Ireland so thanks. Also one thing to mention that we saw watching our news, this guy was evil enough to turn up to McNally's Vigil and even chat away to her parents after the murder.
@@christiangasior4244 yep, when it’s a premeditated murder they’re always proud of what they’ve done and will always admire their work up close, compared to someone who kills in the moment and might feel guilty
I feel sickened that I was ever in the process of starting collabs with this guy. Maybe moving to England was a blessing in disguise as its the only reason I never carried on to do so with Stephen. Even now I can't bring myself to remove him from Facebook having known him these years, just so's I can have the satisfaction of hearing the end of the case and his words to validate my disappointment in a man I would have called a friend.
I have been a subscriber to this guy's channel for the better part of a decade, he was a major part of my rediscovering a love for robot wars back in the day being basically the only person on the internet other than me who seemed to give a shit, videos of the old cardboard models of the machines he made as a child where heart-warming and inspirational for me to try and get back into mechanical engineering. watching his channel grow and the videos he made around the show including a number with Natalie in them to the part where both of them managed to live out a childhood dream of being on the show during its 2017 reboot. everything about it was wholesome and inspirational. I'm hoping to god there is some kind of explanation for everything because the news is incredibly upsetting for a multitude of reasons.
So, i've been friends with Stephen for about several years now. I think the most bone chilling thing about this whole thing is that he just continued to post, and have a severely huge online presence, like NOTHING HAPPENED. He continued uploading, posting on social media. Hell, his most recent personal Facebook post was on the 26th of January. The fact that he was hoping he could ride this out for that long is disgusting. Hope justice is served. In the end, he wanted a lot of people noticing him. Guess he got his wish. My thoughts are with Natalie's family.
As gross as that is, that’s probably the smart thing to do. If he had started reacting differently, it would bring even more suspicion on him. It’s chilling to think about. I hope they consider it pre-meditated and he gets put away for a long while.
I love how mature Charlie is whenever it’s a truly awful situation. Like if it’s about a company being stupid he’s much more lighthearted but when it’s murder or other awful shit he drops that and acts very mature. Thank you and I’m proud of you Charlie.
im more than sad while watching this. i loved this guy for his robot wars videos. i used to watch him when i was younger. this nearly brought me to tears. i havent watched him in about 2 years but coming back to see this is horrifying.
This is so depressing to hear. This guy was a part of my childhood I use to love his videos on the new doctor who toys and replicas. My heart goes out to Natalie's family and I hope they get justice for the sickening thing he did.
I've noticed people go to great lengths to make the most routine and innocent things shady. I once scoffed at that notion thinking, "now, why would someone put that much effort into a lie, and while risking looking like a dumbass if their lies are seen and exposed?" But it would turn out that I was giving humanity too much credit
It’s the fact that as a 5th grader I used to watch this guy specifically a woody and buzz childhood toy video he had I used to watch his iron man videos too it shakes me how I just now learn this…
I assume the vast majority of people here never heard of this guy before, and for me the majority of these ‘horrible UA-camrs jailed’ situations weren’t channels I personally watched, at least very thoroughly. This guy’s channel however was the first one of those situations that truly hit me because I’m a Doctor Who fan and loved watching his reviews of science fiction toys, props and episodes ever since I was about 10 years old. He wasn’t my most watched UA-camr but I still came back to his videos quite regularly over the years, so imaginably this time I came back to a complete shock. This is now the most real example for me of never trusting anyone on the internet, crazy how the seemingly nicest and most down-to-Earth people can turn out sometimes.
I was on a podcast with this guy a few years ago. I'm so totally surprised Charlie has covered what's happening here in Northern Ireland but so glad he did. Truly a despicable situation.
@@washingmachinedoesntneedme4947 According to what people have said, he’s “incredibly nice” from how he seems on camera, it’s possible he was good at faking his personality.
Love how he said ireland 🇮🇪 it happened in Northern ireland. I live close to where natalie was from. Absolutely heartbreaking. Her home is still visited daily with people bringing flowers and messages for her family
Yea I remember this. This was on the day of the WC final. Whats crazy is that I literally live 10 minutes away from where she was killed. Rest In Peace Natalie.
@@warmateo6261 More like influencers are people too, and with such a large sample pool, there will of course be criminals among them - it may just seem like a lot because, as celebrities, their crimes get way more media coverage than normal
The fake stream he made for an alibi, rather than get him off the hook, proves that he premeditated the murder and therefore he can't even go for an insanity defense. He's like a Phoenix Wright villain. The next Twitch Killer will script replies to chat and have chatbots ask questions at the right time to make it more convincing (or even use an AI to make entire fake chat members.) He'll still be found out because the recording and the chatbots will be discovered during investigation.
I used to watch all this guy's Doctor Who videos forever ago...he always seemed like a great guy, I even went back and reminisced on the channel a few months ago... Really hits hard, surreal af
The fact he said Natalie in the live stream is crazy. Luckily, evil people can't ever shut up because they are either tormented or proud of themselves.
@@Songbearer actually yeah I am convinced now, thought it just sounded that way because of the accent but the little laugh he does right before he says it is a giveaway fs
I watched this guy all the time when I was 6-ish. This has shocked me. There were no indications at all from what I can remember from his content. Just funny, entertaining toy reviews. The passion he put into his videos was so evident, along with his unique style made his videos so special. It shocks me to my core that he could do anything like this, it’s just completely unimaginable, and unforgiveable.
Its really sickening that he recorded the video days before he committed the murder because it shows he had a multi step plan of how he was gonna get away with it
As a massive fan of doctor who I watched all his vids, I was such a huge fan of his, hearing this news hurt me so much, I remember tuning into the stream a few times and knowing what that stream truly was covering up is actually horrifying, I hope the victims family get the justice they deserve and I hope he’s locked up for a long fucking time, rest in peace Natalie
I know it's not your usual niche, but the small handful of videos you have done on this kind of internet-related true crime are all really good, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more of these mixed in with your usual lighter goofy stuff from time to time.
I remember watching him a lot and he was one of the main reasons how I got into doctor who and started collection things. When I saw the thumbnail of this video and saw his face I realized how familiar it was seeing it again and now actually knowing it's him is just crazy to me. I used to be a fan of his stuff so hearing this now is kinda devastating, I would've never expected someone like him to do that to someone. Rest in peace to Natalie and I wish for the best to the family and hope they get justice for Natalie's death.
@@benadkins8153 known the man for 10 years. Was very family oriented especially with his mom and dad. I genuinely can not understand why he would do something like this. Not sure I feel comfortable with him saying my name on some of his videos and how deceitful he tried to make the livestream video.
Im so sorry man.I was such a big fan of his,I remember literally counting down the mins for his dr who spoilerific reviews.Literally the whole reason i kept up with the show for a while.Genuinely lost for words rn…
@@UniverseIndistries Honestly I feel so much for Anthony. That man has to be absolutely crushed right now, antweight anarchy is tainted by this and he was so close to Stephen. I hope he's doing alright with all of this.
i actually live in the town where this happened, it is genuinely one of the most shocking things that has happened in this country recently, even though Northern Ireland has been through terrorist attacks and all this is just bizarre. There have been rallies and memorials for the woman who lost her life
This is frightening. If he is the murderer, the fact that he had a fake livestream not only saved on his computer, but just sitting there for so long, is very damning
Dude went through all of that effort to create a fake livestream only to make it as obvious as possible in said livestream that he's the murderer. Actual scooby doo villain.
Guilt 101
It literally sounds like some dialogue of someone lying out of a children's cartoon. Can't believe he thought this didn't sound suspicious.
@@krazyxki when you're very dumb, stupid things sound good.
@@casteanpreswyn7528 True, I guess it's good that he was because it'll probably add more years to his sentence.
He literally played a mission called “waste the wife”
It’s crazy how shady this guy is to think of putting a prerecorded live stream to try and cover up a murder. Pretty eerie how it was posted on Christmas and the guy acts or attempts to be heartwarming throughout it.
yeah, but how do we know he is not innocent? being weird doesn't mean he is 100% guilty. all of this feels pretty weird
@@Fred-tz7hs why comment this ? Read the reports before commenting. Cringe
@@Fred-tz7hs 😐
@@Fred-tz7hs 🤡
@@Fred-tz7hs Oh look, everyone. Looks like we found the murder's alt account. 🤣
He probably thought he was a genius for pre-recording a video to fake a livestream for an alibi but ultimately he set himself up for an inescapable first degree murder charge because that is irrevocable proof of premeditation.
the alibi he created was pure dunning kruger. police figured it out in like 5 seconds lol
so it's not as bad if you murder someone in the heat of the moment vs thinking of doing it beforehand?
@@sisi5444 yeah, that's right, if you plan a murder it's wayyy worse than walking randomly down the street and shooting the first person you come across
@@sisi5444 ???
@@sisi5444 that's second degree murder, according to my shitty knowledge.
The fact that a UA-camr I grew up watching not only murdered a pregnant woman, but planned it at least *days* in advance, is honestly terrifying, and I feel sick for having supported him - especially now knowing that some of my words of encouragement were given after he cruelly stole an innocent life and an unborn one.
Rest in peace, Natalie and child.
Master of puppets are pulling your strings
Holy crap I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I watched his Doctor who toy reviews when I was a kid and now I realize that it was all stupid and none of his jokes where even funny. This whole case is absolutely horrifying.
@@linglongz9713I used to watch this guy because I thought he had the most high quality reviews of all the sonic screwdrivers and other toys and this is just.. yeah. My heart dropped when Charlie said mostly doctor who, and dropped even further when I seen the name.
Ya I used to watch him too so it was shocking to find out he's a cold blooded killer makes me feel uneasy but Thanks moist for shining light on to this, it's even wired because I looked back on that murders yt channel I was still subscribed to him I can tell you that didn't stay for much longer
not everyone you see online is good or what u think
This dude even showed up to the funeral and chatted with parents.
Wow.
he even showed up to the rally against women’s violence after her murder
@@caroline7271 he even showed up to dinner late
I mean it's a good idea if you're the killer.
@@blox3400 wdym? he committed 2
murders?
@@caroline7271 nah, i was just making a stupid joke.
gotta love that the lawyer said "the livestream being fake isn't a basis for accusing him!" Even though it was never the basis. He was already accused and that was his alibi which was proven to be falsified
Yup! He was the one that tried to use it as his alibi… innocent people don’t need to lie so obviously he’s guilty in some fashion if he’s lying about where he is. I 100% think he did it, there’s too much evidence there.
he just doin his job nigga
how did he ever pass the bar 🤦♂️
Ehk.. furry
As a student in his final year of law school, there are some mind-bogglingly incompetent lawyers out there. The best thing to do when your client is almost certainly guilty is to shut up and work on mitigating circumstances.
Fucking disgraceful, as someone who’s Irish and realises how small our country is it’s shocking that something like this could happen so close to home.
Ik. Rewatching this video it always shakes me to the core how easily this could have happened to someone I know since it’s such a small country (I also have family members living in Lurgan.) This man is truly psychotic doing this to a pregnant woman no less. I hope Natalie’s family are doing ok.
Same I’m Irish and still live here I never knew this case existed until today
@@galaxyred7
may be because it happened specifically in northern ireland, different country different news coverage etc
i still find it difficult to believe the info wouldnt spread between the two parts of the island due to it being such a massive case, but it atleast makes a little sense
He suffers from the dunning krueger effect definitely. He honestly believed he had covered all of his bases, so much so that he went through with a murder. He was like "only someone smarter than me could crack this case and good luck trying to find someone smarter than me"
Lived in a fantasy world
There’s always something truly horrifying and disgusting about watching someone making calculated decisions well in advance to try and murder someone. Somehow the idea that they’ve been planning this for a while with their unintoxicated minds just takes the creep factor up a few notches.
He seemed pretty intoxicated to me
Thats why its called first degree, baby
It's a limited plus side, but a positive here in regards to getting justice for his poor victim is that the demonstrably false livestream is likely a great case for the argument of premeditation. The guy who goes out of their way to construct an alibi for murder, demonstrating literal calculated forethought and planning isn't gonna get away with arguing it was an unplanned act, driven by emotion.
@@uyuyuy99 he recorded this days before the murder, so unless he was drunk for days on end then he was sober at some point during the premeditation. Try using your ears or maybe your brain (ideally a combination of both?) before you spew shit out of your mouth
I don't know why? There's always a reason for revenge! It's only prison that makes most people think twice.
As a former fan of his I can tell you one of the most disturbing parts about this is at the beginning of the year, he made a tweet talking about how "2022 was the worst year of my life.
You will never know the levels of suffering, loss, and cruelty I was subjected to, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm not ok, and I don't think I ever will fully be myself again. I've just lost too much."
To most of us it just seems like Stephen was going through another depressive episode. We didn't think he was basically admitting he murdered someone.
@@larion2336 But to hate someone that much, it's insane
@@larion2336 lmao victims rly cants win even when they’re stabbed to death there’s somehow a logical explanation to why they were killed. Like are you sure she didn’t do smthg to warrant her being stabbed to death while pregnant? How scary it is that you have to be liked by everyone and be on everyone’s good side and make no enemy ( basically be a doormat with no boundaries) in order to potentially not be killed .
@@larion2336 it really doesn't matter how much you hate someone, you shouldn't murder them..
@@larion2336 doesn't matter what the fucking story is, he murdered someone. I seriously doubt a pregnant woman had him _defending_ himself.
@@larion2336 depending on the reason I highly doubt he's a monster. Monsters kill for no reason other than to fulfill an urge or because and they like it and sometimes both. They also don't feel bad about it in the slightest. Guarantee there's a sad story here as to why he resorted to murder as an answer but yeah I doubt we'll ever hear it because everyone will just assume he's the big bad villain and she's just an innocent victim. Not saying she couldn't just be an innocent victim but most people don't just target someone to murder on a whim.
The senior detective in charge of this case (John Caldwell) was brutally attacked in a premeditated attempt at murder a few days ago and is currently in critical condition. They've just arrested a 6th person today for it.
It's really interesting to see such a massive content creator share this story from my small home country. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing it!
Looks like he has a lot of targets on his back. I guess that’s unavoidable when you handle that many high-profile cases.
Hope he recovers soon, one article said his condition remains critical but stable.
And people say detectives have it safer than cops. Sending well wishes to this absolute madlad
Northern Ireland is the Baltimore of the UK. Absolute wacky place. The wild west of the UK 😂
Bit cringe you’re making this about you on the basis you’re from N Ireland
The fact this happened 20 minutes from me is crazy. So much planning went into this, its honestly horrifying.
Big story over here in Northern Ireland. The amount of planning that has went into the murder is scary. Recording a "livestream", changing his clothes after being on the bus, wearing 2 pairs of gloves etc. And all of that a week before Christmas and she was pregnant.
No way…. Pregnant? Omg :(
Inarguably premeditated murder is less common than one might think. I hope it never becomes a casual news story.
Happened in Lurgan did it?
@@dat1irishguy230 yeah it did, i’m from lurgan and the whole place is still in shock
he worked for the Belfast Telegraph as well apparently...
I was the one who mentioned it on your stream! We found out because it was big news here in the UK and Ireland. My boyfriend was a huge fan of his stuff and was devastated, and as soon as I found out I basically rushed to your stream to see your take on it and to hopefully raise awareness of what human beings can be capable of. Best wishes go out to Natalie's family and friends, this is a huge tragedy and I hope they can find peace. R.I.P
Sorry to your boyfriend. Used to enjoy a UA-camr myself till it came out they were a ped
Tho being a murderer must be worse
Thank you for sharing the story!
@@eldritchbeluga9277 Which UA-camr?
@@charliekelly735 most def miniladd
@@eldritchbeluga9277 omg was it Cyrus?
I was very proud to see almost all of Doctor Who UA-cam's biggest names immediately posting their condolences to Natalie's family after the news broke. I never particularly watched VoteSaxon07, but he was referred to fairly often by others, and I was as shocked as everybody else. Justice for Natalie.
I'm a big Doctor Who fan, so I used to watch his content for years. His actions are pure evil, and I can't believe I ever thought of him as a decent bloke.
There was so much premeditated planning and even aftercare planning to make sure this would be the perfect crime. That is so extremely disturbing and I feel so horrible for the woman's family. I hope her and her child can find peace.
The best part though, is that the live stream is very obviously not live and he admitted to it later. Dude thought he was The Master but was actually K-9.
they died. how would they find peace?
@Riley Small I cannot believe I have to explain this: "I hope they find peace", essentially means "now that they are no longer in pain, I hope their family is able to recover."
Are you actually this fuckin dense or just trying to be and edgelord?
@@rileysmall4317 either there's an afterlife for her and her child or she's asleep forever. Seems a bit like peace.
@@halt348 she was only first maybe second trimester. She’s the only one going to the afterlife
As a Doctor Who fan I knew his channel and even watched a few of his videos every once in a while but wasn't a big fan. I immediately recognized his face in the thumbnail and let out an audible "oh no".
Absolutely chilling and disgusting, you'd never suspect this from him. Monsters lurk in the shadows.
And in the daylight
He was my go to sonic screwdriver reviewer back in the days
I generally never heard of him
I didn't know who it was in the video until I stopped it and looked. I'm devastated it was votesaxon07 I used to watch his sonic screwdriver reviews and other videos
Same, I watched one of his videos a few days ago. I am disgusted.
Man, there's something so creepy about a villain obsessed with collecting superhero toys.
Can’t believe I watched this guy for years and he was capable of these things
i cant believe how i havent found any of the people i consistently watch do this after all these years
every human is capable of murder, even you, or me
@@keycrafter7471 yeah its getting to the point where I think I should stop putting faith in random people online that I kinda like just based off of the content they make, respect the art not the artist I guess
@@terryfries just watch and have fun but just never hope the creator will be a good person
@@keycrafter7471 yep
Thanks Charlie for keeping me updated on news I would have probably never looked up.
Most evil streamer better than cringe streaming that Charlie does tbh!!!
You won the bot lottery congratulations
@@BaconWrapDonut As you have noticed, your balls have been covered in milk and breadcrumbs. Before you lies a KFC deep frier
Please bots, shut the fuck up. Please
Why watch the news when Charlie always keeps me up to date? 😅
The fact he mentioned her name in the "livestream" and also says that police cant solve files anymore show he is proud for his job. He feels like a 100 iq killer. That man would kill again if he does not end up in prison
I know we tend to joke about stuff like this and then kind of just forget about it within an hour and go on with our lives. But seeing a man on camera film a deliberately fake live stream hinting that he is going to murder someone and that same person is found later stabbed to death and you know that HE did it is just freaking terrifying and sickening. I mean you are literally looking at a man who is about to commit a murder and is completely aware of it. God Bless that poor family…
I first thought him saying Natalie was a stretch but it’s like he realizes what he accidentally said it and smiles in appreciation for the coincidence. Actually evil
Does he say Natalie in the clip shown here? I've watched it like 5 times and still don't hear it
@@Jasmine1998jewell when he says "abso-fucking- nat-lay". Nat-lay is Natalie with an Irish accent.
@@Jasmine1998jewell 6:11 ish time stamp
@@Jasmine1998jewell he says abso-f***ing-not-aly. Then when he repeats it his inflection is just a little different to make it sound more like Natalie, which with his accent didn't really sound like her name at first.
I know right? The way he laughs to himself as he realises his accidental play on words is fucking sickening. What a psycho.
This is absolutely heartbreaking. To think Natalie and her future baby lost their lives because of that scumbag. R.I.P. and I hope that pos gets an appropriate punishment for what he's done.
If he gets jailed at least there is solace in the fact that there are two things other prisoners hate more than cops.
Abusers of women, and abusers of children. Killing a pregnant woman is a fast track to getting fucked up.
Lmao cope
@@jerrybantamos9618Wtf is wrong with you, do you really think you’re funny?
@@jerrybantamos9618 Have some decency, a person just got killed this ain't nothing to joke about.
@@frames.try stop me🖕
Bro?? I used to watch this guys videos so much as a kid? He'd review doctor who toys and was actually pretty funny. Wow.. This is insane. May the innocent rest in peace and may their families get the justice they deserve
Dude me too, this feels so weird
Thank you for covering this case. It happened very close to me and it's beyond heartbreaking. Your helping people to remember Natalie's name, so thank you for that.
My aunties husband knew him and apparently he was a really creepy guy. Apparently he stalked one of his earlier girlfriends while she was at work and all, sick guy honestly I hope and pray that Natalie’s family get the justice they deserve
He hit a ex aswell a proper scumbag and now killer
NBA youngboy
Wut
sounds like a control freak who's paranoid
Yeah he made doctor who toy reviews as a grown man if you needed someone else to tell you he’s creepy then idk for you
Heart goes out Natalie's family and its heartbreaking seeing this news. Thank you for sharing this story to us charlie
Ngl Most evil streamer better than cringe streaming that Charlie does tbh!!!
Especially during the run up to Christmas, must have been horrible
@@boldiegoldie Probably one of the worst parts. She was probably looking forward to the holidays with her family
@@boldiegoldie Yeah, basically, it is just Reeflay after Reeflay.
fr
Bro the “abso-fucking-natalie”, little chuckle, and taking a shot right after, is evil villain 101
Of all UA-camrs who committed the murder, I did not expect to see someone I recognized. Watched his reviews of those Doctor Who sonic screwdriver TV remotes like 6+ years ago. Still have those remotes as well.
It's a sick feeling knowing someone seemingly innocuous had sone something so horrible. He's straight-up evil.
How horrific and tragic...her parents lost both a daughter and grandson, just before Christmas. God, I couldn't even imagine the pain her family is experiencing right now!
Have you tried asking them?
"God, I couldn't even imagine the pain her family is experiencing right now!"
Well you could ask Him, he allowed it to happen...
@did you have no content
@@firstnamelastname8790 Some religious people believe God created everything and gave men free will, but He has no control over whether or not we align ourselves with good or evil within our time on Earth. I'm an athiest, too, but these sort of "gotcha" comments are really annoying and only showcase your ignorance and your close-mindedness. You are that which you purport to be against.
@@terrabelle9937 actually referring to god as "he" or "she" is what's ignorant, if god is real then it'd make sense that god wouldn't be subjected to a gender lmfao
I’m in complete shock right now. I’ve been subbed to this dude for well over 10 years. Used to be a big Doctor Who fan when I was younger and watched all his toy/prop review videos. I straight up thought UA-cam was glitching when I saw his picture in the thumbnail
Dude fr i thought it was just someone who looked like him, its so weird
That has to be a pretty shitty feeling..
Kind of like how I felt when I found out about SkyDoesMinecraft, I used to watch him all the time when I was younger
I imagine what you feel is even worse though since this guy turned out to be a straight up murderer...
@@dusannestorovic5699 What happened with SkyDoesMinecraft? I used to watch him all the time as a kid but I haven’t updated myself on him for years now
I totally get that man...
I'd been subscribed to Stephen for over 10 years too, including his original channel being demonetised and wishing him well after his scary Keratoconus surgery, I loved his live action subscriber milestone specials, But I turned my back on him after he spat disgusting accusations about people who don't like the latest Doctor Who,
I unsubscribed from Stephen a few months ago because he essentially said anyone who doesn't like the latest Doctor Who is a Racist and or Homophobe which really stuck in my throat as a disgusting thing to say,
He didn't quite say it like I stated it was more like "If you don't like him, why else must you not like them other than being a Racist and or Homophobe" despite his whole thing being "Modern Doctor Who Acting, Direction and Writing being disgustingly awful" he sure changed his tune once the news told him to.
When I saw this whole situation my stomach dropped to the floor and felt sick...
@@steamyninja8881 yea
This murder actually happened in my hometown, apparently the man was her boyfriend and even attended her funeral under false pretences without anyone knowing he was the muderer
as an Irish person I knew of this tragic incident but I never knew it was also related to a live stream may she and her baby rest in piece…
ok gacha kid
@@8randnewcity 🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@8randnewcityok homestuck 💀
@@cowboycocks at least homestuck has june egbert built in. in gacha you gotta make june yourself
@@8randnewcitytone deaf
Used to love this guy when I was a kid getting into Doctor Who, I was in shock when I first heard the news. I hope Natalie's family can find peace, and that Stephen gets what's coming
Been watching him since i was 10
Every UA-camr has an "on-camera" persona, which is different to how they are in real life.
@@snozzlehead92 he's definitely changed, in person he was still as nice. I think his parents Death may of had a massive effect on him
@@robbiemartin9312 People lose their parents all the time they don't kill a innocent pregnant woman
@@leejones8582 not everybody's the same
At this point I'm convinced Twitch chat are scrolling 24/7 for any degree of news.
It's honestly impressive how fast they relay information to Charlie.
@Patrick39 You're butter?
Charlie getting private intelligence reports like he's Lyndon LaRouche.
That is the biggest strength of the internet, it connects most of humanity and allows it to share information almost instantly
@Patrick39 Nope
Well they don’t go outside they’re on the internet all day it would be concerning if they weren’t this fast
This is the type of case Columbo would solve in an episode
The fact he done it just is disgusting, especially to a woman 15 weeks pregnant. I live in Northern Ireland, believe me when I tell you, if he by chance managed to get away with it, there's people who will get him, anyone from the North or South know that.
This happened very close to where I live, thank you for bringing attention to this story. Hope this man is never allowed into society again
I'm not better than penguinz0, my content is not better (it does not exist).
@@Zarkarin LOL
He'll be out in 25 years.... Sadly, That's literally how the justice system works...
@@Zarkarin zased
@@ireallyreallyreallylikethisimg Well, to be fair, if he's rehabilitated by that time, it's fine. That's why most prisons in Europe are better than those in the US; They actually try to rehabilitate people. The question is of course if he even CAN be rehabilitated. Only time can tell.
The other main scary part was him "accidentally" flashing a "no time to die" poster on the screen, supposedly around the time he would have been in her house during the livestream. Lots of unhinged moments in there from what I saw, he basically made himself look way worse doing it, even if it helped him in the short term.
@MSMEG IX no one cares
This just makes it sound like he was planning to get caught in some way lmao
@@CrystalRose1111 or super drunk which he was
Oh you're the corruption guy! love ur vids man
Instead of this video being used to give him an alibi. It will now most likely be one of the key pieces of evidence to prove at least second-degree murder
Found his channel due to my obsession with Battlebots and robot combat in general. Never thought he would do something like this. Hope the family recovers as best as they can
Listening to your videos on autoplay in the background, I can't express enough my surprise to hear Natalies name.
Here in Northern Ireland it's been such a big deal since it happened, the entire country was absolutely heartbroken and furious. To think the culprit is somebody so many of us knew - both irl and as a UA-cam is absolutely disgusting. She was a bright, cheerful and lovely woman who had her whole life ahead of her. Thank you so much for covering this story, because I believe her name deserves to be heard.
I live in Lisburn and almost everyone in my city knows the streamer and one of my mum's friends daughter dated him at one point
@@dhdhhd9647 someone mentioned their relative who knew him, said he seemed creepy and stalked his past girlfriend, while that may be years ago, guess it wasn´t the same person?
@@Tropicanine honestly could've been haha cuz that's exactly what my mum's friend said abt him that he stalked her after they broke up n sent her horrible messages
that guy is a maniac
this story really struck me. I’ve actually interacted with Stephen McCullagh (VoteSaxon07) for a few years through his streams. Been in the same community as him for several years too and have met him when he came to London for Comic Con.
what’s also sad is that Stephen had a very close friend called Anthony who did videos together with him (The Doctor Who Spoilerific Reviews on Stephen’s channel) and before this happened he was a very upbeat, funny and just all round happy guy and since the news came out he’s basically gone into a deep depression and has even said he doesn’t want to wake up anymore.
I just hope that the lives ruined by Stephen can get justice.
Edit: others have informed me that thankfully people have reached out to Anthony and he now seems to be doing better.
I really hope Anthony is doing well. This has got to be awful for him.
Wishing Anthony the best in such a horrible horrible situation
@@Kukuwu You know what to do
That close friend of Stephen is a fucking drama queen. Sure, it's awful that he killed someone but this friend has no direct connection to the murder other than he knew the guy.
Sounds like this friend needs to grow the fuck up and get over himself.
He's gonna be ok, unlike the woman that got murdered.
It seems like Anthony has left the internet as he’s deleted his Twitter and removed all of his UA-cam videos (many of them featured Stephen so I’m not surprised). I just hope he’s ok.
The most chilling thing is, how premeditated this MURDER was! This was not an act of passion but preplanned under the belief that he would get away with it.
Imagine if he did get away with it? Whose to say he wouldn’t do this to another person?!?
Thank goodness all those involved in the investigation did an ace job!
May the victim rest easy and her family are given the time and space they need to grieve.
mhm.
Do premeditated murders have longer prison sentences? I remember being told at some point that they do
@@armintor2826 i believe so. Considering u actually planned it as opposed to not premeditated
@MSMEG IX Troll
@@armintor2826 depends on your local law but in most countries yes, crimes that were planned out tend to carry longer or harsher punishment that Spur of the moment emotional crimes
I used to watch this guy all the time when I was super into Doctor Who and loved his sonic screwdriver reviews. Wild how things work out...
I'm the same, although Votesaxon07 has influenced me permanently, contributing to me being a collector myself and my mild obsession with Sonic Screwdriver replicas that I've had for nearly 15 years. It has all left a sour taste in my mouth.
@@TheIshikawaRinSame here. I just learned about this whole thing because I wanted to see if he reviewed the new sonic screwdriver.
This actually got to me because I used to watch Stephen way back then, and to see him do this is just horrifying. I do hope justice comes to Natalie and her family.
Couldn't believe the news when I heard it. Its a big story here in Ireland, the fact this happened 10 minutes from where I live is shocking. Its horrible thinking that someone so cruel and disgusting can exist in the community here. Thoughts and condolences for the McNally family absolutely heartbroken for their loss 🙏
Been the only main story here in Northern Ireland since it happened. Everyone’s still in shock over it.
@oh no cringe detector we meet again my age old enemy.
The one thing we can be thankful for about this. Is atleast you and i live in countries where this kind of thing is a shock horror and not a common occurance.
@@skeletondude720 hahaha
My condolences to the family.
That poor mother and child. So young and had a family coming. I pray justice is served
What was the motive for the murder? Was the baby she was pregnant with not his child?
What makes it so evil is how premeditated it is! That’s not in a fit of rage or moment of insanity! That’s cold and calculated! And the arrogance or mentioning her name in the “live” stream? That’s a proper psycho
Weird seeing this talked about. We go over to Northern Ireland for Christmas to see my wife's family, and we weren't far from Lisburn at all. Remember it on the news and her family talking about it. Mental.
The creepiest thing about this is that I have thought about this before, like "would that be a golden ticket out of a murder case if you set this up as an alibi and had like pre-planned messages in the chat to respond to or like an exact phone call to match up to reports?"
And to think someone would actually try it is haunting
It is kind of creepy that you were trying to think of ways to get away with killing someone
@@aSinisterKiid no its not, morbid curiosity is completely natural
@@-Roche- Nah it's not completely natural. It's a rather niche concept that most people don't even consider at any point in their life. Not everyone sits around trying to think about how to get away with murder.
@@aSinisterKiid I totes get where you're coming from, but I don't think its that deep
@@aSinisterKiid You can play internet psychologist in the youtube comments all you want but you're still wrong. Also how are you gonna claim most people haven't thought about it? Have you interviewed everyone in the world except me?
My heart goes out to Natalie’s family and it’s heartbreaking seeing this news. Thank you for sharing this story with us Charlie
I hope the family gets justice and that he gets the punishment he deserves. What an absolutely sickening human being he is. The lengths he went to, to have an alibi is just.. I can’t believe it. I mean what is even the motive behind this? Was it his baby?
@Patrick39 dont care bozo
*Pretends to not be monster*
Like seriously this man will definitely get charged with double counts of murder or murder and murder of a minor which it means it would be life sentence or death penalty if "Beyond shadow of a doubt" is rule in court when it comes to cases so severe. Just to be clear im not exactly familiar in legal system but I definitely know this man wont come out of prison for majority if not rest of his life or be executed
@@KL53986 do they still do executions? I thought they no longer did that
does it? really?
This guy's plan is REALLY easy to see through, what sold him out is the fact that he kept mentioning the "i am live, i cannot see the chat" over and over
I hope Natalie’s family can get at least a bit of closure and I hope this man gets put behind bars for a LONG time. It’s truly heartbreaking that they’ve lost not just Natalie, but a future member of their family as well.
Thank you for shedding light on this horrible incident, R.I.P Natalie you'll be greatly missed 💚🇮🇪🖤
Why isn’t Charlie covering the Pfizer executive busted for admitting that they are deliberately mutating Covid to sell their drugs? That is way more evil than this topic.
@oh no cringe detector how to get attention 101 👍
L bozo
@MMA mustache martial arts. don't forget her unborn baby
Thats in northern ireland, Britain. Not ireland lol
I never thought this would ever happen. I used to watch him when I was younger and was just getting into Doctor Who. Rest in peace to Natalie and her unborn child. I'm still in shock about this.
@@user-cb9cd5qj6k Man talks about something that happened in his dream
youre not 'in shock'. Stop attention seeking ffs
@@am-shak I'm not seeking attention. It's just that it's crazy when someone you watched in your childhood turns out to be a murderer. Like you don't expect those kinds of things to happen (unless you had a more cynical view of the world).
@@CPS747-8 well yes ofc, but youre not in shock. Are you shaking and sweating because of this? No, ofc not. So dont say youre in shock.
@@am-shak calm down there mate, it's a figure of speech
Bro i live in Ireland haven't heard anything about this ,, heartbreaking r.i.p
I actually watched a UA-camr who covered this too a couple days ago, on Kavos channel.
Glad to see you covered this too.
RIP to Natalie and her baby. And condolences for her family and friends 🕊️🕊️
Charlie, I lived local to Natalie. Thank you for sharing this story. It was very important to highlight and I glad you've done so via your platform.
That must be really tough for you and your community. I wish you the best
@@MadLad07 Stephen mccullagh lives down the road from me
@@Lufeoo me too fuxking madness
@@jozh2507 down in lambeg like I’m only down in lisburn fs
@@Lufeoo me too mate I'm from lisburn I was so shocked to hear about
This happened 10 minutes from my house. Everyone was talking about it and people were concerned 7 weeks had gone by with no clear suspect. Feel so bad for the family as he was at the funeral, in their house, and made a video about her life that was played at a vigil that was held for her. So sick. I've also heard from friends in the police that he can't be charged with the murder of the unborn baby, which seems really wrong too. I just hope he gets life without parole in prison and has an awful existence for the rest of his life
yes it was weird when it was obvious someone close to her did it and the police had no suspect ...i guess we know why he was let go at first
if he was charged with murder of the unborn baby then everyone getting abortions would also have to get murder charges
yeah because murder of an unborn baby isnt a thing, murder of a pregnant woman could be a dedicated crime but otherwise you would have to define if its a life or not and then you would have to define when life begins, which you know, is BS used to basically control woman having babies they don’t want, not so fun fact is that murder is actually the most common cause of death of pregnant women
@@topgeorge6908 i don’t know the laws where they’re at about things like murdering someone who is pregnant, but there is a pretty big difference between someone else brutally taking the life of an expecting mother and her baby and a woman legally choosing what to do with her own body
@@topgeorge6908 It actually is often considered double-homicide in the states if I'm not mistaken... This didn't take place in the U.S. though.
About 3-4 years ago now, I used to watch this guy's channel for reviews of the engineering show 'Robot Wars' as he actually was part of one of the teams on the show on a season. Would have never expected something like this and just goes to show that you can never trust someone solely from what they choose to show online. Rest in peace to Natalie.
Can you remember what team/robot? I fucking loved that show.
@@mandero8842 Push to Exit. I can't imagine it will stay up if the guy is found guilty but Stephen still has a compilation of his team on TV and lets just say it hasn't aged very well...
Aside from the obvious primary victims of Stephen, I really feel for the guys around him though as well. To have spent great time and money to get on a show only for its legacy to now be tarnished by such a monster must be the most humiliating and scary thought that a future murderer was once by your side as a 'friend'. In a way, cases like these kind of remind me of TCAP in how as well as the actual victim of the crime, the effects it can have on both the victim and perpetrator's close circle can be similarly as devastating.
There was a lovely display for Natalie at the Armagh GAA game this weekend. Was nice to see both sets of fans come together.
Honestly, horrors of this story aside, the fact that he believed it would work for a second as an alibi despite how unusual and suspicious a chat-less stream is in the first place, how awkwardly acted his "technical issues" were, how many evidence he sloppily left behind, and especially how he kept a full proof of his forgery on his computer makes this whole charade sad. He must absolutely have felt like a genius while putting his plan together, but it's the most predictable outcome you could come up with with that kind of setup and anyone with a tiny bit of technical knowledge could immediately disprove that alibi completely.
He could have not bothered with the whole livestream part in the first place and he would have had a better chance at getting away with it ; I guess in the end it's almost a good thing he put so much effort into incriminating himself, if you ignore how messed up attempting to implicate his own viewers into his crime is.
I imagine that your mind stops working properly when you're about to murder someone. I know when I'm heavily stressed, I start doing things that don't really make sense and also become less careful. I can't even imagine the amount of stress that murdering someone would cause.
He has all his Christmas stuff still out with the hat on
He's definitely disproving the common misconception that psychopaths are good manipulators.
Well an stream as alibi isnt that impossible.
But i guess it needs a shitton of planning, and exact skript.
First take a game where you cant tab out properly, because it would bug out. Any old game. Stream it for some time. And i mean like weeks.
Then destroy your second monitor "accidentally" while livestreaming. Order a new one live. Choose one with a bit of delivery time, i mean you will use it as your new main screen so why not choose a good one. The two weeks with only one monitor are fine, you can read chat on your phone, right?
Now we get to the core. Record a "livestream". Interact with one or two chat messages in the beginning, maybe another one 20 minutes in. Say how sad you are, but apparently the phone didnt properly charge, due to a faulty usb cable. So no more reading chat on phone. After all that recording, play it on livestream. Send the messages you interact with on the video yourself, with a second account. And you are free to go. Destroy the USB-Stick completely. Not in the microwave, one can proove that you destroyed electronics in there.
But just to be clear: I dont think that would work. For so many reasons. You will still be seen. Im sure twitch can find out whether it was prerecorded or live, by some technical data like framerate and how stable that was, the source of the stream or whatever. NEver streamed so idk. And the second acc you interacted with on stream will eventually be traced back to you. So yeah, better, but still wont really work But still, this dude is completely stupid and did it the most retarded way.
When you read about murderers, you begin to realize that many of them are not deep thinkers.
That's absolutely disgusting I hope Natalie's family gets the justice they deserve.
dont you love how youtube comments is 85% bots.... weird.
On behalf of all the killers out there I wanna say that we don't condone this suspicious behavior.
@@davegross4768 What I love is spending 10 minutes getting rid of as many bot comments as i can.
@@davegross4768 only on chalies channel idk why his in particular is so fucking bad
@@davegross4768 Very annoying, especially the scammer ones. Anyway, *IM BETTER THAN PENGINZ, MY CONTENT IS BETTER* 😂
Absolutely disgusting man. My dad knew him and was friends with him and is still in complete shock. Rest in peace Natalie and baby 🤍
@@dontreadmyprofilepicture3765 Brooooooooo, is now really the time?
Its a bot, btw, hope your dad is able to recover from this, got no doubt he's probably going crazy mentally speaking seeing as his friend murdered someone
@@RobocopStealerOfFridgesignore bots
@@RobocopStealerOfFridges these bots are heartless. I mean, also literally, but y'know what I mean
@@NaughtiusMaximmus yeah lmao
i still can't comprehend this, i've watched his videos over the last 3 or so years, even interacted with him on a few occasions, he seemed like an affable guy. to find out that someone you thought you knew could potentially be capable of something so utterly calculating and heinous is just... like... i can't fully process the news coming out about him.
100% right about it not having a lot of coverage, I'm from Northern Ireland and I live about 40 minutes away from where it happened and this is literally the first video/article I have seen mention it.
Rest In Peace to Natalie & her baby.
This whole situation pains me so so much, because I watch Steven as a kid all the time, his doctor who toy reviews gave me a new appreciations for the series and for how nice it is to hear some one talk about their interests, but to know he was capable of this just hurts.
My heart goes out to Natalie and I know he's going to get exactly what he deserves
I watched him aswell damnit
me too, this sucks to see
I mean anyone’s capable of murdering someone in grand reality it’s not that hard. Unless you have morals and this dude is a Moral-less piece of human trash.
Glad to see you followed a lying murderer. 😂
We were watching all this on the news here and keeping up with what was happening with it, surprised to see Charlie cover it cause people usually don't care about Ireland so thanks.
Also one thing to mention that we saw watching our news, this guy was evil enough to turn up to McNally's Vigil and even chat away to her parents after the murder.
jesus i heard this on the news but I would never think that critical would cover it
@@tango_cathal2029 right? horrible act but im glad charlies able to talk about it
They almost always show up to the vigil/funeral
@@christiangasior4244 yep, when it’s a premeditated murder they’re always proud of what they’ve done and will always admire their work up close, compared to someone who kills in the moment and might feel guilty
Why did he kill her ? Was that his gf or wife ?
I feel sickened that I was ever in the process of starting collabs with this guy. Maybe moving to England was a blessing in disguise as its the only reason I never carried on to do so with Stephen. Even now I can't bring myself to remove him from Facebook having known him these years, just so's I can have the satisfaction of hearing the end of the case and his words to validate my disappointment in a man I would have called a friend.
if overthinking were a person ^
I have been a subscriber to this guy's channel for the better part of a decade, he was a major part of my rediscovering a love for robot wars back in the day being basically the only person on the internet other than me who seemed to give a shit, videos of the old cardboard models of the machines he made as a child where heart-warming and inspirational for me to try and get back into mechanical engineering.
watching his channel grow and the videos he made around the show including a number with Natalie in them to the part where both of them managed to live out a childhood dream of being on the show during its 2017 reboot. everything about it was wholesome and inspirational. I'm hoping to god there is some kind of explanation for everything because the news is incredibly upsetting for a multitude of reasons.
So, i've been friends with Stephen for about several years now. I think the most bone chilling thing about this whole thing is that he just continued to post, and have a severely huge online presence, like NOTHING HAPPENED. He continued uploading, posting on social media. Hell, his most recent personal Facebook post was on the 26th of January.
The fact that he was hoping he could ride this out for that long is disgusting. Hope justice is served.
In the end, he wanted a lot of people noticing him.
Guess he got his wish.
My thoughts are with Natalie's family.
Imagine how many fucks do this and carry on forever with no care in the world
Can't even begin to imagine how you've been dealing with all this, just an awful thing to find out :(
As gross as that is, that’s probably the smart thing to do. If he had started reacting differently, it would bring even more suspicion on him. It’s chilling to think about. I hope they consider it pre-meditated and he gets put away for a long while.
What... Like literally what else would he do instead? Why are you shocked that hes not walking around with a giant poster saying "I dun it"???
@@joycereed6952 He could have offed himself and saved the police some trouble.
I love how mature Charlie is whenever it’s a truly awful situation.
Like if it’s about a company being stupid he’s much more lighthearted but when it’s murder or other awful shit he drops that and acts very mature.
Thank you and I’m proud of you Charlie.
@@-_-sneezy Well excuse me for being happy. There’s so many immature idiots now that I just felt like he deserved some praise
This is crazy. I live in Ireland, watch the news every day and didn't hear about this.
im more than sad while watching this. i loved this guy for his robot wars videos. i used to watch him when i was younger. this nearly brought me to tears. i havent watched him in about 2 years but coming back to see this is horrifying.
This is so depressing to hear. This guy was a part of my childhood I use to love his videos on the new doctor who toys and replicas. My heart goes out to Natalie's family and I hope they get justice for the sickening thing he did.
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@Dont Read Profile Picture this is the most despicable way of trying to make views on youtube get a life
This is truly sickening. The length that people go to hide their evilness is absolutely astonishing.
I've noticed people go to great lengths to make the most routine and innocent things shady. I once scoffed at that notion thinking, "now, why would someone put that much effort into a lie, and while risking looking like a dumbass if their lies are seen and exposed?"
But it would turn out that I was giving humanity too much credit
Skill issue
@@chuckshartz2722 there is potential for darkness in everyone
Alot of people don't hide being they just hide their crimes.
@@jasonolinger7585 Don’t know if I fully agree with that. I think a small portion of the population has no potential for darkness. It’s not everyone
It’s the fact that as a 5th grader I used to watch this guy specifically a woody and buzz childhood toy video he had I used to watch his iron man videos too it shakes me how I just now learn this…
I assume the vast majority of people here never heard of this guy before, and for me the majority of these ‘horrible UA-camrs jailed’ situations weren’t channels I personally watched, at least very thoroughly. This guy’s channel however was the first one of those situations that truly hit me because I’m a Doctor Who fan and loved watching his reviews of science fiction toys, props and episodes ever since I was about 10 years old. He wasn’t my most watched UA-camr but I still came back to his videos quite regularly over the years, so imaginably this time I came back to a complete shock. This is now the most real example for me of never trusting anyone on the internet, crazy how the seemingly nicest and most down-to-Earth people can turn out sometimes.
I was on a podcast with this guy a few years ago.
I'm so totally surprised Charlie has covered what's happening here in Northern Ireland but so glad he did. Truly a despicable situation.
How was he like?
@@washingmachinedoesntneedme4947 He's gonna have a fake persona for UA-cam he is a psycho hope they throw away the key
@@washingmachinedoesntneedme4947 According to what people have said, he’s “incredibly nice” from how he seems on camera, it’s possible he was good at faking his personality.
@@washingmachinedoesntneedme4947 very pleasant guy tbh, but a bit dry after the podcast was over. Never heard from him since.
Love how he said ireland 🇮🇪 it happened in Northern ireland. I live close to where natalie was from. Absolutely heartbreaking. Her home is still visited daily with people bringing flowers and messages for her family
Yea I remember this. This was on the day of the WC final. Whats crazy is that I literally live 10 minutes away from where she was killed. Rest In Peace Natalie.
I literally grew up watching this guy. It's pretty shocking to discover someone that you had a modicum of respect for could do something like this.
Remove the modi out of modicum 😏
Jokes aside I’m not suprised, influencers are known for doing heinous crimes
@@warmateo6261 More like influencers are people too, and with such a large sample pool, there will of course be criminals among them - it may just seem like a lot because, as celebrities, their crimes get way more media coverage than normal
@@warmateo6261 CUM🤯🤯
Omg same here, I loved doctor who and child me watched this channel for the toy reviews lmao. Real crazy to see.
The fake stream he made for an alibi, rather than get him off the hook, proves that he premeditated the murder and therefore he can't even go for an insanity defense. He's like a Phoenix Wright villain.
The next Twitch Killer will script replies to chat and have chatbots ask questions at the right time to make it more convincing (or even use an AI to make entire fake chat members.) He'll still be found out because the recording and the chatbots will be discovered during investigation.
Yeah that's what I'll do... I mean what I would hypothetically do 😏
he reminds me of furio tigre in the tres bien case, acting out the death of the victim just for a witness
The next one will probably get his bffs to help cover it up for him with promises that he will “pay” them back in the future.
the insanity defense is actually bad and really fucks you for life
@@puppetstudio4989 idk man sometimes people prefer getting away with a crime rather than a life sentence and potentially a death sentence.
This guy was my aunty's neighbour in lisburn. He was a HUGE freak apparently. He used to speak to her and i was with her 1 time. He was odd
He looks like a total loon.
I used to watch all this guy's Doctor Who videos forever ago...he always seemed like a great guy, I even went back and reminisced on the channel a few months ago...
Really hits hard, surreal af
This happened not even a mile from my home. We're all terrified and heartbroken.
I also live very locally, it’s heartbreaking but i’m so glad that it’s finally gaining attention internationally. I hope he rots
Scary stuff dude, hope your alright. Things always seem that much more real when their close to you.
Same here. He's actually my mum's cousin but have never met him. Disgusting man.
Same here. Absolutely mental stuff
We don’t cares
The fact he said Natalie in the live stream is crazy. Luckily, evil people can't ever shut up because they are either tormented or proud of themselves.
Sounded to me like he was saying "absofuckingnotly" like absolutely fucking not
@@michaelwilkins1664 he did the first time round, but the second time he says it he definitely said "absofuckin-atalie". I missed it too initially.
@@Songbearer actually yeah I am convinced now, thought it just sounded that way because of the accent but the little laugh he does right before he says it is a giveaway fs
sometimes i forget what video im watching from you since it takes so long to get into the topic of the video but it only took a minute this time
I watched this guy all the time when I was 6-ish. This has shocked me. There were no indications at all from what I can remember from his content. Just funny, entertaining toy reviews. The passion he put into his videos was so evident, along with his unique style made his videos so special. It shocks me to my core that he could do anything like this, it’s just completely unimaginable, and unforgiveable.
Its really sickening that he recorded the video days before he committed the murder because it shows he had a multi step plan of how he was gonna get away with it
In a video where he incriminates himself again and again, using it as an alibi.
What a dum dum!
@@ThaTruFily Criminals are all very stupid.
As a massive fan of doctor who I watched all his vids, I was such a huge fan of his, hearing this news hurt me so much, I remember tuning into the stream a few times and knowing what that stream truly was covering up is actually horrifying, I hope the victims family get the justice they deserve and I hope he’s locked up for a long fucking time, rest in peace Natalie
i cant believe youre trying to act like this hurt you but I had to grow up watching Morrowind become Skyrim over the years. Check your privileges.
@@SobeCrunkMonster what in the actual fuck is wrong with you?
@@SobeCrunkMonster I hope this is satire dude
Sanest doctor who stan
Me too man I was like hold on. Wow!!
I know it's not your usual niche, but the small handful of videos you have done on this kind of internet-related true crime are all really good, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more of these mixed in with your usual lighter goofy stuff from time to time.
This happend close to where I live. Very sad and evil
Hope your ok
I remember watching him a lot and he was one of the main reasons how I got into doctor who and started collection things. When I saw the thumbnail of this video and saw his face I realized how familiar it was seeing it again and now actually knowing it's him is just crazy to me. I used to be a fan of his stuff so hearing this now is kinda devastating, I would've never expected someone like him to do that to someone. Rest in peace to Natalie and I wish for the best to the family and hope they get justice for Natalie's death.
Crazy stuff man. Had the exact same thoughts/reactions. RIP Natalie.
@@slatercarpenter6090 why did he do it though
I watched him for 10 years was still subscribed to him when I found out had no idea this had happened is so evil hope he rots
@Patrick39 Someone fucking died. Have some respect
Don't stop loving the show cuz of this shit, there are plenty of great Whotubers out there like Tharries, Jay Exci or even Nerd Den
Was a prior friend of mine, lent him some rare props from Doctor who to review. Can’t believe he has done this, absolutely horrific what he has done.
I used to watch his videos a lot for his sonic screwdriver reviews, it feels really weird knowing that I loved those videos
@@benadkins8153 known the man for 10 years. Was very family oriented especially with his mom and dad. I genuinely can not understand why he would do something like this. Not sure I feel comfortable with him saying my name on some of his videos and how deceitful he tried to make the livestream video.
AND on top of that, he screwed Anthony and their own battle bots channel and Facebook page to boot because of it too.
Im so sorry man.I was such a big fan of his,I remember literally counting down the mins for his dr who spoilerific reviews.Literally the whole reason i kept up with the show for a while.Genuinely lost for words rn…
@@UniverseIndistries Honestly I feel so much for Anthony. That man has to be absolutely crushed right now, antweight anarchy is tainted by this and he was so close to Stephen. I hope he's doing alright with all of this.
i actually live in the town where this happened, it is genuinely one of the most shocking things that has happened in this country recently, even though Northern Ireland has been through terrorist attacks and all this is just bizarre. There have been rallies and memorials for the woman who lost her life
This is so sad and tragic. I wonder what motivated him to do these things. So awful. Thanks for the vid Charlie.
Probably entitlement. Entitlement to her body, entitlement to her life... some sort of entitlement.
This is frightening. If he is the murderer, the fact that he had a fake livestream not only saved on his computer, but just sitting there for so long, is very damning