Moji support? big rework incoming
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- so err... dunno why this is happening. If people are going to insist that Moji is terrible and that the rework is great in the comments I'd like to ask that you also state your Moji level alongside the comment.
(forgot to put the clips in the video, I didn't have time nor the energy to put clips in 8:40, so apologies about the greenscreen) (also before you just dismiss me as a hater who dislikes change, I don't inherently dislike the idea, I am just very concerned about the execution and the lack of communication)
Welcome to the yap sesh, the satiety cascade is giving the seminar today.
Just don't know how evil mojo can just disregard the players that have stuck with their champion for years and then say, 'nah you don't get to be a flank player anymore. Play support.' Who knows though maybe they have a great reason for doing this.
All in all I don't feel this was a thing that had to be done or should have been done. Moji was fine being a niche pick, I think that the paladins devs wanted a 'new champion' for the hype or the reveal but don't have the resources to do so, so someone's pet project of turning Moji into a support got rolled on, with no oversight or anyone saying 'maybe the players who currently play Moji might not like it'. Either that or the paladins team has decided it is fine with sacrificing a group of very dedicated players if they can drag in more people to play/ buy skins.
This isn't even an attack, the game has to make money somehow, we just need to KNOW why this change is being made, and evil mojo need show the players who have dedicated hundreds and thousands of hours to one champion the respect they deserve by telling them WHY their main is being class shifted and fully reworked. Who knows it could be your favorite champion they decide to rework on a whim next...
If you're going to rework a champion ask the people who play them what they want to see. This feels so out of pocket and random even if you insist that you are going to maintain their identity, but who knows what they will cook up, I think as long as the devs can keep bunny hopping then the Moji players will be fine.
Thank you for watching and let me know what you think of the idea to make Moji a support, how do you think they should implement it?
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Moji history
4:19 - The discussion
7:15 - Who asked?
11:20 - Hopeful?
15:35 - Moji main interview - Ігри
I am not a Moji main, but she is very fun to me as she is right now. I can't imagine how they can change her to support while maintaining the current "feel" of Moji because they will inevitably have to swap out at least 1 ability, probably more.
I won't say I will automatically hate whatever Moji ends up as before seeing it, but this is a really big change to pull off without communication.
They need to just entirely rework her kit on Snack Attack. It'll be unprecented but I think they should absolutely use the talent to change her attacks and everything. I hope they don't completely rework her, she's not great in all scenarios but she's fun when she is played in situations in which she works.
It'd be nice to see something like this be implemented - using the talents to ACTUALLY permit different playstyles. If they actually make a Paladins 2, this could be the biggest case for it. I like the idea of transforming playstyles on champs with different talents, but it usually doesn't feel that different, just slightly different ability flows.
I completely get this! But by this same logic...why not keep her as a flank, with more potent supportive capabilities if you want... Idk if pip can be a supp that plays as flank why can't moji just be a flank that can be an effective support? Why the need for a class shift
@@thesatietycascade9568 after reading what they said on Twitter, they might give her a talent that lets her play as a flank still. It'd be perfect if one of her talents just gave her current base kit, maybe with one of the talents built in.
It won't be ideal for Moji mains but it will definitely be playable / fine.
@@sak-atWork then it just results in them creating a sub par experience ;-; if the rework is going to be so massive just make it a new champion. It would be cringe and unpopular but moji players would be able to play their champion still instead of this watered down version :( it's a giant middle finger to the players that have taken their time to master an unpopular and situational champion, players we should be encouraging!
Idk this would've been so much better if the devs had stated this was coming, and stated WHY this change is happening! that's all most players would ask I feel
i fear for my niche pick VII now
Gonna rework him to a tank
- moji ranked pick/ban rate: 3,034 pick rate 52% WR
- VII ranked pick/ban rate: 2,211 pick rate 48.8% WR
just so u can get a feeling for that ;-;
@@thesatietycascade9568 god lord help me, I play VII for the mobility not to absorb bullets
good video. evil mojo needs to understand that a rework doesn't mean a role change.
THIS! the bias towards support is also getting tedious for me ;-;
good video cascade, as a moji main i agree
I dunno I like flank Moji...
I feel like she's maybe a bit too niche, but I feel like it'd be better to maybe give a slight buff to her movement speed and range, or even give her a high jump like Rei, or double jump like Maeve '^'
Or maybe change some of her talents, but I think making her a support Might really take away the fun of grabbing kills and snow balling and stuff D:
High jump sounds amazing!
Thank you for this great video !
As main moji i agree with all VersusBlue Answers :)
LIKE THIS VIDEO SO MORE CAN SEE IT THIS MAN IS INSANELY SMART
You flatter me Wes! I do hope this reaches people though!
@@thesatietycascade9568 me too ;-;
Coming back after the PTS and... this aged poorly ;-;
I main Moji, and I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I know they said that they wanna do away with echo champions, but I think that support Moji would work as one.
Nontheless, great work!
I think the only way to make Moji a support without destroying her identity would be to make Snack Attack base kit and make it trigger on assists too 🤔
I agree, all the moji mains I've talked to say that you really can't change her kit much, as it's the way the abilities flow into one another that make her work
It has been 1 month since her official release. I'm a lvl 96 Moji with a 63.27% win rate, I even used to play her in ranked 4 years ago during her bad state. I gave my honest attempt to enjoy and understand Support Moji during the whole month, but:
- All of her techs are gone. This current B-hop is an insult to the previous one.
- Her best playstyle is being a healbot.
- She still has that self slow in base :)
- Her Magic Shield is stronger and maybe even better than Magic Barrier.
- Best personal shield application in the game. even better than Torvald and Sight Begets Strength Yagorath (A TALENT)
- Magic Barrier was a fun ability to outplay your opponent, it even had a tech. Magic Shield is press to live (did you know she can't die because the shield instantly grants her 600 shield when its below that number and it increases because of guardian?), doesn't have counterplay other than to shoot the shield, fun.
- Spit Shine unfairly outclasses Jubilation and Toot (I refuse to call it Realm Runner)
- Snack Attack doesn't seem to return anytime soon. It would have been a very unique support talent...
- They heavily reduced her skill ceilling. No more "easy to play, hard to master". she at least isn't Seris.
- Her ultimate is terrible when we compare it to other supports' ultimates.
She has some good things that I do like and appreciate, but cons are higher than pros.
Conclusion,
Support Moji was a failed rework. The idea was interesting, but the execution was terrible. Its extremely clear they didn't ask the Moji players and leaned more on the "what we want" instead of "what the players want". She can be saved to become a support if they do listen to feedback, but currently Flank Moji is gone and it won't return unless she gets another rework to her kit.
I'm not gonna come in here and pretend I'm experienced enough to talk with massive authority -
Moji may be my main, but I play more Overwatch than Paladins, so even my Moji's only lvl 31.
That being said, I don't know, I kinda like the idea of Support Moji - and I don't think I'd get behind decrying the rework before we know what it is.
Now there's a chance I'm maybe not the best guy to ask, I am a Tank/Support player, despite maining Moji, and almost all my DPS/Flank playtime goes to Moji - so I'd already be inclined to enjoy the support playstyle.
I think my main disagreement is the idea that Moji being feast or famine is just that they're really difficult, so it's just good and bad Mojis.
My experience with maining Moji is ABSOLUTELY feast or famine - I mean, I get I'm not playing at top levels, but it's ludicrously feast or famine.
I will quite literally queue one game where I roll the lobby going on a 20+ elim killstreak, and the very next game I'll get stomped into the dirt going 2-7.
I'm not gonna pretend to be a master of Moji, so I can accept that skill requirement is maybe a factor - but if the issue is I'm just bad, and not the fundamental design of Moji, then you'd expect I'd do consistently bad rather than stomping or getting stomped every game.
To me, it very much seems like the 2 factors that decide whether I do terribly on Moji are:
1. Do they have Hitscans with long sightlines I can't avoid without simply hiding in a corner and not being able to play the game?
2. Do I have a team that will help contribute once I or a Tank initiates a push, instead of trickling in solo and picking fights alone?
Usually one of these things being true makes my game rough, but potentially doable.
Both of them being true is a death sentence, which maybe it's just a skill issue, but man it just feels like there is actually nothing you can do when both happen.
At least if I'm staring down a buncha hitscans on a tough map for me, I can usually still get value by just charging at whichever target is the most viable and valueable to take out - hitting all my buttons to get them, and forcing out as many cooldowns as possible from the enemies to catch me. It can be almost impossible to not get caught sometimes in situations like that, but the very least, I can make catching me cost them a teammate and half of their cooldowns, so if the team follows-up and pushes in while all their buttons are down we should win...
But when they don't even do that it's like... Well shit, what am I supposed to do now? My options are hide in a corner all game, or go all-in and guaranteed die for it every time.
That I'd say is the main issue with Moji right now, though I will admit, I do think often people overstate how dysfunctional they are and you can overcome a lot with experience on the character - I just think you can only overcome so much before some of it is just the character fundamentally not being built to be able to handle certain scenarios.
I don't know if Support Moji necessarily will fix that, but perhaps being able to heal will make you feel less useless when you're forced to hide behind a corner and wait.
All that being said, credit where it's due, I do think Moji as a Tank makes even more sense.
Honestly, I feel the main thing that makes Tank so miserable in Paladins is that there aren't any real dive tanks like in Overwatch.
There's no Tanks with the high mobility, high survivability, low damage output playstyles of Winston, Doomfist, or Ball.
Every Tank for the most part is either designed to park their ass on a point and set up a fortress to brace for impact - or they just sorta... walk on you... like a Terminus or a Nando.
There's plenty of frustrations with playing Tank in Overwatch too, but at the very least in Overwatch it feels like you ARE the team leader as the Tank effectively. YOU'RE the one who starts fights, YOU initiate, and therefore dictate the pace of the game.
In Paladins, it feels like the Flanks get to have all the fun in that regard, actually picking the fights and getting the ball rolling. It feels like most Tanks are more suited to standing and waiting to spot a mistake to punish, rather than initiating themselves.
I think I've taken such a shining to Moji because in a weird way, they're the closest thing the game has to a dive tank with the pace of their gameplay and the focus on defense (with magic barrier) and mobility.
Also, more movement speed and shorter cooldowns would go a long way to help too - the cooldowns of Scamper and Magic Barrier are weirdly long.
I don't feel it super often, since I usually plan ahead assuming I'm only gonna get 1 barrier per enegage, and ofc I run cooldown reduction cards - but every now and then I die on Moji because I go on a long killchain with no break inbetween and get lost in the cooldown cycle. I go to use an ability I haven't used in a while, expecting it MUST be off cooldown by now - and then just... oh. Oh I just ran at this Viktor with no Scamper and no Barrier... Oh, and there goes my Lethality speed boost and... yea im ded.
Ultimately, I do think changes to Moji are in order, though I think it's fair to question whether Support is the role for them.
I really like your points here and agree that yes as blue said maybe some cooldown changes and number tweaks, but I also feel that most flanks are often feast of famine being the nature of the role. If I pick buck into counters - reminiscent of playing moji as you said on a bad map or against long range champions, I'm going to die all game and have zero impact, that's just the issue with how the game is balanced I feel. I'm just concerned that moji is going to go from a niche pick to some average support you can throw in at any point that doesn't have a niche to fill, or identity in the same way.
I super appreciate your thoughts on this, I'm not dismissing it before the rework is made, I am just super anxious as I really don't like how EM handles supports at all either.
I'd also like to re-iterate that I'm really disappointed that as far as I know they haven't talked to any of the crazy moji players about what they would like to see in a rework, just feels like something you should do with a change this big
@@thesatietycascade9568 I get what you're saying with the idea of all flanks being feast or famine, but I think it's pretty different Moji compared to others still.
I haven't had Vatu unlocked for anywhere near as long, but he's the only other Flank I play a decent amount of - and in some ways someone like him is also very feast or famine because of how much of an inherently risky character he is to play - but I feel it's in a very different way.
It's more just high pressure to perform I feel with most flanks, where aside from maybe a Torvald hunting you with Nullify all game - you don't really have situations where you can't play the game like Moji sometimes has. When forced to play into a rough team, you can be forced to have lower impact and play safer, but I don't feel you get forced into the "literally the best thing I can do right now is hide in a corner and wait for someone to do something" position.
That being said, perhaps the disconnect is on the whole support thing - I'm not super informed on the discourse around that, I just know there's a vague sentiment of people not liking how "heal-bot-y" a lot of supports have become over time.
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Oh, and I'm realising now I didn't say in the original comment - I guess I feel inclined to stick up for reworks until the details are revealed, because just generally when it comes to the team-based hero-shooter genre - I feel there's plenty of examples of community outrage over a proposed rework, but very few examples of reworks that weren't good for the health of the game.
I mean, sorry to go to Overwatch again, but it's just the only game you can really compare Paladins to - so far its history of reworks has been pretty good.
The Sombra Rework was super well-received.
The Doomfist Tank Rework was a huge success.
And the Pharah Rework was also extremely well-received.
Even if we take a look at the reworks that didn't land so well, for the most part most of them didn't cause any harm at the very least.
The most recent soft rework to Ball did make them more fun, but hasn't landed as well because it did nothing to fix the glaring issues with the character - with them being insanely busted against a team with no CC, but instantly demoted to being less than useless against a team with CC. Even still, it didn't make anything worse, and made the character more fun to play - it just didn't land 'cause it didn't fix the real issues.
The Hog Rework was poorly received, but not because it ruined Hog for everyone - no, people's main complaint was that it barely changed the way he played, and the problems he causes for the game at all. While that isn't good, at the end of the day, Hog players didn't lose anything from it.
Probably the only rework you could argue potentially made the game worse in the past couple years would be Orisa's - as it did essentially make her a brand new character, and one that people hate... problem being that people ALSO really hated the old version of Orisa too, so we kinda just traded one frustrating piece of garbage for another flavour of garbage.
Basically my point being, having experienced so many cycles of "They're reworking THIS character!? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING!?" - and then the rework comes out and it's good for the game actually, at this point I guess my gut just always tells me to be skeptical when people take issue with a rework before they know any of the details about it.
That being said, I've been so in and out with Paladins that I'm not versed in its own history of reworks. I gather Evil Mojo has a bad reputation with reworks?
@@doublechindoge7 in my opinion evil mojo has a bad reputation for balance and supports especially, I think a crucial thing here is - like blue was saying - changing from a flank to supp is very tricky to maintain that identity of the champion. Evil mojo as far as I'm aware have done two major reworks in their lifetime of torvald and kasumi. Torvald was a rework as he was so opressive and needed a kit change, and kasumi was almost unplayable with most of the community hating the charecter. Evil mojo in my opinion has a real issue with supports, they can't seem to get them right and keep overtuning them forcing a really annoying double support meta all the time in their efforts to counter the exact thing.
I'm not dissing the rework and saying it really shouldn't happen. But as far as I'm aware the issues you have pointed out with moji and other players have, don't seem to warrant this drastic of a change. She has a higher win rate and pick rate than Caspian as an example, yet he isn't being changed to DPS? Because not all champions need to be meta.
I also get what u say about sometimes moji can't do anything but with some really annoying supports in the game a lot of champions are like this, if the enemy has a Rei any champion without small rapid fire damage becomes obsolete, or jenos completely shutting champions that rely on mobility down. I think what makes moji unique as blue said is her ability to outplay counters. Something we should encourage! In this game instead of reworking it.
So yeah while I'm not ragging on it and am trying to maintain an open mind, I am very anxious as I feel just from how EM have handled this already, that it's not going to go well...
(Also do search up the aurelion sol rework, I think this one will be nearly as drastic as the orisa changes low-key)
Super love hearing your thoughts and your perspective as an OW player
support moji- my mind is blown
It's a change for sure....
trying to work blue into a scrim draft finding places to force a moji pick that would get value and trying to understand that niche. This destroys all the time not only Blue and DeadlyPines put into the champ but all the other moji mains. Now that little niche they spent developing and working out their niche is thrown back into their faces and THAT'S what really pisses me off. Changing the core Identity of moji is disheartening and I'm not very hopefull for this but that said.
guess you're going to be playing support in scrims from now on.
I feel like if they had suggested the idea, asked for moji players input and said 'look this is happening, what do you guys want to see' then we'd be onto something, but it seems like they are too interested in building up hype factor that they have decided to just scamper off by themselves (pun intended)
Good luck changing Azaans class. He's like 8 feet tall, he's a tank by model design.
Nah nah, make azaan a support easy. Let's also make barik a flank! And Caspian a damage, there's only like 10 Caspian players in the world and he has the lowest pick rate in ranked :)
Well, Buck used to be a tank and got changed, hence why his huge body. Anything is possible!
@@ROFLPirate_x that was also in beta, before he had a load of one tricks and also a tank to flank is much different than flank -> support. Back when em was figuring out how the game should be. Moji has been a fine niche pick for years I just want to know their reasoning behind it
@@thesatietycascade9568 honestly if I made azaan a flank and changed literally nothing, I’m not sure a lot would change. Azaan is basically a flank anyways.
@@thesatietycascade9568 I totally understand the stance, but to be honest I see so few good Moji players that a rework need to happen. Her place in the meta is just hard to find. So much had changed in Paladins and truly I don't think she is very viable as she is just now. There would be have to be a full rework to get her into the meta as a flank, so why not change her class and just start from fresh and do something interesting?