Whenever I watch one of these with roy in it I always end up agreeing with him. My and my wife have been really enjoying this at 2 player, not more than ares expedition but its still fun. This has exactly the same sort of game curve as the others, build a tablou and then focus on the basic actions to score points. I have pretty much consistantly in every game managed to get enough dice production to basically end up producing a forest or a city every other turn. There are many cards that offer as a free action to turn a die to your chosen side. Those really help going for that 1 in 6 for the city icon.
A lot of the reviews I am seeing complain about luck and the dice manipulation element. Having played this game several times I am beginning to think that it takes a more adaptable mindset in order to be successful. My wife seems to struggle because she settles on an exact plan of what she needs to happen, and then ends up using two support actions. I almost never feel like I am in that situation because 1. I take production turns more frequently, and 2. I discard like crazy. If you don't have the dice you need, why bother using action turn after action turn in order to flip dice? Get used to taking production a little early and discarding dice that aren't doing anything for you. And, again, discard the cards like crazy. As a general rule: don't get too attached to any card you think would be cool but that you won't be able to play in the next turn. You get to draw up to 5 cards every production turn, and getting to the cards that you can use isn't that hard if you are aggressively cycling through the deck. You should regularly chuck 3 or 4 cards.
It seems like an odd call to force you down to 3 dice when you discard though. Wouldn't you want to draw into good plays? Or would that make for too much top-decking?
A little of column a little of column B for me, at least in 2 player and solo. Depending on the luck of the draw at the beginning, with the right starting company for those cards (resources wise) and zipping ahead to grab the 5VP bonus card, I've found it possible to avoid production turns altogether for awhile. But without those absurdly precise conditions, it's all about production, production, production, to burn through cards and burning through mismatched dice until I either find something super useful or I happen to have the right cards and dice to drop something decent the next few action turns. What really helps are those extra storage slots, so I don't have to keep randomly provisioning for any dice colors I might not have production facilities for.
I’ve only played twice and Roy’s thoughts mirror mine the most. Although I don’t agree that original TM is too long I think is great to have a game with a similar feel in 1/3rd of the time.
I think my wife and I would really like this game. We have the Original Terraforming Mars that we play all the time, there is so much to do and think about that it never gets old. Our games run about 6-8 hours beginning to end. We'll start at 7 or 8 pm and end at 2 or 3 am. But we both just love it. Its one of the few games you can immerse yourself in for hours and you have to really think about what you want to do to move the global parameters. To us , time is not an issue as long as the game has meaning and a sense of accomplishment or a goal you are working towards. Also, TM is one of the few games that you are sort of working as a CO-OP to terraform the planet but at the same time you couldn't be more on opposite side as everything you do is to try and advance yourself past your competition while still advancing the planet to livable conditions. I think we will get a copy of this new dice game, I believe we'd enjoy it.
So I love Terraforming Mars, and it is my favorite game of all time. But I dont own a copy because everyone has it. I got Ares, and while it's fine, it feels too similar to Terraforming Mars that I dont like Ares, but this feels different enough that I do enjoy it. I get what people say about the turns can feel underwhelming, but my thought processes are all about how can i maximize what I got. I will try and take as few production turns as possible because I feel that is not progressing the game. I try and build more cards that are going to either match the 3 symbols that are rolled or allow me to chain cards together. I think the game is less about building your engine and more about maximizing what you have. So it hits that Terraforming Mars itch while being easier to play.
I enjoyed the game have only played twice but enjoyed it. I like Roys point about not being bothered about the other tm games as this is backed up by his review of twilight inscription
I agree with some of the things you say, but this is a very good game for me. And I'm a huge fan of the original Terraforming Mars (it's my #1 of all time). I think it is what it's supposed to be, a quick game that gives you the TM feeling, which Ares Expedition did not. Also, this is a 40 min game, which is a third of the time it takes to play AE. The original game is still a lot better, but I would choose this before Ares Expedition any day of the week.
I didn't think it was possible for a game to be uglier than Terraforming Mars. You'd think that with all of the very public negativity towards the look of that game, that they would've made having better art and graphic design a bigger priority with this one.
All these mini TM games will all suffer because the original has touched a lot of people’s hearts a little too much lol! That’s fine, but I think when you’re reviewing a new game you really need to separate yourself from that sentiment more if it’s in another games shadow. Now that may not be completely possible, but giving this game a 5? That’s a bit much I think, and it’s pretty clear you’re just making too many comparisons to the original which in my opinion isn’t fair. Regardless, it’s interesting to see just how big of an impact the OG TM has made. So much so these iterations of TM just make people want to whip or the big daddy and get to work lol! Great review as always guys 👍🏻
And they KNOW people will want more player aids because they specifically say to place them in the middle of the table where everyone can see them. I thought the game was OK. I get the criticisms. It's maybe a 6.5 for me. But the player aid thing is just ridiculous. They also made the cards a slightly different size than any existing sleeves, which is flabbergasting. Of course they sell you the sleeves themselves 🙄.
I don't find the # of player aid cards to be egregious enough to warrant a point deduction. You really only need 2: 1 for the person whose turn it is and 1 for the next player. The card size: I don't mind it and I get their argument for the size. I also like to sleeve my cards but I'm ok having not to. With any dice game, you have to deal with the level of randomness that comes with it. This game is all about efficiency, card, and dice management.
The theory about liking it more if you’ve not played a lot of the other 2 games may be accurate. I think if the other games didn’t exist, ratings for this one would be higher. I’m in that camp and would rate it a 7 or 7.5.
Totally. I've never played TM, and I'm really interested in this one, as my wife and I enjoy more relaxed and casual games. It seems this one was reviewed as a direct comparacion to TM.
Yikes. Pretty harsh review. Fair criticism, but I really like it. I play a lot solo so I actually have one EXTRA player aid (yes, i too think it’s absurd to not have one for each player)! The game is so straight forward I find I didn’t really need it after my first play through. So far it’s the only TM game I e been able to win solo. I think the dice manipulation and ability to flush cards (either in production or by drawing two as a special action) helps give the player more control. I appreciate that it’s quick to set up and tear down too. I find it very comparable to ares expedition, but sometimes I just feel like chucking a handful of dice.
I don't see the big deal with the player aids, just share them. Unless you always have to reference them no matter how well you know the game, sure, but usually once you are very familiar with the game, player aids just sit in the box.
What's the point of a player aid anyway? If you enjoy the game and play it three times, you won't even need to take the aid out of the box anymore.... :)
@@attilapetroman9296 Not everyone can remember these things. I play with my dad who is 82 who loves playing games, but can't remember everything about every game and probably won't remember what everything means the next time it is played.
I played it solo and really liked the puzzle after I got used to the fact that you some times have to take two supply actions to prepare your next turn. I will house rule that you can discard as many cards as you like as a supply Action and can reroll that many dice. And before the Production Phase you can put a die into the Majority area for the final scoring. At the Moment it's a 7 for me and I'm looking for ward to play with more players.
YES! Thank you Chris. I knew it wasn't just me who noticed the art in this is a step down from previous games; nobody would listen during the kickstarter.
Old Tom would have said, “This game streamlines one of my favorite games. It’s quicker and more accessible than TM while still giving me a similar feel. Plus, you get to chuck big handfuls of dice!” Old Man Tom now says, “Too luck dependent. Not complex enough.” Dice Tower dudes are turning into sour curmudgeons. Except Roy. Roy, thank you. Honestly, a lot of what I’ve learned about what makes games good or bad, how games achieve their goals, and all that I learned from TDT, especially the podcast. But it seems like Tom has gotten gotten grumpier over the years and is more prone to making snap judgements instead of lifting up some of the particular parts of the game. For example, this is a dice version of a huge game. Of course it’s going to be 1) lighter, 2) more luck dependent, 3) and condensed. In the past he might have described it as 1) accessible, 2) fun (chucking dice), and 3) streamlined. The reasons I’m excited about this game have to do with what the Dice Tower has taught me to appreciate about games like this.
I appreciate being a grumpy old man, I guess. But if you look at my ratings on BGG, I still rate most games positively. I had three lists (my top ten, ten more great games, 10 surprises) for thirty games total that I raved about, along with games I enjoyed that go well over 150. Me not liking a specific game doesn't mean I'm a grumpy curmudgeon, look at my review of Romi Rami for comparison.
Interesting. I didn't like the first two games much but I did like Ares Expedition slightly more. Still, despite feeling a bit meh about Roll for the Galaxy (I liked Race a lot more) I guess I will stick with that.
Maybe if you have tons of free time and likeminded people to play the original you can afford to be this harsh on the game. But I typically have three hours on game day and I’m almost always teaching the game to at least one person which makes things run very slow. To make things worse, many in the group absolutely loathe Terraforming Mars. But every time I’ve brought out the dice game it’s been a painless teach and everyone ended up having a great time. There are so many ways to mitigate the luck of the dice here. If you know what you’re doing you shouldn’t have to do two production turns in a row.
I appreciate that a variety of views are encouraged at the Dice Tower. This allows us to make informed decisions based on our own diverse preferences. Well done for supporting a safe space to just enjoy games!!!
Thank you Roy for being the voice of reason. I really felt that this group was unusually harsh on this game. Enjoy it for what it is: a faster, quicker version of TM that's easy to introduce to non hard-core gamers.
Anyone I’ve played this game with who had an ounce of sense had no major issues with bad luck on dice. Only the most inexperienced gamers were ever doing two productions in a row consistently.
The niche for this game is a next step after a gateway game for people new to modern board games. Once they have tried a gateway game or two, this game can be used as the next thing they try. It's light, but it's more substantial than a gateway game. My other half won't play TM because it is too involved for her but she WILL play this version. The turns are quick and you don't have any pre-reqs to worry about making your cards worthless (i.e. O2 must be at least 4%, etc) so it is easier for people to use the cards they have. Yeah luck will swing this game some ... but its dice based, you have to expect that. If I were to change one thing about it I would make players draft their cards at the beginning of the game (get your opening hand, keep one card and pass the rest to the player to your left and pick one out of the ones you get, pass the rest, etc) that way there is less chance of someone getting a whole hand that synergizes well and runs away at the start. Is this as good as the normal TM? Of course not ... but it is good for its niche.
After owning and enjoying many of Stronghold’s games, I feel like their internal development discussions seem to be: “Could production be better? Yes. Will it? No. Let’s just deliver the prototypes to buyers.” But it’s a business and as long as all of us keep buying it despite the obvious and consistent production shortcuts, they’ll never change.
I played this a few weeks ago and found the cards very cheap feeling, especially compared to the other games. also I had so many turns where I was nerfed simply by rolling bad and wasting 1 or 2 turns getting the die faces I needed to get. I would play it again, but I will not be running out to buy this one.
I agree with all the comments made, but weight the different aspects differently. I really liked this game over 2-3 plays. Like any game involving dice, you have to be ready for the random element, and know that going in. I did enjoy the faster turns in Dice Game and smaller decision space that didn’t intimidate the kids. Comparing it to TM, it’s not nearly as complete.
Tom says that it annoys him that dice production cards became near-useless towards the end of the game. That is very amusing to me because regular Terraforming Mars is chock-full of cards that are actually straight up unplayable during certain portions of the game and it is one reason I dislike it. I think that issue is nowhere near as prevalent here.
I actually prefer this version to Ares Expedition because I was looking for a game that gave me the TFM experience in a shorter time frame and that plays well at 2. This does that for me. AE isn't much shorter than real TFM and I think it sucks at 2 players, IMO. If I didn't care about a shorter version I would probably feel the same way you guys do in regards to the game play. And yes, as a kickstarter backer I am pretty disappointed with the production and artwork. They made a ton of profit on this one, they could have sprung for a couple more player aids.
I love AE at two. You need to use the dummy player variant (take a third set of phase cards, shuffle them and add one to the middle whenever you reveal your phase card selection. Once the dummy player has used three of the five cards, shuffle them all and continue playing).
Have this game and the lack of player aids to me and my group is not an issue at all, have played this 7 times and it's a good game for short time plays, tbh the iconography is of no issue after you've played it at least 2 or 3 times, good light game and easier game to introduce people to the TM universe
The designers clearly are wanting to get some audience that wasn’t captured by the original but for me I love the original and all its length and complexity and so Ares Project felt weaker and this looks weaker than that. I’d really like them to go the other way and give us a nice legacy game terraforming the Sol system. Something bigger and grander. If they want to do a smaller game then pick some aspect of Terraforming Mars that fits within the limited mechanics, potato ranching or comet capture or something new that doesn’t fee like a new mechanic slapped on the old theme that’s less fun than the original..
I almost never agree with Chris Yi, but this time I think he was spot on. The actual terraforming part is almost like an afterthought and kind of unbalanced. You spend so much of your time trying to get the dice to work with your cards. Performing a production action seems like such a waste when you have a big pile of dice. You end up either slowly manipulating a dice or slowly getting one card at a time hoping that it matches what you can afford . Also, Building a tree costs four common symbols, But building a city costs three rare symbols? Who would ever build cities?
Roy has a good point. Here in France we tend to here the same thing. Big fans of the original game ou Ares have a hard time appreciate this one and put in on the same level as 7 wonders architect to OG 7 wonders. Me, I never played OG TfM but I love Ares expedition and I can't wait to try the dice version
Say it louder for the people in the back! Who cares to hear from all these UA-camrs who praise every single big game all the time?!? Have some guts. That's why the DT is always my main source for reviews/content.
I can imagine some people enjoying Ares Expedition more than Terraforming Mars, because of its simple and quicker gameplay, but was anyone asking for an even simpler game?
I actually like it quite a bit. I have never played the og or AE tho. I'd give it like an 7- 7,5. It's not that complicated so even newer or non-gamers can get into this quite easily.
I like it but id still only give it a 7.5 same as Ares. I really wish i hadnt given my copy of the original away to a friend because both spin offs are just far worse games than TM
Hearing the guys complain about player aids is like the "Old man yells at cloud" Simpsons bit. If you play this game more than once, which most people will if they spend hard earned money on it, they will know the difference between 3 dice.
I feel like I must have the exact opposite tastes from Roy. If he likes something, I probably dislike it and if he dislikes something, I probably will like it lol.
I’m pretty surprised by the ratings, especially with how many 6s and 7s Ton gives out. Most significantly - I think the “award” system of competing for who uses three dice faces is excellent. Is so simple, but in my experience is very possible to fight over intentionally. I think missing this probably made the game seem far more random to them… I also feel like I played this so differently than the DT folks. I thought the map bonuses were actually a bigger boon in this game than in TM, compared with the price of cards. In all three games, straight production cards are nearly unplayable by the end of game, so this knock against it seemed wholly non-unique to me. Strange review, but I can see how their experience led to these conclusions too.
I appreciate the overall review, but the fixation on the player aids was downright petty. I have watched other reviews with the same reviewers *on this channel* who hand wave desiring more player aids in games...with iconography. For this game? An entire point lower? The cards dividers have a distinctive tab, they are not "the same size of the cards". The tabs are printed on both sides so are reversible. I think I would rate the pettiness here nine out of 10.
Probably a good chunk of Terraforming Mars fatigue can be seen here. The beauty of the original TM is that while you have a vague direction given to you at the start of the game you never know where you will end up and how you got there. And building that engine is the game and it is still very good even after dozens of games of the original. It is not hitting the table as much as it did, but we occasionally indulge into some Terraforming... And the Mars killers haven't really felt that compelling... Similar games with more railroading almost. It is very nice you can find your way within the confines of the game and there is no one way to an easy win.
I mostly agree, but I think ark nova has even less railroading, requires more pivoting, and is more challenging to play well. Still, original TM is the most fun to me :)
@@dylankistler731 I've played so much Mars that Ark Nova didn't really do it for me and it is quite hardly more rail roaded than Mars. There is a limit to your hand size and you don't see anywhere near as many cards as you see in Mars. There were some nice things there, like the upgradable actions and the action queue thing in entirety... It didn't feel as good. Same with Ares Expedition, I can see where it is trying to go, but it is sort of moving away from the core of Mars that makes it so good. There is some AP in Mars and you have to have a decent group for it, but once you have that, it just works. There is a small chance in Mars that you can have a game that just doesn't go anywhere, but you see so many cards in the game that it is very unlikely... At the start you have couple of Corporation options, 4 prelude cards and 10 project cards to get yourself going. There is usually something that works there and if you only have a couple of cards that fit in there you will see plenty of more cards when the game gets under way... It just works.
There are so many great companies. So many great board games. Stronghold continues to be utterly disappointing with the quality of their components. At this point, I'm done with them. There are other better options.
I was never tempted by this game (TM is a 10 for me, Ares is an 8 because it lacks the map and milestones). I just never saw the POSITIVE of this scale of a terraforming mars game.
@@steverigatones7264 I didn't back prelude 2, because my wife and I almost strictly play it digitally now. I think the combo nature of a prelude 2 expansions with all the variable milestones and awards is a really cool idea. In the end though I am with you, it's time to shift away from trying to emulate the originals success.
I agree. The TM line is great and it’s always there for us to enjoy. Stronghold needs to move on to other things though… but they won’t because the newest Kickstarter is making millions so…
I think one house rule that could improve the enjoyment of the game is when you reach a certain threshold of production (producing like 8 total dice maybe), then you're permitted to discard and replace any green card you draw.
Sounds like I'll stick with Ares Expedition. I like that version better than the original since it's quicker paced and doesn't play for a long time. Since AE does what I want well and this sounds like it doesn't... gonna pass.
Maybe the reason they put two player aids for a four player game is because, quite simply you only need two, one between two people and one between the other two people, unless you take turns simultaneously with each other, which i did not see mentioned in the rules overview (if you do take them simultaneously then i would be wrong). I fail to see how that is "not enough player aids." Btw there is not any table that i know of where this could possibly be an issue, other than a Really long straigh table where you have to sit side by side, but have to sit really far apart from each other, or maybe a Circle table with a hole in the center of it? in which case you would have bigger problems than the player aids, because everyone wouldnt be able to reach the dice. Also, Multiple negative comments reference that this game is luck based, ITs literally the Dice version, Get the original version. There is so much wrong with the final thoughts section of this, the one guy literally said when you do production you go down to 3 dice and get rid of cards for new cards, and he said you have to match the new cards you get to the 3 dice, You get More Dice based off of your production buildings, you dont just go down to 3 and thats it.
Ares Expedition was butt-ugly! It even had flawed graphic design with useless stuff covering the artwork and hard to read text. And the art style wasn't good!
I don't understand how you can rate a game a 5 after saying nothing good about it,a 5 means its barely average You guys should have rated it like a 2 or so if you didn't like it all
So much whining, wow. As a quick-play version, naturally it will be watered down. I do agree with the random points awarded for the three most used resources, that is bad. Overall a solid 7 IMHO.
Honestly I cannot stand Tom. He is the most pompous arrogant entitled gamer with a platform I've ever seen. It is just so unfortunate that he has the following he does bc he has the ability to showcase such a vast amount of content. YOU weren't a fan of the art, fine, YOU didn't like there were 2 player aids, fine, but your opinion is not the end all. Get over yourself and pass the player aid to the next person when you're done with it. Just... Ugh so frustrating that someone like this (who I'm sure has actually worked hard and built up a loyal fan base online based on his opinions) it's just so unfortunate that he's so entitled and enabled by the echo chamber he surrounds himself with.
Feels like a game that was rushed to hit the hype of TFM and dice games... Just has so many holes in style and didn't do anything new/ interesting to make it worth it
Worst board game I've played. The rules are disorganized and the mechanics are "first player to get lucky wins, but you have to wait an hour to get to the inevitable end." If you get unlucky, you'll waste turns turning dice trying to catch up to a player who got lucky. Corporate cards, which determine what you get at first and what you get in production turns, are wildly unbalanced. Some get you two dice and and two bonus tokens, some get you three dice per turn and six bonus tokens. Also, for a game called "Terraforming Mars", games end when Mars is positively not terraformed. A couple of ocean tiles, very cold temperatures and unbreathable air.
Chris, you giving it a 5 after that description sounds waaaaaay to generous. It sounds more like a 3 or 4 for you. I mean, if THIS is a 5, how horrible does something have to be to earn a 3? Using low numbers is not a bad thing if that's what you feel.
What do you think "blindly" means? You mean play videos, pictures of the game, digital copy of the PDF.... You might want to check the definition of "blind".
When Ares is so amazing and improved on the original in every way, I just don’t see a need for this for me You could visibly see Roy not agreeing with the group
Sooo...have you played the game? DT was unusually harsh. The game teaches quickly, plays quickly, has nice art on the cards, fistfuls of dice, and nice thick cardboard pieces. Get over your own negativity bias.
Dice games are not my thing so the best it would have done with a blind score was 6. To get higher it has to be amazing. After seeing this review and what the game was like I feel my total lack of interest was justified...
This game is so ugly looking to me. Part of it is the chonky graphic design with the borders and everything, but also the art itself just feels off. And then the dice themselves, the focus of this version of the game, were so blah looking. The gameplay itself just felt very mechanical and dull, almost forgetting to utilize the dice and just than forcing them into the system. Thank you for raging about the player aides, it's so ridiculous at this point. I've been happy with Ares Expedition, and after the recent well earned controversy, at this point it's the last game I'll have bought from them.
I love TFM, it's my favorite game of all time. And I deeply disdain "Ares Expedition". I almost backed this dice game because it seemed so much better than the abysmal "Ares Expedition" (functional mars surface, milestones&awards, ...) and at first the mechanics seem interesting. Now I'm glad that I ditched my 1€ pledge and decided to not buy it. In some parts this dice game is so bad. It's so much luck-dependent despite all the mitigation. You often just get stuck with cards that you don't have the right symbols for and it's just a pointless exercise. You can even see in the Rahdo playthrough (admittedly with a prototype) that the game doesn't work well. So bad!
Love hearing the "play this instead" commentary. Do that more!
I wonder what the scores would be without TM attached to it.
Whenever I watch one of these with roy in it I always end up agreeing with him. My and my wife have been really enjoying this at 2 player, not more than ares expedition but its still fun. This has exactly the same sort of game curve as the others, build a tablou and then focus on the basic actions to score points. I have pretty much consistantly in every game managed to get enough dice production to basically end up producing a forest or a city every other turn. There are many cards that offer as a free action to turn a die to your chosen side. Those really help going for that 1 in 6 for the city icon.
A lot of the reviews I am seeing complain about luck and the dice manipulation element. Having played this game several times I am beginning to think that it takes a more adaptable mindset in order to be successful. My wife seems to struggle because she settles on an exact plan of what she needs to happen, and then ends up using two support actions. I almost never feel like I am in that situation because 1. I take production turns more frequently, and 2. I discard like crazy. If you don't have the dice you need, why bother using action turn after action turn in order to flip dice? Get used to taking production a little early and discarding dice that aren't doing anything for you. And, again, discard the cards like crazy. As a general rule: don't get too attached to any card you think would be cool but that you won't be able to play in the next turn. You get to draw up to 5 cards every production turn, and getting to the cards that you can use isn't that hard if you are aggressively cycling through the deck. You should regularly chuck 3 or 4 cards.
It seems like an odd call to force you down to 3 dice when you discard though. Wouldn't you want to draw into good plays? Or would that make for too much top-decking?
A little of column a little of column B for me, at least in 2 player and solo.
Depending on the luck of the draw at the beginning, with the right starting company for those cards (resources wise) and zipping ahead to grab the 5VP bonus card, I've found it possible to avoid production turns altogether for awhile.
But without those absurdly precise conditions, it's all about production, production, production, to burn through cards and burning through mismatched dice until I either find something super useful or I happen to have the right cards and dice to drop something decent the next few action turns.
What really helps are those extra storage slots, so I don't have to keep randomly provisioning for any dice colors I might not have production facilities for.
I’ve only played twice and Roy’s thoughts mirror mine the most. Although I don’t agree that original TM is too long I think is great to have a game with a similar feel in 1/3rd of the time.
I think my wife and I would really like this game. We have the Original Terraforming Mars that we play all the time, there is so much to do and think about that it never gets old. Our games run about 6-8 hours beginning to end. We'll start at 7 or 8 pm and end at 2 or 3 am. But we both just love it. Its one of the few games you can immerse yourself in for hours and you have to really think about what you want to do to move the global parameters. To us , time is not an issue as long as the game has meaning and a sense of accomplishment or a goal you are working towards. Also, TM is one of the few games that you are sort of working as a CO-OP to terraform the planet but at the same time you couldn't be more on opposite side as everything you do is to try and advance yourself past your competition while still advancing the planet to livable conditions. I think we will get a copy of this new dice game, I believe we'd enjoy it.
So I love Terraforming Mars, and it is my favorite game of all time. But I dont own a copy because everyone has it. I got Ares, and while it's fine, it feels too similar to Terraforming Mars that I dont like Ares, but this feels different enough that I do enjoy it. I get what people say about the turns can feel underwhelming, but my thought processes are all about how can i maximize what I got. I will try and take as few production turns as possible because I feel that is not progressing the game. I try and build more cards that are going to either match the 3 symbols that are rolled or allow me to chain cards together. I think the game is less about building your engine and more about maximizing what you have. So it hits that Terraforming Mars itch while being easier to play.
I enjoyed the game have only played twice but enjoyed it. I like Roys point about not being bothered about the other tm games as this is backed up by his review of twilight inscription
I'm still only in the explanation, but I get the feeling Tom does not like this game...
I agree with some of the things you say, but this is a very good game for me. And I'm a huge fan of the original Terraforming Mars (it's my #1 of all time).
I think it is what it's supposed to be, a quick game that gives you the TM feeling, which Ares Expedition did not.
Also, this is a 40 min game, which is a third of the time it takes to play AE.
The original game is still a lot better, but I would choose this before Ares Expedition any day of the week.
I didn't think it was possible for a game to be uglier than Terraforming Mars. You'd think that with all of the very public negativity towards the look of that game, that they would've made having better art and graphic design a bigger priority with this one.
*_”We do everything in-house.”_* 🤷♂️
All these mini TM games will all suffer because the original has touched a lot of people’s hearts a little too much lol! That’s fine, but I think when you’re reviewing a new game you really need to separate yourself from that sentiment more if it’s in another games shadow. Now that may not be completely possible, but giving this game a 5? That’s a bit much I think, and it’s pretty clear you’re just making too many comparisons to the original which in my opinion isn’t fair. Regardless, it’s interesting to see just how big of an impact the OG TM has made. So much so these iterations of TM just make people want to whip or the big daddy and get to work lol! Great review as always guys 👍🏻
And they KNOW people will want more player aids because they specifically say to place them in the middle of the table where everyone can see them. I thought the game was OK. I get the criticisms. It's maybe a 6.5 for me. But the player aid thing is just ridiculous. They also made the cards a slightly different size than any existing sleeves, which is flabbergasting. Of course they sell you the sleeves themselves 🙄.
Yeah The sleeve thing is ridiculous especially because the other 2 games both use standard size!
The card size/sleeve issue is inexcusable. Wow.
I don't find the # of player aid cards to be egregious enough to warrant a point deduction. You really only need 2: 1 for the person whose turn it is and 1 for the next player. The card size: I don't mind it and I get their argument for the size. I also like to sleeve my cards but I'm ok having not to.
With any dice game, you have to deal with the level of randomness that comes with it. This game is all about efficiency, card, and dice management.
The theory about liking it more if you’ve not played a lot of the other 2 games may be accurate. I think if the other games didn’t exist, ratings for this one would be higher. I’m in that camp and would rate it a 7 or 7.5.
Totally. I've never played TM, and I'm really interested in this one, as my wife and I enjoy more relaxed and casual games.
It seems this one was reviewed as a direct comparacion to TM.
Good for all of you showing your integrity. Along with offering alternatives and comparative scores.
Yikes. Pretty harsh review. Fair criticism, but I really like it. I play a lot solo so I actually have one EXTRA player aid (yes, i too think it’s absurd to not have one for each player)! The game is so straight forward I find I didn’t really need it after my first play through. So far it’s the only TM game I e been able to win solo. I think the dice manipulation and ability to flush cards (either in production or by drawing two as a special action) helps give the player more control. I appreciate that it’s quick to set up and tear down too. I find it very comparable to ares expedition, but sometimes I just feel like chucking a handful of dice.
I don't see the big deal with the player aids, just share them. Unless you always have to reference them no matter how well you know the game, sure, but usually once you are very familiar with the game, player aids just sit in the box.
It's a gateway to the other two games, however the lack of player aids is absolutely ridiculous.
What's the point of a player aid anyway? If you enjoy the game and play it three times, you won't even need to take the aid out of the box anymore.... :)
@@attilapetroman9296 Not everyone can remember these things. I play with my dad who is 82 who loves playing games, but can't remember everything about every game and probably won't remember what everything means the next time it is played.
Roy said it best. None of the TM games actually feel like Terraforming Mars. The tile placement is secondary in the original as well.
I played it solo and really liked the puzzle after I got used to the fact that you some times have to take two supply actions to prepare your next turn.
I will house rule that you can discard as many cards as you like as a supply Action and can reroll that many dice. And before the Production Phase you can put a die into the Majority area for the final scoring.
At the Moment it's a 7 for me and I'm looking for ward to play with more players.
I LOVE this game. And to whoever said it may be because I “can’t handle Terraforming Mars”? Thats a bit much.
YES! Thank you Chris.
I knew it wasn't just me who noticed the art in this is a step down from previous games; nobody would listen during the kickstarter.
Maybe they used AI art for this too.
Old Tom would have said, “This game streamlines one of my favorite games. It’s quicker and more accessible than TM while still giving me a similar feel. Plus, you get to chuck big handfuls of dice!”
Old Man Tom now says, “Too luck dependent. Not complex enough.”
Dice Tower dudes are turning into sour curmudgeons. Except Roy. Roy, thank you.
Honestly, a lot of what I’ve learned about what makes games good or bad, how games achieve their goals, and all that I learned from TDT, especially the podcast. But it seems like Tom has gotten gotten grumpier over the years and is more prone to making snap judgements instead of lifting up some of the particular parts of the game. For example, this is a dice version of a huge game. Of course it’s going to be 1) lighter, 2) more luck dependent, 3) and condensed. In the past he might have described it as 1) accessible, 2) fun (chucking dice), and 3) streamlined. The reasons I’m excited about this game have to do with what the Dice Tower has taught me to appreciate about games like this.
I appreciate being a grumpy old man, I guess. But if you look at my ratings on BGG, I still rate most games positively. I had three lists (my top ten, ten more great games, 10 surprises) for thirty games total that I raved about, along with games I enjoyed that go well over 150. Me not liking a specific game doesn't mean I'm a grumpy curmudgeon, look at my review of Romi Rami for comparison.
I played this at Gen Con and very much enjoyed it.
Maybe Roy's higher score is because he got one of the player aids? LOL
I played this with Joey and Jason and we got absolutely roasted by Jason.
Component wise: Stronghold being Stronghold. Oh, and price wise too!
100% with Tom #respecttheplayercount
Interesting. I didn't like the first two games much but I did like Ares Expedition slightly more. Still, despite feeling a bit meh about Roll for the Galaxy (I liked Race a lot more) I guess I will stick with that.
roll for the galaxy exists
Maybe if you have tons of free time and likeminded people to play the original you can afford to be this harsh on the game. But I typically have three hours on game day and I’m almost always teaching the game to at least one person which makes things run very slow. To make things worse, many in the group absolutely loathe Terraforming Mars. But every time I’ve brought out the dice game it’s been a painless teach and everyone ended up having a great time. There are so many ways to mitigate the luck of the dice here. If you know what you’re doing you shouldn’t have to do two production turns in a row.
I appreciate that a variety of views are encouraged at the Dice Tower. This allows us to make informed decisions based on our own diverse preferences. Well done for supporting a safe space to just enjoy games!!!
Thank you Roy for being the voice of reason. I really felt that this group was unusually harsh on this game. Enjoy it for what it is: a faster, quicker version of TM that's easy to introduce to non hard-core gamers.
Well he had the player aide.
Anyone I’ve played this game with who had an ounce of sense had no major issues with bad luck on dice. Only the most inexperienced gamers were ever doing two productions in a row consistently.
The niche for this game is a next step after a gateway game for people new to modern board games. Once they have tried a gateway game or two, this game can be used as the next thing they try. It's light, but it's more substantial than a gateway game. My other half won't play TM because it is too involved for her but she WILL play this version. The turns are quick and you don't have any pre-reqs to worry about making your cards worthless (i.e. O2 must be at least 4%, etc) so it is easier for people to use the cards they have. Yeah luck will swing this game some ... but its dice based, you have to expect that. If I were to change one thing about it I would make players draft their cards at the beginning of the game (get your opening hand, keep one card and pass the rest to the player to your left and pick one out of the ones you get, pass the rest, etc) that way there is less chance of someone getting a whole hand that synergizes well and runs away at the start. Is this as good as the normal TM? Of course not ... but it is good for its niche.
Top 10 the dice games would be interesting
Im not even past the "how to play" and can tell Tom does not like this
They should've just called this one "Terraforming Phobos."
Great review guys.
Why not just make the Roll for the Galaxy version instead?... TM:AE worked very well in my opinion, and Roll is a game I really enjoy.
After owning and enjoying many of Stronghold’s games, I feel like their internal development discussions seem to be: “Could production be better? Yes. Will it? No. Let’s just deliver the prototypes to buyers.” But it’s a business and as long as all of us keep buying it despite the obvious and consistent production shortcuts, they’ll never change.
Why the hostile dog pile?
I played this a few weeks ago and found the cards very cheap feeling, especially compared to the other games. also I had so many turns where I was nerfed simply by rolling bad and wasting 1 or 2 turns getting the die faces I needed to get. I would play it again, but I will not be running out to buy this one.
I agree with all the comments made, but weight the different aspects differently. I really liked this game over 2-3 plays. Like any game involving dice, you have to be ready for the random element, and know that going in. I did enjoy the faster turns in Dice Game and smaller decision space that didn’t intimidate the kids. Comparing it to TM, it’s not nearly as complete.
Tom says that it annoys him that dice production cards became near-useless towards the end of the game. That is very amusing to me because regular Terraforming Mars is chock-full of cards that are actually straight up unplayable during certain portions of the game and it is one reason I dislike it. I think that issue is nowhere near as prevalent here.
I actually prefer this version to Ares Expedition because I was looking for a game that gave me the TFM experience in a shorter time frame and that plays well at 2. This does that for me. AE isn't much shorter than real TFM and I think it sucks at 2 players, IMO. If I didn't care about a shorter version I would probably feel the same way you guys do in regards to the game play. And yes, as a kickstarter backer I am pretty disappointed with the production and artwork. They made a ton of profit on this one, they could have sprung for a couple more player aids.
I’ve found AE to be much shorter, but I agree it’s not the best at 2
I love AE at two. You need to use the dummy player variant (take a third set of phase cards, shuffle them and add one to the middle whenever you reveal your phase card selection. Once the dummy player has used three of the five cards, shuffle them all and continue playing).
I like Terraforming Mars the Dice Game the most. Ares Expedition is 2nd. In a very distant 3rd is the original Terraforming Mars.
Have this game and the lack of player aids to me and my group is not an issue at all, have played this 7 times and it's a good game for short time plays, tbh the iconography is of no issue after you've played it at least 2 or 3 times, good light game and easier game to introduce people to the TM universe
The designers clearly are wanting to get some audience that wasn’t captured by the original but for me I love the original and all its length and complexity and so Ares Project felt weaker and this looks weaker than that. I’d really like them to go the other way and give us a nice legacy game terraforming the Sol system. Something bigger and grander. If they want to do a smaller game then pick some aspect of Terraforming Mars that fits within the limited mechanics, potato ranching or comet capture or something new that doesn’t fee like a new mechanic slapped on the old theme that’s less fun than the original..
I almost never agree with Chris Yi, but this time I think he was spot on. The actual terraforming part is almost like an afterthought and kind of unbalanced. You spend so much of your time trying to get the dice to work with your cards. Performing a production action seems like such a waste when you have a big pile of dice. You end up either slowly manipulating a dice or slowly getting one card at a time hoping that it matches what you can afford . Also, Building a tree costs four common symbols, But building a city costs three rare symbols? Who would ever build cities?
I was really expecting someone when Tom said" My universe is not this ugly." to say "have you seen your shirt?"
Thank you.
Roy has a good point. Here in France we tend to here the same thing. Big fans of the original game ou Ares have a hard time appreciate this one and put in on the same level as 7 wonders architect to OG 7 wonders. Me, I never played OG TfM but I love Ares expedition and I can't wait to try the dice version
I will await for the Dice Tower expansion where you build the Dice Tower on Mars in the game, and a little Tom Vasel comes out and tweaks the game.
Also, I love when they rip into a game for its flaws and aren’t always gushing about the next best thing from a known company
Say it louder for the people in the back! Who cares to hear from all these UA-camrs who praise every single big game all the time?!? Have some guts. That's why the DT is always my main source for reviews/content.
I can imagine some people enjoying Ares Expedition more than Terraforming Mars, because of its simple and quicker gameplay, but was anyone asking for an even simpler game?
I actually like it quite a bit. I have never played the og or AE tho. I'd give it like an 7- 7,5. It's not that complicated so even newer or non-gamers can get into this quite easily.
This can be played 5 time in the time of TM, 3 times for AE. We finished our learning game in 60m. .. Defo 45m per game seams legit.
Ares expedition is always around 1 hr for us. I have nearly a 3:1 ration on Ares compared to original.
So it takes you 3hr45m to play TM and 2hr15min to play AE? I'm glad im not part of your game group...
I like it but id still only give it a 7.5 same as Ares. I really wish i hadnt given my copy of the original away to a friend because both spin offs are just far worse games than TM
Hearing the guys complain about player aids is like the "Old man yells at cloud" Simpsons bit. If you play this game more than once, which most people will if they spend hard earned money on it, they will know the difference between 3 dice.
I feel like I must have the exact opposite tastes from Roy. If he likes something, I probably dislike it and if he dislikes something, I probably will like it lol.
Which one is Roy?
Listen at 23:12 to find out who is who. @@dallastexas5653
I’m pretty surprised by the ratings, especially with how many 6s and 7s Ton gives out.
Most significantly - I think the “award” system of competing for who uses three dice faces is excellent. Is so simple, but in my experience is very possible to fight over intentionally. I think missing this probably made the game seem far more random to them…
I also feel like I played this so differently than the DT folks. I thought the map bonuses were actually a bigger boon in this game than in TM, compared with the price of cards. In all three games, straight production cards are nearly unplayable by the end of game, so this knock against it seemed wholly non-unique to me.
Strange review, but I can see how their experience led to these conclusions too.
Shame this didn't end up being a better game.. what other dice manipulation games would you recommend in place of this one?
Tom Vasel must know the Terraforming Mars family will not be winning any board game beauty contests.
The only issue I have with the game is the players aids. I viewed it as it's own game rather than a successor to the original TM, and I did enjoy it.
I appreciate the overall review, but the fixation on the player aids was downright petty.
I have watched other reviews with the same reviewers *on this channel* who hand wave desiring more player aids in games...with iconography.
For this game? An entire point lower?
The cards dividers have a distinctive tab, they are not "the same size of the cards". The tabs are printed on both sides so are reversible.
I think I would rate the pettiness here nine out of 10.
Probably a good chunk of Terraforming Mars fatigue can be seen here. The beauty of the original TM is that while you have a vague direction given to you at the start of the game you never know where you will end up and how you got there. And building that engine is the game and it is still very good even after dozens of games of the original. It is not hitting the table as much as it did, but we occasionally indulge into some Terraforming... And the Mars killers haven't really felt that compelling... Similar games with more railroading almost. It is very nice you can find your way within the confines of the game and there is no one way to an easy win.
I mostly agree, but I think ark nova has even less railroading, requires more pivoting, and is more challenging to play well. Still, original TM is the most fun to me :)
@@dylankistler731 I've played so much Mars that Ark Nova didn't really do it for me and it is quite hardly more rail roaded than Mars. There is a limit to your hand size and you don't see anywhere near as many cards as you see in Mars. There were some nice things there, like the upgradable actions and the action queue thing in entirety... It didn't feel as good. Same with Ares Expedition, I can see where it is trying to go, but it is sort of moving away from the core of Mars that makes it so good. There is some AP in Mars and you have to have a decent group for it, but once you have that, it just works. There is a small chance in Mars that you can have a game that just doesn't go anywhere, but you see so many cards in the game that it is very unlikely... At the start you have couple of Corporation options, 4 prelude cards and 10 project cards to get yourself going. There is usually something that works there and if you only have a couple of cards that fit in there you will see plenty of more cards when the game gets under way... It just works.
Do a top 10 "The dice game" games.
Waaaay too harsh on this game. It’s on par with Ares Expedition: so a 7.5. It just doesn’t reach the heights of Terraforming Mars.
Agreed. These roundtable reviews can be highly susceptible to groupthink.
This is significantly below AE
@@briancline4173 but they had different scores and clearly disagreed over parts of it?
Groupthink isn't really a thing here, as most of us didn't play it with each other!
I'm still buying it, I don't care. LOL ...
Ridiculous! Only two reference aids? What is the cost to add that?
2 cents max in mass production
They're probably saving the extra player aids for the exclusive Dice Game Big Box kickstarter edition promo add on for $14.99.
There are so many great companies.
So many great board games.
Stronghold continues to be utterly disappointing with the quality of their components.
At this point, I'm done with them. There are other better options.
I was never tempted by this game (TM is a 10 for me, Ares is an 8 because it lacks the map and milestones). I just never saw the POSITIVE of this scale of a terraforming mars game.
What about TM the LARP? Or TM the party game? Or TM the video game?
@@steverigatones7264 I didn't back prelude 2, because my wife and I almost strictly play it digitally now. I think the combo nature of a prelude 2 expansions with all the variable milestones and awards is a really cool idea. In the end though I am with you, it's time to shift away from trying to emulate the originals success.
I agree. The TM line is great and it’s always there for us to enjoy. Stronghold needs to move on to other things though… but they won’t because the newest Kickstarter is making millions so…
TM a 10. Ares expedition like a 4 for me. I bought Ares because of how great the art looks but quickly sold it. This is an easy pass.
@@brianstever2146 yeah some people love ares. I really do like the action selection, I just think the rest of experience is really thin compared to Tm
It’s quite asinine to not include enough player aides to pass to each player. Nine headed decision right there.
I feel like 25% of games I play that have them don't have enough. I am not surprised the notoriously underproduced Terraforming Mars does it.
Most people don't use player aids for this light of a game. Maybe use your brain instead
I think one house rule that could improve the enjoyment of the game is when you reach a certain threshold of production (producing like 8 total dice maybe), then you're permitted to discard and replace any green card you draw.
Sounds like I'll stick with Ares Expedition. I like that version better than the original since it's quicker paced and doesn't play for a long time. Since AE does what I want well and this sounds like it doesn't... gonna pass.
Maybe the reason they put two player aids for a four player game is because, quite simply you only need two, one between two people and one between the other two people, unless you take turns simultaneously with each other, which i did not see mentioned in the rules overview (if you do take them simultaneously then i would be wrong). I fail to see how that is "not enough player aids." Btw there is not any table that i know of where this could possibly be an issue, other than a Really long straigh table where you have to sit side by side, but have to sit really far apart from each other, or maybe a Circle table with a hole in the center of it? in which case you would have bigger problems than the player aids, because everyone wouldnt be able to reach the dice. Also, Multiple negative comments reference that this game is luck based, ITs literally the Dice version, Get the original version. There is so much wrong with the final thoughts section of this, the one guy literally said when you do production you go down to 3 dice and get rid of cards for new cards, and he said you have to match the new cards you get to the 3 dice, You get More Dice based off of your production buildings, you dont just go down to 3 and thats it.
When I saw the first pictures of this, my first thought was: "Why did they go back to the ugly art after improving in Ares Expedition??"
Ares Expedition was butt-ugly! It even had flawed graphic design with useless stuff covering the artwork and hard to read text. And the art style wasn't good!
This seems like very strict on the iconography
Joey, be sure to drink directly into the microphone.
Did not expect that!! But this was barely on my Essen maybe list, you just reduced it to ignore. 😄👍 Oh do I hate not enough player aids!
I don't understand how you can rate a game a 5 after saying nothing good about it,a 5 means its barely average
You guys should have rated it like a 2 or so if you didn't like it all
Put it in the context of all games, including mass market.
Do we have a new contender for the "Ugliest Board Game Cover"?
So much whining, wow. As a quick-play version, naturally it will be watered down. I do agree with the random points awarded for the three most used resources, that is bad. Overall a solid 7 IMHO.
Roy is correct: Ares Expedition is better than Terraforming Mars.
I love them both equally
Honestly I cannot stand Tom. He is the most pompous arrogant entitled gamer with a platform I've ever seen. It is just so unfortunate that he has the following he does bc he has the ability to showcase such a vast amount of content. YOU weren't a fan of the art, fine, YOU didn't like there were 2 player aids, fine, but your opinion is not the end all. Get over yourself and pass the player aid to the next person when you're done with it. Just... Ugh so frustrating that someone like this (who I'm sure has actually worked hard and built up a loyal fan base online based on his opinions) it's just so unfortunate that he's so entitled and enabled by the echo chamber he surrounds himself with.
He's literally surrounded by employees who disagree with him constantly, like Roy giving this game a 7 in this very video.
I enjoyed Roy's comments and disregarded most of Tom's XD
Feels like a game that was rushed to hit the hype of TFM and dice games... Just has so many holes in style and didn't do anything new/ interesting to make it worth it
This is a brilliant solo game.
Worst board game I've played. The rules are disorganized and the mechanics are "first player to get lucky wins, but you have to wait an hour to get to the inevitable end." If you get unlucky, you'll waste turns turning dice trying to catch up to a player who got lucky.
Corporate cards, which determine what you get at first and what you get in production turns, are wildly unbalanced. Some get you two dice and and two bonus tokens, some get you three dice per turn and six bonus tokens.
Also, for a game called "Terraforming Mars", games end when Mars is positively not terraformed. A couple of ocean tiles, very cold temperatures and unbreathable air.
That score track. Oof.
Please create a rubric for consistency.
Have you seen a rubric for other subjective criticism? I’ve never seen a food or movie critic rubric. Essays have rubrics.
Chris, you giving it a 5 after that description sounds waaaaaay to generous. It sounds more like a 3 or 4 for you.
I mean, if THIS is a 5, how horrible does something have to be to earn a 3? Using low numbers is not a bad thing if that's what you feel.
Mass market games exist.
Well, hopefully the nearly 10,000 people who blindly bought it will enjoy their purchase.
What a shitty take on crowdfunding... Grow a brain. Also Dice Tower aren't the ultimate arbiter of truth, plenty people are enjoying it for what it is
I'm one of those, and I agree!
I backed this project, and I have enjoyed my plays of it.
I did, thanks!
What do you think "blindly" means?
You mean play videos, pictures of the game, digital copy of the PDF....
You might want to check the definition of "blind".
When Ares is so amazing and improved on the original in every way, I just don’t see a need for this for me
You could visibly see Roy not agreeing with the group
Basically this feels like a game that would have been a stretch goal on a larger game project.
... and a bad useless one at that
Sooo...have you played the game?
DT was unusually harsh. The game teaches quickly, plays quickly, has nice art on the cards, fistfuls of dice, and nice thick cardboard pieces.
Get over your own negativity bias.
Tom you need to increase your rating of Unsettled which has 4 player aids and is better than this game but you also game a 5.
Dice games are not my thing so the best it would have done with a blind score was 6. To get higher it has to be amazing. After seeing this review and what the game was like I feel my total lack of interest was justified...
Typical terrible Stonghold production.
This game is so ugly looking to me. Part of it is the chonky graphic design with the borders and everything, but also the art itself just feels off. And then the dice themselves, the focus of this version of the game, were so blah looking. The gameplay itself just felt very mechanical and dull, almost forgetting to utilize the dice and just than forcing them into the system. Thank you for raging about the player aides, it's so ridiculous at this point.
I've been happy with Ares Expedition, and after the recent well earned controversy, at this point it's the last game I'll have bought from them.
what controversy? i missed that one.
Those cards do not look good. Just looks a little ugly.
Oddly, I really enjoyed the art on the cards. Compared to the original stock photos, this game's card art actually has a coherent theme and style.
I’m one of the few who doesn’t like ANY of the terraforming mars games lol
I love TFM, it's my favorite game of all time. And I deeply disdain "Ares Expedition".
I almost backed this dice game because it seemed so much better than the abysmal "Ares Expedition" (functional mars surface, milestones&awards, ...) and at first the mechanics seem interesting.
Now I'm glad that I ditched my 1€ pledge and decided to not buy it. In some parts this dice game is so bad. It's so much luck-dependent despite all the mitigation. You often just get stuck with cards that you don't have the right symbols for and it's just a pointless exercise. You can even see in the Rahdo playthrough (admittedly with a prototype) that the game doesn't work well. So bad!